[HN Gopher] Early Access to Chrome OS Flex: The Upgrade PCs and ...
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       Early Access to Chrome OS Flex: The Upgrade PCs and Macs
        
       Author : type0
       Score  : 96 points
       Date   : 2022-06-19 09:56 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cloud.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cloud.google.com)
        
       | sorenjan wrote:
       | I've had two Google Nexus phones and one Android Wear watch, and
       | all three became e-waste before their time purely because Google
       | stopped updating them. In the case of the watch Google actually
       | started sending out "updates" to their own apps that removed
       | functionality from watches with older Android wear, with no
       | possibility to update. It had less features when I threw it away
       | than it had when I bought it.
       | 
       | I'm using Android on my phone not because I want to use a Google
       | made OS, but because it's unfortunately the best option
       | available, since I have other issues with Apple. A Google OS will
       | never be the best option for my real computer, at least I
       | certainly hope so.
       | 
       | I find it slightly hypocritical that the company that
       | deliberately stops updating their own phones and computers based
       | on dates can claim to want to reduce e-waste.
       | 
       | "Each device has an Auto Update Expiration (AUE) date."
       | https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9367166?hl=en
       | 
       | "Reduce e-waste and extend the life of your existing devices by
       | transforming them with a modern OS."
       | https://chromeenterprise.google/os/chromeosflex/
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | fartcannon wrote:
         | Lineage is always good for older (and certain new) phones.
        
         | Zhenya wrote:
         | Not defending Google's actions but it worth noting that not
         | updating devices usually has to do with the SoC supplier
         | ceasing support for the chip by not shipping BSPs which support
         | new OS features. Yes google should have negotiated better
         | support but it's lack of support has to do more with inability
         | to do so within reasonable means.
         | 
         | They have projects ongoing to decouple OS functionality from
         | the base firmware (project treble and project keystone).
         | 
         | https://www.googblogs.com/tag/keystone/
         | 
         | This whole issue is probably one reason that Google went
         | through all the trouble to first develop their own support
         | silicon and then the main SoC (pixel 6).
        
           | yegle wrote:
           | This is well known for Android devices.
           | 
           | If you look for "longest supported Android devices", you
           | might find: - Nvidia Shield TV 2015: initially released with
           | Android 6 and is currently on Android 11. It uses a CPU from
           | Nvidia itself and is expected to continue receiving updates.
           | - Nexus Player: initially released with Android 5, last
           | updated to Android 8. It uses an Intel CPU and does not
           | require special binary blobs to support newer Linux kernels
           | required by newer Android versions.
        
           | car_analogy wrote:
           | > not updating devices usually has to do with the SoC
           | supplier ceasing support for the chip by not shipping BSPs
           | which support new OS features
           | 
           | I don't know what a BSP is, but why can I update linux (or
           | indeed almost any OS) on my PC without any support from the
           | motherboard vendor? What OS features need SoC support, and
           | why can the OS not live without them, when it was previously
           | able to do so?
           | 
           | This was the case _before_ smartphones. It is not an advanced
           | feature of linux, developed later, that Android failed to
           | backport. I suspect they broke it deliberately.
           | 
           | To my lay understanding, phone hardware offers approximately
           | the same features today as it did a decade ago - make calls,
           | connect to the internet, interface with the camera and GPS.
           | Occasionally a protocol might change (LTE, 4G, 5G..), but
           | maintaining support for a slightly older, still-in-use
           | protocol or hardware device, that serves the same basic
           | purpose as its new replacement, is the bare minimum - it is
           | not a radical divergence of architecture or functionality
           | that would make maintaining old versions prohibitively
           | difficult.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | > I don't know what a BSP is, but why can I update linux
             | (or indeed almost any OS) on my PC without any support from
             | the motherboard vendor? What OS features need SoC support,
             | and why can the OS not live without them, when it was
             | previously able to do so?
             | 
             | Basically, PCs have 2 things going for them:
             | 
             | First, they use standardized, enumerable interfaces. You
             | can boot an arbitrary Linux-based system and the kernel can
             | ask the PCI bus "what hardware is installed?" using the
             | same query on every machine, and get back an answer in the
             | same format. "Embedded" devices don't have that, generally
             | (ARM ServerReady _does_ add this, and _does_ create ARM-
             | based hardware where you just stick in a random distro 's
             | USB stick and boot and it works).
             | 
             | Second, Linux on PCs tends to use upstream drivers. When
             | you run ex. Ubuntu on a laptop, it talks to your ex.
             | graphics card using a driver that's in Torvald's official
             | tree. For... reasons... that I don't claim to understand
             | but that probably involve cost-cutting, Android phones rely
             | on drivers that are written by hardware vendors and then
             | abandoned without any effort to get included upstream.
             | 
             | So the result is that in many cases you _can_ boot vanilla
             | Linux on an arbitrary phone or whatever, but it 'll come up
             | with access to the CPU, RAM, and USB (because _that_ is
             | still an enumerable bus using a standard interface), but it
             | will have no idea how to query the rest of the hardware and
             | if it did it wouldn 't have any drivers to talk to that
             | hardware with.
             | 
             | Edit: I should mention, a BSP is the ... "solution" that
             | vendors use to pretend this whole thing is workable. It
             | stands for board support package, which is a giant blob of
             | source code that includes at minimum a copy of Linux with
             | all their delightfully buggy custom drivers included and
             | all the necessary hardware devices hard-coded so the system
             | can find the hardware when it boots. And by find, of
             | course, I mean "blindly assume it's there". On a good day
             | this data is encoded in a device tree, which is a file
             | format for "here's what hardware is in this system and how
             | to talk to it (ports, memory addresses, whatever) ".
        
           | my123 wrote:
           | For Chrome OS not the problem a lot of the time, they drop
           | support for devices using commodity SoCs that are still
           | supported elsewhere... it's a quite hardcoded expiry date.
           | 
           | And they don't even drop support for all machines using a
           | given SoC at the same time.
           | 
           | For Chrome OS updates are wholly owned by Google too.
        
             | Zhenya wrote:
             | I am more knowledgeable about the arm / android world.
             | 
             | I do wonder if for the chrome os world there are SoC+BSP vs
             | ChromeOS feature requirements that cause this lack of
             | ability to support (e.g. trust zone etc)
        
               | my123 wrote:
               | > (e.g. trust zone etc)
               | 
               | For chromeOS devices, the boot firmware (incl TZ) is
               | owned by Google.
        
           | int_19h wrote:
           | > develop their own support silicon and then the main SoC
           | 
           | Their Pixels don't exactly enjoy long support lifecycles,
           | either.
        
             | Zhenya wrote:
             | Pixels use Qualcomm SoCs up through pixel 5
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | nixcraft wrote:
       | I wonder if my older "Samsung Chromebook 2 (2014)" model will
       | work with this? Google removed support for that model a long time
       | ago.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | ChromeOS Flex is for amd64 chips as far as I can tell and your
         | Chromebook actually runs on an ARM chip, so I doubt it'll work
         | (for now, at least). You never know, maybe they'll release an
         | ARM version in the future, but I sort of doubt it.
        
           | roseway4 wrote:
           | It would be fun, and possibly quite useful, to run Flex on
           | the Raspberry Pi.
        
         | wffurr wrote:
         | I wish they'd make Flex available to out of date Chromebooks.
         | You lose secure boot, but you could still get updated Chrome
         | versions.
        
         | sboomer wrote:
         | It may work if any of the mainstream Linux distros run on your
         | pc.
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | Is there a community of "ChromeOS distros" like how LineageOS
         | does with open source Android for older phones?
         | 
         | My only experience trying to build ChromeOS was for "Container-
         | Optimized OS" which doesn't have nearly the same "random binary
         | blobs" problem as trying to build for a piece of consumer
         | hardware
        
           | wffurr wrote:
           | There's FydeOS (dunno much about it other than it came up in
           | a search for "CloudReady ARM", CloudReady being the name of
           | ChromeOS Flex prior to acquisition) or build-it-yourself
           | ChromiumOS.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | For x86 chromebooks there's https://mrchromebox.tech/ to
           | replace the firmware with a normal UEFI-booting coreboot, and
           | then you just install whatever you want on it because now
           | it's basically a normal PC.
           | 
           | For ARM chromebooks I'm only aware of
           | https://archlinuxarm.org/ and that's still pretty patchy; I
           | hope that something comes together (or that it already exists
           | and I just haven't found it yet).
        
           | LordDragonfang wrote:
           | The ChromeOS equivalent of LineageOS is usually just
           | installing a normal linux desktop distro, sometimes one
           | that's been been tweaked to have drivers specific to
           | chromebook hardware like GalliumOS (https://galliumos.org/)
        
       | jeroenhd wrote:
       | I wanted to try this in a VM but the install image seems to lack
       | decent drivers for libvirt/kvm/virt-manager/whatever caused
       | issues. The cursor was invisible, the system was slow, and the
       | system didn't boot after I finally got it to install.
       | 
       | This may say nothing about ChromeOS Flex's actual performance on
       | real hardware, but open source virtualisation tech seems like an
       | obvious point to start at when you're developing an OS for
       | general purpose use.
       | 
       | Hopefully support will be better in time, this could be an
       | excellent balance between Windows 11 growing ever more resource
       | hungry and Linux being difficult to maintain by novices.
        
       | raggi wrote:
       | I was really excited about Flex when I first heard about it. I
       | then heard it didn't have Widevine or Android or Linux features.
       | I don't know if that changed, but I wouldn't be surprised if not.
       | If it did ship those it would be a great distro for a lot of
       | people.
        
         | andrewmutz wrote:
         | > Linux features
         | 
         | Not sure what you are referring to, but I am writing this post
         | from Chrome OS flex and the linux features work perfectly.
        
           | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
           | What are the "Linux features" exactly? Can you install
           | packages? What distro or packaging format are they based off?
        
             | andrewmutz wrote:
             | It's debian. Yes you can install packages. You get a built
             | in terminal running bash but you can install a terminal
             | program or she'll just fine.
             | 
             | Linux app support is extremely good. Everything works with
             | the window manager quite well. Even steam is available for
             | games. Only limits I've hit are when interacting with
             | hardware devices, but I havent done it enough to tell you
             | exactly what the limits are
        
               | elkos wrote:
               | can you install Firefox on it?
        
               | andrewmutz wrote:
               | Yes
        
             | LordDragonfang wrote:
             | Assuming it's the same as normal ChromeOS, it's a
             | containerized full linux shell that will run most GUI apps
             | in the native window manager. It defaults to Debian, so
             | uses standard apt, but you can make a container with any
             | distro if you have the know-how.
        
         | Wowfunhappy wrote:
         | > I then heard it didn't have Widevine
         | 
         | That would strike me as a bit strange? You can get Widevine in
         | open source versions of Chromium just by copying some files,
         | e.g. https://ungoogled-software.github.io/ungoogled-chromium-
         | wiki... Why lock it out of Chrome OS Flex?
         | 
         | (Not saying Google didn't do it anyway, just that I find it
         | odd.)
         | 
         | Edit: Although in a way, I'd welcome more Widevine-incapable
         | machines as a disincentive to websites requiring Widevine.
        
       | dagmx wrote:
       | Title on HN seems cut off. Missing "have been waiting for" as of
       | right now
        
         | DoctorOW wrote:
         | Personally I would cut off more. "Early access to Chrome OS
         | Flex" is the factual statement about the topic of the post and
         | "The upgrade PCs and Macs have been waiting for" isn't
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | Agreed. The latter half is marketing speak and doesn't add
           | much of value in providing information
        
       | Wowfunhappy wrote:
       | Meanwhile, the Chromebooks we use at an after-school program
       | where I teach are no longer receiving security updates. I'm not
       | sure how old the machines are, but they're quite speedy compared
       | to other Chromebooks I've used, and perfectly capable of browsing
       | the modern web.
       | 
       | I love the idea of Chrome OS Flex, but I wish Google extended the
       | same support to hardware _designed_ for Chrome OS...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | car_analogy wrote:
         | Meanwhile 20 year old machines running linux still get updates.
         | How is it that software support became tied to specific
         | hardware? This used to be a solved problem, but with a lot of
         | effort and ingenuity, a few corporations un-solved it, first
         | for smartphones, tablets, and now for whatever Chromebooks
         | count as.
        
           | realce wrote:
           | I feel like "unsolving" problems is becoming the only way to
           | make a good buck in IT anymore.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | Nobody makes money off of a 20 year old machine. This is
           | planned obsolescence to maintain demand.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | boddhi wrote:
         | I suspect Google will eventually use Chrome OS Flex as a
         | subscription service to provide extended Hardware/Software
         | support for Education and Enterprise. They came up with Chrome
         | OS Flex after buying Neverware in 2020, which already provided
         | Chrome OS support for Education and Enterprise.
        
           | karmakaze wrote:
           | Yeah, as I was reading the page I was wonder who this is
           | really for, the links in the last paragraph were a tip-off.
           | 
           | > Visit the Chrome OS Flex _website_ to learn more, get
           | installation instructions, and see certified devices.
           | Additionally, if you want to combine modern computing with
           | cloud-first management, you can _start a free trial_ of
           | Chrome Enterprise Upgrade to secure and manage your Chrome OS
           | Flex devices.
           | 
           | The free trial link says:
           | 
           | > Chrome Enterprise Upgrade provides a simple and secure way
           | to manage your Chrome OS devices in the admin console.
           | 
           | > Sign up for a free 30-day trial of the Chrome Enterprise
           | Upgrade and enroll up to 50 existing Chromebooks in your
           | organization.
        
       | shadowgovt wrote:
       | For those maintaining a machine for older relatives: I found that
       | switching them to Chrome OS has really taken the burden off me as
       | their sole tech support. No installable applications means no
       | vector for adware to convince them to fall into a cycle of
       | installing other adware until the machine is bloated beyond
       | functionality.
        
       | leejoramo wrote:
       | Love how Google is advocating this for cost savings and
       | sustainability.
       | 
       | If only my School District could use Chrome OS Flex to get some
       | more life out of the fleet 4 year old Chromebook's that can no
       | longer get updates
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Replacing an EOL version of Chrome OS with a different version
         | of Chrome OS makes no sense.
        
           | rufugee wrote:
           | I think their point is that Google is forcing perfectly good
           | hardware into obsolescence unnecessarily.
        
             | wmf wrote:
             | Exactly. It makes no sense that Chrome OS gets 6 years of
             | updates but Chrome OS Flex gets 10+ years.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | Whoosh.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | It's very possible those chromebooks were underpowered to begin
         | with. At some point the hardware really is dead.
        
       | andrewmutz wrote:
       | I am writing this comment on Chrome OS Flex and can not say
       | enough good things about Chrome OS Flex. I installed it on my
       | wife's old macbook air (~2013) and it brought new life to a
       | machine that we had written off as useless.
       | 
       | The OS does a great job of exactly two things: web browsing and
       | linux stuff. It won't do more than that, but if that's all you
       | need it is great.
       | 
       | I honestly think you could make some decent cash just by buying 9
       | year old laptops off the internet, installing chrome OS flex, and
       | selling them as perfectly usable chromebooks.
       | 
       | Any questions about what the OS can do? AMA
        
         | iainmerrick wrote:
         | How well does the trackpad work?
         | 
         | Mac trackpads are terrific, and I don't know if that's down to
         | the hardware, firmware or software -- I assume a combination of
         | all three.
        
         | dijit wrote:
         | Last time I ran chromeOS it was those unofficial builds by a
         | guy called "Lex", needless to say it was a long time ago.
         | 
         | Back then it wasn't possible to run anything other than Chrome
         | itself outside of dev mode, but I've seen people
         | running/installing VSCode on chromeOS (not in the web browser).
         | Is that feasible?
         | 
         | At the same time as I was seeing this, it appeared that the OS
         | actually has a windowing system now, so you can move windows
         | around and have one on top of the other, is that the case? Any
         | quirks with that?
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | Microsoft has a whole blog post about VSCode on Chromebooks
           | in their Crostini Linux environment. Which is just... gah:
           | 
           | https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2020/12/03/chromebook-
           | ge...
           | 
           | I mean, the fact that it can be done is neat, but on most
           | entry-level Chromebooks it will be a memory hog, and you
           | might be better served with vim or emacs (one or both of
           | which should be learned to functional competence levels by
           | every programmer), because then you'd have more room for
           | running stuff.
        
             | alexnewman wrote:
             | The days of underpowered chromebooks is gone.
        
               | doubled112 wrote:
               | They're still pretty brutal.
               | 
               | The BestBuy around the corner from me, for example, is
               | selling an Asus Chromebook with a Celeron N3350/4GB
               | RAM/64GB eMMC and 15.6" 720p screen for $400 CAD.
               | 
               | Is this not underpowered? Sure there are other options,
               | but to most people the appeal was the low cost. For $799,
               | I'd just buy a PC.
        
               | alexnewman wrote:
               | my 4 core top of the line intel 10th gen i7 with 16GB of
               | ram i got for 750$ begs to differ
        
               | bitwize wrote:
               | A number of models with 4 GiB RAM are still floating
               | around out there; I consider that underpowered if you are
               | going to be running a browser + heavyweight apps (Visual
               | Studio Code is heavyweight). For Windows 1x, 4 GiB is
               | barely usable; ChromeOS does better but today's memory-
               | hungry apps can take that advantage away.
        
           | andrewmutz wrote:
           | By default, there is only web browsers and no Linux. Which is
           | nice because by default there can be no malware and it's a
           | good OS for non technical users.
           | 
           | But with one click it installs and makes available Linux. It
           | appears to the user as a debain variant. You can install
           | anything and when you run apps they seamlessly work with the
           | window manager. I've used VScode for software development and
           | it works great. Steam is even available for games, but I
           | haven't tried it.
           | 
           | Window manager is the right balance of powerful and simple.
           | Great at manipulating web browser windows (has virtual
           | desktops if you want them), but works fine interacting with
           | Linux apps as well.
        
             | fartcannon wrote:
             | What makes you think websites can't give you malware for
             | your Chromebook?
             | 
             | That's like the number one way to get it.
        
               | andrewmutz wrote:
               | What are you referring to? Chrome extensions?
        
               | fartcannon wrote:
               | I'm referring to the fact that it's connected to the
               | internet.
        
             | boddhi wrote:
             | What's also great is you can install apps through Flatpak
             | and Chrome OS Flex will recognize it and you can pin it to
             | your shelf. There's a fork of VSCode called VSCodium
             | through Flatpak, which doesn't send telemetry to Microsoft.
             | I've also installed Steam, Discord, Libreoffice in Flatpak
             | without any issues.
        
             | 5d8767c68926 wrote:
             | Is it Google in name only or does it send telemetry of my
             | every click to the mother ship? Would be interested in
             | trying it as a VSCode remote development + minimal Linux
             | utilities platform.
        
               | andrewmutz wrote:
               | I don't know what sort of telemetry exists. It is easy to
               | try out. From my memory you can use the install USB just
               | as a normal boot drive without installing. So you can go
               | try it out and see if you like it before you install it
        
         | kybernetyk wrote:
         | Is there a terminal emulator included? What shell is installed
         | by default?
        
           | boddhi wrote:
           | ChromeOS has their own terminal app. It installs BASH by
           | default and the linux distro is Debian.
        
         | ASpaceCowboi wrote:
         | you influenced me to install it on my 2011 macbook pro! Thank
         | you
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | What does it do better than simply installing any decent linux
         | distro?
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | The difference between ChromeOS and any Linux distro is like
           | night and day. The software updates are automatic,
           | unobtrusive, and almost instantaneous. Multitouch input stack
           | actually works. You can attach and detach displays as you
           | like without anything weird happening. And all the binaries
           | are highly optimized with profile guidance and link-time
           | optimization.
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | > The software updates are automatic, unobtrusive, and
             | almost instantaneous. Multitouch input stack actually
             | works. You can attach and detach displays as you like
             | without anything weird happening.
             | 
             | I don't know about that multitouch thing and what it
             | provides (is it similar to using 2 fingers to scroll down),
             | I never have any weird thing happening when I attach/detach
             | display and I would describe my software update as
             | automatic, unobtrusive and fast on my fedora laptops.
             | 
             | No idea what "binaries highly optimized with profile
             | guidance and link-time optimization" are though.
        
               | carlhjerpe wrote:
               | > No idea what "binaries highly optimized with profile
               | guidance and link-time optimization" are though.
               | 
               | PGO is a thing where you record runtime information about
               | the program to optimize better later.
               | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/13881292/
        
           | alexnewman wrote:
           | The interaction between xwindows and native chrome is
           | sickkkk!
        
           | andrewmutz wrote:
           | The UX is extremely easy to use. For most users, you're just
           | using web browsers and the window manager for chrome os is
           | designed for just manipulating browser windows.
           | 
           | Unless you install Linux stuff (most users don't) you can't
           | download any software. This means no malware is possible.
           | 
           | It guides you to store everything in the cloud, which allows
           | you to treat your workstations as cattle rather than pets.
        
             | sorenjan wrote:
             | Can you install Firefox?
        
               | mattlondon wrote:
               | Yes. You can also install vscode etc. Seamlessly
               | integrated into the UI - cannot tell the difference
               | between "native" ChromeOS apps and e.g. Firefox etc.
               | 
               | At least on "normal" Chromebooks anyway you can - I have
               | no direct experience or knowledge of flex.
        
               | alexnewman wrote:
               | It's a full fledged Debian
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | Doesn't seem so extraordinary then. I would treat the last
             | point as a con more than a pro though.
        
               | mbreese wrote:
               | It's not supposed to be extraordinary. It's supposed to
               | be simple and cheap and robust and working. Storing data
               | in the cloud is part of that contract -- if something
               | happens to your computer (physical damage), you can get
               | up and working very quickly with a new one. As in -- you
               | buy a new computer, sign in, and you're done.
               | 
               | It's not a set of trade offs that work for everyone, but
               | it works well for many environments. I would have loved
               | these back I the day when I had to maintain Windows
               | clients for people to just turn around and use RDP to
               | connect to a terminal server. Having a light weight
               | client (that was secure) would have made that scenario
               | much nicer.
        
           | derefr wrote:
           | Be left with your grandmother for 10 years without needing
           | any kind of maintenance or repair.
        
         | Crontab wrote:
         | I am typing this on a mid-2013 Macbook Air and it doesn't feel
         | useless to me - although I maxed out the RAM to 8GB when I
         | ordered it.
        
         | Angostura wrote:
         | That's odd. My wife is still using a mid-2013 MacBook Air as a
         | daily driver - using MacOS, and it's fine or browsing, Office,
         | e-mail etc etc. In what way was yours 'useless'?
        
         | raydiatian wrote:
         | Why do you smell like a paid shill
        
       | merwanedr wrote:
       | Ha, for a minute I thought Google _actually_ built a Cloud-native
       | OS. Maybe I 'm wrong, but I don't really see the use-case for
       | this. Sounds like it could be an orchestration solution for
       | schools or bootcamps at best. What's incredible about real cloud-
       | native operating systems is that "OS" is merely an acronym. The
       | reality is that companies like Mighty are working on cloud-native
       | computers, where even hardware upgradability is handled without
       | you having to pay attention.
       | 
       | The endgame is that you don't have upgrade your laptop anymore,
       | not just install apps fast.
        
         | csouza-f wrote:
         | Maybe I had the same perception as you. Seems like, removing
         | the marketing thing of the Google's website, this is just the
         | Chrome OS but with support for devices that are not designed
         | for run Chrome OS, that's why "Flex" appended in the name. This
         | is super nice, by the way.
         | 
         | My first thought, not knowing very much about Chrome OS
         | history, was that the OS is just a ground to run the system
         | that will connect with some machine in the cloud that will do
         | all complicated-processing things and you'll just visualize
         | that, like a VNC. But, seems not like it.
        
         | dijit wrote:
         | What would a cloud native OS look like to you?
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | > for a minute I thought Google actually built a Cloud-native
         | OS
         | 
         | I'm curious how you would define a cloud-native OS that doesn't
         | include Chrome OS.
         | 
         | > The endgame is that you don't have upgrade your laptop
         | anymore, not just install apps fast.
         | 
         | How are Chromebooks not already this? The whole thing is just a
         | way to run a browser that connects to the real workloads in the
         | cloud, and hardware is only obsolete when it stops getting
         | updates (which is _very_ "cloud native" behavior - the device
         | lives and dies at the will of some remote company that manages
         | it for you).
        
       | fartcannon wrote:
       | Schools should be using Linux (or a BSD) exclusively. And
       | preferably, open format alternatives to anything locked down.
       | Proprietary software is fine if the data is easily exported to
       | another format.
       | 
       | Transforming a perfectly good Linux machine into a Google data
       | pipeline is a horrible thing to do to children.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | I'd love to see you maintain 800 linux laptops kept in the
         | hands of kids.
         | 
         | "What do you mean you recompiled ALSA and now you can't join
         | Zoom little Timmy? Did you try invoking modprobe again?"
        
           | fartcannon wrote:
           | "Timmy, you recompiled alsa? That's kind of impressive. I'm
           | going to give you some more challenging work to try and help
           | develop your computer skills. We sure are lucky that we have
           | open computers that let you do things besides consume YouTube
           | and be spied on."
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
        
           | zizee wrote:
           | If it is anything like my kids school, the maintenance would
           | be exactly the same regardless of the OS. The students are
           | instructed to keep everything in their synced drive, and they
           | reimage machines at the drop of a hat.
        
       | moondev wrote:
       | If Chrome OS Flex supported running android apps and google play
       | like upstream it would be a game changer.
        
       | jpalomaki wrote:
       | Is there more detailed information about supported hardware?
       | 
       | I'm especially interested if this supports proper sleep on
       | Intel/Lenovo hardware (instant on, not draining battery too
       | quickly).
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | With Google's track record for discontinuing products, would you
       | commit to moving your school or business to this OS?
       | 
       | Yes, schools and businesses often replace technology on a
       | schedule, but standardizing on an OS is a longer-term decision
       | than desktop replacement.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | e-clinton wrote:
         | Agreed. This is def good for the industry as it'll push
         | Microsoft to be more competitive
        
         | minerva23 wrote:
         | You shouldn't be getting downvoted for that. It's a fair
         | question for those educated in Google's history of cancelling
         | products and uneducated in Chrome OS.
         | 
         | A lot of people are unaware that Google is deeply committed in
         | the OS space. Apart from Android, which they saw/see as an
         | existential need for their business, Chrome OS fills a similar
         | space on the desktop (especially as MS ramps up their
         | anticompetitive efforts with their own browser again).
         | 
         | Google also uses a chromium build internally in GCP/GKE, so the
         | OS is being maintained for servers as well.
         | 
         | Lastly, Chrome OS has been around for a long time and is based
         | off an open source project with passionate maintainers.
        
           | Closi wrote:
           | Lol at the comment around Microsoft's "anti-competitive
           | efforts" which were making IE a core part of Windows, in a
           | thread about Chrome OS which makes Chrome core to the OS, and
           | in a world where Chrome has the dominant market share and is
           | solidifying it by building it into their products.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | I'm not sure that those are really the same; Google already
             | had Chrome and then made an OS to run it, while MS had OS
             | dominance and used that to force everyone to have IE. The
             | analog would be if Google made Chrome automatically add a
             | ChromeOS dual-boot option to every Windows PC it was
             | installed on.
        
       | sboomer wrote:
       | I would have loved to have this as my secondary os. It's shame
       | that one cannot multi boot this. I'm looking for a way to multi
       | boot this.
        
       | LoveMortuus wrote:
       | Sorry if this is a stupid question, but what does "cloud first"
       | mean in the context of an operating system, does it mean that you
       | need to always be connected to the internet to use it, like can
       | you use the computer offline?
        
         | fartcannon wrote:
         | It means you're renting it and they're using your data for
         | profit.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | It uses Google Drive (or similar) to store all your files.
         | There is a local drive used for caching so you can work offline
         | entirely but the idea is that the workstation is "cattle" - you
         | can throw it into a shredder, log into a new chromebook and
         | have all your apps/files/etc installed and ready to go.
         | 
         | The selling point for these are light computer users.
        
           | LoveMortuus wrote:
           | That sounds pretty cool, having access to all of your file
           | from any computer that you login. But would guess that you'd
           | have to pay quite a lot for such a luxury especially if you
           | store more then just text files and such.
           | 
           | Thanks for the explanation! ^o^
        
       | kennywinker wrote:
       | In the 1990s Microsoft was heavily criticized, and litigated
       | against, for the deep integration of internet explorer with
       | windows, and their monopoly on operating systems and web
       | browsing. Stunning to think that people are willingly installing
       | chrome the browsers, and chrome the os in 2022.
        
         | LoveMortuus wrote:
         | It is actually possible to install non-chrome browsers on
         | ChromeOS either through the App store or just via the console.
         | 
         | But I totally understand your point and the options I've listed
         | aren't either user friendly or straight up require you to be
         | able to use a console.
        
           | kennywinker wrote:
           | It was always possible to install netscape navigator over top
           | of windows. The crux of the issue was that it was
           | "unreasonably difficult".
        
         | shadowgovt wrote:
         | As history has unfolded, it seems to have become increasingly
         | clear that the antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft in the 90s
         | was ill-conceived. At the very least, it doesn't appear to have
         | been based upon any underlying philosophy of monopoly that
         | shows any consistency, for the very reasons you've indicated.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | timnetworks wrote:
       | I don't want to downvote the post, just the subject, and I wonder
       | if it should have been 'downgrade' instead.
        
       | alexnewman wrote:
       | I love my new flex machines. My favorite Linux distro is that VM.
       | Wish it had android going
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | Does Flex not have that android-on-chromebook feature?
        
       | PascLeRasc wrote:
       | This looks really great. Here's the installation guide that they
       | make you put in an email to get to:
       | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11552529
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | You don't actually need to provide an email address if you have
         | Google Chrome installed.
         | 
         | You can use the Chromebook recovery tool (a browser extension)
         | to write an installer image to a flash drive. I'm pretty sure
         | you need 8GB of space or more. Others have intercepted and
         | extracted the downloaded image, but I never cared enough to use
         | that approach.
         | 
         | This process doesn't work with all Chromium derived browsers,
         | though, probably because they added extra permissions to the
         | extension because I wouldn't normally want a browser extension
         | to have raw disk access.
         | 
         | https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chromebook-recover...
        
       | [deleted]
        
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