[HN Gopher] Mimic Systems Spartan: Apple II emulator for the C-64
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       Mimic Systems Spartan: Apple II emulator for the C-64
        
       Author : ethanpil
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2022-06-14 16:09 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dfarq.homeip.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dfarq.homeip.net)
        
       | LocalH wrote:
       | Not really an "emulator". It bolted on an entire Apple II-
       | compatible system. Much like some of the earlier compatibility
       | products (both the Amiga and Mac had expansions that added a
       | whole-ass PC on the side, the Amiga product was an official
       | Commodore one while the Mac addon was third-party).
        
         | ChainOfFools wrote:
         | ah the MacCharlie and the Amiga Sidecar, both horrendously
         | overpriced for their respective markets. Though the Amiga
         | peripheral arguably did a much better job owing to the host
         | system's ability to both display color as well as multitask
         | natively, so one could use both environments simultaneously. I
         | believe even possible to exchange data between the two while
         | both were rinning, due to the use of dual-port RAM on the
         | Sidecar and some sort of simple driver running on both sides
         | handled mutexes, locks and such.
        
       | kwertyoowiyop wrote:
       | > The technology world moved much more slowly then than it does
       | now.
       | 
       | Respectfully disagree.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | I feel it is slower now.
         | 
         | 1981 IBM PC - turn key useful but expensive and clunky
         | 
         | 1982 Commodore 64 - cheap, good gfx + sound
         | 
         | 1985 Amiga - you could drop someone from today (2022) on an
         | Amiga and they could still find their way around the UI and
         | write a document, save it, print it, use the calculator,
         | whatever. (Before you start comparing with MacOS _v1_ and
         | Windows _v1_ , yes, true, but Windows 1 has clunky UI and
         | neither MacOS nor Windows could execute more than program at a
         | time. Only Amiga had that.)
         | 
         | So, within 4 years we went from the "Personal Computer"
         | becoming a real actual thing with the PC, to having basically
         | the same desktop metaphor we still use today, with the Amiga.
         | That's incredible development speed.
         | 
         | The only thing I have seen which was just as fast, was the
         | iPhone driving adoption of touch interfaces and mobile
         | Internet. This also drove the concept of an "app" as something
         | you pick and choose and expect to be there for major brands and
         | services.
         | 
         | It's hard to say if the "PC" (I mean that loosely) or the
         | iPhone/touch/mobile trifecta had a greater impact.
         | 
         | On the one hand, almost "everyone" are or will soon have a
         | smartphone, so that has a _huge_ impact.
         | 
         | On the other hand, while "PC" adoption was not ubiquitous, it
         | drove major changes in mass culture (printing, music, video)
         | and industry and economy. Not everyone had a computer, but
         | everyone was aware of them and were impacted by them in ways
         | large and small.
        
           | bluedino wrote:
           | > So, within 4 years we went from the "Personal Computer"
           | becoming a real actual thing with the PC, to having basically
           | the same desktop metaphor we still use today, with the Amiga.
           | That's incredible development speed.
           | 
           | Except in 1984 we had the Macintosh, and a year before that
           | we had the Apple Lisa. So only 2 years. Even faster.
        
             | LocalH wrote:
             | The Amiga had proper preemptive multitasking (what I would
             | consider a key part of today's "desktop metaphor"), long
             | before the Mac.
        
             | actionfromafar wrote:
             | _(Before you start comparing with MacOS v1 and Windows v1,
             | yes, true, but Windows 1 has clunky UI and neither MacOS
             | nor Windows could execute more than program at a time. Only
             | Amiga had that.)_
             | 
             | I picked my goal posts arbitrarily, but an Amiga could
             | basically run all software we have today, if the CPU was
             | faster. Stream music + download something + editing a text,
             | for instance. The Mac OS could only have done this a little
             | bit later.
             | 
             | But sure, yes, the UI of the Mac was incredible, only 2
             | years after IBM PC.
        
           | usrn wrote:
           | I for one have gotten rid of my smartphone. Where the PC
           | extended your mind smartphones are only tools for
           | corporations to manipulate you.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | flenserboy wrote:
         | What makes it seem that it moved much more slowly -- look how
         | long 8-bit machines held on -- was just how much it cost to get
         | into a system. Platforms had _long_ lives then because people
         | were not keen on seeing their investments disappear out from
         | under them. Note that an Apple  //c cost about $1300 in 1984,
         | the equivalent of $3600 or so today. You're going to want to
         | see just how long you can keep that going even though
         | technology improvements are flying by outside your door, and
         | they really were doing that back in the day. There were
         | multiple, barely-interacting tech markets running concurrently.
        
       | ethanpil wrote:
       | Here is an interesting review of the product:
       | 
       | http://mikenaberezny.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/spartan-...
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | > The Mimic Systems Spartan was an elusive bit of C-64 hardware
       | that made it Apple II+ compatible.
       | 
       | Interesting... so, it was an emulator that required special
       | hardware. I wonder if it allows the use of a z-80 card. If so the
       | C-64 would be able to run CP/M making it a very versatile system.
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | In case you don't know about it,
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_128:
         | 
         |  _The C128 is a significantly expanded successor to the C64,
         | with nearly full compatibility. The newer machine has 128 KB of
         | RAM in two 64 KB banks, and an 80-column color video output. It
         | has a redesigned case and keyboard. Also included is a Zilog
         | Z80 CPU which allows the C128 to run CP /M, as an alternative
         | to the usual Commodore BASIC environment. The presence of the
         | Z80 and the huge CP/M software library it brings, coupled with
         | the C64's software library, gave the C128 one of the broadest
         | ranges of available software among its competitors.
         | 
         | [...]
         | 
         | The C128 runs CP/M noticeably slower than most dedicated CP/M
         | systems, as the Z80 processor runs at an effective speed of
         | only 2 MHz_
        
         | jim_lawless wrote:
         | Commodore sold a version of CP/M (2.2) with a Z-80 processor in
         | a cartridge for the C-64. Due to slow 1541 disk drive speed,
         | non-CP/M disk format, and a 40-column display, it was a slow
         | and clumsy version of CP/M.
         | 
         | As someone else posted, the C-128 and 1571 disk drive had much
         | better CP/M support. The 128 had a built-in Z-80 and 80-column
         | capability. The 1571 could read/write CP/M format (and MS-DOS
         | format for that matter) disks.
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-17 23:02 UTC)