[HN Gopher] Musk, Tesla, SpaceX Are Sued for Alleged Dogecoin Py...
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Musk, Tesla, SpaceX Are Sued for Alleged Dogecoin Pyramid Scheme
Author : jc_811
Score : 65 points
Date : 2022-06-16 16:28 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
| mountainriver wrote:
| Only in America
|
| "I lost money because of dumb investments, I'm going to sue"
| kevingadd wrote:
| Investor protections are not unique to the United States, and
| investments are heavily regulated because of how easy it is for
| regular laymen to get duped
| bko wrote:
| > Johnson is seeking to represent a class of people who have lost
| money trading in Dogecoin since April 2019. He is asking for $86
| billion in damages, plus triple damages of $172 billion, as well
| as an order blocking Musk and the companies from promoting
| Dogecoin, and declaring that Dogecoin trading constitutes
| gambling under US and New York law.
|
| I am not a lawyer, but don't you have to prove that you actually
| incurred those damages? Was this dude long $100 billion on Doge?
| cududa wrote:
| "Seeking to represent a class" - he can bring the case as a
| class action lawsuit but a) needs to get others to join his
| class then b) if the judge accepts it, other defendants can
| jockey for being the one representing the case. Different
| lawyers will make different arguments why they should get the
| case then the judge chooses which plaintiff and lawyers get the
| class action.
|
| So that's what "seeking to represent a class" means. He's not
| seeking that amount for himself, but rather to distribute to
| everyone who bought dogs based on Musk's tweeting
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| Johnson's greed and entitlement ($172 billion?) are remarkable.
| IYasha wrote:
| I hoped the title would continue like "for making autopilot
| disable itself one second before car crash".
|
| So "they" waited some time to deliver a massive blow to crypto
| market - bitcoin hits last year minimum, other cryptos are
| shaking, now dogecoin is going to suffer. Looks pretty deliberate
| to me...
| gitfan86 wrote:
| Ironically, Elon is one of the few famous business people that
| regularly points out that all money is worthless, and that the
| real economy is goods and services not entries in a database.
| sdfhdhjdw3 wrote:
| Ironically, or shall we say dishonestly, he follows up on that
| by manipulating the market for his benefit.
| phatfish wrote:
| Exactly the sort of thing I would expect the (paper?) richest
| person in the world to say. Obviously money is worthless to you
| when you have more than you could ever need.
| tromp wrote:
| > "Defendants falsely and deceptively claim that Dogecoin is a
| legitimate investment when it has no value at all," Johnson said
| in his complaint,
|
| What makes a cryptocurrency a "legitimate investment" ? It
| clearly is a risky and highly speculative investment, but it's
| not clear to me what separates legitimate ones from illegitimate
| ones. Johnson's claim that Dogecoin has no value at all seems
| rather bogus, as it still trades at well over 1 cent per coin (we
| can agree it has no "inherent value").
| kayamon wrote:
| I suppose it depends if there's someone manipulating it. A coin
| like Bitcoin is immune to internal manipulation -- there's one
| Bitcoin mined every ten minutes, and no one can change that, no
| matter how much money they have.
|
| Satoshi proved that a blockchain is only secure if it's the
| blockchain with the longest accumulated proof-of-work record.
| Dogecoin's blockchain is shorter, and they can't win a race
| where the other players are already ahead. Miners will
| generally only mine the blockchain with the most value, thus
| the market for one mining the leading crypto squeezes out the
| market for mining all the others. Miners must vote with their
| electricity as to which blockchain to support. No other
| blockchain can ever maintain its stability as long as Bitcoin
| exists.
|
| The game theory that backs Bitcoin also proves that all other
| cryptocurrencies cannot work in the long term.
| IYasha wrote:
| >> A coin like Bitcoin is immune to internal manipulation
|
| Even if NSA..I mean, "Satoshi" was to do something with his
| 1.1M BTC?
| randomhodler84 wrote:
| Why would spending some old coinbase tx's from a decade+
| ago have any impact on core parameters of the protocol?
| Whomever is spending coins has no impact on coin emission.
| I highly doubt they could even bribe the Protocol
| maintainers.
| Schroedingersat wrote:
| > Satoshi proved that a blockchain is only secure if it's the
| blockchain with the longest accumulated proof-of-work record.
|
| This statement is correct, but you appear to be fundamentally
| misunderstanding it. The category being considered is that of
| blockchains making incompatible claims about the same truth.
|
| Events on the dogecoin blockchain are making no claims about
| the bitcoin blockchain and vice versa, so this statement is
| irrelevant. Similarly it is irrelevant between any two
| distinct tokens even if they originate as forks of another
| token. You could download the BTC blockchain, take it to a
| distant planet and transact with it using only local compute
| just fine. It's just that -- were you to re-establish contact
| with earth -- omicron-persei-eight-BTC and earth-BTC would
| now be different tokens. So long as some subset of the
| population agreed to use the former it would be a valid token
| and earthlings could transact on your blockchain with their
| wallets (at the balance they had when you left), it just
| wouldn't be earth-BTC
| kayamon wrote:
| As long as communication can occur between the two
| populations (FTL will present its own problems in years to
| come), they will trade using the best money available and
| will not mine the lesser blockchain.
|
| All non-leading blockchains will ultimately fail.
|
| Tick tock next block.
| tromp wrote:
| > Dogecoin's blockchain is shorter
|
| Not only is blockchain length immaterial to its relevancy,
| but Dogecoin's chain is in fact longer, as its block interval
| is only 1 minute, so it is asymptotically 10 times longer
| than Bitcoin.
|
| > there's one Bitcoin mined every ten minutes
|
| You mean one block (containing an subsidy starting at 50
| Bitcoin that's halved every 4 years).
|
| > Miners will generally only mine the blockchain with the
| most value
|
| Wrong; SHA256 miners will mine the most profitable SHA256
| chain, such as Bitcoin. Scrypt miners have totally different
| ASICs and will mine the most profitable scrypt chain.
|
| > No other blockchain can ever maintain its stability as long
| as Bitcoin exists. The game theory that backs Bitcoin also
| proves that all other cryptocurrencies cannot work in the
| long term.
|
| The theory behind Bitcoin long term security is rather shaky
| in fact, requiring a constant backlog of high-fee paying
| transactions once its block subsidy becomes insignificant.
| Chains with a tail emission face no such issues.
| horsawlarway wrote:
| I'd say when the original creator of the "currency" defines it
| as a joke, and the coin is configured so that ~14.5 million new
| coins are minted every day... It's safe to consider it
| illegitimate as an investment.
|
| At a minimum, it certainly can't be considered a valid value
| store, since the amount of currency in circulation inflates at
| an incredible pace, and without regard to the current value.
| tromp wrote:
| I strongly disagree. First of all, whether it's 14.5 coins
| per day or 14,500 or 14.5M or 14.5B doesn't matter at all,
| since it's just arbitrary scaling (just like how each bitcoin
| is really 100B satoshi). Secondly, a fixed block subsidy is
| an entirely reasonable emission schedule, with yearly supply
| inflation going down at a steady rate, taking 2 decades to
| drop down to 5% (better than fiat this year), and taking 5
| decades to be the 2% that fiat aims for.
|
| In fact, there's one serious cryptocurrency that chose
| exactly such an emission, averaging one coin per second
| forever. It's the only coin that doesn't have the current
| generation hog the majority of (soft [1]) total supply...
|
| [1] https://john-tromp.medium.com/a-case-for-using-soft-
| total-su...
| randomhodler84 wrote:
| 100M sats per BTC my dude
| joshjdr wrote:
| This comment looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen!
| Schroedingersat wrote:
| No argument that it isn't a scam, but you appear to
| fundamentally misunderstand the concept of exponential
| growth.
|
| Adding a linear amount to a pool induces an exponentially
| decaying inflation rate which becomes negligible after a
| decade or two.
|
| As such, dogecoin is the same fomo/'store of
| value'/deflationary scam as all the other coins, just skewed
| a little less towards the first suckers to join the ponzi
| scheme
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(page generated 2022-06-16 23:02 UTC)