[HN Gopher] Sciter - Multiplatform HTML/CSS/JavaScript UI Engine...
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Sciter - Multiplatform HTML/CSS/JavaScript UI Engine for
Applications
Author : thunderbong
Score : 167 points
Date : 2022-06-16 13:02 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (sciter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (sciter.com)
| e1g wrote:
| Note, Sciter does not embed a browser engine but _reimplements_
| the DOM /CSS/JS (via QuickJS) logic in C++ which means many
| familiar web patterns will work, many will not, and many might
| behave differently. Unlike Electron, Sciter will not be the best
| option to wrap an existing web app and expect it to work as a
| desktop app.
|
| Partial compatibility tables are at
| https://sciter.com/developers/for-web-programmers/
| wener wrote:
| Sciter is like React Native with extra Web like feature and a
| more flex "jsx".
| [deleted]
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Honest question: how is "reimplements in C++" different from
| implementing their own browser engine?
|
| Is it purely the absence of a JS virtual machine and instead
| compiles JS code directly to C++ and into native code?
| The_Colonel wrote:
| It does have a JavaScript VM, just slower (QuickJS as
| compared to electron's V8).
| EGreg wrote:
| So what's "Quick" about it? Would having a slower JS engine
| be outweighed by some other savings? Honestly, the biggest
| one is memory... Electron is the biggest memory hog I've
| ever seen, ONE application slows my 16GB macbook to a crawl
| and it starts swapping to HD. How to stop that?
| The_Colonel wrote:
| If it's ONE application why do you jump to the conclusion
| it has to be electron's as opposed to the actual
| application's fault?
|
| Electron has some baseline overhead (~100 MB RAM IIRC),
| but otherwise it's not difficult to write well behaving
| applications with it.
| cyber_kinetist wrote:
| It's "Quick" in the sense that it's a bytecode
| interpreter instead of a heavyweight JIT, so much faster
| startup times (although overall compute performance is
| much slower). And the library is much smaller than more
| heavyweight engines like V8, so good for reducing overall
| app size.
|
| Recently Facebook had to implement a whole new non-JIT
| Javascript engine just for the purpose of optimizing
| startup times for React Native apps
| (https://github.com/facebook/hermes). If you consider how
| even Facebook had to ditch the V8 JIT for their purpose
| it's totally understandable why Sciter chose QuickJS as
| their new Javascript engine.
| e1g wrote:
| Yes, and the difference is the maturity of the engine. For
| example, to execute JS files Sciter uses QuickJS which runs
| ~20-30x slower than V8 JIT [1] and has no support for Intl
| [2]. Sciter's spin on HTML/CSS is also different [3], which
| might even be _better_ than the standard DOM /CSS, but
| _different_ means you 're coding specifically against the
| internals of this packaging/distribution method.
|
| [1] https://bellard.org/quickjs/bench.html
|
| [2] https://test262.report/?engines=v8%2Cqjs
|
| [3] https://sciter.com/tutorial-learn-sciters-html-
| components-in...
| tannhaeuser wrote:
| > _Sciter 's spin on HTML/CSS is also different [3]_
|
| Hmm, that was new to me and quite disappointing TBH. I
| thought the entire point of an embeddable web rendering
| component is to leverage existing "standards"/practices,
| especially CSS' out-of-this-world complexity. Why would
| anyone in normal mental health condition embrace HTML and
| CSS for coding apps if the result can't even be used in
| browsers?
|
| I had counted Sciter towards browser implementations; but
| now I see it does nothing to prevent our fall into a second
| medieval age once no-one understands the job-security
| machine that is CSS. What an utter piece of garbage CSS is,
| counter to the entire point of using markup.
| wener wrote:
| sciter is good if you are looking for make an app based biz which
| not depends too much on web spec.
|
| BTW, sciter only allowed dynamic linking for free use, the binary
| is close sourced. https://sciter.com/prices/
|
| cross comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31764929
| marcosdumay wrote:
| The SDK and the webview links on gitlab have a BSD3 license.
|
| I think that very confusing prices page isn't saying what you
| think it is (when I read it, I thought it too).
| elwebmaster wrote:
| What's really useful in most of the desktop UI frameworks is not
| so much the declarative design language but the "designer" type
| tools which come with them for .Net, QT, etc. Is there a similar
| tool which comes with a set of common components that you can use
| to layout the design and then just change the CSS/HTML for more
| advanced styling requirements?
| account-5 wrote:
| I've been keeping an eye on the for a while. I like the sound of
| it a lot. I still have no idea how to use it though, from what I
| can tell I would need to learn c++, write a program in that and
| embed sciter in it for the UI component.
|
| More than happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
|
| I'm seriously considering spending the time to learn Dart as this
| seems to be a true cross platform language (desktop, mobile,
| web). I don't really fancy electron like wrappers. Again more
| than happy to be put right if I'm wrong.
| afavour wrote:
| Guess we're doing a "web UI on the desktop" morning on HN, huh?
|
| Sciter has always been near the top of my list of tech I want to
| play around with. Last I saw the creator was working to get a JS
| runtime attached to it which might finally be the thing to
| motivate me to try it out.
| amendegree wrote:
| marcodiego wrote:
| In the 90's there was a small app called "InfoCourier" which was
| an "HTML Compiler" which allowed you to create a local website in
| HTML and then turn it into a windows exe file.
| wener wrote:
| Nowadays, it's called react-native, you get HTML like compiler
| to a windows/macos exe.
| _gabe_ wrote:
| It looks like windows is supported, but I couldn't find
| anything non-experimental for MacOS. Is MacOS still
| officially supported by react native?
|
| Edit: I just found this https://github.com/microsoft/react-
| native-macos . So Microsoft is officially supporting react
| native on macos? That's pretty ironic haha.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| Tauri, Sciter and Wails, three electron alternatives are now on
| spot 1,2 and 3 on hacker news.
|
| If you need ideas for your tech blog, let me recommend doing a
| post comparing the 3 :)
| capableweb wrote:
| The only one missing now is Electron and we'll have a real
| battle :)
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| Besides shipping vulns, what category is Electron beating the
| rest in? Genuinely curious.
| Kiro wrote:
| See the sibling thread:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31765784
| capableweb wrote:
| I'm in no way a fan of Electron and much rather use Tauri.
| But if you want something proven, wildly deployed and with
| the biggest community/potential support, then probably
| Electron is the best currently, just because of how old it
| is.
| aaaaaaaaata wrote:
| People say this about using Apache as a webserver; I
| understand it, but don't know if I agree with it.
| ihateolives wrote:
| I'm running Apache for all my services and it's totally
| fine. It does everything I need and since I'm not running
| Fortune 500 websites or anything performance is more than
| enough. If it works, I don't need with it.
| capableweb wrote:
| I'm not particularly risk-averse myself either, so I
| don't agree with it either. But I do know some are, so
| those seems to be the arguments in favor of Electron from
| that perspective.
| redavni wrote:
| Just a personal anecdote, I work in an industry that is
| extremely risk averse. I still use 300 baud modems every
| day. Apache is new-fangled nonsense.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| On the other hand, this isn't some web page you
| distribute everywhere an hope it's compatible. Those
| engines are self-contained, so if your application works,
| it works.
| yuchi wrote:
| That's correct for Sciter, but Tauri uses the OS' browser
| engine, so you're back to the hostile environment /
| unknown territory of the web.
| wener wrote:
| Electron is irreplaceable if
|
| - you want to cut the dev cost on support all platform -
| maybe MOST important
|
| - you want Browser like feature - embed webview not iframe
|
| - you want to make sure the feature is there, if you can
| not polyfill
|
| Memory is cheap, download size is cheap.
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