[HN Gopher] A mystery of the ketogenic diet: benevolent pseudo-d...
___________________________________________________________________
A mystery of the ketogenic diet: benevolent pseudo-diabetes (2019)
Author : JPLeRouzic
Score : 113 points
Date : 2022-06-15 16:24 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| eternityforest wrote:
| Do we have any evidence it's benevolent? I thought there were
| studies showing keto people were a bit more likely to die?
| Melatonic wrote:
| I've done Keto and for some periods of time I liked it. But I
| think what really happens is that most people are not eating Real
| Food (which is an actual term btw) and when they switch to Keto
| they cut out a ton of processed crap and wheat/corn derivatives
| and that is actually what makes them feel better.
| dawnerd wrote:
| You can eat heavily processed keto food too. Dirty Keto still
| works and not going to lie I do it a lot and still end up
| feeling better.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| I lost a ton of weight and have kept it off for a decade by
| cutting out sweetened drinks, getting rid of refined
| carbohydrates, and learning to cook my own food from scratch.
|
| I make no effort to count calories or control portions.
| Darkphibre wrote:
| Love the anecdote, wish it applied to me!! I constantly drift
| upwards, even when eating crazy healthy. My "caloric
| rheostat" is just dialed in a bit high, so I have to accept I
| need to eat less than I think is correct... so I have to
| watch my macros religiously.
|
| But, that's what healthy living habits are: Finding what
| works for you!
| hoofhearthed wrote:
| I'm a 30 year old male, running a little over my third
| 'diaversary', don't have any other type 1's in the family so
| diagnose was really surprising at first.
|
| Have always thought my Ketogenic diet period, which I ran for
| about 9 months approx 1.5 years before diagnose, could have had
| something to do with me 'developing' type 1. Did discuss this
| with my doc, she assured me they found the markers in my blood
| work indicating auto immune disease etc.
|
| Still intrigued by these kind of papers that seem to relate the
| different topics.
| oifjsidjf wrote:
| Could you write what your keto diet was like before the
| diagnosis? Eg meats, oils, what kind of fats..? Also how much
| did you eat? Do you exercise?
| thepasswordis wrote:
| Just an anecdote: keto diets for control of obesity are so
| effective it feels like a hack.
|
| It's really interesting to see the diet industry attack this.
| Calling it a "fad diet" as if eating low carbs is somehow a fad.
| Other things I've seen are essentially "keto diets are for
| treating epilepsy, not for losing weight!" Etc.
|
| Keto diets don't require you to buy any products or books or take
| any courses or anything. Just literally read the nutrition facts
| and eat 20-50 carbs a day.
|
| If you are struggling with obesity I _highly_ recommend trying a
| low carb diet.
| freetanga wrote:
| Almost all Keto programs include some minerals you might be
| missing out from limiting your food selection- zinc and
| potassium come to mind.
|
| While I generally agree with you, I think many people have a
| strong rebound after a few months, that does not teach adequate
| portion size for later on, and after some age and some health
| conditions, it can put stress on kidney / liver
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| they don't have to. you can get those from plants and adding
| in potassium salt. It's not a big deal.
| RobertRoberts wrote:
| I don't think you even need to go full keto to get benefit from
| this idea. I often just eat eggs and some veges for breakfast
| on weekends (knowing full well I will be hungry for lunch) and
| this has helped me control my appetite, be satisfied/satiated
| and not gain weight. (I practice IF as well though during the
| week)
| chinchilla2020 wrote:
| The diet industry makes their money on the perpetually-
| overweight. They don't make money off of someone who modified
| their eating habits and is now physically fit.
|
| Physically fit people don't buy their magic pills and weight
| loss programs.
| GameOfFrowns wrote:
| >Physically fit people don't buy their magic pills and weight
| loss programs.
|
| You would be amazed by the amount of supplement pills and
| powders with which many "fit and healthy" people fill up
| their cabinets, while paying 1000s of dollars for beach body
| DVD programs, apps, overpriced kitchen appliances and branded
| gear. It's just a different industry that is selling you the
| illusion.
| koningrobot wrote:
| > Just an anecdote: keto diets for control of obesity are so
| effective it feels like a hack.
|
| I'm genuinely fascinated that you prefaced this clearly-not-an-
| anecdote with "just an anecdote". If it had been an anecdote,
| it would have been fine without the preface. Instead it's a
| sweeping claim that at best requires several anecdotes to
| support it.
| thepasswordis wrote:
| How is my sharing my experience _not_ an anecdote?
|
| >a short amusing or interesting story about a real incident
| or person.
|
| >keto is so effect [for me] that it feels like a hack [to
| me].
|
| This is literally an anecdote.
| koningrobot wrote:
| You made a statement about "keto diets" in the plural, and
| "for control of obesity" in general. An anecdote would be
| you relating which of this plurality of keto diets you
| tried and what results you found with each of them. "Keto
| diets [...] are effective" is a conclusion one may or may
| not take away from such anecdotes, but it is not itself an
| anecdote.
| omega3 wrote:
| Isn't the ratio between fats and proteins also important?
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Yeah, it's like 85% fat, 10% protein, 5% carbs. low carb
| doesn't really go like that, it's basically "just don't have
| sugar and carbs" but doesn't propose a ratio of perfection
| for fats vs protein.
| nerdawson wrote:
| Couldn't agree more!
|
| Keto is EASY compared to any other diet I've tried for one key
| reason: you don't feel hungry.
|
| You can eat as much as you want, whenever you like. Soon enough
| though the effects kick in, your hunger is supressed, and you
| have to remind yourself to eat at times.
|
| No matter how enthusiastic you are at the start, hunger quickly
| erodes willpower. I failed miserably at the typical low-fat
| diet. Keto was the cheat code.
| _zoltan_ wrote:
| I loved keto when I did it - just step on the scale in the
| morning, see results, and voila, positive feedback loop.
|
| The only downside that I can think of it was really, really,
| really, REALLY boring.
|
| so boring in fact that after a while I did not look forward
| to eating - while normally I am a foodie and just love to
| eat, when I did keto that wish to eat was gone.
|
| however I still would very much recommend keto if you can
| find the life setting that supports you doing keto, because I
| can guarantee you that other members of your family will not
| want to eat what you eat- once or twice, MAYBE, but not all
| the time.
| saurik wrote:
| Maybe life is supposed to be boring. That, or maybe we
| should all try heroin?
| rrssh wrote:
| If your life is boring and you have tried everything you
| should try heroin.
| Aerroon wrote:
| The second reason why keto is easy is because it produces
| "results" very quickly. Your scale will drop rapidly in just
| a few days. You haven't _actually_ lost that amount of fat,
| you 've lost a bunch of water in your cells, but the scale
| still tells you that the number went down. And the number
| changing for the better is what can help us keep at it.
|
| This is also a "hack" to get into clothes that are a little
| too tight way faster. Your body basically shrinks a little.
| biomcgary wrote:
| Just make sure you supplement potassium since that tends to
| be lost with the water.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| They're a hack because they're indirectly calorie deficient, as
| it's incredibly hard to overeat on calories without carbs
| (unless you're eating a ton of fat). If you did while on a keto
| diet, you'd still gain weight.
|
| Weight gain = calories in - calories out
| oh_sigh wrote:
| This completely disregards the question of _why_ is it easier
| to overeat on carbs than it is on protein /fats?
|
| Protein is as calorie dense as carbs, and fat is twice as
| calorie dense as carbs. So it isn't mere volume of food in
| the stomach that causes the difference - if it was, it would
| be easier to overeat on protein/fats than on carbs.
|
| Basically, it sounds like you're treating the human body like
| some black hole that calories get thrown into, when in
| reality there is a very complex feedback loop taking place
| based on what your bodily inputs and outputs are.
| biomcgary wrote:
| As an evolutionary biologist, I suspect that mammals (and
| likely other animals) are primed to take advantage of
| sugary, transiently available food (i.e., fruit) by storing
| it as fat. Fructose in particular bypasses most of the
| feedback loops that control glucose.
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| Dr Richard Johnson has researched this extensively and,
| yes, fructose consumption triggers increased fat storage
| in almost all humans. He summarized his research findings
| in a book[1] and has discussed his findings in a number
| of interviews [2]. I highly recommend the linked podcast
| if this is a topic that interests you.
|
| 1 - https://www.amazon.com/Fat-Switch-Richard-J-Johnson-
| ebook/dp...
|
| 2 - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/rick-johnson-m-
| d-metab...
| imtringued wrote:
| Because it is processed garbage. If you want to get fat on
| fat use highly concentrated oils.
| imtringued wrote:
| Keto is about making your body regulate body weight on its
| own.
|
| Why exactly do I need to know this equation? My body can do
| that for me automatically.
| crazy1van wrote:
| Certainly it's possible to overeat even without carbs and
| still gain weight. However, there is more to fat storage than
| just calories. Like many systems in the body, fat storage is
| controlled by hormones. Hormones are affected by the types of
| food you eat. Therefore, what you eat can also influence the
| amount of fat you store.
| gotstad wrote:
| It is actually not only because Keto is calorie deficient,
| but also because it encourages ketogenic metabolism, which
| means that while you are calorie deficient you are more
| effective at burning fat. Compared with a standard calorie
| deficient diet, you have more stable energy levels throughout
| the day, because the body adapts to not getting carbs.
| notum wrote:
| There's also the loss of appetite, as there's one less
| component to the "Fat+Carb" compulsive eating trigger.
|
| I've had incredible success with keto, but I did yo-yo back,
| the downside of keto being so easy is that it's hard to get
| back into it, knowing that you'll almost effortlessly get
| results eventually, so I'm nutritionally procrastinating.
| tbihl wrote:
| Yeah, me too. Bread consumption is like a dial of 'do I
| really care enough to lose weight?'
| mrandish wrote:
| > the loss of appetite
|
| I've been strict keto now for over five years. Prior to
| that I was clinically obese for decades. I tried lots of
| different dieting approaches and most of them "worked" to
| lose weight to some extent. The issue was I would _always_
| regain the weight because I couldn 't maintain the diet due
| to the constant hunger and sense of deprivation. While all
| diets, including keto, ultimately "work" through calorie
| reduction. The unique aspect of keto for me was it was the
| only approach that allowed me to reduce calories without
| hunger or deprivation.
|
| N=1 and individual metabolisms and preferences are
| different, so I don't try to extrapolate my results to
| everyone. All I can say is that after struggling for so
| long with so many other approaches, keto worked for me so
| fast, so easily and so well - it does feel almost like a
| hack.
| tokamak-teapot wrote:
| Trust me, I can easily overeat calories without carbs - on
| keto - and gain weight. It's a lot easier to choose not to,
| however.
| mrandish wrote:
| I've been strict keto for over five years and intend to
| continue for life due to the weight loss, health, emotional
| and cognitive benefits I experience. A little while back I
| did a casual experiment where I intentionally increased
| caloric intake while remaining strict keto. I did
| ultimately start to gain weight, of course (because --->
| physics).
|
| What was impressive though was how long it took and how
| slow the gain progressed. Because keto calories tend to be
| so satiating, it almost felt like I had to _work_ at
| getting my energy balance to stay meaningfully positive.
| When I 'm full on natural fats, it's hard to keep eating.
| The other interesting thing was, even though I gained some
| weight, I maintained most of the non-weight related
| benefits (cognitive, emotional balance). My guess is this
| may be due to keto calories being almost all fresh,
| unprocessed foods.
| screye wrote:
| At the end of the day any rigid diet the restricts processed
| sugars is excellent. Keto indirectly ends up addressing this,
| and the rigidity of it makes it particularly effective.
|
| I find that keto excludes a huge portion of the population that
| is not willing to give up complex carbs in some capacity. As
| long as they drop outright sugars and grains, a person should
| still be able to get the advantage of keto while being on a
| more follow-able keto-lite.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| there's a table somewhere of all the different fad diets and
| what food they tell you to avoid
|
| a third column of "how it works" is the same for all rows:
| "calorie restriction"
|
| I've been doing a half-hearted keto and losing weight because
| I'm just eating a lot less by skipping pizza and breakfast
| bagels and honestly just don't have many meals in my cooking
| repetoire, so it's either protein shake or meat on top of
| salad.
| Stevvo wrote:
| Much of the benefits of any diet are actually not specific to
| the diet itself. Just being on a diet, any diet, is better
| than not for health.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| "calorie restriction" is far from the only thing in a diet.
| You won't get anywhere without a mindset. Keto absolutely
| helps with your appetite. That's every bit as important as CR
| over the long haul, despite what naysayers say. They like to
| limit the conversation, so they can preach CICO as if nothing
| else matters.
| scarecrowbob wrote:
| I've been doing keto and am fairly athletic. I also am doing
| it because I find it hleps my moods and affect, and I have a
| stable weight when I am on this diet.
|
| I don't think that you have to be calorie-restricted to
| benefit from a ketogeneic diet.
|
| The climber Dave MacLeod has a 4-hour long video that seems
| (to my untrained eye) to have a number of good sources. He
| also has a masters degree in nutrition and is a professional
| athlete.
|
| He describes how underfeeding was indeed a problem with his
| early experiments with this approach to diet, but how it's
| been quite effective after being careful to eat enough.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9dtfNZahKw&t=46s
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| Fair enough, thanks for the link
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| > It's really interesting to see the diet industry attack this.
| Calling it a "fad diet" as if eating low carbs is somehow a
| fad. Other things I've seen are essentially "keto diets are for
| treating epilepsy, not for losing weight!" Etc.
|
| > Keto diets don't require you to buy any products or books or
| take any courses or anything. Just literally read the nutrition
| facts and eat 20-50 carbs a day.
|
| But that's the issue, isn't it?
|
| Sometimes I feel like changing my usual snack of apples with
| some kind of biscuit / cookie. It's next to impossible to find
| anything below 500 kCals / 100 g at my local grocery store. And
| when I look at the ingredients, there's always a ton of sugar
| in there.
|
| The only lower-ish processed food I can easily find is sorbet.
| But that's impractical to deal with at work (we don't have a
| freezer).
|
| So most of the time, I end up buying nothing if I don't feel
| like an apple. Why would "big ag" cheer me in going this route?
|
| I should note I'm not even into Keto or anything, just paying
| attention to how many calories I eat.
| ajhurliman wrote:
| There are plenty of snacks that are keto-friendly: beef jerky
| (no sugar added), boiled eggs, celery + peanut butter, smoked
| oysters... the list goes on. Yes, cookies are not included in
| that list, if that's a deal-breaker for you then it seems
| like this diet wouldn't work for you I guess.
| nerdawson wrote:
| I've done keto a handful of times and found some really
| great snacks. Low carb cheesecakes, macaroons, peanut
| butter cookies, brownies with walnuts. They certainly don't
| taste as good as the regular version but they'll fill a
| craving.
|
| Typically you're swapping flour for almond flour and sugar
| for erythritol.
| [deleted]
| tbihl wrote:
| Cookies are one of those rare foods that most diets can
| agree you shouldn't eat, so that doesn't really have
| anything to do with keto. The only space for debate about
| cookies is whether you should have little or none (other
| than for high-power people who need to cover an energy
| deficit, which sounds like it would be a nice problem.)
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I used cookies to mean "generic sweets", as opposed to
| fruit. I don't particularly like "actual cookies".
|
| I'm in France, so the only time I've seen beef jerky in my
| life was when some dude I used to know brought some from
| the US. Furthermore, I'm really not sure if we have
| anything similar over here.
|
| Note, I said I wasn't doing keto (never have) so I don't
| specifically look for no-carb options. I just realize that
| those foods are more like "cravings", so they won't make me
| eat less during the regular meals. If I want to reduce my
| calorie intake, I need to cut somewhere. So I usually look
| into cutting the calories of the snacks. While I love
| almonds and other dried fruits (and their butter), they
| typically have a lot of calories. IIRC, pistachios have
| something like 600 kCals and I can easily eat way too many.
| lolc wrote:
| Beef jerky is just a form of cured meat. You can also eat
| salami :-)
| flyinglizard wrote:
| Try Quest Nutrition Chocolate Chip cookies. They are awesome
| (like most of the things Quest makes), and less than 1g of
| carb per unit.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I'll try to find some, but I've never seen that brand
| around here (France).
|
| I usually tend to buy protein bars from a sporting goods
| store, which have the benefit of making me feel full after
| one or two, and make me eat noticeably less at the
| following meal. But said store is quite out of my way, so I
| don't always have those on hand, and they do have a bit too
| much sugar for my taste.
| flyinglizard wrote:
| iHerb ships those internationally.
| bujak300 wrote:
| You can try baking your own cookies, biscuits and dry stuff
| like that. It's one of the really easy things to bake,
| they're durable, you can make them exactly to your
| preferences, add fiber etc. And if you want to geek out
| tuning the recipes and stuff, there is a lot of potential for
| that.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I usually do either that, or eat fruit. But sometimes I
| haven't had the time to bake, the fruit at the local store
| doesn't look all that great, etc.
| [deleted]
| fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
| Something I found kind of oddball about the keto diet community
| is that they aren't just recommending low carbs. They push
| people to eat more fat. I've seen a friend fail to lose weight
| on keto and he was eating tons of stuff like cheese and bacon.
|
| The "eat less carbs" message is great IMO but I think a lot of
| people need to eat less period. Personally I found that
| intentionally eating high-protein foods was a good way for me
| to be satiated with less carbs. A protein bar will fill me up,
| a chunk of cheese with twice as many calories won't.
|
| But I also acknowledge that people are different. I'm sure
| there people who are easily satiated by fat and can therefore
| eat unmetered fatty foods and lose weight.
| pengaru wrote:
| If you cut carbs and just eat more protein instead you can
| literally die [0]. AIUI you're _supposed_ to be replacing the
| carbs with fat when doing keto.
|
| I've known a few heavy people over the years who claimed to
| be eating keto and never seemed to be losing any weight.
| Whenever we hung out they would use their purported keto diet
| as a green-light to get extra meat and cheese in whatever we
| were doing, and inevitably they would also eat carbs. French
| fries, beers, late night donuts, ice cream, the usual slip-
| ups.
|
| If a person lacks self-discipline, a keto diet turns into an
| _extremely_ fattening diet. It does not degrade gracefully at
| all. You have to either stick to it and stay in ketosis, or
| reel in your fat consumption something fierce because it 'll
| all get stored as fat when you're running on glucose.
|
| It's kind of a major flaw with ketogenic diets IMHO. The diet
| inherently gets a person into a habit of consuming rich,
| fatty foods. But when they slip up, which let's be honest,
| most people will. It becomes something along the lines of the
| most fattening diet possible.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_Starvation
| ra88it wrote:
| Keto community generally recommends replacing carbs with fat
| and keeping protein constant. Protein consumption is almost a
| constant (with some variability due to workout regimen, etc).
|
| I think of it like a see-saw, with protein level being the
| axis of rotation (ie., it stays the same). Now you have 2
| remaining macro variables: carbs and fat. If you decrease
| one, you need to increase the other or else caloric intake
| might be too low.
|
| Keto community generally refers to the diet as Low Carb High
| Fat because not eating enough fat can cause problems on the
| diet.
|
| Edit: To be clear, assuming sufficient consumption of
| protein, if calories are still deficient, keto community
| recommends making up the deficit with fat rather than
| protein.
| rpmisms wrote:
| I read this as: "Humans and rodents have different metabolisms".
|
| It's still very good data and very interesting, but it raises
| more questions then it answers, and effectively points out that
| we have no clue how these metabolic pathways actually operate
| outside of specific circumstances.
|
| Edit: I'm in no way condemning this paper, on the contrary, I
| think it's great. This is good science.
| codeulike wrote:
| In Mice
|
| https://twitter.com/justsaysinmice
| lbarrera94 wrote:
| What I got was "Humans and Mice have different results on Keto".
| So is keto good or bad for humans?
| AmericanChopper wrote:
| Probably the biggest keto advocate/promoter is a guy called
| Jimmy Moore. Google some photos of him prior to considering
| whether you want to take his weight loss advice.
| dhruvarora013 wrote:
| I've been keto on and off for the last year and I've found it
| incredibly effective for weight loss. I understand the principles
| for effective weight loss, and while a lot of dieticians hate on
| keto, there is one thing that it taught me that no other diet did
| - read the label on packaged products in the store.
|
| Simply because of how strict keto is I began to read the
| breakdown for every single thing I purchase in the store. This
| may seem obvious to all but I never did it to the degree I do
| now. There is sugar in everything and the serving sizes are often
| completely ridiculous - I saw a protein bar where the serving
| size was half the bar! Other diets teach you food groups to eat
| and encourage but don't seem to have this side effect of teaching
| you just how messed up some packaged foods are.
| anothernewdude wrote:
| I had a similar thing, but without going full Keto. I still
| have pasta, potatoes and wholemeal bread for instance, but I
| fast 16 hours so I still have some ketosis going.
|
| I was trying to avoid sugar (i.e. Sucrose + Fructose, except
| for actual fruit), and replace oils and butter with olive oil.
| And for breakfast/lunch (because I still want to eat a normal
| dinner with my family) I eat the best possible versions of
| those. Porridge, Greek yoghurt, fruit and nuts.
| mbeex wrote:
| Those are the things that I learned as well. And some other
| related aspects like change in taste: sensitivity to unwanted
| sugar, eating (and enjoying!) chocolate with more than 90%
| cocoa, unsweetened whipped cream, etc. Control of cravings, and
| the claimed increase in concentration (but costs creativity as
| a downside) also occurred and were good experiences.
|
| I still think most people should not follow the diet without
| breaks, deficiencies simply exist in this one as well. I like
| my apple and also could not stand the sight of broccoli and
| cauliflower for a long time after finishing it.
|
| I'm living now according to some kind of relaxed low carb
| method, combined with occasional interval fasting (also
| allowing ketosis).
| missingrib wrote:
| >but costs creativity as a downside
|
| Can you expand on this part? Never heard of this before.
| colpabar wrote:
| This is exactly what happened to me as well. I did keto for ~8
| months, lost a bunch of weight, and learned that 99% of what's
| in an american grocery store has a _ton_ of added sugar. Even
| milk!
| tekno45 wrote:
| what milk are you drinking with ADDED sugar?
|
| https://www.usdairy.com/news-articles/does-milk-have-
| sugar#:....
| lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
| Maybe it was chocolate milk.
| dd36 wrote:
| Even butter!
| timbit42 wrote:
| A few years ago I was in New England and sampled a handful
| of white, whole milks. Half of them had added sugar.
| nightski wrote:
| Well that article is just flat out wrong. There are
| significant differences in carbohydrate count in 8 ounce
| glasses of skim, 2%, whole milk and half & half. At least
| in the US. I know because I pay close attention to labels.
|
| I use cronometer to track nutrients (macro & micro). It
| uses data source directly from NCCDB from the University of
| Minnesota.
| tgb wrote:
| They have somewhat different amounts of sugars by volume
| since the fat is removed, but they don't have added
| sugar. The caloric fraction from sugar will be much
| higher though, maybe that's what you're reading?
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| They don't add milk in but processing it can add/take
| away the amount of sugar. Homogenized whole milk of
| course is what they start with. The processing is quite
| interesting if you take the time to read up on it.
| However nowhere do they add more sugar in.
| [deleted]
| skrtskrt wrote:
| I cook almost everything I eat from whole ingredients from
| the grocery store, so other than bread (I don't use much
| dairy at all) I don't have to worry about hidden sugar or
| fats much.
|
| My problem is simply controlling the portion sizes of my
| delicious food - it's SO easy to eat large portions, and it
| takes weeks of ignoring your stomach's rumbling to get
| yourself used to reduced portions.
| joshgroban wrote:
| foxbarrington wrote:
| Feel free to correct me with a source, but I don't think
| there is scientific consensus that keto is the ideal human
| diet. Why would anyone care that a famous (infamous?)
| psychologist (as opposed to a medical doctor, nutritionist,
| etc...) has asserted its benefits? His view might be more
| relevant than a world-renowned fish tank cleaner, but I don't
| think he is the authoritative source people need.
|
| For the record, I'm a fan and have noticed benefits in my own
| life.
| FalconSensei wrote:
| > Insulin is the deadliest hormone known to man.
|
| So diabetics will die without it because?
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| > Dr. Jordan Peterson
|
| Since when did he get into med school?
| the_jeremy wrote:
| He has a PhD. Nothing in the parent comment claimed he was
| an MD (though they are basically just citing a random
| celebrity as proof).
| 908B64B197 wrote:
| Well it sounds a lot like he's giving medical advices...
| People have been sued (and lost) for doing that.
| timbit42 wrote:
| He's the new messiah so, being God, he knows all.
| [deleted]
| ben_w wrote:
| Ahh... diet advice from a psychologist is like cryptography
| advice from a game developer: it might be right, but you
| shouldn't bet your future on it without at least getting a
| second opinion.
|
| Also, "deadliest hormone" is giving me DHMO vibes. Insulin
| does many things (way more than I realised before writing
| this comment), you don't want to eliminate it from your body
| regardless of you diet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin
| rajman187 wrote:
| In most cases, ketogenic diets don't result in actually
| reaching and sustaining kerosine. It would be best to measure
| levels, though even that isn't extremely precise.
|
| Diets in general also tend toward caloric deficit, resulting in
| weight loss.
|
| Ketogenic diets are used to treat epileptic seizures but
| haven't otherwise been studied in large enough populations to
| understand the ramifications of long-term glucose deficits in
| the human body. YMMV just be safe.
| [deleted]
| Spivak wrote:
| But that's every diet, they're all CICO at the end of the
| day, but different people need different tricks to get there.
| Being around people doing different diets the difference
| seems to be how your body in particular signals hunger.
|
| * For my friends that find Keto effective it seem their
| bodies seem to find fat/protein super satiating.
|
| * For my friends that find volume eating effective it seems
| like their hunger is more triggered on "stuff in stomach"
| where I can't stand that feeling.
|
| * For my friends that like IF their hunger seems to be time
| based. The common element for my IF friends is that they
| started their journey very overweight and so it's been years
| since they were actually hungry.
|
| * For me and my other ED friends we all seem to deal with
| hunger by getting over the initial pang and then just not
| eating until our bodies give up trying and then just coast on
| that. Obviously don't do this.
| passivate wrote:
| You're 100% correct. Its mostly about finding a system that
| works for you. As a format fat person I have internalized
| the fact that my body's hunger signal is broken and that
| 'eat when you are hungry' leads to weight gain for me.
| Focusing on the CO part of CICO, especially non exercise
| expenditure of energy has helped me keep my weight in
| check.
| XFrequentist wrote:
| > haven't otherwise been studied in large enough populations
| to understand the ramifications of long-term glucose deficits
| in the human body
|
| How's the "long-term glucose surplus" control group doing?
|
| (Kind of kidding, but it's not obvious why the "less
| exogenous glucose" condition would be a priori the risky
| one!)
| dawnerd wrote:
| Did keto for half a year last year and lost almost 50lbs. I'm
| now doing it semi-regularly (hard to stay on when traveling so
| I just don't). It's been life changing. People that hate on it
| are the same ones that just say to exercise. Like ya tried that
| didn't work for me.
| blakesterz wrote:
| I was just curious why all studies done on mice don't have "In
| Mice" at the end of the title? Maybe this is the answer...
|
| "Mice-based studies that omit "mice" from title get 31% more
| media coverage"
|
| https://www.psychnewsdaily.com/mice-based-alzheimers-studies...
| AaronFriel wrote:
| Was this determined by studying media in mice?
| apalmer wrote:
| Well the thing is studies are not really for media or lay
| people, or even researchers/scientists out of a given field.
| imtringued wrote:
| Everytime I see dietary studies conducted with Mice I wonder
| how people end up so lazy they can't convince other humans to
| eat their diet.
| nxpnsv wrote:
| I think it is perfectly fair to put that in the abstract.
| [deleted]
| Seeing_Things wrote:
| thomascgalvin wrote:
| This "pseudo-diabetes" appears to be fairly straightforward:
|
| 1. Someone stops consuming carbohydrates
|
| 2. This causes them to produce significantly less insulin
|
| 3. In order to preserve ~~insulin~~ glucose for the brain, other
| insulin receptors are downregulated
|
| 4. Because of this downregulation, the subject is less tolerant
| of carbohydrates
|
| This is "pseudo-diabetes" and not "diabetes" because a person on
| a ketogenic diet _isn 't_ producing insulin, whereas a diabetic
| _can 't_ produce (enough) insulin, or is so desensitized to it
| that glucose stays in the blood steam.
| sph wrote:
| I've experienced this: after a month of zero carb, I had a
| couple bananas and an apple and went into a crazy sugar rush
| that lasted hours. Then I crashed and felt like shit for two
| days. But my metabolic system is out of whack from years of
| abuse, so in general I find the lower the amount of carb I
| consume, the better I feel.
| tediousdemise wrote:
| Nailed it. This is also the same mechanism of action for almost
| any addiction.
|
| 1) Consume external drug
|
| 2) Receptors downregulate (thanks to homeostasis)
|
| 3) Need more of said drug or withdrawals kick in (analogous to
| needing to take external insulin so body can get rid of excess
| glucose)
|
| 4) Rinse & repeat
|
| From a United States perspective: What we have is a duopoly of
| Big Pharma and Big Ag that gets people hooked on sugar and then
| uses medicine-as-a-service to hook them on insulin forever.
| There is no money in preventative medicine.
|
| There are other countries in the world that have already taken
| steps to get junk foods and sugary drinks out of the hands of
| children [0]. What excuses does the United States have?
|
| [0] https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/aug/06/mexico-
| oaxaca-s...
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| To be fair, the government is complicit in this food pyramid
| scheme.
|
| People are told time and again that it's healthcare system.
| Yeah, it's not health / customer focused. But all the more
| reason to do a decent job at avoiding that system. Instead,
| the status quo diet + lifestyle persists. (Political) leaders
| can't risk the push back trying to change the narrative.
| Seeing_Things wrote:
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| I would expect any organism that uses glucose derived from
| gluconeogenesis for glycogen instead of the select tissues that
| absolutely require glucose, would be selected out quite
| quickly.
| [deleted]
| wyager wrote:
| The brain runs fine off ketones. Better than on glucose, in
| many cases. This is why so many of the therapeutic targets of
| ketogenesis are neurological.
|
| Only red blood cells and a couple other actually need glucose.
| JamesBarney wrote:
| I'm not so certain a ketogenic diet is healthy. The Inuit who
| have been eating an almost entirely ketogenic diet for
| centuries can't effectively produce ketones. The ability to
| produce ketones was selected our of their population.
|
| I think nature might know something we don't know.
| thebigspacefuck wrote:
| What do they produce instead?
| whb07 wrote:
| I do not know what you're referring to, perhaps some
| supporting data would help.
|
| The current method of testing for ketones is ketones freely
| available in blood stream. The ketones are released by the
| liver when it's too full of them and thus they spill over
| to the blood stream. The consequence therefore is that once
| you're fully keto adapted, your ketones won't spike too
| high as your body can efficiently generate the required
| amount.
|
| Most people who do a long fast, they'll have 1+mmol (higher
| at 3+) ketones, whereas someone who's adapted maintains sub
| 1mmol.
|
| Also, if all you're eating is protein and large fats, youre
| producing ketones otherwise you'd die as there's no
| carbs/glucose. So yeah, Inuit and carnivore diet people
| couldn't exist.
|
| live experiments and observations are a thing, and they are
| happening everywhere if you do a quick search
| jaggs wrote:
| I think in 3. you mean preserve 'glucose' for the brain?
| thomascgalvin wrote:
| Yes, that's correct, sorry.
| tediousdemise wrote:
| Taking this opportunity to raise awareness about metabolic
| syndrome [0], a condition that is exacerbated by excessive
| consumption of carbohydrates. Per the CDC, it is estimated that
| over 30% of the US population has metabolic syndrome [1].
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_syndrome
|
| [1]
| https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2017/16_0287.htm#:~:text=By%2...
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-06-15 23:01 UTC)