[HN Gopher] Official IE11 end-of-life in 2 days
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Official IE11 end-of-life in 2 days
Author : frob
Score : 92 points
Date : 2022-06-13 18:54 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (death-to-ie11.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (death-to-ie11.com)
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| I was working a defense project last year where the whole UI is a
| java applet that requires IE. I wonder if they're still charging
| ahead with the implementation.
| carey wrote:
| If it's just for Java that's not really a problem. They might
| be able to run the applet directly with appletviewer, or
| repackage it for Java Web Start. Otherwise, CheerpJ has a
| solution for continuing to run the applet in the browser by
| converting it to WASM.
| dane-pgp wrote:
| As the linked FAQ states:
|
| "For supported operating systems, Internet Explorer 11 will
| continue receiving security updates and technical support for the
| lifecycle of the Windows version on which it is installed."
|
| and sadly IE11 came bundled with even Windows Server 2022, so if
| you're creating a website for users who spend all their time
| administrating Windows servers, you still have to support IE11...
| zinekeller wrote:
| Not really. This is the nuance that some people miss: you could
| only use the IE11 engine inside Edge when an administrator
| explicitly enabled your website to be there. This has two
| consequences:
|
| a) All ActiveX extensions are dead. This is problematic if the
| reason why IE is still being used is because it required an
| ActiveX content to work (so you couldn't just flip the switch
| to IE11 compat mode in Edge, you need to rewrite it since three
| years ago)
|
| b) if you're developing a public-facing website, you can stop
| worrying IE11, but if you're developing enterprise software
| you're still in hell for around seven years (give or take if
| Microsoft offers an ESU a la Windows 7).
| mario_kart_snes wrote:
| Hilarious technicality. Nice.
| babypuncher wrote:
| That is a stretch; Windows Server 2022 includes Edge. And any
| Server 2022 user who goes out of their way to make IE11 the
| default should probably be fired.
| ratww wrote:
| Yep. We have a Window Server 2022 VM for testing sites in
| IE11 (we're in a Microsoft partnership thing so we need IE11
| support) and after some recent updates it's been a pain in
| the ass to use IE even on purpose. Happy to not need it
| anymore.
| rsstack wrote:
| But they would also have Edge installed in Windows Server 2022.
| It's a very small population that has a trivial workaround: use
| the _default_ default browser that came with the server
| operating system.
| MBCook wrote:
| Except that new browser won't support Active-X or Java
| applets.
|
| Yes those still exist. Yes they are needed. Yes I have to
| support them.
|
| Pity me.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| > Except that new browser won't support Active-X or Java
| applets.
|
| That's mostly just used for specialized websites/webapps I
| think (often internal)? You can still launch IE for that,
| and use Edge, Chrome, Firefox, or any other browser for
| regular browsing. It's not substantially different from
| using Electron for desktop apps when you think about it.
|
| Many years ago I worked for a company that used an internal
| ActiveX-based application (which worked fairly well for us)
| and this is pretty much what everyone was doing.
|
| The biggest hurdle is probably corporate policies and such
| that prevent installing any alternative to IE yourself and
| IT dept. doesn't want to provide you with one either, but
| at this point I think that's just $BigCorp's problem and I
| don't care any more. For the record: I take web compat
| fairly serious and made things compatible with IE11 up to
| last year, but there's a limit.
| MBCook wrote:
| Oh it's definitely specialized stuff using Java. Like one
| feature of the specialized B2B thing I work on.
|
| The process to replace that feature is not done. So here
| I am.
| rsstack wrote:
| There's a difference between "our website uses ActiveX
| which is unique to IE11, so we need to support IE11" and
| "our website is HTML/CSS/JS, and we need to support IE11".
| I do pity you, but I no longer have to pity other people :)
| saratogacx wrote:
| Edge has an IE mode which is essentially hosting a trident
| control in an edge host so you can still stop using
| iexplore.exe and use this as your exception case.
|
| https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-mode
|
| We've tested this at my company that hasn't finished
| getting rid of java applets and it is taking place of IE
| until we're done with migrating away from them.
| MBCook wrote:
| We've tested that too. I'm pushing to just fix the core
| issue and get off the applet but we know that's available
| to us in the meantime.
| dane-pgp wrote:
| Well, yes, "Just use a different browser" has always been a
| workaround that web developers can suggest to their users,
| but let me point out a more substantive problem with that
| recommendation:
|
| Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1
| Industry (although it was later made available for it), and
| that operating system is still within "extended support"
| until July 2023.
|
| You're right, though, that basically anyone on any supported
| Windows operating system has an option available to them
| which probably takes less effort than that required for
| someone to add and maintain IE11 support to their website.
| rsstack wrote:
| > Microsoft Edge was not included with Windows Embedded 8.1
| Industry (although it was later made available for it), and
| that operating system is still within "extended support"
| until July 2023.
|
| Do people browse generally available websites from cash
| registers? I'd assume they only browse internal portals.
| zinekeller wrote:
| Microsoft has broken its maintenance-only policy (and in
| Windows 7's case its EOL policy) by pushing an update that
| installs Microsoft Edge and WebView2
| (https://support.microsoft.com/en-
| us/topic/kb5001027-update-f...)
| _-david-_ wrote:
| Do people browse the internet on their servers? What exactly is
| the use case?
| tims33 wrote:
| Great news! What is the next big piece of software that needs to
| be retired to make the Internet a better place?
| onion2k wrote:
| bind
| neatze wrote:
| Windows server, use Linux instead, it is possible to do this
| with samba for long time, I had this setup with samba for 50+
| hosts with AD/GPO/Storage all working, this was more then 6
| years ago.
| robohydrate wrote:
| My current career (VDI/DaaS stuff) depends on Windows Server
| still being a thing. Maybe I should switch to make it depend
| on Linux instead?
| neatze wrote:
| I don't know about cloud stuff much to be honest, if I
| would do it today, Linux server would also PXE booting
| Windows hosts (well samba servers are also PXE booted),
| that are cheap Mini PC's, I like having everything on
| premise, dual cheap servers + pfsense router (used would do
| it) will easily support 100+ hosts, with offsite full
| backup to rsync.net, I can see how samba servers can be in
| closest data center, instead of on premise.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| The only companies that make this work are engineering
| their own solutions. I hope that broadcom acquiring vmware
| will inspire the competition to be a little better in this
| regard, but it'll be awhile and lately the market has been
| swinging towards cloud desktops instead of onprem vm hosts.
| exyi wrote:
| I'd choose to kill some social networks... which are so social
| that you can't even read them without an account.
| o_m wrote:
| Edge up until version 18 is pretty bad, not far from IE11. It
| is the last Edge browser using EdgeHTML.
| toast0 wrote:
| Outlook/Exchange.
| ratww wrote:
| Outlook still used IE11 for some of its functionality up to
| Office 2021, until Microsoft recently patched it to use Edge.
| 2013 to 2019 still use IE11 for rendering some functionality
| inside Outlook. And of course MS Word (!) for rendering
| emails.
| dane-pgp wrote:
| Safari?[0] It's especially a problem when Apple don't allow
| other browser engines on its devices, although governments are
| looking into that.[1]
|
| [0]
| https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/22/safari_risks_becoming...
|
| [1] https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/10/uk-antitrust-
| agen...
| ash_gti wrote:
| I dunno, then there would only be 2 actively maintained
| browser engines, Chrome and Firefox.
|
| Webkit is doing pretty good on https://wpt.fyi/interop-2022
| so I'm not sure why Safari should be retired.
| 0x0 wrote:
| The problem is a mountain of older ipads and iphones and
| ipods that aren't eligible for the latest major ios
| upgrades, and thus get stuck with an outdated
| safari/wkwebview/webkit implementation. This is only going
| to get worse as the EOL'd ipads these days are quite
| powerful and usable otherwise. And due to Apple policies
| banning bring-your-own-html-engine, firefox or chrome can't
| save them either :(
| presentation wrote:
| Most of my Safari compat issues are on older iOS devices
| that don't get Safari upgrades, for better or worse those
| devices do last a long time and a lot of people resist
| upgrading Mac software.
| exyi wrote:
| At least it definitely shouldn't be the only available
| browser. So we could say that the Safari monopoly should be
| gone
| innocenat wrote:
| My only wish is that Apple make it easy to run Safari, both
| latest version and older version, on non-Apple device.
|
| I have had a design that broke only on Safari, and I would be
| at my wit end on how to fix it if I didn't have a Mac on
| hand.
|
| Even Microsoft still provide VM with IE8 [0] for testing
| purpose.
|
| 0: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-
| edge/tools/v...
| recursive wrote:
| I have a macbook on my desk. The only reason it's here is
| to run Safari a couple of times a year when something crazy
| happens.
|
| Some time in the last couple of years, it needed an OS
| update that took a couple of resident Apple experts to get
| through.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| > I have had a design that broke only on Safari, and I
| would be at my wit end on how to fix it if I didn't have a
| Mac on hand.
|
| I use BrowserStack for it; for just one issue a trail
| account is enough, if you use it for an open source project
| you can request free access, and for a business it's
| relatively cheap.
|
| I've got a pro account for a few of my open source
| projects; I don't often use it, but have on occasion (for
| things like you describe, and I don't have a Mac on hand).
| jmull wrote:
| Moving to a monobrowser internet... What could go wrong?
|
| Edit: oh, I should add:
|
| The main data from your first source is out-of-date... Here's
| the dashboard today:
| https://wpt.fyi/compat2021?feature=summary&stable
|
| Your second source is more of an argument to keep Safari
| around. If the Chrome/Safari duopoly on mobile is a problem,
| getting rid of Safari makes it worse.
| kadoban wrote:
| Chrome.
| gkbrk wrote:
| I guess in the spirit of the open web, Chrome might be a good
| candidate for retirement. There is even a growing consensus
| that "Chrome is the new IE".
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| Nimble Storage devices warn you if you try to administer them
| with Firefox instead of Chrome.
| iggldiggl wrote:
| Out of IE, Firefox and Chrome (and presumably also Safari, given
| its shared history with Chrome, but I can't test it), curiously
| enough IE(11) was the only one [1] to allow properly selecting
| and copying generated content, i.e. text added via the CSS
| "quotes:" or "content:" properties.
|
| Firefox/Gecko at least does a workaround for handling quotation
| marks (though it _is_ rather hacky, because it always copies them
| as a standard ASCII double quotation mark instead of whatever
| typographically more appropriate character the page might
| actually be using, and it always adds both opening and closing
| quotation marks even if the selection only straddles _one_ of
| them), but gives up for free-form text added via "content:", and
| Blink and presumably also Webkit don't handle that kind of
| content at all.
|
| [1] I've already forgotten how the old Edge based on EdgeHTML
| handled that scenario.
| breunigs wrote:
| On a related note, you can email Microsoft to add your domain to
| the "needs Edge" list: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-
| us/microsoft-edge/web-platform...
|
| If you try to open a host from that list in IE11, it will open in
| Edge instead. The process really is just sending them an email,
| so I did it for my personal site which still received occasional
| IE11 traffic from "yesteryear's megacorp" IP ranges. I don't have
| enough IE11 traffic to judge if it worked for these poor users,
| though it does on my Windows PC. Given my effort was literally
| sending a single email and wait a month, I am happy even if it
| helps only a few people.
| babypuncher wrote:
| I prefer to let IE11 users just sit there wondering why the
| webpage is not working.
| dane-pgp wrote:
| Don't you think that's a bit cruel, babypuncher?
| butz wrote:
| Goodbye IE11, your unique -ms-grid layout, problematic flexbox
| implementation and select styling won't be missed.
| marcodiego wrote:
| Let's remember the last efforts to reinvigorate IE:
| https://www.youtube.com/user/internetexplorer
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Support.. so if I have a problem I can call someone about it, and
| get a proper solution?
| lostgame wrote:
| Goodbye to a plague on the web coding world.
|
| We only wish you could've died sooner.
| pjmlp wrote:
| No worries, now we have works best in Chrome, or Safari won't
| implement it, instead.
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