[HN Gopher] How Trustpilot Extorts Businesses
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       How Trustpilot Extorts Businesses
        
       Author : czue
       Score  : 259 points
       Date   : 2022-06-13 11:09 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (medium.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (medium.com)
        
       | soco wrote:
       | Rather off-topic: am I the only one being told by Medium "please
       | wait we are checking your browser"? I don't have enough
       | motivation to wait for nonsense so there, I missed a maybe
       | interesting article...
        
         | throwaway744678 wrote:
         | Isn't it a Cloudflare thing, such as [0]?
         | 
         | [0] https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-
         | us/articles/200170086-U...
        
         | BayAreaEscapee wrote:
         | I just tried it in four browsers (Edge, Firefox, Chrome, Brave)
         | and it worked fine in all of them. Maybe it's just you? Or your
         | IP address?
        
         | byyll wrote:
         | https://scribe.rip and in this case
         | https://scribe.rip/https%3A/medium.com/%40ryanbadger/how-tru...
        
       | SMAAART wrote:
       | That's the same playbook used by Yelp.
        
       | bengale wrote:
       | An issue we had with trust pilot is that we got a bunch of our
       | users to give us reviews, and then trust pilot cut 40% of them
       | based on whatever they have going on in the backend, they
       | couldn't tell us. That for a small company is quite a valuable
       | thing to lose tbh, they claimed they reached out to those people
       | but ones who we are close with said they received nothing. They
       | gave us no pathway to prove they were legit review, just deleted.
       | 
       | Left a pretty bad taste tbh, trust pilots only suggestion was to
       | use their email setup where you CC them into customer comms and
       | then later they email the customer themselves to ask for the
       | review. Just seemed like a way to tie us in deeper with them.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | > trust pilots only suggestion was to use their email setup
         | where you CC them into customer comms
         | 
         | That and their insistence to use a JS-based widget instead of
         | just plainly copying review text smells like spyware. If it was
         | my company I'd give them the middle finger and a C&D for using
         | my brand's assets (logo, etc) on their site.
        
         | kionce wrote:
         | Huh, I didn't realise they can be so predatory. Did you switch
         | to something else after this?
        
       | aerosmile wrote:
       | People are comparing Trustpilot to Yelp, but having worked with
       | both I can tell you that Trustpilot is far more evil for one
       | simple reason:                 Trustpilot optimizes their SEO to
       | rank for search terms that include the "negative review" phrase.
       | 
       | You can see that quite plainly both in their source code (search
       | for "negative") or empirically by observing their rankings for
       | "[company name] reviews" vs "[company name] negative reviews."
       | I'll let your mind extrapolate from here all the fun powerplay
       | scenarios that result from this company strategically positioning
       | itself to be the magnet for all your most vocal haters.
       | 
       | Once Trustpilot has your profile up on their site, they will
       | quickly start ranking for the "negative" phrase. You will be
       | tempted to squash down those negative reviews by redirecting your
       | positive reviews there, which will then also give them higher
       | ranking for all of your review-related phrases - including the
       | negative one. At this point you're locked in - without your
       | intervention, your average rating on Trustpilot will always be
       | lower than on any other service, and in order to counterbalance
       | that, you will be helping Trustpilot's SEO more than any other
       | service. Game set match.
       | 
       | What to do? I would suggest four main principles:
       | 
       | 1. They will eventually get your profile, you cannot escape that.
       | But what you can do is create a profile yourself that will be
       | crippled in SEO (eg: wrong TLD, or slight mispelling, perhaps an
       | extra word, etc). You might have to take several swings at this,
       | but the goal would be to come up with a name for your company
       | that i) ranks for your correctly spelled name in their internal
       | search, but ii) is not competitive in the global SEO race with
       | other companies that have your correct spelling.
       | 
       | 2. Pick a different review service that's more honest and will
       | work with you on a good faith basis. I found the BBB to be the
       | most business-friendly of all of them (a bit surprising, I know).
       | They just simply don't operate as a VC-run business that has to
       | grow fast at all costs, and as a result, they won't turn on your
       | like other services do (eg: it's in the services' interest to
       | keep the content on the site, and the BBB will take things down
       | more aggressively than any other service I know). Once you pick
       | your canonical 3rd party review service, make them the #1 in SEO
       | for your name by ensuring that they always have an order of
       | magnitude more content than any other service.
       | 
       | 3. You might be pressured to send content to Trustpilot to make
       | up for the bad reviews. Do as little of that as possible, and
       | each time you do that, send 10x more content to your chosen
       | service.
       | 
       | 4. Some people (usually those meaning to inflict the most harm)
       | will always choose to leave their 1-star reviews on an external
       | site so that they cannot be taken down. But you can definitely
       | lower that volume by making it exceptionally easy for people to
       | leave a review on your own site. That approach is far more
       | favorable because you have a lot more options to turn the
       | sentiment of the reviewer from negative to positive (assuming
       | you're willing to do some custom coding). You'll still need a 3rd
       | party review service (eg: Yotpo) so that your ratings can show up
       | in Google Shopping etc, but you can collect those by sending all
       | your purchasers that standard "review your purchase" email. If
       | they leave a bad review using that service, you'll have the full
       | context and will be able to react accordingly. Apart from that
       | email, make sure that people can leave a review on your site
       | without having to verify their purchase. In my experience, a
       | substantial portion of customers doesn't realize why unverified
       | reviews are discouraged and often not even available, which
       | drives them to Trustpilot. So regardless if you're using Yotpo or
       | some other service (most of which don't allow unverified
       | reviews), make sure that a customer can click on a "review this
       | product" button right on your site. I'll let you figure out 1)
       | how to make this happen, and 2) what to do if in that case
       | someone selects a 1-star review (hint: put your best foot forward
       | right then and there).
        
       | yalogin wrote:
       | I have always thought companies like BBB and Trustpilot are
       | scams. They don't about consumers as the companies are their
       | customers. They are the one they target and get money from. So I
       | believe with them all bad reviews can be wiped out for a fee
        
       | flemhans wrote:
       | There's a reason Apple has such a bad score. They won't pay the
       | Danegeld.
       | 
       | I remember back in the days when they'd call us up and say they
       | could fix us a nice score if we subscribed
        
       | ceejayoz wrote:
       | This bit:
       | 
       | > If Trustpilot does not own the reviews, how can grant (and more
       | importantly deny) how you use those reviews?
       | 
       | is readily answered by their terms:
       | 
       | "You hereby grant us the worldwide, non-exclusive, perpetual,
       | irrevocable, royalty-free right and license to publish, display,
       | reproduce, modify, create derivative works of and commercially
       | exploit any material, information, notifications, reviews,
       | articles or other types of communication (hereinafter referred to
       | as the "User-Generated Content" or "UGC") which you create on the
       | Website as a Registered User. We may freely use and transfer the
       | UGC and disclose the UGC to third parties."
        
         | lovasoa wrote:
         | "non-exclusive". It's not because trustpilot has the right to
         | use the review themselves that they can prevent the business
         | being reviewed from using the review.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | andrenotgiant wrote:
         | I was surprised by the "TrustPilot doesn't own the reviews"
         | section.
         | 
         | It seems like the important word in the legalese you posted
         | above is "non-exclusive."
         | 
         | Say a user wrote a review on TrustPilot, and copy/pasted it to
         | an email to the business. Then the business posted the review
         | from the email on their website. Are they now violating
         | TrustPilot's TOS?
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | > Say a user wrote a review on TrustPilot, and copy/pasted it
           | to an email to the business. Then the business posted the
           | review from the email on their website. Are they now
           | violating TrustPilot's TOS?
           | 
           | You might want to get a release before putting it up, and
           | being right doesn't mean Trustpilot knows you're right. Might
           | make that blue box defamation, but that'd be a long, uphill
           | battle against a well-funded opponent.
        
       | devit wrote:
       | Feels like there's a big problem with the assumption that
       | reputation would curb that behavior.
       | 
       | The usual common sense concept is that if there was even the
       | suspicion that a business like Trustpilot would abuse their
       | power, their reputation would be so tarnished that they would not
       | only not do, but absolutely make sure it was almost impossible
       | for the perception of abuse to happen.
       | 
       | But instead, it looks like nothing happens when they flagrantly
       | breach trust, so it looks like in practice you can't really trust
       | any company at all.
        
       | inetsee wrote:
       | I am wondering whether a business being abused like this could
       | trademark their business name, then sue TrustPilot for trademark
       | infringement? Can anybody here who knows more about trademark
       | infringement comment?
        
       | lordnacho wrote:
       | This is basically correct, and has been pointed out several
       | times. It's like if you somehow had a person standing outside
       | your restaurant telling everyone about their particular dislikes,
       | but to get other people to talk you up, you have to pay someone.
       | And that someone turns out to be the guy who placed all the
       | haters there.
       | 
       | A pernicious business model that lives in the cracks between free
       | speech, advertising, and honesty.
        
       | jadence wrote:
       | This reminds me a lot of Jason Fried (of 37signals, now known as
       | Basecamp)'s complaints about Get Satisfaction back in 2009.
       | 
       | Get Satisfaction, Or Else...
       | 
       | - article: https://signalvnoise.com/posts/1650-get-satisfaction-
       | or-else
       | 
       | - discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=540540
       | 
       | Follow-up on "Get Satisfaction, Or Else..."
       | 
       | - article: https://signalvnoise.com/posts/1661-follow-up-on-get-
       | satisfa...
       | 
       | - discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=543431
        
       | synu wrote:
       | Reminds me of how Yelp tortures small family owned businesses. Is
       | this the endgame for any for profit review site like this?
        
         | Applejinx wrote:
         | Might be. I've had the impression that a pretty recognizable
         | name in this field all made up of B-words also functions in
         | this way (not sure they're as expensive or as abusive, but
         | still, same basic deal)
         | 
         | Not what I'd call 'better' and possibly not even 'business'
         | (and to the extent that bureau denotes a government agency,
         | definitely nope). So maybe there's nothing new under the sun
         | here?
         | 
         | I would even go so far as to call this an inherent problem of
         | trust and scale. As soon as the world's too large to experience
         | things like business personally or with your own circle of
         | trusted people, it's desirable to make some way to scale that,
         | and it's inherently a cursed problem that always becomes
         | abusive. (or possibly a cursed problem that more often than not
         | becomes abusive)
        
       | mwexler wrote:
       | Is there a business model for reviews?
       | 
       | Consumers continually say they want and use them, trusting some
       | type of collective wisdom of folks willing to take time to give a
       | review, assuming some honesty and relevance (reviewer has same
       | needs, experience, and use pattern as I do for the item).
       | 
       | Yet, like price engines before them, consumer demand alone
       | doesn't make success (some might also say that reviews are a
       | feature, not a product, but table that for now).
       | 
       | From Zagat to Angie's list, the BBB in the US, TripAdvisor, yelp,
       | 4square, plus a zillion others (along with on-site reviews
       | powered by Bazaarvoice and others)... So many have come and gone.
       | Amazon reviews are gamed, unclear what drives "Google Reviews",
       | blog reviews have faded...
       | 
       | Did social kill them? Maybe, but the few people who respond to a
       | "Hey, is X any good" on any forum or group seems less helpful
       | than these past offerings.
       | 
       | I've wondered about these "come and gone" tools for a while,
       | since price engines and reviews to leverage collective knowledge
       | were hallmarks of internet 1.0 lore, and it seems like we failed
       | at really delivering on those hopes. Still difficult to find the
       | lowest price on items, and still difficult to get a clear read on
       | product quality or value... And restaurants and other service
       | offerings are still harder.
       | 
       | Any thoughts on what commerce model would work for reviews to be
       | unbiased but collective, more than just the Consumer Reports
       | model of few experts and some surveys?
        
         | DoubleGlazing wrote:
         | Validating the identity of each reviewer. If they post
         | something slanderous then the business owner should then be
         | able to get a warrant/court order etc to force the site to
         | reveal the reviewers identity. So long as anonymous posting is
         | allowed there is no way to have a truly reliable platform for
         | reviewing anything.
         | 
         | IDing users wouldn't be too hard to implement. There are plenty
         | of businesses that provide instant ID verification services,
         | many of the new online banks and money transfer apps use these
         | services. The two issues would be cost and the fact that the
         | number of people using review sites that do this would be
         | pretty low.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Customers want a 1-5 star rating that says "yes buy" or "no
         | don't buy" - they rarely actually want _reviews_.
         | 
         | Even with all the gamed reviews on sites like this and Amazon,
         | _if you spend the time_ you can usually figure out what 's up,
         | but it takes time.
        
           | kionce wrote:
           | That's an interesting point and I agree to an extend, but
           | sometimes I do look for mentions of a particular feature or
           | use case, and in those cases a review that covers those
           | points are more useful.
           | 
           | So unless the review cater to me personally by covering those
           | points, I usually prefer a more detailed review (or a large
           | number of reviews/discussions by Googling in the hope that
           | _someone_ covers those points).
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | Yeah, what I find works pretty well with Amazon reviews is to
           | look at the bad reviews and see what they're complaining
           | about.
           | 
           | Often it's garbage (this won't do X--hey, if you had paid
           | attention you would know they never claimed it would do X!)
           | or irrelevant (it's not the fault of the product if it was
           | late, damaged in shipping etc) and sometimes it's just a
           | tread-with-caution (I've seen a lot of that on Amazon--
           | customers burned by combined-inventory or bogus stuff). If
           | it's legitimate gripes you've found something to avoid.
        
         | kionce wrote:
         | In my experience Reddit works quite well, when it works (i.e.
         | when there are people to engage with you)
         | 
         | My current thinking is that you need the reviewers to have
         | their reputation on the line somehow when they review
         | something. There are quite a few options to do this
         | algorithmically, happy to chat if it's something you are
         | interested in too.
        
       | lnxg33k1 wrote:
       | I mean scammers can be called companies, but they are still
       | scammers, but I think courts are the ones to contact in order to
       | fight back scammers, no? Like if they are using your company name
       | without permission, isn't it a violation in the first place? I'm
       | sure things can change if enough people sue them?
        
       | tailspin2019 wrote:
       | 100% agree with the sentiment here. Have seen Trustpilot's
       | tactics first hand and would liken their business model to a
       | modern day protection racket.
       | 
       | I don't think this is an inherent flaw in the idea of providing
       | trustworthy third party reviews. I think the flaw is in the
       | specific way that Trustpilot as a business operates. (Ie. Badly)
       | 
       | "Nice reputation you've got there. Would be a shame if something
       | were to happen to it..."
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | I remember, a number (probably a _large_ number -pre WWW) of
         | years back, 60 Minutes, doing a section on the BBB (Better
         | Business Bureau). They indicated that the BBB operated in an
         | almost identical manner.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > I don't think this is an inherent flaw in the idea of
         | providing trustworthy third party reviews.
         | 
         | I don't know, have we figured out a way to have trustworthy
         | credit rating agencies, or trustworthy journalism of any other
         | kind? The incentives for providing information lie in
         | manipulating that information for profitable effects. That's
         | why nominally informative media must be schizophrenically
         | supported by being paired with the open manipulations we call
         | advertising.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | The credit rating agencies are trustworthy. The vast majority
           | of credit file data is accurate, and their various scoring
           | algorithms are good predictors of default risk. There are of
           | course some false or erroneous records reported by creditors,
           | but those area tiny fraction of the total.
        
         | LorenPechtel wrote:
         | I think it's inherent because they need to monetize it to stay
         | in business.
         | 
         | If you want a trustworthy review system you need something more
         | like Consumer Reports--the user pays a subscription, the
         | product company is not involved. I doubt anyone can get the
         | inertia to make that work.
        
         | thr0wawayf00 wrote:
         | > I don't think this is an inherent flaw in the idea of
         | providing trustworthy third party reviews.
         | 
         | Just for the sake of argument, how would one go about creating
         | a trustworthy third-party review business? Yelp has been
         | accused of similar tactics for years with little pushback. I
         | just don't think it's possible to create an ethical review
         | platform on the internet. Way too much can go wrong.
         | 
         | Either the reviewers are paying you, the businesses being
         | reviewed are paying you, or you're advertising. Advertising is
         | a crapshoot, content creators won't pay to make sure their
         | review gets posted, so that leaves the businesses being
         | reviewed. And if your goal, as the owner of FooBar Business
         | Reviews, is to maximize your profits, these kinds of techniques
         | are going to start looking interesting really quick.
        
           | tailspin2019 wrote:
           | > I just don't think it's possible to create an ethical
           | review platform on the internet.
           | 
           | I definitely agree that it's a _hard_ problem, but I would be
           | wary about saying it 's impossible. This shouldn't be rocket
           | surgery!
           | 
           | > And if your goal, as the owner of FooBar Business Reviews,
           | is to maximize your profits
           | 
           | What is that wasn't your goal? Perhaps such a site could be a
           | non-profit...
        
             | thr0wawayf00 wrote:
             | > I definitely agree that it's a hard problem, but I would
             | be wary about saying it's impossible. This shouldn't be
             | rocket surgery!
             | 
             | The internet has now existed for 3 decades, it's become
             | massively commercialized over the last decade and a half,
             | and this problem still hasn't been figured out without
             | resorting to the mob tactics described in the article. If
             | it's not rocket surgery, why haven't we figured it out yet?
             | 
             | People still want to see the internet as this limitless
             | utopia without boundaries or faults. If we're gonna be wary
             | about throwing around the word "impossible", then we need
             | to start seeing some concrete solutions to these very real,
             | widespread problems. This is basically a modified version
             | of the content moderation problem. You can either include
             | all voices on an online platform and host propaganda and
             | disinformation, or you can try to limit disinformation by
             | removing some users from your platform. You can't do both.
             | 
             | > Perhaps such a site could be a non-profit...
             | 
             | Being non-profit doesn't automatically solve the problem.
             | Wikipedia is a non-profit and its subjected to manipulation
             | all the time. As long as there are people out willing to
             | pay money to have a certain reputation online, there will
             | be no such thing as a truly objective review forum.
        
           | creaghpatr wrote:
           | As a buyer, I just take into account this reality when
           | evaluating reviews. There is still useful information to be
           | found, but the sentiment and comments I never extrapolate to
           | the whole user population. Pretty typical for companies to
           | incentivize positive reviews on these sites too, which is
           | fine with me but also something I take into account.
        
           | bryanrasmussen wrote:
           | >Just for the sake of argument, how would one go about
           | creating a trustworthy third-party review business?
           | 
           | clients would in some way have to be the people getting
           | reviews of things. It would be more of an agent type tool
           | that would go out and find things that fit the particular
           | clients' wants. It does not admittedly seem like something
           | that could work without a number of other things being added
           | to it to make people want to pay for reviews.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | I don't think you can create a for-profit business that is
           | trustworthy here because the incentives are too messed up.
           | 
           | You could do an open non-profit structure where all reviews
           | can be analyzed, including "removed" reviews (have a second
           | data feed that is raw, with the appropriate disclaimers").
        
           | projektfu wrote:
           | In theory you could be paid by customers for helpful reviews.
           | Consumer Reports, for example.
           | 
           | I think this is the Angie's List model but I don't know how
           | that is working.
           | 
           | I am concerned about the EBSCO model where business are
           | ranked and then pay to be advertised as top offerings. It
           | seems like it might not necessarily choose good businesses.
           | Often their research is based on some kind of survey.
           | 
           | User-generated content for free leads to the
           | Yelp/RipOffReport (and TrustPilot?) model.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Even Consumer Reports has the problem of not necessarily
             | checking/testing for the right things - and very rarely
             | have the ability or time to test over long periods of time.
             | They do some with the cars, but most things you'd buy will
             | last ten+ years, and may exhibit faults later in their
             | lifecyle.
             | 
             | An example:
             | https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/can-we-
             | believ...
        
             | tailspin2019 wrote:
             | > Consumer Reports, for example.
             | 
             | Not sure if it's comparable but in the UK we have "Which?"
             | magazine which provides reader-funded "supposedly
             | impartial" product/business reviews. (It started as a
             | printed magazine but is now largely an online venture I
             | think).
             | 
             | I haven't done much due-diligence on them but they've been
             | going for a long time (edit: wow, since 1957 it seems!) and
             | traditionally have had a decent reputation in the UK.
             | 
             | I've personally paid for their print magazine and more
             | recently online subscription for brief periods when wanting
             | some analysis on a couple of important purchases, and found
             | the information to be useful.
             | 
             | https://www.which.co.uk
        
             | mbesto wrote:
             | > In theory you could be paid by customers for helpful
             | reviews.
             | 
             | Nope, this will easily be gamed.
             | 
             | I don't think there is a financial model on the planet that
             | would make reviews 100% trustworthy.
        
           | synu wrote:
           | Maybe some kind of circle of trust? I would trust reviews
           | written by my contacts more than internet randos. People they
           | know a little less, and beyond that not really at all.
           | 
           | I think the problem is that if you make it into a business it
           | messes up all the incentives, but if you don't make it a
           | business there isn't an incentive to put time and effort in
           | to combat spam, lawsuits, and so on. Maybe a big open source
           | undertaking, like Wikipedia but with reviews?
        
             | thr0wawayf00 wrote:
             | > Maybe a big open source undertaking, like Wikipedia but
             | with reviews?
             | 
             | Wikipedia is certainly not immune from manipulation. A
             | friend of mine worked for a firm that edited Wikipedia
             | pages for a fee and typically catered towards the ultra-
             | wealthy and politicians.
        
             | kionce wrote:
             | I think Reddit works quite well as an effective review site
             | for products from certain brands, and in most of the brand
             | subs maintained by independent mods, you do get a wide
             | spectrum of views.
             | 
             | Spam is automatically taken care for you too (if you ignore
             | the non-review posts).
        
             | marcinzm wrote:
             | In a way you already get that by posting on social media or
             | sending a group chat of "anyone know a good X around Y" and
             | then seeing the results. Probably a better chance someone
             | will respond to you directly than leave a random review
             | somewhere.
        
             | justin_oaks wrote:
             | I've always thought "web of trust" this is the best way
             | forward for reviews. It's using trust that you already
             | have, and it allows you to give feedback to people who are
             | giving incorrect reviews, e.g. "Steve, you rated this thing
             | 5-stars but it totally sucks. What gives?"
             | 
             | I'm genuinely surprised that Facebook hasn't picked up the
             | idea of allowing user-submitted reviews of products,
             | services, places, organizations, etc. Then you could search
             | your friends, or friends-of-friends, for reviews. For
             | Facebook this would be a wealth of information because it
             | indicates which products you actually own and whether you
             | like them. How is that not a huge wealth of information for
             | an advertiser?
             | 
             | It'd be extra good if we could take Facebook out of the
             | equation, but the social graph there is probably the
             | largest currently in existence.
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | Maybe the reason Facebook doesn't want to get into this
               | space is because an ecosystem of trusted reviews would
               | actually be a major problem for their customers (aka
               | advertisers).
               | 
               | It wouldn't be good for an ad platform to show an ad for
               | something and then show the prospective customer the
               | debunking of said ad.
               | 
               | Facebook makes their money on the market being less
               | efficient. If the market was super efficient and everyone
               | bought what they wanted and was satisfied with it there
               | would be a lot less need for advertising.
        
               | justin_oaks wrote:
               | Excellent point. That thought never crossed my mind.
               | 
               | My desire for web-of-trust reviews to exist made it
               | harder for me to think as a ruthlessly profit driven
               | company thinks.
        
       | mytailorisrich wrote:
       | For consumers to use and trust a reviews website like TrustPilot,
       | that site has to demonstrate the they play tough with companies
       | because I think the most important thing consumers are looking
       | for is somewhere where negative feedback is published unaltered.
       | 
       | As soon as word that negative reviews are removed you're dead as
       | a review site.
       | 
       | The flip side is that I suspect that people make the effort to
       | leave a review when they are unhappy so reviews are likely
       | heavily skewed negatively _unless_ the company joins the site and
       | actively requests verified reviews from its customers.
        
         | flemhans wrote:
         | TrustPilot has been around for ages and you can remove negative
         | reviews there.
         | 
         | I don't think people realize or care.
        
       | declnz wrote:
       | Wow this left me a bit depressed. Are there _any_ good third-
       | party review systems out there then?
        
         | mdasen wrote:
         | I'd say there isn't _and_ there can 't be simply because of the
         | economics of it.
         | 
         | When you're using
         | Twitter/Facebook/Instagram/YouTube/TikTok/etc., you're opening
         | it many times a day and seeing dozens and maybe hundreds of
         | ads. When you use Yelp, you're going to the site with a
         | specific intent and trying to leave very quickly. You visit
         | Yelp once a week or once a month and you try and use it as
         | little as possible.
         | 
         | No one is doom-scrolling a review site and seeing ad after ad
         | after ad. They're going to the review site, finding something,
         | and leaving fast. So they simply don't get the kind of traffic
         | that you can monetize into a giant business. But they have
         | something that is valuable to businesses: their reputation. So
         | you try to monetize that, but that's difficult. You don't want
         | to let businesses pay to remove negative reviews so what are
         | you selling them? Also, what lies might your salespeople be
         | telling businesses that you're selling them? Are commission-
         | driven salespeople telling businesses that paying will get bad
         | reviews removed?
         | 
         | Angie's List worked off a different model where people paid to
         | get access. That meant that they didn't have to look to
         | businesses for payments and the reviews came from someone
         | "real" enough to have a credit/debit card and have paid them
         | money. However, it looks like they've pivoted their business
         | model and it's no longer a paid service (and now called Angi).
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Yeah, the financial incentives don't line up correctly.
           | 
           | You'd need something like a paid service that's backed by a
           | guarantee (some credit cards basically offer this for the
           | high-end cards; concierge service that will recommend a
           | restaurant (that takes the card, of course) and if you
           | complain to them afterwards they'll make it right or refund
           | the cost).
           | 
           | But for most things people don't even bother - everyone
           | _knows_ gyms are scammy with cancellations and people still
           | sign up, for example.
        
         | pydry wrote:
         | Which? magazine maybe.
         | 
         | Consumers are generally not primed to pay for reviews and when
         | they dont pay they become the product.
        
       | SnowHill9902 wrote:
       | You win them by ignoring Trustpilot and by injecting fake reviews
       | for your domain so that they are unable to extort you.
        
       | jafitc wrote:
       | I agree with most of the article but displaying a static 5-star
       | image on your website when your real rating is 4.6 stars (should
       | be displayed as 4.5 star image) is rightly called out as
       | disingenuous.
       | 
       | If you really want it to be efficient display a static "cached"
       | image of the rating and swap it for the iframe once the image is
       | loaded and displayed. This ensures fast response time and
       | accuracy of the fresh rating at the same time.
        
       | xfz wrote:
       | The article nearly lost me at the start:
       | 
       | > whether we liked it or not, we were now listed, and anybody
       | could leave a public review that we have no control over
       | 
       | Why should a business have control over public reviews? Unless,
       | that is they are libellous or otherwise in breach of some law, in
       | which case the business has a fair case against the publisher.
       | 
       | However...
       | 
       | I feel from personal experience that TrustPilot is a huge scam,
       | having had my genuine review suppressed by one of their paying
       | customers. It's a huge loophole - dispute the review to get it
       | off the front page, by the time it's reinstated, it's further
       | down and they've had a chance to harass the customer to get it
       | changed (incidentally, when companies do that I tend to drop
       | another star if possible and edit the review saying so.)
       | 
       | It's also a privacy nightmare for anyone shopping online (at
       | least here in the UK) if you use different email addresses for
       | each company, because you have to opt out every single time. And
       | if you don't leave a review, the send a reminder (as though it's
       | somehow my job to leave reviews).
       | 
       | I ended up blocking their domain trustpilotmail.com in my email
       | service, and if I see the Trustpilot logo on a company website, I
       | will look for an alternative provider.
        
       | Distozion wrote:
       | It probably is the end game for any review website. Your client
       | usually dictates the business model to a degree.
       | 
       | At this point, TrustPilots business model is essentially
       | reputation laundering.
       | 
       | If you pay them enough, they will use their mostly neutral
       | reputation on the consumer side to launder your potentially
       | shitty reputation to a more positive one. It's not like the
       | average consumer knows any better and I would not be that
       | surprised that having a positive score on TrustPilot is not the
       | decision maker for a customer, but having a very bad one - is a
       | disqualifying factor. Hence the reputation laundering scheme...
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | Pretty depressing that all review sites are potential scams. Do
         | you feel there's any way that regulation or oversight could
         | improve this?
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | In Germany, we have the government-founded Foundation
           | Warentest which has been known to provide high-quality and
           | independent reviews for decades [1]; additionally our media
           | such as the Heise publishing house (who have co-authored the
           | industry agreement on how to run product reviews [2]) runs
           | their own test series on products.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiftung_Warentest
           | 
           | [2] https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Verbraucherschutz
           | min...
        
             | Distozion wrote:
             | This is pretty much it. If the consumer is not paying for
             | it in some ways (for example in the UK, consumers can pay
             | Which?[1] to access their reviews) - the companies are.
             | 
             | If the companies are the ones footing the bill, I see no
             | way to have a fair system where a few richer players
             | couldn't exploit the system or the review company itself
             | charge companies as much as they can just for leaving them
             | alone and not rigging the reviews against them.
             | 
             | [1] https://join.which.co.uk/join/offers
        
       | MafellUser wrote:
       | Can you fight fire with fire? Can't you spam trustpilot with 5
       | stars reviews for your own business? Can they delete all of the
       | spams? If you don't pay them to get 'verified' then drown out any
       | bad reviews with good ones. Looking at how garbage their spam
       | filters are it's not impossible.
        
         | klausjensen wrote:
         | This is exactly what lots of businesses do. Trustpilot claim
         | they can weed them out, but from what I have seen, they're
         | noget very good at it.
        
       | amluto wrote:
       | I think a decent amount of this is a problem with contract law.
       | Google should not be able to require agreement to their terms to
       | update a map entry or use webmaster tools. Yelp, Trustpilot, etc
       | should not be able to enforce their terms on businesses that are
       | reviewed. Amazon and Youtube should not be able to impose their
       | terms for usage of brand and IP protection tools.
        
       | stormdennis wrote:
       | Maybe someone should do a review of Trustpilot on Trustpilot?
       | 
       | There's a company I used to be customer of, with a free tier but
       | who act in an underhand manner to their paying customers and for
       | quite a while they've been getting bad reviews from people
       | warning about their dodgy practices. Free-tier users are
       | occasional users in the main because if you use it a lot you're
       | pretty quickly getting 'commercial use' detected issues. However
       | in the last six months they'be been guilting those free-tier
       | users into giving glowing reviews and their positive review count
       | has soared while the negative reviews from paying customers has
       | been drowned out. So in this case, Trustpilot is also useless for
       | 'real' customers.
        
         | mikkelam wrote:
         | > Maybe someone should do a review of Trustpilot on Trustpilot?
         | 
         | Did you read the article? The reviews of Trustpilot are
         | mentioned.
        
           | stormdennis wrote:
           | I only read part of it. I'll read that part now thanks
        
         | reiichiroh wrote:
         | What company?
        
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