[HN Gopher] Foster care is evolving by relying on children's kin
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Foster care is evolving by relying on children's kin
Author : pilfered
Score : 34 points
Date : 2022-06-13 03:05 UTC (19 hours ago)
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| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| > Our European visitors are important to us.
|
| ...uh huh.
| hef19898 wrote:
| If we can't sell your data we don't want you! Typing this from
| Iceland, which is, at least last time I checked, not in the EU.
| Not sure if the GDPR rules apply here...
| gpvos wrote:
| Yes, the GDPR applies in the entire EEA, so also in Iceland.
| hef19898 wrote:
| Ah, didn't know that! I assumed it was an EU-only thing!
| barry-cotter wrote:
| Yes, EEA countries follow the large majority of EU laws
| but have no input into the drafting of them.
| googlryas wrote:
| It's more like "If you don't want us handling your data in a
| specific way which we do for everyone, we will gladly oblige
| by not letting you give us your data".
| light_cone wrote:
| "Honey, you are so important to me that I decided to dump you."
|
| If you tried adapt the corporate wording in your everyday life,
| you'd be judged by everyone as one of the biggest a-hole there
| is, and rightly so.
|
| I wonder the proportion of people like me who are aggravated by
| this bs...
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| Mealy-mouthed corporate platitudes really irk me too.
|
| I just assume everything any company says is a flat out lie,
| except when forced by law and even then they're trying to
| wiggle out of the full truth.
| light_cone wrote:
| Yes, I think it's a fair assumption unfortunately.
| tibbetts wrote:
| The "shadow foster system" is related to this and has some
| problems. These are complex situations, maybe sometimes there is
| no good options. But if you are interested in learning more,
| Propublica has done some good reporting on the downside of non-
| foster placements: https://www.propublica.org/article/they-took-
| us-away-from-ea...
| petermcneeley wrote:
| 50% of the homeless have been in foster care.
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| Would not surprise me. Most kids who had parents so bad they
| needed to be removed from them aren't going to have had good
| childhoods.
| cgriswald wrote:
| Do you have a source? With a brief search I was unable to find
| a credible source that supports your claim. These papers
| suggest that anyone involved in child-welfare as a child has a
| higher risk, unless they can go back home.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5644395/
|
| > Youth aging out of foster exhibit similar rates of literal
| homelessness and housing instability as other child welfare-
| involved youth, while youth who reunify after out-of-home
| placement in adolescence experience the lowest probability of
| literal homelessness
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969135/
|
| > Consistent with earlier studies, we found that youths aging
| out of foster care are at high risk of becoming homeless during
| their transition to adulthood. Specifically, 36% of the 624
| Midwest Study participants whose outcomes we could observe
| reported at least 1 episode of homelessness by age 26 years.
| That figure could be as low as 31% or as high as 46% depending
| on the rate of homelessness among those with unobserved
| outcomes, which means that, at a minimum, nearly one-third of
| the study participants were homeless at some point after
| leaving foster care.
|
| Obviously these studies are talking about risk and not a
| percent of the population, but it does seem that being
| effectively a homeless child increases risk of being a homeless
| adult at some point.
|
| The latter study mentions several mechanisms to ameliorate the
| problem.
| petermcneeley wrote:
| Here is some stats. Not sure if they are credible.
| https://www.fosterfocusmag.com/articles/foster-care-and-
| home....
| demadog wrote:
| No doubt an emotionally charged and complicated system, but
| surprised it's taken this long to realize what most would see as
| obvious.
|
| Nevertheless happy that's it's trending in the right direction.
|
| Pretty shocking at the end it mentions Gray fostered 41 children
| and 7 grandchildren...
| anoonmoose wrote:
| 41 children is impressive...but having to foster 7 of your own
| grandchildren certainly raises questions.
| gowld wrote:
| The article answers the questions:
|
| > It was her son Vaughn's child. He was on the street, doing
| drugs, and he conceived Evaughn with a woman who was also
| homeless and an addict.
|
| > She later adopted Evaughn's half-brother, Isaiah
|
| Making babies is much, much easier than caring for them. A
| woman and her male partners can make a dozen.
|
| Reproduction happens quite naturally, unless you have the
| resources, wisdom and will to to prevent it, and losing your
| children is quite easy if you lack the resources, wisdom, and
| will to care for them.
| mesh wrote:
| fyi, The Economist discusses this topic this week:
|
| For foster children, relatives can make all the difference
| https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/06/09/for-foste...
|
| "Research shows that children who have been removed from their
| parents but brought up by relatives do better in myriad other
| ways. They are less likely to have a criminal record or become
| homeless (as more than a quarter of those who have been in foster
| care or institutions do). Research also suggests why that might
| be so. Relatives are less likely than foster parents to request
| that poorly behaved children be removed. And they are more likely
| to take in groups of siblings, who are routinely separated in the
| care system."
|
| It also discusses some of the institutional structures that make
| this difficult (i.e. requiring that relatives become certified
| foster care participants before they can receive any of the
| support regular foster care participants receive).
| gowld wrote:
| I'm curious if they compared to kids who went into foster care
| but had neaerby relatives to spend time with.
|
| Obviously having some family is better on average than hacing
| none.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Foster care training is not too challenging, and includes
| fairly normal inspection of the house for safety purposes. It
| also comes with a lot of help for setting up food benefits,
| Healthcare, and so on. It's no more arduous than parenting a
| child with a minor health problem, and I've done both now. And
| it protects the child from exploitation.
|
| Also the in-home care and coaching that social workers give to
| at risk parents before they consider placing a child in foster
| care is quite extensive.
|
| Foster parents are regularly told that they are a last resort,
| and any family member do over them. Unfortunately, many parents
| who lose custody of their children exhaust their support
| structure long before the state intervenes, so they aren't
| likely to find help from family.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I am a foster parent. Before I share my perspective, a quick
| disclaimer: foster care varies hugely from state to state (and
| within California, it varies hugely from county to county).
|
| Here, there has been a greater focus on kinship care and in-home
| aid (i.e. not removing the kids) primarily due to a shortage of
| foster parents. There is a shortage of foster parents because the
| system treats foster parents like crap.
|
| > "I helped her do all of these things that I don't think a
| foster parent would have done for her. ... You're not invested in
| that," Gray said. "But for me, it was my granddaughter."
|
| Not to pick on the person quoted in this article, but this
| attitude exists all around the system; there is an implicit
| assumption that foster parents care less about the foster
| children than a neighborhood teenage baby-sitter hired for
| $8/hour to watch kids.
|
| > Plus, they aren't as likely to be moved to different schools or
| communities, and as a result they have better mental health and
| do better in school.
|
| This is a very odd statement to make; the foster care system
| around here always tries to place children geographically close.
| It's logistically easier, so even lazy social workers will do
| this. The one case where a child was placed with me for which
| there was willing and able kin was because it was not feasible
| for the child to make the mandatory visits with birth mom if
| placed so far away.
|
| > Some states also pay less to kinship caregivers than licensed
| foster care parents
|
| Perverse incentives around remuneration dog _any_ government
| program. California does seem to have addressed a lot of these in
| the past couple of decades.
|
| Not mentioned in TFA, but the increase in drug addictions is
| probably part of what is driving increases in kinship care; there
| are plenty of adults with serious drug addiction problems that
| have close family that does not. With other forms of abuse and
| neglect, it tends to be something that has been a cross-
| generational pattern.
| maybedks wrote:
| I was in foster care in WA.
|
| I was placed with "kin" and was abused further, then back to
| foster care, then placed with "kin" and abused further, then
| back to foster care, then placed with "kin" and was large
| enough to not be abused in the same way, then aged out and
| never spoke with those people again. The same with my brother
| (who is now addicted to drugs, living on the streets) and my
| sisters (went to different side of family, eventually adopted
| out, still went through drugs/homelessness).
|
| Reflecting on it as an adult -- the "kin" experienced the same
| hardships, culture, values, and limitations in every case as my
| parents. Outside of straight up abuse (which was present within
| foster care and with "kin") the problem wasn't really with
| individuals (my parents or other guardians), it was poverty and
| problems stemming from poverty (e.g. drug abuse, homelessness).
| Everyone in my family and community was poor, and had been for
| generations, so I got fucked over by the system again and
| again. I lucked out of that cycle, but my siblings (and now
| their kids) did not.
| gowld wrote:
| It's a very hard problem. Not all parents and kin are
| talented or loving caregivers. Similarly for foster parents,
| who may be looking for a victim to abuse or exploit for
| funding.
|
| Parents generally have a strong biological emotional bond to
| their children, and people who have lived together for mny
| years often develop a bond too. It's hard to create that bond
| if it's failed or never existed.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I'm a CA foster parent, and growing up my family fostered in
| WI.
|
| What you say is absolutely true. The trope of the neglectful,
| greedy foster parent is impossible to get away from. And if you
| provide love and care for the child, then you are trying to
| 'steal' it. Despite the fact that we formed our lives around
| these kids, made sure they visited and had frequent FaceTime
| with parents, we were still bullied by parents and agencies
| alike. The agencies will not hesitate to lie to foster parents
| to get you to agree to take a child into your home, and parents
| will not hesitate to lie to the state to get the child moved
| out. And both will throw you under the bus if anything goes
| wrong. Agencies receive 3/4 of the funding that should go to a
| child's care, apparently so irresponsible foster parents don't
| spend it?
|
| Our most recent was a happy case, with the child being reunited
| with a healthy mother, and dad not being anywhere near. A
| friend had her life broken by two very high-need children born
| addicts with no parents around. She got them healthy, endured
| their severe behavioral issues and carted them to specialists
| many times a week. And every time she wanted to find a new
| foster family because she was out of money or just burnt out,
| the agency told her that 'adoption was right around the corner'
| to keep her engaged. Right up until they showed up to take them
| away with no notice. It was sick.
|
| I never suggest anyone get into foster care. It's a broken
| system.
| gowld wrote:
| > I never suggest anyone get into foster care. It's a broken
| system.
|
| The good foster parents doing get into it for the system, so
| how bad the system is doesn't matter. They get into it
| because they want to help a child.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| At some point it gets bad enough that you look for other
| ways to help children...
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| It's a shame, but I have personal experience with shit-tier
| foster parents who "took care of" my own adopted children
| whose birth mother is an absolute piece of human waste and
| whose fathers were never identified.
|
| My toddler was brought to us at 11 months without the
| capability of turning himself onto his stomach. He had hair
| missing from the back of his head because he laid in a crib
| all day long.
|
| The other one was physically and verbally abused by the
| children of the foster parents she was staying with. This is
| after being taken out of her original household because her
| mother had a tendency to live and do drugs with pedophiles.
| Other than her school clothes, all the rest of her clothing
| was too small for her, so she's got photos of a Disney trip
| (the foster parents were "Disney adults" who would save up
| foster money to go on trips) in her school uniform while the
| biokids were in normal kid clothes.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I'm very sorry to hear that. It breaks my heart when this
| happens. (it's why we got into foster care!)
|
| Luckily, we bought and were gifted so many clothes for our
| foster kid that our own bio kids are now wearing them after
| they left.
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| > Not to pick on the person quoted in this article, but this
| attitude exists all around the system; there is an implicit
| assumption that foster parents care less about the foster
| children than a neighborhood teenage baby-sitter hired for
| $8/hour to watch kids.
|
| Unfortunately, there may be reasons that they assume this. Just
| for instance: one of every _three_ kids in foster care are
| prescribed psychotropic medications, gravely alarming the
| American Academy of Pediatrics. Notably, foster parents taking
| care of a child on such a medication are paid much, much more
| than they would if the child is not. The statistics on child
| abuse in foster care are alarming as well.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| Again things vary from state to state, but in CA, I couldn't
| give my foster children Tylenol without a doctor's orders,
| and all psychotropic medication was due to referrals by
| county appointed psychologists.
|
| Also, being prescribed medication does not change the
| payment. There is an additional payment for children with
| certain specific diagnoses, but that is only loosely related
| to medication; a child with a generalized anxiety disorder,
| for example, would not qualify for extra payments, but might
| be prescribed anti-anxiety medication.
|
| Also, w.r.t. the one-in-three statistic, the most common side
| effect of prenatal exposure to methamphetamine is ADHD, and
| if you send an elementary-school aged boy with ADHD symptoms
| to public school, you are likely to have medication
| recommended.
|
| > The statistics on child abuse in foster care are alarming
| as well.
|
| I'm not going to say there aren't abusive foster parents
| (because obviously there are), but it is probably hard to
| measure the level of abuse. I lost count of the number of
| (unsubstantiated) allegations made against me, and I can
| assure you I didn't abuse any of my children (foster or
| otherwise).
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| > Again things vary from state to state, but in CA, I
| couldn't give my foster children Tylenol without a doctor's
| orders, and all psychotropic medication was due to
| referrals by county appointed psychologists.
|
| I understand California had this particular scandal in 2016
| and passed some reforms. This is probably a consequence.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| This is going back to 2009, but so much in CA is left to
| the counties, that I 100% believe this happened in other
| places.
| nonameiguess wrote:
| I am attempting to become a foster parent in Texas and have had
| a similar experience. Placing with kin and even "fictive kin"
| (effectively, anyone the child already knows whether related or
| not) is always the first priority over placement with licensed
| foster families. I wouldn't even say this is entirely because
| of foster family shortages. It's just what they'd prefer to do
| even if every option is open.
|
| And yes, the system does treat us like crap. I don't even
| really want to foster, let alone try to get rich exploiting
| state payments for caring for kids. One, you can't. The
| expenses will always exceed whatever they pay you. I've already
| spent upwards of $80k on house modifications and buying a new
| car to comply with everything the licensing agencies said I had
| to do and that's before getting a single placement and spending
| anything on the actual kid (it does include pre-furnishing a
| child's bedroom, though). What I'm really trying to do is
| adopt, and since I've worked in the foster care system before
| (in California 15 years ago), I figured I'd give it a shot
| there as a I know kids who emancipate from the system without
| ever being adopted have absolutely terrible outcomes, even
| compared to other kids who have been in foster care. But, at
| least in Texas, there is no way to become licensed to adopt
| without also being licensed to foster, and because they
| privatized the entire system, you can only get licensed through
| a placement agency, and their own priority is placing kids in
| foster care. They don't seem to give a crap about the kids who
| are already legally free, and have even gone so far as to
| discourage being open about looking to adopt because apparently
| the state is reluctant to even place kids with you at all since
| their priority is the exact opposite, to reunite with the birth
| parents.
|
| It's honestly getting to the point that it's enough to just
| give up and go for private adoption instead, which we were
| initially reluctant to do because 1) I actually want to help
| the most vulnerable, worst-off kids if I can, and 2) it is very
| hard to tell who and what is remotely legitimate in the world
| of private adoption and who is just bullying teenage girls into
| not getting abortions and then extorting people like me who
| have money but are not biologically able to have their own
| kids. Who'd have thought the foster care system would manage to
| be even worse than that?
| aidenn0 wrote:
| > I don't even really want to foster, let alone try to get
| rich exploiting state payments for caring for kids. One, you
| can't. The expenses will always exceed whatever they pay you.
|
| I'm sure if you are sufficiently neglectful you could
| probably turn a profit.
|
| > They don't seem to give a crap about the kids who are
| already legally free, and have even gone so far as to
| discourage being open about looking to adopt because
| apparently the state is reluctant to even place kids with you
| at all since their priority is the exact opposite, to reunite
| with the birth parents.
|
| In California it actually used to be illegal for foster
| parents to adopt the children they had fostered, due to the
| conflict of interest. They changed that, and we encountered
| no issues fostering as willing to adopt (and in fact Judges
| would move kids to homes like ours to light a fire under
| birth parents; a "move towards permanency"). However, we were
| told by our agency that we were, under no circumstances, to
| directly raise any objections to reunification with the
| county, but to instead relay through them. Anything that even
| looks like interfering with reunification is a huge no-no.
| gowld wrote:
| I suspect that foster care for non-babies fundamentally can't
| work at the required scale. The best hope is well-funded,
| well-staffed, well-audited orphanages (but call them
| "boarding schools").
| aidenn0 wrote:
| System is moving in the opposite direction. The county I'm
| in banned "group homes" because outcomes are worse in group
| homes, and foster homes will magically appear if we ban
| group homes (they didn't, instead they paid for kids to be
| in group homes in neighboring counties, until enough places
| found loopholes in the ban).
| gpvos wrote:
| https://archive.ph/rexM0
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