[HN Gopher] PowerMac 6100 Upgrade Guide (2000)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       PowerMac 6100 Upgrade Guide (2000)
        
       Author : nickt
       Score  : 59 points
       Date   : 2022-06-12 12:42 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.kan.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.kan.org)
        
       | jnwatson wrote:
       | I paid $3k for a PowerMac 7100 in 1994. I remember paying $1600
       | for an extra 32 MiB RAM around 1996. I also bought L2 cache (an
       | external module back in those days), and then a G3 upgrade.
       | 
       | It lasted me a good 10 years.
        
         | scarface74 wrote:
         | I remember buying 32MB of RAM for my DOS Compatibility card
         | (486Dx/2-66) that was in my 6100/60 for less than $400 in 1996
         | from Best Buy.
         | 
         | My entire 6100/60 with 24MB RAM was around $2500 with the card
         | in 1994 right after the 6100/66 came out.
        
         | em3rgent0rdr wrote:
         | "Cache Upgrades: A 30% speed increase for $15?"
        
         | telesilla wrote:
         | My Powermac 6100 AV, bought second hand for $1500 in 1996 came
         | with RCA connectors, I got it to make music. That purchase
         | kickstarted my career in all things digital. Came with 200MB
         | drive I upgraded to a whopping 2GB. I travelled with it until I
         | got an ibook, which was much more portable for gigs!
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | >> I remember paying $1600 for an extra 32 MiB RAM around 1996
         | 
         | That's odd - I remember memory prices being really low around
         | those times, and my friends and I loaded up our Windows 95
         | machines with 16 or 32MB for $50-$150 when it was on sale
         | 
         | 1996 Best Buy ad for reference:
         | https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/web...
        
         | deltarholamda wrote:
         | >I remember paying $1600 for an extra 32 MiB RAM around 1996
         | 
         | I remember doing exactly this around the same time. Back then,
         | RAM was almost considered a durable good, because RAM prices
         | had remained stable for so long. I thought, "well, this is
         | expensive, but I'll get most of my money back if I ever sell
         | the computer," and this wasn't a completely insane idea at the
         | time.
        
       | ginko wrote:
       | From http://www.kan.org/6100/os.html#macosx
       | 
       | > Mac OS X is the next big thing for the Mac. A fusion of Apple
       | and NeXT technology, OS X is fully native, fully pre-emptive,
       | fully protected and full of the bells, whistles and buzzwords
       | we've been promised since PowerPC first appeared. It supports
       | symmetric multiprocessing, to go along with the multi-G4 machines
       | shipping now and the multi-core CPU's currently under
       | development.
       | 
       | >Sadly, Mac OS X probably will not run on a 6100, no matter what
       | you do to the hardware.
       | 
       | Anyone know why that was? Looks like people got OS X to work on
       | iMac G3's so you'd think that a PowerMac with upgraded G3 and
       | memory should be able to run it. Some other HW/MB feature
       | missing?
       | 
       | edit: This[1] video about upgrading to OS X on an iMac G3
       | mentions the need to update the Mac's firmware so I guess there
       | may not have been a FW upgrade for the 6100.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwTLvhHNnLU
        
         | crest wrote:
         | Afaik MacOS X didn't boot on old world PPC machines with NuBus
         | slots, but 10.2.x can be installed on a PowerMac 9500 with a G3
         | upgrade and with a 32MB PCI Radeon GPU the UI was even usable.
         | It helped that the box was also upgraded with >800MB RAM spread
         | over 12 DIMMs as well as two 10kRPM U160 disks in HW RAID1.
         | Still the slow 50-60MHz PPC60x bus was beyond painful.
        
         | temp0826 wrote:
         | I think it would be possible, but you'd likely need to drop
         | into the open firmware and type in a magic incantation to make
         | the bootloader think it was a supported system (don't ask me to
         | remember exactly what that might be. It was a looong time ago,
         | but I did get both PPC OS X and Darwin to run on an unsupported
         | mac clone that had an upgraded cpu. I remember submitting a
         | posting to resexcellence about it!)
        
         | MiddleEndian wrote:
         | OS X (10.0 - 10.3) worked out of the box on my iMac G3. It was
         | pretty sluggish until 10.3 came out, but I didn't need to do
         | anything tricky like firmware upgrades to get it running.
        
         | winocm wrote:
         | The 6100 does not use a conventional PCI bus.
        
           | kergonath wrote:
           | IIRC a big problem was the CPU. PowerMacs with 603s or 604s
           | were "supported" by XPostFacto, but not the 601, which is why
           | the 7200 could not boot OS X despite not using NuBus. The
           | NuBus Macs also did not use OpenFirmware, contrary to all PCI
           | (and AGP) PowerMacs.
        
           | jamesfmilne wrote:
           | Indeed these systems had NuBus, which was a holdover from the
           | earlier 68k MacII and Quadra machines.
        
             | nier wrote:
             | > The basic requirement for Mac OS X to ever work on a
             | machine is that it have a PowerPC processor, a PCI bus, and
             | Open Firmware. So the earliest PowerPC computers from Apple
             | (e.g. the 6100, 7100, and 8100) are not likely to ever work
             | with Mac OS X.
             | 
             | Source: https://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/Fra
             | mework.cf...
        
         | johndoe0815 wrote:
         | No OS X, but you can run the Mach 3/osfmk-based MkLinux. My
         | 6100 was one if the first in Europe to run it and served as ftp
         | server to distribute MkLinux. Must have been 1996 or 97, I
         | think...
        
           | lateralux wrote:
           | I used Mklinux on a powermac 8100 for 5 years has my home
           | distant ssh and cli box.
        
         | perardi wrote:
         | I believe that Mac OS X only ran on "New World ROM" machines.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_ROM
         | 
         | (Could be wrong about that--that was a long time ago.)
        
       | kerblang wrote:
       | I still have my 6100, tempted to try exploring this. Always felt
       | like that era was the last of the "fun macs" when things weren't
       | all busybody fussy unixy with hi-res gradients and hyperslickness
       | and so forth. The new macs just took the "personal" out of
       | personal computing, as I see it. Take that with a grain of salt,
       | of course.
        
         | linguae wrote:
         | I greatly appreciate the Jobs-era Mac OS X, with its Unix and
         | NeXT heritage; in fact I personally think the high water mark
         | of the Mac from both a software and hardware perspective was
         | the Mac OS X Snow Leopard era. Nowadays I use FreeBSD and
         | Windows, but I would be glad to use a variant of Snow Leopard
         | with HiDPI support, updated browsers, and security patches if
         | such existed.
         | 
         | With that being said, there is something warm-feeling and even
         | whimsical about the classic Mac OS and classic beige Macs. I
         | truly think the Apple Human Interface Guidelines of the 1990s
         | were well written and are timeless recommendations for making
         | great, usable software. I believe designers of today's user-
         | facing software tools should acquaint themselves with a classic
         | Mac running contemporary programs like Microsoft Word 5.1 and
         | the ClarisWorks suite to see great examples of well-designed
         | software. I also like both the System 7 and Platinum themes,
         | with a slight preference toward Platinum. I'm really curious
         | about A/UX, which married the classic Mac OS and Unix, and I'm
         | also curious about Rhapsody, a predecessor to Mac OS X that was
         | based on NeXTSTEP but featured the Platinum theme from Mac OS
         | 8.
        
           | yodsanklai wrote:
           | In what sense recent MacOS are worse than snow leopard?
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | It was at the heyday of the "personal" computer on both sides
         | of the divide; a single upgrade could make your machine
         | _magically_ more capable in ways we don 't really have now.
         | 
         | Adding a new processor could be a _huge_ speed improvement,
         | adding a new graphics card would greatly expand your screen
         | capabilities, etc.
         | 
         | This site alone has a system with a 601 at 60MHz replaced with
         | a G4 at 300 MHz, and RAM from 8MB to 264MB. That's like going
         | from 8GB to 256GB today, just insane difference to how you use
         | the system (and RAM was _much_ faster than the disk back then,
         | so RAM disks made sense, etc).
         | 
         | I remember our last DOS computer had enough RAM that it made
         | sense to RAMdisk most of the most commonly used programs we
         | had, even though it slowed boot up copying them into the RAM
         | disk.
        
         | cmiles74 wrote:
         | I had a 7200 and it never really performed very well. The
         | "software" modem/telephony device was interesting, but the
         | backing software was too crashy. Mostly I remember it seeming
         | slower than the last generation of 68k Quadras; I had one of
         | those on my desk at my day job.
         | 
         | The first generation iMac, on the other hand, I did think was a
         | lot of fun. All of the sudden the UI was responsive and the
         | software was surprisingly reliable.
        
           | tablespoon wrote:
           | > The "software" modem/telephony device was interesting, but
           | the backing software was too crashy.
           | 
           | I had a Mac from that era that sipped with a software modem,
           | and at some point I upgraded to a serial modem for exactly
           | that reason.
        
         | haroldp wrote:
         | I was thinking it was the end of the era of fun websites too.
         | That is overstated, but...
        
         | cesaref wrote:
         | Yeah, good memories of that era. I had a 7500, which was a very
         | upgradeable machine, taking lots of memory and CPU (and cache
         | cards - remember them?).
         | 
         | Mine had an annoying beat, like two fans running at slightly
         | different speeds. Apart from that, it was a great machine, and
         | ran Logic really well which was it's main job.
        
         | pcurve wrote:
         | Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Some people here get so
         | touchy over post next jobs era macs.
         | 
         | I do disagree with your timing though. I think the best of
         | times was in the early to mid 90s. With radius graphics card.
         | Daystar accelerators on Nubus slots. For some macs, separate
         | math coprocessor. Asante network card. APS and LaCie external
         | scsi hard drive and Daisy chaining them. Adb port devices.
         | Nostalgia!!
        
           | kerblang wrote:
           | Actually I bought my 6100 somewhere around '93-'95. I know it
           | was before 1996.
           | 
           | But I'm not actually saying the 6100 was "the best of"
           | anything; it was the bottom-of-the-line cheapest one you
           | could get at the time. I'm really just talking about pre-OSX.
           | The early Macs were and are fun too.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Over the weekend, some of us old timers were reminiscing
           | about the bad old days of the early Avid NLEs. The damn chain
           | of ADB dongles to enable the software and various plugins
           | that to the uninitiated looked a lot like S-Video and would
           | ultimately get plugged into the wrong port, bending pins
           | ruining the dongle, then being told by support that a dongle
           | could not be replaced. Striping 7 full height media drives in
           | a SCSI enclosure just to get enough bandwidth to record the
           | video, but not enough for audio that got saved to yet another
           | drive.
           | 
           | Also, SCSI chains requiring terminators (or not), and
           | internal SCSI drives with the jumpers in the wrong pins.
           | Original Wacom tablets built like tanks. 21" CRT monitors
           | that weighed a bazillion pounds, had half-a-mile of bezels,
           | and sitting 2 side by side caused EMI so the images were
           | disturbed. ProTools requiring DSP boards that numbered more
           | than slots in the computer. Expansion chasis to handle all of
           | the extras. All now outpowered by your damn social media
           | device, er, smart phone
        
             | azalemeth wrote:
             | Happy memories indeed. I always thought ADB was ahead of
             | its time and although it really wasn't hot-pluggable it
             | was, in fact, almost hot-pluggable. Much moreso than the AT
             | PC keyboard connector at any rate. And it just made so much
             | sense having one connector for all input peripherals,
             | unlike DB-9 mice and DIN keyboards!
             | 
             | I also fondly remember DIP switches being added onto SCSI
             | external drives along with their block-like 50O resistor
             | terminations. Woe betide you if you pushed the case back
             | against the wall and flipped one of those mid-write...
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Nothing about that first generation of Power Mac reminds me of
         | "fun". It reminds me more of "kernel panics right before CD-R
         | is finalized" or "kernel panics whenever the network cable is
         | unplugged" or sometimes "kernel panics whenever any network
         | cable anywhere on campus is unplugged" and quite frequently
         | "kernel panics if I try to scan a slide" oh and from time to
         | time "installing MS Office from 60 floppies is a bit of a
         | chore". Really cannot think of anything in my personal history
         | of computing that was less fun than a mid-90s Mac.
        
           | lateralux wrote:
           | They were wonderful computers for graphic software like Adobe
           | Illustrator/Photoshop and QuarkXpress, video editing or music
           | recording.
        
             | smm11 wrote:
             | I always wondered if Apple/Be could have had OS X running
             | faster than Apple/NeXT did.
             | 
             | The excuse was always that Be had no software. But NeXT
             | stuff getting into OS X wasn't exactly perfect. Part of me
             | thinks that at least one or two looked at getting A/UX or
             | MAE or something on top of Be, just like Blue Box or
             | whatever got onto OS X.
        
           | tambourine_man wrote:
           | There were no kernel panics back then. There was hardly a
           | kernel per se until 8.6.
           | 
           | We had "Sorry, a system error occurred" bombs. It was "funny"
           | that those errors remained in 1 bit color even though the
           | entire system had full color support for decades.
        
           | sharikous wrote:
           | I am not even sure there was something that you could call a
           | kernel in that time.
           | 
           | Apple was failing in their quest to secure a modern successor
           | to MacOS 7.
           | 
           | It sure was a lot of fun looking at what they threw at it,
           | and MacOS 9.2 was polished for sure. But without MacOS X,
           | MacOS would have gone the way of BeOS and Amiga...
        
             | theodric wrote:
             | Still a pity it didn't literally go the way of BeOS by
             | acquiring Be, like might have happened. I used both
             | NeXTstep on 68k and BeOS on Intel, and much preferred the
             | latter. NeXTstep was a crawling horror of abstractions,
             | which might have made it more portable, but also made it
             | clunky.
             | 
             | Anyone else remember having a top-spec iMac G4 in 2002 that
             | couldn't even scroll or resize a window smoothly? Pathetic,
             | and painfully slow. I gave up on 10.1.x and just ran Yellow
             | Dog for about a year until I managed to lay my hands on a
             | copy of 10.2, which was marginally better, but still much
             | slower than Linux at the time. The iLamp was a wonderful
             | machine, but very much let down by its intended OS.
        
               | musicale wrote:
               | Reacquiring Steve Jobs was probably worth it for Apple.
               | ;-)
               | 
               | In 2002, Macworld was happy with the iMac G4 performance:
               | 
               | "Generally, using the iMac was a pleasure. It was speedy
               | and responsive in most cases, although the Mac OS X
               | version of iMovie was more sluggish than we'd expect from
               | a G4-based machine."
               | 
               | PC Magazine gave it 4 stars and an Editor's Choice award.
               | Readers gave it a 5 star member rating.
        
       | haroldp wrote:
       | Ouch, nostalgia poisoning. I had a 6100AV with a Maxpower G3
       | card, back in the day.
        
         | sjm-lbm wrote:
         | I never had a 6100 (honestly never even had a Mac pre-OSX), but
         | I'm getting a massive amount of nostalgia poisoning from just
         | the website. For most of the 90s, probably into the 2000s for a
         | bit, finding a "fan page" like this was like striking gold. I
         | feel like the equivalent today is some mix of finding a well-
         | written Wiki page and a well-moderated subreddit on some topic
         | or product you are interested in, but the personal touch on
         | pages like this is somehow cooler.
         | 
         | It makes me feel somewhat good to read this page and realize
         | how charming I still find it.
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | Me too--I inherited a 6100 from my employer and used this site
         | quite a bit.
         | 
         | I bet it's still in a box somewhere in the basement... (checks
         | weekend calendar)
        
       | spicybeef wrote:
       | I love this site. I just recently used it to pick out some RAM
       | upgrades for my own PM 6100/60MHz upgraded with a MAXpowr G3
       | 266MHz CPU upgrade. It also helped me confirm that a 7100 video
       | card I had in my parts bin could be used on it as well!
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | OS 8 and 9 were unreliable at using the internet because unlike
       | Windows or Linux it was not a 32 bit OS with real memory
       | protection. I remember various releases that struggled with the
       | problem, especially they added a whole bunch of locks to protect
       | memory structures which slowed the machine down dramatically.
       | 
       | Classic Mac OS was designed to handle events raining in from the
       | keyboard and mouse and was able to run on the 128k classic Mac
       | but Apple was in serious trouble in the 1990s until MacOS X which
       | was competitive with the competition.
        
         | tambourine_man wrote:
         | It didn't have memory protection but it was 32 bit from the
         | start and most apps were "32 bit clean" by version 7.5 or so.
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | To memory what really messed with OS stability when browsing
         | the internet on System 7.5.3 (the first Mac OS I used) up
         | through 9.2.2 were browser plugins.
         | 
         | Earlier on, Java applets were by far the most notorious
         | troublemakers in this realm. I remember as a kid bumping around
         | the internet on a Performa 6400 with Netscape looking for
         | online games, and that machine could never go long without the
         | browser crashing or the dreaded "Sorry, a system error
         | occurred." dialog popping up after browsing a few pages with
         | applets.
         | 
         | Shockwave and Flash were reasonably stable for the most part,
         | until 3D Shockwave games started appearing... those were almost
         | as messy as applets were.
        
           | GeekyBear wrote:
           | > To memory what really messed with OS stability when
           | browsing the internet on System 7.5.3 (the first Mac OS I
           | used) up through 9.2.2 were browser plugins.
           | 
           | OS Extensions in general were a source of instability. It's
           | like kernel extensions on Macs or kernel drivers on Windows
           | today, there is no safety net and coding errors can take down
           | the entire system.
           | 
           | You really needed to weigh the reputation of a company for
           | stability before adding an extension from them.
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | >> unlike Windows or Linux it was not a 32 bit OS with real
         | memory protection.
         | 
         | Don't forget that until Windows 2000, neither was Windows
        
           | icedchai wrote:
           | How's that? Earlier versions of Windows NT had memory
           | protection (starting with NT 3.1 in 1993.)
        
             | mig39 wrote:
             | I guess the average consumer was on Windows 95 or 98,
             | though, right?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | hedgehog wrote:
               | I ran NT4 on my laptop in the late 90s and remember it
               | was somewhat unusual. A little clunky, my memory is some
               | common things like changing screen resolution required a
               | reboot, but it was more reliable and responsive overall.
               | Most people stuck with the 95/98/Me progression due to
               | cost (2000 wanted more memory than Me and partially for
               | that reason Me was default preload on most PCs).
        
               | hoistbypetard wrote:
               | I ran NT4 on my Thinkpad briefly around 98 or 99... it
               | _sucked_. Power management didn 't work at all. USB
               | didn't work at all. The video driver was awful. The
               | built-in ethernet didn't work; you had to use a PCMCIA
               | card to get networking at all.
               | 
               | Essentially, it turned the laptop into an under-powered
               | desktop with a built-in UPS and slow video.
               | 
               | These things were generally better by the time 2000 came
               | around... but NT4 was never any good on my laptop. (And
               | at the bank where I worked when I graduated in 1999, it
               | was terrible on those as well. The senior managers'
               | laptops were the only systems in the bank allowed to use
               | 98.)
        
               | GeekyBear wrote:
               | Indeed. Back in the days when RAM was hideously
               | expensive, Windows NT needed too much RAM for the home
               | PCs of the era.
               | 
               | Also, Windows 9x had plug and play and the NT family did
               | not.
               | 
               | Most home users didn't switch over to the NT family until
               | Windows XP.
        
               | icedchai wrote:
               | Probably! I was in college at the time. All the fellow
               | nerds either ran Linux or NT.
        
           | twoodfin wrote:
           | Windows 95 absolutely had memory protection and preemptive
           | multitasking, at least for "native" Win32 applications.
           | 
           | System 7 had neither.
        
             | tablespoon wrote:
             | > Windows 95 absolutely had memory protection and
             | preemptive multitasking, at least for "native" Win32
             | applications.
             | 
             | I know it had preemptive multitasking, but did it have
             | memory protection? I didn't use Windows in that era, but my
             | recollection is it didn't.
             | 
             | I do remember all the apologetics for cooperative
             | multitasking, because that's what Macs were stuck with so
             | it had to be justified.
        
             | musicale wrote:
             | > Windows 95 absolutely had memory protection and
             | preemptive multitasking, at least for "native" Win32
             | applications.
             | 
             | Apparently the first 1MB of RAM was mapped for
             | compatibility with DOS and 16-bit Windows, which meant that
             | the common bug of writing through a null/zero pointer could
             | easily crash the system.
        
         | haroldp wrote:
         | I mean, I worked for years as a professional web developer on
         | MacOS 8 and 9 machines. The stability wasn't great, but it was
         | fine.
        
           | Cockbrand wrote:
           | Same history here, but to be honest, a good day with Mac OS
           | 7/8/9 was literally defined by having no forced reboots due
           | to a crash. Especially somewhat heavy multitasking with
           | Photoshop, BBEdit, Netscape and Eudora usually lead to a
           | system crash once every few hours. You can tell the seasoned
           | Mac user by them having seconds enabled on the menu bar
           | clock, so they can see whether the machine is still doing
           | anything :)
           | 
           | With later hardware and software, especially G3/G4 with Mac
           | OS 9.x, the machine crashed less often, but usually still did
           | at least a few times per week.
        
             | icedchai wrote:
             | Netscape, in general, was incredibly unstable. I remember
             | 3.x crashing every half hour.
        
             | haroldp wrote:
             | > Photoshop, BBEdit, Netscape and Eudora
             | 
             | This exact combo, plus MacSSH, Ircle and SoundJam, for
             | years.
        
               | Cockbrand wrote:
               | Of course, I only mentioned the essentials :) I wasn't
               | much of an IRC person, and I remember using a different
               | SSH client, but don't recall which one. Also, Fetch.
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | > _Same history here, but to be honest, a good day with
             | MacOS 7 /8/9 was literally defined by having no forced
             | reboots due to a crash._
             | 
             | I recall having unexpected reboots every few days (except
             | on systems with complicated SCSI chains, what a nightmare),
             | but my bar for system extensions was also unreasonably
             | high. I remember feeling a little sick seeing multiple rows
             | of extensions when friends restarted their Macs.
        
             | scarface74 wrote:
             | You could have stopped and started your list with
             | "Netscape" causing crashes. IE for Mac was a "glass of ice
             | water in hell" compared to Netscape.
        
               | Cockbrand wrote:
               | Yes, for a while IE was the best browser for Mac, not
               | just in terms of stability. But before that time, we had
               | to make do with Netscape, as there wasn't really any
               | worthwhile competition.
        
               | duskwuff wrote:
               | For a long time, the Mac version of IE 5 was one of the
               | best browsers on the market. It used a completely
               | different renderer from the Windows version; as a result,
               | its CSS support was quite good. It even supported
               | transparent PNGs, which the Windows version of IE
               | struggled with for years.
        
           | cmclaughlin wrote:
           | I recall OS 8 crashing often and loosing lots of work. Back
           | then I was doing graphic design work and just getting into
           | web programming. Photoshop, Illustrator and QuarkXpress all
           | day with those apps crashing unexpectedly. MS Word for Mac
           | was awful back then too. OS 9 was much better and Windows
           | 2000 was actually really good. It's great that that sort of
           | instability is a thing of the past!
        
             | haroldp wrote:
             | "Save early, save often!"
             | 
             | As another respondent also remembered it, I would probably
             | get less than one crash a day. Windows 95 had it's own
             | (multifarious) problems. I was maintaining servers with
             | _years_ of uptime and definitely looking forward to OSX. :)
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _OS 8 and 9 were unreliable at using the internet because
         | unlike Windows or Linux it was not a 32 bit OS with real memory
         | protection._
         | 
         | This isn't my recollection at all, although the lack of
         | protected memory on "Classic Mac OS" means that you would've
         | _personally_ experienced unreliable anything if you were also
         | running poorly-written extensions or other software on your
         | system.
         | 
         | System 7 (1991) was the first 32-bit version of Classic Mac OS,
         | and Internet Explorer for Macintosh was very advanced for its
         | time. Classic Mac OS had a healthy browser ecosystem which also
         | included Cyberdog, iCab, Netscape, Opera, and WannaBe (a text
         | browser).
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Woz has an interesting section in his book "iWoz" regarding
           | System 7 stability before/after Internet Explorer was
           | installed. A fresh install of System 7 would operate just
           | fine, but as soon as IE was installed, weird things would
           | happen. It's definitely worth reading if you haven't already.
        
             | Lammy wrote:
             | I was curious and looked up iWoz, and it seems to be a
             | little mixed-up on the dates of things since it talks about
             | using iCab two years before it was available: https://datas
             | sette.nyc3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/livros/iw... (Book
             | page 296)
             | 
             | "That first day I used iCab instead of IE, I had no
             | crashes. Not a single one. Hmm." "I could never convince
             | Apple. This was such a big lament for me at the time. I
             | couldn't convince anyone that it wasn't the Mac OS that was
             | at fault. Then one day Gil Amelio told me that Apple--in
             | addition to avoiding excess production and inventory and
             | keeping expenses down--was going to buy a new operating
             | system."
             | 
             | The NeXT merger was publicly announced in February 1997, so
             | that private conversation with Amelio about their intent
             | most likely would have been some time in 1996:
             | https://www.tech-insider.org/mac/research/1997/0207.html
             | 
             | iCab, on the other hand, didn't ship until February 1999 as
             | a time-bombed beta: https://web.archive.org/web/20020305110
             | 041/http://advergence...
             | 
             | I wonder if he was experiencing instability due to Code
             | Fragment Manager instead of IE itself? Mac IE was even late
             | shipping for 68K Macs due to problems with CFM-68K.
             | 
             | "Finally, Internet Explorer has been hit by the CFM-68K
             | bug. Microsoft was on the cutting edge in adopting the Code
             | Fragment Manager for 68K Macs, and due to the well-known
             | bug in CFM support on 68K Macs, Internet Explorer is
             | currently only available for PowerPC-based Macs. Apple
             | should have this bug fixed soon, though, and Microsoft
             | plans on releasing a 68K version at that time." --
             | https://www.macobserver.com/reviews/ie3.shtml
             | 
             | CFM-68K was infamously unstable until version 4.0 shipped
             | in April 1997, and even the PowerPC-native version saw a
             | bunch of improvements around that time, so this lines up
             | with a 1996/1997 timeframe in iWoz if one ignores the
             | anachronistic iCab story:
             | 
             | "A revised Code Fragment Manager that helps some large,
             | PowerPC-native applications launch faster and enables some
             | applications to launch in low memory situations" --
             | https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/apple-releases-
             | syste... (September 1996)
             | 
             | "In late November 1996, Apple announced a bug in the
             | CFM-68K Runtime Enabler extension. This bug could cause
             | random crashes and hangs, resulting in application
             | instability and potential loss of data. Because of the
             | potential seriousness of these problems, Apple recommended
             | that customers disable the extension. Also, Mac OS 7.6
             | would prevent the extension from loading. Mac OS 7.6 does
             | support the the 4.0 version of the extension." --
             | https://macgui.com/kb/article/502 (May 1997)
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | > Classic Mac OS had a healthy browser ecosystem which also
           | included Cyberdog, iCab, Netscape, Opera, and WannaBe
           | 
           | Ehh...
           | 
           | Cyberdog was never widely used. It depended on the OpenDoc
           | framework, which most users didn't even have installed, and
           | was only available _as a beta_ for a year or so. It was never
           | a serious contender.
           | 
           | iCab was a latecomer -- it was released in 1999, long after
           | most of the mainstream browsers. It was used by a few people,
           | but was never particularly popular either.
           | 
           | I have never even _heard_ of WannaBe. Based on what I see
           | online, it looks pretty obscure.
        
             | Angostura wrote:
             | I absolutely _loved_ Cyberdog. My browser and e-mail client
             | of choice
        
               | GeekyBear wrote:
               | Having fully indexed instantaneous search for my emails
               | in 1996 was absolutely living in the future.
               | 
               | Especially if you subscribed to a lot of mailing lists
               | and went looking for information on something specific
               | that you knew you had read, but didn't know where.
        
           | asveikau wrote:
           | Seems like they conflated 32-bit with lack of memory
           | protection.
           | 
           | (Tangent: IIRC there were Macs where the CPU had a 32 bit
           | pointer width but you could only use 24 bits of address
           | space. And sometimes software would work on this assumption
           | and break with a full 32 bits. But that's neither here nor
           | there.)
           | 
           | But in addition to lack of memory protection, cooperative
           | multi-tasking was also a big problem. It was a pretty common
           | experience to see something do intense work rendering a
           | progress bar and the rest of the system would slow down. IIRC
           | this made having something like a web browser open sometimes
           | painful.
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | I had a 6100/60. It was one of the most significant personal
       | computer upgrades I'd ever done- the Rosetta that ran 680x0 code
       | on PPC was impressive. This was also around the time I think
       | Apple decided to start to stay processor-agnostic by starting the
       | LLVM project when OS X/Rhapsody became a thing
        
         | azinman2 wrote:
         | LLVM was Chris Lattner's graduate work. Apple didn't start it.
         | He finished his PhD and got hired by Apple in 2005, well past
         | when Max OS X came out. For a longtime the toolchain for OS X
         | (and iOS) was GCC.
        
           | hedgehog wrote:
           | I believe the first use of LLVM in MacOS was the OpenGL
           | fallback shader compiler in 10.5 released in 2007.
        
         | jonhohle wrote:
         | LLVM was started far after the 6100 and, afaik, didn't move to
         | an Apple backed project until 2005[0].
         | 
         | Apple did have "fat" binaries during the classic Mac OS
         | transition, and interestingly enough, so did NeXT. The
         | implementations were very different, however, and OS X
         | eventually got the NeXT implementation.
         | 
         | 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LLVM
        
           | pmarreck wrote:
           | ah thanks for the clarification
        
         | scarface74 wrote:
         | The first generation 68K emulator was far from impressive. It
         | ran 68k code on my 6100/60 slower than my souped up LCII with a
         | 68030/40Mhz card.
         | 
         | Connectix's Speed Doubler had a much better emulator.
        
       | johnklos wrote:
       | There are no 256 meg 72 pin SIMMs. The page linked to from this
       | site says that the author was mistaken, and they were 168 pin
       | SIMMs.
       | 
       | While 512 meg SIMMs are possible, they'd be custom. Otherwise, a
       | 256 meg SIMM would be a single bank, which wouldn't make much
       | sense.
        
       | ctime wrote:
       | > p.s. Use Netscape, or be viciously mocked, taunted and
       | ridiculed.
       | 
       | This is how we used to talk to each other.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | pcurve wrote:
         | In the 90s some of us derogatorily called it Nutscrape because
         | l33t folks should be using Lynx. Good old days.
        
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