[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Is there a TV on the market without "Smart T...
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Ask HN: Is there a TV on the market without "Smart TV" features?
Or is there at least one where Smart mode can be turned off
verifiably AND it doesn't keep enticing you to turn it on by
withholding ease of use or some convenience feature until you just
give up?
Author : nborwankar
Score : 198 points
Date : 2022-06-11 18:28 UTC (4 hours ago)
| undersuit wrote:
| What about getting a smart TV that respects you, because you paid
| a premium.
|
| I have a Sharp/NEC c651q. The Raspberry Pi 3 Compute Module in it
| lets me watch media on the internet(newer models will accept the
| RPi4 CM).
|
| It has no integration with Netflix, Amazon, Apple, etc.
| account-5 wrote:
| This sounds right up my street. My crappy smart TV is the
| worse. I went searching and this warning stood out:
|
| > Legal Disclaimer To California Residents >WARNING: This
| product can expose you to chemicals including Styrene and
| Formaldehyde (gas), which are known to the State of California
| to cause cancer, and Lead, which is known to the State of
| California to cause cancer and birth defects or other
| reproductive harm. For more information go to
| www.p65warnings.ca.gov
| stormbrew wrote:
| Oh this is really interesting. I had no idea this was a thing.
| Does the compute module need to run anything special or does it
| just behave as an input separate from any HDMI or whatever
| other inputs on the back?
| undersuit wrote:
| I can install some tools maintained on a Github repo that
| help integrate the Pi with the TV: https://github.com/SharpNE
| CDisplaySolutions/nec_rpi_config_t...
| kulesh wrote:
| https://pointerclicker.com/best-dumb-tv/ Search "dumb tv" at hn,
| there's a post with 600+ comments and tons of option
| Hippocrates wrote:
| Just don't connect it to your WiFi, and instead use an Apple TV.
| It's far better than any built-in UI and I like the airplay
| integration as well.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| A TV is just a monitor with a TV tuner. Right now, TV tuners and
| smart features are almost universally found together. But if you
| are using an external video source (especially if it's not OTA tv
| in the first place, so you don't need a tuner), you can just use
| a monitor (or "commercial display"), instead of a "TV".
| Fezzik wrote:
| Buy a TCL panel and never connect it to the internet. They are
| technically marketed as Smart TVs but there is no requirement
| that you connect them, and there are zero prompts or limits if
| you don't. I've been using them for years and love them,
| primarily for the stupidly simple remotes and UI.
| walrus01 wrote:
| there's often a reason TCLs are very cheap, however, the 55" 4K
| for sale at costco for $280 right now is fine if you only ever
| use it in a dark room, but even when cranked up to 100%
| brightness is near unusable in a sunny room when a samsung at
| 70% brightness is just fine.
| gruez wrote:
| I was in the market for a TV a few years ago and after doing
| some research I concluded that quite a few of the best/bang
| models were from TCL. Of course, they weren't the bottom of
| the barrel models, and you have to do your homework ahead of
| time.
| Fezzik wrote:
| I've got a 55" 4k set and I definitely don't have that
| problem - I live in the Oregon high desert, where we get a
| ton of sun, and with my set located about 8' from a 9' x 16'
| picture window I have never had trouble seeing even dark
| movies, a la Blade Runner, midday.
| djcapelis wrote:
| If you haven't yet, try turning on (or up) the micro contrast
| feature in the picture/display settings. Won't solve
| everything, but can make a lot of dark scenes in a bright
| room a lot clearer to watch.
| kwatsonafter wrote:
| I'm really sickened after reading this thread that the basic
| answer here is, "no."
| t0bia_s wrote:
| Not true, author just asks for a monitor, not TV.
| PontifexMinimus wrote:
| If you live in the UK a Freeview USB stick might do what you
| want, e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/August-Freeview-Tuner-Stick-
| DVB-T20...
| xfitm3 wrote:
| Commercial panels are a great option, although, can be more
| expensive.
| FunnyBadger wrote:
| I simply have NEVER connected the TV directly to the Internet - I
| have HDMI from other devices I trust more connected but that's
| it. I don't really watch any broadcast TV - instead it's either
| my own tape/DVD content or internet content available from other
| devices.
|
| There are enough ethical violations by Samsung to NEVER trust
| them when it comes to internet anything. So just omit the
| connection.
|
| Basically treat any TV today as a monitor and nothing more. Never
| make a buying decision based on any feature that isn't
| specifically monitor-related (e.g. only resolution matters; no
| other whiz-bang features should enter into the decision).
| somat wrote:
| I like to run a public wifi access point. lately all it appears
| to be doing is letting the neighbors samsung tv phone home.
|
| _sigh_ sorry about that, this is why we can 't have nice
| things.
| huhtenberg wrote:
| I have this Sony TV and it can be used cleanly without any Smart
| features or connecting it to the Internet. I turn it on, use the
| "input" button on remote control to switch between different HDMI
| ports and that's it. Haven't been exposed to any Smart features,
| nags, etc. for as long as I remember.
|
| https://www.sony.com/ng/electronics/televisions/a9g-series
| tlrobinson wrote:
| More important to me than lack of "smart" features (as long as it
| is functional without using them or connecting to the internet)
| is responsiveness to user input. I just want a TV I can quickly
| turn on/off and change volume and input.
|
| My current Vizio is extremely sluggish for some reason.
|
| Maybe that's correlated with smart features...
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| It's correlated with input latency of the TV. Your tv may have
| a "gaming" setup option, that will decrease latency to a
| reasonable level. rtings.com has a lot of make/model-specific
| docs on this.
| t0bia_s wrote:
| Yes, it's called a monitor.
| Koshkin wrote:
| Not for long, a wave of "smart monitors" is already on its way.
| tech234a wrote:
| In the US, Best Buy still sells a few decent non-smart TVs under
| their Insignia store brand, for example:
| https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-43-class-n10-series-le...
| donohoe wrote:
| I think the alternative question is:
|
| Is there a TV on the market that is easy to convert into a dumb
| TV?
|
| For example; I am happy to use just Apple TV. Is there a low-risk
| way to cripple my TCL so all it does is allow for input via Apple
| TV and not run other process?
| chippytea wrote:
| When I received my TV I took it out of it's box removed 12 screws
| on the back and unplugged the wifi module. Now I just have it
| connected to my old laptop running linux with a bluetooth
| keyboard.
| thefourthchime wrote:
| It's expensive, but if you get an AppleTV with the new remotes
| you can control the power/volume from that. Get any TV you like
| and never set it up, switch it to an HDMI input, and put the
| remote in a drawer.
|
| You could also do the same with FireTV, Chrome, or Roku, but
| those all have ads.
| giantg2 wrote:
| This has been brought up several times on here. Maybe you can use
| the search to find those similar questions.
|
| One of the suggestions I remember seeing is to buy a large
| display/monitor instead of a TV. I don't remember the specifics.
| jancsika wrote:
| > Maybe you can use the search to find those similar questions.
|
| But the answers are probably out of date by now.
|
| E.g., my answer about buying a cheapo Spectre from Walmart--
| that one has been out of stock for at least two of the several
| times this topic has been brought up now.
| aviditas wrote:
| Walmart stocks them during November for shopping season. The
| sceptre tvs are my go to for large viewing needs. If you are
| into perfect picture quality, it takes some settings tweaking
| to get to tolerable but in my opinion is ideal for just
| normal TV watching and video games.
| andrewf wrote:
| Here's one from this week, but I don't think this is the most
| price sensitive option -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957
| mtmail wrote:
| "Ask HN: Are there any 4K "dumb" televisions?"
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29382643
| walrus01 wrote:
| Just don't ever give it the wifi password. Drive the TV from a
| PS4/PS4, xbox series X or home theatre PC. Use the
| youtube/netflix/amazon video/whatever client software on those
| platforms.
|
| I have a thousand times more confidence that microsoft or sony
| will keep their operating system patched and free from zero days
| than some random OS on a TV. And at least they're big enough that
| their telemetry and data collection practices are documented.
|
| Yes, it's true you can't get much use out of an xbox series x
| without an internet connection, but at least you know what you're
| getting yourself into in advance.
| foresto wrote:
| > Just don't ever give it the wifi password.
|
| Unfortunately, that won't stop it from using (local or drive-
| by) open networks if it wants to, nor will it signal to
| manufacturers that some of us don't want internet-connected
| TVs.
|
| If stuck with a smart TV, I would remove or disable the radio
| module. If buying new, I would look at computer/gaming
| monitors, commercial displays, a few lesser-known models/brands
| (e.g. Sceptre), and projectors.
| gruez wrote:
| >Unfortunately, that won't stop it from using (local or
| drive-by) open networks if it wants to,
|
| Unfortunately that's a rumor that can't be substantiated.
| foresto wrote:
| You seem to be confusing "what it can do" with "what it
| currently does". My comment contains no rumor or
| speculation.
| mattnewton wrote:
| You may need to explicitly opt out somehow or connect the tv to
| a dummy network that blocks all traffic. I am having trouble
| finding the source on google again but I remember reading about
| some tv manufacturers automatically scanning for and connecting
| to open internet connections to update and upload telemetry
| data even when no Wi-Fi network was provided.
| gruez wrote:
| >I am having trouble finding the source on google again but I
| remember reading about some tv manufacturers automatically
| scanning for and connecting to open internet connections to
| update and upload telemetry data even when no Wi-Fi network
| was provided.
|
| To my knowledge I can't find any reliable first-hand accounts
| of this happening. It's all pseudonymous internet commenters
| claiming it's happening, or tech news websites reposting said
| claims. For a phenomena that should be so easy to reproduce
| (all you need is a smart TV plus a laptop with wireshark),
| the absence of reliable evidence should be used as evidence
| against its existence. It's in the same category as "facebook
| is secretly eavesdroping on your conversations".
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| > Just don't ever give it the wifi password
|
| This works for now but Amazon is already working on a way to
| share messages from devices through echo dots etc in the area.
| Even your neighbors'.
|
| It's intended precisely for this purpose :( To capture days
| from those trying to stay under the radar. It's called
| sidewalk.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if the next iteration of TVs will
| take ads over a data signal over OTA deals with TV stations
| and display localized ads in programming and in their apps.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| It's possible but it would be one way in most locations.
| But yeah I'm sure it'll be possible. I have it on my list
| to look for ways to block Amazon sidewalk by the way.
|
| Personally I don't even have cable TV. I never watch live
| TV anymore. I get all my news from the web (I never liked
| watching TV for it) and shows I just download or stream.
| bradknowles wrote:
| They're going to get more aggressive about putting LTE/5G
| SIMs into the devices, maybe as eSIMs. That will make it a
| lot harder to disable their remote monitoring functions.
| monkeybutton wrote:
| As a Canadian, I'm wondering what would happen if I popped
| across the border and bought a TV in the US. Would it still
| connect? Are they paying roaming charges or do they have a
| plan that covers all of NA?
| walrus01 wrote:
| All the Vancouver Canadians buying stuff at the
| Bellingham Costco may be the first to find out.
| walrus01 wrote:
| the equipment will be glued shut too, so if you want to
| remove the antenna you'll have to take a dremel to the back
| of the casing and cut out a rectangle in a specific spot so
| you can snip the small 50 ohm coax going to the LTE antenna
| too... it'll happen.
| bradknowles wrote:
| We will have to depend on iFixit to tell us what
| components are where on the motherboard so that we can
| adequately disable them.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| good luck with that strategy here in rural NM. There isn't
| any cell phone reception for several miles in every
| direction around here.
|
| Wait, what's that? You say there's not many people living
| in such places. Man, how to harsh my mellow.
| barrysteve wrote:
| It's going to come to hardware hacks and Faraday caging our
| houses to maintain personal control over the devices we
| purchase. Houses will have to behave like firewalls and you
| whitelist the device types you want to communicate with by
| explicitly piping them in, rather than the poor attempt at
| managing networks in software we have at the moment.
| enos_feedler wrote:
| I want a dumb tv but with one smart feature: the ability to
| download software emulations of these terrible hdmi sticks so I
| don't have to spend $35+ on each one. Imagine a tv with no ports
| but the ability to pull the souls of these roku, fire, google tv,
| apple tv and probably a microsoft one soon.
|
| I want the tv to manage all of my bluetooth connections and hot
| swap to the appropriate "OS" when i reach for each bluetooth
| remote/controller.
|
| This minimizes the role of the tv itself to a thin layer of
| sensor/peripheral management and routing the video feed to the
| oppropriate OS
| cortesoft wrote:
| Sounds like you want a computer
| downrightmike wrote:
| plex
| vatys wrote:
| That sounds like a smart TV, or at least what one should be.
| Like an actually well made, non buggy, secure smart TV.
| michaelmrose wrote:
| All of those devices are another useless layer to select an
| "app" that serves as a client for various streaming services.
| There is no utility to be had from visualizing multiple entire
| OS to run their respective nearly identical apps and a unique
| but useless settings and app switcher gui.
|
| You can experience an actual decrease in complexity simply by
| getting a device that supports the streaming services desired
| and reducing the "smart" TV to the dumb duty of displaying the
| content that comes in via the device's input.
| Beta-7 wrote:
| There are TVs, here most are Chinese white label brands, that
| instead of using Android TV just have a microcontroller running
| Android on it. In fact I've installed Android on a Raspberry pi
| and the experience was literally the same. There's no smart
| features unless you select the input to Smart TV (which i assume
| is some internal HDMI interface renamed to Smart TV on the UI)
| foogazi wrote:
| I have a TCL with Roku that I was able to turn into a dumb
| display for my AppleTV
|
| Turned off networking and did factory reset
|
| The biggest annoyance was the Roku "smart" remote needing new
| batteries every couple of weeks
| jrm4 wrote:
| A thing they seem to go out of their way to hide:
|
| TCL + Roku TVs (and probably other models?) have one physical
| button that you can use to turn on and off and change inputs.
| It's well-hidden, under the center logo.
| aviditas wrote:
| My roku remote finally died after consuming an obscene amount
| of batteries over the years. RCA has a roku compatible
| universal remote. Doesn't have the headphone jack or voice
| assist but I have yet to replace the batteries so it's a net
| win.
| toolchange wrote:
| neilv wrote:
| I've just started shopping for a dumb TV/monitor that's 4K, HDR,
| maybe 35-55 inches, built-in good-enough speakers (like my 2009
| Sony Bravia TV), power switch on&off based on HDMI from PS4/PS5
| (for simplicity).
|
| It'd be nice to find genuine, well-informed reviews of dumb-TVs,
| and an up-to-date holistic look at the current options. (Most of
| what I've found so far are sketchy SEO sites, farming random
| Amazon Affiliate kickbacks with low-cost content.)
| samstave wrote:
| If you want this feature, NEVER use a smart TV. Especially VIZIO.
| (Can take screen shots of any screen tied to their network)
|
| LG pipes all visual data back to south korea.
|
| Philips is just incompetent...
|
| So the answer is, decline all TOS agreements, do not ever connect
| the TV to internet, use HDMI inout from external devices (not
| USB)...
|
| ---
|
| And even still, this can't be trusted...
|
| But the fact is, that all the externals (the Rokus, Gbits, fire,
| who cares) -- they are all doing the same tracking.
|
| The benefit though is that all the externals ONLY have access
| (AFAIK at this point) to the stream data/account.
|
| In the case of VIZIO, they are actually watching your literal
| video screen and monitoring the fingerprint of the RGB layout of
| the image on screen in a grid and comparing it to the DB they
| build and ingest against their lib... and if they dont recognize
| it, they can still take offline screenshots and compare those to
| channels they ingest for content outside of cable streams...
|
| Basically at the end of the day, you TV is as much as a source as
| is anything else...
|
| Source.
| rasengan wrote:
| Get a nice Gaming monitor that doesn't do much other than display
| usually and have built in speakers usually.
| sphars wrote:
| One such gaming monitor is the Gigabyte Aorus:
| https://www.gigabyte.com/Monitor/AORUS-FO48U
| clouddrover wrote:
| The solution is to buy a large 4K monitor rather than a TV and
| then control the TV side of it yourself using MythTV or similar:
|
| https://www.mythtv.org/
| unfocused wrote:
| Yes! I've bought many for my old work as we don't allow smart
| tvs.
|
| I bought the Panasonics and never had any issues.
|
| https://na.panasonic.com/us/audio-video-solutions/profession...
|
| Im sure there are other companies. Im on my phone so can't
| research. Look for "digital displays" instead of tv.
|
| Good luck!
| julianwachholz wrote:
| I know them as 'digital signage' or 'hospitality tvs' and they
| do work for their intended use. But they're usually a lot more
| expensive than their consumer counterparts? My guess is they
| are either heavily subsidized and/or built to be powered ON
| 24/7?
| mschuster91 wrote:
| DS displays are built better, yes (usually, they get the top
| yield of panels with the target resolution and in outdoor
| cases also stronger background lighting). The real difference
| however is the explicit guarantee that there will be support
| and spare parts available for anything from 5-10 years or
| that there will be at least a mounting-compatible successor
| model.
|
| Since noise is usually not a factor to be considered, they
| are also usually built with much bigger temperature profiles
| in mind than your consumer indoor TV (e.g. by using cooling
| fans or heating elements) so they can work just as well in
| -20 degC in the winter or at 80 degC in the summer heat.
|
| Also, some of these offer features that consumer displays do
| not offer:
|
| - YUV or SDI inputs
|
| - RS232 remote control / status monitoring
|
| - especially in zero-bezel modules: support for grid
| processing. Basically you have a HDMI/DVI/SDI input and a
| loop output, and you daisy-chain the whole bunch of displays.
| Then you tell each of them to slice and upscale just a
| specific part of the picture.
| langsoul-com wrote:
| Perhaps the use case, companies are willing to shell out more
| than a price concious individual.
| downrightmike wrote:
| The MFG make more money on selling ads to you than you pay
| for the TV.
| michaelmrose wrote:
| This wasn't a business model that was a factor in the
| launch of 1080p high def TVs or the subsequent fall in
| prices.
|
| I don't even recall it being much of a factor in the launch
| of 4K TVs which launched at typically very high prices and
| begun falling in price without ads becoming a big thing.
|
| I think this is just unacceptable greed.
| dehrmann wrote:
| This seems high to me. I'd love to see actual numbers on
| revenue from this type of TV ads.
| adamredwoods wrote:
| Samsung 4k UHD business display (only an example, YMMV):
| https://www.samsung.com/us/business/displays/pro-tv/be-
| serie...
| IgorPartola wrote:
| https://www.newegg.com/Commercial-TVs/SubCategory/ID-3672
|
| Try this. You'll likely pay more but your TV won't be subsidized
| by ads and such.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Many displays made for this market have atrocious picture
| quality and no video processing features because their target
| customers don't care about them, they only care about
| brightness and longevity.
| IgorPartola wrote:
| Wait so you want consumer features? Well there is the Samsung
| Smart TV we can offer you...
| jeffbee wrote:
| I don't know what "consumer features" means but many
| commercial signage displays lack any kind of video
| processing, like de-interlace, pull-down, noise reduction,
| sharpen, etc.
| bscphil wrote:
| Unfortunately most if not all of the displays I see here don't
| meet the minimum baseline at _any_ price. I don 't see any OLED
| options, and none of them appears to advertise support for
| Dolby Vision HDR. HDR probably has no point for advertising
| purposes, and OLED might actually be a negative if it reduces
| the light output capability of the screen. You can't use the
| full contrast range in a brightly let room anyway.
|
| These days you can get a 65 inch LG OLED TV for under $1500.
| Sure, you can infer that it's $500 cheaper than it "should" be
| because of their expected advertising earnings over the
| lifetime of the device (although that seems really high), but I
| see no "dumb display" options even in the $3000 range.
| tootie wrote:
| Yeah, these are commercial signage displays. Compared to
| average retail models, these tend to have thicker, sturdier
| (and much heavier) housings, higher brightness, more resistance
| to burn-in, better heat dissipation and a dizzying array of
| inputs. Most of which is entirely superfluous for home use, but
| they can actually be worth the money. They're also typically
| sold without stands but will have VESA mount points.
| danachow wrote:
| As far as burn in - even most newer consumer displays have
| similar anti burn features.
|
| And notably those LG signage TVs still run webOS.
| GoodJokes wrote:
| walterbell wrote:
| Some LG TVs, which are based on WebOS, can be jailbroken,
| https://rootmy.tv/
| jeffbee wrote:
| My webOS TV has been online the whole time and it has just sat
| there in silent service without any stupidity at all. Hardly
| seems worth the trouble of jailbreaking it.
| Zigurd wrote:
| I'm in the process of looking for a good 4k TV. I'm not worried
| about the smart features in the TV. I plan on using an outboard
| device to control the TV. In my case, a Chromecast. If I don't
| put the smart TV on my network, it can't phone home. Of course
| Google knows what I watch. But if I were more paranoid, I could
| put a DVD player and OTA antenna on the TV and still not network
| it.
|
| Because many users will hook up their smart TV, the makers of
| those sets get subsidized, in the same way bloatware end up on
| Windows laptops and non-Pixel Androids. I'll take the w re the
| price.
| GWBullshit wrote:
| You and I suspect half the country.
|
| During the 90s I remember there was this big fuss when Gateway
| 2000 was introducing the first "smart/PC" TV to the market.
|
| Steve Jobs went on record as saying something along the lines of
| "Not only will it not work out, it shouldn't, because TV is the
| place where people head to at the end of the day to shut their
| brains off, not figure out even more ways to interact with tech."
|
| It made sense then and like Steve Jobs said, the Gateway smart/PC
| TV turned out to be a major flop at the time despite tech mags
| raving about its introduction.
|
| It would seem, unfortunately, that the approach manufacturers
| seem to have taken in modern times is one of "WRONG! We'll MAKE
| it work by shoving the approach down consumers' throats by making
| sure ALL TVs insist on spending over a half hour pushing buttons
| before people can sit down to watch something and relax."
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Rtings maintains a list of ad-free TVs. This isn't the same as
| smart-free, but maybe that's what some people want:
|
| https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/ads-in-smart-tv (The ones with a
| "10" in the ad-free column.)
|
| The often-given advice of "just don't connect it to the internet"
| is viable only sometimes. My TV shipped with some missing
| features that were enabled after a software update.
|
| Perhaps plug it in, update the software, and then unplug it
| again.
| wmf wrote:
| They're using a fairly narrow definition of ads though. Vizio
| is full of recommendations for a mediocre streaming service
| owned by Vizio.
| pessimizer wrote:
| Does anything keep them from adding ads to your already
| purchased television at an arbitrary time in the future?
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Nothing except the dangers of terrible PR, I suppose.
| NonNefarious wrote:
| Didn't stop Google from turning the top third of all
| Android-based TVs' UI into ads a while back.
|
| People weren't pleased that their $4000 Sony TVs were
| turned into a spam conduit, but Google was quite pleased to
| say FU.
| Uke wrote:
| or update via usb
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| If I have to narrow down a specific definition of "smart
| feature" I would say voice input of any sort. So my take on
| OP's question is: can I buy a TV that has no built in
| microphones? Maybe OP meant something different but that is
| what I would want. Simplest though is to just not have a TV at
| all. If there is something important, it will be online.
| sam_bristow wrote:
| I ended up buying a cheap TCL brand TV a while ago. It still
| had all the smart features (which I didnt want) but at least
| it did have a physical switch to disable the microphone.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| Better check for more microphones. They are like potato
| chips. Bet they can't install just one ;).
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Another option if you have good control over your router is to
| put the TV and other smart devices on a special subnet or vlan
| and only occasionally give it internet access for updates, etc.
| Maybe there's a good DNS-based ad blocker you could run on its
| vlan and nuke all of its ad and spy traffic too.
|
| This actually seems like a good market opportunity for yet
| another home device, a router with aggressive spyware and ad
| mitigation that's made to explicitly connect all your smart
| gadgets and untrusted devices that phone home.
| monkpit wrote:
| These products are designed not to rely upon DNS to serve the
| ad content, though.
| tssva wrote:
| I block the ads on my Roku TV through DNS filtering.
| bbarnett wrote:
| If true, this is an excellent chance for white hat
| flooding.
|
| Knock, and keep that ip offline. With no way to change
| locationation(DNS), their little ad sceme won't work.
|
| Even better if it makes companies shy about using such
| methods.
| happyopossum wrote:
| Well, no - GP an isn't exactly correct. They use DNS,
| they just won't use your configured DNS. You can play NAT
| tricks to force all UDP dns queries to your pihole or
| other DNS based blocker, but they can just as easily use
| DOH.
| AlexAndScripts wrote:
| That's grey hat. _Arguably_ ethical... Ish... But
| entirely illegal and done without consent.
| jsjohnst wrote:
| > white hat flooding
|
| Very curious definition of "white hat" you have
| bbarnett wrote:
| A white hat works for the public good, yes?
| jsjohnst wrote:
| Sure, but is vigilantism for the public good?
| ForHackernews wrote:
| fragmede wrote:
| traditionally, white hat means working _with_ companies
| to help identify weaknesses in their systems, and getting
| inside with their consent.
| gruez wrote:
| Close, but no.
|
| >A white hat (or a white hat hacker) is an ethical
| security hacker.[1] Ethical hacking is a term meant to
| imply a broader category than just penetration
| testing.[2][3] Under the owner's consent, white hat
| hackers aim to identify any vulnerabilities the current
| system has. [...] There is a third kind of hacker known
| as a grey hat who hacks with good intentions but at times
| without permission.[6]
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hat_(computer_securit
| y)
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| It's not the same at all, smart tvs can still send tracking
| data home about what you're viewing etc. I would not want
| either.
| newhotelowner wrote:
| New LG's commercial line (Hospitality) is mostly a smart TV with
| no apps visible (no option to launch it). They just disable apps
| on the cheaper version.
|
| My non-smart LG commercial TV has an Ethernet port. As a curious
| person, I connected to the network. It started pinging LG
| servers. I was able to launch Youtube on the TV from the network.
| Once the app is open, I could use remote to control it.
| jitl wrote:
| I've kept my Samsung offline since I purchased it in 2019. I've
| kept my LG offline since I purchased it in 2016. As long as you
| have an AppleTV or similar connected to service your need for
| "smarts" it won't be hard to leave the TV offline.
|
| (I recommend LG over Samsung - Samsung TV has native
| undismissable ads from 2019 still)
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| I did this with my LG TV as well. What ads do you refer to on
| Samsung though? I dont recall any ads on my Samsung. I have my
| Samsung hooked up to the internet until I buy a second Apple TV
| device.
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| It's hard to find definitive information on this, but from
| what I can recall I don't think Samsung actually rolled out
| the current ad platform until mid-2019, and only in certain
| regions. So you might have been spared if you never updated
| your firmware or were in a region with no Samsung ad sales
| channel.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| I have a Samsung Device from 2021 and an LG one from like
| 2016 or so the LG I never hooked up to the internet, but
| the Samsung I keep online due to not having a streaming
| device for it, and maybe I'm just not noticing any but I
| have no ads. I also keep it plenty up to date.
| richdougherty wrote:
| Also, don't agree to the Terms of Service when prompted. This
| should in theory give extra protection against ads, etc.
|
| There's no nagging on a Samsung when you do this and use a
| Chromecast.
| sumy23 wrote:
| This will work for now, but device manufacturers are working
| towards building out mesh networks. You may not have connected
| your TV to the internet, but your neighbor did, and your TV can
| piggy back on your neighbors connection.
| richdougherty wrote:
| Crazy! This reinforces the idea of not agreeing to the Terms
| of Service when prompted. I've found you can easily avoid
| doing that on a Samsung.
| downrightmike wrote:
| Then we burn the wireless card
| mulmen wrote:
| Which violates the warranty. And if the TV can't phone home
| it can just refuse to boot. So you need to root and modify
| firmware too.
|
| The answer is not giving these companies money.
| prepend wrote:
| Tv warranties are only a year so that's not much to worry
| about. I bought a top of the line Samsung many years ago.
| The warranty lasted only a year and some capacitors
| burned out it took lots of phone calls to get them to
| repair as it's a design defect.
|
| I've had to do it myself once as well.
|
| I don't care about voiding my warranty.
| gorjusborg wrote:
| Yeah, I agree, best is to vote with my wallet.
|
| Second best, though, is getting out the soldering iron.
| metadat wrote:
| +1, this is great advice.
|
| I've been doing the same; get an AppleTV or GoogleTV dongle and
| never, ever attach the LG or Samshung TV to the network.
|
| Benefits of this strategy:
|
| * So simple, even non-savvy folks can follow the rule
|
| * Protects your privacy
|
| * Eliminates an unnecessary, highly invasive, and parasitic
| advertising vector (ads directly from LG or Samsung)
|
| * Protects your TV performance and functionality from surprise
| degradation due to "updates"
|
| I don't see any significant downsides compared to the upsides
| :)
|
| It's unfortunate the manufacturers are in a position where such
| perverse anti-customer incentives exist.
|
| All we really need and want is a great product crafted with
| love. What we got was a creepy spy box that eventually gets so
| slow it becomes unusable and worthless e-waste.
| anonymousab wrote:
| > and never, ever attach the LG or Samshung TV to the
| network.
|
| I recall seeing some pictures of models that eventually
| refuse to display content until they get a network connection
| to update (well, really, download new ads).
| amelius wrote:
| > It's unfortunate the manufacturers are in a position where
| such perverse anti-customer incentives exist.
|
| Why can't we have a consumer organization that protects us
| from having to buy stuff that we don't want.
|
| Wouldn't it be great if any product sold in mass quantities
| would have to pass a consumer/environment protection
| committee first?
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| > Why can't we have a consumer organization that protects
| us from having to buy stuff that we don't want
|
| Because of too much money from corporations in politics
| jfzoid wrote:
| and wouldn't it be great if the people on that committee
| acted in the consumers best interests?
| dmitriid wrote:
| > Protects your TV performance and functionality from
| surprise degradation due to "updates"
|
| Instead, it will have its own upgrades which will degrade
| performance and/or UI.
|
| A recent Android TV update on my Xiaomi Android TV brought
| ads covering a 1/4 of the screen from services I'm not
| subscribed to. Had to revert the upgrade and stop it from
| updating.
| metadat wrote:
| A new dongle is a lot cheaper and less e-waste than a new
| TV.
| molszanski wrote:
| No ads on AppleTv. Or I don't see them. Also used PS4 as a
| TV. But it wasn't super convenient without a remote. But
| overall the TV dongle is the way forward IMO
| clairity wrote:
| > "...GoogleTV..."
|
| > "* Protects your privacy"
|
| these two things are at complete odds. appletv is only
| marginally better, but it is better. anything google is going
| to spy on you for its own benefit and those of its
| advertisers.
| somehnacct3757 wrote:
| If you go this route, you will want to stick to older
| technology for audio and content peripherals. Otherwise you
| will have to connect it to the internet for bugfixes.
|
| For example, imagine you want to keep a smart TV offline but
| you also want the latest greatest eARC features over HDMI 2.1;
| or you want that new Dolby tech to work with your PlayStation
| 5. That's stuff that came out in the last couple years. Assume
| it will take the TVs five years to work seemlessly. In the
| meantime you're gonna need firmware updates. It won't work out
| of the box. Or maybe it will, but with a noticeable lag.
|
| Whatever smart TV model you're considering, read the patch
| notes and visit the fan reddits so you know what you're getting
| into.
|
| An alternative is to get a gaming monitor; however these rarely
| reach TV screen sizes so if you're looking for 45"+ you're
| stuck with smart TVs
| lyrrad wrote:
| My LG CX tv can be updated without internet by downloading
| the firmware file and loading it onto a USB drive.
|
| A quick search shows that at least some Samsung models have
| this capability as well.
| jitl wrote:
| My 2019 Samsung does a fine job at eARC using its factory
| firmware, but I'm fine with PCM stereo audio.
|
| My 2016 OLED LG model had a firmware update that supposedly
| would halve the max backlight to the point where the TV was
| unusable. Since I never connected the TV, I was safe from
| this but as you said I might miss out on some features.
| gnicholas wrote:
| If I faced this dilemma, I'd just turn on my phone's hotspot,
| give the credentials to the TV, then turn off the hotspot
| after it's updated.
| wyldfire wrote:
| Maybe I'm being a bit cynical but given that there are data
| channels provided by some HDMI cables/endpoints - do we know
| that for example the Apple TV cannot support an Ethernet-over-
| HDMI connection or that if it could support it, it's configured
| by default not to route traffic to/from this port?
|
| I think this feature was a commercial failure so hopefully it's
| universally unsupported.
| Shank wrote:
| > As long as you have an AppleTV or similar connected to
| service your need for "smarts" it won't be hard to leave the TV
| offline.
|
| Do these TVs start up and boot directly into the selected input
| for something like an Apple TV, or do you have to go to extra
| hoops when it starts up to switch to your desired input? I'd
| actually be perfectly happy with a smart TV that's disconnected
| if it never throws its UI in my face when I'm trying to just
| use an input for something.
| atkailash wrote:
| monkpit wrote:
| Look up HDMI-CEC and buy things that support that. It's what
| enables switching to the input automatically when the device
| is turned on.
| Fezzik wrote:
| On TCL panels (recommended in a separate comment) you can
| toggle/select what input the TV boots to and then you're
| never bothered again.
| richdougherty wrote:
| My Chromecast automatically turns my TV on and to the
| Chromecast input whenever I cast to it.
|
| This is when it's plugged into the HDMI ARC port on a Samsung
| TV, which I think is a CEC port as well.
|
| https://support.google.com/chromecast/answer/7199917
|
| > What is CEC?
|
| > CEC (Consumer Electronics Control) allows for HDMI devices
| to be controlled with one remote control.
|
| > If you try to cast to a CEC supported TV while on a
| different source input (local TV channel, Cable, USB), source
| input will automatically switch to the HDMI port where the
| Chromecast is connected. Certain TVs will also power on (when
| powered off) when trying to cast to the Chromecast.
| sharkweek wrote:
| I have a relatively new smart TV that I've never connected to
| anything and when I turn on my Apple TV with the remote it
| goes straight to Apple's interface
| solardev wrote:
| My "smart" Vizio TV and LG projectors just go directly to the
| last active input (in my case a Google TV). I never even
| remember they have their own built-in smart OSes because I
| never see them.
|
| However, these days, most of the streaming sticks have their
| own shitty recommendations and ads anyway, so unless you're
| doing a self-hosted Plex box or something, expect ads. And
| then of course there are the actual streaming service ads.
| [deleted]
| radley wrote:
| The Apple TV menu only shows preview cards for apps in the
| top row. Most apps show what you're currently watching, but
| other apps (Prime Video, ATV+, Twitch) will show promos
| instead. Best to move these apps to the right end of the
| top row, or down into the 2nd or 3rd row.
| mrweasel wrote:
| We never use the remote from our Philips TV. The AppleTV can
| turn the TV on and off, auto select the right HDMI, and
| control the volume.
|
| I only had the TV online once to update the firmware, not
| sure that was needed.
|
| The TV also have one other nice feature: you can remove the
| logo, there's just one screw holding it in place.
| brohoolio wrote:
| Same setup here. Sony TV that's never been connected plus an
| Apple TV.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Another Sony+Apple TV user here. Have had a couple of
| different Sony TVs, and if you keep them offline and never
| specifically request the smart TV UI (button on remote), they
| act almost indistinguishably from dumb TVs.
|
| They also run near-stock Android TV so even if I decided to
| use the built in smarts, the experience probably wouldn't be
| too bad. They do come with a content ID daemon preinstalled,
| but that's easy enough to remove with a laptop connected via
| USB with ADB.
|
| Additionally, Sony has been great about supporting firmware
| updates via USB flash drive, so you're not missing out on
| fixes and improvements by opting to keep it offline.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| > (I recommend LG over Samsung - Samsung TV has native
| undismissable ads from 2019 still)
|
| Wow you get ads even when you never connected it to the
| internet? That's really user hostile design.
|
| If I get a tv it'll be LG anyway because they do real OLED, not
| that Qled stuff that Samsung does.
| cma wrote:
| The AppleTV he recommended to use in its place has ads too I
| believe, through sponsored app placements.
| teirce wrote:
| What a nit.
|
| > AppleTV or similar
|
| Pick your poison. Doesn't have to be Apple TV, you could
| use anything from a Roku to a kodi stick to plugging a
| computer into the TV and playing things locally. What
| you're criticizing isn't the point.
| Koshkin wrote:
| I guess, the point here is, why disable the smart
| features in your TV only to plug another, just as
| "smart", device (i.e. one that _watches you_ ) in it?
| taejavu wrote:
| ...because it has less/no ads, and without some smarts
| somewhere I can't watch Netflix?
| null_object wrote:
| > The AppleTV he recommended to use in its place has ads
| too I believe, through sponsored app placements
|
| This really is the most nitpicking anti-Apple comments I've
| seen in a while. A friend of mine had a TV that would
| randomly interrupt films and programs he was watching (even
| in the middle of an action sequence) and show an ad that
| was inserted by the TV software. Luckily only happened for
| about 6 months - I'm guessing viewer reaction was too much
| for this 'feature' to survive.
|
| To see the 'ad' you're referring to, you'd have to go into
| the Apple AppStore, search for an app, go to the result
| screen and _maybe_ see a small section at the top of that
| view with a sponsored application.
| deanc wrote:
| Try using NextDNS on your tv. They have a preset list for
| Samsung that used to block the ads.
| ajaimk wrote:
| Sadly, Samsung is leapfrogging LG with QD OLED :-( Which is
| going to be better technology (brighter colors with OLED
| blacks)
|
| Owner of 2 LG OLEDs
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Really? I thought LG was pretty good. I'd have bought one
| already but I'm thinking about moving house and I don't
| want to have to deal with a fragile 55 or 65" TV. Also, I
| need the money for a downpayment.
|
| I currently have a 32" LG LCD which I'm also pretty happy
| about. It's obviously no OLED and it's not 4K but for a
| cheap LCD it's pretty decent. I also love the serial
| control options (over USB) and I'm working to integrate it
| with Home assistant (so my screen will dim also when I dim
| the lights in the room).
| hereme888 wrote:
| I think many people would be satisfied with not having the
| latest and greatest in exchange for a respectful device.
| rat9988 wrote:
| Many others would be frustrated if they have to
| compromise.
| agsnu wrote:
| Sony is shipping the Samsung QD OLED panels in their Bravia
| range as well, if that's any consolation
| Koshkin wrote:
| > _brighter colors_
|
| How bright do you want them to be? Do you watch Netflix in
| a sun-lit room?
| happyopossum wrote:
| I do - why wouldn't I want to be able to do that?
| Grustaf wrote:
| Some people don't watch tv during the day...
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I think they mean more saturated colours? Though I
| suppose the current OLED TVs already support DCI-P3 and
| there is no bigger colourspace available for video
| content.
|
| Edit: Actually, one thing that LG do is that they have a
| white pixel (RGBW layout) for the really high
| brightnesses required for HDR. This means colours get
| paler when the white pixel is used. This could be what
| they meant.
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| +1 one day I got tired of my Vizio tv's "smarts" being the
| school dunce. Some of it was on the app developers (Eg Amazon
| app ran terribly on my TV), so I bought a chromecast google tv
| thing and it's completely revitalized my tv .
| neuralRiot wrote:
| Get commercial grade TVs
|
| https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-55-class-be55t-h-led-4k...
| blamazon wrote:
| Plus one on this. My employer buys tens of thousands of 50-80
| inch TVs a year and none of them are "smart." The supply is out
| there.
|
| Do expect to pay more though.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| I bought a low end RCA 4K tv from Wal-Mart at the start of the
| pandemic that has no smart features. It does have a USB port but
| doesn't appear to be able to do anything with it. There's nothing
| online. The on screen menus are sluggish but if you don't change
| settings often, that's not much of an issue.
| usrn wrote:
| Computer monitors and projectors are still free of the nonsense.
| someweirdperson wrote:
| My panasonic non-android (something based on firefox-os I think)
| has a setting to not load related online-data when switch to a
| channel until explicity pushing a button to do so. That option
| was added in the most recent update.
|
| However, it also has some built-in netflix/prime/youtube/...
| apps. And I have seen at least some network traffic that seemed
| realated to those, even though I never started them. Maybe just
| loading updates, maybe leaking data. I don't know. I didn't check
| since the last update though.
|
| It's not perfect, but seems much less bad than most others.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I think my 50" Sony didn't nag me to connect it to Wifi. (I
| bought it to use as a computer monitor.)
|
| I did connect it to Wifi after a few days, because sometimes I
| use the smart features.
|
| One thing to consider: If you aren't looking for broadcast TV,
| use a computer monitor.
| cat_plus_plus wrote:
| It's one of the things that doesn't make sense anymore, like cars
| with manual transmission. Smarts in smart TV might cost $25 per
| unit, but OEMs get paid for streaming service placements on
| remote / home screen and a cut of revenue if users sign up. Even
| without streaming functionality, TV would still need some smarts
| to display tuner/inputs/settings UI and it's cheaper to develop
| Android apps than go custom route. Plus even users who don't use
| smart functionality much like software updates and launching
| Netflix directly from TV remote.
|
| So just get a TV based on features and don't connect to WiFi if
| you are not interested in smart functionality. Think of all the
| money you are saving by buying a high volume consumer product
| rather than a commercial display that goes for at least twice
| more.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| "It's one of the things that doesn't make sense anymore, like
| cars with manual transmission."
|
| Lost me already. I enjoy manual transmissions. The function
| they perform which makes sense anymore is being enjoyable.
|
| And I'm allowed to thankyouverymuch. You have confused
| pointless to you with pointless.
| cat_plus_plus wrote:
| So long as lots of people care about manual transmission,
| there will be a niche market, but don't expect every car
| maker / model to be available. Don't see that happening for
| removal of smart functionality that nobody has to use.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > It's one of the things that doesn't make sense anymore, like
| cars with manual transmission.
|
| Smart TVs don't make sense when televisions both have inputs,
| and there exist multiple off the shelf solutions like
| chromecast, appletv, roku, etc. (I'm lame, I just use an Intel
| NUC with a full operating system.) Smart TVs are TV/VCR combos
| at best, and at worst a vector for your network to be attacked
| after the company moves on from updating them (or existing.)
| cat_plus_plus wrote:
| So what's wrong with a TV/VCR combo? It's convenient when
| getting started with a new house, you can always just not use
| the VCR, you can always buy a DVD player when technology
| moves on. An average consumer just wants minimum hassle.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I'm extremely happy with my TVs that have Android built in. I
| only use external peripherals for audiophile content and
| physical media.
| bananamerica wrote:
| TIL most car in my country doesn't make any sense :P
| IgorPartola wrote:
| Like it or not, it is true. As reliability and performance of
| automatics gets better and the gas mileage is now also on par
| and the cost to produce an automatic is reduced by economies
| of scale, manual transmissions are going by way of horse and
| buggies. It's not everywhere but it will be.
|
| Also consider that EVs have different requirements for their
| transmissions than ICE vehicles and there are no EVs with
| manual transmissions as far as I know at all.
| julianwachholz wrote:
| For your interest: Brammo made the Empulse R, a fully
| electric motorcycle with a six-speed manual transmission.
|
| https://www.wired.com/2012/08/brammo-empulse-r/
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| But a manual is fun to operate. If all you care about is
| transportation, take the bus.
|
| You have confused personal preference with universal truth.
|
| And aside from that, the difference is complexity and
| reliability is still a fact.
|
| "Like it or not"
| IgorPartola wrote:
| What manufactures do has little to do with what you
| consider fun.
| bananamerica wrote:
| Manual is fun to operate hen the roads are clear, well
| designed and maintained. If you're in heavy traffic in
| crazy third world roads like I usually am, not so much.
| pmontra wrote:
| I think manual is safer on mountain roads (automatic is
| scary there) and possibly for 4WD. I drove an EV only in
| city roads (a car sharing company) and it had great
| acceleration and it was silent at traffic lights. No gears,
| of course.
| bananamerica wrote:
| I do agree, but the third world is on a 20 year time delay.
| So it'll take a while for everything that you're saying to
| become true where I am.
| rvieira wrote:
| I have an LG SmartTV that I use "offline" (watch streaming
| services via a Playstation connected to it).
|
| Curiously, I've connected it once to try the bundled apps (e.g.
| Netflix) and the Playstation ones had much better picture
| quality.
| pluc wrote:
| This is my answer every time this comes up:
|
| https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV-category1category73.htm...
| worldmerge wrote:
| Jeff Geerling just did a video on a commercial tv that even has a
| pi in it. Maybe look into digital signage stuff or even a large
| computer monitor or projector.
| hbcondo714 wrote:
| Yup, Jeff's write-up and video on NEC's Pi-powered 55" Display
| model were posted here on HN just a couple days ago:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31674957
|
| My comment was you can buy it via Walmart:
|
| https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEC-MultiSync-m551-55-Diagonal-Cl...
| richardfey wrote:
| This one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-epPf7D8oMk
|
| Note: Sharp paid him for this
| undersuit wrote:
| I have an older 65" NEC with a Pi3 in it. It's pretty cool, I
| like using the 4-way split screen feature with Twitch streams
| and I have a Steam PC daisy chained off the TV's network
| switch.
| bitwize wrote:
| Sceptre sells dumb TVs. Often these are available for order
| through Wal-Mart's web site.
| natural219 wrote:
| Second this. I bought a 65" Sceptre TV a year or two ago for
| this exact reason, it works great, picture quality is awesome,
| and it was less than $600-700 IIRC. I plug in a chromecast for
| netflix etc but it's nice to know I can unplug it any time and
| just use HDMI if I want to.
| 5555624 wrote:
| A few weeks ago, I bought a Sceptre (Komodo) 40-inch LED HDTV
| from Amazon. No smart features at all. I've been satisfied with
| it so far.
| ChicagoDave wrote:
| I ignore the smart TV software entirely and stream everything
| through XBox apps.
| asimpletune wrote:
| They're called digital displays
| toolchange wrote:
| soared wrote:
| @dang Can we create a list of reposts that get auto killed? This
| post and "does advertising even work?" are reposted seemingly
| every month.
| undersuit wrote:
| I'd rather not we not have this. While reposts are annoying
| sometimes I'm the lucky person of the day that gets to read
| something new.
|
| https://xkcd.com/1053/
| stormbrew wrote:
| That sounds like a great way to wind up with a single locked 8
| year old post full of links to products that aren't sold
| anymore.
| MR4D wrote:
| You want to buy a "monitor", not a TV.
|
| For instance there is this from LG [0] or this from Dell [1].
| Just do a search for "large 4K monitor" and you'll find more.
|
| [0] - https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-43-ultrafine-4k-uhd-
| monitor-...
|
| [1] - https://www.dell.com/en-
| us/work/shop/dell-55-4k-conference-r...
| mcculley wrote:
| Is there a proper term or category for a monitor meant for high
| end installations that has no branding on it (e.g., as one
| would put into a display at a museum)?
|
| I refuse to buy something with a logo on the front of it.
| NonNefarious wrote:
| I got a projector. No "smart" bullshit, branding issues, or
| other obnoxiousness.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| You might want to search for "Public Display" monitors.
| Although these usually have some smart-ish software used to
| run digital signage and stuff, they probably don't spy on
| you.
| GoodJokes wrote:
| MR4D wrote:
| Yes. In fact, Jeff Geerling just had a YouTube episode about
| one (and Raspberry Pi of course).
|
| https://youtu.be/-epPf7D8oMk
| ffggvv wrote:
| monitors dont have tv channels or hook ups for a lot of peoples
| cable boxes
|
| usually dont have the best (if ant) speakers or a remote either
| iancmceachern wrote:
| My 42" 4k LG monitor has both a remote and built-in speakers.
|
| It also plugs right into my cable box via one of its 4 hdmi
| inputs
| donclark wrote:
| Or is there a process to turn a "smart tv" into a dumb tv? (per
| brand/make/model)
| sathomasga wrote:
| Don't give it WiFi credentials. (I've got a 5-year-old Samsung
| that's never connected to any network and it works fine.)
| Matthias247 wrote:
| And don't plug in an ethernet cable
| Grazester wrote:
| One would think this would have been more obvious.
| anonymousab wrote:
| > One would think this would have been more obvious.
|
| Devices can refuse to function without a network
| connection, and the profits to be made from simply
| including a cellular connection of some sort for ad refresh
| + tracking are too high to be ignored forever.
|
| So this isn't a reliable, long-term solution.
| astrostl wrote:
| I have to think that far less than 1% of STV owners don't
| connect them. Adding hardware to capture whatever % of
| them it actually is seems extremely financially dubious
| to me, especially given how unlikely they are to have
| positive ad conversions.
| johannes1234321 wrote:
| How do you then get the software update, to fix buffer
| overflows while decoding the video stream?
|
| (ok, most TV vendors won't bother to fix and most video
| sources ate somewhat trusatable not to exploit ... especially
| as an exploit can't do much unless it is connected to a
| network)
| jeffbee wrote:
| If you are using them at dumb displays, you aren't decoding
| video on them, you are sending them HDMI signals that were
| already decoded by your other thing.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| > How do you then get the software update
|
| Some of them allow updates via USB stick.
| UberFly wrote:
| You could just update once in a while then unplug again.
| keerthiko wrote:
| This is why large monitors are so expensive, because they aren't
| subsidized by the ads large TVs force upon their users for the
| most basic usage.
|
| But if you can afford it, there are 40+" 4k and 8k monitors to
| which you can plug AppleTV/Chromecast/a small PC with a budget
| discrete graphics card. Or you can get a conference projector if
| no monitor on the market meets your size needs.
| 323 wrote:
| > _because they aren 't subsidized by the ads_
|
| That's a myth, even if subsidies do exist. Monitors were always
| more expensive than similar size TVs because they have better
| specs, more features, and longer warranty.
|
| Linus Tech Tips on the subject:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWH1zXmFgl8
|
| 1997 Baltimore Sun article about this: https://archive.ph/mhxET
| keerthiko wrote:
| The technical advantages of monitors are valid reasons for
| higher cost (refresh rate, response time, color accuracy,
| gsync/freesync), but as mentioned in the video itself, TVs do
| have enough tech that monitors don't to offset those
| differences (size+resolution, brightness uniformity,
| OLED/curved/thinness options), so it _should_ be a wash.
|
| However, the video you linked doesn't really address the
| advertisement subsidy point at all (I searched the transcript
| for any references to make sure), so it isn't really an
| argument that the ad-subsidy is a myth. Plenty of reporting
| and discussion and evidence that traditional TV advertising
| industry (untargeted cable/broadcast ads) is declining in
| revenue, but the overall TV ad industry revenue is growing
| (share taken up by smart TV and streaming service ads) is
| going up. Streaming services absolutely use platform data
| where they can access it (ie smart TVs). A 1997 article
| sounds like it would have no context whatsoever about the
| 2020 smart TV advertising landscape (very very different from
| traditional TV advertising).
|
| Ad revshare is just _so_ lucrative, especially for ~$0 cost
| /unit for the manufacturer that it pays for every smart
| feature and onboard computer and then some. The difference in
| cost for net-comparable features is still apparent -- the
| cheapest monitor at size-resolution combo X with worst
| refresh rate/response time/color accuracy is still more
| expensive than the cheapest smart TV at X (roughly comparable
| features).
| 323 wrote:
| The point of the 1997 article was to show that even before
| Smart TVs and advertising revenue existed monitors were
| still more expensive than TVs, so nothing changed.
|
| Your parent post implied that if advertising revenue
| wouldn't exist, TVs would not be much cheaper than
| monitors.
|
| There are cheap no-name TV producers in China which sell
| ultra cheap TVs without them making any advertising
| revenue.
|
| I don't deny that ad revshare is very lucrative, but it's
| not the reason TVs are cheap. You can have them both, sell
| TVs at tiny margin above production cost and get extra ad
| revshare.
| gruez wrote:
| >But if you can afford it, there are 40+" 4k and 8k monitors to
| which you can plug AppleTV/Chromecast/a small PC with a budget
| discrete graphics card. Or you can get a conference projector
| if no monitor on the market meets your size needs.
|
| Buying a smart TV but not connecting it to wifi seems
| preferable to both of these. It's cheaper in price (than buying
| a professional monitor), and has superior picture quality
| (compared to projectors).
| account-5 wrote:
| How did TV manufacturers do this before they created "smart"
| TVs that forced advertising on us? I still have a dumb TV that
| was cheaper than contemporary monitors that couldn't force
| adverts on me.
| rogierhofboer wrote:
| Philips Momentum series, technically game monitors, but do come
| in 55 inch. Note these do not have any DVB tuner, so you'll
| always need a separate mediabox to watch TV.
| godmode2019 wrote:
| Soon they will ship TVs with sim cards to track those hard to
| reach tech worker / drug dealer market
| vie00001 wrote:
| These are dumb TVs, also without a tuner.
|
| https://nogis.at/
| themitigating wrote:
| Just turn off the wifi
| echelon wrote:
| Horrifying realization -
|
| Once maximum customer penetration from WiFi is reached (not all
| consumers will add TVs to the network), these companies will bake
| in cheap cellular transceivers and contract directly with
| wireless carriers without any ability to opt out. They probably
| won't be used for actual content - just low bandwidth spying and
| ads.
|
| It's what the early kindles used (called "whispernet"). Soon a
| lot of products may bake little radios in to spy on us.
|
| Consumer spy tech will start to resemble cold war techniques.
| ternus wrote:
| Some BenQ projectors, including the just-released X3000i I
| recently picked up, consign the "smart" portion to an Android TV
| HDMI+USB stick that plugs in inside the body of the projector. I
| just never plugged mine in and the projector works fine.
| secretsatan wrote:
| I have a sony bravia one. It is currently unplugged from the
| network and solely connected through my playstation. Admittedly i
| just passed the buck to sony through another device, but i'm
| quite happy using the ps5 (and previously ps4) as a media centre,
| it has netflix and all the others, plus plex, and that connects
| to my pi plex server + NAS drive, through which you can put on
| any content you like
| gennarro wrote:
| This is a bit outdated but it helped me out in the past:
| https://helpatmyhome.com/best-non-smart-tv/
| moistly wrote:
| We need a circuits geek to create a website documenting "how to
| disable your tv's wifi antenna."
|
| Name it TVLobotomy.
| adamredwoods wrote:
| Curious. I wonder if it's possible to get Tizen root-level
| access through another app:
|
| https://developer.samsung.com/smarttv/develop/getting-starte...
|
| Here's how to do it through cable:
|
| http://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=Ex-Link_Cable_for_J/K/...
| zerof1l wrote:
| Yes, check out Swedx signage display.
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(page generated 2022-06-11 23:00 UTC)