[HN Gopher] TBD Web5
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       TBD Web5
        
       Author : hi
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2022-06-10 17:50 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (developer.tbd.website)
 (TXT) w3m dump (developer.tbd.website)
        
       | uptown wrote:
       | I'm holding out for Web8.
        
         | lukifer wrote:
         | In the spirit of Asimov's Zeroth Law, I think it's time for the
         | prequel, Web0 (since we all know zero-indexing is objectively
         | correct). Bring back the simple purity of Usenet and BBS:
         | everything that's old is new again ;)
        
         | boffinism wrote:
         | The Ocho.
        
           | NotSammyHagar wrote:
           | Web Ocho Cinko? Must be Friday afternoon.
        
         | vittore wrote:
         | or web10 :shrug:
        
       | michaelsbradley wrote:
       | Interesting! Seems to have a fair bit of crossover with what the
       | Fission team is doing. Yesterday I stumbled upon a web page re: a
       | presentation that a key Fission dev/founder (former Ethereum Core
       | Dev) will be making in late September[1].
       | 
       | I ended up spending some time playing with Fission Drive[2] and
       | looking at their Guide[3], and just generally reading their
       | dev[4] and marketing materials[5].
       | 
       | Anyway, looking at the Web5 site, it seem to strike some of the
       | same notes.
       | 
       | I'm not affiliated with or participating in Fission or the Web5
       | projects in any way, but am working as part of a different team
       | developing an open protocol for decentralized storage, which is
       | focused on incentivized data durability.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.thestrangeloop.com/2022/a-distributed-file-
       | syste...
       | 
       | [2] https://drive.fission.codes/
       | 
       | [3] https://guide.fission.codes/
       | 
       | [4] https://github.com/fission-suite
       | 
       | [5] https://fission.codes/
        
       | 2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote:
       | Is this satire? I honestly can't tell anymore with projects
       | surrounding cryptocurrencies.
        
         | anonporridge wrote:
         | The project is serious, but the name is making fun of Web3.
        
       | zorlack wrote:
       | (web2)(web3) = (web5)
       | 
       | (web)(2)(web)(3) = (web)(5)
       | 
       | [SNIP]
       | 
       | (web) = (5/6)
       | 
       | Nailed it.
       | 
       | Er.. Or web = 0.
       | 
       | Hmm.
        
         | NotSammyHagar wrote:
         | Woah woah woah! You can't just blow right past web 4. Unless
         | you are following the rule that all web versions must be prime
         | numbers. Then it's okay.
        
       | asojfdowgh wrote:
       | All I can say is... I've seen it all before now? on "web2",
       | nothing ever prevented someone using cert/key based auth, and
       | there were libraries to abstract over proprietary APIs, but if
       | you didn't want to go that way, there is also
       | https://remotestorage.io/ et al
       | 
       | biggest hugest problem though: no one cares, go ask your mom
       | about the difference between web1, 2, and 3
        
         | lukifer wrote:
         | Setting aside the arbitrary fuzziness of the "WebN" labels, Web
         | 2.0 addressed two clear shortcomings of the WWW stack: (1) no
         | protocols for persistent user identity, and (2) no protocols
         | for value transfer.
         | 
         | The trade-off of the 2.0 era was (is): solving those required
         | out-sourcing to private, pseudo-feudal institutions:
         | Google/Facebook/etc in the first case, PayPal/Venmo/etc in the
         | second. (One could argue that WWW did in fact have affordances
         | to make this possible, in the form of cookies and SSL; but the
         | point is, those affordances were insufficient on their own,
         | requiring integration with centralized "cloud" providers, and
         | in the case of value transfer, central banks as well.)
         | 
         | The alleged intent of "web3" is to address these shortcomings
         | in a user-sovereign, platform-native way. No doubt, a huge
         | number of projects operating in the space are glorified rug-
         | pulls and Ponzi schemes; I don't blame skeptics at all,
         | considering the history of moral hazards, perverse incentives,
         | and blatant scams in crypto-economics. All the same, I wouldn't
         | write off the category wholesale; there are some fascinating
         | things happening in non-blockchain FOSS projects [0], voluntary
         | creation of public goods [1], and community revivification of
         | the Commons [2].
         | 
         | [0] https://taler.net/en/index.html
         | 
         | [1] https://commonsstack.org/
         | 
         | [2] https://commonsengine.org/
        
       | madrox wrote:
       | We're going to keep doing Web++ until we learn to stop worrying
       | and love the mess that is online identity. The fact is that the
       | distributed data model will never be clean because, in aggregate,
       | people don't really care and don't neatly fit into the structures
       | engineers want to impose on data. This is why experience started
       | winning the app wars.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | No worries. Once the numbers get to big, they just switch to
         | years or whatever.
         | 
         | If you're old enough to remember windows 2000
        
           | cookiengineer wrote:
           | Fun fact: windows 95 and 98 are the reason why it is Windows
           | 10 and not 9.
           | 
           | Cause you know, kernel_version.startsWith("9") and good old
           | programming methodologies.
        
             | Dylan16807 wrote:
             | That's a fake fact. The number windows exposes doesn't work
             | that way and also pretends to be an older version to older
             | programs. Some people pointed at java code doing something
             | _like_ that, but that code never would have failed either.
        
       | lwansbrough wrote:
       | All of this stuff is built upon the premise that decentralization
       | is a good thing, but I have yet to see much supporting evidence.
       | I do however see a ton of evidence to the contrary.
       | 
       | (I see centralization as more like clustering than a unifying of
       | everything.)
       | 
       | Decentralization happens in the real world out of necessity, not
       | because it's preferred. In fact, we centralize everything that is
       | convenient to centralize because of its efficiency. And
       | decentralization tends to occur at the boundaries of cooperation,
       | where the problems lie.
       | 
       | So why would I want enforced decentralization when doing so would
       | be inconvenient or inefficient?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | michaelsbradley wrote:
         | Centralization can lead to inefficiencies and ineffectiveness
         | (and other problems) at large scales.
         | 
         | It _is_ possible to have strong hierarchical authority and
         | decentralized decision-making work together over the long haul,
         | to alleviate those obstacles, even if the two bump heads on
         | occasion:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity_(Catholicism)
        
         | axg11 wrote:
         | Agreed that the current (incorrect) web3 narrative is that all
         | decentralization is good. There will be use cases where it's
         | good and use cases where it's bad. The process to a valuable
         | endpoint will involve a lot of duds and failed companies.
        
       | vittore wrote:
       | only question I have, is the next version going to be web8 or
       | web10?
        
       | etchalon wrote:
       | This idea depends on two non-starters:
       | 
       | 1. A completely centralized data authority (in this case,
       | Bitcoin). 2. User's running their own infrastructure.
       | 
       | "Put everything in one giant bucket, and make users 100%
       | responsible for managing that bucket without any room for error"
       | is not a workable path forward.
       | 
       | Developers may love this type of approach, and appreciate the
       | advantages it would offer, but it's too much to ask of my 70 year
       | old mom or 11 year old nephew.
       | 
       | An easier approach would be Passkeys and localStorage
       | transferability between domains, or export feature on sites.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ourmandave wrote:
         | _Developers may love this type of approach, and appreciate the
         | advantages it would offer,..._
         | 
         | Like all the roll-your-own security success stories. =D
        
       | axg11 wrote:
       | It takes a lot to look past the branding, but I think the vision
       | is interesting. I think there _will_ be more personal ownership
       | of data in the future, but not across all services.
       | Decentralized, permissionless self-custody data only makes sense
       | for narrow use cases.
        
         | lottin wrote:
         | No, it's just technobabble. Personal ownership of data? What is
         | that? What do they mean by ownership of data? Like,
         | intellectual property? DRM? What exactly? They don't know,
         | because it doesn't matter, because it's just meaningless words
         | that are intended to sound empowering. All web3/web5 promoters
         | care about is that we buy their worthless, useless tokens. They
         | can stick them where the sun don't shine!
        
       | Semiapies wrote:
       | Yup. Time to close the HN tab for the week.
        
       | collaborative wrote:
       | Anyone else loves the UI or is it just me?
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | Reminds of WinAmp 5.x, since they went from v3 straight to v5
       | (the best if v2 + v3 = v5)
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-10 23:01 UTC)