[HN Gopher] Claws Mail
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Claws Mail
Author : andrewshadura
Score : 129 points
Date : 2022-06-10 09:16 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.claws-mail.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.claws-mail.org)
| catchclose8919 wrote:
| How does this compare with Thunderbird?
| fluctor wrote:
| Will Claws let me identify and delete duplicate messages?
| imrejonk wrote:
| I really like the message composer in Claws Mail. It has proper
| line wrapping, meaning that you don't get strange line breaks in
| quoted text when replying inline. I've never got that to work on
| Evolution and Thunderbird (which I haven't used in a while, so
| maybe this has been fixed already).
| leephillips wrote:
| Can someone who is familiar with both this and mutt explain why
| one would choose to use the former rather than the latter?
| smorrebrod wrote:
| Claws has a GUI, so buttons, drag and drop, etc. It has a
| pretty good html rendering engine. Also it uses MH format which
| I prefer.
| leephillips wrote:
| Mutt supports MH. I didn't know about the HTML engine,
| thanks. (Personally, I prefer mutt's approach, where I can
| use the external HTML viewer of my choice, but don't
| sacrifice the speed of a terminal interface when manipulating
| mail.)
| al_borland wrote:
| >It has a pretty good html rendering engine.
|
| I'm a bit confused. Another comment listed the following as a
| con of Claws:
|
| >Can't send HTML email (whatever) and can't view HTML without
| a pretty clunky plugin (annoying). I usually use a keybinding
| to send HTML emails to a Firefox instance that has networking
| disabled.
| smorrebrod wrote:
| True HTML rendering is made through a plugin. Although if I
| remember correctly, plugins are included in the base
| package. Never had an issue with the HTML plugin but didn't
| use it on complex HTML so YMMV.
| rascul wrote:
| I used claws for some time, but I ended up going back to
| Thunderbird. The big issue I had was that when I switched to
| another folder it would freeze for a time. I think it had
| something to do with the folder size. Sometimes the freeze would
| be over a minute. After some time I simply had enough. Other than
| that, I very much liked it.
| fps_doug wrote:
| I think it's when you have processing rules in place for some
| or all folders, it seems they get applied to all messages again
| every time you open a folder. Normal filter rules don't expose
| that behavior, and I've been too lazy to look up what the
| difference is supposed to be. However, ever since I only add
| rules to "configuration" -> "filter..." I can switch between
| 5k+ message folders instantly (using IMAP).
| rascul wrote:
| I had no processing rules.
| magnetic-recoil wrote:
| Yep, unfortunately the network and folder loading code is
| really slow in Claws. There's lots of scope for improvement but
| no real development effort towards it - a few years ago I made
| some patches fixing a few low-hanging fruit but they were just
| left to rot and it hasn't improved since.
| loeg wrote:
| It seems to do IO on the UI thread.
| mrweasel wrote:
| That's really my only complaint as well, sometimes the whole
| thing just freeze, I'm sure it does something in the
| background, but there's very little feedback.
|
| One way to fix it might be to some mail retrieval agent that
| supports MH format and just read the emails that way. It's a
| little old-school though.
|
| I do like the interface, it's much let busy that more modern
| email clients, and it have everything I need.
| [deleted]
| Cockbrand wrote:
| Nice to see that this still exists! I've been using it ages ago
| when it was still called Sylpheed Claws, and I loved it. Clean
| and very snappy GUI, lots of sensible features, still not as
| bloated as many alternatives.
|
| Lost track of it after switching back to Mac about 2005.
| throw0101a wrote:
| Does it support OAUTH 2? (I don't see any mention of it.)
| georgyo wrote:
| Yes, as of 4.0.0
| [deleted]
| mrweasel wrote:
| Why would an email client need OAUTH2?
|
| Edit: Apparently that's a thing: https://git.claws-
| mail.org/?p=claws.git;a=commit;h=d65f9fb28...
| easytiger wrote:
| There are fast setups for e.g. Gmail that use oauth. Vivaldi,
| Evolution etc also use them
| phyzome wrote:
| I've been using this for years, and would recommend it to power-
| user types.
|
| Pros:
|
| - You can define custom actions to run, including running
| external programs
|
| - Very keyboard-accessible (including bindings for those custom
| actions)
|
| - You can define boolean filters to process messages as they come
| in, but also per-folder processing rules to run when you visit a
| folder. Again, you can run external programs as one of the
| actions when a filter or processing rule matches.
|
| - You can write whatever From address you want. A lot of mail
| clients make it way too hard to do this, but it's important if
| you have multiple aliases or a catchall at your domain.
|
| Cons:
|
| - Seems to be single-threaded. Certain UI and network operations
| block the rest of the UI.
|
| - Has a good search feature (same as filter rule language) but
| not great -- it doesn't build an index and doesn't search across
| more than one folder at a time.
|
| - Can't send HTML email (whatever) and can't view HTML without a
| pretty clunky plugin (annoying). I usually use a keybinding to
| send HTML emails to a Firefox instance that has networking
| disabled. :-P
|
| - One big keyboard binding that's missing: You can quickly get a
| list of all URLs that are in the email, and select and _launch_
| one, but not just _copy_ it. (Most people won 't care about this,
| but I prefer opening some email links in a private browsing
| window.)
| loeg wrote:
| The single threaded nature is what kills it for me. I placed
| the indices on a ramdisk to make the performance viable.
| sundarurfriend wrote:
| I use Claws when I need to quickly check an email update or do
| a simple search, because it's much faster and less memory
| hungry compared to Thunderbird. In fact, the inability to read
| HTML emails is pretty much the only thing keeping me from using
| it as my main mail reader. (I didn't know about this plugin,
| clunky or otherwise, could you mention that it's called? Also,
| in what way is it clunky - is it unstable/unreliable, or is it
| just slow to load or something?)
| wryun wrote:
| https://www.claws-mail.org/plugins.php
|
| There are three. Dillo does some crazy embedding thing (and
| only works in X, not Wayland), litehtml is simpler but can't
| render everything. Haven't tried 'Fancy' - since it's webkit,
| it's probably the closest to a real HTML email experience.
| gapan wrote:
| There are a few [1]. I've used "fancy" in the past. I can't
| say I have a complaint.
|
| [1] https://www.claws-mail.org/plugins.php
| quantum_magpie wrote:
| > Can't send HTML email (whatever) and can't view HTML without
| a pretty clunky plugin (annoying). I usually use a keybinding
| to send HTML emails to a Firefox instance that has networking
| disabled. :-P
|
| That is a huge pro for me, I despise HTML emails and it is
| actually so easy to spot scams when their button hyperlinks are
| shown in plain text, full URL.
| rhn_mk1 wrote:
| > doesn't search across more than one folder at a time.
|
| But it _does_ search recursively, which makes this way less
| problematic than it could. Just search your entire archive.
| trumpablehump wrote:
| And you can switch folders with the search staying active and
| only showing the matching mails in the folder you switched
| to! It drives me mad that Thunderbird insists of clearing the
| search filter when I switch folders.
| elevation wrote:
| I moved from Thunderbird to claws because it works on my 2GB
| ram Linux netbook.
|
| Performance is great but one feature I miss is an "archive"
| button that would let me move selected messages to an archive
| folder. I can still manually drag them, but sometimes I drop at
| the wrong place and have to navigate around to make it right.
| Would love to see this simple feature.
|
| Also, claws search is horrible, I often have to open
| thunderbird on another machine to find things that claws mail
| can't.
| mrspuratic wrote:
| Long time user, ~17y, first Sylpheed then Claws. I have 20
| years of email (90k messages, over IMAP). Running Claws on
| Slackware, and (reluctantly) Windows.
|
| Stable, fast, functional (limited threading, and single view
| notwithstanding).
|
| Sadly I am being pushed into using Outlook - a UI that looks
| like an explosion in a widget factory, and which crashes at
| least twice a week :/
| hammyhavoc wrote:
| Outlook fails to hold my attention. Tried it several times
| and it is just complete over-stim. I feel repulsed by it and
| need to look at something less busy.
|
| Disclaimer: autistic.
| pxc wrote:
| I'm using Outlook for the first time after more than a
| decade away from Windows, and I feel the exact same way.
| Just looking at the app is overwhelming and makes me want
| to panic-close it.
|
| (Idk how it can have so much garbage all over the UI and
| still be missing basic features I care about, either.)
|
| I'm going to try the web client today. Hopefully I can
| stick to that one.
| leni536 wrote:
| I still use it. Too bad it doesn't support IMAP push, otherwise
| an excellent client.
| sph wrote:
| "Graceful, and sophisticated interface" based on GTK 1.
| pelagicAustral wrote:
| Looks comfy, IMO.
| rhn_mk1 wrote:
| It's based on GTK2.
| gapan wrote:
| Latest version (4.x) is GTK3.
| rhn_mk1 wrote:
| Oh wow, I almost didn't notice! Just the annoying spaces
| between buttons which will move the entire window if
| accidentally dragged.
| sph wrote:
| My bad, I saw a "CHANGELOG.gtk1" in the repo, and the
| interface reminded me of GNOME running on my SuSE
| installation in 2001.
| 5e92cb50239222b wrote:
| I'm pretty sure that's the iconic clearlooks theme on top
| of gtk2 (that combination is obvious if you've spent any
| amount of time with it).
|
| In any case, those screenshots are too old, and the UI is
| using gtk3.
|
| https://git.claws-
| mail.org/?p=claws.git;a=blob;f=configure.a...
| googlryas wrote:
| That page hasn't changed much in 15 years:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20070103185316/https://claws-mai...
| ksajadi wrote:
| A genuine question: why is it that most open source email clients
| have websites that look like they were put together by Tim
| Berners Lee, as a test of "this web thing"? Here is another one
| https://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/en/
| sam_goody wrote:
| It is a shame that open source is much more of a subject in the
| world of programmers than in the world of user interface
| designers.
|
| A face lift for claws would be worth 1000 new features.
|
| It is a fact that people rate software by how it looks, and
| anyone who is not a geek will pass up Claws - and the geeks will
| install it alongside whatever they regularly use.
|
| I wonder if there is a way to get more open source UI work?
| squarefoot wrote:
| > A face lift for claws would be worth 1000 new features.
|
| But it would probably tax the hardware as such. Claws Mail,
| which is my #1 choice since decades, is probably the best that
| can be achieved without surrendering it to a more "modern"
| development style that could make it at least an order of
| magnitude bigger and slower. It's simply amazing that I can
| keep all my emails since 1997 (tens of thousands posts, with
| attachments, the older ones easily converted from Eudora, my
| then client under Windows) online so I can search everything I
| have posted or received instantly on indexed fields or in like
| 30 seconds on any other field, including spam.
|
| Claws Mail could benefit however from being ported to a cleaner
| and better thought interface such as Qt (sorry for GTK lovers
| but to me latest GTK versions are an abomination), and possibly
| incorporating a conversation mode, but I wouldn't sacrifice
| anything of what makes it so great to add those features.
| throwaway787544 wrote:
| I really liked the Claws UI. I stopped using it because I
| wanted something more portable with more features
| (Thunderbird), and the whole UI freeze single thread thing was
| a bit painful.
|
| I am personally only interested in technogy that makes me
| productive, not tech that looks good. I want to be on the
| computer for as little time as possible.
| nerdponx wrote:
| On the other hand, I am what you might call a "geek", and I
| find that Claws is actually lacking important features that I
| need, such as support for multiple "sending identities". I
| couldn't care less about the UI being pretty, but I do care
| about it being usable, and I care about it having the features
| that I want.
| leni536 wrote:
| I use claws with multiple sending identities.
| nerdponx wrote:
| How? I spent a long time trying to figure it out and
| searching docs.
| leni536 wrote:
| Add a new account, set protocol to "None (SMTP only)",
| set it up.
| mrspuratic wrote:
| I just use multiple "accounts", they don't necessarily
| need unique SMTP/IMAP settings. With more than one you
| get to pick a From: via drop-down in Compose, and you can
| also set (per-folder) the default account and/or
| CC:/Reply-to:
| squarefoot wrote:
| If by multiple identities you mean accounts, I currently use
| it with 4 accounts, each one with rules to receive mail to
| its own folder, and in the past have easily exceeded a dozen
| accounts.
|
| Also, backup and restore are super easy: just copy the
| ~/.claws_mail and ~/Mail directories and you're done:
| messages, attachments, accounts, contacts, everything.
| II2II wrote:
| > It is a shame that open source is much more of a subject in
| the world of programmers than in the world of user interface
| designers.
|
| Is that actually a disadvantage?
|
| Different people have different tastes. This is true for both
| the aesthetic and utilitarian aspects of user interface design.
| Our software should look and behave differently to reflect that
| reality, and the metric of success ought to be maintaining
| enough interest in the software to sustain its development. (In
| the case of open source software, that is attracting enough
| contributors. In the case of commercial software, that is
| attracting enough customers.)
|
| Indeed, attracting more people may be more of a detriment than
| anything else. It may alienate the most dedicated contributors
| or it may attract users who do not contribute. (How many times
| have we seen open source developers gripe about their product
| garnering users who place excessive demands upon them?)
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| You can also contribute to Claws Mail themes. [0]
|
| A set of icons/font would probably achieve the facelift you
| would like to see.
|
| [0] https://www.claws-mail.org/themes.php
| rollcat wrote:
| That's not the problem. That's like changing the color on the
| walls, in a house where the light switches were placed too
| high for small children to reach.
| bombcar wrote:
| Sounds like a dream house!
| trumpablehump wrote:
| Is that a problem though? Claws is great and I hope it will not
| get a dumbed down Gnome interface by someone on a Mac who does
| not even use the software they redesign, with buttons in
| unexpected places, unintuitive icons for the most basic
| functionality and its options limited to a maximum of 25
| because of some metric that says more options are hard to
| understand.
|
| Hyberbole, yes, but the interface of Claws is pretty much what
| makes me use it. It's blazingly fast and efficient. What would
| a re-design improve?
| mrweasel wrote:
| > What would a re-design improve
|
| That is exactly the question people often forget to answer.
| We see this with both software and webdesign. Stuff gets a
| facelife, because it doesn't follow the latest trends. During
| the process features or design decisions made previously is
| often ignore or forgot, because they don't fix the new
| "vision".
|
| In the case of Claws Mail an argument could be made for
| upgrading to a never version of GTK and get a facelift in the
| process. That could also hurt the users, if the UI move
| around to much, or break existing work-flows.
|
| There is a lot of value in a stable UI. You can get caught in
| old or even deprecated libraries and UI interaction, that's a
| risk. There is however also value in being conservative and
| consistent. If you take an application(/web-application) like
| Chrome or Gmail, and you haven't used that in a few years,
| then you'll get overwhelmed. Something like Claws Mail or
| TextMate doesn't have that issue, you learned the concepts
| years ago, and they are just a valid now as they where then.
| ajot wrote:
| > In the case of Claws Mail an argument could be made for
| upgrading to a never version of GTK and get a facelift in
| the process. That could also hurt the users, if the UI move
| around to much, or break existing work-flows.
|
| Since last year, they have a release branch (4.x.x) built
| with GTK+3. I know GTK 4 is on the way, but I think nobody
| is using it nowadays.
| ho_schi wrote:
| Gtk4 is just new. Adaption will require years.
| bbarnett wrote:
| What you're saying _may_ be true for some, but I personally don
| 't care.
|
| The UI is functional, simple, easy to use.
|
| What I do care about, what I fear, are UI changes which remove
| options, obscure clarity, make workflow difficult, which seems
| to be 99% of UI "improvements" these days.
|
| I _want_ descriptive text under or as buttons. I _want_ to see,
| and be able to easily grab and use a scrollbar.
|
| I want things like this, and more. At the very least, if not be
| default, by config options.
|
| But again, the ongoing trend seems to be not only to design for
| looks, not usage, but also prevent user change.
|
| I am so happy with claws, so please, I say this politely, _go
| away_ and take your UI thoughts with you.
|
| Please, I beg you.
| na85 wrote:
| The shitshow that happened to GNOME isn't the only way that
| UI improvements can go.
|
| Like it or not, irrespective of whether or not you personally
| care about UI/UX, lots of people do and bad UI/UX has turned
| away thousands of people from Linux and friends.
| lagrange77 wrote:
| He's talking about good UI and you're talking about bad UI.
| layer8 wrote:
| I haven't seen any modern UI for desktop apps which wasn't
| bad in the sense the parent meant: too little affordances,
| not following long-established OS conventions, not using
| the native controls and look&feel, not being keyboard-
| navigable, etc.
| quantum_magpie wrote:
| The main reason I've used claws for the last 12 years is
| because it looks elegant, clear, clean, simple, and _most
| important_ : consistent.
|
| It doesn't need a facelift or an overhaul! In fact, as soon
| as that happens I (and I suspect, majority of users) will
| leave it forever.
| heyoni wrote:
| It's almost impossible to make good UI without dumbing
| things way down. Either that or I'm lacking imagination.
| Maelcum wrote:
| Just look at the Date format field in the Preferences
| screenshot. It's really hard to not find a more user-
| friendly way to do it, IMHO.
|
| UI and UX matters more than developers care to admit.
| cuu508 wrote:
| Ok, I'll bite-
|
| What would be a functionally equivalent, but more user-
| friendly way to do it? (And preferably not 10x harder to
| implement)
| lagrange77 wrote:
| For example an additional drop-down menu with common date
| string formats, where the first entry is the OS default
| for the given locale.
|
| Additionally one could add a text label, which displays
| an example date formatted by the currently selected
| choice.
| mpol wrote:
| There was only mention of a facelift, which can be good or
| bad. And lots of facelifts nowadays are quite bad, so I
| understand the concern.
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| so, he is suggesting not to change anything about claws?
| :-)
| bastawhiz wrote:
| Just from the screenshots:
|
| - The same icons are recycled in multiple places, like queue
| and outbox. Why can't they get more icons? Why aren't they
| distinct?
|
| - Why is it called "trash" AND "wastebin" in the same place,
| with two different styles of icon?
|
| - Each of the "reply", "forward", etc buttons are all menu
| dropdowns. Each menu is a small click target. Why isn't this
| just an overflow menu? Why can't these be customized?
|
| - The "connected" icon at the bottom appears to be stolen
| from an ancient Mozilla build (though I'm unsure of the
| origin). Is that truly the best visual indicator for
| connectivity in the year 2022?
|
| - The inbox shows the _file size_ of emails in two separate
| places, with a precision that goes down to tens of bytes.
| Why?
|
| Your idea of good or bad UI doesn't consider that this UI
| already has things that could be net improved without
| actually removing or changing functionality. "Designed"
| implies that thought went into how it's used and looks.
| Nobody is advocating making it look like Material UI.
| al_borland wrote:
| I agree that the UI often holds back open source. When looking
| at the features of Claws, nothing is jumping out at me as both
| unique and something a lot of people would really like/need. Is
| there something specific you're seeing that you think people
| are missing out on due to the interface scaring them away?
| peppermint_tea wrote:
| A working, open source, fully featured email client... not
| much of them left after mozilla ditched thunderbird.
| gglitch wrote:
| I don't have an opinion on the discussion above, but want
| to point out that Thunderbird is still alive and well. I
| use it every day, and donate to it.
| classichasclass wrote:
| Likewise. Another T-Bird user here.
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(page generated 2022-06-10 23:01 UTC)