[HN Gopher] The $100K+ forgery scandal that's roiling PC game co...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The $100K+ forgery scandal that's roiling PC game collecting
        
       Author : DeadNeurons
       Score  : 99 points
       Date   : 2022-06-08 19:52 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | xwowsersx wrote:
       | Pardon my ignorance, but can someone explain what is forged
       | exactly? The packaging and/or CD or disks are forged?
        
         | unclekev wrote:
         | >can someone explain what is forged exactly?
         | 
         | The boxes and packaging, also most of the disks inside the
         | boxes were found to be blank.
        
       | drcode wrote:
       | I'd love to invest in a really nice fossil sometime to put on my
       | desk, maybe a small dinosaur skull or an unusually cool looking
       | trilobite
       | 
       | But I can never do this, because I could never feel certain that
       | I didn't purchase a forgery
        
         | Liquix wrote:
         | "You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I
         | put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is
         | juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I
         | realize..?
         | 
         | Ignorance is bliss."
         | 
         |  _- Cypher, The Matrix_
        
           | krustyburger wrote:
           | I'm, uh, not sure you're supposed to identify with that
           | character.
        
       | dubswithus wrote:
       | It's not hard for a charismatic person to fool a lot of very
       | intelligent people. Hardy Rodenstock fooled Michael Broadbent.
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Billionaires-Vinegar-Mystery-Worlds-E...
        
       | mattw2121 wrote:
       | One of the largest regrets I have is getting rid of all my Apple
       | ][e stuff. I kept it for years in attics as I moved from house to
       | house. I had a couple of ][e's, disk drives, ImageWriter printer,
       | Apple monitors, and so many original software titles including
       | manuals and boxes. (Of course I had 2-3 large boxes of copies
       | too).
       | 
       | About 5 years ago I was moving house and just got rid of
       | everything because I was tired of moving it. I started regretting
       | it 6 months later and even more today.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | The hardware might have been worth a lot to the right person,
         | but finding that connection is easier said than done.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | Everything old is cool and expensive again. This is why I hate
         | throwing stuff out. I hate how society denigrates hoarders.
         | They [the hoarders] were right.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | The problem is that the stuff probably isn't worth much--and it
         | probably isn't worth much to you either if it's gathering dust
         | in the attic. I keep a few old game boxes in my office
         | bookcase. I have a few old computers up in the attic. (An
         | Osborne someone gave me and a couple old DG/Ones. Also a huge
         | pile of laserdiscs and player.) Probably someone would love to
         | take off my hands and might even pay a few dollars. But there's
         | a very real limit to how much effort I'm going to put into
         | finding that person locally.
        
           | hotpotamus wrote:
           | I've heard some of the authors of the Multiple Arcade Machine
           | Emulator (MAME) project say that the main goal of the
           | software is to preserve the old hardware in code form; the
           | ability to play games on it is just a nice side effect. I
           | used to think that this was just a way of sidestepping piracy
           | debates, but having been around the block a time or two now,
           | I see some merit to it. But I suspect they still play games
           | on it ;)
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | The "huge pile" can actually make it easier - lay the
           | laserdiscs out on the floor, take a picture, sell the whole
           | thing as a lot on eBay. Sure there might be some rare ones or
           | something, but if there is that's just all the more likely to
           | help it sell.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | At some point, I'll probably take a shot at a local take it
             | or leave it first. Then maybe I'll decide it's worth
             | shipping for the right money.
        
         | InCityDreams wrote:
         | With reference to another post somewhere: I got rid of a $$$
         | guitar because 'i can only play one at a time', and i kept the
         | one i enjoyed (<$300) playing more. Dont regret a thing and i
         | dont see any lost $$. Quite the opposite. Good riddance to
         | something i wasn't using? Did i lose out? Nope. Not to me....i
         | could have dropped it the next day, or could've got stolen..
         | I'm very happy to consider anything i own as $0 value, despite
         | what i paid for it.
        
         | technothrasher wrote:
         | That would be "Apple //e". They stopped the brackets after the
         | Apple ][+ was discontinued.
         | 
         | Ok, yes, I'm still jealous that everybody else had a //e. I
         | also had the early Amiga 2000 with the bad ROM revision, the
         | base model NextStation, and I don't even want to talk about my
         | non-turbo Porsche 944.
        
         | sorenjan wrote:
         | You'll always have the memories of the good times you shared
         | together, and they're probably better than the real thing
         | anyway.
        
         | wiredfool wrote:
         | My childhood //e, duodisk, epson clone printer and monitor are
         | sitting in my parents garage. dusty, so the drives are probably
         | shot now.
         | 
         | They tossed the floppies about 5 years back, and that's
         | probably what I would have wanted to save. Custom lode runner
         | levels. That ultimate Iv saved game. The disks and disks of
         | AppleWorks docs.
        
         | _the_inflator wrote:
         | Same story here with my C64 and Amiga stuff. I did this around
         | 2010. I miss my C64, my Amiga. However, it was instrumental in
         | moving forward.
         | 
         | While it still hurts and emulators are a different beast, it
         | freed me. I filled the hole with doing modern stuff, like
         | learning JavaScript back then.
         | 
         | While I regret getting rid of my beloved hardware, I never
         | regret the decision to move forward.
        
         | Arrath wrote:
         | Sigh. My school's computer lab had a pile of dust covered Apple
         | ]['s sitting in the corner, circa 2005. I don't believe they'd
         | been plugged in since having been moved into the new building
         | ~1999. Myself and a friend offered to take them off the
         | school's hands and free up the space, but were denied for <red
         | tape bullshit>.
        
         | II2II wrote:
         | I sometimes have similar regrets, but remind myself that I can
         | do far better things without the baggage of that old stuff.
         | After all, what I truly miss is the spirit of the era rather
         | than the physical artifacts. Much of that can be recreated by
         | other means: emulation for the software, and electronics for
         | the hardware.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | I'm more of the Marie Kondo style but couldn't get rid of the
         | computers of my childhood: Atari 600 XL, Commodore 128, Amiga
         | 500, Ti 99/4a (although that one I bought only a few years
         | ago). My most prized possession is a very rare 5"1/4 floppy
         | disk reader for the _Amiga_ (which was supposed to have 3 "1/2
         | floppies): not the official Commodore 5"1/4 floppy disk reader
         | (also a rarity) but a bootleg one.
         | 
         | I've got two big boxes and when I move to another country,
         | these come with me. We've already done three countries
         | together. The Atari 600 XL and the Commodore 128 were still
         | working during the first lockdown (I was stuck at home and took
         | the time to test them).
         | 
         | Once in a rare while I boot the non-modded, time capsule, C128
         | of my teenage years and launch the game Commando just to hear
         | the song on the SID chip.
         | 
         | I take it they still bring me some joy!
        
         | bowmessage wrote:
         | Got rid of it - did you sell it, donate it, throw it away?
        
           | mattw2121 wrote:
           | Just left in the last attic :(
        
       | popotamonga wrote:
       | I still have an unopened nes with supermario+pistol and duck hunt
       | i was given when i was 8 wonder if its worth anything
        
         | blastro wrote:
         | there's more to this story
        
       | interlocutor2 wrote:
       | I'm not a collector.
       | 
       | I don't understand I don't understand paying a premium for a rare
       | or old item that is easily replicated. The same goes for art
       | forgeries. Why not buy a reproduction? There is no difference in
       | the functional value of the item before and after this
       | revelation. I assume these games are available for emulation. I'm
       | sick of people bsing and scamming each other by turning fun
       | things into investment vehicles.
        
         | guardiangod wrote:
         | >I don't understand I don't understand paying a premium for a
         | rare or old item that is easily replicated.
         | 
         | I once worked at the library of a university. Part of my job
         | was to check the catalogue against the actual bookshelves to
         | make sure the books are physically present.
         | 
         | So I got to social science section. In particular the Communist
         | Manifesto by Karl Marx.
         | 
         | Now this is an national university with >170 years of history.
         | The spreadsheet in my hand showed that there should be 9 copies
         | of the 1908 edition on the shelf.
         | 
         | I found none.
         | 
         | Every copy has been stolen. The irony of this is just too much.
         | Communism supporters stealing from the general public to
         | satisfy their personal desire of collection.
         | 
         | Aside. A regret I have was not checking out 'The Hitler Youth'
         | at the same time. Although I suspect the university might have
         | removed them from the shelves.
        
           | the_lonely_road wrote:
           | Why must they be communism supporters? I would like a copy
           | for my collection and am an avid proponent of capitalism.
        
             | guardiangod wrote:
             | Fine. People would make the altruistic decision for the
             | good of the greater public by not stealing from the general
             | public (the university library).
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | Extremely relevant:
               | https://web.mit.edu/allanmc/www/benjamin.pdf
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | To each according to their needs == take the book if you need
           | it.
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | I tend to stay away from anything that's marketed as
         | (Rare|Vintage|Antique|Original). It means there's a price
         | premium, above and beyond functionality and use value, which
         | I'm by default unwilling to pay (e.g. musical instruments,
         | cameras, etc - when I pick up a new hobby, I tend to go through
         | a fairly large number of things through Kijiji to try them out
         | and get a feel, until I settle on something that works for me
         | long term:)
         | 
         | That being said, I understand in principle that there's an
         | extra emotion & joy to be had with something possessing one of
         | those attributes. Perhaps I'd enjoy a book signed by Arthur C.
         | Clarke or guitar used by Mark Knopfler - though I'd make a
         | point to read/play them rather than hide and never touch. On
         | any given day, I have higher priorities for my money. Others
         | with more money or different priorities, however, will make
         | different choices.
         | 
         | (This simplistic framework is complicated by the notion of
         | "Value" of course; some people believe, or tell themselves,
         | that this is an "Investment"; like many things, this then
         | becomes a abstract tower built on mutual belief, and people
         | become invested [har] in believing ever so strongly. This can
         | lead to interesting conversations unless & until you realize
         | you have different axiomatic principles / beliefs / value
         | perception).
        
         | danuker wrote:
         | Not only is there no functional advantage to buying the real
         | thing, there is no easy way to prove for certain that you have
         | the real thing, so even speculation is difficult.
        
         | hydrok9 wrote:
         | The thrill of owning something significant is the reason. It's
         | like owning a piece of history.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | It's more like owning an NFT...
           | 
           | The value of history is the story, which doesn't need to be
           | attached to the object.
        
             | yieldcrv wrote:
             | One thing I find interesting about NFT collections is that
             | the only reason it gets detractors attention is because it
             | works .... so well? Like, we have _no idea_ how much the
             | baseball card issuing organization made, especially not in
             | real time. We have no idea the total supply, or revenue or
             | trading volume. In NFTs we have that instantly.
             | 
             | I think the NFT space just provides transparency into the
             | size of the existing collectibles market.
             | 
             | Even the proxies we have for digital gaming stuff is just
             | buried deep in quarterly reports of a few publicly traded
             | companies.
             | 
             | Most of the facepalm worthy NFT headlines would be non-news
             | if we even had the ability to compare it to the pre-
             | existing collections market.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | Then don't collect :)
         | 
         | If replicas and copies of the thing make you happy, do that,
         | other people do see value in originals, that's ok too.
        
         | raspyberr wrote:
         | And that's the reason I think copyright should be about 10
         | years. People value "authenticity" even when it doesn't make
         | sense. There's just something about having the "original" or
         | the "true" one. With that in mind, I think that writers would
         | still be able to sell their books and sequels even after other
         | writers get access to their characters and worlds. It's almost
         | like fanfiction vs actual author. Anyone could write The Winds
         | of Winter. Someone somewhere probably has. But if they were
         | able to release it alongside G.R.R. Martin, I know who I'd bet
         | on having more sales.
        
           | ManBlanket wrote:
           | I'd prefer if someone who knew how to finish story without
           | killing off the protagonist wrote this novel he's never going
           | to write. It worked ONCE, one time. When Ned Stark was
           | executed it was genuinely surprising and that first book was
           | good enough to inspire many to finish the whole saga. By the
           | end second novel I got the impression he was just trying to
           | recycle the same story, peppering-in bits he picked up from
           | writing workshops. Trying desperately to make new characters
           | people might care about after killing-off anyone interesting.
           | He has no idea how to finish a story other than an abrupt
           | death. Woah, but wait but now Caitlin's a zombie or some
           | shit... Yeah, no. Last you'll ever hear of that. I didn't
           | realize what was going on until I went to an open mic comedy
           | night. There was a shocking number of comedians who could
           | draw you into a joke with a compelling hook, but only
           | precious who could follow up with a real joke. The thought
           | occurred to me, "This is Martin. A comedian who can't figure
           | out how a joke works." He wrote 1 good book but never grew as
           | an author. Now he's rich and old and I don't blame him if
           | couldn't be bothered to give a shit. Oy, what am I even
           | talking about now? Eh, I think a spiritual successor could
           | take GoT a lot further than he ever will.
        
             | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
             | > could take GoT a lot further
             | 
             | Why would you want to do that? That horse is tired, that
             | cow is milked, give it a rest.
             | 
             | But hey, I had David Gerrold's War Against the Chtorr for
             | training wheels ;-)
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | How could someone read 1,2, or more books of GoT -- one of
             | the greatest literary works of realism in character and
             | worldbuilding -- and presumably enjoy them, and think that
             | a tidy, satisfying ending is something possible, or even
             | desirable.
        
         | sumy23 wrote:
         | What if you could perfectly replicate a loved one. Would you
         | consider the replica equivalent to the original person? At
         | least to me, there is something special and important in
         | knowing that the original person was a part of my personal
         | history. It's not about how they look or act, but it's our
         | common context that's important.
        
           | InvertedRhodium wrote:
           | How would you know which one was the replica, and which on
           | you had special attachment to?
        
             | sumy23 wrote:
             | You might not be able to tell. Just the existence of an
             | indistinguishable copy could ruin your relationship with
             | this person.
        
           | scotty79 wrote:
           | > Would you consider the replica equivalent to the original
           | person?
           | 
           | Yes. How could you not?
           | 
           | My loved one died. If there was perfect replica of her
           | somewhere ready to spin up how could I not consider her
           | equivalent to original person?
        
             | sumy23 wrote:
             | Part of what makes loved ones special is that they're
             | unique. We give people names because they're unique. We
             | don't name things like bananas because they're fungible.
             | Perhaps if you had the only one copy of a loved one, you
             | could love that person as much as the original, but if
             | loved ones could be copied arbitrarily, I think something
             | would be lost.
        
               | lupire wrote:
        
             | sjburt wrote:
             | What if they are two? Or 100? With different experiences
             | post replication?
        
               | plasticchris wrote:
               | Calvin and Hobbes have this deep philosophical question
               | it's best treatment imho
               | 
               | https://calvinandhobbes.fandom.com/wiki/Duplicator
        
             | plasticchris wrote:
             | I'm not even a perfect replica of myself from a few minutes
             | ago.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | But that goes even deeper into a bit of the weird aspect of
           | collecting. If I have _my_ original 386 laying around, that
           | is _mine_ and is the one I used; if I get _another_ one, even
           | if it is the same make and model, it wasn 't _mine_ and so it
           | 's basically just a copy.
           | 
           | Part of it, of course, can be the "I couldn't get this when I
           | was young, now I can" which drives up a lot of prices on old
           | Lego sets, but there's more to it than just that, especially
           | when collectors start buying items because they're rare, not
           | because they once had them or wanted them.
        
           | CyanBird wrote:
           | > Would you consider the replica equivalent to the original
           | person?
           | 
           | Everyone would do this unless you believed in the intrinsic
           | nature of soul
           | 
           | Humans are the sum of their lived experiences and
           | epigenetics, so if you could replicate both, to you as an
           | observer what would be the difference?
        
           | ManBlanket wrote:
           | If they were indeed a perfect replica that fact wouldn't
           | matter. They wouldn't know if they were a replica, you
           | wouldn't, and only a 3rd party could ever tell you they
           | weren't the person you love. At that point learning whether
           | or not this person standing in front of you is a replica can
           | only harm either party. Would you really subject yourselves
           | to that information if it could only hurt someone you
           | objectively love? It's not a light choice to be considered
           | selfishly in a vacuum, because even if they are a replica
           | they're still perfect and a person you genuinely do love. Why
           | on earth would you want to learn something that would make
           | you not love them, that would alienate them from their entire
           | sense of self? Even if is the truth, nobody stands to gain
           | from the information. So long as neither of you can tell the
           | difference, the truth doesn't doesn't matter. Pretty sure
           | this exact subject comes up in like 2 or 3 episodes of Rick
           | and Morty.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | The real risk with a replica is that you might later
             | discover it is actually flawed in a functional way.
             | 
             | That's why Amazon.com counterfeits are bad.
             | 
             | But this risk doesn't really apply to video game boxes.
        
           | stickfigure wrote:
           | I hate to be the one to tell you but...
           | 
           | Every time your loved one respirates, ingests food, and
           | defecates, a portion of their body is replaced. The material
           | person you know now may be completely different from the
           | person you fell in love with.
        
             | sumy23 wrote:
             | It's not about the physical material, but rather the
             | history, like the ship of Theseus.
        
       | TylerE wrote:
       | Hardly unique to gaming.
       | 
       | In the guitar world it's a running joke that only 5000 of the the
       | 1500 1959 Gibson Les Paul's survive.
       | 
       | ($$$$, 6 digit prices for real ones is the rule, and top examples
       | go for $500k+).
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | It has been said you could build a nice house out of the
         | fragments of the True Cross on display throughout the world.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | I wonder how much fragments would be worth at auction (i'm
           | sure Paul Allen tried and was denied)
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | And the buddha would have to have been 10 feet tall for all
           | the relics in the various stupas of the world to be real.
           | 
           | Frankly though, I consider authenticity overrated.
        
           | sweettea wrote:
           | One Charles de Fleury catalogued pieces of the true cross in
           | the 1800s and found them to sum to 2% of a plausibly sized
           | cross, not the oft-repeated claim that they add up to a large
           | ship, or a nice house:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Cross#Dispersal_of_relics
           | paragraph 6. While perhaps biased, it does seem plausible
           | that a cataloguing of such claimed relics today would add up
           | to a similar total volume.
        
             | TheCoelacanth wrote:
             | The famous John Calvin quote about relics comes from 1543,
             | and many of the other quotes come from before 1000, while
             | that catalogue is from the 1870.
             | 
             | In between comes the Protestant Reformation, more than a
             | century of religious wars across all of Europe where one
             | side in many cases actively sought to destroy relics and
             | the gradual conversion to Islam of many densely populated
             | Christian areas.
             | 
             | A catalogue from the 1870 is next to worthless for telling
             | us how many relics existed in the early 1500s.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | I suspect the saying comes from a time more in the past
             | when many _many_ false relics would abound. Once the fervor
             | around them died off, any ones deemed fake would disappear
             | from circulation and the total amount would dwindle.
        
               | jjoonathan wrote:
               | Well, the total amount would dwindle.
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | Since the fragments were said to come from a single piece
             | of wood in Constantinople (see the article linked above),
             | it is not that surprising that their sum would be
             | reasonable. Clearer-cut and a little more entertaining are
             | the thirty or more "holy nails:"
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Nail
             | 
             | That said, I'd like to know the carbon date on those wooden
             | fragments.
        
         | pwython wrote:
         | I just watched a video a few days ago comparing a $200 guitar
         | to a $200,000 (Hauser) guitar.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPY9Mxg3OJQ
         | 
         | Long story short, go for the $700-$2k guitar unless you're an
         | "art collector" that will never play it.
         | 
         | Then again, I doubt many people can tell the difference between
         | a $200 guitar and a $700 one.
        
         | _the_inflator wrote:
         | Same goes for vinyl. I love techno music from the 90th. It
         | seems that there is an abundance of vinyl that magically
         | survived 20 years of niche existence.
         | 
         | Especially records from the legendary Harthouse label, seems to
         | be ubiquitously available. Harthouse was famous for its limited
         | edition policy and restricted selling of its records. They were
         | very selective and that's how the famous "sound of Frankfurt"
         | was born: access to Harthouse records was limited, and
         | distribution took mainly place here in Frankfurt. It was tough
         | back then to buy certain records even in the famous Delirium
         | store.
         | 
         | Nowadays you simply place an order in the Internets...
        
       | Victerius wrote:
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | IANA game collector so take my comment with a grain of salt,
         | but no the goal is usually _not_ to play the game. Playing the
         | game could damage /harm the original media. Many times the
         | original shrink wrap hasn't even been removed.
         | 
         | There are definitely some collectors who do play the games so
         | this is not a universal statement.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | If it's _exceptionally_ rare, the collector will often work
           | to make an image of the data (which is how the rare one
           | discussed was found, the image revealed a pirate copy).
        
         | daperor630 wrote:
         | Well, that's just it though. The packaging, storage medium, art
         | and documents that come with these games are not identical, and
         | in a couple examples given the game data is either corrupted,
         | or of a pirated and modified version of the game.
         | 
         | To draw an analogy, if I was a collector of vinyl records and I
         | purchased a first edition album that actually turned out to be
         | a poorly reproduced print made from modern MP3 files, with a
         | label that was printed by some dude's inkjet printer at home, I
         | would be furious.
        
         | biot wrote:
         | When a collector purchases the Ship of Theseus, they expect to
         | get the Ship of Theseus, not some mere copy.
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | I see what you did there.
        
         | 101008 wrote:
         | Because that's the point of collecting. You do not purchase the
         | material, but the history of the item. I say this as a book
         | collector of first edition (among other stuff): I understand
         | second printing may be identical to the first printing (or even
         | better in some quality aspects), but the thrill of buying
         | something that has history is what makes interesting.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | _You do not purchase the material, but the history of the
           | item._
           | 
           | I don't really buy that for functional objects. I've restored
           | old Teletype machines, some almost a century old, and
           | provenance is not a big issue. In fact, because of the way
           | they were maintained, many are not an original set. There are
           | four main components of a Model 15, keyboard, typing unit,
           | base, and motor. All are field-replaceable, and the first two
           | are easily swappable without tools. Maintenance was often a
           | swap, not field repair. The units went back to a repair
           | depot, were repaired, cleaned, and oiled, and then went to
           | another rental customer. Retired machines rarely have the
           | original subunit combo, and nobody cares.
        
             | sodality2 wrote:
             | Is a video game any more of a "functional" item than a
             | book? Or a vinyl record, in another analogy given in this
             | thread?
        
           | Victerius wrote:
           | Well, if we were talking about century old paintings or art
           | pieces I might understand, but 20-30 year old _video
           | games_.......
           | 
           | It's just not the same.
        
             | synu wrote:
             | Is there some specific date where you would allow for
             | collectors to value an object? A 40 year old book? A 50
             | year old car? A Magic the Gathering card from 31 years ago?
             | An arcade console from 35? I'm curious what the calculus is
             | here because it seems quite specific.
        
               | Victerius wrote:
               | It's quite subjective. It comes down to how popular
               | culture romanticizes a thing. Popular culture has
               | romanticized 50 year old cars, or old books, but it
               | hasn't romanticized 35 year old gaming consoles. Why that
               | is, I couldn't say.
        
               | sushid wrote:
               | How can you say that when there clearly is a market where
               | people are willing to pay 5-6 figures for a videogame?
        
               | synu wrote:
               | It has though, clearly. That people are buying them and
               | this article exists is the most obvious evidence, but
               | there's a whole retrograming subculture out there who
               | collects and plays with this stuff. Ready Player One was
               | a recent retrogaming pop culture phenomenon. Try
               | searching for a 35 year old console on eBay and be amazed
               | at what you find.
        
             | freedomben wrote:
             | In many ways it's exactly the same. They're both art, both
             | created by the original "artist."
             | 
             | But it's normal for most people to think collectors of
             | certain items are silly. I used to collect books, and most
             | people think it's utterly stupid to obtain books and only
             | read copies of them rather than the original (opening a
             | binding causes it to deteriorate a little bit).
        
             | justsomehnguy wrote:
             | Your walls are compatible with 30 y.o. paintings, along
             | with a century old, five centuries old or even a
             | prehistoric ones (if you manage to find such).
             | 
             | 99% of 20 y.o. games aren't compatible with anything newer
             | than a 2010's hardware and for 30 year old games you can't
             | even copy/try to run them on anything modern - floppies
             | died ~2010.
             | 
             | 20 y.o. video games are roughly equivalent of Late modern
             | period art.
             | 
             | 30 y.o. video games are somewhere between the classical
             | antiquity and the Middle ages.
             | 
             | 40 y.o. are closer to Egyptian Pyramids.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Plus anything more than 20 years old looks wrong on a
               | non-crt
        
             | hydrok9 wrote:
             | It's the same as in you are owning a piece of history
             | (20-30 years ago is a LONG time ago in video games)
        
             | LosWochosWeek wrote:
             | > It's just not the same.
             | 
             | To you.
        
             | lapetitejort wrote:
             | At one point, centuries old paintings were 20-30 years old.
             | Someone made a conscious decision to keep them in pristine
             | condition.
        
               | Victerius wrote:
               | To be fair, that's about all you can do with a painting:
               | hanging it on a wall and keeping it clean. A better way
               | for me to read your comment is: "No one made the decision
               | to throw them out with the garbage."
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | And many of them weren't considered special at the time.
               | 
               | Van Gogh died a pauper, not having sold a single work
               | during his short life.
        
         | ev1 wrote:
         | The content on the cassettes is random recording noise and not
         | a playable game.
         | 
         | The content on the disks are cracked copies that contain
         | missing or modified data and are not the original game.
        
           | Victerius wrote:
           | Ah okay then I can understand. If the product is
           | intentionally broken then it's fraud.
        
             | synu wrote:
             | It's fraud also if it's a forgery, even if the game worked.
             | It was represented as an original when it was sold, not a
             | high quality modern copy.
        
             | ev1 wrote:
             | Also yes, in the case of collecting, the point is "acquire
             | bragging rights about an old object just because it's an
             | original copy"
             | 
             | If you wanted to just play it you'd just play it in an
             | emulator.
             | 
             | I will point out that the history of video games is not
             | that old in itself, meaning a several decade old game is
             | falling into the "one of the first games made" vintage
             | tier.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Yeah, the case of "this is something we knew existed but
             | didn't have a copy of" makes a lot more sense than "I want
             | to be one of 20 people who own a copy of this thing". Even
             | the collectors openly admit to actually playing the games
             | via emulators.
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | The goal of collecting is not to actually use the thing. It
         | loses its value if you do. (This makes the whole thing bonkers,
         | IMO.)
         | 
         | Also, the packaging apparently wasn't identical. It was hand-
         | cut at least some of the time and imperfect.
        
           | lapetitejort wrote:
           | There are as many goals in collecting as there are
           | collectors. Many collectors do not want to use their items as
           | some of the items are pushing 40 years old and will not last
           | forever. Every disc read and manual flip subtracts from their
           | life. This may all sound silly, but compare this to Silent
           | Era films. 75% of films from that time period are gone,
           | forever [0]. We are still in the beginnings of the medium of
           | games and we could fall prey to the same mistakes as previous
           | mediums. Some section of the medium must get locked down so
           | that future historians can study them in as much detail as
           | possible.
           | 
           | [0]:
           | https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2013/12/most-
           | ame...
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | One advantage we have is the rapid increase in digital
             | storage space means that many of these will _not_ be lost
             | if we can get them imaged, many people can each have a copy
             | of almost every known NES game in only a few hundred
             | megabytes.
        
               | lapetitejort wrote:
               | What will be lost are the manuals, boxes, cloth maps.
               | little post card inserts for some random warranty or
               | club, and most importantly, the physical feel of all
               | these things. That is the primary thing collectors want
               | to preserve.
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | The thing is, these are so arbitrary.
               | 
               | I like buying used (not collectible) books, and once in a
               | while I find artifacts used as bookmarks - a store
               | receipt, an airline boarding pass, a newspaper clipping.
               | These objects are fascinating to me; I'm briefly
               | transported into the world of the person who originally
               | bought the book and how different it seems from that of
               | today. The details of the 'bonus item' are like clues to
               | the identity of the mysterious reader that preceded me,
               | whose identity and trajectory are as entertaining to
               | speculate about as as the fictional or theoretical
               | subject matter of the book itself.
               | 
               | Over time, everything becomes an antique; competitive
               | collecting (for well-defined subsets of items in a niche
               | market) is arguably a way for people of similar
               | temperaments and taste to locate each other socially, but
               | the more effort they invest in this (by developing
               | catalogues or price histories of their favored artifacts)
               | the more likely they are to be crowded out speculators
               | who recognize the hallmarks of an asset class without
               | especially caring what they are attached to.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | There's something to the novelty of the old - I found a
               | one cent coupon for Lysol or something like that inside
               | the wall of the kitchen.
               | 
               | No expiration date - I should try to use it!
        
       | datalopers wrote:
       | Clearly they should have included an authenticity NFT printed on
       | synthetic polymers that can survive heat and strong electrical
       | fields with embedded NFC chips for multisig validation.
        
       | barnacled wrote:
       | As somebody who has started collecting ultima box sets recently
       | (pure nostalgia loved them as a kid) it's been mad to see how
       | ultima 5 has gone from PS50 when I bought it a few years ago to
       | maybe even PS250+ now. I was hoping I could got all of the
       | ultimas but this makes me realise that 1 - 3 are probably out of
       | reach (let alone akalabeth!)
        
       | Ekaros wrote:
       | I really wonder how many of these one can make and sell and is it
       | really worth all the effort to go thorough the whole thing? At
       | least from time and resources spend.
       | 
       | Probably, still seems like quite a bit of work to get even this
       | level.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I could certainly see someone doing something like this _to
         | keep the real one for themselves_ at low to no cost.
         | 
         | Get super rare game for $10k, make as perfect a copy of it as
         | you can, sell the copy for $10k, keep the original, even if
         | privately.
         | 
         | But if you're doing that, you wouldn't need to make disks
         | containing obvious fakes.
        
         | donthellbanme wrote:
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | The fact that all of these are in pristine condition should have
       | been a black flag earlier. The whole commercial grading system is
       | a joke but if only a handful of copies exist at all then it's
       | extremely surprising that all of them are mint or near mint in
       | condition after more than 30 years.
        
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