[HN Gopher] The firefly population could be declining
___________________________________________________________________
The firefly population could be declining
Author : dontbenebby
Score : 210 points
Date : 2022-06-07 11:49 UTC (11 hours ago)
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| ortusdux wrote:
| I'm in the planning/permitting phase of building a greenhouse and
| an entomologist friend has agreed to help me try and raise some
| of fireflies. They are native to my area, but only locals over
| the age of 50 remember seeing them.
| christophilus wrote:
| Related (I think): I had a pest control salesman come to my door
| and explain, "We're different from your average company. Most
| companies just spray a little around your house to keep bugs from
| getting in, but we treat your entire yard."
|
| I was floored.
|
| When I explained, "We go out of our way to create insect habitat
| in our yard," his smile twitched and he realized he had no way of
| closing the sale.
|
| But I'm simply amazed such practices are legal. "Hey! How about
| we spray a neurotoxin all over your yard? I'm sure that won't
| cause any unforeseen problems."
| sizzle wrote:
| yeah also kids and pets playing in your yard are now exposed to
| these crap chemicals and the health consequences are for life.
| aftbit wrote:
| We had a similar high-pressure close-now kind of pest salesman
| who showed up. He talked about how there were spiders in our
| doorway and his company would spray and remove them all. I just
| told him "I like my spiders" and shut the door in his face.
| Good riddance.
| mark-r wrote:
| I've had two of those just last week. Like they think I'm
| scared of spiders? As far as I'm concerned, if a spider is
| finding enough to eat it's doing me a favor.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| I had someone in a Verizon uniform bang on my door after
| nightfall, then one of my neighbors refuse to usher him out
| of the building as one of their customers used their Verizon
| supplied telephone connection to threaten to kill me.
|
| (I filed a police report, but folks don't seem to take it
| seriously.)
|
| I'm thankful that aside from that, the number of spammy
| people in or around my home has Markedly decreased lately,
| but not as much as I'd like.
|
| Edit: They might not have been Canadian, so edited "non-US".
|
| If they're here, authorized, it shouldn't matter where
| they're from if there is not a language barrier.
| hunter-gatherer wrote:
| I had a similar contact a month ago with a neighboor regarding
| my dandilion population, which had brought in a crazy amount of
| bees and other insects. Also the front yard looked pretty--just
| tons of yellow flowers. Anyways, he asked me if I wanted him to
| come over and spray my yard with some sort of stuff to kill the
| weeds. I just looked at him with a puzzled look and replied
| "You are asking me if I want you to come and spread poison all
| over my yard where my kids and dog play???" He realized
| immediately that I wasn't a lawn person, and backed off.
| JJMcJ wrote:
| Some localities, especially with HOAs, forbid what you are
| doing.
| account-5 wrote:
| Out of interest how are they going to stop you from not
| allowing weeds/flowers to grow?
| MadcapJake wrote:
| Have had this happen to me from city and town ordinances.
| They send a lawnmowing company and bill you for it.
| therealdrag0 wrote:
| Sheesh. Makes me think Childish Gambino could write a
| "this is America" alternative about crazy housing things.
| j79 wrote:
| They'll fine you for the violation and/or send a company
| to remove the weeds/flowers and fine you for the service.
|
| HOAs have a ton of "power" and it's why subreddits like
| https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckHOA/ exist.
| Loughla wrote:
| Fines, usually. Enforcement without your consent, at your
| cost, is an option. They could sue you. They can place a
| lien against your property. Some could have you evicted.
|
| HOA's are the worst way of making sure people don't treat
| their property like shit. Better ways include: fostering
| a sense of community. Communicating with your neighbors.
| And finally, minding your own damned business.
| Spivak wrote:
| > fostering a sense of community. Communicating with your
| neighbors
|
| Look, I loathe HOA's as much as the next person but this
| doesn't pass the Chesterton's Fence test. If your
| alternative doesn't handle the case of an uncooperative
| antagonistic neighbor then it won't at all be persuasive
| to someone is pro-HOA. "Just stop caring about the
| problem that HOA's were established to solve" only sounds
| good to people who arlready agree with you.
| nescioquid wrote:
| Sure, the "And finally, minding your own damned business"
| was probably aimed at the pro-HOA. Honestly, if there's a
| problem you can't work out with a neighbor, and you don't
| have a legal basis for demanding anything, then put up
| with it.
|
| If the homeowner having rights is a problem, I suppose an
| HOA solves for that, otherwise I don't understand why the
| pro-HOA view need to be privileged at all.
| acdanger wrote:
| Just echoing what's already been said: on my parents' small
| Virginia farm growing up during the 90s, fields of fireflies all
| summer long. Now, I'm lucky to see one or two when I visit. Same
| story with frogs, toads, snakes, bats, etc.
| nervousvarun wrote:
| and probably birds. the die-off is all-encompassing.
|
| except crows. somehow crows endure.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Crows, cockroaches, twinkies, and Keith Richards; the only
| survivors of the apocalypse.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| I have a similar experience in the Richmond suburbs. On the
| upside, DC does not have as much of a mosquito problem as it
| used to.
| everdrive wrote:
| This has certainly been my anecdotal observation as well. As with
| other flying interests. Another eventual loss from our world.
| This won't be the last.
| moron4hire wrote:
| I wonder if firefly broods are on multi-year cycles like cicadas.
| Like others in this thread have said, I've seen huge firefly,
| erh, "blooms", 25 and 15 years ago. After the first one, and then
| subsequent years of not seeing such huge numbers, I thought I'd
| never see another one again. Unfortunately, I didn't have any
| chance to be out in some random field in Pennsylvania 5 years
| ago.
|
| They're definitely overall decreasing in numbers, though. 25
| years ago was particularly big, but we still had fireflies every
| year after that. The last few years, I've found it pretty rare to
| see a firefly at all.
| mberning wrote:
| It does seem to fluctuate from year to year.
| lambic wrote:
| You can't take the sky from me.
| jt2190 wrote:
| > People can help with firefly conservation by avoiding
| pesticides, [Marten Edwards, professor of biology at Muhlenberg
| College] said, and turning off outdoor lights, which confuse the
| bugs' mating habits.
|
| > Another way to help, he said, is to planting trees and native
| grasses, and to allow log and leaf litter to accumulate.
|
| > "They prefer longer grass and they like to be in the leaf
| litter from the leaves that have fallen from last year" ...
| throwaway892238 wrote:
| And watch where you step! Females stay on the ground and males
| fly around to find them. There are very few females for each
| male, so if you capture or kill a firefly on the ground, that
| has an outsized effect on their reproduction.
|
| Use red outdoor lights instead of white to prevent them from
| getting confused. Absolutely turn off those huge floodlights
| people seem to love keeping on all night.
| happimess wrote:
| I am very grateful that I can add "don't you like fireflies?"
| to my list of reasons people should turn off their
| floodlights.
| fullstop wrote:
| I live near Muhlenberg, oddly enough, and I have a _lot_ of
| fireflies in my yard.
|
| edit: Here's some that my daughter captured. Don't worry, we
| released them! https://i.imgur.com/1ol4d6C.mp4
| smcl wrote:
| I was shocked when I saw them on holiday in Slovakia once. I
| really thought they were a USA or a jungle thing, had no idea
| we had them in Europe.
| fullstop wrote:
| I worked with a guy from Germany about 20 years ago, before
| it was as easy find this sort of information online. I
| asked him if they had fireflies in Germany and he kind of
| scoffed and told me "Of course we have them over there!"
|
| He didn't know, at the time, that they were extremely rare
| starting somewhere west of the Mississippi river.
| msrenee wrote:
| Are you saying they're rare west of the Mississippi or
| East of it? They were thick in the Midwest until
| recently.
| fullstop wrote:
| Somewhere west of the Mississippi. I had also read
| "western Kansas" was the point at which they drop off
| considerably.
| msrenee wrote:
| I suppose it's west of the Mississippi, but it's a long
| ways west. I'd imagine it's around the 100th meridian
| then. That goes through the middle of Kansas and is where
| you start to expect to see more western species as you
| travel west past it and vice versa.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| >People can help with firefly conservation by avoiding
| pesticides
|
| I remember in the 90s, you'd be walking home and every lawn
| pretty much had signs to not go on the grass or you'd get a
| chemical rash/burn and have to go to the township hospital.
| (After being chewed out by a series of Moms for being dumb
| and/or rude.)
|
| Mine family was one of the few that didn't, but mine was the
| parent that got cancer, it's one of the reasons I believe in
| universal healthcare.
| hedora wrote:
| I've started seeing those signs again, but now they proudly
| proclaim that whatever they sprayed is "organic". (Same
| warnings about not getting near it, etc...)
| [deleted]
| thedougd wrote:
| You mean, lightning bugs? { Starting a regional dialect flame war
| }
|
| Map showing which term (or both) are used across the United
| States:
|
| https://homegrown.extension.ncsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021...
| swayvil wrote:
| They're 2 different things. Different bug. Different glow
| color. Different arrangement of the glowpods.
|
| Lightning bugs in florida, fireflies in the north. At least in
| my experience.
|
| There are also worms that glow.
| reportingsjr wrote:
| Firefly and lightning bug are 100% interchangable here in
| Kentucky/Ohio, both referring to the same group of glowing
| beetles.
| swayvil wrote:
| There's this beetle that glows greenish. From 2 panels on
| its abdomen. And this other, much squishier, beetle that
| glows yellowish. From basically it's whole backend. So
| that's 2, whatever you call them.
| nanny wrote:
| No, you're wrong. There are many, many species of beetles
| (thousands) that are called lightning bugs/fireflies. The
| terms are interchangeable, as they refer to any species
| in the entire family.
| dylan604 wrote:
| If it glows and it's a bug that flies, it's a lightning
| bug/firefly interchangeably where I grew up. I don't care
| if it has 8 legs, 6 legs, 3 body parts, or whatever. If
| it blinks in the dark and I could run around and catch
| it, maybe sometimes squish it and rub the glowy stuff on
| like war paint, then that's all that mattered. You
| sciencey types that like to argue on the interwebs are
| just weird no fun having fuddyduddies. =)
| 0des wrote:
| I think they are jackdaws, not ravens
| lbotos wrote:
| https://www.prevention.com/life/a36677874/firefly-vs-
| lightni...
|
| What's the two species?
|
| As someone who grew up in the northeast I called them
| lightning bugs as a kid.
| adamc wrote:
| Both terms were in wide use in the Chicago area.
| TheFreim wrote:
| Where I live everyone uses lightning bugs and fireflies
| interchangeably. Real arguments occur in the realm of duck duck
| grey duck VS duck duck goose.
| jaywalk wrote:
| Who the hell calls it duck duck grey duck? I've literally
| never heard it called that before.
| fluctor wrote:
| It's a Minnesota thing.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Of course it is dontchaknow
| dontbenebby wrote:
| >Real arguments occur in the realm of duck duck grey duck
|
| Duck duck _grey_ duck?. I normally strive for civility
| online, but I think you 're lying and challenge you to a
| duel.
|
| To be clear, I'm joking about the duel, but seriously: who
| the heck says "duck duck grey"?
|
| Earlier today someone asked in another thread on this site if
| I had had too much coffee -- the REAL issue is that I'm out
| of weed so I can't ramp down from my flow state[-1], and it's
| been my experience in STEM that nothing is taboo if the
| context is romantic. (It really grinds my gears that there
| seem to be no limits to the fun some people will have at
| others' expense.[0])
|
| Reminds me of when someone claimed I "press stalked" them
| when all I did was look up their address before going over
| to... uh... "date" them, because I wanted to check they
| weren't just luring me out of my safe house to kill me, and
| every search engine I tried turned up basically no hits on
| that phrasal verb[1].
|
| The difference is I tend to do it all under one nym, while
| others hide their inanity[2].
|
| Anyways, in all seriousness: is Duck Duck Grey real? Or some
| virtual snipe hunt[3] you made up like the type they'd send
| Boy Scouts like me on in the 2000s just before the
| organization went bankrupt? :-)
|
| [-1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)#Challeng
| es_t...
|
| [0] Die Schule war im Sommer so lange aus, der CFAA-Timer
| abgelaufen, und ich spreche immer noch kein Franzosisch :-)
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrasal_verb
|
| [2] Note the lack of an S if you want to pick apart my
| phrasing here, in _this_ context.
| https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/inane#Italian
|
| [3] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/snipe_hunt#Noun
|
| Edit: Still re-learning the formatting, and trying to look at
| cheat sheets less, edited to make the citations not be all on
| one line.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| The title in my inbox mentioned that term, but I got it via the
| newsletter, so I don't know if everyone saw that... phrasing[1]
| :-)
|
| [1] The above is a very local reference to a very well known
| Archer meme:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyLWrKh2fB0
|
| (I had a coauthor who'd make sweeping proclamations like "we do
| not use the word 'seminal paper' in this laboratory around the
| time they had to stop calling it ISIS on the show... due to the
| rise of ISIS, which, according to Wikipedia is " a Salafi
| jihadist group and former unrecognised proto-state"[1], but I'm
| not an expert on... natsec stuff.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis_(disambiguation)
| jvanderbot wrote:
| What is going on in this comment? Have you had too much or
| too little coffee today, sir/madam?
| rustyminnow wrote:
| I'll bet they are interacting with hnews through some sort
| of 3rd party client, and meant to reply to some other
| thread and something got borked
| dontbenebby wrote:
| I used to use Reddit a lot, still adjusting to HN
| culture.
|
| Also, too much caffeine and no weed, so all I can do is
| amp up, then wait.
|
| (I looked into MMJ, but the dispensaries are pretty
| unprofessional, it's why I think it should be
| recreational, they still act like cartel members.)
| 8note wrote:
| Hmm. Maybe they'll show back up in Minecraft after all
| calebm wrote:
| I just moved to north Georgia recently, and I've never seen so
| many fireflies in my life - thousands of them. But we don't use
| pesticides, and I don't think my nearby neighbors do either. We
| also keep a good bit of grass pretty long most of the time.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| >But we don't use pesticides
|
| Makes sense. The woo woo people get obsessed with GMOs etc when
| the real issue is monoculture paired with excessive chemicals
| to keep the monoculture from being eaten up rather than several
| varieties of... whatever... that each may resist different
| types of bugs.
|
| (Though to be fair, I've never been to Georgia, just talked
| about it with folks who have.)
| bencollier49 wrote:
| But if the GMOs are made resistant to pesticides and
| weedkillers, that encourages the excessive use of chemicals
| to promote a monoculture.
| rcMgD2BwE72F wrote:
| >In 2015, 89% of corn, 94% of soybeans, and 89% of cotton
| produced in the United States were from strains that were
| genetically modified to be herbicide-tolerant - including but
| not limited to glyphosate.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate#Genetically_modifie.
| ..
| xeromal wrote:
| Hope you enjoy your stay/life in N. GA. It's where I was born
| and raised. Don't forget to go swimming in a lake this summer.
| lol
| ramesh31 wrote:
| >I just moved to north Georgia recently, and I've never seen so
| many fireflies in my life - thousands of them.
|
| They are peaking this week
| https://www.nps.gov/grsm/learn/nature/fireflies.htm
| exhilaration wrote:
| Can you explain this link a little further? It looks like
| there's so many fireflies at this national park that they
| have to _grant access via lottery_? That 's amazing, I'm on
| the east coast and would drive to something like this. Is it
| really as awesome as I'm imagining?
| fma wrote:
| They aren't regular ol fireflies, they are synchronous
| fireflies.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| And posts like these are why they need a lottery, some
| things should be esoteric knowledge and kept offline.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Well, GSNP is the most heavily visited National Park in
| the US, so that's mostly it. There's really nothing
| special about this place in particular though. The whole
| area is lit up right now.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| >Well, GSNP is the most heavily visited National Park in
| the US
|
| That's a fair point!
|
| But did people know that it's specifically known for the
| fireflies? :-)
|
| (I'd expect most people look at a list of the most
| visited and pick based on things like cost and
| drivability and adjacent issues, like costs of mosquito
| nets, but I can understand if it's literally just "yeah,
| in natural parks there's lots of nature, why does this
| suprise dontbenebby?")
| thieving_magpie wrote:
| Nice to see others in tech moving to N. Georgia. Welcome!
| beauzero wrote:
| Good to see you moved to Georgia. We did about 20 years ago.
| Biggest difference I have seen lately in the tech scene is
| there are a lot more jobs outside of Atlanta. The salary/cost
| of living cannot be beaten (lived in MT, AZ, ID, SD prior to
| GA).
| irrational wrote:
| I was nearly 40 years old before I saw fireflies for the first
| time. I was sent back east to Washington DC for a conference. One
| evening I was wandering near one of the monuments when these tiny
| points of light started lighting up. I couldn't figure out what
| they were until I got close enough and realized they were
| insects. That was also the trip where I first saw lightning, so
| it was a very enlightening trip ;-) My children still have never
| seen fireflies (or lightning), so I hope they stick around long
| enough till we can go east someday and see them.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| There's probably a market for guided Firefly tours, if they're
| entrepreneurial.
|
| (I'll have to look into when they're supposed to come back,
| they're native to my area.)
| [deleted]
| 411111111111111 wrote:
| There are places without lightning? How does that work, isn't
| it just caused by quick warm:cold transitions and don't these
| happen everywhere?
| [deleted]
| whimsicalism wrote:
| Bay Area doesn't really have lightning or thunderstorms.
| Makes me sad.
| irrational wrote:
| Maybe we don't hand the warm cold transition? I also heard it
| has something to do with our clouds are always low and warm
| instead of high and cold, which apparently has something to
| do with making lightning. I really don't know the reason our
| region doesn't have lightning.
| orangepurple wrote:
| One of the main predictors is convective available potential
| energy, or the integrated amount of work that the upward
| (positive) buoyancy force would perform on a given mass of
| air (called an air parcel) if it rose vertically through the
| entire atmosphere
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convective_available_potential.
| ..
|
| Lightning flash rate May 4, 1995 - December 31, 2013
|
| https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/85600/global-
| lightn...
|
| Global lightning strikes from January 1998 to April 2015 from
| the NASA/MSFC Lightning Imaging Sensor on the Tropical
| Rainfall Measuring Mission satellite.
|
| https://ghrc.nsstc.nasa.gov/lightning/images/browse/mission..
| ..
| jgwil2 wrote:
| Can anyone explain in simple terms why it seems that it
| occurs relatively frequently in the centers of continents
| and infrequently in the middle of the ocean?
| stonemetal12 wrote:
| Dry air is a good insulator so larger charge
| differentials can occur. Wet air isn't as good an
| insulator so charge doesn't build up. That is also why
| Lightning tends to happen during rain storms, the
| insulator breaks down and allows the charge to flow.
| 411111111111111 wrote:
| It looks pretty unlikely for a person anywhere to go 40
| years without witnessing lightning from looking at these
| visualizations, honestly.
|
| I'm living in an area which is pretty much in a dead zone
| on these graphs and have seen at least _some_ lightning
| each year. Admittedly, most years only have pretty small
| bolts but that 's a different story
| orangepurple wrote:
| It is absolutely possible if you live on an island in the
| Pacific Ocean such as Hawaii.
| heywoodlh wrote:
| Born and grew up on Oahu and moved to the mainland when I
| was a teen. Can definitely say that while I saw bright
| flashes of light from lightning during hurricane season I
| never actually saw the bolts of lightning until moving
| away from Hawaii.
| owenversteeg wrote:
| It just takes a few factors to bring someone's chances
| way down. For example:
|
| - Someone who is indoors for the most lightning-active
| hours can easily bring their chance of seeing lightning
| way down [0]
|
| - If you live in a dead zone, you can see 2+ orders of
| magnitude less lightning per year [0 and 1]
|
| - People vary a lot in how much time they spend outdoors.
| Some people spend a half an hour outdoors each day, some
| spend five; there's another order of magnitude.
|
| - If you live in a city or a valley, you often have a far
| more limited view as opposed to someone on a hill or flat
| land. If you live on the lower floors of an apartment
| building in a city, for example, you may only see the
| rest of your block, versus others that can see several
| square miles.
|
| Just those four factors together and you've got a
| plausible several order of magnitude difference in how
| much lightning people see. I think it's totally possible
| there's a good chunk of the population that's never seen
| it.
|
| [0] https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/questions/4967
| /are-li...
|
| [1]
| https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/85600/global-
| lightn... (also referenced in gp)
| bushbaba wrote:
| In the 8 years of me living in the Bay Area. I think I've
| seen lightning maybe twice in the area.
| makerofspoons wrote:
| It's never occurred to me that there are places that don't get
| lightning storms. I'm guessing that also means you've never had
| the joy of getting your garden or car paint ruined by hail?
| dontbenebby wrote:
| >don't get lightning storms
|
| Wait are you calling a swarm of them a "lightning storm"? I
| thought pretty much everyplace gets lightning[1]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_lightning
| jeffbee wrote:
| There is almost never lightning in coastal northern
| California.
| whimsicalism wrote:
| It makes me sad, having moved from DC where we had
| glorious thunderstorms.
| Tagbert wrote:
| Lightning happens all over but it is relatively rare on the
| US west coast, particularly in the Pacific Northwest. We
| had an actual thunderstorm in the fall of 2019 and everyone
| was talking about it for a couple of days after, it was so
| noteworthy.
| smcl wrote:
| I think dontbenebby is asking whether the person was
| using "lightning storm" in the commentt to refer to:
|
| - a swarm of fireflies (aka "lightning bugs")
|
| - a storm with thunder and lightning
| irrational wrote:
| I literally had no idea a swarm of fireflies is called a
| lightning storm. I also didn't know they are called
| lightning bugs. TIL
| smcl wrote:
| That's the thing, I don't think a swarm of fireflies is
| called that. But I think that's what the question was
| asking :)
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Both are not normal in the Pacific Northwest.
| evan_ wrote:
| The last time we saw lightning in the Willamette Valley
| of Oregon there were multiple posts on the local reddit
| asking what the flashing light in the sky was. People
| thought it might be a gas explosion or aircraft.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Wow, that's just mindblowing to me. Do they also point at
| the sun and ask if it a god in a chariot of fire? Clearly
| asked in jest, but that's just how strange hearing about
| people not having the fortune of seeing lightning on a
| regular basis. (I'm clearly a fan of lightning, and have
| a collection of photos I've captured as a hobby)
| rngname22 wrote:
| it's like rain. a rain storm. monday sunny skies. tuesday
| light rain. wednesday it rains all day - we call that a
| rain storm. thursday a rain storm with lightning? we call
| that a thunderstorm (or less commonly lightning storm):
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderstorm
| irrational wrote:
| Yeah, we never get thunderstorms.
| symfoniq wrote:
| Wow. It never occurred to me that this was possible in
| the US. I've seen lightning three days out of the last
| five.
|
| We have fireflies (or lightning bugs) in the back yard,
| too. I remember there being a lot more of them when I was
| a child, though.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| >Wow. It never occurred to me that this was possible in
| the US. I've seen lightning three days out of the last
| five.
|
| Likewise, you learn something new every day :-)
| mark-r wrote:
| https://xkcd.com/1053/
| eightysixfour wrote:
| It was a very weird experience moving to the West Coast.
| One day there was some thunder off in the distance and I
| realized I hadn't heard it in 6-7 months. Didn't even
| know I was missing it.
| irrational wrote:
| We get hail, but it has never been bigger than about 1/8
| inch. Our climate just doesn't have the right conditions to
| form lightning. Hail, sleet, snow, rain all still work
| properly.
| fanatic2pope wrote:
| I've definitely noticed a huge drop off of fireflies and I
| realized that this year I saw no june bugs flying around.
| cardamomo wrote:
| I haven't seen June bugs since I was a child growing up in
| Wisconsin, about 20 years ago. They were never my favorite
| critter, but I am still troubled by their disappearance.
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| Not just fireflys. All kinds of flying insects.
|
| I live in the Great Lakes region out in the country, and the need
| to clean my windshield and front license plate was a weekly
| requirement due to all the bug splatter from my daily commute
| into work. This need has plummeted in recent years.
|
| Another observation: Fish Flys
|
| They would be so thick, that I have seen snow shovels and once
| even a snow-plow used to clear them off the street! (I worked at
| a full-service gas station in my teen years, the snow shovel was
| necessary for that 1 week in May-June). You couldn't walk from a
| parking lot into a store without slipping from the sheer number
| that get crushed when you walk.
|
| The insect apocalypse is already here, and we are fucked.
| cainxinth wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windshield_phenomenon
| sva_ wrote:
| I sometimes wonder how long it would take insects to evolve
| an instinct to avoid places that smell of gasoline (if many
| of those who don't detect it get squashed on a windshield).
| Of course I'm not denying the decrease in insect populations,
| which has been observed independently in many ways.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| Thanks for the pointer, now my morning is shot as I dig
| through old diaries and photos rather than doing something
| productive.
|
| It's just a sample size of one, but by the time I got rid of
| my car, which I'd had through the twenty aughts, I no longer
| had to memorize which gas stations actually changed the
| windshield fluid.
|
| Maybe that's why some people have more bugs: they're coming
| out of the windshield fluid tanks at dodgy petrol shops whose
| cleaner buckets are all full of rainwater. :-)
|
| For context, I drove from Bloomington, Indiana to the Bay
| Area twice. First time a more northern route via Colorado,
| the second time a southern route through the ABQ area with a
| stopover at the Flamingo in Vegas, since at the time they had
| a valet and REALLY reasonable rooms, but I wouldn't repeat
| that even if they kept those amenities -- driving within Las
| Vegas was the scariest experience of my life. Just trying to
| turn right out of a gas station near the strip after having
| taken my tank up to full was nerve wracking.
|
| I felt safer on the 101 where I could let people overtake me
| and put the cruise control at 10 above the speed limit and
| listen to the audiobooks I had burned onto five MP3 CDs in a
| 5 disc changer.
|
| But very rarely did I encounter that stereotypical "SPLAT" of
| a bug, let alone so many I had to clean the windshield... the
| issue was more dust and grime.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| My Tesla is plastered with bugs any time I leave Chicago. I
| don't doubt the insect populations are falling, but I don't
| relate to all of these clean car claims. It must vary a lot
| within the Great Lakes region.
| Comevius wrote:
| I think insect variety in that case is restricted to a few
| species that keep thriving due to the sudden lack of
| predators. Like that brown marmorated stink bug that's
| killing the crops.
| fullstop wrote:
| That stink bug, along with the spotted lantern fly, were
| invasive species from Asia which were first discovered in
| the USA --- in Allentown Pennsylvania! That's right, the
| same place referenced in the article.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| Yeah, after hand scrubbing the "grill" of my car several
| times this year (the concave plastic bit that replaces a
| grill on lower-end Teslas), it definitely seems like a lot
| of flies, but I'm no entomologist.
| [deleted]
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > The insect apocalypse is already here, and we are fucked.
|
| Wasn't there a post a year or so back on HN that basically said
| it's a measurement problem, not an actual insect apocalypse?
| I'll have to try to find that. Seems like I can never know what
| to believe any more.
|
| I'd also want to know ... what does it matter? Are we seeing
| measurable knock-on effects from fewer insects? We should be,
| if they're critical to our ecosystems. If we're not, then... do
| we care? Seems like a legitimate question. Not that we want
| them to go extinct necessarily, but it could be worth tempering
| the panic.
| hedora wrote:
| Off the top of my head, we've been seeing crop failures due
| to lack of pollnators, and also bird population collapses in
| recent years.
|
| Most wildlife indirectly eats insects as part of the food
| chain, and without insects most native plants will go
| extinct, so herbivores are mostly screwed too.
|
| Without local plants you get other screwed up ecosystem
| issues. For instance, California's hills used to be green,
| not dead and yellow in the summer. That helps accelerate
| desertification.
|
| If things continue down this road, we're completely fucked.
| Sometimes, I think nuking the politicians is the greenest
| path forward.
|
| But, hey, it's election day here in California. Better go
| vote.
| spaniard89277 wrote:
| There are farmers renting bees that are flown by airplane
| to places.
| jessaustin wrote:
| _Better go vote._
|
| In the 1960s a number of people, at least one of whom had
| been elected to high office, who were improving this nation
| were assassinated, because several parties didn't like
| those improvements. Although some progress has been made
| since then, on many measures we've gone downhill. This
| process seems impervious to the popular vote. Perhaps it's
| time for another round of assassinations?
| toss1 wrote:
| If you wait until the damaging effects of the collapse are
| already substantially affecting us, it is waaay too late by
| then.
|
| For most of the time of the event, you won't see any ill
| effects of a piano falling out of a building above your head,
| but if you wait to act until it starts crushing your hat, you
| are waaayy too late.
|
| There are literal armies of scientists observing and working
| on this problem, and mountains of data, but you seem to think
| that your willful ignorance by reductive 'reasoning' is more
| relevant. There's far too much information to even begin to
| list here, but I'll suggest you start with the Xerces society
| [1] if you want to become informed.
|
| [1] https://xerces.org/
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > but you seem to think that your willful ignorance by
| reductive 'reasoning' is more relevant
|
| Thanks for the personal attack. Instead of just bringing
| something more useful than windshield studies into the
| discussion. My complaint was that we keep hearing about
| windshields, when real data ought to exist. I'll take a
| look at your link, even if I'm inclined to suspect the bias
| of the source.
| toss1 wrote:
| Not meaning to be personal, but reductionist approaches
| are too often a way for brains to make bad assessments
| and decisions. Although reductionism has the benefit of
| being "efficient" and reducing cognitive load required to
| find a conclusion, it is often like the hapless drunk
| looking for his key under the streetlight instead of
| where he most likely lost it. Also unimpressive are
| arguments based on casual encounter with the issues that
| armies of scientists must have missed some One_Thing, and
| these arguments are often used in anti-science advocacy,
| so maybe I've got too little patience for that sort of
| thing.
|
| Here's some more data: first a famous German study
| showing 82% loss in nature preserves over just three
| decades [0], and then a meta-study of 166 studies
| (including the first one) [1].
|
| Good luck and I'd suggest also looking into system
| dynamics, where even getting a clue of the complexity can
| lead you to avoid many pitfalls.
|
| [0] https://www.science.org/content/article/germany-s-
| insects-ar...
|
| [1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/new-study-
| gives-mo...
| Tagbert wrote:
| There was an article a few months ago using measurements of
| impacts to license plates and it found a real drop of 60% in
| insect populations. The license plate is place to measure as
| it is not really affected by the airflow changes that some
| people suggest are the reason we see fewer impact.
|
| Here is a news story: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/environment/a
| rticle/2022/05/10/in-...
|
| With so many insects missing, that is likely to have impacts
| on other animals and plants that would eventually impact
| humans. These creatures are food for other animals and
| pollinators for crop plants.
|
| Beyond that, insect loss is an indicator that something is
| happening to our environment and the effects are probably not
| going to be positive. Treat this as a warning.
|
| Edit: added statement about license plat vs airflow
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I actually wouldn't be surprised at all if we've improved
| airflow relative to license plates, as well. The whole push
| to increase fuel economy means figuring out how to get air
| not to hit anything head-on, which includes bumpers and
| license plates.
|
| But in any case, I really would like better metrics than
| license plates and windshields. It amounts to anecdotes
| masquerading as data, and I _have_ to assume that there are
| scientists who 've made more accurate measures over the
| years that are more objective.
| Tagbert wrote:
| I'm not sure that anyone thought it important enough to
| gather the data before.
| bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
| Is it possible that it is a redistribution of the insect
| population to have more walkers than flyers or maybe even
| flying insects have learned how to avoid vehicles?
|
| How have bird strikes by cars changed over the last
| century? What if part of the issue is that we aren't
| accounting for certain species starting to fly 8 feet
| higher?m because of the obvious evolutionary pressure?
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| Yes historically we're very good at evaluating which
| ecological changes will have impactful second-order effects.
| No reason at all to break our pattern of confidently
| declaring that it seems fine.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| If we can't identify any second order effects, it calls
| into question the validity of the original claim, though.
| I'm not too impressed by talk of windshield bug splatter
| count, because it smells a lot like folk 'science' and not
| real data. A lack of second order effects reinforces that
| suspicion.
|
| I'm quite sure there's some real science going on, but it
| isn't as headline worthy.
| Comevius wrote:
| The scientific evidence for insect population collapse is
| strong, but the consequences to the rest of the ecosystem
| can remain subtle for a long time, until they are not.
|
| A death by a thousands cut is the closest analogy.
| Complex systems don't collapse in a linear fashion. Their
| seemingly sudden collapse is only suprising beause of our
| inability to notice and connect the subtle changes.
| fullstop wrote:
| I do not doubt this at all, but I also have to imagine that
| vehicles are more aerodynamic than they were a decade ago.
|
| I also remember keeping a squeegee in the car to remove "bug
| paste" from the windshield after the wipers couldn't handle any
| more bug guts.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| >I also remember keeping a squeegee in the car to remove "bug
| paste" from the windshield after the wipers couldn't handle
| any more bug guts.
|
| Keep the keycard from a motel around, not only can you use
| them to open many poorly designed doors without breaking your
| actual credit card[0], they're great for scraping crap like
| that off windshields.
|
| Just heat up water in the microwave (being sure to poke the
| thing with a wooden chopstick or something in case it
| explodes, though 30-60s should just make it extremely
| warm[1]) then dump it right on there, then scrape that crap
| off and use napkins from McDonald's or whatever to get the
| mess off.
|
| [0] I won't detail how - I taught someone how to do this to
| avoid lockout fees freshmen year, he allegedly broke into
| some woman's room to "prank" her who he was NOT friends with,
| then _I_ had to sit through a dressing down by res life as
| the RAs continued to do pretty much the same thing,
| repeatedly, but to look for liquor rather than invent a cute
| reason to only "prank" the hotties from the soccer team.
| (Even _autistic_ hackers notice when your invasions of
| privacy only involve people you want to... "date".)
|
| [1] https://www.fda.gov/radiation-emitting-products/home-
| busines...
| boringg wrote:
| > I do not doubt this at all, but I also have to imagine that
| vehicles are more aerodynamic than they were a decade ago.
|
| They also mentioned their license plate. It's something I
| have observed as well - the great bug decline or die off. It
| speaks to food web being insecure.
| fullstop wrote:
| Also, according to the Wiki article that cainxinth
| mentioned, more aerodynamic vehicles are apparently worse
| for flying insects. It seems somewhat counter-intuitive,
| but perhaps the more boxy vehicles push the insects away
| before they can be crushed.
| boringg wrote:
| I can see that from a physics perspective -- there is a
| larger pocket of air in front of a boxy vehicle.
| Tagbert wrote:
| The UK study looked at impacts to license plates which are
| not aerodynamic and found a 60% reduction in impacts.
| BoiledCabbage wrote:
| > I do not doubt this at all, but I also have to imagine that
| vehicles are more aerodynamic than they were a decade ago.
|
| Which the article calls out as meaning more bugs should be
| hitting the windshield, not fewer.
|
| That said, I'm not sure I follow why that would cause more. I
| could see a stronger argument for it causing fewer.
| throwawaymaths wrote:
| I can't attest to their results but the producers of the
| super-aerodynamic aptera claim that almost no bugs wind up
| on the aptera as compared to their chase car, because the
| bugs wind up unharmed through the slipstream.
|
| Though I believe that there is likely an broad insect
| decline, for the bug splat anecdotes (remembering that the
| plural of anecdote is data) we also can't rule out that
| bugs are evolving based on selective pressure to avoid
| thoroughfares.
| shireboy wrote:
| My family discovered recently that we have synchronous fireflies
| in our "back 40" (not really 40 acres, but a nice chunk of
| undeveloped land). They only go for a few weeks, but when they
| do, it's like someone threw Christmas tree lights all over the
| forest floor. Thousands of lights blinking at the exact same
| millisecond. Utterly amazing that such tiny organisms can
| synchronize over such a large area. We're doing our part to try
| to keep it habitable for them.
| superb-owl wrote:
| See also: https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/22958614/insects-
| bees-butt...
| timst4 wrote:
| Climate also plays a part. I was just on Spruce Knob last weekend
| and saw lightning bugs in late May. Never in my life have I seen
| them before mid-June and this was at 5000 ft elevation. This
| disruption to their annual cycle can't be helping numbers
| zhynn wrote:
| Still fireflies out here in Vermont. Please visit and/or move
| here full time with your family! We need more full time families
| out here.
|
| The fireflies really are spectacular.
| beefman wrote:
| I'm grew up in the Lehigh Valley. I noticed this when I visited
| in 2016 for the first time in many years:
| https://twitter.com/clumma/status/1020403913592193024
| fullstop wrote:
| I live there now and I have, in recent years, had a significant
| number of fireflies in my yard.
|
| I also end up with a decent amount of leaf litter in my yard
| over the winter because of a large pin-oak which drops its
| leaves much later than the rest of the trees.
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| I get a lot of fireflies in my backyard. I have a Trumpet vine
| that they like to get it on on. I tried to film some firefly sex
| with mixed results. Can someone recommend a lens for m4/3 thats
| good in low light and good for macro.
| rpmisms wrote:
| A fast EF macro lens with a speedbooster would probably work
| well.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I use an Olympus 50mm f/2 on a m43 adapter and it works great.
| Unusually fast for a macro.
| cm2012 wrote:
| Yeah fireflies are very hard to take pictures of, the light
| always looks much duller.
| 30944836 wrote:
| I don't know how anyone over the age of 30 could write this
| headline with the word "could." I know there's data behind it,
| and that we have to be careful not to assume things without the
| data but...
|
| Have they been outside in the summer, in the midwest? In the
| mid-1990s you could nearly read a book by the light of lightning
| bugs. Now's nearly dark.
| Someone wrote:
| I'm not claiming your conclusion is incorrect, but predator-
| prey systems (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotka-
| Volterra_equations) can have long stretches of population
| decrease. A measured decrease, even a huge one lasting decades,
| need not be a a long term decline.
| 30944836 wrote:
| Thank you for this. It is a reminder for me to think more
| long term than just my short life so far.
| lukas099 wrote:
| The point was that the population is declining, not that it
| is long term.
| Someone wrote:
| The title of this article may make it seem so, but IMHO, it
| is incorrect, and the main message of the article is
|
| _One in three firefly species in North America may be at
| risk of extinction, according to a study by the Xerces
| Society for Invertebrate Conservation._
|
| The title of that paper (https://xerces.org/press/firefly-
| species-at-risk) is _"One in Three North American Firefly
| Species Assessed May Be at Risk of Extinction"_ , so I
| think that's not a misinterpretation from my side.
| strangattractor wrote:
| Grew up in Southeast Virginia in the 60's. Fireflies galore.
| June bugs also. Not anymore - haven't seen them in 40 years.
| Seems to me it coincided with aerial spraying for mosquitos
| in the area. There are still plenty of mosquitos however:)
| gibolt wrote:
| The main predator is likely cars in this case. Those numbers
| won't be decreasing, and bug numbers likely won't be bouncing
| back
| throwaway1777 wrote:
| I was under the impression the main predator was
| insecticides.
| Someone wrote:
| This isn't a simple two-species system. If insect
| population collapse were to cause a human population
| collapse, I think the number of cars (and wind turbines,
| and insecticides) would follow, possibly early enough to
| prevent full extinction of insects.
| mathattack wrote:
| Experienced the same as a kid and can't remember the last one
| I've seen.
| immmmmm wrote:
| by some authors, this decline is 3 orders of magnitude faster
| than what is inferred from fossil records of the last
| extinction event. global warming might increase that by an
| additional 2 orders of magnitude.
|
| the good news is that it can still be partially reversed, if
| humanity acts quickly.
| spiderice wrote:
| If the partial reversal is contingent on humans acting
| quickly, I'm not sure that is good news.
| immmmmm wrote:
| let's say that this topic making it to the front page of HN
| is good start.
| choeger wrote:
| Humans act extremely quickly - in geological terms. That's
| part of the problem, of course. Unfortunately, it stands to
| reason that OP meant quickly in human terms.
| alar44 wrote:
| > the good news is that it can still be partially reversed,
| if humanity acts quickly.
|
| So we're fucked then.
| [deleted]
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Funny, the last two summers here at my rural place in southern
| Ontario (basically the midwest) there's been so many fireflies.
| We used to have them here and there, but never like this.
|
| Anecdota, but.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Seeing a lot of them this spring here in the midwest US as
| well.
| myth_drannon wrote:
| Montreal island subburbs, so many of them every summer.
| bmitc wrote:
| I haven't seen a firefly since I was a kid. We used to catch
| and release them using glass jars.
| 0des wrote:
| so it's your fault.
| bmitc wrote:
| Haha. Catch and _release_! (And that was one or two amongst
| tens or hundreds.) Although _probably_ relatively harmless,
| I wouldn 't do it now.
| metadaemon wrote:
| I've been saying this for a while. I remember so many as a
| child, so it's only anecdotal, but there has been a very
| noticeable decline.
| annecdatta wrote:
| gnulinux wrote:
| Anecdote but 2020 summer (covid summer) there were tons of
| fireflies in Boston. A lot more so than normal. I don't know
| how it was 10+ years ago though...
| Mildlypolite wrote:
| Could? Is that a joke?
|
| (a very cruel and bad taste joke)
| nikolay wrote:
| It surely is! Back in Bulgaria as kids, there were tons of
| fireflies at night; now, I can't recall seeing a single one in so
| many years!
| DragonsBeHere wrote:
| They're still very prevalent in the southeast
| kobieyc wrote:
| Where exactly? I want to show my daughter some and there aren't
| any in my state.
| zabil wrote:
| During my recent visit to Virpazar (Montenegro) we saw fireflies
| in the fields. It was such lovely sight. The locals say it's a
| sign of very clean water sources.
| swayvil wrote:
| My friends and I have been noticing this for the past couple
| decades.
|
| Used to be, every creekbed was a river of moving lights.
|
| Now we're like, "ooh! I saw a firefly!"
| corrral wrote:
| That and butterflies have gone from ho-hum because you're
| guaranteed to see hundreds every year even if you don't try, to
| "holy shit, I see one, everybody come look!"
| fullstop wrote:
| My daughter wanted to plant her own garden outside, so I made
| a 2x2' box for her to plant a few things in. I specifically
| made it small so that she could easily weed it and whatnot.
| She planted fennel in there, and boy did it take off. It
| escaped the box and now I find little sprouts of it
| everywhere and it smells like Italian sausage whenever I cut
| the grass.
|
| Anyway, it turns out that swallowtail caterpillars _love_
| fennel. Each fall I collect fennel branches with caterpillars
| on them and keep them in a mesh canvas container in the
| garage. They form their chrysalis and seemingly go into
| suspended animation from about October until late May / June
| of the next year when they emerge as butterflies.
|
| I collected 11 of them last fall, and there were still more
| when I had run out of room in the container. That's from a a
| small 2x2' square, so imagine what an entire field of fennel
| could do!
| ezconnect wrote:
| When I was a kid, firefly was very common in our area. We use to
| catch them and put on jars for night camping and let them go. Now
| you won't find a single one of them.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| In my experience, it's been declining for decades. I moved to
| Oklahoma in the 90s, expecting to see fireflies. I saw ... one?
| Two? And that was it. I didn't see any significant number of
| fireflies until a later visit to West Virginia. But the way my
| grandparents used to talk about it, Oklahoma was teeming with
| fireflies during their youth.
| _moof wrote:
| Fireflies need humidity (which is why you don't see any in the
| American West) and Oklahoma sits right on the semi-permanent
| atmospheric boundary that divides the humid east from the dry
| west. This central dry line has shifted eastward due to climate
| change, taking the fireflies with it.
|
| https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/eint/22/5/ei-d-17...
| syngrog66 wrote:
| insect pops are declining period. I dont even need "data" to tell
| me that. I've seen it with my own eyes over decades, across
| everyday life experiences. I feel we're headed towards a world
| without bugs. And that spells apocalypse for entire ecosystems
| and some agriculture
| planetsprite wrote:
| I'm just assuming now that the population of every animal except
| mosquitos is declining
| geysersam wrote:
| Found the headline quite odd. "Could be declining" If there's
| any ambiguity at all, they're doing better than most species,
| particularly amongst flying insects.
| _moof wrote:
| And ticks. They don't die off the way they used to because it's
| not as cold in the winter. Causing real problems for deer and
| moose.
| myshpa wrote:
| It's also biodiversity problem.
|
| Without predators (snakes, foxes, coyotes, owls, ...)
| managing rodent populations, numbers of infected ticks rise
| significantly.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5543215/
|
| https://eu.thetimesherald.com/story/sports/2017/08/17/eckert.
| ..
|
| "Nervous mice tend to stay home. Mice that stay home don't
| run into ticks, don't provide food for the next generation of
| ticks and don't become infected with Lyme disease. Areas with
| the most predator activity had almost the same number of mice
| as areas without predators, but had one-fifth as many ticks
| and one-eighth as many infected ticks."
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| We moved to the country 25 years ago. First summer, driving home
| after dark, my wife said "What's all those lights?" About 1B
| fireflies were flashing over a hayfield.
|
| "Fireflies!"
|
| "No, really! Fireflies are made up!"
|
| See, she grew up in the desert and thought stories about
| fireflies were in with fairies and elves.
|
| Anyway, haven't seen that again since. Now I know why.
| fullstop wrote:
| > See, she grew up in the desert and thought stories about
| fireflies were in with fairies and elves.
|
| It's always cool when people visit us in the summer who have
| lived on the west coast their entire lives. Their first
| impressions of fireflies, as adults, is fun to watch.
|
| We hosted an exchange student from China, who had spent his
| entire life in a major city, and he expected fireflies to be
| hot to the touch. I still get a lot of them in my yard, but I
| also don't treat my lawn with anything other than what falls
| from the sky.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| > but I also don't treat my lawn with anything other than
| what falls from the sky
|
| Do people spread poison on their lawn? Why?
| eastbound wrote:
| For ants. Extremely polluting for water. If you take the
| non-lawn product right next to it, the label says (European
| here): "Don't spread on lawns, in places accessible to
| animals or children, in places where it will be drained to
| common water, only spread on the concrete in front of the
| house where the rain doesn't reach, in quantities (5g per
| meter)". And they give you a 2kg bottle. So I guess the
| lawn product is quite bad too, albeit slightly better.
| fullstop wrote:
| In the USA, people absolutely put both herbicide and
| insecticide on their lawns. Here's one product that I've
| seen in stores: https://www.scotts.com/sites/g/files/oydgjc
| 106/files/asset_f...
|
| The active ingredient here is bifenthrin, which has been
| (mostly) banned in the EU since 2019. This product is
| marketed for killing those "unsavory" bugs and promoting
| plant growth, but it is also extremely lethal to bees.
|
| I'm sure that my neighbors dislike the clover in my yard,
| but I've got bees buzzing about over here and they have a
| pristine-but-sterile landscape.
| zhynn wrote:
| In the northeast many people are terrified of ticks, and
| they go scorched earth genocide trying to keep them away
| with neurotoxins.
|
| It doesn't stop the ticks, they are extremely resilient
| and don't use lawns as their primary habitat. It does
| massive damage to the local insect population though.
|
| Also, DEET is a lot less nasty than most people think,
| and very effective without destroying the ecosystem.
| MadcapJake wrote:
| They actually have these confluence events where they mate and
| likely this is what you saw (if the counts were that high).
| I've seen their numbers wax and wane in my yard and beyond.
| That said, I don't denounce the research; just feel that these
| bugs don't always have the same population size year over year
| that someone could casually notice their decline.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Good to hear.
|
| How often are these events? The last time we saw that many
| fireflies was 20 years ago.
| cm2012 wrote:
| > Another way to help, he said, is to planting trees and native
| grasses, and to allow log and leaf litter to accumulate.
|
| > "They prefer longer grass and they like to be in the leaf
| litter from the leaves that have fallen from last year," Edwards
| said, "That will make a much better firefly habitat."
|
| Unfortunately in Long Island this would also make the ideal tick
| habitat. It's not worth the trade-off for residential property!
| efields wrote:
| You can have both long grasses that establish and preserve
| natural habitats and also have places for humans and their
| companions to walk and play.
|
| If you have a half acre backyard and only play in the 2/3
| closest to your house, mow that grass and keep it neat, but let
| the other 1/3 go wild and/or install habitat-building
| plantings.
|
| Small steps.
| kobieyc wrote:
| I don't understand why light pollution gets so little attention
| in the US.
| twiddling wrote:
| Yes this.
|
| https://www.darksky.org/
| [deleted]
| _moof wrote:
| Same reason noise pollution doesn't either, I reckon.
| pessimizer wrote:
| I don't think that's relevant to this article, unless you
| consider fireflies light pollution.
|
| My firefly stories are from the late-70s and early-80s, on the
| south side of Chicago, as urban as you can possibly be, and
| every summer night all the kids would be outside catching
| fireflies and letting them go. I live on the same sort of a
| street now, still in Chicago, and I can't remember the last
| time I saw a firefly.
|
| edit: my surroundings haven't gotten brighter. When I was a
| kid, there was literally a Sears a block away. Lousy with
| fireflies.
| jeffbee wrote:
| That there were fireflies all over the brightly lit urban
| area, confused and unable to mate, is not inconsistent with
| the notion that man-made lights are hurting fireflies.
| cmpb wrote:
| The article mentions planting natives and leaving leaf litter for
| the insects to nest in. Anecdotally, that works extremely well.
| My neighbor always leaves his leaves under the trees (gums), and
| I'd noticed his yard always has a prolific firefly population.
| Two years ago, after I started to get interested in native
| plants, I started doing the same thing, and this year for the
| first time ever I have lightning bugs as well!
|
| I've also seen a plethora of other native bugs that I've never
| seen before, but that could just be due to the fact that I wasn't
| really very interested in them before.
| beauzero wrote:
| The farm we purchased 6+ years ago is just starting to see
| fireflies and bats come back. We look at dusk visible bats to
| gauge our bug population. We stopped spraying and are allowing
| fields to go back to a mixture of natives and grasses. Also
| started mowing strips instead of bush hogging the whole field
| during the summer to give shelter to animals and insects. The
| biggest impact we have seen is that we have more of a "bug
| balance". The first two years we were here the garden plants
| were destroyed by pests. Now we have about a 20% reduction in
| garden production. We do not spray or fertilize. We have also
| discontinued the previous owner's habit of putting chicken
| litter (from commercial poultry facilities) on our hay and
| grazing fields. We have not been able to measure that effect
| yet.
| [deleted]
| toss1 wrote:
| Excellent to hear how you are bringing back the native
| grasses and insects! In what part of the world are you?
|
| Have you tried no-till agriculture? We're finding great
| satisfaction and success with it, and a lot of excellent
| information from Charles Dowding [1] -- with lots of really
| detailed text and videos of how he manages his organic farm,
| showing those key details that are so often assumed or
| glossed over.
|
| Of course mentioned in the article, the Xerces Society has
| many excellent resources to help the pollinators and other
| key insects [2] -- good info for everyone.
|
| Always good to see people having a clue about sustaining
| nature and doing something about it -- so many are just
| oblivious and it will literally kill us all.
|
| [1] https://charlesdowding.co.uk/
|
| [2] https://xerces.org/
| trgn wrote:
| Yup, small conservations efforts can make a real difference.
|
| Leaving sections of our yard a little more wild, and bird and
| insect population went up, this includes lightning bugs, which
| we continue to get in abundance (we're in a reasonably urban
| area).
|
| I've planted milkweed, it took a few years, but now we get
| monarchs every year too.
|
| Jonathan Franzen wrote a great article on this that went viral
| (considering the topic) a few years ago
| https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/04/06/carbon-capture .
| He basically argues that the cataclysmic worries about climate
| change should not paralyze us to make changes that promote
| local conservation, which have real tangible benefits for
| biodiversity on a small scale.
| ElevenLathe wrote:
| In my corner of Michigan we seem to have them now while we didn't
| when I was a kid. Folk wisdom is that this is due to the mosquito
| control trucks no longer using DEET, but I have no idea if that's
| true. This is in a city obviously.
| jdpedrie wrote:
| Also in Michigan, and my perception is the same. I don't
| remember seeing them at all in my area (fairly rural exurbs)
| growing up. Camping in Ohio and seeing them is a vivid memory
| of my childhood. Now, as an adult in more or less the same area
| (though much closer to the city), I see them all the time in my
| yard.
| artursapek wrote:
| RoundUp and products like it should be illegal, every time I see
| someone using them I want to hit them
| whalesalad wrote:
| Anecdotally I have seen a huge decrease in firefly's here in SE
| Michigan over the last few years. Five or so years ago you'd see
| hundreds of them while driving through the farm fields or sitting
| in your backyard enjoying a summer brewski. Last few years I
| hardly recall seeing any of them anywhere.
| dontbenebby wrote:
| Were they less in urban areas?
|
| I didn't see them as much when I lived in a city, but I don't
| know how much of that was light pollution, it's very difficult
| where I am to get out someplace where you could see the Milky
| Way without a car, and when I would I'd see a lot but "swarm"
| isn't the word I'd use. More like pixels blinking in a weird
| pattern.
| hedora wrote:
| They used to be extremely common in suburbs.
| jcims wrote:
| Same story in Ohio. Used to be able to drive along pastures and
| see thousands of fireflies.
|
| My daughter saw some last night for the first time in quite a
| while. There were less than a dozen in a quarter acre area.
| She's 19 and has noticed the difference.
|
| (Same with Monarch butterflies albeit on a longer timescale)
| tomrod wrote:
| I wonder if the many polar vortexes in 2014, (2015/2017?)
| have reduced insect populations substantially. I remember
| that foxes were frozen in fields in Columbus during 2014.
| jcims wrote:
| That's a great question! No idea but it gives me a glimmer
| of hope it's not purely human driven.
| omegaworks wrote:
| The polar vortex is a symptom of the weakening of the
| jetstream, thought to be occurring because of warming-
| driven melting of the arctic ice cap. Human-driven
| melting.
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