[HN Gopher] Create macOS or Linux virtual machines
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       Create macOS or Linux virtual machines
        
       Author : hugolundin
       Score  : 124 points
       Date   : 2022-06-06 19:36 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (developer.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (developer.apple.com)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Ongoing related thread:
       | 
       |  _Running Intel Binaries in Linux VMs with Rosetta_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31644990 - June 2022 (25
       | comments)
        
       | jldugger wrote:
       | I was expecting something more than full machine emulation I
       | guess. But there's no way apple would publish instruction on
       | replacing macOS with Linux.
        
         | homarp wrote:
         | there is https://asahilinux.org/ for that...
        
         | dsl wrote:
         | > But there's no way apple would publish instruction on
         | replacing macOS with Linux
         | 
         | They support "replacing" macOS with Windows 10. I haven't
         | personally tested it, but I hear Windows 10 ARM even runs on
         | the M1.
        
           | terramex wrote:
           | Windows 10/11 ARM currently only work in virtual machines,
           | Apple does not provide ARM drivers for Windows like they did
           | for Intel editions.
        
             | Twisell wrote:
             | To be fair there is no publicly commercialized version of
             | Windows ARM. They only licence OEM.
             | 
             | So even if Apple wanted to provide ARM driver they probably
             | couldn't for legal reasons. So why should they bother and
             | who can blame them?
        
           | ramesh31 wrote:
           | >Windows 10 ARM
           | 
           | RIP, we hardly knew ye.
        
       | usrn wrote:
       | This is extremely basic stuff that I would expect any half decent
       | computer to be able to do. I'd be more surprised if it were
       | impossible but I guess this is Apple we're talking about.
        
         | tempay wrote:
         | Getting access to Rosetta for VMs could be a big win as I don't
         | think it was available previously so you were stuck with much
         | slower QEMU based x86_64 emulation.
        
       | karmelapple wrote:
       | I'm still keeping my Intel Mac around to run Vagrant nicely with
       | VirtualBox.
       | 
       | Will this let me spin up VMs with VirtualBox again on my M1? If
       | so, oh my gosh sign me up right now.
        
       | seemaze wrote:
       | I'd love a supported and streamlined option to provision native
       | macOS VM's. Currently other solutions leave much to be desired.
        
         | mort96 wrote:
         | UTM doesn't leave that much to be desired does it? I mean
         | something first-party would be nice, but it's not like we're in
         | a terrible state as it is...
        
       | tomComb wrote:
       | I was very excited, very briefly, by the title of this post.
       | 
       | Now very disappointed.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Changed now. (Submitted title was "Run full Linux distributions
         | on Apple Silicon")
        
         | olalonde wrote:
         | Opposite reaction here.
        
           | drusepth wrote:
           | This looks like it's just running Linux VMs as a guest in
           | macOS, right? Was that not already possible on macOS, or just
           | not possible on the M1/M2 chips?
        
             | saagarjha wrote:
             | You can attach a GUI to the VM now.
        
             | olalonde wrote:
             | It was not possible on M1/M2 chips (aside from a commercial
             | solution, Parallels, which is EUR99.99/yr).
        
               | saagarjha wrote:
               | Nope, it was possible and the API is open for anyone to
               | use. UTM (open source, $10 for a built product) supports
               | it.
        
               | chrisseaton wrote:
               | What was Docker doing?
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | SmellTheGlove wrote:
         | Same, but I re-read the text:
         | 
         | Learn how you can use the Virtualization framework to quickly
         | create virtual machines on your Mac. We'll show you how to
         | create a virtual Mac and quickly test changes to your app in an
         | isolated environment. _We 'll also explore how you can install
         | and run full Linux distributions on Apple silicon,_ and share
         | how you can take advantage of Rosetta 2 to run x86-64 Linux
         | binaries.
         | 
         | (emphasis mine) the way that bit reads suggests installing on
         | bare metal too.
        
           | blumomo wrote:
           | > We'll also explore how you can install and run full Linux
           | distributions on Apple silicon
           | 
           | ... in a VM on macOS as the host system.
        
         | paraboul wrote:
         | Well, Asahi Linux is a thing
        
           | buran77 wrote:
           | The title and the Apple domain made it look for a second like
           | an officially supported solution to run Linux directly on
           | Apple silicon. This would have been so much more than Asahi
           | Linux.
           | 
           | The title should have been "Create macOS or Linux virtual
           | machines" but I guess OP chose something that sounds more
           | attractive and "votable".
        
             | CodeBeater wrote:
             | Well, not to bash the OP, but a "votable" title does
             | distracts us from a conversation about the actual changes
             | to Mac OS.
        
               | hugolundin wrote:
               | I might have misinterpreted the session description, but
               | "We'll also explore how you can install and run full
               | Linux distributions on Apple Silicon" is the sentence
               | that made me post this in the first place.
               | 
               | Edit: Also, while I agree that the title sounds click
               | baity, it is a quote from the description, that I wanted
               | to highlight. Using the session title wouldn't have done
               | that. Guess we'll see, when the session drops tomorrow.
        
       | 1024core wrote:
       | What about Windows? Can I run Windows x86 in a VM on M2?
        
         | lynguist wrote:
         | I tried Windows 10 and Windows 11 on a Mac M1 with UTM and
         | Windows 11 with Parallels.
         | 
         | I found that Windows 11 ran much better than Windows 10 (it
         | gets stuck) on UTM and I found that Parallels ran much better
         | than UTM.
         | 
         | So, I'd say yes.
        
         | ramesh31 wrote:
         | Parallels currently supports it, but for whatever reason it's
         | Windows 11 only.
        
           | lwkl wrote:
           | It's because Windows 10 for ARM doesn't boot on Apple
           | Silicon.
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | "We'll also explore how you can install and run full Linux
       | distributions on Apple silicon, and share how you can take
       | advantage of Rosetta 2 to run x86-64 Linux binaries." That sounds
       | like running Linux on bare metal...
        
         | adrianmonk wrote:
         | It's annoyingly ambiguous. The "on Apple silicon" and "full
         | Linux" strongly suggest it's bare metal. (Why say it that way
         | if it's not?)
         | 
         | But the title is "Create macOS or Linux virtual machines",
         | which strongly suggests it's not bare metal.
         | 
         | But sometimes people write titles that only hit the biggest
         | highlights, and the title may not mention everything that's in
         | the video, so it's not impossible that it's Mac VMs, Linux VMs,
         | _and_ Linux bare metal.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | Or it is just going to be a video demonstrating this:
         | 
         | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run...
        
       | jasoneckert wrote:
       | Wait... can't we already do this using UTM?!?
        
       | saagarjha wrote:
       | For those wondering what's new, you can now attach a GUI now even
       | if you use the Virtualization framework. Previously you'd have to
       | use the lower-level Hypervisor framework and provide your own
       | framebuffer device.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Before we get too excited by the title of the article which looks
       | too good to offer what you may think it offers, in reality it is
       | still virtualization with in macOS allowing Linux to be run as a
       | guest and not a full installation.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Dang, title should be "Create macOS or Linux virtual machines"
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Changed now. (Submitted title was "Run full Linux distributions
         | on Apple Silicon")
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jonahbenton wrote:
         | Literally "dangit!" and also dang
        
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       (page generated 2022-06-06 23:02 UTC)