[HN Gopher] Ask HN: SWE who started an organic farm in Europe, w...
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Ask HN: SWE who started an organic farm in Europe, where did you
go?
Interested in stories of (ex-) software engineers who started a
different life and run now a farm (maybe just on the side). Which
place did you seek out and why?
Author : recvonline
Score : 203 points
Date : 2022-06-04 11:49 UTC (11 hours ago)
| [deleted]
| sdevonoes wrote:
| Should one buy a farm in southern europe or in scandinavia? To me
| it seems that in 40 years southern europe will be like north
| africa while scandinavia will be like southern europe. But right
| now scandinavia seems to me like 7 or 8 months of darkness (and
| cold)... so not that good for farming? I don't know.
| hkon wrote:
| We have farms in Scandinavia. No problem. And if you don't go
| too far north, it's only about 3 months that are really dark
| and cold.
| Saphyel wrote:
| My retirement plan was make my own farm in Tabarca, Spain. so I'm
| pretty much away of everything and if I want to see people I can
| get a boat to Alicante
| baremetal wrote:
| I was a software engineer for 13 years. I left the bay area and
| moved to idaho during covid. bought 20 acres of organic farmland
| with water rights. and i learned how to build houses in order to
| build my own house. now i have a business framing houses and a
| farm. im growing peas and barley this year.
|
| what do you want to know?
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| What part of Idaho?
| xxxtentacijs wrote:
| Possible to chat more? Am writing about returning to humanity
| (example: https://backtohumanity.substack.com/p/the-need-for-
| new-commu...). Could you send me an email: daosalon /a--t/
| protonmail?
| gravypod wrote:
| What material did you study to learn how to build houses? Did
| you shadow someone else while they did it? Volunteer for
| Habitat for Humanity or something?
| baremetal wrote:
| i went up to a jobsite and asked for a job.
|
| worked for a year doing that.
|
| made friends with a master carpenter i worked with and we
| teamed up to start the business.
| baremetal wrote:
| also larry haun videos (yt) and his book, the very efficient
| carpenter.
| number6 wrote:
| Where to begin? Is there a blog or something that you have
| written which tells your journey?
| baremetal wrote:
| making a site documenting the journey is on the list. i have
| taken a lot of pictures and some video.
| jdironman wrote:
| Not OP, but do you find yourself leaning towards software to
| solve farm / construction problems or do you try to do it using
| 'traditional' methods?
| baremetal wrote:
| great question.
|
| im designing a system for remote watering control.
|
| im always looking to optimize.
| recvonline wrote:
| Basically how hard it was to leave your community behind, make
| new connections and find engaging conversations with new
| friend.
|
| I am drawn to the tech scene beacause or the intellectual
| exchanges, and I am worried farming communities might not be
| where I can thrive!
|
| Other than that: Income. How did you adjust to a lower level
| income in the beginning?
| kilroy123 wrote:
| Interesting you say this. I've been a software engineer for
| ~13 years as well.
|
| I find I have much more interesting and intellectual
| conversations with people _outside_ of tech.
| jppope wrote:
| > "I find I have much more interesting and intellectual
| conversations with people outside of tech."
|
| No truer words have ever been written...
| senbrow wrote:
| The tech crowd is incredibly "one note" personality-wise
| compared to the general population! One big reason I had to
| leave after ten years as a SWE.
| whiplash451 wrote:
| You won't meet the << general >> population in the
| heartland. I understand the appeal of leaving the
| monoculture of SV tech, but deciding to farm instead is
| quite a leap.
| markdown wrote:
| > i learned how to build houses
|
| Where/how did you learn?
| robcohen wrote:
| I bought 15 acres near Mustang Ridge, TX which is close to
| Austin, TX. Obviously not Europe but I'll comment anyway. I
| bought land here because ag exemptions in TX are ridiculously
| beneficial. If you're regularly paying cap gains taxes you can
| write off a lot of expenses at a loss for the farm, including
| building roads, building a barn, utilities, animals, fencing,
| etc. The taxes are way lower with ag land, and I'm planning to
| build a small bunk house and hire someone for 30-40K/yr + free
| rent to manage the farm. Planning to have ~30 goats on the farm.
| I just haven't started operations yet because I'm working with an
| architect to put together a master farm plan.
|
| I'll do this on the side so I can have a place to stay, food to
| eat, and a "base" to keep my stuff at. I'll keep traveling in the
| summers, keep doing software engineering. I'll also have RV
| spaces to rent out and also for WWOOFers
| oxff wrote:
| You can find more of these types around the Urbit thing.
| asymmetric wrote:
| Any specific links?
| gdubs wrote:
| My wife and I bought a farm in the Pacific Northwest where we've
| placed over 12 acres of prairie and oak woodland into
| conservation with the help of the local Natural Resource
| Conservation Service. We're in the process of applying for
| organic certification for 40 acres or agricultural fields that
| were conventionally farmed before we took over.
|
| I still do iOS development professionally -- but now fully remote
| from the farm.
|
| Climate was our biggest consideration in choosing the region. I
| don't know that any place will completely escape the challenges
| of climate change -- fire is something we have to plan for an
| adapt to for instance.
|
| Anyone interested can follow the Instagram account we set up to
| share updates of what we're up to:
|
| https://Instagram.com/cleryfarm
| Mathkr wrote:
| Near Bordeaux in south west of France. Most important for me was
| be able to have at least 300m2 per person in garden to grow
| vegetables. We are 4 (2 parents, 2 children), so 1200m2 at least.
| Plus 500m2 for growing fruits, making an "edible forest". I
| choosed suburbs of Bordeaux because there is no hill, no
| mountain. To convince my family to mostly use bikes instead of
| cars, it's more easy. Another argument is its rainy but not that
| much.
| [deleted]
| ratsforhorses wrote:
| There's a guy who made it big in Silicon valley and bought 150
| hectares near Cluj , north west Romania, he's built/building 28
| houses with a school and afaik there's a agricultural component
| attached... curious if he's using ecological insulation
| (compressed sawdust, hemp, wool) or ecological plumbing, heating
| systems... seems a good intent but such initiatives have a
| tendency to push up local land prices :-( I have no idea how much
| his houses cost but since people have been going to Europe as
| "cheap" labour and especially since the banks have gotten
| involved in lending money for real estate purchases , prices have
| been going through the roof... https://youtu.be/VCBIyvYtMBI
| natly wrote:
| I can't imagine most romanians are happy with their land being
| so cheap overall (and their economy not doing great) so I doubt
| most people living there would object to the local land prices
| going up (that's a good thing).
| towaway15463 wrote:
| It'sa double edged sword, the average home price has doubled
| where I live but it's also created a homelessness problem
| where it was non existent before. This seems to also have
| increased drug use and mental problems or at least exposed
| them on the public streets but probably both. When homes are
| cheap people can get by with very little, being poor is not
| so bad when you have a roof over your head and food and
| people around you. Now the pre are sleeping rough in the
| street or overcrowded in tiny apartments with no prospects of
| having their own home. I'm sure those who can invest in
| building and selling expensive houses are doing well though.
| thfuran wrote:
| Is there anywhere where most people are really glad that a
| bunch of foreigners are coming in and driving up the prices
| of necessities?
| burntoutfire wrote:
| Most people don't own land, so rising land prices just make
| them poorer.
| bckygldstn wrote:
| Rising prices are bad for all but the most wealthy
|
| * It's bad for people who don't own a house, which
| disproportionately impacts the poor and the young.
|
| * It doesn't really help homeowners either: their property
| taxes go up but the increased land value will just be spent
| on the increased cost of a new property if they move nearby.
|
| * So the only way to realise increased land value is to move
| outside the local market. This turnover reduces the community
| of a neighbourhood, and creates pockets of dull old
| homogeneous people with no shared history.
|
| * The only real way to benefit from rising prices is to
| invest in property, further concentrating wealth among the
| wealthy.
|
| * Treating one of society's most important assets as an
| investment has a ton of negative side effects, like poor
| utilisation due to land banking, cheaply finished low quality
| buildings rather than ones that vest serve their occupants,
| evictions, further increased community turnover.
|
| * It's a self perpetuating cycle, as the wealthy investors
| vote, lobby, and just straight up are politicians.
| ratsforhorses wrote:
| I completely agree, I think the problem with "agricultural"
| land is that due to WW2 (in western Europe) we jumped too
| quickly in the 50's from a largely rural society to
| mechanised farming to pick up the slack from all that
| surplus war production and lack of (killed off) manpower.
| The wealthy have used the captive cheap labour force to
| fill it's offices, factories and rental tenements...
| Governments have made bigger farms a priority and as in NZ
| they have become the playthings of hedge funds and
| corporations (where ironically a Maori once told me
| something that still sticks with me as profoundly one of
| the best ways to manage land, telling me "in our living
| space people have their houses but it's communally owned
| land, ie " your house, our land") To certain extent our
| society is focusing on using farming largely for "junk"
| food, ie wheat and other grains for bread and bakery, corn
| for glucose syrop, rapeseed for oil used in biofuel, palm
| oil, sugar beet... and of course, meat and diary... (i
| heard something like 60% of straw is burned in Germany...)
| rather than focusing on letting people produce fruit and
| vegetables in small-scale holdings... Here in Romania a lot
| of people still live in the countryside (40%?) government
| is sidelining people selling on the street or in markets
| and the westernized , yuppified youth is being sucked into
| the glamour and anonymity of huge supermarkets full of too
| much stuff but so convenient...
| dnissley wrote:
| It _really_ depends on why prices are rising. Prices rising
| because a society is getting wealthier overall and wants to
| spend more on better quality products (or more ethically
| produced /sourced products) is not generally a bad thing.
| spaniard89277 wrote:
| That's not the case for 99% of romania.
| morphle wrote:
| British "Ben Fogle New Lives in the Wild" and Dutch "Floortje
| naar het einde van de wereld" are over 100 documentairies on this
| theme. A few of them where programmers who quit their jobs and
| started a small homestead farm or go to the wilderness and hunt.
| The majority are young families going for sustainable living.
| Another large group buys rural houses, fixes them up and rents
| them out as B&B rooms. They also have their own documentairies.
| The latest group are youtubers who document their move into the
| country. The lessons from these examples are that almost no one
| could earn a living from the farming. They all had problems with
| local laws. They all have unfixable infrastructure problems,
| especially for remote working c.q. programming jobs. Many had to
| break off when they became sick or went bankrupt. Its is very
| hard, so I started a business to help make the transition.
|
| I am trying to make a business combining the two extremes. I sell
| rural or remote wilderness land with a high-tech solar off grid
| tiny house with very good internet for around $50.000. At any
| moment I have around 10 suitable plots of land on offer. The best
| are in nature reserves, the largest 100 acres. It takes on
| average 24 months or more to find land, get permits, build the
| road, water, electricity and internet infrastructure and move the
| mobile tiny house onto the land. Spain, Portugal and Arizona
| mostly.
|
| This is for programmers and other remote workers, retirees or
| people who can't afford a house in the city. Since Covid there
| has been an large increase in people moving to remote rural
| locations. Most of them homestead, some take on the #vanlife.
|
| A new trend will be permanent living in a mobile house, RV, bus,
| truck while working remotely. This only becomes affordable with
| Starlink and an electrical truck completely plated with solar
| panels. Water is purified onboard.
|
| I expect the trend of going rural or mobile to increase even more
| in the next 10 years. I'm looking for cofounders to accommodate
| this increase in my business niche.
|
| Asimov and Larry Niven wrote some science fiction stories before
| 1970 on this theme. When Star Trek transporters become possible,
| you could go live remotely on or inside a mountain or another
| planet.
|
| Chris Stewart's "Driving Over Lemons" is a nice book describing
| the move into the country.
| satellite2 wrote:
| Do you have a website?
| morphle wrote:
| Still building the complicated website (maps and video and
| calculators), so its not yet online.
|
| I currently send out a spreadsheet brochure every week with
| new rural lands and tiny or mobile house and van conversion
| options to choose from. I do virtual tours around the nature
| reserve or farm lands online, augmented by Google Earth and
| Streetview tours with video conference sessions. I shoot
| video tours and photo galleries of the available lands and
| houses. Most of the time its more like a coaching session,
| explaining how to get a visa, how to find reliable remote
| programming jobs, how to get a loan. Explaining why its very
| hard to make the transition without my professional help.
|
| Some want to buy a turnkey house, land and infrastructure.
| This is possible but moving to a rural existence is much more
| involved than these customers think. A sales website would
| not convey this, this is why I prefer online tours and
| discussions.
|
| morphle at ziggo dot nl to request my brochures or book a
| personal tour. I'm looking for cofounders and sales people
| (on commission).
| bobwaycott wrote:
| Sent you an email. Would love to chat. This is something
| high on my interest list, and I've been thinking on how to
| make this easier for US expats to learn about and
| accomplish. There are a lot of blog posts and discussions
| about this, but making it turnkey would be great.
| morphle wrote:
| You sound like the person I want to invite to join me in
| this startup business, you current company is the perfect
| fit.
| Yeri wrote:
| Where are these plots of land?
| morphle wrote:
| Right now I have offerings in Spain, Portugal, Arizona,
| The Netherlands, Slovenia, Kroatia, Norway, Finland. For
| Americans I can offer a permanent visa for Europe as
| well, this is why the main focus is on Spain and
| Portugal.
|
| I constantly search around the world, but most lands do
| not qualify because of local political rules. My best is
| a 100 acre(!) forest on the slope of a mountain. I have
| several mountain plots with a whitewater river flowing
| all year. Land plots with an entire forest or lake.
|
| I tried to offer land in Kazachstan, Ukrain, Bangladesh,
| India, Argentina, Costa Rica, Australia and the Amazon
| rainforest but either foreigners are not allowed to own
| land or it is without Starlink or fiber backbones where
| not available or the country is involved in a war.
|
| Above $50K (including the land, mobile house and
| infrastructure) I have a lot more offerings worldwide.
| Islands in Belize or very remote pacific islands, but you
| need a boat so its more than $50K. Desert locations, but
| you must have 4WD and only have two satelite or radio
| 100mbps connections and need multiple batteries, no
| fiber. Medical facilities only by plane or helicopter.
| UncleEntity wrote:
| I have a friend who moved on some land near Holbrook,
| Arizona and it is challenging from what he says.
|
| No electricity, has to truck in water, nearest paved road
| is 45 minutes, closest big box store (Costco) is in
| Phoenix, dirt roads flood when it rains and he has to
| camp out in the post office parking lot when it snows so
| he doesn't get stuck trying to go work.
|
| And he loves it...
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| I stopped overnight in Holbrook on my way through to
| Phoenix in January, they were supposed to get an inch or
| so of snow overnight, and the locals kept advising me to
| wait until the snow clears before resuming my trip. I was
| tickled because I'm from the rural midwest where 2 inches
| of fresh snow was a best case scenario growing up.
| Holbrook gets about 5 inches of snow a year whereas my
| native county would get 42 inches (the US average is a
| little under 30).
| SenHeng wrote:
| I live in snow country too, and I think this advice isn't
| really about your ability to handle the snow. It's that
| they don't get snow often enough to know how to drive on
| snow. Then there's all the out-of-towners that drive
| faster than 60km/h when it's puking snow.
| peteradio wrote:
| They also don't have rescue equipment like the midwest.
| We have scalable plow trucks which work for medium rescue
| and even special large tracked vehicles for deep snow
| efforts.
| UncleEntity wrote:
| If Holbrook is getting snow then Flagstaff is probably
| getting hammered which is most likely what they were
| concerned about. I've been through Flagstaff a few times
| when they really should have shut down the roads but
| didn't for who knows why, it's not like Arizonans are
| known for their bad weather driving skills. They actually
| have a "Stupid Motorist Law" for people who drive through
| flooded roads and have to be rescued because it happens
| so often.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| Two times I have almost and even started to drive through
| a flooded road in the east coast. During Hurricane Sandy
| aftermath and another time. Luckily both times my immense
| worry of social embarrassment saved me from possibly
| getting stuck. A "Stupid Motorist Law" sounds good. I
| don't know the first thing about cars, I shouldn't be
| driving through flooded roads to save 30 min.
| Arete314159 wrote:
| For Americans, how much does it cost to get permanent
| residency? To my understanding, it's $500k for a golden
| visa from Spain, which is too rich for my blood.
| satellite2 wrote:
| That sounds weird. I would expect a 500k donation (and
| probably much less) to give you access to the
| nationality.
| moltar wrote:
| Definitely not the case for Portugal. You can invest
| 500K, but it's not a donation, you still own the asset.
| Or you can apply for a D7 visa.
| morphle wrote:
| An American can get a permanent working visa in the EU
| (most of Europe) by starting a company and having $4500
| sitting idle in a bank account. You still own this $4500
| and can spend it after a few years. In essence the Dutch
| government wants you to reserve the money for a airplane
| ticket and the move back to the US. Without this money
| you look like an economic refugee and they won't give you
| your visa.
|
| So I have set up a few companies (a Coop, a non-profit
| and C-Corp, LTD, B.V.) in the Netherlands just for this
| purpose. You register yourself as a cofounder/owner of
| this company (free) and put $4500 in the company bank
| account. You now qualify for a working visa and can start
| roaming all over the EU.
|
| I'm a little vague here, because I want to sell you all
| the advice and legal work to set all this up for $1000.
| You first get advice from all the other Americans I
| helped emigrate to Europe over the years. morphle at
| ziggo dot nl
|
| Without my help it will cost you a few months, three
| visits to the Netherlands, setting up a company from
| scratch and hiring a notary, a lawyer and an expat fiscal
| tax lawyer for at least $19.000 all together.
| pbourke wrote:
| Does the permanent working visa have a path to
| citizenship in an EU country?
| morphle wrote:
| Yes, but only for Americans
| morphle wrote:
| I have just received 314 request in the last 3 hours for my
| brochure of turnkey rural land+tiny house+visa +off grid
| infrastructure for $50.000. I'll send out the material this
| weekend. I expanded the list of land plots to 31 today.
|
| With so many interested people I think we should set up an
| online community. It could grow into the support network for
| us remote rural people worldwide. I'll add the myrad links to
| the biographies, blogs, vlogs, websites, articles and
| resources. I'll put up this website at http://ruralremote.org
| and a backup at http://fiberhood.org within 24 hours
|
| The reason I offer rural land plus working visa plus a tiny
| house and infrastructure as a package is that it is very hard
| to arrange all this by oneself, especially for city people.
| It took me three years fulltime work, thousands of hours of
| video and many failures before I was successful. But its all
| worth it, off course! Waking up with deer drinking at your
| own river, walking for an hour through your own forest to
| reach the edge, getting lost on your own land, planting an
| acre of trees, planting and eating your own food, having
| meetings with customers from all around the world with a
| laptop under a palm tree, it really is as magical as I
| thought it would be.
|
| But you still need at least a $1000 income from remote work
| and a visa, without it its even harder to make remote living
| work at all. Maybe we can help you find that remote work too,
| now that we have a large group of interested people.
|
| More than 50% of people who attempt it wound up broke, ill or
| destitute, giving up after 10 year at moving to a rural off-
| grid existence.
|
| Don't be fooled by the low land prices, it is the easy part.
| Building and living permits and working visa are hard. Anyone
| can get an acre of land for $1000 in most of the US and
| Europe. Few can actually live there for more than a year
| (cold, drought, crime).
|
| Cheap land is not the problem you have to solve. How to be
| warm in the winter, how to make a living when the nearest
| town is 2 hours driving, what to do when you are sick and
| 300km from a hospital, where you get the money to buy food or
| transport. How to find a partner or how to deal with
| loneliness.
|
| I'l sell you an almost turnkey solution but you still need
| months of planning and preparation while your custom tiny
| house is being built (or existing house being renovated). I
| sell you my construction labour for $8K, $15K
| internet,electrical heating and water infrastructure, $21K
| house building materials, $6K legal fees and experience from
| a network of people who have made the transition.
| spaniard89277 wrote:
| Hmm, none of the links work.
|
| As a Spaniard, I'm curious on how you're dealing with the
| amount of BS most municipialities throw at you, specially
| construction permits.
|
| Also, why don't you make it as a community? I mean, it
| would be way easier to pool resources, make it cheaper for
| your customers and a more stable income for you, although
| they wouldn't be owners but renters.
|
| Also, IDK in Portugal but getting on-grid electricity and
| internet (even fiber, if you're not too remote) shouldn't
| be a problem in Spain
| morphle wrote:
| I am still setting up the website, the links will start
| working around sunday evening of June 5th 2022. Until
| then you can email me at ( morphle at ziggo dot nl ).
|
| I am making it a community site, with a HN type
| discussion forum and video blog hosting.
|
| Fiber internet outside of a town is very much a problem
| in Spain! Electricity hookup (its called 'Solar' in
| Spanish) is almost impossible because you first need
| building and living permits and you simply will never
| ever get one. In Portugal its usually even harder. Laws
| are different in Arizona but still a big problem. You
| might need permission from the local tribe, or bridge a
| few hundred miles with microwave dishes as a backup to
| your Starlink. Having reliable electricity at night
| requires inverters and batteries that are not for sale
| yet, they must be custom built. And then you still need
| road access to your cheap rural land...
|
| These are the reasons my company needs to help you find
| suitable land, get the permits and build your tiny house,
| because you can not do all that on your own, especially
| the electricity, water and internet you need for remote
| work.
|
| First you need a community of rural land owners to fund
| the (minimal $25K) infrastructure build out . My company
| Fiberhood sets up a 300 Mbps Starlink Premium for
| Business ($9000 for the first year) on your land with 4G
| backup antennes and then builds a local fiber network to
| all the farms in the neighbourhood. After 12 months we
| hook up the fiber to the fiber backbone 100 km away, then
| you get 10 Gbps for around $99 per month on your rural
| land, fit for running a remote business.
|
| As a Spaniard you point out the BS the municipalities
| (Ajuntamente) throw at you about permits. Don't forget
| the regional governments, the tax department, the
| electricity companies, etc. All over Europe this is a
| problem, but rural Spain and Portugal are especially
| difficult. This is why we only offer off-grid living in a
| few dozen locations this year. Only these locations where
| we have already managed to convince the local governments
| to give us permission, or place where we have found legal
| loopholes in the law. One example I can give is land in a
| nature reserve where you will never get a building permit
| for any house. But you are allowed to park a truck in
| that forest and live in it. In other places we get
| permits on our land because we build infrastructure to
| the local town as well. But you alone would never get
| that building or living permit, ever. You need to
| befriend the local technical architect and the mayor, buy
| them a couple of beers and have you children play soccer
| with them for a year before they will even listen to your
| building proposals that took you $5000 to draw up by
| another technical architect you hire. And it would still
| take a few years to get the 11 or so permits you need. We
| figure all this out for you, build the infrastucture and
| make a liveable house. You can off course do some of that
| work yourself (on top of your remote work you also do)
| but you still need our help in the first 2 years with
| permits and infrastructure.
| CommieBobDole wrote:
| > Electricity hookup (its called 'Solar' in Spanish) is
| almost impossible because you first need building and
| living permits and you simply will never ever get one.
|
| Interesting. Is this an intentional thing i.e."We don't
| want people to live outside of towns so we're not going
| to issue any occupancy permits", or a bureaucratic
| incompetence/corruption thing?
| morphle wrote:
| Yes, its all intentional, many laws. On top of that also
| bureaucratic hurdles, widespread incompetence and a
| little corruption. But our company gradually learned the
| solutions with the help of many Spanish and Portugese
| locals and high fees for the local lawyers and technical
| architects. There are millions of dwellings in Spain and
| Portugal built without permits. Nowadays they are
| demolished quickly if they find out. Buying the older
| illegal houses is also dangerous (and the reason so many
| foreigners are scammed bying their dream property).
|
| For example, you can not build on rural land outside of
| town, not on farm land or on nature reserves. The
| government owns the water, you can't just digg a well.
| You can only get permission to build a tool shed in some
| areas if you own at least 5000m2. The police will evict
| you if you start building or living on your land, tipped
| off by the neighbours who don't like foreigners or
| competition from your farm. If you rent out your house to
| tourist, you'll need a permit and pay more taxes. And
| anything is slow, you'll run out of money much quicker
| than the government runs out of ways to delay you. Watch
| the 17 years of Dutch episodes (thru a dutch VPN) of "Ik
| Vertrek" for all the horror stories of people buying land
| or houses in Europe and losing all their money.
| Off wrote:
| Do you offer such service for people who live in third world
| countries too? We are a couple, we live in Africa and want to
| move to Europe for a better quality of life but we don't want
| to live in the city. 50k is a bit hard to collect but we can
| manage if such a service would work for non-americans.
| morphle wrote:
| Yes we do, but it ususally will require more work to
| accommodate your specific situation. You might need to help
| us with that work to keep cost down. I'm brainstorming now:
| Maybe you could keep your African house or land for a few
| years and swap with one of our rural land owners in Europe? I
| know a few who dream of living in Africa. Or we find enough
| tourists to rent your African place. We probably could get
| you permanent visa's if you would legally be on the payroll
| of our coop (but maybe also keep your current jobs).
| Depending on your nationality, you need different visas.
| After a few years in Europe you would become citizens and
| would no longer need visa's. I am sure we could work out a
| way that would not cost you $50K, maybe you could work for it
| and rent. We have helped African students to emigrate. Yes,
| I'm sure there are ways to make it work for you, send me an
| email and we'll make a plan.
| solomonb wrote:
| Not exactly a farm but I have a half acre property on the edge of
| Los Angeles where I have substantial gardens. I have a food
| forest, a bunch of raised beds for annuals, a greenhouse, and an
| extensive compost operation.
|
| It is really nice to be able to take a break from coding, step
| outside, and turn the compost.
| bjelkeman-again wrote:
| I used to live in London, UK, but have started software
| companies/organisations in California, Amsterdam in the
| Netherlands, and been deeply involved with a h/w and s/w startup
| in Bangalore. We started an company to build circular food
| production systems, based in Sweden. We have fish, vegetables and
| insects. It is on a farm, but we are not traditional farmers. You
| can read a build log here:
|
| https://cirkularodling.se/build-an-aquaponic-indoor-farm-par...
| jelliclesfarm wrote:
| I am working on a project that is basically a 100+ acre farm that
| is collectively owned and will be mostly(eventually fully)
| automated.
|
| It is the kind of farm that appeals for those who don't want to
| wrestle with tractors, are nature lovers, not tech phobic and are
| ok with farming co-operatively.
|
| Initial stages..so any input on what SWE/farmers really expect
| would be much appreciated. It would help me figure out what my
| future tech farmers would want and what they can tolerate.
|
| The main focus is on automating enough so one person is able to
| handle 1-5 acres(0.5-2 hectares approx) without additional
| labour. And building a community so there is tool sharing and
| collectively sell as a co-op.
|
| I have taken in inputs from mostly Americans. I don't know if
| something like this will work elsewhere in the world. It's
| certainly challenging in the USA...not least because of zoning
| and certain other issues. Especially in California.
| Dylanfm wrote:
| North coast of Scotland, as far north as you can go on the
| mainland. Dark winters and long summer daylight. Didn't move here
| to start a farm (moved for the surf), but started a small market
| garden as a side-project a couple years ago. Also developing
| software for running a market garden, good to be my own user.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| The winning idea seems to be employed in SV and get SV salaries
| and then move to a farm in Europe and work remotely.
|
| This is easy to do if you are an US citizen. I wonder how us,
| poor Europeans, can do the same thing.
| moltar wrote:
| Considering software developers in Portugal make EUR2K/mo and
| are still able to "survive" in the cities, I'm sure you don't
| need a SV salary to live well in the rural area.
| jonasdegendt wrote:
| I'm in Belgium and a colleague of mine just bought a house and
| moved to Italy, near Bergamo whilst staying employed with us.
| I'm sure she's doing more than fine financially, even without a
| SV wage.
|
| So the trick's to be Western/Northern European, and move to
| Southern Europe. /s
|
| There's still plenty of remote opportunities with good pay in
| Europe that could sustain this kind of living.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| Works out - because southern Europe has great weather!
| whiplash451 wrote:
| Easy until you try to open a bank account in a French bank with
| US citizenship. Good luck with that.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| www.bunq.com issues French IBANs.
| whiplash451 wrote:
| How do you convince your SV-based company that the 9h time
| difference will be fine?
| monodeldiablo wrote:
| Rehabilitated an abandoned olive farm in Dalmatia, although all
| my income still comes from software consulting. 90% of the oil
| goes to family and friends.
|
| Burned out on startup hours and the hamster wheel of tech and
| realized I was barely spending any time with my young family. I
| always wanted to help and learn how my in-laws made such
| incredible wine, olive oil, and cured meats.
|
| My SO is Croatian, so the move itself wasn't that difficult. The
| culture shock was real, though, and developing fluency in a
| totally new language in my 30s was, in retrospect, a full time
| job that I badly underestimated.
|
| The change in pace of life, horizon expansion, new relationships,
| learning adventures, and the pride in bottling my very own extra
| virgin, organic, hand-picked olive oil... Worth every struggle
| even at twice the cost.
| tluyben2 wrote:
| Not a professional farm but for our own food (as vegetarians);
| Spain first and now Portugal. Land is cheap and plentiful, a lot
| of stuff grows multiple times per year. Water is an issue which
| is why we moved to a wet part of Portugal. We grow all our fruit
| and veg etc and eggs organically. It would not be very hard or
| expensive to scale it up somewhat; my neighbours all make enough
| to live with larger plots of land. No idea how to do it on a
| large scale. Also I am still a software engineer but working less
| hours these days.
| uxcolumbo wrote:
| This sounds great.
|
| What resources would you recommend for people looking to move
| to the Porto region.
|
| And what sort of budget should one have?
| ArtWomb wrote:
| >>> Portugal. Land is cheap and plentiful
|
| Really interesting! Can you provide ballpark as to prices. I
| know 3-4 families from NYC area that moved to Portugal
| recently. If you wish to buy a vineyard here, in a choice
| location, you'll be priced out at like $50k per acre. If you
| can even find a plot of tillable land available that covers 50+
| acres. Alternately, Amazon is subletting 10M of warehouse space
| in NJ, so you could grow grapes indoors?
|
| CERN / Swiss Alps / French Burgundy region also looks like it
| has potential for those seeking the "Chateau de Guedelon"
| medieval lifestyle ;)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%C3%A9delon_Castle
| TheMerovingian wrote:
| I've been following a number of folks who also moved to
| Portugal with the intent of buying an old plot of land and
| refurbishing it into a working farm for themselves [0]. As much
| as it is fun to imagine living this lifestyle, it is very hard
| work. I'd reiterate the water issue in Portugal; it can rain
| for a month, but it can also be dry for many more months. A
| water well or cistern is recommended.
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/c/MAKEDOGROW
| recvonline wrote:
| Are you speaking the language? And was it hard to create or be
| part of the local community?
| tluyben2 wrote:
| I am bad at natural languages, but I am Dutch so my
| television when I was young was English, German, French,
| Flemish and bad bad Dutch tv. So I have some advantage but
| communicating with a few words, English and hands and feet
| works fine with the locals. My wife learns languages very
| fast (she is also dutch but she learned Mandarin when we were
| working in china and was good with the locals when we left)
| so that helps, but the people mostly speak English and insist
| on speaking English to practice; these are 20-50 y/o Spanish,
| Portuguese and expats.
|
| It took about 2 years to be an integral part of the community
| in spain; Portugal took a few months and we don't speak
| Portuguese yet because everyone understands English and with
| Spanish Portuguese is not hard to understand. But all
| communications are in English really.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Without doxing yourself what region of Portugal are you in
| at the moment? Also if you have children, how are you
| finding the local education sys?
| tluyben2 wrote:
| We moved more north for the rain; east of Porto.
|
| No children (by choice) so cannot say anything about
| that.
| alx__ wrote:
| I loved Lisbon and have contemplated moving to Portugal. Don't
| know how challenging it is for an American to migrate there.
| Have romantic notions of a garden+bakery. :)
| spaniard89277 wrote:
| Portugal is a really nice country but I don't know how
| sustainable is to have this dual tax system for nationals and
| foreigners. Nationals are being screwed by this, and I know
| for sure that If I was Portuguese I'll be pretty angry.
| exdsq wrote:
| This is my goal. I'm currently in the Bay Area but hope to move
| back to the UK and have a decent sized farm (maybe tickle my tech
| interests by focusing on hydroponics/aquaponics) to feed my
| family and then sell the extras at a local market. Currently 28,
| I think I'll aim to do this around my 40th birthday and see it as
| a pseudo-retirement.
| hihihihi1234 wrote:
| Where in the UK do you think is a good place to do this kind of
| thing? My wife and I have been toying with the idea of doing
| something like this - it won't be for at least another few
| years, but it's still really just an idea at this point;
| neither of us have much experience in this sphere and we're not
| sure where to start.
|
| What do we need to know? Any resources you recommend we check
| out?
| aakashsigdel wrote:
| I am on the same boat as well. Toying with various ideas and
| want to do something similar here in the UK in few years.
| Would be great to see some resources on this
| spacetraveler11 wrote:
| Same for me. Not sure yet where though. On my own I'd be free
| to chose anywhere but I've been playing around with the idea of
| doing it together with my cousin who is interested in this as
| well. When we were kids we would often times help our grandpa
| in his garden who was growing all kinds of vegetables and
| fruits there. I want to become like my grandpa and see my
| grandchildren playing on my land.
| bkovacev wrote:
| Does anyone have experience with countryside in Italy (Tuscany
| specifically) or Spain? I'd love to move there in a few years and
| start producing wine on a smaller scale.
| ratsforhorses wrote:
| I'd also like to throw you some links...
| https://elpocito.wordpress.com/
|
| Pfaf.org plants for a future
|
| Ic.org intentional communities
|
| Basically "unproductive" land is/should be cheap, being out of
| the hustle and bustle of city life is great for clearing your
| mind, travel to a warmer climate (or snug it down) in the winter,
| consider it'll take you about a decade but your barren land can
| become a real cornucopia... There's a feel good film out there
| called "the biggest little farm"https://youtu.be/UfDTM4JxHl8
| fxfm wrote:
| I am in the SF Bay Area (out there a bit) and have a large garden
| and budding orchard. We often have enough to sell / share and am
| interested in officially starting a farm, but am not clear on the
| process and whether this makes financial sense. I would
| appreciate any pointers to information on the business and tax
| side of a small, home-based farm in California in particular.
| Thanks!
| thomaspaulmann wrote:
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uwKTRv2ZDV0&t=2s
| azemetre wrote:
| A tech podcast interviewed someone recently that does SWE and
| farming in Germany. Sounds exactly what you're looking for, they
| ask him most of the questions you want answered:
|
| https://syntax.fm/show/466/supper-club-coding-burnout-and-ga...
| monsieurUK wrote:
| I live on a countryside in England.
| medion wrote:
| Moved to rural Australia 7 years ago, near the ocean on 1
| hectare. Internet via p2p wireless. Recently purchased 6 hectares
| with better sun orientation to take things more seriously. Would
| never, ever go back to my previous city life. Weened off tech
| work over the years and am much happier, the internet isn't the
| fun place it once was anymore.
| blaydator wrote:
| Near Albi, Tarn, France, (1h from) Toulouse. Working remotely as
| a SWE. Balancing between two extremes, growing veggies and
| coding. Had to install a 4g antennas works like a charm.
| Countryside in France is cheap, not to remote (5min from bakery,
| market, college), 15min from coworking Space (once a week to see
| friends), friendly neighbors, living my dream. Move here 2 years
| ago with my wife and new born. We made friends, bought a farm
| with 2ha. My quality of life is amazing. Please ama if inspired
| or investigating France !
| throwaway41597 wrote:
| Do you feel like you got lucky with neighbors? One fear I have
| is neighbors not liking some weird nerd living next door.
|
| Are you extroverted or introverted?
|
| Are they mostly nosy or indifferent?
|
| Also, do you find younger neighbors easier to connect with or
| age doesn't matter?
|
| Thanks!
| Fiahil wrote:
| > bought a farm with 2ha
|
| We bought an old farm in the east of Bretagne. I'm mostly into
| growing trees. What kind of farming equipment do you own for
| 2ha ? It's too big for growing anything by hand, but not that
| much for a big tractor
| spaniard89277 wrote:
| There are plenty of small tractor brands in Europe. I know
| that italians have at least a handful of them.
|
| If you speak spanish go and ask in the agroterra forums.
| saalweachter wrote:
| At least in the US, you can still find "vintage" tractors
| like the Ford 8N or an old Allis Chalmers or Farm-All, which
| were sized for much smaller fields.
|
| They're simple enough machines and you can still find parts
| for them; if you want to add machining to your skillset, you
| can also find the manuals that tell you how to machine new
| parts yourself.
| throwaway894345 wrote:
| I studied at a school outside of Rennes. I always enjoyed
| going for walks in the countryside. I remember one day
| walking on a gravel road and hearing a loud engine and then
| seeing a 1969ish Ford Mustang crest a hill. It reminded me of
| home (America).
| blaydator wrote:
| Vegetable garden is on 300m2. Fruit trees on 500m2 currently
| expanding it to another 500m2 and planning to add chicken,
| dwarf goat and geese. 1.3ha is a meadow mown by a farmer to
| make hay bales, in exchange for 2 bales. My plan is to slowly
| expand on the meadow to make guest houses (for tourism and
| yoga retreats for my wife)n fruit trees and animals. Rest of
| land is composed of buildings (main house, guest house, yoga
| studio, and other dependencies) and garden.
|
| I am not a farmer, and I don't enjoy spending my time cutting
| grass, that's why I am planning on adding small animals as
| they eat grass all day. I am trying to minimize the "human"
| part of the land, so I am using basic thermic tools (mower,
| brush cutter...) to cut grass and trees.
| dlivingston wrote:
| This is fascinating and I've long 'fantasized' about living
| that kind of life. A few questions, if you indulge me:
|
| - What prompted you to make that switch to rural developer?
|
| - Are you an expat or French? If an expat, what was your pre-
| France life like?
|
| - What is cost of living like, and how does that compare with
| your salary?
|
| - Does/did your salary get affected by your remote location?
| blaydator wrote:
| > - What prompted you to make that switch to rural developer?
|
| My wife's parents live in the countryside. Coming from an
| urban place, I enjoyed being surrounded by nature. Best thing
| for me is coding under a tree, listening to birds.
|
| It's my life journey, I was't happy in cities. I just found
| my balance in that way but it took us time to find the right
| place (not to remote, not to expansive, not to "old",
| etc...).
|
| - Are you an expat or French? If an expat, what was your pre-
| France life like?
|
| French.
|
| - What is cost of living like, and how does that compare with
| your salary?
|
| It is really subjective but I feel like living in abundance.
| Earning 50kEUR/yr after all taxes (working 30 hours a week,
| 10 weeks OFF). I bought the farm for 300kEUR. Standard houses
| (100m2 with 1000m2 garden) are loaned for 600EUR/month around
| here.
|
| - Does/did your salary get affected by your remote location?
|
| I have always worked remotely so no change at all.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> Earning 50kEUR /yr after all taxes (working 30 hours a
| week, 10 weeks OFF)_
|
| Wow, that's insanely good!
|
| Can I ask how to find such a great job? I live in Austria
| and make 50kEUR/yr _BEFORE_ taxes, 40h /week, 5 weeks off,
| significantly worse off than you, but that seems to be the
| norm in this country.
| throawayaway wrote:
| belugacat wrote:
| Also French, did the same thing (albeit in the Alps rather than
| the south :) after being very burned out living in a tiny San
| Francisco apartment during Covid, post LTR breakup.
|
| Huge boost for my mental health - I can go for beautiful walks
| anytime I want, the local village has a huge sense of
| community, I've been spending more time with my family (which
| I'd neglected while building my career abroad over the last 15
| years), the food is so tasty and all local, I'm very close (~30
| min drive) to mid sized cities, and my cost of living
| necessities is not even 1k euro a month...
|
| The one downside is that dating is pretty close to impossible.
| Pretty much anyone over the age of 25 has kids, and it's not in
| tiny mountain villages that you'll find people who are into the
| same kind of nerdy multicultural things that you are. (the
| postwoman is pretty cute but huh that seems like a bad idea).
| I've been back in the bay area for work since, but turns out "I
| spend most of my time on a farm in rural Europe" is a turnoff
| for city people, YMMV.
|
| So definitely do it after you're partnered, if that matters to
| you.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| > the postwoman is pretty cute but huh that seems like a bad
| idea
|
| I think you mean seems like a very cute romantic comedy!
| enos_feedler wrote:
| Thanks for sharing this. Ive been living in a tiny 350 sqft
| apartment in palo alto for the entire pandemic alone after a
| long term relationship (15 years). I think i need this kind
| of change. $1k euro sounds nice. With my car lease and food
| prices I am burning 3.5k per month on top of rent. I just
| work for myself on a computer. I don't have an EU passport
| but surely I could find somewhere similar in north america
| mistrial9 wrote:
| palo alto is an extreme environment.. surely the readers
| have to know that
| adfm wrote:
| I have to agree with this statement. Born and raised in
| the bay area and unless you are contractually required,
| there are far better places to live than the valley. Find
| a place that you enjoy and travel in for meetings. You'll
| save a ton of money and bypass the majority of
| forgettable distractions that lure you in. Austin blew up
| during the pandemic, but I hear good things about
| Columbus and Louisville. Now is the best time to find
| your work/life balance in the back of beyond.
| blorenz wrote:
| I've been here in Columbus since 2008 and it is nice
| place to raise a family. It's a nice cost of living and
| us plenty to do. I'm on 5 acres just 20 minutes outside
| of the city. It's a wonderful environment where I WFH
| from an RV that I purchased in 2014 that was sitting idle
| outside of my house pretty much all year. I got into
| adult ice hockey in 2015 which supplements some
| competitive activity as well as cardio. I am afraid that
| with the new chip plant that Intel is dropping here that
| cost of living will be driven up. I'm sure there will be
| many more things to do as this place fills out even more.
| There are plenty of corn fields that are being developed
| into housing, retail shopping and commercial distribution
| centers.
| conradfr wrote:
| > the postwoman is pretty cute but huh that seems like a bad
| idea
|
| That's a Curb Your Enthusiasm plot. Beware if you want to
| reset the relationship!
| hardlianotion wrote:
| I moved out to "pays de mont blanc" after similar reasons
| (covid and burnout) tho I had more walking and cycling in
| mind than farming.
|
| Great local produce and strong farming culture. My neighbours
| have been here for generations.
| blaydator wrote:
| I can totally relate to your lifestyle!
|
| Totally agree, partner before.
|
| Tarn is pretty young and dynamic though, lots of associations
| (permaculture, ecology, etc..).
| Termitiono wrote:
| How did immigration work for you?
|
| Any blog about your buy experience?
|
| Any Tipps?
| xxxtentacijs wrote:
| Possible to chat more? Am writing regularly about returning
| to humanity (example:
| https://backtohumanity.substack.com/p/the-need-for-new-
| commu...). Could you send me an email: daosalon /a--t/
| protonmail?
| burntoutfire wrote:
| > did the same thing
|
| Are you doing both SWE job and farming, as the OP? If so, how
| do find time for walks etc.? I imagine farming itself is very
| time-intesive activity.
| belugacat wrote:
| Same as with everything in life, we never have enough time,
| so you get help from others, and you make sure to make time
| for what you want to do.
|
| I guess I won't starve if my beans don't make it, which is
| a nice privilege for sure.
|
| Also not having kids helps a lot with remaining master of
| your time and energy :)
| Foobar8568 wrote:
| Which surface do you farm? 2ha looks a bit huge :o
| blaydator wrote:
| Vegetable garden is on 300m2. Fruit trees on 500m2 expanding
| it to another 500m2 and planning to add chicken, dwarf goat
| and geese. 1.3ha is mown by a farmer to make hay bales, in
| exchange for 2 bales. Rest is buildings (main house, guest
| house, yoga studio, dependencies) and garden.
| edmcnulty101 wrote:
| Were you American and immigrated?
| [deleted]
| SnowHill9902 wrote:
| >>France !
|
| He's definitely French.
| gojomo wrote:
| Is a space-before-exclamation-point a Frenchism?
| blaydator wrote:
| It is ! Space before any "double" ponctuations ; like
| this. Isn't ? Sry
| me_bx wrote:
| Yes. Question marks, exclamation marks, colons and
| semicolons take a space character before.
|
| More details: https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education
| /grammar/should-y...
| [deleted]
| blaydator wrote:
| Definitely !
| frogger8 wrote:
| Tarn looks like a magical part of the world! Definitely plan to
| visit for about a month once 5g or other solid internet option
| is available at the Airbnb we end up at.
| blaydator wrote:
| I have installed a 4g antenna on the roof :
| https://www.speedtest.net/fr/result/13239915850
|
| 50EUR for truly unlimited traffic.
|
| Fiber coming next year in all the Tarn!
| vintagedave wrote:
| > Please ama if inspired or investigating France !
|
| I'm inspired, and I'd love to hear more. I'm curious about the
| prices: I spent a while just now looking up real estate and saw
| land ranging from 3,000eur (in accessible, no road) to
| 80,000eur (inaccessible, no road, but near a village) for about
| the same area, a hectare or so, in the east near the Alps. I
| don't know enough about France to know if I was looking in a
| particularly representative area: for interest, my goal would
| be to live in a stone house (maybe one I built myself) in
| deeply mid-European forest (oaks, etc) near hilled mixed
| forest/farmland or near forested mountains.
|
| I'm looking at Estonia for the same reason (plus I live there
| already.) Few hills and no mountains, and a long winter, but it
| is a very forested country, and very high-tech.
| rvnx wrote:
| Regarding Estonia prices are raising very fast (20%+
| inflation), the weather is quite cold, people speak very well
| English in the cities, but if you plan to live in the
| country-side it's not that great. There is significant risk
| of geopolitical instability and conflicts in the society
| (last month lot of people were concerned). Also in the
| relative short-term, government plans to raise taxes (in
| particular land taxes) so I'm not sure I'd recommend it as a
| plan to settle for the next 10 years. You can look at
| country-side France (cities are generally horrible though but
| deep country-side is great to live), Switzerland or Slovenia.
| rejor121 wrote:
| I'm also very interested in France in the next few years, and
| the wife and I have talked about it. Thing is, I'm American and
| she's Chinese. We might have enough money to buy a place in the
| near future but actually being able to live there is another
| problem.
|
| That said, I'm software and she's finance so we might be able
| to find something
| nextos wrote:
| Mid Spain or the Pyrenees area have amazing spots, just to
| name two regions, and it is really easy to get a residence
| permit if you invest in a property.
| LunaSea wrote:
| How's the water situation there?
|
| I was under the impression that it would (soon) be too dry.
| blaydator wrote:
| It's still fine as it is a semi-continental climate. Raining
| a lot in winter, summer pretty dry and hot (95 degF /
| 35degC). I have got a 8m3 of buried water tank, planning to
| build a 10m3 more (by a pro) and a well that dries up in
| summer + water from public network (of course).
| ornornor wrote:
| How did you learn the skills to grow your crops and look after
| everything?
| blaydator wrote:
| Not a farmer, still a SWE. Growing crops is a hobby.
|
| Youtube and concret experiences (eg : start with urban
| farming in shared garden).
|
| En https://www.youtube.com/c/RichardPerkinsofRidgedale
| https://www.youtube.com/c/jamesprigioni
|
| Fr https://www.youtube.com/c/AgricultureVivri%C3%A8re
| https://www.youtube.com/c/LepotagerdOlivier
| https://www.youtube.com/c/AntoinelePotagiste
| https://www.youtube.com/c/PermacultureFrance
| Termitiono wrote:
| Hui you did exactly what we are currently trying to do.
|
| I'm from Germany and France countryside is so much cheaper than
| anything in Germany, looks nice and they have great food.
|
| I also want to work remote and actually can.
|
| Do you have more to share? Blog? Email? Are you from France?
|
| Any knowledge on building code?
|
| Did you check future proves like water table?
| blaydator wrote:
| > Do you have more to share? Blog? Email? Are you from
| France?
|
| Sorry no blog. Email in my profile, we can have a zoom.
|
| > Any knowledge on building code?
|
| I am a developper since 10 years.
|
| > Did you check future proves like water table?
|
| I did my research, looks ok to me. Long topic.. Got a well
| and 8m3 of buried tank currently, planning to build 10m3
| more. But I am not a prepper.
| jonchurch_ wrote:
| Think they meant "building codes" as in "what are you
| legally allowed to build on your own land". Laws governing
| structures and how they are constructed.
| xxxtentacijs wrote:
| I would also like to chat, but I don't see your email in
| your profile. I'm writing regularly about returning to
| humanity (example:
| https://backtohumanity.substack.com/p/the-need-for-new-
| commu...). Could you send me an email: daosalon /a--t/
| protonmail so we can talk?
| hkt wrote:
| Not exactly a farm, in the UK you can get allotments for
| virtually nothing (PS50 a _year_ for half an acre) which I do. I
| have a shed there I do computer work from, and do organic
| permaculture all over the plot, plus somewhere for the kids to
| sit and eat their sandwiches. I didn 't have to seek anywhere out
| and strongly recommend it to anyone in the UK!
| aakashsigdel wrote:
| I am toying with various ideas and want to do something similar
| here in the UK in few years. Would be great if you could share
| some resources on this?
| dathos wrote:
| We recently bought a finca with about 2ha in Spain. We're fixing
| up the house, since it was basically 4 walls and a roof, and
| already eating from our garden and fruit trees.
| chews wrote:
| I did a sabbatical in Lund Sweden, WOFd it, did it for two summer
| seasons and 1 winter crop. I needed time away from a hectic life.
|
| Full time farming while amazingly fun and fulfilling is really
| hard physical work.
|
| When I came back to engineering a lot had changed quickly. Took
| years to "catch up" and overall it was a struggle to return.
|
| Glad I took the wine away though.
| tomrule007 wrote:
| If you want to get into farming I would suggest giving woofing
| (worldwide opportunities on organic farms) try first.
|
| A directory of farmers that allow volunteers in exchange for room
| and board (that is the default but there is also plenty that also
| provide extras like small stipends and training). Little hard to
| do if you already have a family but great if you are single and
| want to see what farming is like.
|
| https://wwoof.net/
| idealmedtech wrote:
| There's a huge variety of experiences to be had while woofing,
| so make sure you prepare for the worst (tent sleeping, very
| little shower access, controlling hosts). Definitely talk to
| alums of whichever site you have in mind if possible!
| formerkrogemp wrote:
| I wouldn't recommend woofing. Or migrating on a farm worker
| visa. The power imbalance there has strong potential for
| abuse. Speaking to alums is a good idea.
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