[HN Gopher] There is no reason to cross the U.S. by train but I ...
___________________________________________________________________
There is no reason to cross the U.S. by train but I did it anyway
(2019)
Author : Tomte
Score : 102 points
Date : 2022-05-30 14:23 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| rascul wrote:
| Weird. In Firefox, on Android, reader mode gets me a long article
| about some people in Alaska.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| Here's another chance to mention the greatest train song ever
| written: City of New Orleans, by the great Steve Goodman (RIP).
|
| Be sure to watch the related video where Arlo Guthrie talks about
| how Steve importuned him after a show at the Quiet Knight and
| played the song for him.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ztWNJYFrU
| xg15 wrote:
| > _(The nonprofit National Safety Council reports that a person
| in the United States is several times more likely to die of
| "sharp objects" than a plane or train crash, though the events
| that preceded the recent emergency Boeing groundings make such
| statistics cold comfort)_
|
| Somewhat OT, but I wonder: Do statistics like this actually take
| the priors into account or are they just comparing the absolute
| counts? Or in other words, could I add my own statistic and
| advertise the safety properties of unicycles for highway travel?
| BrianHenryIE wrote:
| I took Amtrack around the US: Sacramento -> Santa Barbara -> LA
| -> New Orleans -> New York -> Boston -> Syracuse -> Chicago ->
| Sacramento.
|
| I didn't buy the Rail Pass because I wasn't sure before I started
| that I'd enjoy it so much.
|
| What was great was WikiMapia - as the train was rolling through
| the countryside I was able to know what was around me.
|
| http://wikimapia.org/
|
| https://www.amtrak.com/tickets/departure-rail-pass.html
| PopAlongKid wrote:
| Last year I drove my car round trip San Francisco to Chicago,
| this year I'm taking the Amtrak Zephyr instead (fortunately I
| don't need a car at my destination). When I hitched around Europe
| after college I took multiple overnight trips on trains (and
| boats) but this will be the first time I have dedicated sleeping
| accomodations on a moving transport.
|
| While I am looking forward to the trip I think there are some
| minor perils that should be noted (I haven't finished reading the
| linked article yet).
|
| Tracks are shared with freight trains, sometimes there are
| unplanned delays of hours.
|
| Bad weather, fires, or other incidents can also cause delays, a
| half day or more is not unheard of.
|
| Because of Covid, it seems that for now, coach passengers are not
| allowed in the dining car, only those with roomettes (not 100%
| sure about this). I've read blog posts that on some Amtrak trips,
| meals were only served in the roomettes, so the dining car not in
| use (easier to keep clean, I guess?)
|
| Wifi is not available on all trains.
|
| The following discussion forum for Passenger Trains has daily
| commentary on various Amtrak comings and goings, photos etc. The
| first page is free to view, to see more requires a 3-month or
| full year membership (disclaimer: not affiliated with this site).
|
| https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/list.php?4
| CaliforniaKarl wrote:
| > Because of Covid, it seems that for now, coach passengers are
| not allowed in the dining car, only those with roomettes (not
| 100% sure about this). I've read blog posts that on some Amtrak
| trips, meals were only served in the roomettes, so the dining
| car not in use (easier to keep clean, I guess?)
|
| Check out https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/meals-dining/dining-
| car.html to see which services have traditional dining
| available.
|
| I've used Amtrak in California & Ohio, and I don't remember the
| dining car ever being available to passengers traveling in
| Coach class. The closest thing I can think of is this: On the
| Coast Starlight (Los Angeles to Seattle), the Dining Car was
| available to passengers traveling in Business Class.
| nonameiguess wrote:
| I hit rock bottom in 2002. My first wife, who I very stupidly
| married when I was 21, was committed to a psych ward. My landlord
| terminated my lease because of damage she did to the property
| that I had no means of paying for. I was an entertainer at
| Disneyland, of all things, and cuts to the entertainment budget
| meant layoffs in my department. Perfect confluence of shitty
| events, and I was living in my car for a few weeks.
|
| So I definitely did have a reason to cross the US by train.
| Several reason. At least then, it was cheaper than by plane if
| you didn't get a sleeper car, and you could bring more cargo, so
| it made for a decent relocate across the country method. I had a
| friend willing to let me live with her in New Jersey, so Los
| Angeles to Newark in roughly three days.
|
| As others have said, there isn't much you can see from 35,000 ft,
| but you can see quite a bit from a train, including places that
| are nowhere near roads and otherwise not very easy to see.
|
| Weirdest part of the trip for me was getting caught up in one of
| those post-9/11 dragnets and getting questioned by the FBI in
| Albuquerque. I guess they found someone buying a one-way cross-
| country ticket suspicious.
| daniel-cussen wrote:
| That's cool. Good you didn't end up that low again.
|
| Yeah the dragnet...well note beyond questioning you they didn't
| do you any harm. They are allowed false alarms too, mass
| transit attracts terrorism, because of the number of people and
| the speed at which they travel, together with collateral damage
| to the traintrack and congestion, everything. With high-speed
| rail it would be even worse. Trains are very sensitive to
| trainwrecks, always have been. On a mountain pass? It's no
| joke.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| _I hit rock bottom in 2002. My first wife, who I very stupidly
| married when I was 21, was committed to a psych ward. My
| landlord terminated my lease because of damage she did to the
| property that I had no means of paying for._
|
| Sorry you had to go through this: My story had a similar path,
| though I didn't find my way out for some years later. Ex wound
| up in a psych ward numerous times, the first through a suicide
| attempt. It was out and in, and I sometimes wish I hadn't
| stayed so long. Then again, my life is pretty wonderful now and
| who knows if it would have turned out like this if I had left
| earlier.
| dionidium wrote:
| This isn't really my kind of writing, so forgive me if my
| response is somehow impertinent, but there is a very good reason
| to cross the U.S. by train, which is that this is an enormous,
| beautiful continent and the train takes you to otherwise
| untouched parts of it that aren't visible any other way. I took
| the California Zephyr from Denver to San Francisco (technically
| Emeryville) a few years ago and it was one of the best
| experiences of my life. Truly unforgettable.
|
| I hope I get the opportunity to do the Empire Builder and
| Southwest Chief routes at some point!
| javajosh wrote:
| Another good reason is if you find yourself on a no-fly list,
| without trial or recourse.
| euroderf wrote:
| I've driven across the country, twice, and I can recommend that
| too. It's no prob if you have good luck with hitchhikers. I
| took two guys aboard outside Chicago and we rotated driving &
| shotgun & sleeping all the way to L.A. stopping only for food,
| gas, beer, and playing frisbee at the St Louis arch. Coast to
| coast took just about 72 hours.
| fatnoah wrote:
| I've flown across the country many times, but have only done it
| on the train once. I ended up doing a loop going from Boston to
| Washington DC to Chicago to Sacramento to Los Angeles to San
| Antonio to Chicago and finally to Boston.
|
| The whole trip took 10 days, with 7 nights on the train and 3
| off the train. In the roughly 8,800 miles of that trip, it was
| amazing to see so much of the country that I'd only flown over.
| Time also seemed to stand still, as I really lost all sense of
| place and time. It was the most relaxed I've ever been in my
| live.
|
| I agree that if anyone was to do just one overnight train trip
| in the US, they should do Chicago and/or Denver to Emeryville.
| In fact, that was the leg that seemed to have have the most
| tourists, vs. the route across Texas which was more people
| going from point A to B that didn't want to spend 12 hours on a
| bus.
|
| One bonus of the trip was having a glass of wine and some
| cheese with Gene Shalit on the final leg. Apparently he was a
| regular and knew many of the station and train staff by name.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > I agree that if anyone was to do just one overnight train
| trip in the US, they should do Chicago and/or Denver to
| Emeryville.
|
| Also (from experience) you might be able to get your job to
| pay for it if you work in Chicago or Denver and are attending
| an SF area conference. Roomette instead of coach is the way
| to go if possible.
| dionidium wrote:
| > I agree that if anyone was to do just one overnight train
| trip in the US, they should do Chicago and/or Denver to
| Emeryville.
|
| The other routes I've done are Charleston -> Savannah, Fort
| Worth -> Austin, Boston -> Chicago -> St. Louis, Boston ->
| Portland, St. Louis -> KC, and many trips to every stop on
| the Northeast Corridor. They were each interesting in their
| own way, but I just like trains and for a more general
| audience I'd say the Zephyr is really on a totally different
| level.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > I took the California Zephyr from Denver to San Francisco
| (technically Emeryville) a few years ago and it was one of the
| best experiences of my life. Truly unforgettable.
|
| The first time I took the Zephyr and they announced we were
| going over Donner Lake, I thought they were kidding. A place
| were people resorted to eating each other out of isolation, and
| I'm gliding past it slicing a steak with a waiter refreshing my
| water.
|
| I would recommend the Empire Builder, I've never heard so many
| spontaneous collective oohs and aahs on a train after coming
| around a corner or out of a tunnel.
| pengaru wrote:
| Agreed re: Zephyr.
|
| I took it from SAC to CHI last month, even riding coach it was
| a pretty good two days I spent mostly fasted, drinking black
| coffee while programming in the observation car. It's the
| perfect duration for a short fast and that eliminates a bunch
| of the bathroom and food needs, just caffeinated coding with
| great views. And in the end I've gone from CA to IL for ~$150
| with a mountain bike checked to boot.
|
| Something worth noting is the dining car still wasn't available
| to coach travelers on my trip, only sleeper cars could access
| it. Vestiges of the pandemic according to the announcements. It
| felt a bit like skimpflation to me, but they still had the
| little snack bar below the observation deck available to all.
| kediz wrote:
| That is amazing! Hope the view didn't distract your ability
| to focus since it is so gorgeous.
|
| Does the train have WiFi? Or you are just coding offline?
| dionidium wrote:
| The train does have free WiFi, but my experience with it is
| pretty bad. You're also often remote enough that you can't
| use a cellular hotspot, so I wouldn't ever travel on Amtrak
| assuming you'll have a reliable Internet connection the
| whole time.
| db48x wrote:
| The train's wifi is just hooked up to the same cell
| networks anyway. Maybe soon they will have Starlink
| instead.
| kibwen wrote:
| Starlink appears to require the dish to be stationary.
| coder543 wrote:
| It doesn't.[0] Nothing about Starlink inherently requires
| the dish to be stationary. Starlink is being integrated
| into several airlines[1][2] over the next year, and I'm
| certain other airlines are exploring Starlink as an
| option... the existing in-flight internet options are
| terrible, so Starlink could make a real difference there,
| especially over the oceans.
|
| Proper support for moving vehicles probably benefits
| significantly from a dish designed for that, but
| airlines, trains, cruise ships, yachts... there are many
| markets where such a dish would be valuable, so Starlink
| would be pretty dumb _not_ to be designing one that works
| well for that.
|
| Hawaiian Airlines _certainly_ isn 't planning to just
| bolt the existing dish to the outside of the plane and
| hope for the best.
|
| [0]:
| https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1529089543969943553
|
| [1]: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/25/spacex-signs-
| hawaiian-airlin...
|
| [2]: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/21/spacex-first-
| starlink-inflig...
| db48x wrote:
| Current subscribers are only authorized to use their dish
| in one specific area. However, this has more to do with
| capacity planning than anything else. Starlink recently
| announced a slightly more expensive plan that allows the
| user to roam from area to area without contacting
| customer support to reauthorize them for each new
| location. And as someone else pointed out already, the
| are definitely working on providing service to customers
| on boats and planes and other moving vehicles. I doubt
| they will ever make a dish designed to be mounted on the
| roof of a car, but larger multi-passenger vehicles are an
| obvious move.
|
| Incidentally, Starlink dishes showed up on the landing
| barges used by SpaceX some time ago; they use them to
| stream live video of the landings now.
| pengaru wrote:
| Mostly coding offline, but I did have a cellular hotspot
| that managed 4G LTE for most of the trip. I didn't
| investigate the train's WiFi since my needs were covered.
|
| There was one state I didn't seem to have any cell service
| at all, Wyoming maybe? It seemed very similar to driving
| cross-country via i80 in terms of cellular coverage, with a
| few additional dead-zones where only the train goes. But in
| those spots the scenery is so beautiful you won't miss the
| cell network.
| mcv wrote:
| I don't know about US trains, but many European trains
| offer free Wifi. I hope the ones in the US do too.
| smcl wrote:
| That's a pretty incredible price, was it a special offer?
| pengaru wrote:
| Not a special offer, just booked a month in advance before
| the train filled up.
| secabeen wrote:
| That is the lowest bucket for the Zephyr, a fare of 220
| or 270 would be more common:
| https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/long-distance-train-
| coa...
| pengaru wrote:
| It required very little effort to get the ~130 coach rate
| though, the biggest price knob seemed to be booking far
| enough in advance.
|
| What was far more challenging was getting a "trainside
| checked bike" ticket. The Amtrak web site just kept
| saying sold out for the +bike option no matter what I
| tried. But I had no trouble getting the same rate +bike
| when I went to the SAC station IRL and spoke to a
| ticketing agent. Apparently my problem was ending the
| trip at NPV instead of CHI, because NPV can't handle
| checked bikes. The web site is awful WRT +bike tickets.
| Maybe this will prove helpful for anyone reading wanting
| to go ride some distant trails via Amtrak.
| secabeen wrote:
| Yeah, if you're flexible on time, far enough out, and
| willing to ride coach, it's definitely doable. Summer is
| also peak season (more sunlight); avoiding June-August
| helps too.
|
| Amtrak's system is terrible when something you want is
| not available, it usually reports "Sold Out" or "No Train
| Service" when the actual issue is that there is no train
| that day, or no facility for checked luggage, as you
| describe.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, Amtrak is one of those cases where actually calling
| or going into the station is _highly_ worthwhile, as the
| station attendant has more knowledge and options than you
| do on the website.
|
| They're even allowed to book "impossible" tickets if
| you're nice (for example, checking a bike to the last
| station _before_ the one you want that has checked bikes,
| and working with the conductor to move the bike into the
| normal train can be done if the train won 't be that
| busy).
| pengaru wrote:
| > They're even allowed to book "impossible" tickets if
| you're nice (for example, checking a bike to the last
| station before the one you want that has checked bikes,
| and working with the conductor to move the bike into the
| normal train can be done if the train won't be that
| busy).
|
| That's useful information, and re: bikes something a
| conductor alluded to on my ride to CHI, when I asked why
| I couldn't just get off at NPV with my bike which was my
| actual destination. He was perfectly willing to let me
| have my bike stowed somewhere out of the way if I hadn't
| already checked it for unloading @CHI.
| kibwen wrote:
| Note that while the Zephyr between CA and Denver is a
| breathtaking journey, the span from Denver to Chicago is
| nothing but an infinite plane of corn punctuated by a
| crossing of the Mississippi. If you're just in it for
| sightseeing, you can skip half the trip.
| splonk wrote:
| For some of us taking a train across the Mississippi was
| part of the point of the journey, but yes, the scenery is
| considerably better from SF/Emeryville to Denver.
| db48x wrote:
| It's definitely skimpflation (great word, btw). They
| eliminated traditional dining service entirely on several
| other routes. Instead of sitting at a table with other
| passengers having a nice conversation while waiters take
| orders and serve meals, everyone now gathers quietly in the
| dining car waiting for a single waiter to prepare tv-dinners
| and shout out room numbers.
| CaliforniaKarl wrote:
| Per https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/meals-dining/dining-
| car.html, it looks like traditional dining is available
| west of Chicago/San Antonio.
| db48x wrote:
| Yep. I was super disappointed the last time I went cross-
| country. The service was so bad that I haven't bothered
| since then.
| arrrg wrote:
| But why then not pick the car? The US are mind-bogglingly car-
| centric. If you want to explore them, chances are you need a
| car even if you then want to hike, bike or do whatever.
|
| On our road trip from Miami to Seattle (via New Orleans, Los
| Angeles) the only National Park that wasn't offensively car
| centric was Carlsbad Caverns, even though they did want to blow
| a hole in the mountain in the 1930s to change that. (Maybe
| Shark Valley in the Everglades, too. Though in both cases you
| need a car to get to the entrance.)
|
| I get the remote wilderness (no matter how touristically
| attractive) needs cars. It's just that if you take the train
| you can't really get there. Unless you get out and rent a car
| all the time.
|
| I certainly didn't enjoy any of the cities. They were all car-
| oppressed hellholes that aren't much fun to be in.
| Arainach wrote:
| Road trips are long and require focus.
|
| I've done plenty of long US road trips: Chicago to Seattle,
| Chicago to to East Coast, Michigan to Florida, Seattle to
| southern California, a loop of the southwest starting and
| ending in Vegas, etc.
|
| I've done road trips throughout my life (Seattle to Socal was
| less than a year ago) and do smaller (~3hr 1 way) ones on a
| regular basis (Seattle to Portland or Vancouver). I've also
| taken trains in the US and in other countries and it's a
| different experience.
|
| Having to focus on the road for more than an hour at a time
| wears you down. If you have a car full of people such that
| you can rotate drivers, it's bearable but that just means
| sharing the load. In comparison, in a train I can simply
| relax and enjoy the sights and the trip. If there's a
| beautiful mountain I can focus on it without worrying about a
| car or animal in front of me. If I want to eat or drink or
| use the restroom I do without having to wait miles to find
| somewhere to pull over. If I want to read or use my laptop or
| have a beverage (even alcohol if I want), it's fine.
|
| I've driven Seattle to Portland dozens of times. I've also
| taken the train several times. When I drive, I arrive in PDX
| tired. When I get off the train I am invigorated and ready to
| start my day (even though when I've done it I usually had to
| get up at 4 to catch a 5:30AM train, times which usually
| don't exist for me and should seemingly leave me tired)
|
| As far as exploring cities: while infrastructure in the US is
| bad, there is a strong correlation between cities worth
| exploring and some form of bus/bike/scooter rental. Train
| stations are also usually centrally located. If I want to
| explore I go walking and there's plenty to do within a few
| miles of the station. If it's further out I grab a bus. If
| I'm there for multiple days AND there are far-out things I
| want to do I could rent a car but it's almost never been
| necessary. Amusingly the only time I did a combination train-
| car trip was in Germany, where I wanted a vehicle to bounce
| between small towns the train didn't hit (but took the
| express train back from Berlin to Munich). In America it
| hasn't come up because the kinds of towns that don't have
| public transit are overwhelmingly either so small you can
| walk anywhere or so generic and boring that I don't get off
| the train except to stretch my legs.
|
| Yes, I'm sure that folks can find counterexamples. I'll poke
| a hole in my experiment with East Lansing, MI: A fairly
| standard college town with a beautiful walkable
| campus.....and an Amtrak station in the middle of an
| industrial park a fair walk from anything good. Even then,
| though, it's a 1.5 mile walk to the middle of campus or 2
| miles to the bar district, so it's still not the end of the
| world.
| trelane wrote:
| Heck, I already hate having to stare at the car in front of
| me for the 45 minutes or so it uses to take me to drive
| home in my US town. At least there's a bus that works well
| enough, so now I spend most of my commute reading a book
| out commenting here.
|
| Driving works, but I'd much rather take a train. Too bad
| they are generally terrible here. I've been to Europe; it
| can work!
| lesdeuxmagots wrote:
| The train ride is less of an exploration, more a viewport
| into, a meditation on what is happening outside the window.
|
| I've done the road trip - a slow meandering journey spanning
| tens of thousands of miles across the United States and
| Canada across many months. It's wonderful, but it's also
| fully engaged while being very hard on the body to drive so
| much. The engagement is obviously the point, but it's a
| particular way of travel.
|
| I've also done the Zephyr in both directions, lakeshore
| limited, etc. on sleeper trains. It's very relaxing, but you
| also don't get to actually interact much with what is going
| on outside. But that's not such a bad thing at times.
| Sometimes it's exactly what you're looking for.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| New Orleans is car-oppressed?
| ghaff wrote:
| Parent was talking about national parks along the route.
| And, yes, although a few have shuttle buses--which may even
| be required--most require a car to do a lot more than take
| in a scenic overlook. Indeed, even in more compact parks
| (e.g. Crater Lake) just getting to a central jumping off
| point will be hard without a car.
|
| (New Orleans itself is pretty explorable without a car.)
| anonAndOn wrote:
| The train often does not parallel the highway. There are some
| remote parts of the country, particularly through the
| mountains, that can only been seen by rail. And because we
| have nothing comparable to a TGV or Shinkansen, you get to
| relax and see everything at a leisurely 40-60/mph, "rocking
| to the rhythm of the rails"[0].
|
| [0]https://youtu.be/fF1lqEQFVUo
| dionidium wrote:
| I have also driven from St. Louis to San Francisco and back.
| It's just a very different experience. They aren't really the
| same thing.
| thatfrenchguy wrote:
| Yup, Amtrak from Chicago to Emeryville is probably one of the
| most impressive routes one can take, and I feel sad for folks
| who will never get to experience it.
| duxup wrote:
| Reminds me a little of the experience described in song
| "America" by Simon & Garfunkel. Although I think they're on the
| bus, but much the same experience.
| uxp100 wrote:
| The first time I saw a bald eagle was from the observation car
| of the empire builder along the Mississippi south of the twin
| cities! I hope you get the opportunity as well.
|
| OTOH I used the empire builder purely for utility for a time,
| and the price wasn't bad to go about 70 miles, but several
| times about 10 years ago it was 16, that's right 16, hours late
| for an hourish journey.
| hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
| I took the Southwest Chief from Chicago to Los Angeles a few
| years ago. I went coach and it was about the same price as an
| airline ticket, maybe $10-$20 less. The Southwest Chief was nice,
| but the train to Chicago was noisy and dirty.
|
| The sleeper car would have been about triple what we paid for the
| two coach tickets. It wasn't bad sleeping in the coach seats,
| though I am sure the sleeper car would have been fun. We bought
| our own food and ate on the train. We took a 2 day stop to visit
| Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon before continuing on to LA.
|
| It's worth doing. I enjoyed the ride and got paid for it too
| because I was able to work while aboard the train.
| em-bee wrote:
| i made a similar trip from chicago to san francisco.
|
| also in coach. during the day i walked down to the lounge car
| with the extra large windows. that way my coach seat felt like
| a semi-comfortable place to sleep, and not a place where i
| would be stuck for three days.
|
| it was a wonderful trip. my only regret was that the train was
| moving at night and i missed seeing half of the scenery while i
| was sleeping.
| stereoabuse wrote:
| The Audm app has a fantastic narration of this that I've returned
| to a couple times in the past years for a laugh.
|
| >Even on short plane trips, every passenger is offered the
| kindergartner's communion of juice and cookies, as if a majority
| of adults are incapable of going 90 minutes without such
| provisions. On trains, passengers are treated as individuals even
| more powerful than adults: independent teenagers who just want to
| smoke. Amtrak knows you want to smoke. Amtrak knows you love to
| smoke. But while you're living under Amtrak's roof, you have to
| follow the rules, of which there is only one, and that is: Don't
| smoke inside.
|
| The author Caity Weaver also wrote a fun autoethnography on
| #VanLife[0].
|
| [0] https://archive.ph/1OKC6
| darkarmani wrote:
| > Train people are content to stare out the window for hours,
| like indoor cats.
| zagrebian wrote:
| How fast could you go from coast to coast in one of those high-
| speed trains that exist in other countries? 10 hours maybe?
| colechristensen wrote:
| 15 hours if the train didn't stop, considerably more if the
| practicalities of an actual rail system were in play.
|
| Japanese high speed rail has a top speed of 200 mph but not all
| lines, coast to coast is 3000 miles in the US depending on
| where you want to start and stop.
| robin_reala wrote:
| If you take exist to be "exists as a prototype" or "exists, but
| only serving a short route" then you could cover ~3000 miles in
| 11.5 hours without stopping using the Shanghai Transrapid,[1]
| or 10 hours using the latest Transrapid[2] or L0 Series
| shinkansen.[3]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_maglev_train
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transrapid
|
| [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L0_Series
| mastax wrote:
| The fastest train currently in long-distance service is the
| Fuxing Hao CR400AF/BF which is currently in service at 350 km/h
| (220 mph). San Diego to Jacksonville is 3350km (2100mi)
| straight line. That gives a lower bound of 9.5 hours. Of course
| the actual path couldn't be a straight line, and the train
| would need to accelerate and decelerate several times for
| intermediate stops.
| PopAlongKid wrote:
| https://archive.ph/hFVSY
| throwaway892238 wrote:
| I did the Zephyr from Denver to Sacramento during the pandemic.
| Wearing a mask for 40 hours is no easy feat, so of course the
| passengers respected the mask mandate less and less as time went
| by. Even so, I would do the Denver-SLC Westbound portion again in
| a heartbeat. The entire time you travel through mountains,
| canyons and plains where no automobiles can go. When I went, the
| observation car had excess seating capacity for the entire trip.
| If I was from a foreign country, experiencing this would be on my
| bucket list.
| stretchwithme wrote:
| I did it in November, 1993. From Albany thru Chicago. Then to LA
| and up to San Jose.
|
| It was great. Fantastic scenery. Private room once I got to
| Chicago. Met a lot of great people, because you share tables in
| the dining car.
|
| Even had a friend visit met at the station in Albuquerque.
|
| I was moving and they let me bring 60 pounds of stuff.
| pengaru wrote:
| If you've never ridden the Zephyr cross-country, I can't think of
| another time I've felt so deeply frustrated that USA hasn't
| developed a high-speed rail network connecting all its major
| cities.
|
| If you're on the fence about trains vs. planes and have never
| done it, give it a try and imagine what it'd be like to be
| traveling ~200MPH while in the observation car. Still enjoying
| the decadent landscape views, drinking your beverage of choice,
| emitting _far_ less carbon than flying, while still traveling
| quickly, without most of the obnoxious TSA theatrics.
| pessimizer wrote:
| > without most of the obnoxious TSA theatrics.
|
| This is theater that easily could have been applied to trains.
| And the TSA really fought to be on them, but the CEO at the
| time was really stubborn. They were able to get away with the
| same attitude since[0], but government pressure was high[1],
| and the new guy seems to be ideal for the internal security
| force hammer to come down[2].
|
| -----
|
| [0] _" TSA Administrator: No need for airport-like security for
| rail travel"_ https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/01/tsa-
| administrator-no-need-fo...
|
| [1] _" Lawmakers push TSA to strengthen Amtrak passenger
| security"_
| https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/288502-house-lawma...
|
| [2] _" Former CSX executive becomes new Amtrak CEO"_
| https://wtop.com/business-finance/2020/03/amtrak-names-forme...
|
| _" Amtrak CEO asks Congress to expand TSA's 'No Fly List' to
| rail passengers"_
| https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/amtrak-ceo...
| pengaru wrote:
| There will _always_ be a difference since you can 't fly
| trains into the World Trade Center. Planes are basically
| missiles.
| ashtonbaker wrote:
| We did a round trip, Paris-Nice-Paris one summer. The trip to
| Nice was overnight on a sleeper car, and the way back we had
| first-class TGV tickets. I loved the sleeper car very much, but
| watching the French countryside fly by at 200mph was a vision
| of a civilized future that my American mind could scarcely
| comprehend.
| bergenty wrote:
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| idontpost wrote:
| > without most of the obnoxious TSA theatrics
|
| That's just naive. If train travel ever becomes common again,
| the TSA WILL get their grubby little fingers into it.
| ghaff wrote:
| And the fact is that if you travel regularly and have TSA
| Pre, I do still get to the airport early but I pretty much
| breeze through security the vast bulk of the time. No shoes
| off, laptops out, etc. It's rarely a headache.
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| I think TSA is mostly useless, but people really overblow
| how much of a pain it is to go through security for
| _domestic_ flights. It 's never taken me more than 45
| minutes to go from dropoff to gate for a domestic flight,
| and most are closer to the 20 minute range (mostly just
| walking to the gate itself).
|
| All of that not even being TSA-Pre.
| jrnichols wrote:
| > "a six-hour $129 nonstop flight"
|
| How you know this article is definitely a few years old. :)
|
| Now that the mask mandate has finally gone away, taking cross
| country trip on Amtrak is something that is on our 2022 plans.
| Surprisingly, most of the trains we've looked at have been at
| capacity or near it. Not sure if they're running shorter trains
| or if Amtrak has grown in popularity. Hopefully we'll be able to
| do it this year!
| karaterobot wrote:
| Before becoming a hagiography of Rick Steves (who deserves it,
| surely) the first part of this essay read like a parody of a New
| York Times writer who just discovered there exists a world
| between the coasts, and that people live different kinds of lives
| than they do.
| bombcar wrote:
| The long-distance Amtraks are more like a rolling hotel or land
| cruise-ship in some ways. Highly recommended if you have the time
| - https://www.amtraktrains.com is worth the research, as Amtrak's
| ticketing system is _literally_ a 70s airline ticketing system
| and if you learn how to play it you can get sleeper car
| reservations for relatively cheap.
|
| You can also find destinations that would otherwise be moderately
| difficult to reach - for example the Empire Builder stops at
| _East Glacier_ in Montana from spring to fall - extremely small
| town with wonderful hiking, etc.
|
| Here's a song about a similar route in Canada:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXcfRlEGJko
|
| https://www.viarail.ca/en/explore-our-destinations/trains/ro...
|
| You can also have a quite interesting "explore America" trip in
| both countries with some planning (a travel agent can actually
| help here if they're knowledgeable) - as you can break the trip
| up into "daytime travel", stay in a city like Chicago for a few
| days, and then "overnight" to the next city.
| kasey_junk wrote:
| The Empire Builder actually has a park ranger get on the train
| and do nature lessons/wildlife sightings from a viewing car.
| It's pretty great.
| brightball wrote:
| Is it true that Amtrak will ship your car for you? I thought
| about doing a cross country trip and the idea of having my car
| with me on the other side seemed like a solid plan.
| dayvid wrote:
| I've done it. It was pleasant. It felt like a throwback,
| because they had a dinner service where you dined with three
| other guests (or two if you're with someone). If you have the
| opportunity, I'd recommend it.
| db48x wrote:
| There is a car train, but it runs along the eastern seaboard.
| Useful if you live in New York and want to visit/move to
| Florida for the winter.
| dwater wrote:
| To clarify, there is only one route in the US that has an
| auto train. It goes from Lorton, VA (about 30 minutes south
| of DC on I95) to Sanford, FL (a suburb of Orlando), and in
| the other direction. It has sleeper berths or regular coach
| class seats, leaves at 4pm and arrives at 9 am, and is
| generally full of "snowbird" retirees and families going to
| Disney.
| pimlottc wrote:
| I used to work for a shipping company, they did a lot of
| business shipping cars back and forth to Florida for
| baseball players doing spring training.
| dvtrn wrote:
| I've heard similar stories from a friend working at a
| major freight logistics broker here in Midwest, he also
| arranges the moving of parts for the pair of Boeing jets
| belongs to the New England Patriots NFL franchise.
|
| It's not something that sits at the front of your mind,
| but it makes total sense: logistics for professional
| sports teams must be a whole industry all on its own.
| Qworg wrote:
| When I worked for the Chicago Bears, I had the pleasure
| of driving the smallest of the moving trucks to training
| camps. A max length box truck. Followed by 3 semis _just
| of equipment_ - clothing, gear, weights that the college
| didn't have.
|
| It is a circus production every year.
| brightball wrote:
| Bummer. Seemed like a great option to travel coast to
| coast if it was available.
| bombcar wrote:
| You could arrange to have your car shipped separately,
| but the costs associated would be large enough that I'd
| just rent (unless you were moving).
| throwaway892238 wrote:
| The fares for this route have historically been dirt
| cheap, something like $95 one way was common. Adding your
| car was like $250. I moved from Florida to DC this way
| with all my possessions crammed into my car. It was
| pretty fun when they still had a dining car, had some
| great conversations with other passengers.
| shagie wrote:
| > for example the Empire Builder stops at East Glacier in
| Montana from spring to fall - extremely small town with
| wonderful hiking, etc.
|
| The southern border of Glacier NP is the railroad.
|
| https://www.nps.gov/glac/learn/education/railway.htm
|
| So, in 1891, the continental divide finally was crossed and the
| rail barrons were trying to get people to use the railroad.
| They saw people taking steamships out from NYC to Europe to go
| see the Alps, and, well, they knew a thing or two about
| mountains, now too.
|
| So the Great Northern Railroad petitioned Congress to make a
| park in the area that the trains would service.
|
| In addition to the park proper, a number Swiss style chalets
| were built through the park that were approximately 1 day horse
| ride apart from each other. With this setup, you could take the
| train to East Glacier or West Glacier, go hose back riding
| through the mountains, and then get back on the train on the
| other side and go home.
|
| While many of these chalets have been lost to time, some still
| exist and are maintained - https://www.nplas.org/sperry.html
| https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/2018-06-06/funding-secured...
| Fiahil wrote:
| > While many of these chalets have been lost to time
|
| How can you loose something, less than 200 years old, to time
| ?!
| irrational wrote:
| My family has property in western Montana. There are cabins
| there that were built in the 1920s that are almost
| completely disintegrated. And that is just 100 years. This
| is an area that typically gets an enormous amount of snow
| in the winter (like 6-7 meters deep) that will completely
| crush a building if someone is not maintaining it all
| winter.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| I think if something is from a recent as 1920 it's just
| been poorly maintained, not 'lost to time'.
| SkittyDog wrote:
| This is a ridiculous distinction. Both examples are
| highly idiomatic language, with no fixed definition
| that's even remotely close to what you claim. The
| original statement was perfectly understandable, and it's
| obnoxious behavior for you to try to pass your preference
| off as a "correction".
| irrational wrote:
| Well, there is no reason to maintain most of these
| structures. They were mining cabins, but the gold mines
| were closed up long ago. The "time" when these structures
| were needed has passed, so they are not maintained and
| are rapidly returning to nature. Soon all that will be
| left to mark them will be some square iron nails.
| bombcar wrote:
| It's incredibly easy for an all-wood structure built in
| 1920 to be completely gone in a hundred years, especially
| in a harsh climate.
|
| Sure there may be wreckage of it, but it's lost to time.
| pessimizer wrote:
| I don't understand the distinction. If anything is now
| gone and wasn't destroyed in an unpreventable disaster or
| purposefully, it was "poorly maintained." Doesn't matter
| if it is 100 years old or 10,000 years old.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| ...because if it's only a 100 years old then there's
| hardly any time involved, so not lost to time, just lost.
|
| If you bought an ice cream and drop it it's not 'lost to
| time' because you can grab another any time. If you drop
| a Ming vase then you can't replace that.
| bombcar wrote:
| Weather does wonders on buildings - see the list of
| Missions in Baja California - many are just barely a
| foundation, some are absolutely nothing at all left.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_missions_in_Baja_Cali
| f...
|
| And that's even without major winter snow storms. I'm sure
| you could find ruins of the chalets (many of which might
| have been very rustic by our standards), but not much more.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| Weather in the area isn't a walk in the park, and I would
| assume the cabins are wood.
| Fiahil wrote:
| So does 'original' swiss chalets, yet, many of them are
| much older than that.
| shagie wrote:
| Many of those weren't abandoned for half a decade in the
| 40s.
| shagie wrote:
| Three years of no maintenance in the 40s.
|
| > The hotels and chalets were closed for three seasons
| during World War II. The hotels recovered from the lack of
| use and upkeep, but most of the chalets suffered
| irreparable damage. The only two remaining chalets, Sperry
| and Granite Park, continued to operate, offering overnight
| accommodations.
|
| As to the weather... I'm going to point out that we're in
| June now and https://www.nps.gov/applications/glac/roadstat
| us/roadstatus.... is the current road status.
|
| > Spring plowing has begun. On the west side, the
| hiker/biker closure is at Logan Creek comfort station,
| approximately 3 miles past the vehicle closure when road
| crew is working and at The Loop when the road crew is not
| working.
|
| Last year, the road was plowed and opened June 27th.
| https://www.ktvq.com/glacier-national-parks-iconic-road-
| now-...
|
| Here's video of them plowing it from '08:
| https://youtu.be/M-9l1PojA6Q
|
| Buildings in the area need constant maintenance.
|
| https://www.nplas.org/goingtothesun.html
|
| > Going-to-the-Sun Chalets stock had dropped considerably
| among Great Northern executives by the start of World War
| II. The structures had taken a beating from 30 years of
| harsh Montana winters. They required endless maintenance
| and repairs, and weren't considered even remotely historic
| or significant at the time. Unfortunately the designs were
| viewed as tired and obsolete in 1940. It was comparable to
| the way we would view an aging motel built during the
| 1970s: Very few people would clamor for preservation.
|
| > As troublesome as the chalet complex was in the early
| 1940s, there were still a few in management who pointed to
| growth and profit in the recent past, but all that did was
| stave off demolition for a couple years. The Going-to-the-
| Sun Chalets stood empty after the war, and were ultimately
| razed in 1948. Sun Point has been returned to a (sort of)
| natural state; it takes an archaeologist's eye to recognize
| the traces of the Chalets.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, some of the most scenic landscape can be found crossing
| the Rockies.
| secabeen wrote:
| > you could take the train to East Glacier or West Glacier
|
| Be careful with this idea; East Glacier train station is not
| actually in the park, and services at that station are
| limited (West Glacier even more so). It's possible to rent a
| car at East Glacier, but I expect it would be expensive. You
| can walk from the train station to a hotel, then be based out
| of there, but you will be dependent on the shuttle and bus
| services to explore the park. Some good details about the
| current situation in this thread; note that services have
| changed a lot around COVID, and any information from pre-2019
| should be considered as out of date, and not reliable:
|
| https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/need-advice-for-
| short-e...
| bombcar wrote:
| If you like hiking, you can technically hike from town into
| the park - I've done it even with snow still on the ground.
|
| But depending on what you want to do in the area, you will
| want to plan ahead.
| j7ake wrote:
| How do you take a cross country train and stop at Montana to
| do hiking ? Won't your train and all your stuff on the train
| have left by the time you finished your hike ?
|
| I imagine the train only stops for half an hour or so for
| long breaks...
| tantalor wrote:
| 1. Disembark with your stuff
|
| 2. Hike (leave extra stuff in storage)
|
| 3. Take the next train
| shagie wrote:
| This is a "I've thought about this"...
|
| Take the Empire Builder to Essex.
| https://www.amtrak.com/stations/esm.html
|
| At Essex (7:41 pm), disembark, get a room at the Izaak
| Walton Inn - https://www.google.com/maps/@48.2787345,-113.6
| 113756,3a,75y,...
|
| Spend the following day hiking ( https://www.google.com/map
| s/dir/48.2784604,-113.6118791/48.3... )
|
| Return to the town, have dinner, get on the train (at 7:41
| pm) and continue on.
|
| This becomes much easier with a rail pass:
| https://media.amtrak.com/2022/03/for-a-limited-time-
| amtrak-o... / https://www.amtrak.com/USARailPass
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > Won't your train and all your stuff on the train
|
| ...well you take your luggage off the train. Is that really
| what you were asking?
| gumby wrote:
| No different from flying: you disembark and then catch a
| later train, likely a few days later.
| Melatonic wrote:
| Realistically how hard is it to just wing it? Like say I book
| one long trek to start - can I just wing it as I go along or is
| it a much better idea to plan the whole thing out train by
| train beforehand?
| bombcar wrote:
| Depends on what you're willing to do - the worst case
| scenario may be getting stuck in a tiny town in the middle of
| nowhere for a day or two waiting for the next train.
|
| But they do have the rail pass:
| https://www.amtrak.com/tickets/departure-rail-pass.html $500
| for ten segments over a month, isn't bad.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| I've only ridden when that$500 was discounted to $300.
| Amazing for the price.
| the_only_law wrote:
| What is the general quaillotynofbthe cars and passengers.
|
| I've thought about taking it a few times, just to go somewhere
| random, but for some reason, my mind always wonders to bad
| experiences greyhound busses. I'm also in the south, so it's
| rare I find an interesting looking route/destination that's
| much cheaper than just flying.
| ghaff wrote:
| Unless it's a short hop (and often even then), even modestly
| long Amtrak routes will often cost more than flying--and even
| more if you book a sleeping compartment. There are only a few
| long distance routes I'd consider--all out West. And I'd
| pretty much only take them on the western part of their
| routes.
| _delirium wrote:
| I only really have experience in the eastern half of the
| U.S., but on some routes I've found Amtrak significantly
| cheaper (in coach) than flying, so I consider it if I'm not
| in a hurry and it's a day train under ~8 hours (not sure if
| that qualifies as "modestly long"!). The price difference
| is especially large in Amtrak's favor if you're doing a
| one-way trip, or to/from smaller cities that don't have
| much airline competition.
|
| For example, to pick Richmond, VA as a city I know about.
| Amtrak's Richmond to NYC service is about 6 hours 15 mins,
| and as low as $32 each way if you buy in advance. Flying is
| only around 1.5 hours but typically $150 one-way or $200
| round-trip. Going the other way, Richmond to Charleston, SC
| is typically $68 one-way and 7 hours, 15 mins, versus about
| 3.5 hours and $200 to fly one-way.
| bombcar wrote:
| I have had zero bad passenger interactions on any long-
| distance train I've ever been on; part of that may be the
| cost keeps out the riff-raff, but there's a certain group
| that travels by train and everyone gets along quite well in
| my experience.
| THJr wrote:
| I'm not too familiar with airline ticketing systems, if you
| don't mind could you clarify what you mean by your 70's
| ticketing system comment?
| bombcar wrote:
| The 70s ticketing system ran off of "buckets" where
| availability of fares at various prices wouldn't appear until
| previous buckets were emptied, or time ran out. I don't
| remember the details (my only sleeper car trip was paid with
| Amtrak miles) but if you studied it and worked it you could
| predict when new buckets would become available, or when a
| bucket was about to "expire" and the price might drop. If I
| remember right there was a sweet spot about six months
| before, and another very shortly before (and if you wanted to
| be risky, and knew the line, you could get a coach ticket and
| ask the conductor to pay to upgrade on the train - that is
| the cheapest of _all_ if there is space available as it
| basically ends up being the cost of the meals).
|
| It's also a bit weird in that if you know some of the
| limitations, you can do things like get a sleeper for
| overnight _only_ (from the stop around 5PM to the stop around
| 8 AM say) and then get a coach ticket from then on - which if
| scheduled right would end up being the sleeper for the whole
| trip as there 's no point in resetting the room.
|
| You could also book "insane trips" that the system wouldn't
| let you do but were perfectly doable, because it wouldn't
| correctly recognize that you could make the layover, etc.
| People would also try to trick it into letting you book trips
| that wouldn't make sense unless you're trying to ride the
| train for as long as you can (sleeper car mile purchases were
| "zoned" in the past - so anything in "Zone 1" would be a
| fixed amount of miles). They've since changed that to the
| more standard "miles are just pennies against a normal fair"
| type of reward.
| secabeen wrote:
| This is much less doable now than it was some years ago.
| Amtrak's revenue management has gotten a lot better, and
| most long distance routes start at the highest bucket
| pricing, and only drop down into lower buckets if demand
| sags. Demand is also higher than it was pre-COVID, and I
| don't think you can predict when buckets will expire.
|
| > It's also a bit weird in that if you know some of the
| limitations, you can do things like get a sleeper for
| overnight only (from the stop around 5PM to the stop around
| 8 AM say) and then get a coach ticket from then on - which
| if scheduled right would end up being the sleeper for the
| whole trip as there's no point in resetting the room.
|
| This is also risky, as it depends on the largess of the
| conductor, who is totally within their rights to kick you
| out of the sleeper and down into coach at the appropriate
| time. You also would not get the included meals during your
| coach segment, and would have to pay for them in the cafe
| car.
|
| > if you wanted to be risky, and knew the line, you could
| get a coach ticket and ask the conductor to pay to upgrade
| on the train - that is the cheapest of all if there is
| space available as it basically ends up being the cost of
| the meals
|
| Amtrak has also introduced a pre-train bidding system for
| empty sleeper car upgrades, so its very rare for a popular
| train to have empty sleeper car berths that can be
| purchased from the conductor.
|
| > You could also book "insane trips" that the system
| wouldn't let you do but were perfectly doable, because it
| wouldn't correctly recognize that you could make the
| layover, etc.
|
| Making any Amtrak trip dependent on tight layovers is a
| mistake, in my opinion; multi-hour train delays are
| somewhat common, and unless you are booked on a single
| ticket, Amtrak will not hold a train for you, nor will they
| reschedule you on a future train if you miss your
| "connection" between two separately ticketed trains due to
| their delay. My advice has always been to put an hotel
| overnight between any connection involving two unrelated
| trains; it makes your whole trip a lot less stressful.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, the usual "layover it won't let you book as a
| single segment" that I would look at were the ones where
| the system deemed it _too long_ and wanted to count it as
| two separate trips.
| jobu wrote:
| > _you can break the trip up into "daytime travel", stay in a
| city like Chicago for a few days, and then "overnight" to the
| next city_
|
| My limited experience with Amtrak in the West or Midwest is
| that it's impossible to reliably plan like this. Amtrak is
| renting access to rails owned by freight carriers and
| constantly gets delayed or blocked by freight trains with
| higher priority.
|
| Their "schedule" is an absolute best-case scenario that never
| actually happens. The trains usually arrive somewhere between
| 2-8 hours after the scheduled time, and occasionally it just
| doesn't show until the next day. They have an app that's
| supposed to give the "accurate" arrival time is often wildly
| off as well.
| secabeen wrote:
| Chicago is the exception here, though. It's the core hub of
| the entire system, and there are no trains that pass through
| Chicago. A Chicago train will nearly always leave on-time,
| unless there are equipment issues.
| parkingrift wrote:
| Similarly in the eastern corridor or at least all the major
| cities between Boston and Richmond, VA.
|
| Air travel has become such a nightmare that I'd rather take
| a 7 hour train ride than a 1-2 hour flight.
| cgriswald wrote:
| I enjoy Amtrak even for short distances.
|
| In my younger days I traveled a fair amount across the midwest.
| Greyhound would get me there pretty cheaply and fairly
| comfortably; but it was boring and many of the bus stations
| were sketchy (although fellow passengers were always great). My
| preference was strongly for Amtrak, though. More room, the
| ability to walk around, order food and drinks, and also to see
| parts of the country that aren't immediately off the
| interstate. Compared to flying, the travel time is longer (but
| you gain some of that back by not having to hang out at an
| airport for so long), but it's a lot less hassle, there's more
| room, and it's just ... relaxing.
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