[HN Gopher] Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager
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Firefly III: A free and open-source finance manager
Author : yessirwhatever
Score : 100 points
Date : 2022-05-30 17:48 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.firefly-iii.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.firefly-iii.org)
| erulabs wrote:
| Firefly III is excellent - there was a lot of excitement for
| Actual budget the other week (which is also excellent) but
| firefly has been a solid self hosted finance tool for years.
|
| We have a one click installer for kubernetes over at
| https://kubesail.com/template/erulabs/firefly-iii if anyone is
| interested in self hosting this!
| yessirwhatever wrote:
| I found out about Firefly III a couple of weeks ago and wanted
| to try, but it seemed a bit more than what I needed. That's
| when I found out about Actual, which does seem to be an
| interesting solution. My issue with it is that they seem to
| have made the web version (intentionally?) not compatible with
| mobile, and their iPhone app requires a subscription of ~$10 a
| month. At first I thought I'd give it a try then felt sort of
| cheated. I don't mind paying for a solution but this seems like
| a shady way to charge money for me. Also I'm not a fan of
| subscription.
|
| Anyway, I gave Firefly III a try and now I'm very happy that I
| did. I think those extra features that seemed too complicated
| at first are proving to be pretty useful.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Are there FOSS libraries that handle common financial
| functionality and do it reliably? Are these FOSS applications all
| reinventing the wheel?
| kkfx wrote:
| Honestly seems a bit confusing to me...
|
| The dashboard is a bit configurable, ok, so I can cut things I do
| not want but a default with just balance/all translations
| scrollable, the latest visible/stock option with mean price paid
| and actual value, optional widgets for other financial means (raw
| materials and their value, currencies etc) would be far nicer
| than a big load of graphs...
|
| Ease to add transactions is not much a thing since at least
| personally all must come from external sources like bank exports
| in ofx/qif/ _sv etc with manually just tagging, description etc
| and a merging feature for upcoming transactions when the date is
| due to merge them with the actual new entry from the bank, so
| better import /export (i.e. woob integration for banks who do not
| offer exporting) would be very nice.
|
| Generally graphs are nice but data in tabular form + operations
| on such tables are much more useful, especially if can be done
| with a programming language like "hey, that's the table, now you
| can generate new ones with some query language and lisp/python/_
| as you wish, just add a "programmed entry" and you get input in
| _sv form for code, SQL-alike for query DSL, output view as a
| table for_ sv data or graph or raw at your option.
|
| Surely the last paragraph might not appeal end users, but a user
| who self-host likely use/can use/dream such features...
| anthropodie wrote:
| Another finance manager recently open sourced
| https://actualbudget.com/
| xthrowawayxx wrote:
| This is great! I've been using Firefly III for years. However it
| consumes a good chunk of time to keep up to date at a line item
| resolution with many cards and accounts across countries as I've
| not automated any of it.
| jendnd wrote:
| This project is great, but damn it slows down with just a few
| years worth of data. :(
| xupybd wrote:
| Very impressive tool.
|
| I've always used the approach of allocating spending before it's
| spent. I've not attempted expense tracking. Has anyone got
| experience with it, and an opinion to share?
| toyg wrote:
| Looks good but the real problem, as for 90% of similar programs,
| is the volume of necessary data-entry. Paid-for options like
| YNAB, nowadays, can fetch transactions from many mainstream US/EU
| banks and credit providers. Without that sort of feature, it's a
| real drudge to keep up entering every single expense.
| BeetleB wrote:
| Not sure about Firefly, but I use KMyMoney. Is there a bank/CC
| where you can import via YNAB and _not_ via KMyMoney and
| similar software?
| emiller88 wrote:
| Agreed. I've found https://lunchmoney.app/ really nice.
| wolverine876 wrote:
| As of several years ago, banks would provide csv files of
| transactions to customers. That's still more work than the paid
| options, but much less than individual transactions.
|
| I suppose something like Firefly could create a module (or even
| sell one) that is preconfigured, and updated, with the best
| method for each bank - download csv, api, scrape, etc. In fact,
| they could charge for that service and fund development.
| scotttopic wrote:
| I look at this from the opposite perspective. Seven years of
| YNAB4 trained me to include manual entry of every transaction,
| assigning categories, splitting it as necessary, etc right
| there at the moment I make the purchase. It's baked into my
| process, as that was one of the core components that the old
| YNAB taught. At this point I could never trust an automated
| system for everyday purchases, where it couldn't accurately
| know how to split transactions, or where to assign things
| (although scheduled bills I do input as recurring transactions
| so to an extent I do have some automation).
|
| For example, take a trip to Walmart where you purchased things
| that cross like 3 or 4 categories. With a system relying on
| importing data from your bank, a couple days after the
| transaction posts you'll have this generic assignment to
| Walmart, and you must then try and remember how to split it (eg
| between Groceries, Clothes, Technology etc). Instead, I have my
| transaction manually sorted in my YNAB app before I've even
| left the store.
| rmesters wrote:
| Here's two free solutions you can use for bank data sync
| (Nordigen & Saltedge): https://docs.firefly-iii.org/data-
| importer/install/nordigen-...
| ywain wrote:
| Unfortunately neither of these work in the US. Salt Edge
| supposedly supports US banks but when I reached out to them a
| few weeks ago (specifically for the purpose of using them
| with Firefly III) this was their reply:
|
| > We regret to inform you that temporarily Salt Edge does not
| provide its services on the USA market.
| _zoltan_ wrote:
| now you know how I feel when I want to use some US bases
| service.
|
| in theory interactive brokers could link in my accounts but
| since I'm based in Switzerland this doesn't work. Sad. :)
| Buttons840 wrote:
| Most of these work be giving the application your bank
| credentials, right? This probably violates the terms and
| conditions of your bank and gives the application unrestricted
| access to your account.
| PandawanFr wrote:
| Afaik most use something like Plaid which works with the
| banks to get this data appropriately.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| Plaid does the opposite. It scrapes using your banks
| credentials.
| smeej wrote:
| Am I totally misremembering this, or is it a fairly
| recent change?
|
| I could've sworn several years ago it was perfectly
| possible to use your sign-in credentials, then
| immediately change them, because it basically needed an
| authorization token, but then worked fine.
|
| Now it doesn't. I work for a company with a Plaid
| integration and if the bank so much as requires any kind
| of 2FA, you just can't use it at all anymore.
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| I'm not sure. It is possible that some banks have an API
| that Plaid uses, but this issue has been known for
| several years and discussed on here quite a bit. Plaid
| even had a large settlement due to privacy violations.
| rmesters wrote:
| Depends. There's a bunch of providers (eg Yodlee) that ask
| for bank credentials (previously on HN
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18655712) Akoya in US
| and most European providers use real bank APIs.
| balaji1 wrote:
| The workaround for data entry I have in hledger are a few csv
| import scripts for various sources of txn info, but I still
| have to manually edit the imported data sometimes. So still
| would prefer something that can auto-import transactions. The
| other thing I have done is close a few accounts to simplify
| this process.
| linux2647 wrote:
| Not to mention the companion mobile apps that companies like
| YNAB provide. It'd be nice to have something self-hosted and
| hackable, but my spouse won't want to use it unless the mobile
| app is good
| candiddevmike wrote:
| If you're looking for budgeting like old YNAB and a general
| household management solution, checkout Homechart:
| https://homechart.app
| BbzzbB wrote:
| I listened to a talk by YNAB's creator last year (about
| development not the program itself). Didn't realize until this
| thread how popular it is.
| __michaelg wrote:
| Side note: If you need to say this:
|
| > (click on the icons for more information)
|
| then you almost certainly have an unintuitive design and know it,
| but instead of fixing it you just doubled down on it.
| prepend wrote:
| I noticed this and thought it was quite odd. I thought the
| icons were weird screenshots because they were so big.
|
| Comically the message worked and I tapped on them.
|
| I forgive these kinds of design mistakes in OSS projects
| because I'd rather have stuff that works than beautiful sites.
|
| Of course, I appreciate nice design too.
| Xeoncross wrote:
| The smallest change I could figure out is just to delete the
| single `opacity: 0` line in the CSS for the `.portfolio-item-
| caption`
| yessirwhatever wrote:
| Previous HN Thread [2020]:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20916920
| balaji1 wrote:
| how do Firefly or ActualBudget and the like compare to something
| like hledger?
| imroot wrote:
| It really just depends on how comfortable you are in the
| command line. If you know how to get your transactions
| downloaded from your bank and don't ever want to leave the
| command line, hledger is great for you -- I've been using
| hledger since 2019 and love every minute of it.
|
| If you need something point and click, or, need a high "wife-
| acceptance factor," firefly-iii is not a bad choice.
|
| After coming from hledger, I did try firefly, but, stuck with
| hlegder due to how amazingly powerful it is with nothing but a
| text input.
| balaji1 wrote:
| that's my impression about hledger and the plain text format
| as well. So not going to try other tools also.
|
| Wife acceptance factor tho haha.. we will be fine as long as
| we never show the beautiful UIs from the YNABs & Fireflys.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| I applaud the effort, but sometimes think apps like this when
| they promote self-hosting should have a mode of installation and
| operation that acts more or less like a desktop application.
| prepend wrote:
| They have a docker instal option. Granted it's a bit of
| overkill but you can run it like desktop software.
| sirsinsalot wrote:
| I mean, a windows installer (or RPM) that doesn't require a
| background process so that more people can access the value
| of the software. Even Flatpak or something if we are talking
| Linux specific.
|
| Having Docker and other "enthusiast" methods of running
| software makes it less accessible. Having a web-stack as the
| goto method of writing software doesn't make sense if it
| limits the audience that would gain value from it.
|
| I say this as someone who professionally maintains a web
| application that comes with a Windows installer, macOS
| traditional installation and a Linux RPM. All with desktop
| icons and it being pretty invisible to the user that it is a
| web application aside from the HTML-looking UI style.
|
| The software is for personal finance, it isn't for a niche
| that makes the install/access method particuarly sane. If it
| were software for managing a cluster of X-thing or something
| ... maybe.
| herdst wrote:
| Agree, ive installed this in the past and it was a pain in the
| ass. If i ever did budgeting/financial tracking again i would
| use a paid option
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| FWIW, Firefly III has an old Sandstorm package, but it isn't
| currently maintained so it's a fair bit out of date. We aim for
| "like installing an app on your phone".
|
| The problem here is ultimately on the platform your app runs
| on, not the app itself. If web servers are hard to spin up, so
| too are web apps.
| spicyusername wrote:
| I would love to explore something other than Mint, but having
| 100% of the data collection automated is so nice.
| muznar wrote:
| I literally had to reinstall this to a new free instance on
| Saturday after getting my instance deleted accidentally.
|
| I have been tracking and exporting backups of my finances using
| Firefly since 2020. I am young, my finances are nothing fancy,
| they are mostly credit card purchases, my salary, and my rent.
|
| I love the flexibility of personally serving this on a dedicated
| server. Similar to the other commenter it consumes a lot of my
| time too. I tried to automate by writing small custom shortcuts
| in Apple Shortcuts for repeated things like posting a grocery
| purchase. Firefly has a comprehensive API, I have widgets on my
| homescreen showing my credit card balances at all times etc.
|
| I like knowing how much I spend on grocery each month, how much I
| spent clothing last year vs this year, the effect of having a
| Costco membership. It is fun and I am sure in the next 10 years
| it will be so much more interesting looking at data from early
| years.
| aftbit wrote:
| I currently use Mint by Intuit. I hate the new UI, the constant
| ads, and the amount of trust I have to give them (with my bank
| credentials). I would love to self-host something else that can
| auto-import all of my transactions. I'll have to check out
| Saltedge and Nordigen. I might also write my own Plaid API
| integration. Just as much trust though...
|
| Open banking data APIs sounds like an easy win for regulators,
| but probably the Intuit lobby would oppose that.
| bredren wrote:
| I am about ready to throw in the towel and use mint. It's the
| only product Apple has built a native integration for, with no
| news of other products.
|
| I've written asking about it but nothing. It's pretty annoying
| because Apple Card is supposed to offer privacy, then they turn
| around and make the first transaction integration with mint.
| Wth.
| Karawebnetwork wrote:
| It seems like someone or something has crashed the demo.
|
| It outputs an error log.
|
| Whoops! An error occurred. Unfortunately, this error was not
| recoverable :(. Firefly III broke. The error is:
|
| Could not save preference: SQLSTATE[22001]: String data, right
| truncated: 1406 Data too long for column 'data' at row 1 (SQL:
| update `preferences` set `data` =
| [{"ip":"00.000.00.00","time":"2022-05-30 20:02:06","notified":fal
| se},{"ip":"00.000.00.00","time":"2022-05-30 20:02:10","notified":
| false},{"ip":"00.000.00.00","time":"2022-05-30 20:02:15","notifie
| d":false},{"ip":"00.000.00.00","time":"2022-05-30
| 20:02:16","notified":false}, ...
|
| My IP was in the list.
|
| Let's just say it is hard to trust a piece of software with my
| financial data after this.
|
| (I changed all the IP addresses for 00.000.00.00 to preserve some
| anonymity.)
| sergnio wrote:
| Completely agree...
| [deleted]
| kailanb wrote:
| I recently discovered PocketSmith[0] which is not free nor open-
| source, but I have found it to be the easiest to keep up to date.
| It automatically pulls transactions from most banks and credit
| providers, which I've been unable to replicate with other
| solutions.
|
| [0]: https://www.pocketsmith.com/
| skoskie wrote:
| It's also one of the few that does a good job of forecasting
| balances.
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(page generated 2022-05-30 23:00 UTC)