[HN Gopher] Ddram disk - A PCIe card with 14x RAM slots
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       Ddram disk - A PCIe card with 14x RAM slots
        
       Author : cheuv
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2022-05-30 12:20 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ddramdisk.store)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ddramdisk.store)
        
       | liminalsunset wrote:
       | An underrated use case for this would be for storage of sensitive
       | information. Information stored on a non volatile device is
       | difficult to erase (Format NVM/ATA Secure require power cycle,
       | hard drives require time to actually wile). Even if the data is
       | encrypted, it is vulnerable to xkcd's "rubber hose decryption".
       | 
       | With DRAM, the storage media itself is fairly volatile and power
       | removal/memory content initialization should be much faster.
        
         | halJordan wrote:
         | Apple solved this problem at scale some time ago. Im not sure
         | slamming ram on a pcie card is a better solution than including
         | a piece of effaceable storage somewhere.
        
       | resonator wrote:
       | There is a lot more technical information at
       | http://ddramdisk.store/.
       | 
       | It's slower than RAM, runs at around full pcie 4x speed of 7GB/s
       | but it upports way more capacity than most boards would allow.
        
       | humanistbot wrote:
       | What is the competitive advantage of this versus NVMe? Their 1TB
       | ramdisk is $1000, while a Gen 4 NVMe PCI-e card gives the same
       | speeds in a smaller and more standard format for $150-$200.
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | RAM doesn't have a fixed number of write cycles. It can be
         | written to indefinitely, but NVME flash has an estimated number
         | of TBs that it can write before it fails.
         | 
         | RAM is volatile (the data is destroyed when the power is cut),
         | which can be a security feature. There appears to be a battery
         | backup on these boards, but I imagine that it can be removed
         | easily.
        
         | steeve wrote:
         | Latency maybe?
        
         | Nexxxeh wrote:
         | Write endurance I guess would be one.
         | 
         | Samsung 980 Pro is under warranty up to 600 TBW.
         | 
         | I don't know if that is external data written, or also includes
         | whatever overhead the drive's internal processes have, which I
         | imagine is higher when you run it near max capacity.
         | 
         | RAM has virtually unlimited write endurance.
         | 
         | I was interested for CCTV recording, as it can be murder on
         | standard HDDs and consumer SSDs. Continuous writing at whatever
         | the total bitrate of all cameras is, plus whatever index you're
         | using, plus whatever clips its generating.
         | 
         | Ideally HDD for the constant, SSD for the clips and index.
         | 
         | I had a small (120GB) clip and index SSD drive start to
         | struggle in a dirt-cheap non-critical system and found it had
         | written 42TB in a year. Now part of that was poor
         | configuration, but the drive was REALLY starting to struggle,
         | throughput would occasionally drop off a cliff.
         | 
         | The system was battery backed, so a RAM disk would have been
         | fine, and on triggering the UPS I'd have it just copy the
         | contents to a fast HDD.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jmalicki wrote:
         | Speaking as someone who actually runs NVMe RAIDs for large-ish
         | databases, the NVMe speeds quoted are usually only attainable
         | for large sequential streaming loads. While they are not
         | spinning disks with heads that need to seek, there is still
         | very substantial random I/O overhead with SSDs, including NVMe.
         | Even with a top of the line model like a Samsung 980 Pro, you
         | might only get 5% the PCIe 4 bus speed with heavy random IO
         | performance.
         | 
         | RAM has cachelines and such, but postgres reading 8k at a time
         | isn't limited by that.
         | 
         | How to work something like this into Linux as say, a very fast
         | swap device, is another question.
        
       | xbmcuser wrote:
       | With ddr5 entering mainstream we will soon have a lot of used
       | ddr3 and ddr4 modules available for cheap.
        
       | anfractuosity wrote:
       | Out of interest, would you get a similar bandwidth using DDRx on
       | this card over PCIe, to using DDRx in the standard memory sockets
       | on a motherboard
       | 
       | Edit: Looks like the slowest DDR4 gives 19200 MB/s
       | https://uk.crucial.com/support/memory-speeds-compatability
       | 
       | Not sure what PCIe that card supports is though
        
         | convolvatron wrote:
         | I haven't kept up with the speed and feeds, but in general PCI
         | bandwidth is a decimal order of magnitude less than all the
         | memory controller bandwidth
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | Looks like the card is PCIe 4.0 x4, which gives about 8GB/s.
         | Not sure if this board is driving the RAM at full speed, or how
         | many controllers there are, but more lanes could make this
         | faster.
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | It seems these are not produced any more? [1] If someone is
       | currently manufacturing a battery/capacitor backed memory card
       | that accepts several DIMM's of the recent memory modules _like
       | 32GB+ ea._ I would be interested. There should be benchmarks from
       | a popular 3rd party reviewer.
       | 
       | [1] - https://superuser.com/questions/1508905/is-there-a-modern-
       | ra...
        
       | aeaa3 wrote:
       | Is this for real? The store, which looks pretty amateurish, has
       | no products for sale ("out of stock") and the prices are vastly
       | too good to be true.
       | 
       | DDR3 memory for 40c per gigabyte? Cheapest I can see on Amazon is
       | 5 times that. 256GB of memory (plus the board itself) for $280?
       | Not possible.
       | 
       | Sorry, I don't believe it.
        
         | wtallis wrote:
         | I'm also doubtful that a memory controller with the necessary
         | pin count can even fit under that heatsink. 14 DIMM slots can't
         | all be sharing just one or two 64-bit channels at anything
         | approaching standard speeds and timings.
        
         | farkanoid wrote:
         | Something seems a bit dodgy. The about page shows the top and
         | bottom PCB layouts without any RAM sockets, only dozens of DDR
         | RAM ICs soldered directly to the back of the card.
         | 
         | ...Which would be fine, had I not stumbled upon (what seems to
         | be) the original project[1], in Russian no less.
         | 
         | The blog shares the same block diagram, images and DDR PCB
         | layout. There are no DDR RAM slots. Further, the slots are
         | through-hole and not SMD, you wouldn't be able to attach a
         | heatsink directly to the back of the card as shown in the
         | images.
         | 
         | [1] https://habr.com/ru/post/567742/
        
           | rincebrain wrote:
           | That doesn't seem to be the original, given that Google
           | Translate translates the top of the article as "originally
           | posted by" with a link to ddramdisk.tech, which 404s now, but
           | originally [1] did not.
           | 
           | [1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20210714152011/https://ddra
           | mdisk...
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-30 23:02 UTC)