[HN Gopher] Why is Bitcoin losing the dark-net markets?
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       Why is Bitcoin losing the dark-net markets?
        
       Author : yamrzou
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2022-05-29 09:24 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (wildsnow2d9.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (wildsnow2d9.substack.com)
        
       | drummer wrote:
       | Within less than 2 years monero will have taken over darknet.
       | Then itll go mainstream.
        
         | bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
         | Definitely heard this 2 years ago, 4 years ago, 6 years go and
         | even 8 years ago.
         | 
         | I think it'll take a lot longer than you/we think.
        
         | hammyhavoc wrote:
         | Do you hold Monero?
        
       | lawn wrote:
       | Privacy, like encryption, really needs to be convenient to be
       | effective at scale.
       | 
       | While you certainly can achieve good enough privacy with Bitcoin,
       | it's cumbersome as you need to jump through several hoops and
       | it'd rady to make a single mistake that makes it all moot.
       | 
       | That's why all these opt-in solutions are doomed to failure, and
       | the best (and only) solution is privacy-by-default like Monero
       | does.
       | 
       | And the auther is correct that Bitcoin's culture is the problem,
       | as the Bitcoin community will never hardfork to enforce privacy
       | in this manner, so Bitcoin will never regain adoption on dark-net
       | markets.
        
       | digianarchist wrote:
       | Is it? Haven't used Dark Net Markets in a while but I just logged
       | onto the largest market according to Dread, and it looks like
       | Bitcoin is not just widely accepted but the market default
       | currency.
        
       | spiritchasa wrote:
       | What's the 411 on MimbleWimble?
        
         | phyro wrote:
         | If you're interested in a non-technical explanation of
         | Mimblewimble, I tried to explain it through pictures here
         | https://phyro.github.io/what-is-grin/mimblewimble.html
        
           | pharmakom wrote:
           | I read the whole thing, thanks for sharing.
           | 
           | One thing I didn't understand... if the kernel set grows for
           | every new utxo, then is it possible to match a previous utxo
           | with a newly added utxo by repeatedly trying kernels until
           | you find the one that works for the pair?
        
             | tromp wrote:
             | every transaction comes with one (or sometimes multiple)
             | kernels. it also comes with a scalar offset, that gets
             | summed when merging transactions together, making it
             | impossible invert the merging (unless you saw the original
             | txs, e.g. in the mempool).
        
         | smegsicle wrote:
         | does anyone here speak jive?
        
       | spiritchasa wrote:
       | What's the OP's thought on Mimble Wimble as recently implemented
       | on a Scrypt based POW chain.
        
         | tromp wrote:
         | MW hides amounts and addresses [1], but not the transaction
         | graph. However, MW can be extended with a coinswap protocol [2]
         | that obscures the tx graph as well, giving pretty good privacy,
         | while improving scalability. Also see this comparison of 3
         | blockchains [3].
         | 
         | [1] https://forum.grin.mw/t/scalability-vs-privacy-chart
         | 
         | [2] https://forum.grin.mw/t/mimblewimble-coinswap-proposal
         | 
         | [3] https://phyro.github.io/grinvestigation/why_grin.html
        
       | Deritiod wrote:
       | Funny enough: the trust in darknet comes from customer ratings,
       | seller deposit and moderators.
       | 
       | Not from Bitcoin.
       | 
       | A great example on why 'trust' only works for everything inside
       | the Blockchain only.
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | > A great example on why 'trust' only works for everything
         | inside the Blockchain only.
         | 
         | Having a "trustless" component at the core of a Blockchain has
         | made us all re-examine the places where we deeply rely on trust
         | for real interaction. It is ironic how "trustless" technology
         | is so apt for scamming if you can trigger peoples desire for
         | wealth at the same time. "You don't have to trust me" was
         | always a great bait for a victim who takes trust for granted.
         | You just need to say high numbers and people will wire money to
         | you.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Because Bitcoin is not 'anonymous' and it is traceable and it
       | never guaranteed privacy features in its whitepaper unlike
       | privacy coins like Monero, MobileCoin, Grin and Zcash?
        
         | randomhodler84 wrote:
         | And now Litecoin with MWEB! (NB: LTC enabled privacy support
         | last week).
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | I am surprised no one mentioned that it is possible to trace
       | bitcoin. To me, that is the biggest reason for its use declining
       | in the "dart-net" (tm). (edit, just saw someone mentioned tracing
       | already)
       | 
       | To me, I still equate bitcoin and others to a ponzi scheme, but
       | this article make me wonder if its real value depends upon its
       | use for illegal activities. If use in these activities drop, I
       | can see large drops in bitcoin value.
        
         | wcoenen wrote:
         | > _I am surprised no one mentioned that it is possible to trace
         | bitcoin_
         | 
         | You mean, other than the fact that that's what the whole blog
         | post is about? :-)
        
         | sshine wrote:
         | > I am surprised no one mentioned that it is possible to trace
         | bitcoin.
         | 
         | The many ways to CoinJoin that the article covers address just
         | that. (Just saying for completeness.)
         | 
         | > this article make me wonder if its real value depends upon
         | its use for illegal activities
         | 
         | Bitcoin has many values to many people. Speculation was most
         | often at the top, money laundering / unsanctioned money
         | transfers, drug trade, trafficking and similar non-speculative,
         | criminal uses second. With the recent changes, speculation may
         | come to have a smaller share than before, but still
         | significant. Since the dream of STONKS was always what made the
         | general population condone crypto currencies, maybe we'll see a
         | decline in support in western societies. At least, with the
         | heavy AML effort in the EU, it could go that way. I sense that
         | Asia is not going that way soon. From what I've read (I'm not
         | in Asia), it is as hyped as it ever was. I suspect it fits with
         | gambling cultures.
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-29 23:02 UTC)