[HN Gopher] Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Qantas ferried an engine on the wing of a 747 (2016)
        
       Author : Stratoscope
       Score  : 164 points
       Date   : 2022-05-29 05:41 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.flightradar24.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.flightradar24.com)
        
       | noipv4 wrote:
       | Air India Flight 182, which was bombed on 06/1985 also carried a
       | spare for repairs. Investigators initially speculated that the
       | extra weight on one side might be the reason for the fatal
       | destruction of the plane.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | olliej wrote:
       | Isn't that an intended standard design use of a 747?
        
         | roelschroeven wrote:
         | Yes, absolutely. I don't see why this is noteworthy, the 747
         | was specifically designed to be able to do this.
        
           | spockz wrote:
           | Well not all of us are familiar with the design. Meanwhile
           | loads of new people join the internet every day. So it is
           | going to be novel to someone.
        
           | usrusr wrote:
           | I'm just surprised they didn't go all the way and solve the
           | apparent drag issue that forces them to remove the fan by
           | making that fifth pylon sufficiently operational to fly the
           | extra engine powered, running at some very low throttle
           | level.
           | 
           | I know the answer, which is that the fan and the turbine are
           | very much separate entities and that removal of the fan
           | blades is a long shot from taking apart the complete engine,
           | but a more gut level part of my brain still likes to consider
           | the entire pod "the jet engine", and from that point of view
           | it feels as if they'd strip out 90% of "the engine" when in
           | reality the entire turbine remains untouched.
        
       | null0pointer wrote:
       | What I find interesting is that the plane wings are modular
       | enough to actually do stuff like this. Pretty cool!
        
         | bragr wrote:
         | >the plane wings are modular enough to actually do stuff like
         | this
         | 
         | Not really. The 5th pylon is an original design item and is
         | only on the the left wing. When the 747 first started
         | operating, IIRC there were no cargo aircraft big enough to
         | transport fully assembled 747 engines so there was a real
         | logistical concern about transporting spare and faulty engines
         | to and from far flung destinations. It's kind of a relic of a
         | certain age between the dawn of large turbofan engines but
         | before the growth of the modern aviation industry.
         | 
         | The presence of that 5th pylon does mean some 747 get used for
         | some interesting things. Virgin Orbit launches their rocket
         | from a heavily upgraded 5th pylon.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_Girl_(aircraft)
        
           | usr1106 wrote:
           | A regular plane option that will go away. Not very quickly,
           | but planes don't live forever either. The last 747 is planned
           | to be built this year.
           | 
           | No idea whether any twin engine jet has a 3rd pylon. My guess
           | would be the asymmetry would be much more difficult to handle
           | for offering regular passenger flights.
        
       | belter wrote:
       | This capability was into the original design of 747, but
       | historically it's not the only model capable of transporting the
       | spare engine.
       | 
       | Here is an Air Lanka L-1011-500 TriStar doing the same:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_L-1011_TriStar#/media...
       | 
       | And an even older DC8:
       | https://nitter.net/PilotJamesB/status/1262751026408378369
       | 
       | Other models like the 707-300 or the VC-10 and Super VC-10 also
       | did it: https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775179
       | 
       | Aparently doing this makes the fuel consumption increase a lot.
       | 
       | "What are the consequences of attaching an unused extra engine
       | under Boeing 747 wing?':
       | https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/53755/what-are-...
        
       | sreevisakh wrote:
       | The ill-fated Boeing 747 flight AI182 (Kanishka) was carrying an
       | extra engine just like this, when it was destroyed over Atlantic
       | ocean by a terrorist bomb attack in June 1985. The presence of
       | the extra engine was investigated as a possible cause of the
       | disaster before conclusive evidence of a bomb explosion was
       | found. (That and another explosion on the ground at Narita, Japan
       | in a container destined for another Air India flight).
       | 
       | [1] https://aviation-
       | safety.net/database/record.php?id=19850623-...
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | Every time I read the term "security theater", I remember how
         | frequent plane hijackings and bombings were pre-9/11.
        
           | eesmith wrote:
           | Schneier's argument (in 2007, quoting https://www.schneier.co
           | m/news/archives/2007/08/everything_we...) was that:
           | 
           | > "There have been exactly two things since 9/11 that have
           | made air travel safer," Schneier said recently over spring
           | rolls at a favorite Vietnamese restaurant on Nicollet Avenue.
           | "Reinforcing the cockpit door and telling people to fight
           | back in the event of an attack." After a brief pause, half-
           | devoured roll in hand, he reconsidered. "Well, maybe three,"
           | he said. "I'm on the fence about sky marshals."
           | 
           | Those two or three are not security theater, a term he uses
           | for 'new measures that conveyed safety but accomplished
           | little.'
           | 
           | He gives an example of security theater - requiring people to
           | throw out their cigarette lighters. When they could buy
           | cigarette lighters once they pass through security.
           | 
           | If those two or three things alone indeed caused the decrease
           | in plane hijackings and bombings that you commented about,
           | then the rest - dumping out water, taking shoes off, etc. -
           | is very likely security theater.
        
         | EdwardDiego wrote:
         | Wow, "Canadian Sikh terrorists" was not something I was
         | expecting to read about today.
        
           | newsclues wrote:
           | It's funny because the Canadian leader of the federal NDP was
           | pretty reluctant to blame the terrorists who did this...
           | 
           | https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/opinion/article-the-
           | stra...
        
           | disillusioned wrote:
           | The whole thing is fascinating. I only just read about it
           | because of the long slog that was Neal Stephenson's
           | Termination Shock, which spends basically half the book
           | talking about the China/India Line of Actual Control, and
           | dips into Sikhism a bit.
           | 
           | I had no idea that Indira Ghandi was assassinated by her two
           | Sikh bodyguards, after she insisted they be reinstated to her
           | protective detail, Intelligence Bureau having removed them
           | after Operation Bluestar. The same operation is what lead to
           | the Air India 182 plane bombing. Quite the blowback, only to
           | then be met with the killing of over 8,000 Sikhs in the 1984
           | anti-Sikh riots.
        
             | rajeshp1986 wrote:
             | Whats more interesting is that the terror group which
             | carried out the plane hijacking is still active in Canada.
             | In fact the group was not prosecuted for the hijack and
             | other attacks.
             | 
             | https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/us-
             | decla...
        
           | sreevisakh wrote:
           | It was the biggest incident of aviation terrorism prior to
           | 9-11. World was very different back then - not a surprise it
           | sounds improbable today.
        
           | bragr wrote:
           | I had a similar reaction when I first read about it. kind of
           | crazy how no one was ever really held responsible and then
           | 9-11 just kind of pushed it out of most of the public's
           | collective memory, or at least that's how it seems to me.
        
             | cm2187 wrote:
             | There has been a lot of terrorist activity continuously in
             | europe since the 60s. In the 60s/70s it was mostly far left
             | terrorism (red brigade, baader-meinhof gang, etc) and some
             | independence movements (FLN or the opposite like OAS). In
             | the 70s/80s independence movements (palestinians, IRA, ETA,
             | etc), and state sponsored terrorism (Iran, Libya). In the
             | 90s it became islamists. The far right committed
             | continuously rare but large attacks (like Oklahoma city,
             | Breivik). If you go further back in history the anarchists
             | were doing a lot of bombings at the end of the XIX early
             | XX.
             | 
             | The point is that islamist terrorism isn't a large uptick
             | in terror activity, both in term of number of incidents and
             | number of victims. They do more spectacular attacks though.
             | But the reaction it created is kind of curious (security in
             | airports, army in the street, state surveillance),
             | particularly in countries with an otherwise large tolerance
             | to crime like the US (tough laws but very high level of
             | crime) and Europe (lax law enforcement) where terrorism is
             | a drop in the ocean of regular crime.
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | I'd posit that's because a growing Islamic movement
               | allows power to rapidly shift outside the established
               | political structure. Just like with papistry in Europe in
               | the past, if you're using people's faith to manipulate
               | them then someone coming in and 'stealing' those people's
               | adherence means your power is depleted.
               | 
               | Islam was arguably designed by Mohammed to cede power
               | from the establishment of his time. Joseph Smith's
               | (Mormonism) very obvious deceptions lead to a new global
               | power structure; Ron Hubbard's (Scientology) even more
               | obvious deceptions are used to target individuals in
               | powerful positions and gain leverage over them.
               | 
               | Those who truly believe will always have a negative
               | reaction to religious ideas that challenge their truth;
               | those who use religion to bolster power will be even more
               | against new religious ideas.
        
               | gattilorenz wrote:
               | > But the reaction it created is kind of curious
               | (security in airports, army in the street, state
               | surveillance)
               | 
               | Not sure about the other examples, but the "Red Brigades"
               | (Brigate Rosse) and other terrorist acts in Italy lead to
               | special laws that extended considerably the powers of
               | police (you can be searched without a warrant if there's
               | the suspicion you have a weapon, you would potentially be
               | arrested for wearing a helmet or other face cover without
               | legitimate need, e.g. in a demonstration) and the use of
               | force, the creation of new "swat-like" police forces. And
               | of course, there was considerably more police on the
               | street in those years...
               | 
               | Fun fact, all I know about Germany is that they proposed
               | (and too slowly deployed) a new font for car plates after
               | the Baader-Meinhof gang successfully altered with black
               | tape a plate.
        
               | Archelaos wrote:
               | For Germany, the Munich massacre at the 1972 Summer
               | Olympics was a turning point. A few days later, the
               | federal anti-terror squadron GSG 9 was formed. Since 1974
               | the German states established their own special commands
               | (SEK).
               | 
               | The most famous operation of GSG 9 was the storming of
               | the hijacked Lufthansa aircraft "Landshut" at Mogadishu
               | airport (Somalia) in 1977, freeing all 86 passengers.
               | (The crew's captain had been executed by the terrorists
               | before.)[1]
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa_Flight_181
        
               | Archelaos wrote:
               | Right-wing terrorism must not be forgotten. There are
               | indications that people involved in NATO's "stay behind"
               | forces, designed for guerilla warfare behind Russian
               | lines, turned terrorist and were responsible for terror
               | attacks in Italy and Germany in the 1980s. The crimes
               | were never fully solved, though. There was also a neo-
               | Nazi terrorist group (NSU) active in Germany in the
               | 2000s.
        
               | CTDOCodebases wrote:
               | I think the response is a bit different because
               | previously the attacks relied on the attacker not staying
               | at the scene of the attack plus the attacker wanted to
               | survive the attack.
               | 
               | With Islamic terrorism came more sophisticated attacks
               | that required more logistical planning. These were only
               | possible because the people carrying out the attacks were
               | simultaneously committing suicide in the process.
               | 
               | Previous attacks did affect procedures it's just that
               | they weren't as noticeable and the type of surveillance
               | we have now was not possible at the time due to the
               | technology being used. For instance bags were unloaded if
               | the passenger didn't board[0] or flight observation decks
               | were enclosed to stop RPG's being fired at airplanes[1].
               | 
               | [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103?wpr
               | ov=sfti1
               | 
               | [1] -
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Orly_Airport_attacks
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | There is a _lot_ of depth and history here.
             | 
             | * the US had the anti-communist McCarthy hearings.
             | 
             | Canada had secret shunning commitees. See a book/video
             | called "The UnCanadians".
             | 
             | (Millions of Canadian households had files on them, at a
             | time when Canada had < 16M people.)
             | 
             | * Due to this, and the RCMP going bananas in other ways
             | (eg, burning down barns on private property because bikers
             | were legally meeting there....), parliament disbanded the
             | RCMP's domestic and international "spy" departments.
             | 
             | CSIS, CSEC and other agencies were formed.
             | 
             | * During the transition from the RCMP handling terrorism
             | reports, to CSIS, there was bad blood, _and_ a desire to
             | make a clean break, eg, bad RCMP culture was to be replaced
             | with a new agency new culture.
             | 
             | * the Air India disaster had _multiple_ people call in, all
             | reporting, with details, to the RCMP that it was going to
             | happen
             | 
             | * due to all of the above, these reports never made it to
             | CSIS, and the RCMP was at that point forbidden to
             | investigate on their own.
             | 
             | * in 2006? 8? A report was published detailing this
             | disconnect, and more.
             | 
             | I believe that some US agencies are exdeeding their power,
             | and one day, may need to be disbanded and replaced.
             | 
             | To all those, in any country considering the same? _Do it
             | right._
             | 
             | Do not let the transition, mess up ongoing dilligence.
             | 
             | The Air India disaster is a poster child for what can
             | happen.
        
               | Terry_Roll wrote:
               | > * Due to this, and the RCMP going bananas in other ways
               | (eg, burning down barns on private property because
               | bikers were legally meeting there....), parliament
               | disbanded the RCMP's domestic and international "spy"
               | departments.
               | 
               | So one of the five eyes activities I found which involved
               | the RCMP (I'm based in the UK), was putting a tiny
               | picture of a full stop (period/dot/whatever you want to
               | call it), at the end of sentences in various web forums.
               | If your broadband was slow, like in the dialup days,
               | before the image had downloaded, web browsers would put a
               | placeholder square or rectangle where the image would
               | eventually appear. I saw this on some forums, so
               | naturally I traced the image back to Canadian webservers.
               | It was their way of tracking who was reading what threads
               | on a forum, but not the only way!
               | 
               | You will find the security services sacrifice many
               | innocent members of the public even kids, in the 5eyes
               | countries, its how the security services effect change
               | when they cant manipulate or blackmail the politicians.
               | There is also a lot of collusion between the Police and
               | the security services, its totally criminal!
        
               | bragr wrote:
               | Tracking pixels may violate your privacy, but they are
               | not a government plot.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_beacon
        
       | StillBored wrote:
       | Ok, given its flying just the core, and not the fan, why doesn't
       | it fit in the cargo hold? I mean they wouldn't have to worry
       | about the extra drag/etc in the hold.
       | 
       | It also seems odd that they would do this on a plane carrying
       | commercial passengers since it seems more of an "experimental"
       | modification even if the manufacture has approved it.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jsjohnst wrote:
         | The issue is the dimensions of the cargo doors. A 747 engine is
         | approximately 2.25m in diameter and 5.5m long. Of the 4-5
         | different sized doors on a 747, there's only two that it would
         | fit through:
         | 
         | - Front nose cone door
         | 
         | - Main deck cargo door
         | 
         | I believe neither would be used on a passenger airline
         | configured 747 (could be wrong though!) and hence why the wing
         | based fifth pod configuration was likely used.
        
           | inferiorhuman wrote:
           | Wikipedia puts the CF6 from a 747-400 at 4.27m long, 2.69m
           | diameter. An RB-211 looks to be a little narrower and longer.
           | Cargolux puts the biggest rectangle that can fit through the
           | main cargo door at 3.05m x 3.10m. So yeah you could probably
           | fit an engine in a nacelle and fixture through the main deck
           | door on a freighter.
           | 
           | However your big limitation will be height at either 2.44m or
           | 3.00m depending on where on the main deck you're checking.
           | The lower deck (which is all you'd have available on a
           | passenger 747) has a much lower height limit (an LD-1 has a
           | height limit of 1.62 m).
           | 
           | An engine's just not going to fit inside unless you're
           | talking about something designed for oversize cargo like the
           | Dreamlifter (747) or Beluga (A300) or Beluga XL (A330).
           | Oversized cargo is also the main use case for the An-124/225.
           | 
           | https://www.cargolux.com/fleet-
           | equipment/aircraft/747-400f-s...
        
         | bragr wrote:
         | It's a design feature dating back to when there were no easy
         | ways to transport the engines. It's a perfectly cromulent way
         | to transport a 747 engine, just uncommon these days because
         | there are many large air freighters now (like the 747 itself).
         | The idea was that in the early days of the 747, airlines could
         | be self sufficient in transporting engines and their new
         | expensive planes wouldn't get stranded.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | It should be noted in context that original the 747 could,
           | like the 737 before it, service airfields too small to have
           | service centers. Therefore, it was important that another 747
           | could ferry in all parts needed to service a potentially
           | damaged 747 at these locations, including an entire engine.
           | 
           | Most aircraft with such capability are identified by the
           | inclusion of built-in stairs for passenger ingress/egress,
           | which the 747-100 had.
        
             | bragr wrote:
             | The 737-200 had an optional gravel kit for unpaved runways!
             | A few -200s still in use because of that feature
        
               | rkagerer wrote:
               | Neat - kind of like mid flaps for planes. Also thank you
               | for teaching me a new word, "cromulent".
        
               | delsarto wrote:
               | I am dating myself but I'm old enough to have watched the
               | Simpsons episode where this word was invented in its
               | first airing. Maybe it is a word now, I mean it's no more
               | or less ridiculous than other words, which somebody just
               | made up at some point too.
               | 
               | https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/what-does-
               | crom...
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | You're embiggening my perception of you.
        
         | sreevisakh wrote:
         | It isn't experimental or unique even if it's rare. It has been
         | done before. I'm not sure why this instance alone got such
         | attention.
         | 
         | Regarding the cargo hold problem, the aircraft wasn't carrying
         | just the engine core. The 'pod' is most likely the engine
         | nacelle itself. I wonder if the entire thing would fit through
         | the cargo door (mere speculation). While it's true that the 747
         | was originally meant as a cargo carrier, most of it was meant
         | to be loaded through the nose of the aircraft. The nose could
         | be opened for this purpose and the cockpit was above the cargo
         | area to accommodate this.
        
           | Sakos wrote:
           | It got so much attention _because_ it 's rare. We like to
           | read about things that seem novel and interesting. I wasn't
           | aware the 747 had this capability until reading this article
           | today.
        
           | hef19898 wrote:
           | Normaly the nose loading is done oy when _absolutely_
           | necessary. It 's a pain, takes ages and is complicated. When
           | possible stuff is squeezed through the fuselage cargo doors.
           | Back the day we did it with a ten foot sea container, never
           | thought it would fit...
        
             | jsjohnst wrote:
             | > Back the day we did it with a ten foot sea container,
             | never thought it would fit
             | 
             | How'd you end up doing it? Roll it on its side? Usually the
             | height of a sea going container is ~2.6m and per the specs
             | I'm seeing online the allowed height through the nose is
             | only ~2.49m. Because they are just taller than they are
             | wide, spec wise it would fit laying on its side, but still
             | curious when doing it for real if that was necessary.
        
               | avar wrote:
               | Presumably they're talking about a 8x8x10 container. The
               | 747 is specced for 8x8 w/h containers.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | Yeah, 8' just barely fits in via the nose. You got maybe
               | an inch or two to spare on height.
               | 
               | Going via the main deck side doors on a cargo style 747
               | would be much easier imho for a container that size. Not
               | only can you go a full 10ft high, you've got around 11'
               | straight in width clearance.
        
               | hef19898 wrote:
               | They maneuvered it through the side door, with four
               | people, inch by inch, millimeter by millimeter. Working
               | for the airport at the time I didn't touch a thing,
               | better to have crew damage a perfectly fine aircraft.
               | Still impressive feat of loading, almost on par with the
               | Russians, they use the cargo door to squeeze the cargo
               | properly in, like avergae Joe slaming his trunk.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | Ah, side door. That should've been easy then, no?
        
             | sreevisakh wrote:
             | I agree about the nose loading part. Meanwhile, how does an
             | engine with its nacelle compare to a marine container in
             | terms of dimensions? Would it be easier or harder to load
             | through the fuselage doors? I also assume that they will
             | need a fixture or container for the engine if it was to be
             | loaded into the cargo hold.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | Engine is roughly 2.25m in diameter and 5.5m in length.
               | So it would fit through the nose cone door, even with a
               | modest fixture/container, with room to spare.
        
           | kqr wrote:
           | > While it's true that the 747 was originally meant as a
           | cargo carrier
           | 
           | I was surprised by this so I consulted Wikipedia. Apparently
           | when the 747 was designed they were convinced enough that
           | passengers in the future would not want to travel
           | subsonically, so they designed the 747 to convert to a
           | freighter, to not have to throw the design away when it's
           | hard to attract passengers due to the "low" 0.8 mach speeds!
        
             | sofixa wrote:
             | In general there was a time when supersonic flight was
             | considered the future evolution that will displace the
             | existing tech, like jets displaced propeller aircraft. The
             | Concorde was supposed to be the first one, and it was
             | designed as a general use plane, it wasn't until much later
             | British Airways and Air France thought about marketing it
             | for business/first class "luxury" experience.
             | 
             | For a myriad of reasons ( Boeing failing to make their own
             | supersonic airliner which helped the US Congress banning
             | supersonic flights over the US being one of them), we never
             | got there though, and it seems we never will since the
             | currently planned crop of supersonic airliners ( Boom and
             | co) are specifically targeting the business niche.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | > Boeing failing to make their own supersonic airliner
               | which helped the US Congress banning supersonic flights
               | over the US being one of them
               | 
               | You sure about that order? I thought supersonic domestic
               | flights got banned in the US and _then_ the Boeing
               | supersonic airliner was doomed. I'm not positive, hence
               | asking.
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | Nope, government funding of Boeing's SST was cut in 1971,
               | while the SST ban over the US was enacted in 1973. It's
               | fairly certain that had Boeing made an SST there wouldn't
               | have been any ban.
        
               | jsjohnst wrote:
               | Thanks! I only knew the oft parroted version of the story
               | from family members who worked at Boeing. I guess the
               | detail I didn't immediately recall was "plane over
               | budget" (which likely lead to the government funding you
               | mentioned being pulled). I still believe that the biggest
               | reason for the ban was NIMBYs though, if you've ever been
               | around sonic booms you know how intrusive they are. I
               | lived just far enough away from a military base as a kid
               | that we happened to be near where pilots would
               | occasionally go super sonic as part of their training.
               | After living in California years later and experiencing
               | multiple earthquakes, I'd say the sonic boom was about
               | like a magnitude 6, but only lasting for a couple
               | seconds.
        
               | dorfsmay wrote:
               | Isn't the main reason the amount of fuel required to fly
               | supersonic?
        
               | bobthepanda wrote:
               | The designs did burn a lot of fuel, but sonic booms were
               | also extremely unpopular.
               | 
               | The FAA picked Oklahoma City (without asking them first)
               | for an experiment to subject a city to regular sonic
               | booms. It, uh, didn't go well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org
               | /wiki/Oklahoma_City_sonic_boom_tes...
        
               | dorfsmay wrote:
               | Right, but what I meant was that it'd be difficult to
               | have a sustainable supersonic flight business given the
               | fuel consumption required at those sppeds. My
               | understanding is that even though Air France and British
               | Airways were charging twice the price of normal first
               | class for Concord, they were losing money on them.
               | 
               | I'm surprised there aren't supersonic business jet
               | though.
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | > My understanding is that even though Air France and
               | British Airways were charging twice the price of normal
               | first class for Concord, they were losing money on them.
               | 
               | They weren't, the Concordes were quite profitable until
               | 9/11 and the following slump in international travel (
               | due to fear, increased controls and inconveniences) and
               | increase in oil prices.
               | 
               | > I'm surprised there aren't supersonic business jet
               | though
               | 
               | There are companies trying to build supersonic business
               | jets, like Boom.
        
               | Deritiod wrote:
               | It was a novelty. The market was small the expectation
               | that it costly but still profitable is easy.
               | 
               | But I wouldn't care for sonic travel besides the novelty.
               | 
               | Price wins
        
             | bobthepanda wrote:
             | Indeed, the 747 is quite popular amongst cargo carriers.
             | 
             | In comparison, part of the A380's short life is that it's
             | useless as a freighter since a minimal amount of freight
             | would bring it to "too heavy to fly" territory.
        
         | Gordonjcp wrote:
         | It's rare to see a car pulling a trailer, but it's not
         | experimental.
         | 
         | The "fifth pod" thing was designed in from the start.
        
         | hollerith wrote:
         | Well it is carrying the core and the nacelle. The nacelle is
         | the bulkiest part.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Discussed at the time (of the article):
       | 
       |  _How Qantas Ferried an Engine on the Wing of a 747_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10870123 - Jan 2016 (25
       | comments)
        
       | avar wrote:
       | I wonder what design constraints led to not mounting such an
       | engine facing backwards to reduce drag.
        
         | usefulcat wrote:
         | Why do you think mounting it backwards would reduce drag?
        
       | rzzzt wrote:
       | I have never heard or read the word "cowling" before, but just
       | finished watching a video saying that Apple's repair guide refers
       | to the tiny metal covers within the phone this way.
       | 
       | Cowling cowling cowling.
        
         | embedded_hiker wrote:
         | One of the early accomplishments of "NASA", long before it
         | became NASA, was the development of an improved cowling for
         | airplanes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NACA_cowling
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | Thanks! I was just excited about experiencing the frequency
           | illusion in real life -- fifteen-ish years of English without
           | cowling, then two cowlings in a day from two different
           | sources.
        
         | waqf wrote:
         | Ducks have ducklings, so naturally, cows have cowlings.
        
           | Fuhrer01 wrote:
           | Thanks!
        
         | billfruit wrote:
         | It is a fairly common term in automotive domain.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | No big deal. External payloads seem strange, but 747s have
       | carried much larger ones, such as the Space Shuttle.
       | 
       | Worse things have been carried under wings.[1]
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_n...
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | Yes but the Shuttle Transporter has several modifications and
         | reinforcements, so it's not really a "stock" 747
         | 
         | Flying it is also more complicated
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | >Flying it is also more complicated
           | 
           | This was something that always made me think about the
           | difficulties of flying something with multiple sources of
           | lift.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | Upmost importance was to attach the orbiter black side down:
           | 
           | https://i.stack.imgur.com/vaPH0.jpg
        
         | leeoniya wrote:
         | > Worse things have been carried under wings.[1]
         | 
         | this one [1] was way scarier, imo D:
         | 
         | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Goldsboro_B-52_crash
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | Though interesting, this is completely OT to this discussion.
        
             | Stratoscope wrote:
             | I suppose you could say the same thing about cm2187's
             | comment from a few minutes ago about the history of
             | terrorism.
             | 
             | Personally, one thing I enjoy about HN is the tangents that
             | discussions sometimes take. If there is something I can
             | learn from a comment, I'm not too worried about whether it
             | is strictly on topic.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | A tangent to the topic, sure, I love it. But hijacking
               | the discussion to draw attention to something that has
               | absolutely nothing to do with either the topic or
               | relevant to a specific comment it almost the definition
               | of a troll. Despite a glancing similarity to a detail not
               | relevant to the topic, GP was not relevant to the comment
               | he replied to.
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | If that's your threshold, I suspect you find a lot of
               | real-life trolls in everyday small talk.
               | 
               | "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity"
               | applies strongly to leeoniya's comment IMO.
        
             | nixass wrote:
        
           | js2 wrote:
           | There's still a bomb deep in the muck somewhere off of
           | Georgia (US) too.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Tybee_Island_mid-
           | air_coll...
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | The 747 had to be adapted/modified to carry the shuttle, but
         | the fifth pod to carry a spare engine was built in on some 747
         | models.
        
         | can16358p wrote:
         | > W80-1 variable yield nuclear warhead, were mistakenly loaded
         | onto a...
         | 
         | Imagine mistakenly loading a nuclear warhead on the wrong
         | plane.
        
           | dlsa wrote:
           | Imagine the _other_ team unloading what they were expecting
           | to be a warhead.
        
         | bayesian_horse wrote:
         | Normally not with passengers on board...
        
       | Rebelgecko wrote:
       | Does this "5th pod" exist solely for transporting spare engines,
       | or does it have other uses?
        
         | sreevisakh wrote:
         | It's known to be used for testing new engines and launching
         | rockets [1]. But I don't understand what they mean by 'pod'.
         | Can't figure out if they are referring to the hard point, pylon
         | or the engine nacelle.
         | 
         | [1] https://simpleflying.com/boeing-747-5-engines/
        
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