[HN Gopher] Odd DNS Requests that are Normal (2019)
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       Odd DNS Requests that are Normal (2019)
        
       Author : pmoriarty
       Score  : 38 points
       Date   : 2022-05-28 13:49 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (isc.sans.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (isc.sans.edu)
        
       | MarkovChain242 wrote:
       | Agree that analyzing DNS requests is _the_ highest-value infosec
       | practice when it comes to detecting compromises in enterprise
       | networks.
       | 
       | Shame that (mostly US-based) ISPs realized the same thing (albeit
       | for entirely different purposes), and therefore DoH is now pretty
       | much the default.
       | 
       | And ensuring all DoH requests go through a corporate proxy is...
       | not entirely trivial. On Windows, all major browsers respect
       | their respective group policies, but that doesn't help for
       | mobiles and such.
       | 
       | Shame!
        
         | josephcsible wrote:
         | > And ensuring all DoH requests go through a corporate proxy
         | is... not entirely trivial.
         | 
         | Remember that it's a good thing that it's hard to do that. If
         | it were easy, then the ISPs would just do it too.
        
           | LinuxBender wrote:
           | I have found it trivial to block DoH/DoT public resolvers and
           | I believe it would be trivial for an ISP to do it as well. My
           | theory around why they don't is the customer support issues
           | and potential negative PR. Adding to that, short of
           | totalitarian regimes there really is not any incentive to
           | block DoH. Totalitarian regimes can simply disable the
           | internet or kick doors down if they think something is up.
           | All other ISP's can still monitor what websites a person
           | visits if they wish as server names in TLS handshakes are not
           | encrypted. If anything DoH/DoT servers remove some load off
           | the ISP's DNS resolvers.
           | 
           | In my opinion DoH does not really add much privacy and in
           | reality just doubles the number of organizations that can
           | monitor a persons traffic patterns. Now instead of Comcast it
           | is Comcast and Cloudflare that can analyze ones behavior.
           | This would be a major win for governments should have an
           | agreement in place with a centralized DoH/DoT provider.
           | Instead of aggregating hundreds of ISP logs and having to
           | chase down all the new ISP's, they get everyone that is using
           | any of the popular browsers all in one fell swoop.
           | 
           | One place DoH might make sense is in an organization _such as
           | a college campus or company_ that enable fascist firewall
           | rules but have not _yet_ blocked DoH /DoT. Or maybe non-
           | technical parents using a consumer router to _block content_.
        
             | josephcsible wrote:
             | > All other ISP's can still monitor what websites a person
             | visits if they wish as server names in TLS handshakes are
             | not encrypted.
             | 
             | eSNI/ECH is a thing.
             | 
             | > Now instead of Comcast it is Comcast and Cloudflare that
             | can analyze ones behavior.
             | 
             | No, because of the above, it'd be just Cloudflare instead
             | of just Comcast, and there's two reasons to like that
             | better: that Cloudflare is more trustworthy, and that
             | Cloudflare doesn't know the real person behind the IP
             | address like Comcast does.
             | 
             | > One place DoH might make sense is in an organization such
             | as a college campus or company that enable fascist firewall
             | rules but have not yet blocked DoH/DoT. Or maybe non-
             | technical parents using a consumer router to block content.
             | 
             | It definitely does make sense in those places, but they're
             | far from the only ones.
        
               | LinuxBender wrote:
               | What browsers and how many sites are currently using eSNI
               | by default? My understanding is that _is a thing_ only in
               | limited concept. The RFC [1] is still an active draft.
               | 
               | Why is Cloudflare more trustworthy with my browsing
               | habits? I have no contract with them and no agreements on
               | what they may do with my internet activity. I have no
               | contract stating how the data is to be used, how long it
               | is to be kept or whom it may be shared with or sold to.
               | For all I know they could sell that data right back to
               | Comcast. Or worse, they could feed it into a ML training
               | program for a social credit system for future use.
               | 
               | [1] - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tls-
               | esni/
        
               | josephcsible wrote:
               | > What browsers and how many sites are currently using
               | eSNI by default?
               | 
               | It's not widely rolled out yet, but it exists and it will
               | be in the future.
               | 
               | > Why is Cloudflare more trustworthy with my browsing
               | habits?
               | 
               | Because of a comparison of Cloudflare's and Comcast's
               | past track record of privacy-related matters.
        
               | LinuxBender wrote:
               | I suppose my personal experience varies from that a bit.
               | I agree Comcast has a horribly shady past abusing their
               | customers.
               | 
               | Cloudflare's origins are lesser known, likely even to
               | those currently working for them. That doesn't really
               | matter for this purpose I suppose. _Former volunteer for
               | their previous honeypot project_
               | 
               | In the end, I have no contracts with anyone stating how
               | my data may be (ab)used or how long it will exist. So
               | instead of one company potentially abusing my data, now
               | it is two. There is really no way around that other than
               | to not participate. My personal preference is to assume
               | the Only Two Rules. [1]
               | 
               | In full disclosure, I use neither of those services for
               | DNS but my I would not expect non-HN people to use my
               | convoluted process combining open source VPN meshes,
               | dozens of unbound caches and dozens on many VPS providers
               | that talk to upstream DoT resolvers with cron jobs that
               | pre-cache thousands of domains in random orders using
               | "shuf" that I do not visit and dozens that I do visit and
               | unbound configured to both override min-ttl and to hold
               | onto 0-ttl records until requested again and running the
               | same cron jobs on my home firewalls that talk to those
               | VPS nodes over DoT and Tinc.
               | 
               | [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxi-IUnCN_8 [video]
        
       | Vladimof wrote:
       | Looking at my DNS requests, I discovered many things that are
       | considered normal but are completely non-necessary... like
       | Firefox pinging Mozilla's servers every few minutes to detect
       | captive portals (on my desktop computer). I stopped that one
       | (network.captive-portal-service.enabled) along with others in
       | other software and devices.
        
         | Terry_Roll wrote:
         | You can sneak information out via the DNS requests, got to
         | write your own DNS server first to respond accordingly but its
         | just one of the many ways you can bypass security systems, its
         | just another communication channel.
        
       | addingnumbers wrote:
       | It's been a couple years since I plugged in my Amazon Alexa, but
       | at the time it rocketed three domains to the top of my frequently
       | resolved list: example.com, example.net, and example.org each
       | dwarfed the 4th most frequent request and cumulatively they were
       | more than half my queries.
       | 
       | Sixty times per hour it resolved all three and sent http requests
       | to all three.
       | 
       | I assume it was a simple connectivity check, but using those
       | three domains was worse than redundant, it was gratuitous. They
       | all resolve to the same IP address, same NS record, and connect
       | to the same service on the same server. The only scenario I can
       | conceive of that would cause the second or third test to differ
       | from the first is if the IANA borked one of their registrar
       | records.
       | 
       | Anyway I got the thing to read me a book during LASIK recovery
       | and unplugged it within a week after the third time it piped up
       | out of nowhere. (Nothing like waking up during a deep sleep in a
       | quiet house to a blaring "SORRY, I DIDN'T QUITE CATCH THAT.")
       | Maybe someone who didn't have that problem can let us know if the
       | device is still doing this.
        
         | fulafel wrote:
         | Curious that example.com et al actually resolve and have IP
         | addresses even though they are IANA reserved domains for
         | documentation, I would have thought they won't result in
         | delivering requests over the network.
        
           | rushikesh98 wrote:
           | A non-working example would be a bad example.
        
           | jwilk wrote:
           | The existence of the website is documented in the RFC:
           | 
           | https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6761#section-6.5
           | 
           | > _All example names are registered in perpetuity to IANA:_
           | 
           | [...]
           | 
           | > _IANA currently maintains a web server providing a web page
           | explaining the purpose of example domains._
        
             | fulafel wrote:
             | Yep. That RFC also is interesting because the older RFC it
             | supersedes recommended using .example foremost, having the
             | example second-level domains in a more side note status,
             | and that is absent from the newer (2013) RFC.
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-28 23:01 UTC)