[HN Gopher] Reasons to ditch Chrome and use Firefox
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Reasons to ditch Chrome and use Firefox
        
       Author : ddtaylor
       Score  : 510 points
       Date   : 2022-05-28 08:00 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pcworld.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pcworld.com)
        
       | frankzander wrote:
       | Using Firefox all the time ... Brave seems also to be a
       | reasonable alternative. But I just don't like the Dev tools in
       | Chrome ... The FF ones are way better (IMHO). At the end it seems
       | so that FF isn't blocking a lot of tracking by default while
       | Brave do so. But FF with uBlockOrigin is a good match for
       | privacy.
        
         | toastal wrote:
         | uBlock Origin can do a lot more than people think too... easy
         | opt-in to JavaScript, cleaning tracking tokens from the URL,
         | and allowing me to block features from websites trying to be a
         | bit too 'social' or 'recommendy'. Fx will be skipping the part
         | of the latest WebManifest that cripples uBlock's ability to
         | block as well.
        
       | Cyder wrote:
       | I was using Firefox for a kiosk project and netstat/wireshark
       | kept showing connections to Google. I tried to de-Google firefox
       | and it wouldn't run. I was amazed Firefox is so tied to Google.
       | It was disheartening. Ive left Firefox for Brave after being a
       | Firefox evangelist for 15 years. Brave isn't perfect, but it
       | doesn't hide what it really is.
        
       | Vladimof wrote:
       | The worst part about Firefox for me is that they removed most
       | add-ons on Firefox Mobile (unless you use cumbersome
       | collections).
        
       | arun6582 wrote:
       | I have tried doing the several times in past because of chromes
       | arrogant and monopoly like attitude on forcing feature addition
       | or removal But browsing works better and faster in chrome and
       | most consumer base blindly use chrome If you want to build a
       | extension with a user base you will have to use chrome If you
       | want your website to work properly it must satisfy chrome first
        
       | shaman1 wrote:
       | I tried using Firefox on Android for a while but had to switch
       | back to Chrome mainly because Firefox reloads the page if you put
       | it in the background even for a few seconds. This caused real
       | issues when I had to approve a payment on a banking app I'm using
       | - after aproval going back to Firefox the page got refreshed and
       | I had to do it again. Chrome somehow manages to keep the page
       | loaded even with tens of open tabs.
       | 
       | Another thing missing in the Android version is the Print
       | function. Such a basic feature!
       | 
       | I've been using it on the desktop too and there it works ok, no
       | major issues - just the print dialog was much poorer then
       | Chrome's and I had to print from Chrome.
       | 
       | Firefox has a many people rooting for it but not enough people
       | contributing.
       | 
       | Brave strangely decided to go with Chromium rather than Firefox
       | as a base even though Brendan knew Firefox much better. And many
       | other browsers have decided the same Vivaldi, Edge, etc. At this
       | stage I'm afraid Firefox has too many unpolished edges,
       | especially on mobile to match the competition.
        
       | brokenkebab2 wrote:
       | "Lighter on system resources" contradicts to my experience: at
       | least on js-heavy websites FF made my laptop notably hotter than
       | Chrome, so on CPU side it didn't feel light at all
        
       | debacle wrote:
       | The timing on this article is interesting. My Firefox just
       | "refreshed" itself, turned Pocket back on, turned DNS over HTTPS
       | back on, removed all of my plugins, and then somehow leaked
       | itself up to 10gb of RAM (I'll blame Discord for that I guess).
       | 
       | The browser ecosystem under Google's benevolent dictatorship is
       | languishing.
        
         | jrootabega wrote:
         | I had two similar experiences recently. DOH turned itself on a
         | few weeks ago for everyone, I think, out of band from a new
         | release.
         | 
         | And when they released v100, the Ubuntu snap just updated
         | itself automatically and killed a firefox process that I was
         | actively using. (Not sure exactly whose fault that was, but I
         | think we can give Mozilla some of it.) After restarting, I was
         | greeted with that bullshit-purple-neon-themed "100 Thank You's"
         | modal dialog, with no useful information, that had to be
         | acknowledged before continuing.
        
         | fuckcensorship wrote:
         | I recommend checking out LibreWolf as a possible alternative:
         | https://librewolf.net/.
        
           | mark_l_watson wrote:
           | Thanks for the link! I have been using Safari on macOS and it
           | is not so bad on privacy (please correct me on this if I am
           | wrong) but I will try LibreWolf on my System76 Linux laptop.
        
       | SMAAART wrote:
       | Google Workspace user here, and Firefox and Google Docs/Sheets
       | don't play well together, I've tried.
       | 
       | Of course I'd like to find a Google Workspace replacement but I
       | can't seem to find any so, I am married to Google.
        
         | mark_l_watson wrote:
         | Well, Google Workspace is the best for work environments. Every
         | company I have worked for in the last decade uses GSuite, then
         | Workspace. I am happy running Google's stuff on my
         | corporate/job laptops, and more privacy preserving options on
         | my own systems.
        
         | computerfriend wrote:
         | Also a Google Workspace user, using Firefox for everything with
         | no issues.
        
       | sph wrote:
       | I honestly want to ditch Firefox and try a Chromium browser for a
       | minute [1], but I'm stuck on Firefox because it's the only one
       | with a killer feature: send a tab to/from iOS and my Linux
       | desktop.
       | 
       | I skip Chrome and Edge for privacy reasons, Brave have a crappy
       | and buggy sync feature that I don't know what OSes it supports,
       | but not my combination. Can't send tabs with them. Vivaldi
       | doesn't have an iOS port. Impossible to do with Chromium.
       | 
       | Firefox can send tabs to all my machines, and I use that feature
       | multiple times daily, such as finding a cool article while I'm
       | sitting on the couch and sending it to my desktop so I can read
       | it later. Mr. Eich, if you're around here, please please fix
       | syncing tabs in your browser, it's the only thing stopping me
       | from switching honestly.
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | 1: I quite like Firefox, but it's in a dying spiral, and I'm
       | starting to see broken sites. The Web is such a complicated
       | nightmare "protesting" won't change anything, and forking
       | neither, because it's too bloody complex. Chromium has won. Our
       | only hope is Mozilla takes their head out of their arse and start
       | working on their browser instead of faffing about and making
       | small, meaningless changes every release, but I don't see that
       | happening any time soon.
        
         | kristiandupont wrote:
         | > I'm starting to see broken sites
         | 
         | What are some examples of this? I keep seeing this complaint
         | and I keep asking for examples but I always get "just various
         | sites"-like answers. FF is my primary browser and I am not
         | seeing it. I am genuinely curious as to whether it is starting
         | to fall behind but I can recall maybe two or three instances
         | the past couple of years where I opened a site in Brave to see
         | if it worked there.
        
           | jahnu wrote:
           | I use both edge and Firefox daily and have also rarely seen
           | broken sites and even then I've experienced them in both
           | browsers at about the same rate.
        
           | 323 wrote:
           | Firefox is my main browser for many years now, but there are
           | two categories of sites that I only open in Chrome:
           | 
           | Video heavy sites, especially YouTube. It loads extremely
           | slowly compared to Chrome. And has much more video
           | stuttering. Probably Google is sabotaging YouTube in Firefox.
           | 
           | Complex interactive sites, like crypto exchanges. They are
           | slow and with many rendering artefacts in Firefox. Probably
           | because they don't even bother testing in Firefox.
        
             | cassepipe wrote:
             | I was wondering if it was still possible to stream a
             | youtube video out in VLC of if it has been made impossible
        
               | freebuju wrote:
               | It has always been possible to open YouTube links on VLC.
               | If you want to do so with even less clicks from your
               | browser, there's a _open with mpv_ extension. Can 't link
               | it now as am on mobile.
        
             | nemetroid wrote:
             | > Video heavy sites, especially YouTube. It loads extremely
             | slowly compared to Chrome. And has much more video
             | stuttering.
             | 
             | I recently had similar issues, and it turned out that
             | Firefox's cache was constantly nearly-full. Clearing the
             | cache returned YouTube to normal.
        
               | whoisthemachine wrote:
               | Ah yes, cache eviction, one of two hard problems in
               | computer science...
        
             | robonerd wrote:
             | > _Video heavy sites, especially YouTube._
             | 
             |  _Right-click - > Open With mpv_
             | 
             | It's a pain in the ass, but the performance gap is immense.
             | On a desktop I wouldn't bother, but on my laptop this has a
             | real impact on battery life.
        
             | guerrilla wrote:
             | > Video heavy sites, especially YouTube. It loads extremely
             | slowly compared to Chrome. And has much more video
             | stuttering. Probably Google is sabotaging YouTube in
             | Firefox.
             | 
             | Hmmm... I've never had this problem and I use YouTube
             | heavily. You sure your video acceleration and codecs and
             | all that are set up right?
        
               | ris58h wrote:
               | It's a known issue
               | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1658392 I
               | have a laptop with Intel HD graphics and Firefox can't
               | play fullhd video on x2 speed. It freezes every second.
               | Chrome on the same machine plays the same video
               | flawlessly.
        
               | wildrhythms wrote:
               | How does one 'set up' video acceleration and codecs?
        
               | guerrilla wrote:
               | I don't remember but I had to enable something in FF for
               | acceleration at one point and I assume you'd have to have
               | the right codecs installed. This is on Arch Linux.
        
           | mmwelt wrote:
           | I'm not the person you were replying to, but a few broken
           | sites I've noticed are:                   web.skype.com
           | Jitsi Meet (https://meet.jit.si/) -- apparently no support
           | for insertable streams         stuff.co.nz from outside NZ
        
             | aembleton wrote:
             | I don't have a Microsoft account so couldn't try
             | web.skype..com. Not sure what insertable streams are.
             | 
             | I tried stuff.co.nz from the UK and it looked like this:
             | https://imgur.com/a/tibMwHE
             | 
             | Articles loaded fine; I'm not sure what is broken about it.
        
           | zonotope wrote:
           | I use firefox and don't see broken sites per se, but there
           | are many sites where performance, especially js performance,
           | suffers. Gmail and other Google sites are sluggish for
           | example, as well as Amazon. It sometimes takes a _minute_
           | after visiting amazon.com for their js to initialize and I
           | can begin to interact with the site. This is not the case for
           | chromium. I stick with firefox because of multi-account
           | containers, a mobile app that I can add adblockers to, and
           | multi-device sync that works well with linux and android, but
           | performance lags and it 's getting worse.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | zelphirkalt wrote:
             | Google sites have long been suspected to do things
             | intentionally in a way that is only optimizing for
             | Chrom(e/ium), maybe even intentionally slow on other
             | browsers, which is mostly Firefox. No surprise there at
             | all.
             | 
             | However I do not see this stuff about JS init to take that
             | long on amazon. It might be a special thing in your case.
             | Did you try things like a new profile, to test, whether it
             | still happens?
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | It's not so much "intentionally broken on Firefox" as it
               | is "between adding features and debugging Firefox
               | performance issues, one gets you promoted and one
               | doesn't." Because the former benefits all users and the
               | latter benefits about 5% of users at most.
               | 
               | The banal evil of neglect vs. intentional maliciousness.
        
               | beebeepka wrote:
               | That may be a small part of the truth but even a 12 year
               | old me wouldn't believe such a fairy tale to be the whole
               | reason.
               | 
               | MS also used to optimize DOS in ways that clearly hurt
               | their competitors. We've seen Intel aggressively optimize
               | their compiler to slow down AMD... I am sure people have
               | been "optimizing" in such ways for as long as there have
               | been people.
        
               | mattarm wrote:
               | I can agree that Google simply neglects Firefox
               | performance and features. I think this alone is enough to
               | explain why Google products work better on Chrome.
               | 
               | Are you saying that there are people at Google whose job
               | description is to tweak Google web products to perform
               | worse on Firefox, just so Chrome appears better in
               | comparison?
        
               | _dark_matter_ wrote:
               | It is not just suspected, all Firefox Android users are
               | served a different Google search experience than Chrome.
               | One that is much worse.
        
               | cpeterso wrote:
               | Firefox Android's can install the "Google Search Fixer"
               | add-on to request the full Google Search UI (by sending a
               | Chrome User-Agent string to google.com):
               | 
               | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/android/addon/google-
               | search...
        
               | dralley wrote:
               | It shouldn't be necessary.
        
             | lloeki wrote:
             | > a minute
             | 
             | Shot in the dark: sounds like a timeout in TCP, DNS, or
             | something like that.
        
           | enragedcacti wrote:
           | I most commonly find it during payment processing and other
           | spots where devs are trying to do fancy input validation or
           | styling in forms, especially on mobile. The most common issue
           | is that the the cursor isn't moved correctly when accounting
           | for automatically inserted spaces or hyphens and it can be
           | pretty much impossible to enter the correct numbers without
           | overwriting previous numbers. Autofill also generally fails
           | in these scenarios.
        
           | beej71 wrote:
           | I've seen a couple pages on CNBC where it would render the
           | content, then delete it all. (Like, the containing DOM
           | element was made empty.)
           | 
           | Disabling JS kept the content from vanishing.
           | 
           | Of course, this is almost certainly bad coding on the
           | website's side, and not the fault of Firefox. But it seems
           | like it's but getting the QA attention it needs from the site
           | owners.
        
           | RicoElectrico wrote:
           | asos.com did not work properly on FF until recently. Opening
           | some categories would yield an "oops" error. Seems it's fixed
           | in the latest release, but it goes to show how fucked up is
           | webdev if nobody from asos.com tested it with Firefox.
        
             | guerrilla wrote:
             | What... I've used it for years. Never seen this. Maybe it
             | was temporary.
        
               | RicoElectrico wrote:
               | It persisted for a few months. Probably it had to do with
               | PL locale, as they did not strip diacritics in category
               | names from URLs
               | 
               | Oh, and I did turn off uBlock Origin, for that matter.
        
               | guerrilla wrote:
               | Okay, I can see that being a thing. I've only used it in
               | Swedish and English.
        
           | supernovae wrote:
           | Fidelity's website is busted in firefox a lot of the time
        
           | twangist wrote:
           | time.com, pages simply didn't appear -- at least this was the
           | case in recent versions of FF, can't swear it's so in latest.
           | Other sites can lack "Search" buttons that appear in Chrome &
           | Safari, or their forms don't work in FF but do in other
           | browsers. It's a real problem.
        
           | almog wrote:
           | Gmail, other than being sluggish on FF, its browser history
           | (back button) is broken on Firefox (though gmail's keyboard
           | shortcuts still work).
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | I use this feature to stick it to them and never use logged
             | in Google properties from my main Firefox. I can discard
             | their cookies at will. I have a Chromium sandbox they can
             | track me in for Gmail.
        
           | TheLML wrote:
           | I've had problems when organizing online tournaments using
           | Challonge. I've had to switch to Chrome a few times to do
           | something, since it would regularly break in FF. Also their
           | support page requires you to enter a combination of keys to
           | reveal the email address: sadly this didn't work in FF, too.
           | I've had a few other problems over time, but none that I
           | remember off the top of my head. I've used FF for the past
           | 15+ years and don't usually mind small problems, though.
        
           | guerrilla wrote:
           | I still haven't found any except a local dating site that can
           | detect my ad blocker in Firefox but not Chrome. Every other
           | site that doesn't work in FF so far also doesn't work in
           | Chrome.
        
           | neogodless wrote:
           | HomeDepot.com often won't let me add things to cart. The past
           | couple months it has been working again, but there were a few
           | months where I couldn't.
           | 
           | This morning, I couldn't buy a key off cdkeys.com - tried two
           | totally different methods, email addresses, credit cards.
           | Didn't try a second browser yet but I'm not sure I am that
           | persistent...
           | 
           | A news site, I think the New Yorker, would only show the
           | first two paragraphs of an article but in other browsers,
           | would show the full article.
           | 
           | I don't log which sites break - if it's important I tend to
           | cave and open Edge for that site, do my business, and then go
           | back to Firefox for everything else. If it's less important,
           | I'll opt to just not to business with them. But I'm a grain
           | of sand so it doesn't make much difference.
           | 
           | Most sites just have really obnoxious CAPTCHA, often
           | requiring more than one "pick the things" but I don't know if
           | my experience is specific to Firefox.
        
             | lol768 wrote:
             | > HomeDepot.com often won't let me add things to cart. The
             | past couple months it has been working again, but there
             | were a few months where I couldn't.
             | 
             | I checked for webcompat issues matching this description
             | and couldn't find anyone reporting that adding items to the
             | cart didn't work.
             | 
             | I attempted to reproduce the issue myself, but HomeDepot
             | block visitors from my location.
             | 
             | > This morning, I couldn't buy a key off cdkeys.com - tried
             | two totally different methods, email addresses, credit
             | cards. Didn't try a second browser yet but I'm not sure I
             | am that persistent...
             | 
             | Can't reproduce, I was able to buy a CD Key ("Garfield Kart
             | - Furious Racing PC") at 28 May 2022, 16:51:52 BST using
             | Firefox 100.0.2 and a debit card.
             | 
             | > A news site, I think the New Yorker, would only show the
             | first two paragraphs of an article but in other browsers,
             | would show the full article.
             | 
             | Can't reproduce. Visiting
             | https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-baby-
             | formul... in Firefox shows me the exact same content as
             | when I use Chromium.
             | 
             | I'm not saying you've _not_ experienced these issues, but
             | they 're definitely not widespread and your post doesn't
             | give enough information to go on to diagnose if there's an
             | issue with Firefox or not.
             | 
             | The best thing you can do is report issues to the webcompat
             | project as and when you come across compatibility issues.
             | It takes about 20 seconds, less time than you probably
             | spent writing this comment.
        
               | CJefferson wrote:
               | What is the "webcompat project"? I just tried googling
               | for it and there were some articles about it, but no page
               | I could submit.
               | 
               | I can say I recently found I couldn't make a new account
               | at 'wise.com' in firefox (had to switch to chrome), and
               | an internal university website doesn't work in Firefox --
               | but of course, I can't share that page publicly, so
               | there's not a lot useful I can do with that.
        
               | lol768 wrote:
               | https://webcompat.com/
               | 
               | > but no page I could submit
               | 
               | Click the large "Report bug" button and you'll get to
               | https://webcompat.com/issues/new
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | > I'm not saying you've _not_ experienced these issues
               | 
               | It really sounds like you are. I hate these "Well did you
               | report it? I can't reproduce it. Did you rebuild in debug
               | mode and check the logs? Did you learn C++ and fix it?"
               | responses.
               | 
               | It's open source victim blaming.
        
             | saghm wrote:
             | > A news site, I think the New Yorker, would only show the
             | first two paragraphs of an article but in other browsers,
             | would show the full article.
             | 
             | Sorry if this is a silly question, but is this maybe just
             | the paywall? I'm not sure if you've been reading more
             | articles on Firefox and then only opened on Chrome or
             | something after this started happening, but it sounds like
             | that could be what's going on.
        
           | PascLeRasc wrote:
           | Fidelity won't let me log in on Firefox. I've tried
           | everything anyone has to suggest, and I don't care anymore
           | because I moved to Vanguard instead.
        
         | splatcollision wrote:
         | I just discovered the "share" item in the tab contextual menu
         | includes AirDrop (on mac naturally) and while this doesn't help
         | you, I was always copying and pasting a site between firefox
         | and safari in order to send it to my iPhone, and was previously
         | frustrated that I couldn't hit the airdrop function from
         | firefox directly Thanks, your comment made me look for it!
        
         | hollerith wrote:
         | Google Chrome for iOS (well, iPadOS to be precise) will send a
         | web page (not a tab) to desktop Chrome. I know because I do it
         | regularly. The disadvantage of that app is that it lets through
         | most ads blocked by the combination of Safari and the ad
         | blocker Wipr (and I have not bothered to look for an ad blocker
         | that works better with Chrome on iPadOS) with the result that I
         | do most of my iOS browsing in Safari, which means that before I
         | can send a page to my desktop, I usually need to "send" it to
         | the Chrome app, which requires 3 taps, the first of which is a
         | tap on the "share" button near the top right corner of the
         | Safari app. But even with those 3 taps, it ends up being an
         | easier method than the method that begins with my using the
         | same "share" button to mail the page's URL to myself.
         | 
         | I also send pages in the opposite direction.
        
         | rusk wrote:
         | > send a tab to/from iOS and my Linux desktop
         | 
         | This was actually the killer feature for me on chrome about 5
         | years ago and then Google did what Google did, and killed it.
        
         | TekMol wrote:
         | finding a cool article while I'm sitting         on the couch
         | and sending it to my desktop so         I can read it later
         | 
         | Isn't that just a link?
         | 
         | I solve this by having a list of links on the web that I can
         | access from everywhere.
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | Or you know, just drag the url to the desktop.
           | 
           | I'm more concerned with Firefox's lack of per-tab screenshare
           | in meet/jitsi/etc.
        
             | sph wrote:
             | Please show me how to drag a url from my phone to my Linux
             | desktop.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | Wait, and how is Firefox capable of doing that?
        
               | alpaca128 wrote:
               | With an online account that syncs the Firefox profile
               | across all devices. And part of that is the ability to
               | send a link to a specific device, which will then
               | automatically load that URL in a new tab.
        
               | moffkalast wrote:
               | Sounds a bit counterproductive if privacy is your goal
               | isn't it? Why would you be signed into your browser.
        
           | sph wrote:
           | It's that curlftpfs Dropbox comment again.
           | 
           | It takes 20x as much time and work to copy a link, context
           | switch to another app, paste, then, when you're on the
           | desktop, _remember_ to check that shared document, and open
           | the link, than to just press option menu, send tab, choose
           | linux desktop and bam!, it's there as soon as you open your
           | browser the next day.
        
           | kwhitefoot wrote:
           | Firefox can share history and bookmarks with other instances
           | running on other machines even if the other is not running at
           | the time and you don't need to do anything to make it happen
           | once you have set it up.
        
         | alduin32 wrote:
         | > Our only hope is Mozilla takes their head out of their arse
         | and start working on their browser instead of faffing about and
         | making small, meaningless changes every release, but I don't
         | see that happening any time soon.
         | 
         | Tab syncing is a small meaningless change to me, but not to
         | you. Some of these things you find small and meaningless could
         | be important to some other people (for example, multilingual
         | spell-checking is very important to some people, X11 isolation
         | is very important to some others).
         | 
         | What do you actually expect from Mozilla by "taking their head
         | out of their arse" ?
        
           | sph wrote:
           | > What do you actually expect from Mozilla by "taking their
           | head out of their arse" ?
           | 
           | Investing in their browser. Investing in an alternative
           | ecosystem.
           | 
           | Brave have added in-browser Torrent, TOR, IPFS support.
           | That's what I would expect from Mozilla, trying to
           | differentiate itself. Now we've lost the compact UI, got
           | coloured themes for one release. What's cooking that's really
           | exciting? What's the plan to retake some of the lost market
           | share? I can't see any thirst to improve over there.
        
             | robonerd wrote:
             | > _Brave have added in-browser Torrent_
             | 
             | Useless bloat. Dedicated torrent clients are made better
             | and work better.
             | 
             | > _TOR_
             | 
             | Interesting, but the popular advice is to only use the Tor
             | Browser. I don't know if that's good advice or not, but it
             | certainly dampens my enthusiasm for Brave supporting Tor.
             | 
             | > _IPFS support._
             | 
             | When I actually find a real use for IPFS, then I'll be able
             | to form an opinion on it. Until then, it's just an obscure
             | novelty to me. What can I actually do with it? Torrents and
             | traditional websites together work for
             | downloading/hosting/sharing anything I can think of.
        
             | pvinis wrote:
             | Hard disagree. I don't want Tor and torrents and email and
             | other crapware on my browser. And not on my Firefox. It
             | already has too much of that with pocket. They can focus on
             | the engine and the UI. Leave useless stuff as separate
             | applications.
        
         | stragies wrote:
         | The super-annoying thing about that, is that you need a Sync-
         | Server, and an "Identity" server to run this all without having
         | sign in to "Firefox Sync".
         | 
         | The sync-server is trivial to run via docker, but (last time i
         | checked) running the other essential part yourself is
         | (intentionally?) not easy at all.
        
           | robin_reala wrote:
           | Mozilla really can't win can they? They're the only browser
           | company that even attempts to provide the ability to run your
           | own syncing service, and yet the insinuation is that they're
           | going out of their way to make it difficult.
        
             | whywhywhywhy wrote:
             | Turns out the sum of something's value isn't just what it
             | can do but how easy it is to make it do the thing is claims
             | to do.
        
               | stragies wrote:
               | I'm not sure, that can be stated as fact, but for this
               | subtopic (How to run all FXA and syncserver selfhosted)
               | the docs make it sound easy to deploy/run. As expected,
               | after all, the featureset needed isn't huge for "Maintain
               | a list of tabs per browsers per User, authenticated via
               | some backend plugin for the syncserver". But then you
               | read, that you need to run half a dozen "fxa-something"
               | servers, in addition to the SyncServer. And a clear
               | writeup of those is what I briefly check for every few
               | months, but haven't found yet.
        
             | stragies wrote:
             | to be clear, by "intentionally" I meant, that I could
             | understand, if it were a business decision to allocate
             | less/no developer time to making the "100% self-
             | hosted"-option very attractive/documented/easy. I did not
             | mean to insinuate intentional hurdle-introductions via
             | code, or some-such.
        
           | andrepd wrote:
           | Is this serious? Your criciticism is that... they offer their
           | service _and_ the possibility to self-host?
        
             | stragies wrote:
             | No, I meant, they make it look like you could do this all
             | easily without external clouds, but then the Identity-
             | server, which I cannot imagine to be much more complicated
             | w.r.t. functionality that e.g. a Samba4 AD-DC, is/was(last
             | time i checked) basically undocumented and looked
             | intentionally overbuilt (again, comparing with e.g.
             | Samba4-AD). And not open-source (iirc). Also, why can't I
             | use a standard Directory Server, instead of their home-
             | built one-off-solution?
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | The Firefox Sync Storage source code, licensed under
               | MPL-2.0 and fully documented, is right here:
               | 
               | https://github.com/mozilla-services/syncstorage-rs
               | 
               | It includes a Docker Compose setup.
               | 
               | Standard directory servers aren't specifically built for
               | end-to-end encryption, while data in Firefox Sync is end-
               | to-end encrypted by default. Firefox Sync must also scale
               | to support the millions of Firefox users who use
               | Mozilla's instance.
        
               | stragies wrote:
               | Hi, thanks for replying with information. You seem to
               | more than me about the current situation, i'm happy to
               | learn more.
               | 
               | So the above (synstorage-rs_in_container) is now the only
               | required software needed, and now includes the identity-
               | server portion?
               | 
               | I would really like to use the "beam-a-tab-to-some-other-
               | firefox", been a FF user since before it got that name.
               | But i wanted to self-host all parts, and then found some
               | info, that suggested, that 2 parts are needed: the
               | SyncServer, the above open-source thing, and the
               | Identity-server, on which i did not find much info at the
               | time.
               | 
               | Do you have a link to recent-ish write-up of the current
               | situation, that you can validate to be correct-ish?
               | 
               | Thanks again
               | 
               | Also, w.r.t Directory-Servers/Security: Enterprise
               | printers have been able to authenticate Users with
               | SSL/TLS-secured connection for more than a decade. So why
               | not a "syncserver for URLs of open tabs per User"?
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | I don't think Mozilla has a recent write-up (blog post)
               | about the Sync Server. The most recent one I found is an
               | announcement from 2020, which explains some of Mozilla's
               | motivations:
               | 
               | https://blog.mozilla.org/services/2020/09/15/the-future-
               | of-s...
               | 
               | But, as you mentioned, the current documentation is here:
               | 
               | https://mozilla-
               | services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run...
               | 
               | You might also find the unofficial Arch User Repository
               | package, comments, and PKGBUILD file helpful:
               | 
               | https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/firefox-syncstorage-
               | git
               | 
               | I hope it works out for you!
        
               | stragies wrote:
               | The syncserver is the trivial part. The less-well-
               | documented web of 5-8 fxa-yxzablgt services (FX-Account-
               | server) that you need to also run is the issue. The
               | docker github readme warns against anything but "messing
               | around" type usage, and the last update there was 7 years
               | ago. ( fxa-content-server fxa-profile-server fxa-auth-
               | server fxa-oauth-server browserid-verifier fxa-auth-db-
               | mysql )
        
               | kivlad wrote:
               | I've tried this before, and you're right about it not
               | being easy to follow, at least compared to previous
               | incarnations. The above documentation is for a much older
               | version, and the latest I found is here:
               | 
               | https://mozilla.github.io/ecosystem-
               | platform/tutorials/devel...
               | 
               | There's a lot of components directly hooked into Google
               | Cloud that also make it difficult in terms of
               | configuration. At some point I think creating an actual
               | user's guide for this would be good for the community
               | interested in self-hosting this on their own.
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | Vivaldi is another browser I kind of like, made by the former
         | CTO of Opera.
        
         | jacooper wrote:
         | You can already do this on brave, with brave sync enabled.
        
           | sph wrote:
           | No you can't. I have sync enabled everywhere, and there's no
           | send tab option anywhere on iOS. Either that or I'm blind.
        
         | Beta-7 wrote:
         | >send a tab to/from iOS and my Linux desktop
         | 
         | Have you tried KDEconnect? I use it to share/send links from
         | Android to Linux and vice versa with the KDEconnect browser
         | extension.
        
         | lol768 wrote:
         | > I'm starting to see broken sites
         | 
         | > Our only hope is Mozilla takes their head out of their arse
         | and start working on their browser
         | 
         | Are you reporting these to the webcompat project? Mozilla is
         | absolutely funding QA testers and engineers to check what's
         | broken and triage issues that affect specific browsers and not
         | others.
         | 
         | They've handled 103k issues: https://github.com/webcompat/web-
         | bugs/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is...
         | 
         | A great number of the issues that Mozilla contractors and
         | employees investigate that are reported via the webcompat
         | project actually turn out to be the site owner's fault. They're
         | not using standardised web technologies, not testing their work
         | in multiple browsers. Mozilla employees and contractors will
         | try to perform outreach to these site owners, but they're often
         | not interested.
        
           | paulryanrogers wrote:
           | There's no easy answer here short of governments forcing a
           | browser ballot on new computers. Regular people just don't
           | care enough if the web devolves into a monoculture. And
           | businesses don't want to use standards when it's easier to
           | just do whatever works in Blink.
        
         | MasterYoda wrote:
         | Every time something is broken for me on a site it is because
         | of an addon/extension, not because of Firefox. I beleave
         | Firefox get much blame for broken sites when it actually is an
         | addon that the user installed which is to blame.
         | 
         | I even have some vague recollection of Mozilla mentioning just
         | this. Like 99% when something is broken it not because the
         | browser but because some addon the user installed.
         | 
         | So test a site that you dont think works with the "troubleshoot
         | mode" in Firefox that inactivate addons etc to see if it works
         | then. And if it works, then figure out which addon it is that
         | makes the mess and to blame.
        
           | jordemort wrote:
           | This matches my experience - it's not Firefox that's getting
           | worse, but I'm encountering more and more sites that don't
           | function correctly when uBlock Origin is enabled. Whenever I
           | run into a site seems busted, I disable uBlock, reload, and
           | suddenly everything works. I'm not sure if the filters I'm
           | using are getting worse or if the JS on the sites I'm
           | visiting is.
           | 
           | I used to use Decentraleyes but I ended up uninstalling that
           | completely because it broke so many sites.
        
       | pvinis wrote:
       | I know it's blasphemy, but! what would a firefox with
       | WebKit/blink look and feel like?
       | 
       | would we want that? in a future that we are officially a
       | monoculture, would we prefer no firefox, or a traitor firefox?
        
       | rkk3 wrote:
       | I wanted to switch to Firefox, but gave up because it kept
       | hanging on me with only a couple of tabs open.
        
       | lordnacho wrote:
       | Tree style tabs is what brought me over. I have dozens of tabs I
       | want to keep an eye on, without necessarily having them actually
       | open and loaded. Kinda like bookmarks but quickly available.
       | There's no way to arrange that many tabs across the top, so a bit
       | of CSS magic removes the top tabs. With modern screens being so
       | wide it makes sense to just have them vertically, in a tree.
        
       | andyjohnson0 wrote:
       | Firefox user for about five years and very satisfied with it.
       | 
       | Firefox's multi account containers are very useful - when I
       | started using them a few years ago I very quickly noticed that my
       | Web searches stopped showing up in Amazon or as FB ads, and vice
       | versa.
       | 
       | And just generally not using a browser that is aligned with the
       | interests of a global advertising company seems like a good
       | thing.
        
       | XorNot wrote:
       | I've been using Firefox on all my devices for years now, and I am
       | _never_ stopping. Google sells you ads: Chrome is _how_ Google
       | shows you ads and gets your data.
       | 
       | If you believe in a privacy respecting, open web where users own
       | their own devices then you have choices other then Firefox - but
       | nobody should be using Chrome.
        
       | hn_user145 wrote:
       | The only thing missing on Firefox for me is the ability to
       | translate websites inline.
       | 
       | Otherwise Firefox+ multi-account containers + proxy per container
       | is a really nice feature
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | That is exactly why I no longer use Firefox. I moved to germany
         | and I don't speak german, so you can imagine browsing without
         | this functionality is impossible.
        
         | lionkor wrote:
         | there is an addon which integrates very cleanly, they should
         | just merge that into the browser
        
           | kevincox wrote:
           | For me it is rare enough that I just paste the URL into
           | Google translate manually.
        
       | bachmeier wrote:
       | I've used Firefox as my main browser since it was called Phoenix.
       | Never had a reason to change. When I have to use Chrome (as right
       | now on this Chromebook) I'm not a fan because of the lack of a
       | built-in reader view button. That's a critical part of my web
       | usage due to the small fonts used on many sites. The extensions
       | providing this functionality for Chrome just aren't as good IMO.
       | 
       | There is a recent development that might get me to switch to
       | Chrome after this long. Chrome-based browsers will give apps
       | access to the local filesystem. The Firefox team has said you
       | can't do that safely because users don't understand the concept
       | of a file. Using Chrome, I can for instance go to the Logseq
       | website, click the button to give access to that directory, and
       | start writing. No signing in, no need to store my data in the
       | cloud. It's so nice to be able to avoid the cloud - but only
       | using Chrome.
        
       | Sloppy wrote:
       | Add VPN, TOR support, private search, IPFS, etc. and maybe Brave
       | is a better choice.
        
       | d_sc wrote:
       | I really like Firefox but have recently started using Edge a lot
       | more because Firefox is unable to do virtual backgrounds in
       | Google Meet. At first I tried to run 2 browsers, Edge for
       | meetings and Firefox for everything else but that got cumbersome
       | and frustrating. Clicking into a meeting invite would open in the
       | wrong browser (if FF was the default browser) or constantly
       | copying & pasting links to open them in FF.
       | 
       | I was hoping Camo would eventually add in virtual backgrounds to
       | their app but it hasn't happened yet. Would love to ditch
       | Edge/Chromium.
        
         | mark_l_watson wrote:
         | Question: how good is Edge privacy wise? Microsoft doesn't make
         | their big money selling advertising targeting services, right?
         | I noticed that Edge is even available on iOS.
        
           | MacsHeadroom wrote:
           | Edge is worse for privacy than Chrome. Even edge "private"
           | browsing mode is significantly less private than Chrome's
           | private browsing. It's one of the worst browsers for privacy.
           | 
           | Edge makes lots of calls to Bing for advertising purposes.
        
             | mark_l_watson wrote:
             | Thanks.
        
           | dopa42365 wrote:
           | Assuming you use ublock origin, does it really matter? For
           | all intents and purposes, whatever data is collected is
           | absolutely worthless.
        
       | trinovantes wrote:
       | Why I originally switched to Firefox: I can use dividers in my
       | bookmarks
        
       | BlueTemplar wrote:
       | I'm using Mozilla Firefox, but it annoys me how it has no support
       | for what is probably the least bad digital document format :
       | MHTML = EML... even though Mozilla Thunderbird does support it !
        
       | icare_1er wrote:
       | Avoiding a Google monopoly is a good-enough reason.
        
       | narag wrote:
       | I've always used "Firefox", since it was called Netscape 2.4. I
       | use Chrome to watch streaming and a few sites that don't work
       | with Firefox.
       | 
       | That said, I might start using Chromium because I want to make
       | some improvements to the browser (to use it as a tool) that would
       | need me to compile the browser myself.
       | 
       | As far as I know, Firefox is no longer just C/C++ but it's
       | migrating, at least partially, to Rust, so it's a moving target.
        
       | blackhaz wrote:
       | Here's one more: It's not Google.
        
         | timerol wrote:
         | > Ask current Firefox users why they switched, and you'll often
         | hear "It's not Chrome."
         | 
         | Pretty sure they covered that in the last reason of TFA
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | It was my primary reason to drop Chrome twelve years ago. Every
         | so often I try Chrome again, but other than a minor speed
         | boost, I see no reason to switch back.
         | 
         | The UI isn't great, nor is resource usage. These days I don't
         | bother installing an alternative browser and just use Safari.
        
         | stackbutterflow wrote:
         | Same reason for me. Firefox would have to be utterly broken for
         | me to switch to chrome.
        
       | hosteur wrote:
       | I would really love to use Firefox Sync. But I don't want all my
       | browsing history at Mozilla. Is it possible to run self-hosted
       | Sync?
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | Sync is E2E encrypted, so while Mozilla host an encrypted file
         | they don't have access to your data.
         | 
         | (yes, it's also possible to run your own sync service.)
        
           | hosteur wrote:
           | Is it though? I have not been able to find any official up-
           | to-date docs on it. The Github README says that it is no
           | longer maintained: https://github.com/mozilla-
           | services/syncserver
        
       | slurpmaker wrote:
       | Anything has more privacy than a google product. Firefox/mozilla
       | at least have products adjacent to their browser so its
       | believable they aren't only sustaining by selling peoples
       | personal information to the nearest data broker.
        
       | blahbon wrote:
       | Firefox is lacking many major enterprise controls making it
       | unsuitable for many large companies. An example of this is the
       | lack of ability for administrators to apply additional
       | restrictions on the domains specific extensions can access. Other
       | basic enterprise features that are missing are the inability to
       | force restarts when updates are available.
        
       | lawgimenez wrote:
       | Funny, I've done the opposite. Firefox has always been my default
       | as far as I can remember but for the past several releases it has
       | been heavy in terms of macOS memory. The author is obviously
       | using Windows, but on macOS it is the opposite. Every startup,
       | Firefox seems to throttle my MBP fans and will get sluggish as I
       | keep on using it.
        
         | cyber_kinetist wrote:
         | Same for me too (I'm using Windows), I've moved on to Chrome
         | because of annoying performance issues with Firefox. Much
         | better in that area after switching , although I still miss
         | Tree Style Tabs sometimes... (you can't find a replacement for
         | that in Chrome)
        
       | amazd wrote:
       | This extension right here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
       | US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...
        
         | nashashmi wrote:
         | Or this one https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-
         | sidebar-w...
        
       | butz wrote:
       | Ability to customize browser UI should not be overlooked either,
       | especially in the day when application rarely allow user to
       | rearrange controls in toolbar. And if you want to go deeper there
       | still is "userChrome.css" file, where you can change how Firefox
       | UI looks by editing simple CSS file.
        
       | pebble wrote:
       | I keep trying to switch to Firefox but I use canvas a lot in my
       | work and canvas is so much slower compared to Chrome it keeps
       | being a dealbreaker.
        
       | vi2837 wrote:
       | Firefox is the best
        
       | yonrg wrote:
       | Firefox plugin ftw: tridactyl
       | 
       | I love this so much. Perfect vim key binds. I also removed menu,
       | address and tab bars, which subjectively occupy 25% of vertical
       | space.
       | 
       | And the infamous ublock, but that's also available on
       | Chrome(ium).
        
         | gurjeet wrote:
         | I'm a fan of Vimium [1]. Do you know of any advantages
         | Tridactyl may have over Vimium?
         | 
         | [1]: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/vimium-ff/
        
       | hnlmorg wrote:
       | FireFox Containers are a killer feature for me. It allows you to
       | run sandboxed sessions. So you can ostensibly make every site a
       | private tab by default but have a small few sites persistent.
       | 
       | Eg I'll have a work group with GitHub, Okta, etc in it so I only
       | need to log in once a day. But random websites cannot track me
       | between sites.
       | 
       | Couple that with DNS blocking of trackers and ads, and the web is
       | actually a lot more pleasant to use.
       | 
       | Unfortunately you cannot fix everything locally though.
        
         | rsync wrote:
         | "FireFox Containers are a killer feature for me ..."
         | 
         | They are a killer _idea_ but their implementation is
         | disappointing.
         | 
         | In no particular order ...
         | 
         | - You can't clear history for a particular container space [1]
         | 
         | - Containers are _only tabs_ - so you can 't, for instance,
         | create a window and have all future tabs created in that window
         | inherit that container
         | 
         | - No "private" (or "burner") container that saves nothing
         | outside of each individual tab
         | 
         | No, I am not interested in solving these basic, first-order
         | use-cases with some rando extension from joey75 @
         | gitlabusercontent.downloads.tv.
         | 
         | [1] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1170863
        
         | detritus wrote:
         | I'm a big fan of multi-account containers.. or at least, was.
         | Recently I inadvertantly added a domain to one of the ascribed
         | containers on my laptop and I'll be damned if I can work out
         | how to undo it, other than uninstalling and starting over,
         | which'll be a pain, because I've customised it quite a bit.
         | 
         | ...This is a plea for help, by the way, in case it wasn't
         | obvious :) I'm sure there must be a json file or something,
         | somewhere, I can just edit.
        
           | sebazzz wrote:
           | When visiting the domain, open the container menu by clicking
           | the icon and uncheck "always open in this container".
        
             | detritus wrote:
             | Yeah, that's the most immediate thing to try, but
             | unfortunately, that doesn't work for some reason.
        
           | zelphirkalt wrote:
           | I do not know how to directly manipulate the container, but I
           | think what you can do is, that you open a new tab of another
           | container and copy paste the URL there. Then you can set it
           | to always open the domain in that container, effectively
           | changing the container. Not sure how to remove a domain from
           | all containers though.
        
           | stinos wrote:
           | _because I 've customised it quite a bit_
           | 
           | Can this not (at least partly) solved by copying over the
           | correct files in combination with settings sync?
        
           | andinus wrote:
           | Multi-Accounts Container Version: 8.0.7
           | 
           | You can click on "Manage Containers", choose a container and
           | then remove the site with "Manage Site List".
        
             | detritus wrote:
             | Oh Gosh, I feel so stupid - that's exactly what I was
             | looking for.. please tell me they just added that this
             | morning? I know they didn't..!
        
               | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
               | There is no reason to feel stupid. Browser containers are
               | tricky and relatively new, and I was bitten by some
               | quirks, too. Nevertheless, they're definitely worth it.
        
               | was_a_dev wrote:
               | It also indicates the need for better UX design, which
               | for a relatively new features isn't surprising
        
               | Accacin wrote:
               | Not stupid, I also accidentally added something to the
               | wrong container and it took me a while and some searching
               | to find the answer. The feature is great, but the UX is
               | still a little lacking.
        
         | nfbyte wrote:
         | You can also set a proxy per container (and assign specific
         | websites to always use it), and when you combine that with an
         | ultra-cheap VPS running e.g. a Shadowsocks server you have what
         | I think is the _real_ way to circumvent censorship and bypass
         | regional restrictions (as opposed to using snake oil  "VPN"
         | providers or even the Tor Browser).
        
           | mark_l_watson wrote:
           | Are most VPN provides unreliable? I don't know - never
           | researched this.
           | 
           | I use Proton VPN because it is bundled with ProtonMail. I
           | very much like preventing my national Internet service
           | provider from selling my browsing history.
        
             | toma_caliente wrote:
             | Most VPN providers you typically see pushed are very
             | suspect at best. Especially the ones you see commonly
             | pushed by Youtubers like NordVPN, ExpressVPN etc. I think
             | the only VPNs that have actually been externally audited
             | are Mullvad and ProtonVPN.
        
               | kdbg wrote:
               | Funnily, both ExpressVPN and NordVPN which you call out
               | have been externally audited.
               | 
               | NordVPN had the clients audited by VerSprite last year,
               | and their No-log policy audited by PwC in 2018 and 2020.
               | And a bug bounty program on HackerOne. [1]
               | 
               | ExpressVPN - Windows Client was just audited by F-Secure
               | in March, and server side audits by Cure54, and PwC in
               | 2021 and 2019 respectively. And a bug bounty program on
               | Bug Crowd. [2]
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | For comparison
               | 
               | Mullvad has been audited (Client security and
               | Infrastructure (for privacy)) by Cure53 through 2020, and
               | first was in 2018. Has no bug bounty, but they do still
               | have a vulnerability disclosure program. [3]
               | 
               | ProtonVPN, audits of the no-log policy in April, and
               | clients in 2020. And they run their own bug bounty
               | program.[4]
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | I actually find it kinda interesting that while they've
               | all had audits regarding privacy on the server side, only
               | ExpressVPN has had a security audit of server side
               | components. (Granted I've not look that deeply at this)
               | 
               | [1] Annoying, you can only download the audit reports if
               | you Login then click Reports in the menu
               | 
               | [2] https://www.expressvpn.com/blog/?s=audit
               | 
               | [3] https://mullvad.net/en/blog/tag/audits/
               | 
               | [4] https://protonvpn.com/blog/?s=audit
        
               | robonerd wrote:
               | > _Most VPN providers you typically see pushed are very
               | suspect at best._
               | 
               | Ironically (I hope?), Mullvad is by far the one I see
               | pushed the most.
        
               | stsourlidakis wrote:
               | I don't think I've ever seen a Mullvad ad or paid
               | promotion (eg sponsored YT videos). I mostly see happy
               | customers praising them (including myself).
        
               | robonerd wrote:
               | Between sponsorblock and ublock origin, I never see ads
               | or paid promotions on youtube or any other website like
               | that. That mostly leaves [presumably] unpaid promotion of
               | Mullvad on sites like HN.
        
               | barbacoa wrote:
               | What's is the concern about VPNs being "suspect" or
               | "reliable"? I hear this a lot about VPN providers but not
               | sure why. If the VPN is logging your activity/IP you'd
               | have to be doing something super illegal for the police
               | to want to get a search warrant for your data.
        
               | nfbyte wrote:
               | It's not just that they're suspect or unreliable. They're
               | complete bullshit.
               | 
               | The actual use of VPN technology is to create virtual
               | networks that are private (hence the name). It's a system
               | level technology. There are several types of network
               | topologies you can set up, when I was learning about this
               | I found this article which is quite nice:
               | https://www.procustodibus.com/blog/2020/10/wireguard-
               | topolog.... You _can_ proxy traffic through a VPN, but
               | the only scenario I can think of in which it makes sense
               | is if you are an OSINT researcher and you need a safe
               | system on which to conduct your research.
               | 
               | If you need to _proxy_ traffic and  "hide" your IP, just
               | use a flipping proxy. It's an application level
               | technology (e.g. for torrenting, every torrent client
               | under the sun supports a SOCKS5 proxy). If you don't have
               | the patience to set up a VPS yourself, you can even use
               | something like Outline (https://getoutline.org) which
               | automates that (and it has a mobile client app as well).
               | 
               | If you need privacy (and to _actually_ hide your IP),
               | then use Tor.
        
               | selectodude wrote:
               | Unfortunately that doesn't fix the real reason most
               | people use VPNs, which is torrenting. Nobody should be
               | using NordVPN to hide from a nation state, but for
               | torrenting they add one level of obfuscation.
        
               | nfbyte wrote:
               | I specifically mentioned torrenting, please re-read.
               | There is no reason to have _all_ the network I /O of your
               | computer go through an extra hop just for one application
               | (e.g. a torrent client) when that application can be
               | configured to use a proxy instead. It increases the
               | network latency, complexity and attack surface of your
               | system.
        
               | barbacoa wrote:
               | If the main use case is torrents,
               | 
               | I think the reason why the method you mention isn't
               | commonly used is that it is complicated to understand/set
               | up and hard to verify.
               | 
               | I've seen more advanced users encapsulate everything in a
               | VM so that non-VPN traffic can be blocked globally by the
               | OS.
        
               | SnowHill9902 wrote:
               | As always, the answer is it depends on your threat model.
        
             | qwertyuiop_ wrote:
             | Mulvad seems to be very reliable.
             | 
             | https://mullvad.net/en/
        
         | yalogin wrote:
         | I don't get why random websites cannot track you across sites.
         | The IP is still the same and so is the hardware/OS combination
         | it's running on. They can absolutely track you.
        
           | MacsHeadroom wrote:
           | Use a different SOCKS proxy for each container.
        
         | pmoriarty wrote:
         | _" random websites cannot track me between sites"_
         | 
         | Given all the ways there are to fingerprint browsers these
         | days, this belief is likely to be overly optimistic.
        
         | timvisee wrote:
         | I use it for personal, company and other sessions in the same
         | window, to authenticate with different credentials on the same
         | sites. It's fantastic!
        
         | eliaspro wrote:
         | A crucial feature which is missing for me in containers is the
         | ability to limit AddOns to specific containers.
         | 
         | My employer's org deploys a Microsoft SSO AddOn which re-uses
         | the OS-level identity to auto-login to
         | Microsoft/Office365/Azure and causes me quite some headaches
         | when dealing with my customers' logins, which are usually in
         | separate containers.
         | 
         | I switched to FF profiles for those use-cases for now, but it's
         | far from the container experience in terms of usability and
         | integration.
        
         | thrwawy283 wrote:
         | That + the Temporary Containers extension can make every new
         | tab a new container by default. I also use Container Proxy so I
         | can route traffic from each tab through a different proxy if
         | needed (mitmproxy). I've wanted to go to Chrome but Chrome has
         | nothing like per-tab sessions/isolation. I looked at first
         | party isolation but it's vague and doesn't seem like what
         | Firefox provides.
         | 
         | Firefox is the only browser that can do this. Also Google's UI
         | decisions are just unilateral and awful. At least with Firefox
         | we can still tweak some of it.
        
         | dools wrote:
         | The ability to have separate sessions was actually the reason I
         | switched to chrome many years ago, looks like it's time to give
         | Firefox another look
        
           | zelphirkalt wrote:
           | Although Firefox had profiles for ages and you could start
           | Firefox with the profile manager and "new instance allowed"
           | to choose a profile at the start of each new instance. More
           | hidden then in Chromium, but definitely possible.
           | 
           | EDIT: Just for completeness sake, here is the command to open
           | Firefox with profile manager and new instances:
           | 
           | firefox --new-instance --ProfileManager %u
        
             | commoner wrote:
             | The Firefox Profile Switcher add-on provides an easy-to-use
             | interface that looks just like Chrome's:
             | 
             | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/profile-
             | switc...
             | 
             | You'll need to install a connector for it to work. (The
             | add-on gives instructions during the onboarding process.)
             | Both the add-on and the connector are free and open source
             | (GPLv3).
             | 
             | I use profiles and containers together on Firefox. Each
             | profile has its own set of add-ons, browser settings, and
             | containers. Containers in the same profile share the same
             | add-ons and browser settings. For example, you could have
             | separate personal and work profiles, with containers for
             | different online accounts in each profile.
             | 
             | On Firefox, you have the option of using only profiles,
             | only containers, both profiles and containers, or none of
             | the above.
        
               | cmg wrote:
               | I'm going to have to give this a try. I manage multiple
               | Google Workspace accounts for clients and have stuck to
               | Chrome for those as I have a profile set up for each
               | account. Yes, you can log in to multiple Google accounts
               | in any browser, but then it defaults to the first account
               | for new windows.
               | 
               | The two final things that would get me off Chrome
               | entirely:
               | 
               | * When I'm using my external USB microphone in a web-
               | based conference system (mostly Cleanfeed but I've also
               | seen it with Streamyard and Jitsi) my audio gets
               | extremely robotic after a few minutes and it somehow
               | impacts my entire system - I have to unplug the
               | microphone to fix it.
               | 
               | * Dropbox, for some reason, hangs at 1 second left when
               | uploading larger files (appx 60MB or so)
        
               | chiefalchemist wrote:
               | I've been looking for something like that. Thanks. But
               | ideally, I don't want to swithswitch profiles. I want to
               | have muliple instances of FF open, each with a different
               | profile. Just like Chromium based browsers and users.
               | 
               | Anything for that?
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | When you choose a different profile in the Firefox
               | Profile Switcher menu, it opens a new instance of Firefox
               | with the new profile. The add-on experience will be very
               | familiar if you've used Chromium's profile management
               | features.
               | 
               | If you're trying to create a shortcut to Firefox that
               | launches a profile other than the one you've selected as
               | the default, the instructions for Linux and Windows are
               | here:
               | 
               | https://kb.mozillazine.org/Shortcut_to_a_specific_profile
               | 
               | This is not necessary to use the profile feature, but
               | some people prefer to launch profiles from shortcuts
               | instead of a menu.
        
               | fsflover wrote:
               | This is how I use Firefox; you need Qubes OS for that.
        
               | lukewiwa wrote:
               | go to about:profiles in the omnibar and you'll be able to
               | open multiple profiles from there. You can also do other
               | general management of profiles.
        
             | jordemort wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure the profile manager stuff in Firefox goes
             | all the way back to the Netscape 4 days. If I recall
             | correctly, back in the way back, it used to throw you into
             | Profile Manager and walk you through creating your initial
             | one on first launch of fresh installs. At some point they
             | tucked that under the rug and just started creating the
             | default profile automatically - maybe because it made less
             | sense to ask for a bunch of personal information up-front
             | when the browser was broken off from the mail client? Now
             | most people have forgotten that Profile Manager even
             | exists, but it's been there the whole time.
        
               | johnny22 wrote:
               | my parents rely on Profile Manager. I set that up for
               | them years ago, since my mom uses my dad's computer a bit
               | every day. She has no need for a whole user account.
               | Separating the stuff in the browser is enough.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | Yes, but with this UX it may as well not exist for 99% of
             | users. Container tabs while still a little power-user is
             | something that can be explained to the average user.
        
               | anonymousab wrote:
               | One of the major problems with container tabs is that
               | they share a lot of persistent state between them, such
               | as browsing history. Profiles are mostly isolated by
               | comparison.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | I hope you become a full time user, lets curb the direction
           | Google wants to go in.
        
             | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
             | Even if the entire HN community would switch to Firefox, it
             | would still be a drop in the ocean to curbing Chrome's
             | market share.
             | 
             | Also Firefox hasn't been doing itself any favors by
             | alienating both the average Joe consumers and the
             | professional devs over the years.
        
               | richardw wrote:
               | HN community represents a very attractive economic
               | segment. If we switched, advertisers and web designers
               | would pay attention. Firefox would instantly be getting
               | paid for our searches by Google.
        
               | skinnymuch wrote:
               | I don't think that's true. If the entire HN community
               | which I assume includes tons of casual weekly reading
               | non-logged in users, that would be massive. The number of
               | people outside HN who would try out FF again would be a
               | sizable multiple of the HN community.
               | 
               | If everyone thinks negatively, then no change will
               | happen. Keeping reality in perspective is important, but
               | improving things is really important too.
        
               | guerrilla wrote:
               | No it wouldn't, that's just pessimism. The entire HN
               | community switching would have massive second-order
               | effects. People would see experts (us) using it, we'd
               | promote it and install it for people, we'd speak
               | positively about it, we'd develop with it, etc. (I won't
               | write the whole list.)
        
               | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
               | Not only that. Every few weeks I come across a site that
               | works better in Chrome than in FF or has some quirks
               | (Google's spreadsheets are a good example - they feel
               | slower in FF). Although I have no hope of changing the
               | mindset of HNers working at Google, the rest of us could
               | make a difference.
        
               | dhimes wrote:
               | Yeah I hate that. I still have a problem seeing comments
               | on youtube in firefox, even when I'm logged in. Not sure
               | we're going to be able to fix if google targets their
               | properties to only their browser, outside of a lawsuit or
               | gov't action.
        
               | Kelm wrote:
               | I daily drive Firefox for a few years now, including
               | watching youtube - never faced your issue... Maybe a
               | misbehaving extension?
        
               | dhimes wrote:
               | Hmmm. I do have a few going. I'll have to check.
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | Can't say I've have any issues with comments in YouTube.
               | Not that I spend much time in the comments section but
               | when I do read the comments they always work fine.
               | 
               | Maybe the other commenter is on to something regarding
               | extensions. The only extensions I have are ones to
               | simplify management of containers, plus my password
               | manager.
        
               | rvba wrote:
               | What a coincidence that Google spreadsheets work better
               | in a Google browser than in another browser.
        
               | piaste wrote:
               | > People would see experts (us) using it, we'd promote it
               | and install it for people, we'd speak positively about
               | it, we'd develop with it, etc. (I won't write the whole
               | list.)
               | 
               | I wasn't super paying attention at the time, but wasn't
               | that basically how Firefox initially established itself
               | at the expense of Internet Explorer?
        
               | ByteJockey wrote:
               | Pretty much. People say that tech people switching
               | doesn't do anything, but when tech people switch, semi-
               | technical people get it via osmosis (forum posts for FF
               | the first time, presumably reddit posts today). Suddenly
               | when someone asks their friend that's slightly more
               | technical than them for a recommendation, they get
               | recommended the new thing instead of the old one.
               | 
               | Whole process takes a couple years or so.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | Then why is FF marketshare still tanking despite all the
               | techies hyping it?
        
               | mixmastamyk wrote:
               | Android and to some extent iOS, are the reason.
        
               | jordemort wrote:
               | All the techies aren't hyping it. Most people that I know
               | just use Chrome. My running joke whenever I see someone
               | else using it in a Zoom share or something is "found the
               | other Firefox user!"
        
               | stuartd wrote:
               | I remember installing Firefox (I think v0.7) for my
               | mother in law and giving it the IE icon.
        
               | swat535 wrote:
               | Well, on January 2023 when Chrome Manifest V3 is finally
               | deployed and Ublock Origin is killed, I bet many HNers
               | will finally switch:
               | 
               | https://developer.chrome.com/blog/mv2-transition/
               | 
               | Firefox maker, Mozilla, is in the uneasy position of
               | being financially dependent on its search deal with
               | Google, which accounts for the majority of the
               | organization's revenue.
               | 
               | I wonder how Google will be able to twist its arms (and
               | trust me, they will use all their power and abuse their
               | position to attempt it) to either implement V3 or find
               | some other way to kill ad blockers / allow ads on
               | Firefox.
        
               | prox wrote:
               | I wonder why they go with Google. Other companies are a
               | much better fit. Time to untangle themselves.
        
               | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
               | Because money.
        
               | dralley wrote:
               | They've implemented V3. What they're not doing is
               | removing support for V2, so plugins that want the full
               | access can do so.
        
         | heresie-dabord wrote:
         | The Mozilla focus on privacy is the _killer feature_ for me.
         | DNS encrypted         "Total Cookie Protection"         uBlock
         | Origin         multi-account containers
         | 
         | I also like                   built-in screen capture
         | *various other extensions, such as Copy All Tab URLs
         | 
         | I didn't find "Pocket" compelling when it was first introduced,
         | but I have since found some of the recommendations interesting.
         | 
         | Bravo Mozilla!
        
           | slenk wrote:
           | Pocket is the only reason I use LibreWolf - I don't trust its
           | integration and what parts I can actually disable
        
             | sp332 wrote:
             | What do you think Mozilla is doing with Pocket they
             | couldn't do with... the rest of the browser?
        
               | slenk wrote:
               | Sending data TO pocket...I already know I am sending data
               | to Mozilla
        
               | sp332 wrote:
               | Pocket was bought by the Mozilla Corporation over 5 years
               | ago. It's a first-party Mozilla product.
        
               | slenk wrote:
               | I did not realize that.
               | 
               | I still don't like the fact that it has sponsored links
               | then - that is what rubs me the wrong way.
        
               | sp332 wrote:
               | Yup, it's not great. Still seems easier to just turn them
               | off with the new tab settings panel than recompile the
               | whole browser, but I guess everyone has their own
               | preferences.
        
           | dandellion wrote:
           | There are better browsers than Firefox if you care about
           | privacy. Both Brave and Tor have better results in this
           | comparison that was shared here recently:
           | https://privacytests.org/, same with this tool from the EFF
           | https://coveryourtracks.eff.org/ it gives better results for
           | Brave than Firefox (even with blockers installed on my
           | Firefox). Mozilla themselves give the same score in their
           | very limited comparsion: https://www.mozilla.org/en-
           | US/firefox/browsers/compare/
           | 
           | Multi-account containers are really the only killer feature
           | in Firefox for me, they're super convenient for my work, but
           | that's about the only thing it has left going for it.
        
             | heresie-dabord wrote:
             | > comparison that was shared here recently:
             | https://privacytests.org/
             | 
             | The Librewolf project appears to be the best of all! I will
             | try it.
             | 
             | edit: Statement below is incorrect, Brave is a Chromium
             | fork.
             | 
             | I do note that Brave, Tor, and Librewolf are forks of
             | Firefox. This in my opinion is an additional reason to
             | support Firefox. Everyone else appears to be plundering
             | naive users' browser telemetry.
        
               | palebluedot wrote:
               | Brave isn't a fork of Firefox, it is a Chromium-based
               | browser.
        
               | BerislavLopac wrote:
               | Uh, I believe that Brave is based on Chromium, not
               | Firefox...
        
               | skrowl wrote:
               | This is incorrect. Libre Wolf is a Firefox fork.
               | 
               | On Android, look at Mull until Libre Wolf is available
               | there.
               | 
               | On iOS, lol, you get Safari or skinned Safari due to
               | Apple's app store rules.
        
               | gs17 wrote:
               | Be prepared for stuff to break. I recently tried it and
               | DRM content sometimes doesn't work no matter what you
               | enable (my recent example is Udemy, which the devs claim
               | happens in other FF forks). Also, by default it wipes
               | history/sessions when you close it, which can be a rude
               | surprise.
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | ur-whale wrote:
       | One more reason: firefox will work on older Macs.
       | 
       | Case in point: Chrome started to misbehave on my fathers rather
       | old Macbook (missing root certs, refuses to render google drive,
       | etc...)
       | 
       | When I open Google drive, after being a completely cryptic (to a
       | non-tech person) set of error messages, I realized I needed to
       | upgrade Chrome.
       | 
       | I tried to upgrade Chrome and was told I'm on an unsupported
       | version of OSX.
       | 
       | I tried to upgrade OSX and was told, no such thing exists on this
       | older hardware.
       | 
       | Lo and behold, firefox has none of these issues.
       | 
       | Ditch Google as soon as you can, and Apple as well.
        
         | windowsrookie wrote:
         | That's strange. Chrome says it requires MacOS 10.11, Firefox
         | says it requires MacOS 10.12. Based on that it would appear
         | that Chrome is supporting older versions of MacOS than Firefox.
         | 
         | MacOS 10.11 supports every 2008 and newer Apple computer. There
         | are also patches to get newer versions of MacOS on old
         | hardware. I'm using one patch to get 10.13 running on a 2008
         | MacBook Pro and it runs great.
         | 
         | http://dosdude1.com/software.html
        
         | wlindley wrote:
         | Ditch 'em all -- Microsoft, Apple, Google, and Amazon (the
         | "evil MAGA"). It's like when folks complain about CNN or Fox
         | News but keep feeding the beast by paying for subscription
         | television: Stop hurting yourself, folks!
        
           | mark_l_watson wrote:
           | I totally agree, but I wish you had included MSNBC news with
           | CNN and Fox. They all push a pro-war and corporate agenda,
           | just in different flavors.
        
       | baisq wrote:
       | Mozilla? Thanks but no thanks.
        
         | happymellon wrote:
         | You sound like someone who would then suggest Brave.
        
           | skinnymuch wrote:
           | Haha usually this sort of comment is silly and random, but in
           | this case this does seem most likely
        
         | andyjohnson0 wrote:
         | Care to expand on your aversion to Mozilla?
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | While I don't share the aversion toward Mozilla, I do think
           | it a strange company.
           | 
           | For some reason their focus seems directed towards everything
           | that's specifically not Firefox or browser related. Sort of
           | if Microsoft forgot that they own Windows.
        
             | MacsHeadroom wrote:
             | Mozilla is a non-profit with a mission focused on
             | encouraging open source and open web technology. FireFox is
             | a relatively small part of that mission.
        
       | tzs wrote:
       | I switched to Chrome a while back after years on Firefox because
       | of Firefox's terrible spell checking.
       | 
       | It is quite puzzling because Firefox uses the same open source
       | spell checker that Chrome uses and that is also used by
       | LibreOffice and is the OS provided spell checker on Mac.
       | 
       | Here are some examples of words that it botched that nearly
       | everything else (Chrome, Edge, Safari, LibreOffice, anything on
       | Apple that uses the OS provided spell check) got right:
       | 
       | 1. all-nighter auditable automata blacksmithing bubonic cantina
       | commenter conferenced epicycle ethicist fineable initializer
       | lifecycle micropayments mosquitos pre-programmed preprogrammed
       | prosecutable responder solvability spectrogram splitter
       | subparagraphs subtractive surveil tradable transactional tunable
       | verifiability verifier
       | 
       | 2. ballistically chewable counterintuitive exonerations mistyped
       | "per se" phosphine programmability recertification shapeshifting
       | tradeoffs webmail
       | 
       | 3. manticore survivorship misclassified ferrite massless rotator
       | dominator untraceably synchronizer
       | 
       | 4. "ad hominem" algorithmically another's backlight ballistically
       | coaxially hatchling impaction implementer inductor intercellular
       | irrevocability licensor measurer meerkats mischaracterization
       | misclassification misclassified partygoers passthrough plough
       | retransmission seatbelt sensationalistic trichotomy
       | underspecified untyped
       | 
       | All of those were reported to their bug tracker item for spell
       | check errors. They do eventually fix those, but the lag was in
       | the one to two year range. As of now they have fixed all of #1
       | except for initializer, all of #2, none of #3, and none of #4
       | except for algorithmically, ballistically, implementer, and
       | inductor.
        
       | below43 wrote:
       | I find Edge is a nice alternative
        
         | egberts1 wrote:
         | Whoa. If you have low memory (like 2GB or 4) in your PC, then
         | Edge is not your friend.
         | 
         | Problem is Electron as the backend for Edge.
        
           | SaulJLH wrote:
           | That is completely wrong, "electron as the back-end", LOL
           | WTF.
        
         | npteljes wrote:
         | It's a different skin on Chromium. So it's an alternative in
         | some regards, and not in others.
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | I tried Edge on mobile. Before, I had thought chrome, and to a
         | lesser extend firefox, phoned home a lot.
         | 
         | But oh boy, does edge on android phone home. You'd think a
         | phone home party was going on, as the tcpdump flies off your
         | screen...
         | 
         | No thanks.
        
         | SaulJLH wrote:
         | Edge is better than Chrome, & better than FF in many respects,
         | too.
         | 
         | Don't let the "M$ teh hacking my dataz!" tin-foilers
         | dissuade...
         | 
         | Performant, good mix of features, stable, solid compatibility,
         | & flexible.
        
           | boudin wrote:
           | I wouldn't touch Edge because I still remember the days when
           | IE was dominating the market. As much as I despise Google
           | being the one now, I do not miss those days and do not trust
           | Microsoft to do anything good if they were in this position
           | again. So you can make fun of people concerned about privacy,
           | but history proved there's a lot more concerns to have
           | regarding Microsoft
        
             | SaulJLH wrote:
             | I remember those times too, completely different group of
             | management, and the way they've done business in the last
             | near decade, has also been very different. Some throwbacks,
             | but on the whole, vastly different. I've been watching, you
             | clearly haven't. And aside from that, they're never going
             | to be in the "same position", the market is entirety
             | different.
        
               | boudin wrote:
               | I can see you've been watching their marketing indeed...
               | Now I've seen Windows 10 and Windows 11, it doesn't
               | really depict a different Microsoft.
        
           | throwaway0x7E6 wrote:
           | you're absolutely right, it's great for an average consumer
           | who doesn't care about privacy
        
             | SaulJLH wrote:
             | Mainly great for users who are way more technically
             | literate than the avg. hand-wavey user.
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | Something Edge has going for it is that it's the only browser
           | on Windows where hardware acceleration seems to consistently
           | work.
        
             | juki wrote:
             | I haven't really tried using Edge for general use, but I do
             | use it whenever I want text-to-speech. That's a lot better
             | in Edge than other options I've tried.
        
             | croes wrote:
             | The browser of the OS producer works best with the OS, honi
             | soit qui mal y pense
        
       | sieabahlpark wrote:
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | amanzi wrote:
       | I'm still using Firefox as my primary browser on desktop and
       | mobile. I have minor complaints, but nothing to make me consider
       | switching to something else.
        
         | Synaesthesia wrote:
         | It's really nice on Android to have extensions like YouTube
         | background player and uBlock origin.
        
           | abyssin wrote:
           | That's the only thing I really miss from Android (F-Droid was
           | precious to me but I don't miss it as much).
        
           | adhesive_wombat wrote:
           | I use Vanced for YouTube, but I cannot imagine barebacking
           | the modern web without an ad blocker.
        
           | andrepd wrote:
           | Any YouTube I watch on android I watch on NewPipe. It's
           | amazing.
        
             | was_a_dev wrote:
             | I've always stuggled with NewPipe, not because of NewPipe
             | itself, but because YouTube and it's algorthim.
             | 
             | People act as if the algorthim is some sort of evil entity,
             | but my viewing habbits follow recommended videos and
             | content aware search. I find sticking to subscriptions and
             | trending videos to be very trapping.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | mark_l_watson wrote:
               | The same thing annoys me. I do hit the 'three vertical
               | dots' menu and select "not interested" and I think that
               | is effective but that takes a few seconds and is a slight
               | nuisance.
               | 
               | Off topic, but I have a love/hate relationship YouTube
               | because of privacy issues, especially my political and
               | spiritual views. Same thing with TikTok, but at least
               | that material is mostly silly so if advertisers can buy
               | information on which silly stuff I watch, that seems
               | slightly less harmful than YouTube.
        
               | andrepd wrote:
               | Funny, for me it's the opposite. I'm very glad to have
               | only default un-personalised suggestions, plus my hand-
               | curated subscriptions.
               | 
               | No more watching one chess video and being bombarded with
               | chess content for a month, or watching one harmless
               | satirical video about a politician and being bombarded
               | with videos from the local right-populist party
               | propaganda channel (yes, this has happened to me exactly
               | as described).
        
               | was_a_dev wrote:
               | Fair enough, one of us may have been lucky/unlucky with
               | how content is served to us.
               | 
               | I have experience the "bombardment" of a suggestion, but
               | I think my subscriptions are vaired enough that a click
               | off that topic straightens it all out.
        
             | HKH2 wrote:
             | Yes, it's amazing, until the API changes and you have to
             | wait for an update for it to work.
             | 
             | Also, you only get to see top level comments. (Maybe that's
             | a feature for some people.)
        
               | lolinder wrote:
               | I disable comments altogether in Newpipe, which for me is
               | a _great_ feature.
        
       | garfieldnate wrote:
       | I actively tried to switch to Firefox this year, but couldn't due
       | to issues with saving tabs on sudden shutdown. Due to a separate
       | issue, my apple laptop was crashing and restarting a couple times
       | a week. Several times Firefox was not able to restore the
       | browsing session, and I lost all of my tabs :(
        
         | glowingly wrote:
         | All of the browsers (including all of the Trident based ones)
         | have had this issue for me. Most of my browser hopping in the
         | past was driven by losing a session, being unable to recover
         | it, and moving on to the next browser hoping it is more stable
         | now.
         | 
         | Nowadays I aggressively save to bookmarks. Still a lot of tabs
         | open, though.
        
       | Heckopi wrote:
       | Where's opera at
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | Basically called Vivaldi now. (But not really, since both are
         | Chromium based now ..)
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | In China?
        
           | Heckopi wrote:
           | I thought most use opera leo since Mozilla is heavy and buggy
           | as frak
        
         | ksrm wrote:
         | Right here: https://imgur.com/a/COXJUwb
        
       | k__ wrote:
       | I used Firefox for some years after being a Chrome user since it
       | was released.
       | 
       | Firefox had some kind of glow up years ago, with Quantum, but
       | that didn't hold for long.
       | 
       | A few years ago I switched to Brave and am pretty happy with it.
       | 
       | It has a Chromium base, but without Google's shenanigans. The
       | integrated adblocker even makes it feel a bit more responsive.
       | 
       | Also, it comes with IPFS, Onion, and crypto wallet out of the
       | box. Which isn't for everyone, but in my case it was a pretty
       | nice cherry on top.
        
       | zahma wrote:
       | Among all the other extensions that help guard my privacy and
       | improve QoL, Containers is another great feature that integrates
       | well with FF. I like maintaining profiles for privacy and
       | security, and it helps me navigate certain sites where I have
       | different accounts.
       | 
       | I honestly don't get the lean toward Chrome -- or Safari for that
       | matter. I don't detect such a big jump in performance that I'd
       | ever consider sacrificing privacy to Google's or Apple's end.
       | Brave is a nice browser but in the end I don't see how I'm better
       | off with it. Maybe I'm too much of a layman and don't understand
       | benchmarks or just don't pay attention to latency, but purely
       | from a daily driver perspective, I've never been happier with
       | Firefox.
        
         | TingPing wrote:
         | Safari is fairly pro privacy and blocks or deletes data more
         | aggressively than others sometimes.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | It also integrates extremely tightly into the Apple ecosystem
           | and has always had fantastic performance with very little
           | resource usage. Unlike chrome (although that's gotten much
           | better).
        
       | IMSAI8080 wrote:
       | Long time Firefox user. Using it now. Used it in the early days
       | for features liked tabbed browsing, good performance and Linux
       | support. These days I really mainly use it to be contrarian to
       | avoid using Google for everything. I just want to support a
       | competitor.
        
       | aspaviento wrote:
       | I wonder why there are sites in which the reader mode is not even
       | available. I can't think of any right now but it happens with
       | relative frequency to be annoying.
        
         | d3nj4l wrote:
         | Because Reader Mode is using heuristics to fetch the content of
         | the article, and that can fail if the article is weirdly
         | formatted in HTML. You can read more about this on the repo for
         | Mozilla's Readability, which is what Firefox uses under the
         | hood: https://github.com/mozilla/readability
        
       | zelphirkalt wrote:
       | I always use Firefox, but there is one annoying thing they do not
       | seem able to fix: The debugger. It often happens to me, that I
       | can step through code, but I simply cannot see the value of
       | variables at all, not by hovering, not by adding them to watched
       | variables. This often happens when working on JupyterLab. And
       | some days it works suddenly. Maybe JupyterLab has become so
       | overheady, that the debugger gives up or something. No idea. When
       | it does not work, I just use GNU Guix as follows:
       | 
       | guix shell ungoogled-chromium -- chromium
       | 
       | (a double minus there)
       | 
       | That runs an instance of ungoogled Chromium without me having to
       | install it in the system packages or so. After the first time the
       | build should be cached until you update your Guix packages and
       | start up quite quickly.
        
         | MaurizioPz wrote:
         | Something similar happens to me working in angular. I can see
         | the value referencing it as _this.variableName instead of
         | this.variableName
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | As Mozilla loses core dev resources, just like IE, Firefox will
       | go extinct.
       | 
       | It will no longer be able to render modern pages as the web
       | continues to grow increasingly complex.
       | 
       | Hopefully someday there will be a major backed FOSS project that
       | forks web kit and can compete. But there are far too many more
       | important problems out there for something as complex as a modern
       | browser.
        
       | cptskippy wrote:
       | The feature I use most is Firefox Sync and the ability to not
       | only send browser tabs to instances of Firefox running on other
       | machines but also to look at and load tabs from another machine,
       | even when it is offline.
       | 
       | Routinely I'll be reading something on my laptop in the evening
       | and want to reference it from my Dev VM the next day. With Sync I
       | can just pull up the list of open tabs on my laptop that's asleep
       | and retrieve the URL.
        
       | Existenceblinks wrote:
       | For many years, Firefox is my development browsers because I
       | thought I would run into perf issue, problematic/weird behaviour
       | more often. But recently I develop on app on Firefox for many
       | months, then test it on Chrome, dang! It's almost 3x slower
       | (rendering lots of dom nodes). So now I've switched to Chrome for
       | development because if it's fast on Chrome it's going to be very
       | fast on Firefox.
        
       | cdrini wrote:
       | One unique Firefox feature I love that I don't see talked about
       | often is how awesome Firefox's address bar suggestions are. I can
       | type just a snippet of a URL or a web page title and it'll
       | instantly show me all matching URLs I've visited, whether on my
       | desktop or on my phone. It's become my primary second brain for
       | finding Google docs, or articles I've read, or GitHub issues.
       | It's usually only a few characters before it finds exactly what I
       | want.
       | 
       | Eg I type in "Ed"? It shows the URL to my "editions in solr"
       | GitHub issues I've been working on recently. I vaguely recall an
       | article I read months ago on CSS grid? I type "grid guide" and
       | bam it's the first suggestion. The spreadsheet I made about user
       | languages? "sheets lang". That vague API I can never remember the
       | parameters to? Just type "/query.json?" And I get all my previous
       | requests as examples!
       | 
       | I find Chrome's address bar has been way less reliable and much
       | more frequently just gives me Google autocomplete suggestions --
       | even when I know that I visited a URL recently that should match!
        
         | throw10920 wrote:
         | To add to this, my experience has been that Chrome's address
         | bar does only matching on whole "fragments" of URLs - that is,
         | if I visited a URL with /foobarbaz/ in the name, Firefox will
         | match that with "bar" while Chrome won't - which is pretty
         | terrible behavior.
         | 
         | And then there's the bookmarks mess, lack of tree-style tabs,
         | and crippled ad-blocker API.
         | 
         | As an _information management tool_ , Firefox is light-years
         | ahead of Chrome.
        
           | sp332 wrote:
           | I've only been using Chrome for about a year, but if I want
           | the find something in my history, I have to open the history
           | window (ctrl-h). The address bar is very inconsistent about
           | returning pages that I've been to recently or often.
        
             | prox wrote:
             | Hope you will take FF for a spin!
        
         | robonerd wrote:
         | Firefox's address bar always seems to show me example.com/xyz
         | when I want example.com, but shows me example.com when I want
         | example.com/xyz. Furthermore, sometimes the "switch to tab"
         | suggestion is at the top, and other times it isn't.
         | 
         | If they picked one and stuck to it, I'd get used to it either
         | way and be a happy camper. But the inconsistency drives me up a
         | wall. I don't know how this compares to Chrome, I haven't used
         | that shit in years.
        
           | GeoAtreides wrote:
           | if you want example.com, type exam in the awesomebar and
           | example.bar will show up in suggestions, if, of course, you
           | visited it before or if it's bookmarked.
           | 
           | if you want example.com/xyz, type example xyz or example x or
           | just xyz.
        
             | robonerd wrote:
             | > _if you want example.com, type exam in the awesomebar and
             | example.bar will show up in suggestions_
             | 
             | I just tried it. I have example.com in my history, and
             | typed "exam". Example.com is the second thing firefox
             | suggests. Before it, is a duckduckgo image search result
             | page for the query "botanist", with an image titled _"
             | Young Botanist Examines The Plants In A Greenhouse Stock
             | Photo"_. Firefox is picking up the "exam" in "Examines" and
             | puts that result _before_ example.com.
             | 
             | I don't really care which is first, I just want one or the
             | other to be _consistently_ first.
        
               | GeoAtreides wrote:
               | Please go to: Settings(preferences) --> Search Then:
               | Search Suggestions:
               | 
               | Disable: Show search suggestions in address bar results
               | 
               | That should be it.
               | 
               | Below, go to Change settings for other address bar
               | suggestions it will navigate to: Address Bar / When using
               | the address bar, suggest Disable or enable as you see
               | fit. I think the Search engines under the "Address Bar"
               | is about the custom search engines one can define (i have
               | a custom search for youtube, for example: y <search
               | term>).
               | 
               | A better guide here: https://support.mozilla.org/en-
               | US/kb/address-bar-autocomplet...
        
               | robonerd wrote:
               | I already have "Provide search suggestions" turned off.
               | It's pulling _both_ of these suggestions out of my
               | browser history. The order firefox uses for suggestions
               | pulled from your history is inconsistent.
               | 
               | When searching your history from the address bar, firefox
               | sometimes puts entries matched by domain name first, and
               | sometimes puts entries matched by page contents first.
        
               | ilikepi wrote:
               | I'm not in front my my desk right now, but is it possible
               | the results from History are weighted by frequency and/or
               | recency? I know these attributes are recorded in the
               | History db.
        
         | Arnavion wrote:
         | Amazing. That is the one feature of Firefox I hate so much I
         | had to write an extension that uses a regex-based whitelist to
         | allow entries in my browser history.
         | 
         | Otherwise my history, and thus autocomplete suggestions, is
         | full of URls from single-page applications (webmail etc) that
         | differ only in the 1000-character-long hashes in the URL.
         | 
         | Whatever logic Chromium does to filter out this chaff from
         | autocomplete works much better for me.
        
         | newscracker wrote:
         | > One unique Firefox feature I love that I don't see talked
         | about often is how _awesome_ Firefox 's address bar suggestions
         | are.
         | 
         | That's actually called the _"Awesome Bar"_ , which was first
         | introduced in Firefox 3 (which was 14 years ago). [1] It has
         | been improved over time.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox_3.0
        
         | dandanua wrote:
         | You can also add tags to bookmarks and let it search only
         | through bookmarks. Now I just bookmark everything, so I don't
         | need to use google's search a second time and filter again all
         | that SEO and other crap. Moreover, I even bookmark some of my
         | local files, since adequate tagging capabilities in file
         | systems are still technologies from future, apparently.
        
         | black_puppydog wrote:
         | This.
         | 
         | Ever since version 2 or so, the Firefox autocompletion has made
         | me never use bookmarks. It's simply that good.
         | 
         | As others have said, it requires some tweaking nowadays. If
         | anyone at mozilla is reading... why?! I mean, I get it,
         | newbies... but... why?!
         | 
         | Anyhow, bookmarks and keeping them, clicking through endless
         | expanding nested menus of them, just the very concept... very
         | much something for the hostages of a corporation that wants
         | every contact with the web to start (and end) with a visit to
         | google.com
        
         | cassepipe wrote:
         | It gets much better when you disable search suggestions then
         | you only have results from your browsing history/bookmarks. And
         | in the end if you get no results you just launch a search
         | anyways.
         | 
         | There was a way to configure the relative weight of
         | boomarks/history but I can't find it anymore.
         | 
         | Also worthy of notice, if you start with * in the search bar
         | you only get bookmarks results and with ^ you get history
         | results. Finally % is for tabs (on synced devices too) !
        
           | clairity wrote:
           | that's what i do too, disable suggestions so everything i
           | type doesn't get sent to $searchEngine. i also make use of a
           | few keywords for my most frequently visited sites (like 'hn'
           | for hacker news) so that my keywords always override
           | firefox's dynamic suggestions in case of any conflicts.
           | 
           | i just learned about the ^ % * prefixes a few months ago, and
           | now use them all the time.
        
         | jotm wrote:
         | That's by design, to feed Google Search (and show you ads).
         | Firefox has that, too, but you can easily turn it off so it
         | will only show suggestions based on your history. Not sure
         | about Chrome.
        
         | jrochkind1 wrote:
         | > I can type just a snippet of a URL or a web page title and
         | it'll instantly show me all matching URLs I've visited
         | 
         | I think Chrome does this too, no? Maybe Firefox does it better?
        
       | anotherhue wrote:
       | Firefox: Yes. Mozilla: No
        
       | tjpnz wrote:
       | Firefox on Android with uBlock Origin was a game changer for me.
       | It makes the mobile web usable again.
        
       | bambax wrote:
       | I switched to Firefox a little over two years ago because of the
       | whole Manifest V3 snafu (and wild and unfounded invocations of
       | "security" to justify it), and never looked back. It works
       | perfectly well for everything -- and I couldn't live without
       | reader mode.
       | 
       | (TBH, I still use Chrome for developing, as I find the dev tools
       | on Chrome easier to use than on FF, and much better looking. But
       | I could also let go of that if needed be.)
        
       | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
       | Even without all great features Firefox has, it is the last
       | bastion of open internet, and this reason alone makes it worth
       | using instead of Chrome and its derivatives.
        
       | impetus1 wrote:
       | I have this nice toolbar I made which customizes firefox. I would
       | also suggest reviewing security on firefox.
       | 
       | https://gitlab.com/coolcoder/fractal-toolbar/-/tree/fractal
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Mozilla is a joke when it comes to privacy and being dependent of
       | Google's money and it is quite a funny sight to see that after 14
       | years [0] of trying to figure a way to make money after
       | 'promising' to not rely on Google, they still can't and continue
       | to aid their surveillance capitalism
       | 
       | With that, I have heard all the (very weak) reasons listed in
       | this article and at this point, you might as well use Brave
       | browser since everything listed here is already implemented by
       | them.
       | 
       | Firefox (really) has no killer features and the chronic decrease
       | in users shows that it is only going down as Edge has already
       | over taken it. [1][2][3]
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20120105090543/https://www.compu...
       | 
       | [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share
       | 
       | [2] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-
       | share/desktop/worl...
       | 
       | [3] https://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
        
       | zerop wrote:
       | I ditched chrome and switched to MS Edge (Not sure if many would
       | have done that). Chrome would heat up my Mac a lot and slows
       | eventually, it always shows up eating lots of power. MS Edge
       | seems lighter so far. Main reason to choose MS Edge (and not
       | firefox) was the outlook web. I don't use outlook client and I
       | use outlook web. Outlook web is slow on chrome, I found it
       | lighter on Edge. I also switched to Bing from Google and found
       | not much difference in day to day searches. However if I need to
       | search address/people/places I go to Google.
        
         | tomComb wrote:
         | These points about edge vs. chrome seem questionable to me
         | given that Microsoft just takes Google's browser engine for
         | edge . I guess they each do their own optimization, but it's
         | not like Google is inexperienced in this area.
        
       | pelagicAustral wrote:
       | Been using FF for about a year now. Absolutely no complains.
       | Before that I used Chrome for many years and really there is
       | nothing I used to do con Chrome that I cannot do on FF.
       | 
       | I did not change because of privacy concerns or whatever, I just
       | wanted to try something else, and FF has been quite alright.
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | >Automatic blocking of autoplay videos
       | 
       | And then this very site has an automatic playing video in the
       | article lmao
       | 
       | Also a lot of these claims are so-so imo.
       | 
       | "Lighter on system resources"
       | 
       | "Speedier website browsing"
       | 
       | I usually have 60-70 tabs open across 5-6 windows. Firefox
       | absolutely shits itself all the time but Chromium doesn't.
       | 
       | Anyways I use ungoogled-chromium
       | https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium
        
         | zelphirkalt wrote:
         | _yawn_ I am a declared tab horder, with 500+ tabs open and
         | Firefox shows no sign of any slowdown. Try that with Chromium
         | derivates. In my experience Firefox outclasses Chromium based
         | browsers for such a workload.
        
           | gurjeet wrote:
           | I'm way ahead of you there, and I'm _not_ proud of it.
           | 
           | My 'Tab counter' add-on tells me:                   Tabs in
           | this window: 3221         Tabs in all windows: 3301 (I think
           | this is because of a bug)         Number of windows: 6
        
         | pivo wrote:
         | I rarely have fewer than double that number of tabs open in
         | Firefox and never have crashes. Maybe it's crashed on me in the
         | past, but if so I don't remember it happening.
        
         | Jalad wrote:
         | > "Speedier website browsing"
         | 
         | I use Firefox on desktop and mobile, and I'd tend to agree with
         | you.
         | 
         | Sometimes I need to open up Chrome to test something and all of
         | the pages load noticeably faster (things like FB messenger,
         | Google search, etc.)
         | 
         | It's a tradeoff I guess because the extensions on Firefox
         | mobile are a killer feature.
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | Meanwhile I usually have 1000-2000 tabs open in Firefox and it
         | doesn't slow down at all, while Chrome made the whole system
         | slow down to a concerning degree with less than 100 tabs.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | - _" And then this very site has an automatic playing video in
         | the article lmao"_
         | 
         | Reminiscent of this classic:
         | 
         | - _" Among all the sites I visited, news sites, including The
         | New York Times and The Washington Post, had the most tracking
         | resources."_
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/08/23/opinion/data-...
        
         | tgv wrote:
         | The video doesn't play when I open the page. Youtube doesn't
         | autoplay either; the tab neatly says "auto-play blocked".
         | 
         | Note that browsers permit playing a video upon any "user
         | interaction", i.e. a key press or a click.
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | > I usually have 60-70 tabs open across 5-6 windows. Firefox
         | absolutely shits itself all the time but Chromium doesn't.
         | 
         | Last time I checked I had a few thousand tabs open with Firefox
         | and it doesn't do anything except use memory.
        
           | 8organicbits wrote:
           | I'm always curious about the use case of having so many open
           | tabs. Is there some context you work in where so many tabs
           | are needed? Are you able to find already open tabs, or do you
           | just end up with 50 hacker news tabs because you just open
           | new ones? Do you actually look at each tab, or do you open in
           | the background and never load them? Are you using extensions
           | to make tabs management easier, like tree style tabs?
           | 
           | Once I get past 40 or so I purge old tabs because it makes it
           | hard to find others I'm actively using. Besides, opening a
           | tab again isn't a huge burden.
        
             | csydas wrote:
             | I questioned it also but I guess tabs have become the
             | replacement for bookmarks. AFAIk both chrome and Firefox
             | have a search function specifically for open tabs so for
             | some it's easier to track and store sites that way,
             | especially since the browser can handle it well enough.
             | 
             | It's not my preference as I like having a clean browser
             | window; too many tabs is distracting and it's harder for me
             | to contextualize what work I'm focusing on (windows + tabs
             | for tasks is my preference), but I can see how it works for
             | some.
        
             | hombre_fatal wrote:
             | Tabs are just more concrete than bookmarks. Tabs aren't
             | things I thought I would want to revisit in the future that
             | I went out of my way to save to a list of such things that
             | I will never visit again.
             | 
             | Rather, tabs are even more useful than that: things I was
             | actually doing adjacent to the thing I was doing right next
             | to it. There's a spatial element to it.
             | 
             | Nothing compares to tabs. Especially not browser history
             | which is one long list of urls I once visited, who cares.
             | Tabs are a list of urls I _settled on_.
        
               | formerly_proven wrote:
               | Yep, by using multiple windows (one per project/topic) I
               | get a nice spatial relationship between tabs and they're
               | just as easy to search as bookmarks.
        
             | pivo wrote:
             | > Are you able to find already open tabs
             | 
             | Yes https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/search-open-tabs-
             | firefo...
             | 
             | This search also returns results for tabs open in Firefox
             | on other devices.
             | 
             | Opening the tab again isn't hard if you can remember what
             | that tab was to begin with.
        
             | prox wrote:
             | Yeah, using is 40 tabs is weird to me. Here is my strategy,
             | just have current tabs open that are relevant for my
             | computing session.
             | 
             | When I need something else that I visited, I use the
             | history shortcut, search for the word (usually its in the
             | title) and I got the info I need. Same with bookmarks which
             | I usually tag.
             | 
             | So many tabs just seems redundant I feel.
        
           | yuhojihugyiopu wrote:
           | Have over 2000 tabs as well, on an old Macbook Air. Have to
           | turn off Firefox Fission though.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | I have no problem in Firefox with dozens of tabs. Meanwhile
           | my extensionless Chromium install will consume all memory if
           | it is left open for a couple weeks with just two or three
           | tabs.
        
           | swfsql wrote:
           | I use an extension called autoTabDiscard (or something close)
           | that unloads webpages that I didn't access the last 10
           | minutes, or that doesn't load any tab on startup, but the
           | tabs keep existing in both cases. Then you can setup
           | exceptions as well.
           | 
           | That's an essential for me.
        
             | prox wrote:
             | But why open so many tabs when you can just search history
             | or bookmark (in FF you can also tag by double clicking the
             | star icon)
             | 
             | Usually I find everything I needed by time, data, keyword,
             | tag, or bookmark in a few seconds at most by opening
             | history or bookmark by keyboard shortcut.
        
               | swfsql wrote:
               | In my case I think I got used to have specific ff windows
               | for specific stuff, and having the tabs "opened" feels
               | quicker for me. But I guess I could get used to and
               | switch to tags and bookmarking as you said.
        
           | barbs wrote:
           | A few thousand tabs?!?! Come on mate!
        
             | zelphirkalt wrote:
             | And why not? Since it works so well on Firefox, it seems
             | like a valid thing to do. You can quickly jump to any
             | opened tab using the % thing in the URL or, if you have
             | tagged bookmarks open, you can search by tag. Basically
             | opened tabs are like a huge brain cache layer of things you
             | want to look at.
        
       | nerder92 wrote:
       | I tried to switch to Firefox, is almost one year that I've tried
       | but it just does not work for me. I can't express what it might
       | be in words, but the experience is just worse than Chrome.
        
         | copperx wrote:
         | What OS, if I may ask?
         | 
         | I find browser choice heavily depends on the OS you're using.
         | 
         | For instance, I can't stand anything but Safari on macOS.
         | There's nothing better than Firefox on Linux. But on Windows,
         | Chrome is king.
        
       | freebuju wrote:
       | Most chromium hit pieces come across as evangelical and this one
       | is no exception.
       | 
       | From my personal perspective, Firefox gets the job done but
       | Chromium is undoubtedly the better browser. On desktop and
       | mobile, the difference is felt even more on mobile.
       | 
       | Every time I found an obvious bug or got an unpolished experience
       | on Firefox, I hated it even more.
       | 
       | Whatever data the author thinks they are hiding away from Google,
       | they are (un)knowingly giving it to Mozilla. Even worse if they
       | are using Google to search.
        
       | elcapitan wrote:
       | I've been using FF as my main browser again since (I think)
       | Quantum, and kept it at version 91 to avoid the constant breaking
       | UI changes. Performance since Quantum is generally good, but for
       | more intense things like video or apps I am going back to Chrome
       | now. FF keeps my CPU 20C higher than Chrome for some simple
       | Youtube videos, which is just ridiculous (Macbook 12, 2017).
       | 
       | For daily non-performance relevant use, I still like the
       | Container feature a lot though, doesn't look like Chrome will get
       | it anytime soon.
        
         | computerfriend wrote:
         | Every version bump includes patches for serious security
         | vulnerabilities. You should reconsider your decision to pin to
         | version 91.
        
       | xony wrote:
        
       | Comevius wrote:
       | I have been using Firefox since 1.5 or so, and will keep using it
       | because I value customizability.
       | 
       | I keep Chromium around for web development, but it has a lot of
       | issues with Wayland (not to be confused with XWayland) currently.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | Although with the removal of old extensions Firefox has lost
         | most of its customizability. I really wish they kept those
         | around. Even if they came with scary warnings and would break
         | frequently because only a few APIs were kept stable.
        
           | Comevius wrote:
           | Those old XUL/XPCOM extensions weren't really safe, and the
           | only big loss was UI manipulation, which was kind of stupid
           | anyway, and not at all portable.
           | 
           | When I say customizability I mean user.js.
        
             | iggldiggl wrote:
             | > the only big loss was UI manipulation
             | 
             | Well, for a start e.g. mass downloaders have become
             | relatively useless because they can't download to outside
             | of the OS downloads directory without resorting to weird
             | hacks, can no longer intelligently handle already existing
             | files, etc.
             | 
             | Then user scripts no longer being able to live normally on
             | the file system (and therefore being editable outside of
             | whatever limited UI the extension can provide, being easily
             | _searchable_ ) are another victim of webextensions.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | Hence the "scary warnings". I don't think UI manipulation
             | is stupid, I don't believe that Mozilla makes the best UI
             | and extensions can definitely improve on it for many more
             | specific use cases. Portability is also nice but not
             | everything needs to be widely portable, I would rather have
             | a nice feature in Firefox than not having it because it
             | wasn't portable across browsers.
             | 
             | To be clear I am hugely in favour of WebExtensions. I am
             | glad that they were implemented and I think that they
             | should be the recommended API. But I would love to still
             | have the full-power backdoor for the extensions that are no
             | loner possible. For example I maintained VimFx for about a
             | year after they stopped officially supporting these
             | extensions and it was fine. The biggest pain wasn't
             | actually keeping up with the internal API changes, it was
             | the fact that it wasn't allowed in addons.mozilla.org
             | anymore and there is no good way to distribute self-signed
             | or third-part signed extensions.
        
       | loudthing wrote:
       | How did Chrome become so popular instead of Firefox in the first
       | place? Was it purely Google's advertising of their browser? Brand
       | recognition is so important to typical consumers.
        
         | gurjeet wrote:
         | IMHO, performance. Chrome's V8 engine (for running JavaScript)
         | was way ahead of competition when it was released. It took
         | Firefox many years to come close to it.
         | 
         | Disclosure: Happy Firefox user since v1. Sometimes I was
         | jealous of Chrome's speed, sometimes I was weary of Firefox's
         | memory leaks, but never enough to leave the flexibility and
         | customizability the Firefox provided.
         | 
         | EDIT: ... and now Firefox is fast enough, and isn't a memory
         | hog anymore, so I continue to be a very happy Firefox user.
        
           | loudthing wrote:
           | Good point. V8 gave us Node.js, right? Also I've been out of
           | the loop for a while now about Firefox. My understanding was
           | Firefox had a pretty bad memory leak for a long time. Was
           | that ever resolved?
           | 
           | Edit: Saw your edit. Glad the firefox memory problem was
           | resolved.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | This matches my memory as well. Safari was dramatically
           | faster but it was limited to the Mac (let's just ignore the
           | Windows version).
           | 
           | Chrome was based on Safari and was far far faster than
           | anything else available on Windows at the time. Not only that
           | but they moved fast and kept improving.
           | 
           | Firefox is great now but it took a long time to catch up.
        
         | wussboy wrote:
         | I think it was because it was widely advertised on Google.com,
         | a luxury Firefox never had.
        
           | loudthing wrote:
           | Crazy thing is Mozilla was heavily funded by Google for years
           | before Chrome came out.
        
       | bananamerica wrote:
       | You know, I did that. Firefox is great, but it's using 600mb of
       | RAM on my meager 2012 MacBook Air.
       | 
       | I'm regretably looking for alternatives. Probably Safari if I
       | manage to get adblock.
       | 
       | I think it's better on Linux.
        
       | bittercynic wrote:
       | I regularly use Chromium and Firefox on an older/slower laptop,
       | and Firefox seems much more restrained in memory usage. Chromium
       | frequently consumes all available memory and swap, and brings the
       | whole system to a crawl, and I never really see that behavior
       | with Firefox.
        
       | spurgu wrote:
       | Does anyone here know how to change the keyboard shortcut to
       | focus the URL bar on Firefox?
       | 
       | I'd like to map it to Cmd+D instead of Cmd+L since it's (Alt+D)
       | been in my muscle memory since forever. It's the main reason that
       | keeps me from switching. With Chrome I simply assign it to the
       | menu entry File -> Open Location ... but Firefox doesn't have a
       | menu entry for focusing the URL bar (or at least didn't have last
       | time I checked[0]).
       | 
       | [0] Checked again, v100 still doesn't have a menu entry
        
       | 01acheru wrote:
       | I don't know how long I'm using FF, a couple years of Opera ages
       | ago, some time with the early Chrome when FF was a hog but now
       | I'm on FF only on Mac, iOS and Linux. It is perfect for every use
       | case of mine, also it is fantastic on iOS.
       | 
       | There is only one reason why I'm using Chrome: at work we use
       | Google Workshit for Business or whatever it is called now and
       | every Google service has issues anywhere besides Chrome and it is
       | getting worse as the time goes by. Meet is terribly unreliable
       | and since some months simply won't open the calls because of some
       | unknown error, Docs and Sheets cannot be edited, Drive is slow as
       | fuck and sometimes doesn't finish loading the page, Gmail has low
       | res icons and is significantly slower, etc...
       | 
       | Don't be evil... go fuck yourself!
        
       | ncann wrote:
       | A very nice feature that is only available in FF and not Chrome
       | is the ability to display subtitles/closed captions in Picture-
       | in-picture (PIP) mode. It's a game changer for me, who uses PIP
       | heavily on my ultrawide monitor to watch Youtube videos.
        
       | chiefalchemist wrote:
       | One of the reasons I've been reluctant to go back to FF is the
       | lack of support for users (that Chrome). I like to set up a
       | Chrome user (effectively a new instance of the browser) for each
       | project / client. Each gets ends up with its own password
       | manager, history, bookmarks, etc.
       | 
       | Having users helps me silo things abd stay organized. I can also
       | have multiple users' browsers open at the same time.
       | 
       | How can I replicate this with FF?
        
         | timbit42 wrote:
         | Does Firefox's Profiles do what you are describing?
        
       | jokoon wrote:
       | I recently tried to enable resist fingerprinting, I ended
       | disabling it because it broke all dark themes on websites...
        
         | Tmpod wrote:
         | It is doing its job. The media query for your theme is a point
         | of data for fingerprinting, so disabling it is a good thing.
         | However, it would be nice to have a way to select which
         | measures should be applied, so you can costumise it to your
         | preference.
        
       | Shadonototra wrote:
       | Mozilla sells its users to Google, so no thanks
       | 
       | I'll stick with Chromium
        
         | cyber_kinetist wrote:
         | Ironically the reason why Google supports Firefox financially
         | (mainly with web search deals) might be to make a competitor
         | float (barely) alive so they don't need to get sued by
         | antitrust/monopoly issues in the future.
        
       | Eriks wrote:
       | I have only one issue with Firefox - Google Streetview is
       | sluggish for GeoGuessr use. Otherwise it is my default browser on
       | my Linux box. On Macbook Safari is still the best.
        
       | dbg31415 wrote:
       | Firefox is my default browser.
       | 
       | That said... I now use Chrome for all video calls. Firefox just
       | isn't battery efficient for those. Blame Google, blame Zoom,
       | blame whoever. On EVERY service I've tested (check my post
       | history, complained about this to nauseam)... I can call one
       | browser from the other, and no matter what Firefox on Mac uses at
       | minimum 50% more power according to Apple's power use tool.
       | 
       | Also, any time I take or receive a streaming call on Firefox, my
       | MBP gets very hot. Much hotter than Chrome. Wish someone at
       | Mozilla would take battery usage / CPU usage on Mac more
       | seriously. It's been a problem for years.
        
       | swfsql wrote:
       | I use Libre Wolf, which is a pre-configured Firefox with enhanced
       | privacy. They still support the FF Sync stuff.
       | 
       | Similarly for vscode, there is vscodium.
        
         | nyanpasu64 wrote:
         | I wish LibreWolf supported Firefox Sync. I appreciate how they
         | removed Firefox's sell-out advertising, promotions for Mozilla
         | Corporation products, and telemetry by default. But I couldn't
         | get sync to work; it's my main blocker from using it as my
         | daily driver. (Some smaller annoyances as a developer are not
         | having about:crashes to examine, debug, and upload coredumps on
         | an opt-in basis, and Firefox Profiler not having LibreWolf's
         | C++ symbols.)
        
           | swfsql wrote:
           | My sync worked normally, except for the password autofill
           | (but the passwords are still saved on the Settings)
        
             | nyanpasu64 wrote:
             | Running LibreWolf on Windows 7 on an older machine, with
             | ublock0 set to default-deny JS for performance reasons. I
             | tried enabling Firefox Sync in about:preferences#librewolf,
             | visiting the settings, and logging in again. This time I
             | got further, when I logged in I got asked for 2FA, but it
             | logged into accounts.firefox.com but not the browser.
             | 
             | When I restarted LibreWolf, a Tools -> Sign In option
             | appeared, but https://accounts.firefox.com/signin?action=em
             | ail&service=syn... asked for the password of a now-removed
             | email (which is now neither a primary nor secondary email,
             | why is it still in Firefox's servers?!) under the same
             | account. Entering my password said that I should use my
             | primary email again, and selecting "Use a different
             | account", entering my email and password, and another 2FA
             | did not sign into sync (Tools still says "Sign in", as did
             | about:preferences#sync). Logging in a third time emailed me
             | instead of asking for a 2FA code, but yet again did not
             | sign into my browser.
             | 
             | This accounts.firefox.com bug scares me; it reminds me of
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30169435. At this
             | point, I think I'm going to delete and recreate my Firefox
             | account to remove all traces of my old email.
             | 
             | EDIT: I tried deleting my Firefox account, but realized it
             | would remove my Fenix addon collections too. I tried
             | signing into addons.mozilla.org... and _again_ saw my
             | removed email on the login screen.
        
         | toastal wrote:
         | I recently switched to LibreWolf too where the privacy setting
         | involve opting _in_ to keeping instead of destroying cookies,
         | WebGL support, etc. I know that when upstream Fx pushes a new
         | feature, the LibreWolf team will choose the strict privacy
         | option as the default.
        
       | irajdeep wrote:
       | The only chrome feature that is preventing me from moving to
       | firefox is the "tab grouping" feature in chrome.
        
       | gandalfff wrote:
       | I fired up Firefox and Chrome on Kubuntu on a 2008 iMac and was
       | surprised to find that Firefox could play 1080p video on YouTube
       | but Chrome kept dropping frames at 480p. It's definitely worth
       | trying both to see which is faster.
        
         | coayer wrote:
         | Sounds like HW acceleration wasn't working on Chrome, no?
        
       | kkfx wrote:
       | I mainly use Firefox, because of vertical tabs (Tab Center
       | Reborn), Reader, TPRB/NoScript etc BUT sometimes I fall back on
       | Chromium simply because I want to access a webcrapplication that
       | does not work and I do not want to dig how many js and co I have
       | to allow to make it works...
       | 
       | Yes, I can use still FF with different profiles, but I'm simply a
       | bit too lazy for that...
        
         | wintermutestwin wrote:
         | I recently switched to vertical tabs in FF (Sidebery) and it is
         | an incredibly better approach. Why the hell is this not built
         | in to the browser??? It is lame that Mozilla isn't baking this
         | kind of core functionality in. On top of that, they make it a
         | PITA to kill the stupid horizontal tabs.
         | 
         | Supposedly Edge has a vertical tabs option. Chrome doesn't seem
         | to even have a plug in for it.
        
           | kkfx wrote:
           | Perhaps because they are still on very small monitor where
           | horizontal space is precious, Mozilla is FLOSS but
           | definitively not a free project, they act as a corporate one
           | so maybe they have some guidelines written in the era of
           | 1024x760 CRT monitor, I can't tell...
           | 
           | However I'm glad I can have them (hiding the tab-bar also to
           | avoid clutter) since with them I can have many tabs open,
           | seeing a sufficient amount of text to identify any and
           | sparing precious _vertical_ space on my modern normal 19:9
           | monitor...
           | 
           | I do not use Windows, thankfully, so I do not know Edge, I've
           | looked for something similar for Chromium but finding nothing
           | like you... Honestly I see modern WebVM improperly named
           | browsers for legacy reasons as a necessary evil since
           | unfortunately the modern world is web2.0-centric and I have
           | not much choice for that, but I have not much expectations
           | from both nor not much interests beside the minimum
           | protection and ergonomic of my daily digital life...
        
       | sidjor wrote:
       | My reasons for switching to Firefox were IT related. IT security
       | divisions in some orgs are so paranoid that they won't allow
       | saving form data or passwords. Or even let sessions persist and
       | will make work hell. They do this for corp standard browser -
       | Google Chrome it is. Firefox saves the day.
        
       | kriro wrote:
       | I need exactly one reason. Mozilla Foundation > Google for my
       | browsing needs.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-05-28 23:01 UTC)