[HN Gopher] The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn
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       The Collison Brothers Built Stripe into a $95B Unicorn
        
       Author : marban
       Score  : 139 points
       Date   : 2022-05-26 12:41 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.forbes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.forbes.com)
        
       | kareemsabri wrote:
       | I know the Collisons are brilliant founders and I have long
       | admired Stripe (I've used their Golang API client as inspiration
       | many times in my own code) but it's kind of unfortunate how
       | founder lore really minimizes employees. Stripe has 4,000 people
       | working there, this article mentions only two other employees in
       | passing (the CPO and CFO). Surely many others were brilliant
       | contributors to Stripe's becoming a $95B unicorn, and staying
       | one, beyond just the Collison Brothers. A culture in our industry
       | that made employees feel more ownership would likely help with
       | retention and recruiting.
        
         | andy_ppp wrote:
         | Being able to hire brilliant people is a difficult skill too. I
         | don't suspect Adyen have the same ability to hire great people
         | that Stripe do and while they have a lot of complex problems a
         | payments API is not the most glamorous of companies to work
         | for.
        
         | lifeisstillgood wrote:
         | I think that this is not just a story-telling problem.
         | 
         | It is a wealth-sharing problem as well. I don't know much about
         | stripe, but think of Bezos as a pretty good example - to a O(n)
         | rounding he has 100 billion dollars and 1 million employees.
         | 
         | Why is he getting 100,000 _from_ each employee ? Not because
         | those employees send him a cheque. But because of particular
         | outcomes of share capital, and corporate law. Decisions made in
         | UK  / US legal circles since before the USA was a USA.
         | 
         | These decisions have been part of 200 years of the most
         | phenomenal growth in global human wealth ever, so there is a
         | lot of baby in the bathwater. But look at say the German
         | mittelstand - a different approach to local business banking.
         | And compare european social-democracy to US welfare states.
         | 
         | There is a lot of room and flexibility between "totally dampen
         | growth and human innovation" and "more equal sharing of life's
         | burdens".
         | 
         | Oh and lest we forget, it is in the main _scientific advances_
         | that have bought us the last 200 years, not founders or
         | entrepreneurs, and those advances were funded almost fully by
         | government out of ... tax revenue. So the last 200 years of
         | growth can be seen as a story of government funded and directed
         | scientific achievement, given reign to rollout in a benign
         | business climate, and the workforce provided via mass education
         | and health programs, all of which funded by taxing the
         | successful companies.
         | 
         | Is that an over simplification - hell yes. But so is "young
         | founder has great idea and works hard".
        
           | l33t2328 wrote:
           | To an O(n) rounding error he also has 0 dollar and 100000000
           | employees
        
           | jdavis703 wrote:
           | If Amazon's board decided to reallocate the CEO's
           | compensation package and grant it to employees, it would
           | increase the entry level salaries of warehouse workers from
           | $18/hour to $18.45/hour.
           | 
           | Not a bad bump, but also historically low by Amazon pay
           | bumps. But it's also not going to solve income inequality...
           | And very likely there are few people qualified to be CEO of
           | Amazon who'd do the job for $18.45/hour.
        
             | daenz wrote:
             | Not to mention the financial fallout of not having an
             | experienced leader at the helm. Sure, it would coast for
             | awhile without a leader, and I'm sure someone will try to
             | explain to me how it could be run completely
             | democratically, but eventually a competitor with a
             | competent leader would eat their lunch.
        
             | zem wrote:
             | the issue here is _owner_ compensation, not CEO
             | compensation. that is, wealth accrued by virtue of
             | "owning" a company that other people are merely "employees"
             | adding value to, but not receiving any of that value.
        
               | daenz wrote:
               | Anyone can buy Amazon stock. Then you own some of the
               | company and will benefit financially if the value goes
               | up!
        
               | jeromegv wrote:
               | So you're advocating for employees to "buy" stock from
               | where they work in order to get compensated?
        
               | daenz wrote:
               | >in order to get compensated
               | 
               | That language is based on the assumption that they're not
               | already being compensated.
               | 
               | Their compensation is what they agreed to accept as
               | payment for their labor. So they're already being
               | compensated. If they want to "own" part of the company
               | outside of this agreement, they need to buy a piece of
               | it. If you want that as part of your employment
               | agreement, negotiate it beforehand, either individually,
               | or as part of a union effort. If you can't negotiate it
               | through those efforts, then accept the fact that the
               | employer believes they can get a better deal on the
               | labor.
        
             | jonplackett wrote:
             | Don't confuse compensation with his wealth.
             | 
             | CEOs often have hardly any salary. But his shares nearly
             | doubled in value over the pandemic - increasing by $84
             | billion.
             | 
             | Divide those billions per employee instead and they get
             | $84,000 each. And Bezos is still as rich as he was before
             | the pandemic.
        
             | kareemsabri wrote:
             | This is technically true, but of course there are many
             | other methods of increasing warehouse worker pay beyond
             | reallocating the CEO's compensation package. The pie is not
             | zero sum. For example, stock splits often result in market
             | cap increases due to more liquidity / access. Amazon could
             | issue some (or more?) stock options to its employees in the
             | warehouse or elsewhere if they desired to do so, and it's
             | not a foregone conclusion it would adversely affect their
             | ability to retain a top tier CEO. Who knows, perhaps Amazon
             | would see better worker retention resulting in increased
             | efficiency if they had a more generous package for
             | warehouse workers (not making this claim, but I disagree
             | with the zero sum framing here).
        
           | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
           | > It is a wealth-sharing problem as well.
           | 
           | The reality is that it's just not possible to start these
           | kinds of Unicorn companies anywhere except in the USA. The
           | EU's extreme policies contribute to an overwhelming burden of
           | taxes and employment regulations, which results in extreme
           | risk-averseness. Which results in entrepreneurial Europeans
           | going to USA to start their company.
        
           | dustingetz wrote:
           | Ok. How?
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | I am sure a good chunk of those employees are millionaires will
         | will become millionaires after the IPO.
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | _> it's kind of unfortunate how founder lore really minimizes
         | employees_
         | 
         | It's far easier to tell the story of a handful of people than
         | of thousands. The only successful approach to the latter is
         | selecting some at random and telling their stories - but that
         | still leaves most people out. I think it's an interesting and
         | hard problem to tell a comprehensive story about a large group,
         | but I'm not really sure if it can be done. Even Howard Zinn
         | focused on (usually unsuccessful) opposition leaders more than
         | the everyman in his narrative! In any event, I'd love to see
         | someone succeed at making such a narrative, not necessarily
         | about Stripe, but about anything really.
        
           | kareemsabri wrote:
           | For sure. I understand why stories are told the way they are.
           | I stand by my point though. And I do think there's a happy
           | medium between Ayn Rand'ian style hero entrepreneur and
           | telling the story of thousands that can be achieved with
           | modest effort, since I've read a few of them.
           | 
           | Admittedly the absurdity of the headline is what triggered
           | the initial thought for me, but the article lived up to the
           | headline in this case.
        
         | polote wrote:
         | > Surely many others were brilliant contributors to Stripe's
         | becoming a $95B unicorn, and staying one, beyond just the
         | Collison Brothers.
         | 
         | From my experience working at several saas unicorns, in each
         | companies there was 2-3 max people who where responsible for
         | the success of the company. It is not that all others were
         | useless but they all could have been replaced easily without
         | having any impact in the success of the company.
         | 
         | I know this is difficult to hear as an employee but this is the
         | truth. 99% of us are replaceable.
         | 
         | In my opinion and experience, working with skilled and nice
         | people VS working with stupid and coward people for example has
         | only an impact on the happiness of the employees but has no
         | link with company performance. (company culture has no impact
         | on company performance)
        
           | kareemsabri wrote:
           | It's not difficult to hear, it's just not true. I don't know
           | what sort of companies you've worked at where employees are
           | completely fungible, but I've had the opposite experience,
           | working with many talented and hard working people who make
           | major contributions that help deliver hundreds of millions in
           | revenue. Perhaps you joined them when they were already
           | unicorns and the playbook / moat was already developed, but
           | at startups there's nothing BUT the people. You think the
           | Collisons are writing all the code and conceptualizing all
           | the new products and figuring out how to take them to market,
           | or creating and maintaining a high performing engineering
           | culture, or [50,000 other things that need to happen to reach
           | $95B]?
           | 
           | If that were true, it would be weird that companies work so
           | hard to acquire, retain, and develop talent.
        
             | polote wrote:
             | You can be very talented and do a ton of work without
             | having a bigger business impact than another person doing
             | 50% less than you.
             | 
             | At the end whether you have a design system, if you have
             | infinite scalability, if you use node or Ruby, having that
             | feature or that other feature it doesn't matter. The only
             | thing that matter is the revenue the company make.
             | 
             | If what matters was the people then ngo would be unicorns
        
         | AlchemistCamp wrote:
         | > I've used their Golang API client as inspiration many times
         | in my own code
         | 
         | For the last five years, I've requested an Elixir client.
         | 
         | I wish they would either build one or greatly improve the docs
         | for people who aren't using one of their first party API client
         | libraries. It's not like Stripe lacks the resources.
         | 
         | In fact an argument could be made that ignoring all but the
         | most popular handful of languages runs counter to their goal of
         | increasing the GDP of the internet. Increased friction for
         | adopting new and productive languages means fewer do and devs
         | remain in a slightly more ossified ecosystem.
        
           | andy_ppp wrote:
           | Completely agree, I also had this problem but I guess that is
           | one downsides of using a language that isn't particularly
           | mainstream. Still with thousands of programmers it would be
           | worth the return on the small investment.
        
       | napolux wrote:
       | Paddle as a lot of restrictions on what to sell and what not.
        
         | hobo_mark wrote:
         | For instance?
        
       | encoderer wrote:
       | Paddle buying ProfitWell is big. Paddle would also take over all
       | my billing support. I don't want to do a billing migration right
       | now but if I did I probably would switch to Paddle.
       | 
       | The first real contender to Stripe in a long time.
        
         | pastor_bob wrote:
         | lol, this is like the bat signal for pc
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | This kind of business is like airbnb for entrepreneurs.
         | Accounting is a big hassle for small devs
        
         | mooktakim wrote:
         | I still don't understand what Paddle offers to SaaS.
         | 
         | As a dev I thought maybe easier integration. But it doesn't
         | seem all that different from Stripe Invoice.
        
           | jokethrowaway wrote:
           | They handle paying vat and sales tax for you. Your customers
           | purchase from them. You make a single b2b invoice to paddle.
           | 
           | That said their API is very basic and their UX is not on par
           | with what you can. A lot of operations are not possible (eg.
           | Letting users change their billing details, such as company
           | or personal, vat number, etc)
           | 
           | They also won't migrate your credit card data if you're too
           | small.
           | 
           | www.getrevin.com looks like a much better alternative: they
           | basically create a stripe account and add you to it. You
           | integrate with your their stripe account and they pay you,
           | same as paddle.
        
             | chrisfrantz wrote:
             | This seems like a no-brainer acquisition for Stripe. Afaik
             | this is the one big differentiator for paddle and this
             | seems to solve for it with a lower fee.
        
           | samwillis wrote:
           | My understanding is that Paddle becomes a middle man in the
           | transaction taking on all international tax responsibility.
           | They pay you out _after_ paying all tax /vat local to the
           | customer. This _massively_ simplifies international sales,
           | particularly for EU business.
           | 
           | I also believe that an awful lot of small online SASS and
           | digital good sales by companies are committing
           | (unintentional) tax fraud in the countries of their
           | customers.
           | 
           | I _hate_ trying to understand vat /sales tax on digital
           | goods, to the point that it has until now discouraged me from
           | starting that sort of business on my own. With Paddle I
           | wouldn't have to even think about it.
        
             | noneeeed wrote:
             | I'm so glad I've read this today. I've been thinking about
             | building a little SaaS product and one of the aspects
             | putting me off was the VAT/Sales Tax problem. I'm a
             | stickler for the rules, I don't feel comfortable YOLOing
             | something like that the way so many seem to be.
        
             | jokethrowaway wrote:
             | A simple solution is to do a b2b company only and thanks
             | the EU for complicating the situation so much. Another
             | thing I used to do was to just sell to everyone except
             | European customers (explicitly written on the website).
             | 
             | The funniest thing is that the EU ostensibly did it to make
             | "Amazon pay their fair share" while most small merchants
             | that used to run e-commerce have moved to sell on Amazon or
             | eBay just not to have to keep up with all the regulations
             | and bs.
        
               | samwillis wrote:
               | I believe that two some extent these sort of regulations
               | are lobbied for in the background by large corporations
               | in order to make it harder for small business to enter
               | the market. If they are going to get regulated anyway
               | best make it to their own advantage!
        
               | fredsted wrote:
               | EU generally can't make good (tech) legislation. Cookie
               | law is the goto example. It's too complicated. Too many
               | cooks.
        
               | gibolt wrote:
               | They tend to take a defensive approach to restrict
               | outsiders, since most tech innovation isn't happening
               | locally
        
               | wewxjfq wrote:
               | More like: US companies can't handle good tech
               | legislation, which the EU makes. I enjoy my rights. And
               | "cookie law" is very simple.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | If your idea of "good legislation" is "bureaucratic
               | hellpit that promises the solution to all problems to the
               | electorate, but in reality just makes things _slightly_
               | more expensive to big companies and destroys any chance
               | of smaller players to disrupt the market ", then yes, EU
               | legislation is great.
               | 
               | Cookie law is "simple", but what does it achieve? How are
               | our lives better after knowing that _every website uses
               | cookies_? Is there any website you thought  "oh wow, they
               | are telling me they are using _cookies_ , this totally
               | changes my perception of how they operate!"?
               | 
               | GDPR is the same: did it make any difference in the
               | amount of surveillance capitalism we are subject to? No!
               | Did it make any of the sites you use to reduce the amount
               | of data collected? No! Did it make money for a fuckton of
               | lawyers who went after Small/Medium Businesses who had a
               | website and _had_ no idea if they were complying or not,
               | leading the majority of them to just _close down and move
               | to Facebook Pages?_ Of course it did!
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | > A simple solution is to do a b2b company only
               | 
               | "Simply change your entire business model or build a
               | different product"
               | 
               | > Another thing I used to do was to just sell to everyone
               | except European customers
               | 
               | "Just ignore the entire EU market for whatever you're
               | selling"
               | 
               | This isn't a serious post right? Or I guess, it's
               | actually a classic HN counter-post.
        
               | HatchedLake721 wrote:
               | How does you stopping selling in ~30 EU countries, help
               | you with being tax and law compliant in the other 150+
               | countries?
               | 
               | You still have to know and understand your legal/tax
               | responsibilities when selling to businesses in Singapore,
               | South Korea, Australia etc.
        
             | fredsted wrote:
             | Exactly. Paddle saves me so much time and money. I couldn't
             | even imagine what my accountant would bill for something
             | similar.
        
               | BbzzbB wrote:
               | Does the 5% + 50c include the whole payment process on
               | top of the tax-handling? As in, the alternative is paying
               | 2-3% anyway to someone like Stripe for integrating
               | payments, so that the cost of off-loading all int'l VAT
               | and co headaches is around 2-3% (the 50c is negligible
               | for my use case)?
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | This so much, Stripes innovation was making it so much easter
         | to integrate a payment api. Paddles innovation is making
         | international tax/vat a complete none issue to new businesses.
         | They are doing everything small business want to make online
         | digital goods sales painless from an admin point of view.
        
           | tut-urut-utut wrote:
           | As someone currently looking exactly at this kind of
           | provider, I'm curious about other Paddle competitors whose
           | price model is only revenue based, without a fixed monthly
           | fee.
           | 
           | Gumroad is another merchant of records, but developer
           | documentation is worse, fees are higher and it seems to
           | support only USD pricing.
           | 
           | Other alternatives requires a somewhat hefty monthly fee,
           | which is a non starter for my use case.
        
       | ambicapter wrote:
       | > Wordlessly offered a credit card reader, Collison says he'd
       | rather pay cash.
       | 
       | Wonder why. Competitors' device? Privacy concerns?
        
         | rcoder wrote:
         | This is -- as I would expect, given Patrick + John's
         | _extremely_ careful public messaging -- consistent with
         | Stripe's public mission of "increasing the GDP of the
         | Internet." Given the option of cash or card, credit is a net
         | loss for a brick-and-mortar establishment: ~3% plus a fixed
         | per-transaction fee can easily eat the entire profit margin for
         | a restaurant. That doesn't doom them to immediate failure, but
         | it does push prices up for everyone; as we've all rediscovered
         | in the last ~six months, price inflation doesn't actually end
         | up as pure win for sellers.
         | 
         | Seriously, if you're "badging in" with your iWatch to pay for
         | your $4 cup of coffee, remember that you just funneled at least
         | 10% of that away to various intermediaries. (That even sets
         | aside the long-standing tradition of looking the other way
         | about "tip jar" income. Putting every dime onto an official
         | balance sheet means that employers are going to W-2 all of it,
         | even for folks not making anywhere close to nominal minimum
         | wage.)
        
         | zht wrote:
         | wonder if it's privacy concerns like Zuck taping over his
         | webcam
        
           | gnatman wrote:
           | Yeah I wonder if, after seeing how the sausage is made on
           | payment processing (and making $95B of sausage himself), he
           | doesn't want exposure under some other (to him) shitty
           | system.
           | 
           | It could also be some petty competitive instinct to stiff his
           | competitors even a few cents or dollars in revenue.
        
       | mroll wrote:
        
         | mroll wrote:
        
       | tootie wrote:
       | It's a really amazing case of a business going into a crowded
       | space and building a solution to what anyone would have called a
       | thoroughly-solved problem and still managed to disrupt it. They
       | didn't really "invent" anything or make a new market, they just
       | did something better than everyone else. And, I think, got
       | incredibly lucky with entering the market at the exact right
       | time.
        
         | ttcbj wrote:
         | While I see your point, I went through several scammy credit
         | card processing solutions (one from an intuit subsidiary, one
         | from a local bank) back around 2013 before I found stripe.
         | 
         | You wouldn't think that "it's easy to use and not scammy" Would
         | have been an innovation, but at that stage, I think it was.
        
           | tempnow987 wrote:
           | Man, we got burned with a "contracted" credit card solution,
           | complete with horrible support, service and billing.
        
         | jonny_eh wrote:
         | > they just did something better than everyone else
         | 
         | Wow, HN's ability to dismiss and diminish major accomplishments
         | continues to astound me.
        
           | DantesKite wrote:
           | > got incredibly lucky with entering the market at the exact
           | right time
           | 
           | I also found this to be a somewhat shallow analysis,
           | considering their sustained success over a decade.
        
             | danielmarkbruce wrote:
             | It might be shallow, but it's right. Nothing wrong with
             | getting lucky.Those guys worked hard and are smart for
             | sure, but luck had a lot to do with it.
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | Better execution is considered the biggest compliment in the
           | industry. Novel ideas are sort of considered a passe path to
           | success. In that context, it sounds more like idolization
           | than insult.
        
           | bcbrown wrote:
           | You think saying "a really amazing case of a business [that
           | executed] better than everyone else" is dismissive and
           | diminishing?
        
             | jonny_eh wrote:
             | "Just" implies it wasn't a big deal.
        
               | danielmarkbruce wrote:
               | Warren Buffett just focuses on business all day. Tom
               | Brady just thinks about football all day.
               | 
               | The word 'just' is used in many cases to show someone did
               | one thing and not other things. Doing lots of things is
               | often just stupid.
        
         | warent wrote:
         | It is curious to wonder how they managed to lead the company
         | this successfully. How often do young founders actually hang
         | onto leadership this long without either imploding or being
         | replaced? Why are the Collison brothers different?
        
           | samwillis wrote:
           | I think it's to some extent the good old Irish charm, and I
           | say that as someone married to a much better Irish other
           | half.
        
           | ralston3 wrote:
           | IMO...value. I personally feel like it's always easier for
           | founders to stay on when their product provides actual,
           | tangible, objective value. It clearly shows that they (the
           | founders) sort've know their market, and know what they're
           | doing (to some degree). When that's the case, I feel
           | investors are happy to get out of the way and watch their
           | equity rise. Whereas when a service isn't providing any real
           | differential value, it's a lot easier to try to swap out the
           | founders for the MBA/finance/corporate type that doesn't
           | really know the market/audience.
        
           | itsoktocry wrote:
           | > _How often do young founders actually hang onto leadership
           | this long without either imploding or being replaced? Why are
           | the Collison brothers different?_
           | 
           | Stripe is great, so I assume these guys are good leaders. But
           | Stripe was founded in 2011. Are there not plenty of young
           | founders of that era "hanging on" to their leadership? I
           | don't see anything particularly out of the ordinary here.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | asd88 wrote:
       | More like $50B unicorn nowadays?
        
         | clra wrote:
         | It's hard to tell given the private stock and all, but the
         | article mentions that there's reason to believe the company
         | hasn't taken quite as much of a haircut as comparable ones that
         | are already on the public markets:
         | 
         | > _In March, Fidelity, required to publicly update the value of
         | its holdings, marked down Stripe by 20%. Most unicorns--
         | startups valued at $1 billion or more--are trading on the
         | secondary markets at 20% to 40% discounts to their last
         | official venture capital rounds. But Stripe's shares remain
         | hard for new investors to obtain and in high demand, with
         | recent transactions implying a valuation of as much as $165
         | billion, per New York-based EquityZen, a marketplace for pre-
         | IPO shares._
        
           | __derek__ wrote:
           | Does buying private stock on EquityZen include any due
           | diligence? I'm skeptical that it's helping with price
           | discovery, but I don't really understand the platform.
           | 
           | The topic reminded me of a good episode of Invest Like the
           | Best with Carta CEO Henry Ward[1], which included a
           | discussion of their CartaX platform for offering insiders a
           | chance to sell private stock to institutions.
           | 
           | [1]: https://podcasts.apple.com/ma/podcast/henry-ward-
           | transformin...
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | nope. $90 billion more likely. You have to add 30-50% for the
         | IPO pop.
        
         | WXLCKNO wrote:
         | Can you take stock of a public competitor in the same industry
         | and simply apply its price movements to a private valuation?
        
           | Ferrotin wrote:
           | Simply, but not precisely. The same macroeconomic factors
           | that affect the public companies' value apply.
        
       | newaccount2021 wrote:
       | absolutely ZERO chance they could get a $95B valuation in public
       | markets today
       | 
       | HN/VCs also said Uber was a $150B company...Lyft was a $50B
       | company...Peloton was a $40B company...
       | 
       | if Stripe went public today, I would say they would be lucky to
       | crest at a $30B valuation, even that may be lofty...PayPal has 3x
       | market share as Stripe and has a $92B valuation
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | > HN/VCs also said Uber was a $150B company...Lyft was a $50B
         | company...Peloton was a $40B company...
         | 
         | Exactly.
         | 
         | The hype squad have been screaming about the valuations of
         | these companies and now look at them as soon as they IPOed.
         | Neither of them are profitable companies.
         | 
         | It just means the VCs, insiders and everyone else who got was
         | in before the IPO made a windfall in their stock and by now
         | cashed out. The news hyping up the IPO to retail investors and
         | left them holding the bags again as the market drops.
         | 
         | I would expect Stripe to delay their (eventual) IPO.
        
           | tomatowurst wrote:
           | So basically every YC backed company that has IPO'd
        
           | puranjay wrote:
           | I find it a little absurd that companies now take longer than
           | human beings to start making money. In that you graduate high
           | school/college at 18-22 and start making money - "being
           | profitable", so to speak.
           | 
           | There are starups right now that were founded before 2010,
           | went public, and say they will be profitable in 5-7 years
           | time
           | 
           | That's 18-20 years without a profit!?!
        
             | newaccount2021 wrote:
        
         | ElFitz wrote:
         | I have no idea on how to figure out a startup's valuation.
         | 
         | But I wouldn't compare an infrastructure / platform like Stripe
         | to B2C nice-to-haves for rich-ish people like Uber or Lyft or
         | cute expensive jokes like Peloton.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | yeah, Stipe is a not something that can be dismissed as a fad
           | like Palaton. no comparison.
        
         | goodoldneon wrote:
         | Uber peaked at ~$150 billion market cap. Peloton peaked ~$55
         | billion market cap.
         | 
         | They were absolutely overvalued at those market caps, but it's
         | wrong to say that "HN/VCs said those companies were worth X but
         | they didn't reach X in public markets"
        
           | clint wrote:
           | They reached it, but were quickly proven wrong
        
           | itsoktocry wrote:
           | > _They were absolutely overvalued at those market caps, but
           | it 's wrong to say that "HN/VCs said those companies were
           | worth X but they didn't reach X in public markets"_
           | 
           | Why is it wrong? You think private markets are better
           | indicators of value than public?
        
             | lowkey_ wrote:
             | No, he's saying literally they did reach X market cap in a
             | public market. He was correcting facts of the previous
             | poster.
        
               | nwienert wrote:
               | If Shaq lifts me up so I can dunk, you can say that I
               | dunked, but in general it's more accurate to evaluate
               | things under more normal circumstances.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | Stipe is in a way better position than Lyft and Peloton ever
         | were
         | 
         | The $90 billion is without the IPO pop. It would be worth $90
         | billion after the IPO pop maybe today. In late 2021, maybe $120
         | billion.
        
       | m00dy wrote:
       | Let's see what will happen for them in this bear market.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | The Nasdaq fell as much as it did during Covid, but without any
         | obvious cause or catalyst for the selling. the bear market is
         | probably over now. More likely this is the bottom.
        
         | laluser wrote:
         | This is exactly why they prefer to stay private. Stock
         | volatility would be wild. They will have access to liquidity
         | and funding for a while as long as they are growing a good
         | rate, which they seem to be.
        
           | tomatowurst wrote:
           | Doubtful as those sources of funding are also beholden to
           | investors who most likely have positions in the market. There
           | can be no isolation in modern finance, everything is
           | interconnected.
           | 
           | If the rates continue to rise and market gets bearish on
           | paying multiples on revenues, its going to run into serious
           | liquidity crunch.
        
       | throwaway5752 wrote:
       | What the hell is a unicorn at this point? Just say "successful
       | private company". Because of the craziness in valuations, $1B
       | pre-public isn't that rare any more, so "unicorn" is not apt. But
       | Crunchbase says they've had 20+ funding rounds, and there should
       | be some limit at the D or E round.
       | 
       | Nothing against Stripe, Stripe is great.
        
       | kpennell wrote:
       | FWIW - Accepted and ghosted: interviewing for a leadership
       | position at Stripe -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29387264
       | 
       | I know Stripe is a darling YC company but if you look for it, you
       | can find some usually anonymous detractors.
       | 
       | "+1. Also a founder of an $XB fintech. Exact same story. Patrick
       | + John dangled an acquisition to get a look inside, and ended up
       | re-trading on the terms. Then proceeded to target 2 of our team
       | members to recruit. Fast forward a few years, and now they have
       | deployed a team to directly copy one of our products. Amongst
       | their L2 team, Patrick and Will are described as the "killers". I
       | guess maybe a bit of duplicity is required to build a company of
       | that size..."
        
         | vlovich123 wrote:
         | > but if you look for it, you can find some usually anonymous
         | detractors.
         | 
         | Seems like a vacuous statement. Isn't that true of
         | anything/anyone in life?
        
           | kpennell wrote:
           | Totally Fair. But just felt like this needed to be shared
           | here since HN is always a Stripe cheerleading place.
           | 
           | Another good one:
           | 
           | For those who have worked around and at Stripe for the past
           | decade, this is not a surprise. Stripe, and especially the
           | founders, have a quite a poor reputation for screwing over
           | people in and around their orbit. Almost every fintech
           | startup has the story of Patrick reaching out about an
           | acquisition, mining them for information playing along and
           | then ghosting - same thing for candidates. They leadership
           | team, specifically Patrick and Will Gaybrick are extremely
           | smart but have screwed over a ton of people - be very careful
           | about trusting.
           | 
           | You don't hear anything about this online, they're incredibly
           | effective at squashing hit pieces and have a huge amount of
           | reporters and power brokers under their control. On HN and
           | silicon valley Stripe and Patrick are a PR machine. Patrick
           | has almost direct control over YC and HN, you'll notice that
           | every single Stripe post automatically has pc as the first
           | comment, regardless of anything else. Everything negative
           | gets buried.
           | 
           | With Patrick now living in Woodside, Will on permanent
           | vacation in Malibu and John permanently in Ireland the
           | company is definitely a bit in chaos mode internally. Their
           | entire people team has turned over and they're having major
           | retention issues - so I'm not super surprised that stuff like
           | this is starting to leak out.
           | 
           | I run a $XB fintech, and am afraid to use my name given the
           | backlash.
        
             | pvg wrote:
             | _this needed to be shared_
             | 
             | You're welcome to write your own critique of Stripe or
             | anything else but recycling other people's HN drama is not
             | really in the spirit of the site. Repasting an old
             | provocative comment while withholding context (i.e. not
             | linking it and its rebuttals) is extra lame.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tempnow987 wrote:
         | And for everyone of these stories is a story of a startup that
         | screwed its employees during a buyout by another big firm while
         | founders walked in the gravy.
         | 
         | I've found a lot of the "secrets" really aren't that. The ideas
         | are usually pretty public, and the questions come down to
         | ability to execute and integrate etc. Stripe has a good
         | position from which to expand linked lines.
        
       | lambda_lord wrote:
       | Is it unusual for a successful company like Stripe to take so
       | long to go public? It seems like their house is in order, and
       | they are profitable, but employees aren't liquid.
        
         | etaioinshrdlu wrote:
         | Is there any reason they can't do a direct listing without
         | selling any new shares?
         | 
         | The only downside for the company seems to be that employees
         | would be able to sell, and that seems rather greedy for the
         | company to not work in its employee's best interest.
        
         | taw89345 wrote:
         | There have been liquidity events before, which allowed old
         | enough employees to sell shares. You will find that many a
         | former employee has managed to leave while being able to
         | exercise their options and have a partial cash out with a lot
         | of money to spare. So it's not been an exercise of keeping
         | employees tied down. A visibility one is Will Larson: You bet
         | that he didn't leave without being able to sell shares to cover
         | AMT, and getting some immediate payout.
         | 
         | As for why stay private, what John C has said publicly is that
         | they still see a lot of growth to go, and that not having to
         | provide detailed financian statements to the general public,
         | which would include competitors, is a competitive advantage. It
         | seems believable to me.
        
           | thecosas wrote:
           | https://stripe.com/files/stripe-2021-update.pdf
        
         | SilverBirch wrote:
         | I think this is almost a case of a company being _too
         | successful_. The general pattern is that you grow, you raise
         | money, you grow, you raise money, you grow, your IPO. At each
         | stage of growth there 's a different investor. Initially you
         | have Angels and YC style places. Then you have various stages
         | of VC, then you finally have the public market.
         | 
         | What _normally_ happens is that you become too big and that 's
         | when VCs step out of the way, you IPO and everyone takes their
         | gains. But in the case of stripe you have $100Bn company that
         | the VCs will still happily plough money into. So there's no
         | reason to IPO. You can get all the liquidity you need
         | privately. On top of that, Stripe doesn't really need capital,
         | they aren't some uber buying market share with loss making.
         | They are real SAAS, they can scale and see a drop in their
         | earnings:cost ratio.
        
         | jadbox wrote:
         | What happen if they never go public at this stage?
        
           | brianwawok wrote:
           | There are many private companies. Some are very big. See
           | space-X as a popular example.
        
         | tomatowurst wrote:
         | IPO right now is very difficult as the door is closing, and
         | investors are wary about paying a premium like they have
         | before. They delayed it too long and have missed the window, it
         | is unlikely from a year from now they will be able to get any
         | bids for the current market valuations.
        
           | colinmhayes wrote:
           | I mean why didn't they IPO last year with everyone else?
        
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