[HN Gopher] Tell HN: I made $1000 with my app and now making $50...
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       Tell HN: I made $1000 with my app and now making $500/mo
        
       Edit: Wow #1 on HN. Y'all are making my day.  Hey HN,  I'm mostly a
       lurker on HN who's always super inspired by other people's small
       project that end-up making money. (Huge fan of Ben Stoke's Tiny
       Project [0])  After being burnt-out in big tech, I decided to write
       my own weightlifting app and set myself a humble goal of reaching
       $1000 in total proceeds. See [1] for my initial launch post.  I've
       now surpassed that goal and am now making about 500$/mo by selling
       premium features in the app. Android version is coming soon too.
       Doing the whole thing end-to-end (code, launch, marketing, support)
       was super gratifying and taught me a whole lot. I have to admit
       that I got almost teary eyed the first time someone bought one of
       my IAPs.  I'm not making a killing out of the app, and that was
       never the goal. But the personal satisfaction I got out of it was
       worth everything. I can't pretend to have derived any life lesson
       that applies to everybody from this, but this whole mini-journey
       was worth it for me, and I hope it will be for you too, should you
       embark in a similar one.  [0] https://tinyprojects.dev/  [1]
       https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27507452
        
       Author : strongpigeon
       Score  : 403 points
       Date   : 2022-05-25 17:50 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
       | ta3411 wrote:
       | Can I ask about your experience implementing Stripe Connect
       | Express, especially how did you choose that over Stripe Connect
       | Standard? My understanding is you have to do more heavy lifting
       | integration work, pay monthly fee per account, KYC, and are
       | responsible for refunds for Express. Whereas a lot of that are
       | taken care of in Standard.
        
       | MrDresden wrote:
       | Congrats! I hope to follow your lead one of these days
        
       | bambax wrote:
       | Excellent, congrats!
       | 
       | Can you elaborate on IAPs (or other insights)? The app is free,
       | yes? Then what can users buy while using the app?
        
         | flanbiscuit wrote:
         | Found this on the iOS App store page:
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/five-three-one/id1560266240
         | 
         | Features include:
         | 
         | - Planning and scheduling your whole 5/3/1 cycle
         | 
         | - Charting your progress
         | 
         | - Rest timer with notifications
         | 
         | - Automatic plating calculation
         | 
         | - Calculating your next cycle based on your performance
         | 
         | - Notes associated with each sets
         | 
         | - Home screen widget showing your your current and upcoming
         | workouts
         | 
         | - Lbs/kg support
         | 
         | Optional paid features:
         | 
         | - Customize which plates you're using and change your barbell's
         | weight
         | 
         | - Customize templates assistance work and define your own
         | exercises
         | 
         | - Beyond 5/3/1 templates and options, from Joker Sets to FSL,
         | Pyramid and much more!
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | My thinking was that unless you have a killer video / app store
         | page, people won't pay for a brand new app. I'm not really good
         | at this part, so I figured I'd just make the base app for free
         | (you can do most workout templates from the first book), and
         | charge for features. If people like the app, they'll feel
         | invested and will want to invest more by buying features.
         | 
         | Right now there are 3 Premium Features : - Custom Plating [0]:
         | Which allows users to define which weight plates they have for
         | the calculator - Custom Assistance [1]: Which allows users to
         | customize the assistance sets they have - Beyond 5/3/1 Pack
         | [2]: Which contains stuff from the Beyond 5/3/1 book.
         | 
         | The thinking was that most of the stuff from the base app, you
         | can easily do with the tools already out there (e.g. the black
         | iron beast calculator), but that people would pay for new
         | capabilities.
         | 
         | [0] https://fivethreeone.app/custom-plating [1]
         | https://fivethreeone.app/custom-assistance [2]
         | https://fivethreeone.app/beyond-pack
        
         | danuker wrote:
         | https://fivethreeone.app/
         | 
         | Custom Plating
         | 
         | Custom Assistance
         | 
         | Beyond 5/3/1 Pack: Joker Sets, First Set Last, Boring But Big
         | Challenges...
        
       | aschismatic wrote:
       | I checked out your app because I've been wanting something like
       | it but hadn't bothered looking at what was out there yet. Looks
       | great!
       | 
       | One thing I noticed though is that both barbell weight
       | customization and plate customization is coupled together in one
       | purchase. I feel like you may want to separate barbell weight
       | into a free customization option because barbells made
       | specifically for women tend to be lighter (~33lbs). By charging
       | for barbell weight customization, you're inadvertently creating a
       | difference in experience between men and women (for the base app,
       | no purchases).
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | Congratulations, if you were me then your app would be covering
       | your rent!
        
         | deathanatos wrote:
         | ... where I am it's $2,700/mo.
         | 
         | ... my brother just moved to Podunksville, TN, and the rent on
         | a 1 bd is $900/mo...
        
           | egypturnash wrote:
           | man, I left Seattle when my shitty 2br in the U got up to
           | like $1200/mo after climbing $100/mo like clockwork every
           | year. You are a couple orders of magnitude richer than I am
           | if you can afford that. Which is not surprising given that
           | I'm a lazy freelance artist who mostly draws furry porn and
           | your last few comments indicate you're a Senior Software
           | Engineer at a FAANG.
           | 
           | Now my husband and I are splitting $950 for a 3br in New
           | Orleans. It's pretty nice once you get inured to the fact
           | that everything you own and love in this world, including
           | you, could be washed away in a hurricane. And the "holy shit
           | I am a trans living in the one queer-friendly hotspot in what
           | is otherwise a very red state" thing. The place is _full_ of
           | artists who could stop worrying about where most of their
           | rent is coming from if they got $500 /month coming in from
           | somewhere.
        
       | lwhi wrote:
       | Great work! This is inspiring .. great to hear.
       | 
       | What are you thinking next?
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | I'm almost done with the Android version and will start working
         | on an Apple Watch companion app right after that (which I think
         | I could charge $15-20 for). I was semi-hoping they'd announce
         | Flutter for wearables at Google I/O alongside the Pixel watch,
         | but looks like I'll have to learn a bit more iOS stuff.
        
       | m12k wrote:
       | >I can't pretend to have derived any life lesson that applies to
       | everybody from this
       | 
       | Part of what attracted me to software engineering in the first
       | place was an interest in "how things work", and being able to
       | move between levels of abstraction (e.g. I know how IP, DNS, TCP,
       | HTTP and JSON works, but most of the time I can just treat it as
       | "sending objects"). So it was a bit of a eureka moment for me to
       | realize that running a company is really just expanding the
       | levels of abstraction that you operate with. It doesn't matter
       | how well you code if people can't understand the user interface,
       | so I got an interest in UX and usability. But it doesn't matter
       | how user friendly it is, if it doesn't solve the right problem
       | for people, so I got an interest in product development and
       | customer research. It doesn't matter how good a product is if
       | people never hear about it, so I got an interest in marketing and
       | sales. And it doesn't matter how well I do all of that if I can't
       | pay the bills, so I got an interest in pricing and monetization
       | strategies.
       | 
       | Juggling all those needs, and trying to shape the company and all
       | its aspects into a cohesive whole is just as demanding and
       | interesting as doing the same for a software project - it's just
       | expanding the scope of which requirements and concerns you bring
       | into the equation. For me at least, it's also been very rewarding
       | to do the whole thing end-to-end, and it's felt like more of a
       | natural extension of my ever-broadening interests than I would
       | have expected. Bookkeeping can be as annoying as debugging, but
       | in the end I'm really grateful that I understand how each detail
       | works.
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | Good analogy, and cool story. IME real-world events rarely
         | follow such a linear narrative but I found your company from
         | your profile, and like that its blog --
         | https://www.hrvey.com/blog -- shares insights from an
         | "entrepreneurial journey" perspective. Congrats!
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | Thanks, this was a nice read.
         | 
         | And closing with...
         | 
         | > Bookkeeping can be as annoying as debugging, but in the end
         | I'm really grateful that I understand how each detail works.
         | 
         | ... hits home for me, haha. Never thought I was going to
         | understand - let alone like - bookkeeping. What maybe helped,
         | was me making my own bookkeeping app, it also forced me to
         | understand the rules.
        
       | yboris wrote:
       | Thank you for sharing! I wish more people were transparent about
       | money (to know what's possible).
       | 
       | In my example, I created _Video Hub App_ that sells for $5 (and
       | $3.50 goes to a _cost-effective_ charity). I 'm averaging about
       | $500 for over a year now (with almost $15,000 donated to
       | charity).
       | 
       | https://videohubapp.com/ & https://github.com/whyboris/Video-Hub-
       | App (MIT open source)
        
       | newbie578 wrote:
       | Can anyone share what is their thought process regarding on
       | deciding what app to build? Say you have a Word document with 15
       | different ideas, how do you decide which one is worth investing?
        
         | ffhhj wrote:
         | In my case, the one that has a larger community where it can be
         | promoted at low cost.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | I built this app because I wanted to use it. Being user 0 is
         | really helpful and is quite fun I can say.
        
       | allenu wrote:
       | Well done! $500/mo, though not crazy money, is significant.
       | 
       | How did you market your app and how long did it take you to build
       | out the app?
       | 
       | I've built an app as well while I was doing my regular day job
       | and recently quit the day job, mostly due to being burned out
       | working in big tech as well.
       | 
       | During my break from work, I decided to try to get my app sales
       | up, but it's challenging. (During my best month, I think I got up
       | to $200/mo but it's more like $100/mo right now.) As many others
       | before me have found, marketing is the key, and I'm still
       | learning that game. So, $500/mo is really good stuff.
       | 
       | That said, building the app and making my users happy is
       | something that is incredibly gratifying, and something that was
       | missing in my previous 9-5.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you! I feel you 100% when you say that keeping user happy
         | is incredibly gratifying.
         | 
         | The app took me about 300-400 hours to build. Regarding
         | marketing, I've said it elsewhere in the thread but here it is
         | again:
         | 
         | - Created an instagram account for the app and started
         | following some tags. I liked post on the tags and started
         | following some users to get them to look at my profile. Got
         | about 150 downloads from that.
         | 
         | - Made a 5/3/1 Calculator website. The goal was to make
         | something useful to boost the SEO of my domain. What really
         | ended up happening is the calculator ranks usually number 2 on
         | Google and then users see the link to the app in there and
         | click on it. Got about 200 downloads from that.
         | 
         | - Apple Search Ads gives you $100 credit. Got a bunch of
         | downloads with this
         | 
         | - I used Bing Ads credits but wasn't too impressed with what I
         | was getting from there though
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | Yep, all money is money and can make a difference to anyone.
         | 
         | I live in the bay area, and though my rent is a lot more than
         | $500/mo, if I put $500/mo _more_ toward rent I really _could_
         | have a much nicer apartment, for example. Or it could be the
         | monthly payment for an EV.
         | 
         | $500/mo can be a nice quality of life boost even in the most
         | expensive parts of the world even if it's not enough to live on
         | just that.
         | 
         | Back when I was doing my PhD, on a $2300/mo research
         | assistantship salary in Boston, I also built a webapp that got
         | me ~$200-300/mo for several years and close to $900/mo for one
         | of those years. That alone allowed me to do lots of things I
         | wanted to do at the time (e.g. ~2 overseas vacations a year and
         | several self-supported long distance bike trips). Savings
         | wasn't a huge concern at the time because I knew I could get a
         | decent-paying job post-graduation.
        
       | FooBarBizBazz wrote:
       | Congrats! At 4% yield, that's like you've made (and invested)
       | $150k, after tax. Before tax that'd be a yearly salary of well
       | over $200k. If you can do 2 of those every year, you're on par
       | with mid-level FAANG comp, once you include RSUs. There's
       | probably a benefits and self-employment tax angle I'm leaving out
       | though. And surely it's more volatile. But if you can keep it up
       | it seems pretty solid.
        
       | sjskwaiwn wrote:
       | 5/3/1 is a powerlifting/strength training/weight training/weight
       | lifting program.
       | 
       | Weightlifting refers to Olympic weightlifting. Weightlifters are
       | those who snatch and clean & jerk.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | itslennysfault wrote:
       | Awesome. Congrats!
       | 
       | Did you do anything to promote the app? (other than posting it
       | here and organic searches on the app store)
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you!
         | 
         | See my other comment for what I did to promote the app [0].
         | 
         | Short version: Instagram account to follow people and have them
         | look at my profile. Useful website with a link to my app as
         | "content marketing" and Apple Search Ads.
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31508328
        
       | bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
       | Congrats! That is a significant milestone.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you!
        
       | Zababa wrote:
       | > I can't pretend to have derived any life lesson that applies to
       | everybody from this
       | 
       | Kudos for being honest about this, it's rare these days.
       | Congratulations and I wish you the best.
        
       | unity1001 wrote:
       | > Doing the whole thing end-to-end (code, launch, marketing,
       | support) was super gratifying and taught me a whole lot
       | 
       | Yep. Just putting out one single app by doing everything teaches
       | you a LOT about tech and makes you start giving due respect to
       | every single specialization that exists in tech - from
       | development to support to marketing.
        
       | OnlyMortal wrote:
       | We'll done! Keep going.
       | 
       | Be aware that you may find premium feature take up/download ratio
       | lower on Android.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you!
         | 
         | That's what I'm expecting. I'm mostly doing the Android version
         | for my friends and for the "brand awareness" of the app. I'm
         | curious to see how that'll turn out.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | I'm on Android, and would possibly use this. Would your app
           | work for tracking the Starting Strength program (3x5 sets
           | 3x/week, not 5/3/1) or is it very exclusive to 5/3/1
           | tracking?
        
             | strongpigeon wrote:
             | Right now it's only 5/3/1. But the 5's progression template
             | from Beyond 5/3/1 is similar enough. Feel free to look at
             | the online calculator to get a sense of the template.
             | https://fivethreeone.app/calculator
        
       | dimitrios1 wrote:
       | I love that there is so much opportunity in the indie space, and
       | hope it doesn't go away.
       | 
       | There are a ton of great apps to be made, with better UIs and
       | functionality than existing entrants that aren't made by big
       | companies because they don't offer enterprise-sized war chests
       | and moats. Can't make enough to pay for a bunch of MBAs,
       | managers, and SEO, Creative, and Engineering teams, so they don't
       | get made. But it's certainly enough for a few driven people.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Congrats! 5-3-1 is a great name and a great program.
        
       | ronyeh wrote:
       | Congrats! Downloaded.
       | 
       | Relevant to today's discussion, did you use SwiftUI or the ol
       | reliable UIKit?
       | 
       | Here's the url for those who are looking:
       | 
       | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/five-three-one/id1560266240
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | The app is built using Flutter, but I'm using SwiftUI for the
         | home screen widget.
        
           | mylons wrote:
           | why did you use Flutter?
        
             | strongpigeon wrote:
             | I wanted to give it a shot. The instant hot-reload got me
             | hooked. I was already super familiar with Dart too (I
             | worked on Google Ads before, front-end is in Dart).
        
       | afrnz wrote:
       | Very impressive and bravo on your success! I love seeing indie
       | hackers launching their projects and get positive feedback in the
       | form of revenue. Also appreciate the weightlifting focus, will
       | check out the app for sure.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you!
        
       | reducesuffering wrote:
       | Congrats! What does your tech stack look like? How long did it
       | take you?
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | The app is written in Flutter. There is no backend except that
         | I use Firebase Crashlytics to catch bugs that make it to
         | releases. The web calculator is built using ReactJS and uses
         | Firebase hosting (still low enough traffic to be under the free
         | tier)
        
           | csunbird wrote:
           | If there is no backend, and also if you are not collecting
           | any personal data, maybe you can add a "privacy friendly,
           | your personal data is not collected" marketing section as
           | well. Although I am not sure if your users would care about
           | that.
        
             | strongpigeon wrote:
             | That's a good point. My app store Privacy Section is pretty
             | clean, but I might put it on the front page of my marketing
             | site.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | Yay Flutter!
           | 
           | Any reason you had to use ReactJS embedded in Flutter, I
           | imagine you could of done that with Dart
        
             | strongpigeon wrote:
             | Sorry if I wasn't too clear. I haven't embedded ReactJS in
             | Flutter. I just made an online calculator [0] in ReactJS
             | for people who prefer not using apps. Could I have use
             | Flutter for that? Probably, but I wanted to try React so I
             | did.
             | 
             | [0] https://fivethreeone.app/calculator
        
               | 999900000999 wrote:
               | Ohh neat, I have a project with Flutter Web, so I imagine
               | you could of built your existing app for web.
               | 
               | But it tends to not look all that great
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | davidkuennen wrote:
       | Very good. Congrats.
       | 
       | I made an app 2 years ago and make around 10,000$/month currently
       | with it. Keep going!
        
         | ayewo wrote:
         | Go on, tell us more ...
        
       | izolate wrote:
       | Great job! This is inspiring to all us indie hackers out there.
        
       | mrlagmer wrote:
       | Hey nice work. I have been getting into weight lifting once I hit
       | 40 and really enjoy it. I suggest looking at stronglifts app if
       | you want to see how to grow this. That app is great and after a
       | week I had gone to the premium subscription.
       | 
       | I feel you are missing customers with the site saying that the
       | app assumes you know how to do 5/3/1.
       | 
       | You should have a how to page on your site. Anyway great work
       | congrats.
        
       | sound1 wrote:
       | > I can't pretend to have derived any life lesson that applies to
       | everybody from this, but this whole mini-journey was worth it for
       | me, and I hope it will be for you too, should you embark in a
       | similar one.
       | 
       | You have a new fan. Hearty congratulations and wish you a
       | continued success!! You are an inspiration :-)
        
       | bm-rf wrote:
       | side note, I love the strong pigeon website! What a team!
        
       | gigatexal wrote:
       | Congrats. 500 a month is nothing to laugh at. Relocate this a few
       | times and you're living the indie dev's dream!
        
       | nchudleigh wrote:
       | This is awesome, I love workout tracking and am currently doing a
       | 5/3/1 program- wish that I had a iOS device to try your app out.
       | Love the way you have structured the IAPs and the look of the app
       | from the screenshots.
       | 
       | Currently using Strong (more than 400 workouts logged).
       | 
       | Curious, how did you go about marketing this?
        
       | Ventito wrote:
       | Cool app. Very impressive that it makes that much :)
       | 
       | I thought about an fitness app myself. I'm curious when it will
       | be available: With ML you could really analyse what someone is
       | doing and counting and basically playing fitness coache for you
       | including proper counting of your things.
        
       | aryamansharda wrote:
       | Congrats on the success! I just started a newsletter - Indie
       | Watch (http://indie.watch/) - that features cool apps built by
       | indie iOS developers.
       | 
       | Would you mind if I featured your app in our first release?
       | 
       | Since it's our first release, I can't guarantee any results or
       | conversions, but the mailing list has a few hundred people on it,
       | so it couldn't hurt...
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you! For sure! My email is in my profile
        
       | bgroat wrote:
       | $500/mth is $6,000/yr
       | 
       | At a 4% safe withdrawal rate what you've built is the equivilent
       | of saving $150,000.
       | 
       | You should be EXTREMELY proud of yourself, and never
       | underestimate the power and value of the asset you've built
        
         | andymcsherry wrote:
         | This is a business, it's not passive income. It requires
         | maintenance, support, etc. If he were to just let it ride,
         | income might increase for a while but ultimately wither out and
         | die.
        
         | acover wrote:
         | Will this app pay 6000 a year for 25 years?
         | 
         | It's an impressive creation but this is not a good way to value
         | it.
        
           | jjice wrote:
           | I think the comment more so referred to the returns that
           | $150,000 would yield at a 4% SWR, not necessarily that it'll
           | generate that much eventually, just the equivalent SWR return
           | amount.
        
         | Ventito wrote:
         | I think its a great achievement in itself but your post does
         | push people in the thinking of 'i can just make a no work
         | sustainable something as a service app and become rich'.
         | 
         | I don't think it works.
         | 
         | I think the best bet by far is either to optimize your job
         | salary (switching after 2-3 years, being proactive, trying
         | leetcode, persuing FAANG) or following FIRE.
         | 
         | $500 would be 5h per month freelancing.
         | 
         | And to be really fair, he would first calculate all hours
         | invested and he needs to calculate/estimate further time
         | involvment.
         | 
         | For creating your own small company/business, thats probably a
         | doable thing but still much more high risk than anything else.
        
           | frontman1988 wrote:
           | Yeah leaving you job at Google to do this is not recommended
           | in 99% of the cases. Especially in a recession.
        
         | moosedev wrote:
         | Without taking anything away from OP's achievement, I'd caution
         | against this kind of exuberant comparison without some
         | qualification around it. The risks to that app's continuing to
         | yield $500/month in perpetuity are quite different (and, I dare
         | say, worse) than the risks faced by the kind of balanced
         | portfolio that "safe withdrawal rate" implies (to me). I
         | acknowledge that you didn't directly compare with such a
         | portfolio, but you did say the app is "the equivalent of saving
         | $150,000" - again, if this is true it's in a very limited sense
         | only: the app and the cash face a very different set of risks.
        
           | xbar wrote:
           | This is fair, but as a milestone in long-term self-
           | sufficiency, creating a $500/mo app is significant
           | achievement.
           | 
           | Saving $150,000 is, too.
           | 
           | Which is more likely to lead to true self-sufficiency?
           | Barring other possibilities, the savings. But given human
           | response to positive feedback loops, a successful dev often
           | becomes a more successful dev overtime. Hence, I favor the
           | "first app I wrote that made $500/mo" is more significant.
        
             | xwdv wrote:
             | Didn't really want to go down this route but since you guys
             | wanted to I would also point out the OP likely hasn't been
             | making $500/mo for a full year yet so to make that kind of
             | projection is premature. I think at best he will make that
             | for a few months then it will taper off within the year as
             | the app gets less popular.
             | 
             | You can't just say your app makes $500/mo without giving
             | the time period for how long it has been making that.
             | Generally if it's not revealed it's because it hasn't been
             | very long.
        
               | maximus-decimus wrote:
               | Mandatory XKCD on the dangers of extrapolating :
               | https://xkcd.com/605/
        
               | strongpigeon wrote:
               | The app made $300 last month and $500 this month. It
               | indeed hasn't been very long, and I agree that $500/mo is
               | a bit of a generous take. However I do plan on adding
               | extra paid features which I think will push that even
               | further.
        
               | meetups323 wrote:
               | The market is massive, play your cards right and this
               | could be just the beginning. Do you speak to users in
               | person much and have an idea of what people want?
        
               | strongpigeon wrote:
               | I speak to a couple of users directly through email. An
               | Apple Watch companion seems to be what people want the
               | most so that's what I'll be working on next
        
           | sjburt wrote:
           | I think a better comparison is what similar apps would sell
           | for. 2-4x annual revenue seems to be common. So $12-$24k
           | which is not bad!
        
         | kqr wrote:
         | Despite the valid criticisms against the specifics of your
         | comment, I found this perspective interesting.
         | 
         | You could model the specifics differently, of course: maybe we
         | assume the $500/month is a peak and it tapers off exponentially
         | somehow. What sort of capital returns does this correspond to?
         | 
         | I haven't done the maths, so I don't know, but the fact that I
         | can even ask the question means I've learned something from
         | your comment that I didn't know before!
        
           | nonameiguess wrote:
           | Asset valuation is a rich pre-existing field that doesn't
           | need to be reinvented. The real cash-equivalent value of this
           | app is, of course, the market value you could get trying to
           | sell it, but that just offloads the value estimate to the
           | potential buyer(s). The computation is extremely
           | straightforward for a perpetuity, which is where the estimate
           | here is coming from. At a 4% annual discount rate, a
           | perpetuity that pays $500 a month forever has a net present
           | value of $150,000.
           | 
           | However, as others have hinted at, assuming this app will
           | continue to generate $500 a month forever at roughly the same
           | risk premium as a perpetuity from any remotely reputable
           | seller is dubious at best. Major banks and insurers that have
           | existed for several centuries have histories of selling
           | instruments like these that actually have paid out their
           | promised coupon value for many decades and even centuries in
           | some cases. In contrast, the Apple App Store has existed for
           | almost 14 years. The 5/3/1 strength program has existed for
           | 13 years.
           | 
           | What are the chances this app can generate the same revenue
           | for the next 30 years? You can't rely on just keeping the
           | existing users due to the way lifters tend to program-hop
           | eventually. Anyone doing 5/3/1 today is unlikely to be doing
           | it in 30 years. Then you have to factor in the possibility of
           | competition. I'm kind of surprised the author of the 5/3/1
           | books has never bothered to commission an app and apparently
           | only distributes official spreadsheets for generating a
           | program template and workout log. If he ever does, any
           | unofficial app seems unlikely to survive.
           | 
           | Not to take away from the work. I think this is the right
           | idea. The developer wanted something that didn't exist and
           | made it. Whether or not you ever acquire a single customer
           | other than yourself, I think that is worth doing. But if
           | anyone in this comment thread truly thinks it is worth
           | $150,000, offer him $150,000 and I'm sure he'll be glad to
           | sell.
        
         | POiNTx wrote:
         | Can you breakdown this calculation? I'm familiar with FIRE and
         | SWR but how do you get to the $150,000 number?
         | 
         | [EDIT] Thanks got it!
        
           | lucretian wrote:
           | $6,000 / 0.04 = $150,000. in other words, if OP had saved
           | $150,000 and was withdrawing 4% per year, they would have the
           | same $6,000 as what the app is generating.
           | 
           | the analogy is imperfect, because presumably the OP is
           | spending some time to generate that app income; it's not
           | totally passive.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Jake232 wrote:
           | 4% of $150k is $6k, which is $500 * 12.
        
           | jdasdf wrote:
           | 6000/0.04 = 150 000
           | 
           | Essentially, those 6K a year is the equivalent of a 150K
           | portfolio
        
             | cinntaile wrote:
             | I want to push back against this a little. He gets
             | $500/month now, there is no guarantee he will keep
             | receiving that number when he stops maintaining and
             | improving his app. I would assume the number will go up if
             | he keeps improving it, but if he stops it will eventually
             | become 0$/month.
        
               | jackblemming wrote:
               | There's no guarantee $150k invested will have 4% returns
               | either.
        
               | p_j_w wrote:
               | No, but if I had to bet on one over the other, I'm going
               | with 4% returns.
        
               | beambot wrote:
               | To be fair: It will probably be easier for him to go from
               | $500/mo to $1000/mo much easier than it will be to go
               | from 4% APY to 8% APY.
        
               | jhgb wrote:
               | Doesn't time value of money decrease this effect?
               | Assuming a fixed revenue over time, future revenue is
               | much less relevant, so is its loss.
        
               | nonameiguess wrote:
               | That's what the 4% is. A perpetuity that pays out $6000 a
               | year is valued at $150,000 assuming a 4% discount rate.
               | Without a discount rate, the value of _any_ perpetuity
               | would be infinity.
        
             | CPLX wrote:
             | No it's not it's the equivalent of a $6,000 a year part
             | time job.
             | 
             | $150k in 20 years is still exactly $150k and produces
             | returns.
             | 
             | A 20 year old mobile application has no value whatsoever.
             | 
             | Difference is apples and hand grenades.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you!
        
         | tome wrote:
         | Normally web apps like this would change hands at around 3x
         | annual earnings, so OP has built the equivalent of more like
         | $18,000, which is still impressive!
        
           | bonestamp2 wrote:
           | It's a good point, but I think they're talking about lifetime
           | value rather than current value.
        
       | ushakov wrote:
       | now sell that to businesses and turn it into $500/day instead!
        
       | vegesm wrote:
       | Congrats! It's about the same I make with Android with my app (a
       | graphing calculator) [1]. Everyone says on Android you can earn
       | less, I'm curious what's your experience will be.
       | 
       | [1] https://androidcalculator.com/
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | That's one SEO friendly domain name. Nice work on the app!
        
       | TameAntelope wrote:
       | Congrats! I am always super excited/impressed by people who can
       | take something all the way like this, just because I know how
       | monumentally hard finishing any project is.
       | 
       | I'm at least decently familiar with the first half of "end-to-
       | end" but don't have a lot of experience in the back half.
       | 
       | Was there something cool/unintuitive you learned while having to
       | figure out how to market and support your weightlifting app that
       | you'd be willing to share?
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Everybody says it, but the marketing part of it matters a lot.
         | As a shape rotator, I struggle with putting myself out there
         | and really have to force myself to "just do it".
         | 
         | The app store is a big, noisy marketplace, so having other
         | channels to get people to try your app and give you ratings is
         | crucial. That really help me get through the initial wall and
         | now my app is showing up pretty high in the search result.
        
           | binkHN wrote:
           | > ...get people to ... give you ratings is crucial.
           | 
           | How were you able to promote this? Thanks.
        
             | strongpigeon wrote:
             | iOS has this control to prompt users to rate your app. I
             | made it so that the prompt appears after the user has
             | completed a workout, at which point they are probably happy
             | with the app (and aren't getting jarringly interrupted).
        
       | FredPret wrote:
       | Great app. I'm using it tonight. Well done on the cash flow, well
       | deserved. A good workout app can be life-changing.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you and hope you enjoy it! My email is in my profile if
         | you have any feedback!
        
       | kebsup wrote:
       | Good job! I know exactly the feeling. I'll once again shamelessly
       | plug my project, since it's vaguely relevant.
       | 
       | I'm making about 200 USD/month by selling watermark removals on
       | https://gifmemes.io. What I've learnt is that I'm very bad at
       | marketing & design and will much rather spend hours programming
       | useless features. For example I've spent like 10 hours getting an
       | wasm ffmpeg converter of gifs to mp4s and webms, which was not
       | used AT ALL, while most of my traffic still comes from cold-
       | writing (is it even a term) for 1 hour random people to put links
       | on their websites or subreddits.
       | 
       | The scene in the Sillicon Valley series, where Richards enhances
       | the algorithm by 1 % is quite accurate.
       | 
       | On the other hand, being the solo developer and product owner is
       | quite powerful. My implementation of billing into the app took
       | around 2 hours, which is probably less than a meeting about it
       | would take in a company.
       | 
       | Finally, I can run silly experiments. There is a button in the
       | "Buy watermark removal" page that says "It's too expensive",
       | which leads to 50 % discount. Around 70 % people still buy the
       | full price.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | > Finally, I can run silly experiments. There is a button in
         | the "Buy watermark removal" page that says "It's too
         | expensive", which leads to 50 % discount. Around 70 % people
         | still buy the full price.
         | 
         | I don't find that silly at all. At most it's a fun example of
         | price discrimination. A fairly big online-only florist in the
         | UK (Bloom & Wild) for example does something similar, if you
         | enter a valid voucher code but it's only for new customers, it
         | pops up telling you that 'but click here to apply 10% off
         | instead' (where the voucher might've been for 25 or whatever).
         | Clever I think - stops you thinking 'oh sod it' and shopping
         | around.
        
         | telchior wrote:
         | I love the "too expensive" button. I'm the sort of person who'd
         | probably want to test a dozen variations of that, half of them
         | being jokes, and try to figure out exactly why it works. Do you
         | know how many of the full price buyers ever click the button
         | and find out it has a discount?
        
           | kebsup wrote:
           | Nope. I have some more ideas to try, but with my sale
           | frequency once in 1-2 days, it's quite difficult to make any
           | statistical conclusions. However, since it's a meme website,
           | I don't think there are any limits on creativity of
           | psychological experiments. :D
        
         | volsa_ wrote:
         | I love the "But internet stuff should be free!" button, got a
         | chuckle out of me :P
        
       | Xeronate wrote:
       | Grats. That's awesome! How did you market it? Seems like
       | weightlifting apps has to be a pretty saturated market. Also
       | assuming its a native iOS app since there isn't an android
       | equivalent. Were you an iOS developer in big tech? Building UIs
       | feels so much nicer with the native frameworks, but I'm always
       | hesitant to do so because writing the same app twice seems so
       | grueling.
        
         | h4waii wrote:
         | I wrote my first full-blown mobile apps (fairly simple and
         | spartan) with React Native, I target both iOS and Android, and
         | it was a breeze using Expo. It's seriously good, I have no
         | affiliation, just a happy customer (I tested the paid tier out
         | but currently use the free one).
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | I agree that "weightlifting app" as a whole is pretty saturated
         | and some of the apps are pretty good too. I figured I'd have
         | more chance to stand out in a niche, namely 5/3/1 specific
         | apps.
         | 
         | I was previously a full stack SWE on Google Ads before. The app
         | is built using Flutter, so porting it to Android isn't too
         | hard. I built it using the iOS looking widget first that's what
         | I use. The Android version should be out pretty soon.
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | Bravo to you!!! Most of us have half started, unfinished projects
       | and once more you show to all of us that we should make some time
       | from our daily routines and finally just ship it ;-) I know that
       | for US and other high paying countries 500$/mo is not much but
       | for most countries it's a very respectable amount. I'm a huge fan
       | of Ben's tinyprojects and reading his posts, stories like yours
       | and other similar HN posts/comments give us courage and some of
       | the missing determination.
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | Nice to hear
       | 
       | Side note I think 'Tell HN:' is for problems, vs. 'Show HN:'
        
         | Koffiepoeder wrote:
         | I perceive it more as `interesting story` vs `interesting
         | project`. OP's project-story is right on the edge between the
         | two for me.
         | 
         | At least for Show HN there is an official guideline [0] which
         | mentions:
         | 
         | > Show HN is for something you've made that other people can
         | play with. HN users can try it out, give you feedback, and ask
         | questions in the thread.
         | 
         | Does anyone know whether there is an official `Tell HN`
         | guideline? The HN guidelines and FAQ pages don't specify
         | anything as far as I could tell.
         | 
         | [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
        
           | ge96 wrote:
           | From what I've seen on here usually 'Tell HN:' is used for
           | things like "this company banned my account for no reason" or
           | "this service is down" etc...
           | 
           | Anyway I only mention it because I looked at this post and I
           | was like "what happened/what went wrong".
        
       | shreyshnaccount wrote:
       | Congrats on the launch! Its always inspiring to see small indie
       | tech projects solving real life problems for real people, and
       | getting paid for it! That's the magic of technology! I too loved
       | Ben's tiny projects and appreciate the love that's goes into
       | making these!
        
       | silvi9 wrote:
       | Congratulations! That's incredibly impressive, and is so
       | inspiring, especially for all us fellow indie hackers out there.
       | What were your main ways of acquiring new users? Do you have any
       | marketing advice that helped you out?
       | 
       | Well done again, and wishing you continued success with your app!
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Thank you!
         | 
         | Initially I would use Instagram and follow some hashtags and
         | like people's posts and follow them to get them to look at my
         | profile (I got about 150 downloads that way).
         | 
         | One day I decided I wanted to try out ReactJs and so I made a
         | web calculator version [0]. The goal was to make something
         | better than the current incumbent (Black Iron Beast). This
         | turned out to be super helpful. It usually ranks number 2 on
         | most Google queries for 5/3/1 calculators and lead to about 200
         | downloads for the app.
         | 
         | I also started using Apple App Store Search Ad with their $100
         | credit and honestly the result are great. Having your app show
         | up first for some keywords is a huge boost.
         | 
         | [0] https://fivethreeone.app/calculator
        
         | whelton wrote:
         | Another indie hacker here, to add to OP's reply, I've been
         | using Syften[0] to monitor relevant keywords across various
         | sites to find people my product can be of value to, or I
         | provide answers to their related questions (which can lead them
         | to checking out my profile and then product).
         | 
         | I'm building Conjure[1] a habits, behavior and goals platform,
         | so I track everything from 'habits'/'productivity'/'quantified-
         | self' type keywords, to people looking for alternatives to XYZ
         | product name, to specific questions I've answered before (eg
         | organization, time tracking, building exercise habit,
         | achievement, etc).
         | 
         | [0] https://syften.com
         | 
         | [1] https://conjure.so
        
       | boplicity wrote:
       | A question, from someone who used to start lots of projects, but
       | now finds himself busy from all of those (some now quite
       | successful) projects:
       | 
       | How much daily "mental load" does something like this take? Are
       | you able to work on it when you want, and otherwise ignore? Any
       | tips for starting a small project that doesn't require ongoing
       | mental effort?
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | The fact that I'm not running a service does make it a lot
         | better. But being somewhat of a perfectionist, I do stress out
         | a lot when a user email me with a bug.
         | 
         | Being a user of the app myself reassure me that it's working
         | and that even if there might be bugs, it's probably working
         | well for the vast majority of folks.
        
       | RankingMember wrote:
       | Congrats on the success! Any chance of an Android version of that
       | app? I'm glad you made a 5/3/1-specific app; I've always had to
       | shoehorn 5/3/1 into some other "Build your own routine" apps and
       | it's always been clunky at best.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | I'm actively working on the Android version. I'm waiting on
         | some Material 3 component for Flutter to be done [0], but it's
         | almost ready to test!
         | 
         | [0] https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/91605
        
           | RankingMember wrote:
           | Great to hear
        
           | travisgriggs wrote:
           | Curious why you chose Dart/Flutter over Kotlin/Jetpack (not
           | necessarily Compose though). Could you share?
           | 
           | I hope you'll share in the future what your usage/downloads
           | look like as well as where you make money, between the two
           | phone types.
        
             | strongpigeon wrote:
             | Mostly because I wanted to give Flutter a shot. The instant
             | hot reload really got me hooked. As I also said elsewhere,
             | I was already super familiar with Dart given that I worked
             | on Google Ads (where the front-end is built using Dart).
             | 
             | I'll try to share some data on the Android version compared
             | to iOS. My gut feeling is that the rate of purchase for IAP
             | is going to be much lower, but I think it could help with
             | getting the app known (thus leading to more iOS downloads
             | as well).
        
         | conradfr wrote:
         | Personally I use FitNotes to track my workouts (5/3/1 or not)
         | and keep (the totally not responsive) http://lift.eha-ab.ca/
         | open in my mobile browser.
        
       | Knufen wrote:
       | Super cool project man, congrats. I was unable to figure it out
       | in the app, but is it possible to build your own routine instead
       | of 5/3/1? I have been looking for this kinda of app and am
       | willing to pay for it.
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | Custom Templates is a feature I go back and forth on, mainly
         | because it'd complicate the data model a lot, but also some
         | parts of the product. I might get around to it, but I'm going
         | to work on other things (Android version, Apple Watch
         | companion) first.
        
           | Knufen wrote:
           | Does the data model have to be changed? Can't it just be a
           | simple "fill exercise and how many reps/kg you want" type of
           | thing?
           | 
           | And understandable with your limited time!
        
       | s-xyz wrote:
       | Well executed app
        
       | newbie578 wrote:
       | Congrats! This is really no small achievement, being able to make
       | a profit while making mobile apps is no little thing. I saw your
       | comment that you made the app in Flutter, how come that you
       | didn't release it then for Android?
       | 
       | Also a separate question, I do wonder what was your thought
       | process for coming up with the idea for the app? Do you keep
       | somewhere a list of app ideas, or was this one you have been
       | dreaming about some time?
       | 
       | Keep going and I wish you much more success!
        
         | strongpigeon wrote:
         | I'm using the Cupertino widget to have an iOS look and feel. I
         | care a lot about the experience and I didn't want to release an
         | Android app that feels like an iOS one.
         | 
         | That being said I'm almost done making the app look great on
         | Android. I'm just waiting for some Material 3 widgets to be
         | done by the Flutter team.
         | 
         | My thought process was simple : I don't like any of the apps on
         | the App Store for 5/3/1, so I'm going to make my own!
        
           | LocalPCGuy wrote:
           | I personally would argue that shipping (and being available)
           | > than purely looking like it's 100% platform specific. But
           | it's your app, and congrats on the success so far.
        
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