[HN Gopher] Updated Proton, Unified Protection
___________________________________________________________________
Updated Proton, Unified Protection
Author : jacooper
Score : 107 points
Date : 2022-05-25 11:55 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (proton.me)
(TXT) w3m dump (proton.me)
| DavideNL wrote:
| So the "Plus" plan no longer exists, and the only way to get more
| than 1 Vpn connection is now to get "Unlimited" which is even
| more expensive at EUR11.99
|
| What was the price of "Plus" before this change, i think
| something like EUR8 or EUR10 ?
| bitL wrote:
| Dubai government servers are bouncing mails originating from
| protonmail.com. Will proton.me bypass this?
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Unlikely, I doubt their IT is that incompetent to not block any
| new DNS entry associated with Proton
| ipspam wrote:
| I have been using Proton products for years now. VPN is top notch
| at the paid level, and email is pretty great. Don't know what
| else to say, it's good stuff.
| Fnoord wrote:
| It took them ages to support Wireguard. I went with AirVPN a
| few years ago. They had support for Wireguard, and a sweet BF
| deal.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| I switched to mullvad for a similar reason.
| c0wb0yc0d3r wrote:
| With ProtonMail, can I change the reply-to address on the fly?
| With Fast Mail, I can edit the address from the compose screen.
| mario_kart_snes wrote:
| Are you referring to the "from" address or specifically the
| "reply-to"? You can change the "from" ... I am not sure about
| keeping the "From" the same but changing "reply-to"
| butz wrote:
| Great, even more different products using same names. I
| understand the idea of uniting all different Proton services
| under the same name, but now Proton (Mail and other services) and
| Proton (SteamPlay, from Valve) will be hard to differentiate in
| short news headlines. Similarly as with Unity (Ubuntu desktop
| environment) and Unity (game engine).
| CobaltFire wrote:
| Looks like Visionary has been sunsetted for new subscriptions.
| This must be recent, as it was live a week or two ago.
|
| A note for anyone recommending ProtonMail as that changes the
| calculus for many.
| cge wrote:
| That change was, as far as I can tell, it was done without any
| prior announcement (it is announced on the new website).
| Unfortunately, I had been trying over last few days to figure
| out the best way to move my currently partially self-hosted
| setup to ProtonMail, and the only feasible way to do so would
| likely have been with the Visionary plan. ProtonMail's sudden
| removal of it means that I likely won't be able to switch to
| them, and will likely end up removing my current Professional
| plan.
|
| With its removal, there is no non-business plan with multiple
| mailboxes. It also appears that the ability to pay additional
| fees per item for extra custom domains, addresses, and other
| features has been removed. As such, if you need more than what
| the largest plan offers on these (eg, you need what the old
| Visionary plan offered), this now appears impossible.
| CobaltFire wrote:
| I just got the email, see here:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31505489
| pentagrama wrote:
| And now that the login page https://account.protonmail.com/login
| redirects to https://account.proton.me/login, my Firefox pass
| manager do not autofill the login anymore, I believe that is a UX
| nightmare for non advanced users.
|
| And to be honest, I don't know the best way to avoid UX problems
| when a service change domains.
|
| I mean, besides that many users will lost access/do the reset
| pass process because of that, the experience to fix this as a
| user is: go to the pass manager, copy the credentials from the
| old domain, go to the new login page and paste it, save it as in
| the new domain, and delete the old domain saved credentials,
| because that will be saved there forever with no propose and
| confusing users with duplicated login information.
|
| I guess more advanced password managers maybe notify about domain
| changes? But at least Firefox and I suppose Chrome, which is
| massive, don't have that.
| mario_kart_snes wrote:
| In general this seems like a good move.
|
| But the last paragraph violates one of my common complaints:
| using "open source" as a buzz-word:
|
| > Proton will always be open source
|
| Oh really? Where can I download the source code to run my own
| Protonmail server? Answer: I can't.
| dgellow wrote:
| Their clients and import tools are open source, they contribute
| to a bunch of libraries.
| mikece wrote:
| May I direct your attention to ProtonMail's GitHub page?
|
| https://github.com/ProtonMail
| mario_kart_snes wrote:
| Sure, they have some things (arguably low-value, but you may
| disagree) on GitHub, but they do not have the main protonmail
| service - where I could run my own Protonmail server - on
| GitHub.
| seti0Cha wrote:
| Setting the bar awfully high there, aren't you? Very few
| companies open source everything, and I'd say that it's
| pretty reasonable to say you support open source and open
| standards despite that.
| mario_kart_snes wrote:
| If instead they said "Protonmail supports open source"
| then I would totally agree with you, but I think my
| conclusion is fair to draw from _their_ language:
| "Protonmail will always be open source."
| odiroot wrote:
| I wish U2F was supported instead of just TOTP
| jacooper wrote:
| This change would supposedly enable this.
| jibcage wrote:
| I hope this redesign leads to their services becoming more
| mainstream, without alienating their existing user base.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| When the calendar supports invitations, and Mail, Contacts +
| Calendar support delegation, I'm switching back from Microsoft.
| heywoodlh wrote:
| For those who like using other mail clients there is the
| official Protonmail Bridge[1] (for paid customers). There is
| also Hydroxide[2] (which I use). I am able to use Apple Mail on
| mobile, Aerc[3] command line mail client on desktop (MacOS and
| Linux), and sync with the CardDav instance for contacts.
|
| Understandably, this is not an ideal solution for everyone --
| it works awesome for me! Just a PSA for those not aware.
|
| [1] https://proton.me/mail/bridge [2]
| https://github.com/emersion/hydroxide [3] https://aerc-
| mail.org/
| sexy_panda wrote:
| Could be a hard thing to implement. The calender would need
| access to encrypted mails.
| shever73 wrote:
| I'm definitely happy that my EUR6 per month subscription has been
| upgraded to Proton Unlimited. The storage boost for email is more
| than I'd ever use, but the ability to add more custom domains is
| a definite win in my book.
| jacooper wrote:
| You very lucky my friend. I am a plus subscriber, and other
| than more storage nothing has changed.
| [deleted]
| brewdad wrote:
| I'm a VPN subscriber and got upgraded to the full Unlimited
| plan for the remainder of my term (about 18 months).
| coffeeblack wrote:
| More email addresses. And a catch-all for custom domain.
| jacooper wrote:
| catch-all for such a limited amount of aliases is not that
| useful.
| coffeeblack wrote:
| For me it is. A catch-all for my domain was the one thing
| I was missing.
|
| Not sure what that has to do with the number of email
| aliases.
| brewdad wrote:
| More email addresses but they all dump into the same inbox,
| correct?
|
| I've been a VPN subscriber, so haven't really played around
| with the mail side too much.
| coffeeblack wrote:
| Same inbox, yes. But you can always use filters to have
| them show up in different folders instead of the default
| inbox folder.
| [deleted]
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I am a long time paying customer. Good to see improvements.
|
| The one thing that keeps me from using Proton as my primary email
| is lack of email/calendar integration. When I get an email with
| an invite, I would like that to appear auto-magically on my
| calendar. When I assign my custom domain to Proton and use it
| heavily for a few months, this is what eventually makes me switch
| back to Apple/Gmail/FastMail.
| nullbytesmatter wrote:
| Mm, I am a paid customer as well. I use proton mail exclusively
| and I like the calendar. You can add events to your calendar
| from an email/invite. I also share calendars with non-proton
| users (my wife uses user iPhone/calendar app). I haven't had
| any issues with it.
| toxicFork wrote:
| I was working on a side project to do exactly this, including
| emails from Airbnb, hotel and flight bookings, but for fastmail
| :) I will check if I still have the code...
|
| I gave up on it because I wasn't sure how to solve potential
| privacy issues or concerns if I wanted others to be able to use
| it.
| zucked wrote:
| I was a paid customer, and I still support ProtonMail's
| mission, but the app experience drove me to cancel my paid
| subscription and go with FastMail instead. The mobile client
| and desktop were never in sync; I'd swipe an email to archive
| and it'd show back up in the inbox, etc. It happened time and
| time and time again and I got sick of it having to clean up
| after their messy app.
| Fnoord wrote:
| So much faith in the government of Montenegro, eh? Not optional
| anymore means I don't like it.
|
| Also, what is the incentive as a previously paying customer to
| return? I see none. It does not seem to be loyal customers but
| current ones. So someone who subscribed last month or a few days
| ago (for however long) gets more benefit than me a multi year
| former user. OK, so where is the incentive to make me a returning
| customer?
| kortheo wrote:
| What are you referring to? What is their affiliation with
| Montenegro, and what is no longer optional?
|
| Edit: Also in terms of incentives, is there another decent
| email provider that offers the same suite of services (end-to-
| end encrypted email that won't data mine you and serve ads to
| you?). That's still the main draw for me.
| brewdad wrote:
| Every other company on the planet seems to go with the 'screw
| the current loyal users, let's offer great deals for new
| customers only' model. One company finally does it the other
| way and you complain. This is the way every company should
| operate.
| Fnoord wrote:
| While it might be rare Humble Bundle did it as well, but then
| I was on the beneficiary side. My question still remains:
| what's my incentive to return? I get no deal whatsoever. I
| pay about 2 EUR a month for AirVPN as it is, and I switched
| to them because they had Wireguard support.
| joedissmeyer wrote:
| Serious question for HN:
|
| What are the opinions on moving a personal family domain on the
| GSuite Legacy free over to Proton?
|
| It seems like the cost is reasonable, 9.99EUR/month for 15 email
| addresses and 3 custom domains. I have just one domain and 5
| email addresses for my family so I don't need much. Curious to
| what everyone thinks about Proton or if there might be a better
| alternative. Side note: I know Proton is based in Switzerland but
| my family and I are based in the US. Not sure if that is
| something which would be a problem.
| carimura wrote:
| Our family did the same thing... gmail is pretty superior in
| most aspects, but so is their ability to search your deepest
| darkest secrets. a tradeoff we were fine making. that said in
| the year we've been using it their overall "arc of change" has
| been positive and this latest refresh looks to follow that
| trend. FWIW I use the iphone beta app through trustpilot and
| it's a lot better but this refresh looks like they're moving
| towards GA'ing that version soon.
| ivan_gammel wrote:
| I use Visionary subscription for that, so far the only downside
| was lack of mailing lists - I really want some emails to be
| received both by me and my wife.
| CobaltFire wrote:
| See here for todays sunset if that plans availability:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31505489
| CobaltFire wrote:
| I have Visionary, which allows for five logins if I recall
| right. It also has a drive replacement, and something like 12
| VPN assignments. I run a few domains through it without issue.
|
| Edit: Looks like they aren't allowing anyone new to sign up for
| Visionary. That's recent as I was seeing signups available as
| of a week or two ago if I recall right.
| grammers wrote:
| It would work if you are all fine with using the same login.
|
| If you want separate logins, take a look at Tutanota, it's
| 1EUR/month and you can add each family member as a full user.
|
| As to the location, there is no issue, Tutanota is based in
| Germany, but both options (Switzerland or Germany) are fine for
| usage from the US. At least I've never heard about anyone
| complaining.
| jacooper wrote:
| Hmm, I don't think that pricing is right, first you would need
| a business account so every use can have their independent
| login.
|
| The cheapest option is 7$ per user, which is a big jumb from
| free.
|
| https://proton.me/business/plans
|
| Otherwise, I think they are really the best private email
| company.
|
| And now with this change, they are the only privacy ecosystem
| out there, unless you count nextcloud which a different thing
| and isn't as heavily encrypted as proton.
|
| Be aware that proton doesn't offer standard SMTP connections,
| you need a bridge which is only available on desktop. The same
| thing is true with the calendar/contacts there is no
| cardav/caldav sync.
|
| I hope they are working on integrating a Dav bridge on desktop
| and syncing from mobile apps.
| selykg wrote:
| >The same thing is true with the calendar/contacts there is
| no cardav/caldav sync.
|
| The lack of CardDav and CalDav are absolute deal breakers for
| me. If I can't get my contacts and calendars into my
| preferred apps on my phone there's just no way they'll get
| adoption from me. I stick with Fastmail because it just works
| for mail, calendars and contacts across all of my devices and
| apps.
| jacooper wrote:
| However I would remind you that since Fastmail is based in
| Australia, its privacy is pretty limited.
|
| > The new law also allows officials to approach specific
| individuals--such as key employees within a company--with
| these demands, rather than the institution itself. In
| practice, they can force the engineer or IT administrator
| in charge of vetting and pushing out a product's updates to
| undermine its security. In some situations, the government
| could even compel the individual or a small group of people
| to carry this out in secret. Under the Australian law,
| companies that fail or refuse to comply with these orders
| will face fines up to about $7.3 million. Individuals who
| resist could face prison time.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-
| data/a...
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Yeah, anything in the US, New Zealand, Australia, Canada,
| and the UK should be considered accessible by the
| government and shared between the 5 upon request.
| selykg wrote:
| Email isn't really secure or private anyway. And Proton's
| email is only making email between Proton accounts
| private, so unless a large number of my email recipients
| are also on Proton it's a moot point.
|
| I don't get the draw of Proton. If I send email to
| someone else outside of Proton I should assume that email
| is now in an insecure state.
|
| Fastmail may not advertise privacy, but honestly, I don't
| think much email in general should ever be considered
| private, including much of what is sent from Proton.
| jacooper wrote:
| Proton's feature is its privacy adovacay and now its
| ecosystem.
|
| Its a compelete ecosystem designed with privacy in mind,
| and encrypting emails is not the only benefit, another
| ProtonMail benefit is that no one can read the stored
| emails, only you can do that.
| selykg wrote:
| Maybe so, but if the recipient of the email, or sender of
| the email is not using an email service that provides the
| same then those emails should not be considered private.
| They might not be accessible on my email service, but
| they are on someone else's.
| cge wrote:
| Proton's major draw, in my view, is the storage being
| encrypted and not accessible unencrypted to the server,
| not the transmission and emails to others. While it does
| do relatively convenient PGP encryption to other
| ProtonMail users (and annoyingly inconvenient PGP
| encryption to others, when I've tried), these are rather
| limited in scope, because of the limitations on
| recipients.
|
| If your concern is a major state-level actor, able to spy
| on every recipient/sender you're communicating with and
| generally tap emails being transmitted, yes, Proton
| offers little protection, and email is insecure. If
| you're worried about a data breach or targeted attack
| compromising your stored email in its entirety, however,
| it does. These are more feasible for smaller-scale
| attackers, and in getting an entire, potentially complete
| history of your emails, potentially offer something more
| than just spying on one email.
|
| I'd speculate that targeted attacks are more often
| client-side, usually trying to steal credentials from the
| user, but at least the user can be careful about these.
| Having all your correspondence stored and readable on a
| server that isn't under your control means you have to
| trust the security of the server much more than you would
| with this type of encryption.
| Reitet00 wrote:
| > annoyingly inconvenient PGP encryption to others, when
| I've tried
|
| If the recipient has set up Web Key Directory for their
| key the encryption looks just like for a Proton recipient
| (transparent key fetch in the background). And WKD is
| quite common and easy to setup (eg all major Linux
| distros have it).
| kulikalov wrote:
| Climate activist arrested after ProtonMail provided his IP
| address (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28427259)
|
| Did Proton redeemed this somehow?
| mikece wrote:
| ProtonMail respects your privacy, but they also respect
| warrants issued by the Swiss authorities. If you use ProtonVPN
| (or no VPN) to access ProtonMail then your real IP is recorded
| and can be turned over. If hiding your real IP address is
| important than use a different non-logging VPN provider
| (personally I use Mullvad to access ProtonMail and everything
| else).
| RealStickman_ wrote:
| Using ProtonVPN would have actually been fine. A VPN provider
| isn't required to hand over real IP adresses of customers in
| Switzerland.
| jacooper wrote:
| Yes.
|
| They can't refuse this as it was required by law, and protonVPN
| is protected from IP logging requirements.
|
| https://proton.me/news/climate-activist-arrest
|
| The have also updated their privacy policy.
|
| > 2.7 IP logging: By default, we do not keep permanent IP logs
| in relation with your Account. However, IP logs may be kept
| temporarily to combat abuse and fraud, and your IP address may
| be retained permanently if you are engaged in activities that
| breach our terms and conditions (e.g. spamming, DDoS attacks
| against our infrastructure, brute force attacks). The legal
| basis of this processing is our legitimate interest to protect
| our service against nefarious activities. > > If you enable
| authentication logging for your Account, the record of your
| login IP addresses is kept for as long as the feature is
| enabled. This feature is off by default, and all the records
| are deleted upon deactivation of the feature. The legal basis
| of this processing is consent, and you are free to opt in or
| opt out of that processing at any time in the security panel of
| your Account.
|
| https://proton.me/legal/privacy
| sha256sum wrote:
| I removed my premium subscription after this incident and was
| surprised to find that _all benefits for the subscription
| were immediately revoked_. Mail was rendered undeliverable
| until space was clear back to 500MB.
|
| Mind you there was still time in my subscription.
|
| So fuck ProtonMail regardless. Others will recommend
| Tutanota, Fastmail... I use mailbox.org for business, all
| much better recommendations.
| jacooper wrote:
| its written clearly under the cancle button that this would
| happen. they would give you credits for the time left in
| the subscription.
| sha256sum wrote:
| Wrong, it is _currently_ ...
|
| And so what? For someone to play like that it's fair to
| give a refund for the unused period. Otherwise, like I
| said, fuck ProtonMail.
| dleslie wrote:
| You cancelled a service and were surprised that you no
| longer received that service?
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| They have a free service, there was no reason to cut him
| off completely unless he was over quota and then they
| should have logically warned him and given notice they
| would purge the account after x days unless it was
| cleaned up. So yeah this seems kind of dirty.
| kevinmgranger wrote:
| > there was still time in my subscription
| [deleted]
| rank0 wrote:
| They must comply with the legally binding Swiss order. The
| alternative is shutting down the business. Also note they BEGAN
| logging the subpoenaed IP AFTER receiving the warrant and
| notifying the user. They did not have IP logs ready to go.
|
| I don't think anyone actually reads into nuance anymore. The
| privacy advocates are their own worst enemy. If this bar is too
| low for you, there's basically only self hosted GNU software
| left...
| kulikalov wrote:
| Sounds reasonable.
|
| > The privacy advocates are their own worst enemy
|
| Probably, but Privacy is Proton's motto. I'm just pointing at
| the controversy.
| shapefrog wrote:
| flotzam wrote:
| And still no way to anonymously create an account (free or paid):
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28435153
|
| Make of that what you will, after so many years and the nth
| redesign
| selykg wrote:
| Privacy != Anonymity.
|
| I can see why they do what they do, it probably prevents a lot
| of spam accounts and abusive use type accounts from being
| created. But privacy doesn't mean anonymous. If you want
| anonymous I don't think Proton is for you.
| dcow wrote:
| Exactly. The reason I pay for proton mail is _not_ so that
| proton mail doesn't know I'm a customer. It's because proton
| mail _doesn 't read my emails_. Gmail/Google does. That's
| what privacy is important to me as an email user.
|
| Sometimes it feels like people scream security === anonymity
| === privacy and really don't understand what they're even
| yelling about.
| flotzam wrote:
| Robust privacy (you choose what to disclose to whom) often
| presents as anonymity to third parties
|
| And Proton is marketing themselves as anonymity friendly:
| https://proton.me/news/climate-activist-arrest
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Anonymity can be a big part of privacy, which is fairly
| obvious and for some people it's inside that privacy circle
| as a necessary component.
| xur17 wrote:
| I guess I don't know what sort of abuse they experience, but
| for spam I'd think $10 / month would be more than sufficient.
| selykg wrote:
| What if that $10/mo is going to result in a charge back
| from the stolen credit card? That, on top of spam and
| whatever other abuse is going on with that account.
| xur17 wrote:
| OK, then only accept crypto for anonymous accounts.
| flotzam wrote:
| And it would be easy for Proton, because they already
| accept cryptocurrency for subsequent payments _after_
| account creation, but not for the first payment _during_
| account creation (catch 22)
|
| In the end it's their choice to continue collecting
| personal data, even after Swiss authorities compelled
| them to disclose personal data to French authorities: htt
| ps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProtonMail#Compliance_with_Swi
| ...
| selykg wrote:
| Honestly, cryptocurrencies (I hate that these have
| hijacked "crypto" for their silly garbage, to me crypto
| will always be cryptography. Old man yells at cloud I
| guess..) just invite abuse. As a service provider I'd
| never offer cryptocurrency as payment if that service
| could be abused in one way or another. Just my
| experience, to each their own.
| Fnoord wrote:
| I don't like it either (to put it mildly) but Mullvad
| allows cash to be send to them, no questions asked. You
| can even pay for various months that way.
| flotzam wrote:
| Proton also supports cash for renewals/upgrades, but they
| went out of their way to remove the cryptocurrency option
| and the cash option during signup...
| [deleted]
| tingle wrote:
| Between 2019 and 2020, I've created a few free one-time
| ProtonMail accounts, which I used for creating throw-away Apple
| IDs.
|
| In fact, I just created one to verify. It's still possible. See
| for yourself:
|
| user: testaccount.forhackernews@protonmail.com
|
| pass: testdonotuseforseriousstuff
|
| All I had to do was to solve a captcha with bicycles in order
| to prove I was human. And the dialog for recovery e-mail /
| phone had a "Maybe later" button.
|
| I live in Switzerland, maybe the impossibility of anonymous
| account creation is a legal issue in some countries ?
| flotzam wrote:
| Did you use Tor Browser though? They've been blocking that
| during signup for a long time now
| tingle wrote:
| No, I didn't. And I just tried with Tor Browser, but the
| captcha option is not available.
| OminousWeapons wrote:
| Just buy a burner and use that for your phone number during
| setup.
| badrabbit wrote:
| I have used a burner phone and anonymously obtained btc wallet
| with them.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| btc isn't really anonymous, although it's -easily- traced it
| can be with a bit of resources.
| badrabbit wrote:
| That's why i said obtained not transacted
| wangler1949 wrote:
| it is. i just created an account on there onion site using only
| captcha
| Forbo wrote:
| No phone number, secondary email, or credit card info was
| required?
| wangler1949 wrote:
| "only using captcha" so no
| flotzam wrote:
| Which .onion? The signup link on https://protonmailrmez3lotcc
| ipshtkleegetolb73fuirgj7r4o4vfu7... redirects to their
| clearnet site. Maybe it redirected you too and you landed on
| that one mythical Tor exit node not yet blocked by Proton,
| which is always rumored to exist (but I've never seen it)
| jacooper wrote:
| Personally I'm still looking forward to the new android app, as
| the current one is pretty crappy.
|
| I'm using the beta app and everything is good but it still
| doesn't support conversation view.
|
| (I have yet to find any open source android email app which looks
| as modern as proton's, maybe AOSP email?)
|
| They have also bought [SimpelLogin](https://simplelogin.io), the
| email aliasing service, and promised that SL would be intgersted
| in the plus plans when SL Is merged into proton in 2-3 months.
| I'm hoping that they keep multiple domain support, even though I
| doubt it will happen.
|
| As for proton calendar, its usability for me is pretty limited
| until they enable syncing with the OS on mobile and offer a
| Caldav server with desktop bridge. If they would also offer
| contact sync that would be super!
| neltnerb wrote:
| After five years waiting for them to implement swipe to move
| forward and backwards in your inbox rather than having to click
| and wait multiple times to move to the next message, and the
| same amount of time waiting for it to let me automatically open
| the next message after deleting the one I'm on...
|
| Moving my email via IMAP bridge into ProtonMail resulted in
| many many messages being corrupted (they show HTML as TXT
| instead of rendering it) and duplicated.
|
| I finally literally gave up a week ago and switched to Fastmail
| and am already so much happier. It's annoying, I really wanted
| to love Protonmail but they just do this window dressing
| nonsense with updated logos and website design instead of
| making the core product work better. I can't deal with it
| anymore.
|
| It's very sad to me, I was one of their first customers :-(
| jacooper wrote:
| interesting, I had none of these issues.
|
| just a reminder that Fastmail is based in Australia.
|
| However I would remind you that since Fastmail is based in
| Australia, its privacy is pretty limited.
|
| > The new law also allows officials to approach specific
| individuals--such as key employees within a company--with
| these demands, rather than the institution itself. In
| practice, they can force the engineer or IT administrator in
| charge of vetting and pushing out a product's updates to
| undermine its security. In some situations, the government
| could even compel the individual or a small group of people
| to carry this out in secret. Under the Australian law,
| companies that fail or refuse to comply with these orders
| will face fines up to about $7.3 million. Individuals who
| resist could face prison time.
|
| www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-security-data/australia-
| passes-bill-to-force-tech-firms-to-hand-over-encrypted-data-
| idUSKBN1O42SR
| newscracker wrote:
| > just a reminder that Fastmail is based in Australia.
|
| > However I would remind you that since Fastmail is based
| in Australia, its privacy is pretty limited.
|
| And Fastmail's data centers are in the U.S. I don't know if
| they encrypt all data and logs at rest. They/the data
| centers could be compelled to hand over data to U.S. three-
| letter-agencies too, with an NSL (gag order).
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| I'm sure the 3 letter orgs don't set up the paper trail
| for NSL until they need to for a court. They are scooping
| up all that stuff already, email/messaging is a goldmine
| of info too good to wait on warrants and such. Australia
| is a member of 5 eyes as well, so it's all basically the
| same, you can bet they all share information with little
| to no guard rails.
| neltnerb wrote:
| Certainly an aspect of my willingness to switch was that
| email encryption end to end only worked with other
| protonmail users, and unencrypted emails in transit are
| already readable, and they could surely be compelled to
| capture my decryption password the next time I used it
| anyway. They're still subject to swiss law which isn't
| quite as libertarian as protonmail sometimes implies.
|
| I think that for most people (or at least me) the attacks
| that protonmail is good for aren't especially likely and
| can trivially be rendered useless by the kind of
| adversaries they would theoretically have worked against.
|
| Disclaimer: not a security expert, just based on my
| impressions. Sorry if I got any details wrong.
|
| At least fastmail isn't Gmail sending your info to
| marketers.
| neltnerb wrote:
| Yeah, I really wish protonmail had been good enough,
| obviously I originally got it due to the privacy features
| which I agree are better. But five years is a long time to
| then get them spending this much money to redesign their
| website instead of finally finishing basic features.
|
| I really really tried to give them time, but honestly this
| announcement is insulting for people like me waiting for
| years for actual features to reach parity. I finally gave
| up, but I'm not happy about it and would have much rather
| kept giving ProtonMail money.
| geewee wrote:
| I'm a medium-happy Protonmail user. I really wish they'd step up
| their core services - give us the ability to snooze emails,
| schedule sends for later - all of the stuff you can do in Gmail,
| Outlook or other modern mail clients. It's such a hard time,
| because I reeeeally want to like the service, but I feel like
| they make it so hard
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| This is one reason I use proton bridge and thunderbird.
| [deleted]
| nikolay wrote:
| Kudos for taking the baton and maintaining
| https://github.com/ProtonMail/go-crypto which should replace
| Keybase's fork everywhere. Terraform and providers such as AWS
| now use it instead.
| threatofrain wrote:
| Proton is currently sending out a marketing email blast in
| multiple languages _but without any unsubscribe button_.
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