[HN Gopher] Logitech MX Mechanical Keyboard
___________________________________________________________________
Logitech MX Mechanical Keyboard
Author : davidbarker
Score : 252 points
Date : 2022-05-24 12:32 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.logitech.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.logitech.com)
| OnionBlender wrote:
| At the top left there is a link to Girls Who Code and it seems
| that logitech has gone with the hash tag #WomenWhoMaster. Weird
| choice considering "master branch" and "master bedroom" are now
| considered too offensive these days.
|
| https://www.logitech.com/en-us/mx/girls-who-code.html
| oasisbob wrote:
| Perhaps the marketing team at Logitech believes there is a
| difference between adopting a master/slave metaphor as opposed
| to referring to the concept of mastery in some ad copy.
| wyager wrote:
| This seems like a poor option for this price range.
| swah wrote:
| I have two mechanicals standing there, and love the tactility and
| all - but with a low profile like Mx Keys (or K380) I can "rest"
| my hand on the place it likes to stay since 1995 or something
| (ready for the Alt-Tabbing and the CapsLock + C/V), without
| bending my wrist that much...
| koverda wrote:
| I miss the K810 for it's perfect flatness. I've since switched
| to a lenovo thinkpad wireless trackpoint keyboard. It's flat,
| compact and awesome. I'd suggest to check it out.
| swah wrote:
| Will check - I loved the keyboard on my X220. Do you use the
| trackpoint still?
| koverda wrote:
| Yeah I do use it sometimes.
| candyman wrote:
| It might be hard to love Logitech as a brand but I've been
| satisfied with a number of their products and keyboards and mice
| are important to me. I'm typing for hours a day so it matters.
| I'm getting older and arthritis sucks so a good mouse helps some.
| (Although the roller keyboard thing is cool and I'm playing with
| it some.) Logitech is making it a little weird with the different
| wireless dongles. For example the MX Master 3 Business mouse uses
| Bolt but the MX Master 3 uses the older one. And now the Logitech
| "options" software has the regular and the "beta" which seems to
| be more for Bolt. I'm not going to buy this keyboard for now
| since I have plenty. (My most recent was a Drop that was really
| fun to customize and put together. I can't use it as a "daily
| driver" because I rely on the extra numeric keypad for work but
| it's my "convertible" for sunny days!
| DeepYogurt wrote:
| When's the MX touch pad coming out logitech?
| newsymonger wrote:
| Review here, if you're interested:
| https://bigtechquestion.com/2022/05/24/review/logitech-mx-me...
| nunez wrote:
| If this is anything like their ergonomic mouse then it's probably
| fantastic
| harshreality wrote:
| Bizarre how a rechargeable keyboard without an intentionally user
| serviceable battery has a specs section titled "sustainability".
| user3939382 wrote:
| Political lip service is a key facet of modern marketing
| riskable wrote:
| Also, their switches aren't hot swappable so if one stops
| working (or even becomes just a bit finicky) consumers are
| likely to throw the whole thing out.
| kosma wrote:
| It's such a disappointment that they chose to continue the weird
| custom layout of MX Keys - merged function row with two extra
| buttons and missing PrintSc/Pause/ScrollLk. I also had to import
| my MX Keys from the US because the European layout is a joke. In
| the end, no matter how good things are, they are already spoiled
| from the design stage. Why, Logitech, why?
|
| Side note also - I bought an MX Master 3 and within a year the
| rubber coating is ruined. I'm trying to get a warranty
| replacement but I'm pretty sure the replacement will share the
| same fate. I guess my hands just are acidic?
| zweifuss wrote:
| What I don't like about the MX keyboards is that they don't have
| an IBM compatibility mode. For example, the pause key is
| Start+Fn+B. So the familiar break combination in Visual Studio
| CTRL+Pause is CTRL+Start+Fn+B. The Fn key is on the left, so it
| requires two-handed operation. Some key combinations can not be
| reached at all, not even as a macro. The macro facility
| (progammable key) is near useless anyway.
| layer8 wrote:
| Also no Menu key (in the place were they have the Fn key),
| which I use all the time on Windows. The combined Windows/Mac
| keycap labels are unfortunate as well (unless you frequently
| switch your keyboard between both systems I guess), seems like
| a cheap cost-cutting measure instead of offering two models or
| exchangeable keycaps.
| retSava wrote:
| While this is a workaround rather a solution, I use sharpkeys
| (https://www.randyrants.com/category/sharpkeys/) to reprogram
| keys I don't use as much.
|
| Eg caps lock -> delete, num lock and scroll lock -> volume
| down/up, paragraph key -> play/pause (I'm on SE layout). Works
| very well for me.
| IE6 wrote:
| fwiw this has more to do with keyboard layout and pcb
| programming than the switches - my 'tex shinobi' board has a
| dedicated Pause key (and more).
| Jim_Heckler wrote:
| they meant "Logitech MX" not "Cherry MX"
| xqcgrek2 wrote:
| I will never go back to fixed unsplit keyboard again. I much
| prefer split ergo keyboards,
|
| eg https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/edge/ or its non gaming
| version
| jason2323 wrote:
| Just made the switch to Ergodox EZ so looking forward to that
| leohonexus wrote:
| How are they on a day to day basis? I'm thinking on getting one
| but not sure how big of an upgrade it is from unsplit ones.
| MivLives wrote:
| Been using one for over two years now. They're great, but I'd
| say go for one that isn't row staggered (the keys don't line
| up vertically in columns).
| samatman wrote:
| I'd like to add nuance to this advice.
|
| For reasons I don't understand, ortholinear is either a
| Really Big Deal or it just... isn't. I'm the latter.
| Switching to the ErgoDox layout took some doing, it's been
| an iterative process of tweaking the layout, but actually
| typing on linear keys was a transition I barely noticed.
|
| For different brains it's a complete showstopper and they
| have to learn how to type again, for many people that won't
| be worth it. I prefer typing on linear keyboards.
|
| There is unfortunately little way to tell which camp you're
| in without trying for yourself.
| MivLives wrote:
| ErgoDox isn't actually ortholinear, it's columnar.
|
| Ortholinear is just a straight grid of buttons. Columnar
| is what most split ergo boards are. Having used one I
| don't find ortholinear very good feeling without a split,
| as it makes your wrists go in a weird angle.
|
| I sorta transitioned in via way of an ortholinear which I
| think helped a bunch. Rather then going from a normal
| board to a splitergo, I used a preonic for a few months
| first. I have let others use my split board, and I've
| seen what you're talking about. Some people are able to
| adjust pretty easily, others just panic. The harder part
| is all the weird thumb buttons they have to use
| (backspace, enter, and [] are all thumb buttons for me)
|
| For any one worrying you lose skill in other layouts when
| you switch, I haven't found that to be the case. For the
| most part I can transition back to a laptop keyboard
| pretty easily and only attempt to hit certain buttons
| that aren't there once or twice in the first few minutes.
| samatman wrote:
| It's an ortholinear split key board.
|
| https://switchandclick.com/best-ortholinear-keyboards/
|
| Here's another one
|
| https://dygma.com/blogs/product-development/new-
| ortholinear-...
|
| These are all what you're trying to say is only called
| 'columnar' because the vertical is staggered but the
| horizontal is straight.
|
| As I hope I've demonstrated, in practice your criticism
| is without basis, these boards are described by their own
| manufacturers as ortholinear.
| xqcgrek2 wrote:
| Huge different especially if you tent them. I have large
| hands and always also felt cramped on unsplit keyboards but
| not on split keyboards
| cestith wrote:
| I've been using Keyboard.io Model 01 boards for a few years
| now as my daily drivers for typing, ever since they arrived
| from backing the Kickstarter campaign. For my broad-
| shouldered build, the split has been good for my shoulders,
| elbows, wrists and fingers while the ortholinear key
| arrangement seems to be good for my wrists and fingers as
| well. Those shipped with Mathias Quiet Click (or optionally
| Clicky) switches soldered.
|
| I like them enough I've also backed the Model 100 for two
| boards. These boards are socketed and have a wider variety of
| switches available. The top enclosure has also switched from
| maple to walnut.
|
| https://shop.keyboard.io/
| perrylaj wrote:
| I'm in the same boat - backed the original Kickstarter for
| the 01, bought a second to keep at the office, and have a
| 100 on order through the more recent Kickstarter. Took a
| bit of getting used to, but I really enjoy them. My biggest
| complaints were handled with the model 100
| (serviceability), looking forward to the new one arriving.
| _ph_ wrote:
| That looks like my dream keyboard - except it isn't available
| with an ISO layout :(
| darau1 wrote:
| What you're looking for is almost definitely deeper down the
| rabbit hole[1]. The problem will be getting it.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards
| _ph_ wrote:
| Which one are you referring to?
| jack_daniels wrote:
| Intrigued by these split keyboards but I really want a board
| with low profile switches.
| CobaltFire wrote:
| The mini looks pretty much identical to my Keychron K3. Not sure
| if that's good or bad; it's one of my favorite keyboards and cost
| me 1/3 of what they are asking.
| ubertaco wrote:
| This looks like a non-hotswappable board with proprietary
| switches, and it's still tied to Logitech's wireless dongles
| (which are notoriously bad about both causing and being super-
| sensitive to 2.4Ghz-spectrum interference).
|
| I mean, I _think_ the switches are proprietary -- the page has no
| real information about the switches at all, which is a bit like
| selling a computer by showing you a picture of the case and
| telling you it has "a CPU".
|
| Hotswappable switch sockets are basically a standard feature in
| the mechanical keyboard scene these days, with boards that sell
| for as low as $50-$60 having hotswappable sockets.
|
| I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone who
| has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by doing
| any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist out
| there.
|
| Enthusiasts will see the non-standard switches and lack of
| hotswap, and the fact that it's Logitech, honestly, and will
| bounce off.
|
| Non-enthusiasts will see that this Logitech keyboard is $150, but
| doesn't offer all that much more than their cheaper wireless
| multi-device keyboards, and will just buy a cheaper non-mech
| option.
|
| At $150, it's priced above most budget boards (the sort you'd see
| on /r/budgetkeebs, which is more my wheelhouse anyways), but with
| none of the selling points of the boards in that range -- and
| it's getting into the low end of "standard"/"pricier" boards, but
| again, it can't compete with boards in the $60 range....so why
| bother?
|
| *EDIT*: I'm seeing a lot of folks responding to this and saying
| "look, this is exactly what I'm looking for", so...I stand
| corrected. The above are my own opinions (and as a little bit of
| a hyper-frugalist sometimes, I'd still recommend shopping around
| on prices), but they're just that: my opinions. Don't let me make
| you feel like you're stupid or wrong to like what you like just
| because it's not what _I_ like! If this is your jam, then I'm
| stoked for you, and congrats on possibly finding the exact thing
| you're looking for!
| zumu wrote:
| > with proprietary switches
|
| MX is a type of switch, so from the name, I'm guessing it uses
| MX style switches (the most popular style of switch).
| Specifically MX describes the shape of the connectors on the
| switch. This means the keyboard will be compatible with
| aftermarket key caps, which are very popular.
|
| EDIT: While the switches do look like MX switches to me,
| Logitech is also using MX as branding to describe mice, non-
| mech keyboards etc. This is confusing for someone who knows
| mechanical keyboards.
| johnwheeler wrote:
| Except that their entire pro line is called MX and has been
| before this. Their mouse is MX master.
| filoleg wrote:
| > the page has no real information about the switches at all
|
| It does, though. They are all MX switches, and they have 3
| different ones: tactile silent, clicky, and linear. Each one of
| them has a short basic description.
|
| Reading the engadget review[0] of it, it seems like the naming
| was fairly accurate. The author points out that "linear" is an
| equivalent of MX Red, and "clicky" is an equivalent of MX Blue.
| The "tactile silent" switches weren't explicitly called out in
| the review, but it sounds like they would be the closest to MX
| Brown.
|
| 0. https://www.engadget.com/logitech-mx-mechanical-hands-on-
| gam...
| zamalek wrote:
| > the page has no real information about the switches at all
|
| It looks like it's their short travel switches, which are found
| on the G915. I own, but do not use (on account of my newer
| custom keeb), a G915. The switches are a noticeable step above
| stock Cherrys, with significantly less scratchiness (that
| probably has to do with the short travel), but obviously pale
| in comparison to "the rest." The G915 also has really solid
| build quality, although I'm not sure if that translates to this
| model.
|
| Despite my positive comments about the keyboard family, I
| strongly recommend looking into a custom keyboard because
| you'll find a much closer match, for what you're looking for,
| than what OEM keyboards will ever yield. You can get a GMMK 2,
| with _lubed_ switches, for $149 [1] (then spend another $20 on
| cheap keycaps on Amazon). The switches are hot-swappable, so
| you will get many years of use from it. GMMK 2 is extremely
| entry-level, but will blow almost any OEM keyboard clear out of
| the water (including this one).
|
| You can also get keyboard switch samplers to help you choose
| which switch works best for you.
|
| [1]:
| https://www.pcgamingrace.com/pages/gmmk-2-configurator?color...
| Fuhrer01 wrote:
| We are not the target audience for this product. They are
| trying to target Apple kind of market.
| LoLFactor wrote:
| I've used Logitech peripherals all my life and I stand by them.
| Specific to the keyboard, here's my experience of switching
| over to mechanical. I asked around, and people did recommend
| building my own, which I was cool with, but my needs were
| pretty specific and informed by my old keyboard (that I had
| used for 10+ years and had gotten accustomed to). I wanted a
| very specific layout: US International, the ISO variant (with
| the square(ish) Enter), but the 104-key, without the extra key
| next to the left Shift. It's not very common, but it's the one
| I use, and not many manufacturers use it (especially custom
| mechanical boards). I also wanted media keys and some
| programmable keys for macros.
|
| After looking around for a while, I mostly found 10-key-less
| custom boards, very few full keyboards and none were the exact
| layout I wanted (they were either ANSI with the small Enter,
| which I hate, or 105-key ISO, which I would have also hated).
| Not to mention lacking media keys and/or programmable keys.
| Then I found my current keyboard. The Logitech G915 Lightspeed.
|
| It is EXACTLY what I wanted. Has the correct layout, has media
| keys, has programmable keys, it's dual wireless (Bluetooth and
| their Lightspeed connector, which is definitely more reliable
| than Bluetooth, I have to tell you; also it works before
| booting into Windows, which Bluetooth does not, so I don't have
| to use a different keyboard for BIOS), the battery lasts
| FOREVER (3-4 weeks, including me turning on the lighting at
| night) and is replaceable. It uses Kailh Low-profile switches,
| which although uncommon, can be found online, and, while not
| hotswappable, can be replaced in the event of failure.
|
| The MRSP is 250 EUR, I got it for 150 new, which is a steal.
| With that money I basically bought myself a keyboard which I
| can conceivably use for the next 20 years, no problem
| (factoring in inevitable key repairs and battery
| replacement(s), of course).
|
| Don't know about you, but I'm happy with my choice and purchase
| and would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone. In fact, after
| using it for a while, I also purchased the G502 Wireless mouse,
| which I also love.
|
| So, yeah, for some people, Logitech peripherals are exactly
| what they need.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Holy effin' moly I am not alone... square Enter, no stupid
| shift slashes placement. It took me forever to find something
| (actually didn't - Roccat I have have this idiotic tiny
| Enter, but good volume control knob which is super useful
| too), and I don't even want bluetooth since I never move it
| around.
|
| Logitech G915 looks great if it just used the cable, it seems
| to have volume knob/roller too. Too bad there isn't wired
| cheaper equivalent, at least I don't see any.
| LoLFactor wrote:
| You're in luck, friend. G815. Exactly the same keyboard,
| but wired. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find pictures of
| it with this exact layout (seems to have the 105-key
| layout).
|
| That having been said, more good news. My model came with
| the same pictures, but it was the 104-key layout, so it
| might vary by region, I guess. Look around and see what you
| can find at your local retailers.
|
| Even more good news, even if you can't find the G815, the
| G915 DOES work by wire, if you really want to. You can hook
| it up via micro USB. Even comes with a cable.
|
| Also, might I suggest you at least try a wireless keyboard.
| OK, so you don't move it. Valid argument. Neither do I, but
| the lack of one MORE cable on my desk, plus the ability to
| just yank it off the desk for cleaning, with having to
| unplug it, well worth it.
| [deleted]
| Macha wrote:
| What layout has shift-slashes? I'm using a UK keymap with a
| 105-key ISO keyboard. Slashes are the keys one in from
| left/right shift. Shift-\ = | and Shift-/ = ?. Is there
| some common layout where these are reversed as to which is
| the shift key?
| bayindirh wrote:
| > I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone
| who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by
| doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist
| out there.
|
| Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-
| till-it-dies type of consumer.
|
| I don't care about changing switches. I don't care about DIY.
| While I'm perfectly capable, I don't want to spend time on
| that. I want something works well, and equipped with a well
| known 2.4GHz receiver which can work with any OS, incl.
| firmware updates.
|
| I need to do my daily work with it. Not fiddle with keys, caps,
| boards, firmware and soldering iron.
|
| I'll be seriously considering this. If it's adequately close to
| MX Browns, I'll get one.
| wmeredith wrote:
| > anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-it-till-
| it-dies type of consumer.
|
| If this is like my other Logitech keyboards, that's about 2.1
| years.
| bayindirh wrote:
| ...and if this is like my other Logitech peripherals, it's
| > 10 years.
| toxican wrote:
| After looking at the product listing, it's pretty clear who
| it's for. Non-techfolk that want to try out a mechanical
| keyboard. Or heck the older techies who haven't kept up with
| stuff, but miss the tactile feel of KBs of the 70s/80s.
|
| Other mechanical keyboards have different switch-types
| listed, but even as a user of a mech keyboard for a decade
| now I couldn't tell you which is which without looking it up.
| Logitech simplified it with "Tactile Quiet", "Linear", and
| "Clicky". You immediately know which style is for you without
| having to consult some switch tactile/loudness chart or ask
| the mechanical keyboard cult for their take. They've lowered
| the bar of entry into the mechanical keyboard market. Do
| other companies do the same or go the extra mile to simplify
| the process? Probably, but it carries a lot more weight when
| the biggest name in computer peripherals does it.
|
| As for me, I might give it a go eventually. If they take a
| cue from the MX mouse series with how damn customizable it is
| binding buttons to actions, then I'll definitely be grabbing
| it.
| jamesbfb wrote:
| > which can work with any OS, incl. firmware updates.
|
| Keyboard that needs firmware updates? Yuck. It's an input
| device. I'll stick with my 12 year old WASD Code and Model M
| thank you very much.
|
| /end boomer
| bayindirh wrote:
| No. Logitech sometimes push firmware updates for their
| receivers for security reasons.
|
| While my G700 is also capable of firmware updates, they
| didn't push anything to it since I bought it a decade ago.
| newsclues wrote:
| Yeah, security updates for my keyboard is not a selling
| feature.
| tmottabr wrote:
| it is not for the keyboard.. it is for the wireless
| interface that it uses to connected to the computer and
| the dongle..
|
| the unifying dongle had some security problems detected
| in the past that required firmware updates to fix..
| tekknik wrote:
| Literally any keyboard running over USB has software.
| They're not as simple devices as people think.
| alophawen wrote:
| The Logitech unifying receiver is FUBAR and no firmware
| updates will remedy that.
| bayindirh wrote:
| That's a pretty strong opinion on something so widely
| deployed and can work without any problems in a place
| which is _very_ polluted with radio traffic and jamming
| in some frequencies.
|
| I had a Microsoft Bluetooth mouse which constantly lost
| connection where I live. No Logitech receiver even
| skipped in that place.
| tmottabr wrote:
| i guess this is why new products are using the Bolt
| receiver instead, that they claim is not compatible with
| the older Unifying receiver..
|
| On the other hand, if the Bolt is any better then the
| Unifying only time will tell, but i do not have my hope
| up..
| utexaspunk wrote:
| "What's that? I couldn't hear you over my keyboard
| clacking!"
| Kerrick wrote:
| I bought a mechanical keyboard with clicky blue switches
| and brought it to work at my open office company.
|
| Very quickly my coworkers encouraged me to buy one with
| silent clear switches.
|
| I now own two.
|
| The clicky one stays at home.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| I want a mechanical keyboard that's as quiet as possible.
| I assume you did research to find the best options. Would
| you have any resources available?
| dotancohen wrote:
| Quiet as possible: Reds (any company, I prefer Cherry).
|
| Quiet enough that your coworkers won't hear it, yet very
| comfortable to type on for those new to mechanical
| keyboards: Browns.
| tekknik wrote:
| Reds + orings, or brown + orings. A lot of the sound
| comes from someone bottoming out the keys.
| tomtheelder wrote:
| Silent linear switches are the quietest. If that's not an
| option, then linear switches with o-rings.
|
| Also you frequently get quite a lot of noise from the
| stabilizers on the large keys. Your only real option
| there is to lube them, but that's not really feasible on
| most off the shelf keyboards.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| I chose to WFH over RTO because I really like using my
| mechanical keyboard.
| krallja wrote:
| > open office company
|
| They were so close to getting it, too.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| Typing this from my WASD Code Keyboard, that I love - am on
| my third (mostly coffee spills, not mechanical failure)...
|
| ... you do realize that these guys have firmware updates,
| too?
|
| https://support.wasdkeyboards.com/hc/en-
| us/articles/36001851...
| morsch wrote:
| I kind of would have expected a $175 keyboard to survive
| a coffee spill. It doesn't really happen anymore, but as
| a kid I must have spilled soda on my no-name keyboards
| once a month, with no ill effects.
| Root_Denied wrote:
| One benefit of membrane keyboards is that the membrane
| would prevent liquids from reaching down into the sensor
| components.
|
| That being said, I've resurrected my WASD Code keyboard a
| few times from coffee and water spills. It can be taken
| apart and cleaned with rubbing alcohol, left to dry, and
| reassembled pretty easily. I usually do this anyway every
| 18-24 months at this point for sanitary reasons.
| sleepymoose wrote:
| In that case, I would recommend looking into one of
| Keychron's low profile options. Firstly, they're about half
| the price of this Logitech board, depending on the size you
| choose to go with. Second, there's twice as many
| configurations to choose from (Full size, TKL, 75%, and 65%).
| Even further, they have higher quality and a greater variety
| in choice of switches, regardless if you choose Keychron's
| own or Gateron switches. They lack 2.4Ghz conncetion, but
| there is both bluetooth (with up to 3 paired devices) and
| USB-C wired connection available. While the logitech board
| does have USB-C charging, it doesn't explictly state that it
| supports wired use, which is an option I hold in high regard
| for wireless keyboards. Final bonus with the Keychron boards
| is not having to use Logitech's software. Personally, I
| haven't had any issues with their stuff, but I've seen many
| that have sworn off of Logitech completely due to buggy
| software. Stepping away from the personal use aspect, that
| software often adds yet another path for security
| vulnerablities. [1]
|
| Didn't mean to go off on such a rant, but if helps even one
| person choose a better board than a Logitech, I'd say it was
| worth it. As someone who's used a Logitech board daily for 6
| years, I'd recommend looking elsewhere - especially for the
| money.
|
| >If it's adequately close to MX Browns, I'll get one.
|
| In my experience with Logitech switches, you will be
| disappointed. I own boards with both Romer-G Browns and
| Blues. I kid you not that I've felt linear switches that had
| more tactility than either of these switches produce.
|
| [1] https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/razer-bug-
| let...
| corrral wrote:
| As someone who wanted:
|
| 1) Bluetooth
|
| 2) Multi-device support/switching (3 minimum)
|
| 3) Wired-use operation as a backup
|
| 4) Mechanical switches
|
| BUT ALSO:
|
| 5) Not to have to give a shit about my keyboard, or spend
| much time on it, and ideally not spend much _money_ ,
| either
|
| I settled on a Keychron and it's been really good for my
| purposes. It's a solid keyboard for someone who wants an
| entirely OK mechanical keyboard for non-bank-breaking
| prices.
|
| I have had exactly two problems with it, one resolved:
|
| 1) It liked to "go to sleep" way too fast, then took 3-5
| seconds to wake up and reconnect. A quick look at the
| manual showed me how to turn that off with some magic key
| combos. It lasts days on a charge regardless, so it was
| purely an annoyance. Anyway, that's resolved.
|
| 2) The stupid l33t g4m3r d00d light patterns it can do.
| This was one of the most subdued mechanical keyboards I
| could find (WHY do so many have this crap?!), and it still
| has this damn "feature". You can set it to steady, low,
| always-on light, which is the only thing I _ever_ want, but
| there 's a button at the top right corner that's easy to
| brush by accident which causes it to cycle to the next
| light pattern. You then have to hit it like 20 times to get
| back to "stop trying to look like fucking Las Vegas" mode.
| I'd have paid an extra $10 to _not_ have this "feature".
| Just remove the whole damn thing, set it permanently to
| steady-light, and keep the dim/bright keys for it only
| (which can also be used to turn it to zero, so, off). I
| manage to screw this up about once every couple weeks. It's
| annoying, but not enough to get me to buy a different,
| probably more expensive, keyboard.
| irmis wrote:
| Have K3, besides accidental backlight change, no issues
| at all. Small comfortable, multidevice support (always
| connected to my pc via cable, simple switch to BT
| connection to work Macbook). Also not tried my self, but
| it looks like there is possible to reprogram backlight
| patterns with their software:
| https://www.keychron.com/pages/how-to-program-the-
| backlight-...
| eloff wrote:
| I was looking at it today on Amazon. It looks
| interesting, but I'm not sure if it will work well with
| Linux. Anyone know?
| 420official wrote:
| I don't use mine with linux unfortunately but the
| existance of this: https://gist.github.com/andrebrait/961
| cefe730f4a2c41f57911e6... implies there's some pain in
| getting started with it.
| teh_klev wrote:
| I got a Keychron K8 Tenkeyless for GBP99.99 off of Amazon.
| It's got hotswap key switch capability (I picked Gateron
| Browns but I plan to experiment with other switches),
| bluetooth connectivity for up to three devices and wired.
| It's also got RGB but I'm genrally not fussed about that on
| devices.
|
| The stock keycaps are nice enough but I replaced mine with
| the Drop MT3 Dasher caps only because I'm a crusty old ex-
| Data General engineer looking for a nostalgia kick :).
|
| All in all it's a real nice keyboard. It's also absolutely
| solid in construction with a metal frame and you could
| easily do someone quite serious (defensive) GBH with it.
|
| I'm not sure why anyone would buy the Logitech in question,
| not being able to swap key switches these days on a $100+
| keyboard seems a bit mean, and was a bit of a deal breaker
| for me when hunting down what is my first customisable
| mechanical keyboard.
|
| I should also add that mechanical keyboards are in no way a
| hobby thing for me and I certainly won't be spending hours
| on end on customisations other than the odd key switch
| experiment.
| gigaflop wrote:
| It looks like it uses Cherry's low-profile switches, so if
| you're looking for switch reviews, there's your keyword.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Thanks, will keep that in mind.
| gigaflop wrote:
| Small correction to myself, but they're Kailh Chocs with
| an MX-compatible stem:
| https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/logitech-mx-
| mechanical-...
|
| But, they should be vaguely similar in feel. If you're
| looking for something clicky, the Kailh low-pro switches
| may be a better choice, since they developed their
| clickbar for the 'tactile event'. IMO, the clickbar
| switches are better than click jacket/etc for clicky
| switches.
|
| Either way, you could order some loose switches as a
| sample before committing to one or the other. I'd not
| bother with the tactile (non-clicky) one, but that's just
| my own opinion.
| falcolas wrote:
| Not according to that page. Under specs, they have several
| flavors of " Graphite MX Mechanical" switches.
| gigaflop wrote:
| The page says nothing about which make/model switches are
| used. Tactile/clicky/linear can be said about any switch
| manufacturer's offerings.
| falcolas wrote:
| On that page, under "Specs & Details", the explicit
| models and part numbers are listed.
| Graphite MX Mechanical Tactile Quiet: 920-010547
| Graphite MX Mechanical Linear: 920-010548
| Graphite MX Mechanical Clicky: 920-010549
| Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Tactile Quiet: 920-010550
| Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Linear: 920-010551
| Graphite MX Mechanical Mini Clicky: 920-010552
|
| Logitech makes its own switches (or at least claims to),
| so this is what we have.
| tmottabr wrote:
| i think Logitech started with Cherry switches in their
| early mechanical keyboards and later they switched to
| their own switches, some are based on Cherry MXs and some
| are not..
|
| From the name and some images my guess is that this ones
| are based on or at least compatible with the Cherry MX\MX
| Low profile switches..
|
| But Logitech has the (bad) habit of mixing different
| models of switches in the same keyboard model.. I have
| two G512 here..
|
| The first one, a tactile silent, use Romer-G switches,
| those are made by Logitech itself, not sure if anyone
| else use those.. they have their own Keycaps, not
| compatible with anything else AFAIK..
|
| The other one, a tactile clicky, it uses GX Blue switches
| (their version of the Cherry MX Blue) that is compatbile
| with Cheery MX keycaps..
|
| My guess would be that those Graphite MX are likely like
| their previous GX switches.. based on Cherry but
| manufactured by Logitech or some by some contractor on
| their behalf.. not much information out there about those
| yet..
| gigaflop wrote:
| While they have made their own switches in the past,
| these look exactly like premade switches. I don't feel
| that the model numbers serve to help identify the actual
| switch.
|
| I can't tell between Choc V2s, or Cherry MX Low-Profile,
| but this review shows the switches in better (read: any)
| detail than Logitech's page:
| https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/logitech-mx-
| mechanical-...
|
| 'MX' made me think it might have been Cherry, but the
| review says Chocs, so that's what I'll believe. MX is
| probably included to signal 'MX compatible stem'.
| 015a wrote:
| I feel that. Not everyone wants to make keyboards a hobby.
|
| What I'll say is: I've had both the MX Keys, and the G915.
| The MX Keys is the baby brother chicklet version of this one.
| The G915 is Logitech's gaming-grade low-profile mechanical
| keyboard, using switches that visually look similar to this
| one. I've had switch failures on both, within 18 months of
| (reasonably heavy) use; double typing, missed inputs, etc.
| The only keyboard I've had fail quicker is the MacBook Pro
| butterfly keyboards; but I have a half dozen which have
| lasted significantly longer.
|
| A few other paths I'd recommend which are better:
|
| 1. Go to Best Buy. I know, old school. Most have a gaming
| products isle, with keyboards, and a display area with a
| bunch of them. Try them all out. Try to find one with
| standard Cherry switches (most have them nowadays, except
| Logitech and maybe Razer; and they'll advertise it proudly on
| the box). They'll have RGB and other nonsense, but they're
| reasonably price competitive and generally solid keyboards.
| Corsair makes some good ones; I have a Corsair that sees
| daily use that's gotta be 4-5 years old now, on Cherry MX Red
| switches.
|
| 2. Something like this:
| https://kbdfans.com/collections/fully-assembled-keyboard.
| Pre-assembled DIY. You'll probably end up paying a bit more,
| and even their pre-assembly DIY configurator is, frankly,
| daunting. But the only thing to really worry about is
| selecting the right switch brand for you; and YouTube can
| help a lot, locating videos of people typing on each switch
| type. For the totally uninclined: Cherry Reds are the classic
| novice switch (or Silent Reds if you want really low sound,
| but the Reds themselves are pretty quiet).
|
| Frankly, to me; this isn't a situation where I will argue
| "all big box brands suck, don't buy a big box". Some of them
| are pretty good. But Logitech keyboards have really dropped
| in quality lately; if you're going to go big box, at least
| don't go Logitech, please.
| gmmeyer wrote:
| I have the G915tkl and it still works perfectly over two
| years later. Wild that you had such bad experience with
| them!
| ardit33 wrote:
| I have the G915 TKL (Clicky) an it is awesome. It is low
| profile and works great for programing.
|
| Any regular Cherry MX keyboard is going to have tall keys,
| and it is just aweful for programming in general (long key
| travel makes typing around, and moving arrow keys, harder
| as it takes more effort).
|
| I have build 2 custom keyboards, and have 2 more prebuild
| cherry mx keyboards, and I will never buy or work on a
| regular profile keyboard again. Low profile is are just
| much better ergonomically, and right now the G915 is one of
| the best in the market. (but it is pricey)
| christophilus wrote:
| > Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-
| it-till-it-dies type of consumer.
|
| I'm using a buy-and-use-it-till-it-dies mechanical keyboard
| that plugs into my USB port[0]. It doesn't need to be
| charged, won't die on me in the middle of typing, doesn't
| interfere with any of my Bluetooth / wireless spectrum. It's
| perfect for someone who's no-fuss.
|
| [0] https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_
| det...
| jermaustin1 wrote:
| Me as well. I usually just go for the cheap $20-$40 keyboard
| that I know will break after about 12-18 months, and replace
| it. The only thing that I now pause on is 2.4ghz which REALLY
| sucks in an apartment. My last 2 wireless keyboards stopped
| working consistently (due to radio interference from what I
| can tell) and have been replaced with a second-hand alienware
| mechanical gaming keyboard.
|
| It is quiet enough that I can type (albeit VERY
| slowly/softly) while I'm on a call, but nowhere near as quiet
| as the crappy logitechs I always get.
| arinlen wrote:
| > _Me, or anybody who needs a no-fuss, one-shot, buy-and-use-
| it-till-it-dies type of consumer._
|
| You can get a cheaper no-fuss mechanical keyboard from
| reputable brands with respectable components for far less
| than this logitech keyboard is being sold.
|
| From the top of my mind, Akko keyboards are quite nice, and
| most of their products sell for $50 less.
|
| You'd need to be completely, utterly clueless to go to
| Logitech for a mechanical keyboard. The faintest of Google
| searches would lead you to established products which are
| both cheaper and better.
| thefz wrote:
| > From the top of my mind, Akko keyboards are quite nice,
| and most of their products sell for $50 less.
|
| Opened the website. Almost everything out of stock. No
| other layout besides us_US (most european languages use
| accented vowels like eoau). Clown pink and RGB everywhere.
| Closed the website.
| YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
| To be fair, their keyboards have line names like "Naruto"
| and "Doraemon", so.
| arinlen wrote:
| > _Opened the website. Almost everything out of stock._
|
| Amazon seems to have no problem stocking up on Akko
| keyboards. The ones I'm seeing listed as out of stock on
| Akko's page seem to be low-volume special editions with
| custom keycaps.
|
| But again, I'm not a sales representative. Anyone
| interested in mechanical keyboards surely is able to use
| Google to find decent offers. I doubt Logitech products
| will feature in anyone's shortlist though.
| photon-torpedo wrote:
| > Anyone interested in mechanical keyboards surely is
| able to use Google to find decent offers.
|
| Umm, there are now almost daily threads on HN about how
| bad Google search has become, especially for product
| search... So I'd guess many people will be happy about a
| no-nonsense offering from a somewhat reputable
| manufacturer like Logitech.
| FireBeyond wrote:
| What's the difference between Akko, EPOMAKER Akko, YUNZII
| Akko, Womier Akko, Gliging Akko, COSTOM Akko on Amazon?
|
| That all looks... entirely reputable. Absolutely.
| arinlen wrote:
| ranger207 wrote:
| this, both the need to research basic facts like "what
| brand am i buying from", and the attitude when you ask
| questions to research those basic facts, is why someone
| would want to buy a logitech mechanical keyboard
| toxican wrote:
| So I can point my 60yo father to a reddit thread to try
| to figure out the differences between switches and
| manufacturers when all he really wants is a keyboard that
| sounds/feels better than the gummy crap that came with
| his Dell. Then maybe he'll create an account and ask a
| question and get some snarky ass hole reply from someone
| barking "IF You'd HAd GooOgled It!".
|
| Or, I can say "dad, check out this logitech kb. It's
| affordable and you can pick how loud you want it to be".
|
| Literally that simple. Start looking at things through
| the eyes of your parents or grandparents and you start to
| see how fucking complicated and confusing a lot of this
| shit is. It's no wonder at all that Logitech is coming
| out with something simple with streamlined options.
| doubled112 wrote:
| Being from a recognizable brand and available at
| Staples/Bestbuy/Walmart are big things.
|
| Sometimes people who are deep into things forget about
| that. You've done 100s of hours of research. You've
| chosen X Y and Z for reasons. You've built this and that,
| tried some of those.
|
| Most people's keyboard choice is about 3 minutes in the
| aisle. Done.
| sleepymoose wrote:
| From some quick glances at /r/MechanicalKeyboard, Akko
| looks to be a manufacturer (primarily for switches),
| while the rest are various distributors.
|
| Funking naming/branding isn't unheard of in the MK world,
| considering a large amount of stuff is bought from China
| and rebranded.
| Pet_Ant wrote:
| I think that they don't need to know or research or ask
| about other brands is the point. It's like you know that
| Monster Cables will be sufficient.
|
| That said why would such a person want a mechanical
| keyboard but not want to out in the effort to learn about
| them? I'm guessing it's for dabblers or people who've heard
| of mechanical keyboards and it's more an impulse buy than
| an investment.
|
| (I've tuned my own springs by finger so that's where I
| stand personally)
| bayindirh wrote:
| In my case, for the G710+ case especially, I did my
| research, understood what I want, did additional research
| and pulled the trigger.
|
| Being happy with what I've ended with, I didn't dive
| deeper into that rabbit hole, because I have more
| important things to do than tweaking keyboards.
|
| I'm like that. Do my research, pull the trigger once,
| consider the problem solved and move on.
|
| Having many hats and ambitions limits one's time
| considerably. I for one only have tonight to be at home
| at dinner time, incl the weekend.
|
| Sorry for not being able to live up to your standards in
| the mechanical keyboard realm, however being a sysadmin
| and programmer, I think I can want a dependable and semi-
| decent mechanical keyboard. Considering I've grown up
| with some of them. If you permit, of course.
| Pet_Ant wrote:
| You are not the target market. There are not enough
| people like you to justify a product. If you like the
| keyboard great, but who is their target? People who have
| heard of "mechanical = good" and know the Logitech brand.
| It's just a weird niche compared to many more people who
| come into mechanical keyboards from the hobbyist tinkerer
| side of things.
| piaste wrote:
| > There are not enough people like you to justify a
| product. If you like the keyboard great, but who is their
| target? People who have heard of "mechanical = good" and
| know the Logitech brand.
|
| I bet this category easily outnumbers all massdrop
| hypebeasts or Cherry switch sommeliers out there.
|
| In the same way that middle-upper class men who want a
| nice pair of headphones, vaguely remember that "high
| impedance = good" and know the Sennheiser brand easily
| outnumber audiophiles.
| runamok wrote:
| I like this one that seems similar to the logitech "mini"
| one.
| https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k3-wireless-
| mecha...
|
| It's low profile, has replaceable switches, can use a cable
| or bluetooth, is a fair price and has worked really well.
| writeslowly wrote:
| I have one of those, but the wireless doesn't work well
| for me (shuts off after about 5-10 minutes, takes a few
| seconds to turn on again, and runs down the battery in
| less than a week), and the it defaults to a really crazy
| looking moving backlight scheme.
|
| On the other hand, I have a wireless logitech with a
| little trackpad I use for controlling my PC from my couch
| that's been on the same set of AAA batteries for over a
| year. So a proper mechanical logitech with a wireless
| dongle is sort of appealing to me.
| apocalyptic0n3 wrote:
| Have they improved the keycaps on the K3 since launch? I
| had one at launch and ended up returning it because the
| keycaps were so poor. Very rough with lots of
| imperfections.
| epicide wrote:
| I've found it worth buying a set of keycaps that I know I
| like. Even amongst keycaps made of the same plastic
| (PBT), they don't always feel the same. And in my
| experience, the keycaps make as much or more of a
| difference in feeling as the switches themselves.
|
| Specifically, I bought a set of the Granite DSA keycaps
| several years ago and always use them on my primary
| keyboard.
| apocalyptic0n3 wrote:
| The problem with the linked keyboard, the K3, is it's
| ultra low profile. At least at launch, there were _no_
| alternatives on the market except the ones that it came
| with. The keycaps are thinner than my phone and I
| remember trying different keycaps and I think they
| worked, but not well.
| sebular wrote:
| I have the revised K3 and the keycaps don't have any
| quality issues. You should be good to reorder.
| apocalyptic0n3 wrote:
| Thanks! I actually did like the keyboard, but the keycaps
| were unbearable bad and I went back to my Magic Keyboard
| (which I don't mind at all, really; I just know I can do
| better and would like to explore a bit)
| darzu wrote:
| I have this and it's nice except I would much rather have
| a dongle the bluetooth.
|
| I haven't found any wireless mechanical keyboards with a
| dongle until this Logitech one.
| MR4D wrote:
| Wow - that's only half the price!
|
| What's the battery life like, and how fast is the wake up
| time? (I'm a Mac user in case it matters. )
| runamok wrote:
| Honestly I just use it wired and it looks like others are
| not impressed with the Bluetooth. Maybe one of them will
| chime in.
| epicide wrote:
| I've been using a similar one as well. Specifically, the
| RK68 Pro.
|
| The Bluetooth is... okay. It takes a few seconds to wake
| up, but it doesn't turn off for about 30 minutes. Battery
| life has been fine with BT 5.0. I want to say somewhere
| in the range of a couple weeks? All with backlighting
| disabled.
|
| USB wireless is a bit of a joke, honestly. I've had it
| lose signal even just a foot or so away with absolutely
| nothing (except air) between the dongle and keyboard. I
| have to have the dongle at about 8" or less to maintain a
| reliable connection.
|
| Overall, I'd say the keyboard is _fantastic_ for the
| money. I 'm truly wowed by the mechanical keyboards you
| can get for comparatively very cheap prices these days.
|
| That being said, I still generally trust a company like
| Logitech to get Bluetooth and RF USB to be less flakey.
| Sure, other smaller companies get it right too, but I've
| had to do way more experimentation and messing around in
| order to find that.
|
| Though if you can do with a wired keyboard, then I
| wouldn't bother with the Logitech, personally.
| raydev wrote:
| > You can get a cheaper no-fuss mechanical keyboard from
| reputable brands with respectable components for far less
| than this logitech keyboard is being sold.
|
| This actually looks decently low-profile, what are similar
| reputable brand keyboards that are equal to or less than
| the height of this keyboard?
| bayindirh wrote:
| How many layouts do they have besides en_US?
| Guillaume86 wrote:
| Basically the reason why even if I'm willing to do my
| research on mechanical keyboards, I will still end up
| with a Logitech or some big brand one.
| ricardobayes wrote:
| I find it apalling even Apple offers more keyboard
| layouts than a company focused entirely on peripherials.
| It's insulting honestly.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Believe or not, Apple offers _a lot of_ keyboard layouts
| when compared to most computer companies.
| arinlen wrote:
| > _How many layouts do they have besides en_US?_
|
| Beats me. I do not represent the brand.
|
| I guess worst case scenario you're a keycap set away from
| any keyboard layout you wish to have.
| sleepymoose wrote:
| >I guess worst case scenario you're a keycap set away
| from any keyboard layout you wish to have.
|
| I'm not aware of any main Logitech keyboards that support
| changing the keycaps. I couldn't even find replacement
| keycap sets for my board when I looked a year ago.
| _ph_ wrote:
| No, you cannot convert an ANSI keyboard to an ISO layout.
| Which is a pity, as many nice keyboards are ANSI only.
| arinlen wrote:
| > _No, you cannot convert an ANSI keyboard to an ISO
| layout._
|
| A cursory search on Google returned plenty of search hits
| on how to convert keyboards between ANSI and ISO.
|
| Also, apparently there are ANSI+ISO keycap sets on the
| market.
|
| Anyway, I don't have a dog in the race. Anyone who is on
| the market for a 150$ keyboard will surely be able to
| Google stuff that suits their fancy.
| _ph_ wrote:
| Sorry, can you be helpful and point me to a link which
| shows how to do this for any given keyboard? For example,
| you would have to replace the left shift key with 2
| separate keys, how should that work?
| iakov wrote:
| I don't think you can do that on most boards. The
| switches and stabilizers are very different between
| layouts. I can't imagine how would that work outside of
| re-soldering some switches and reassembling the board, if
| the PCB allows.
| _ph_ wrote:
| I think the same, you would need a different positioning
| of the switches on most keyboards. But as the poster I
| answered to was claiming you could convert them, I was
| curious, what he was thinking of :)
| [deleted]
| dividedbyzero wrote:
| You realize ISO is physically different, like, there is
| one more physical key and enter is 2U high (not wide,
| high)? Unless the PCB was designed with that conversion
| in mind there's no way that's going to be possible.
| arinlen wrote:
| > You realize ISO is physically different, like, (...)
|
| That is only relevant as far as picking keycap sets go.
|
| As I've pointed out, there are plenty of ANSI+ISO sets on
| the market.
|
| Beyond this point, the relevance is zero.
|
| It's a non-issue.
| Macha wrote:
| You've been provided answers of how this is not the case.
|
| Observe this image of ANSI vs ISO layouts:
| https://external-
| content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...
|
| Let's say I have an ANSI keybord, and I buy a set of ISO
| keycaps?
|
| First of all, the enter and shift keys are not going to
| fit, so let's reuse the keycaps from the ANSI ones. Now
| we do put in all the keys and... my #/~ key is left over.
| There is no switch on the keyboard to mount the keycap
| to. ANSI keyboards do not have the same amount of keys.
|
| Not to mention my \| is not in the right place - the ANSI
| shift key covers it's proper location, so guess I'm
| putting an undersized keycap on the top of enter. No
| amount of rebinding is going to let me have the left half
| of left shift do one thing and the right half do another.
|
| These ANSI/ISO keycap packs you're thinking of are not
| indicating they will let you convert one keyboard to
| another. They just mean they include both shapes of enter
| keys, both sizes of left shift and \|, and a #~ key which
| doesn't exist for ANSI keyboards.
| victorhooi wrote:
| Whilst I get your point - you might want to tone down the
| rhetoric slightly...
|
| I'm a mechanical keyboard aficionado - I've gone through
| everything from Das, to Annes, to WhiteFoxes, to Keychrons.
| (Yes, I did solder some of those...lol).
|
| My current daily driver is a Keychron K6 - but even I am
| seriously considering this Logitech.
|
| The spec sheet promises a battery life of 10 months (no
| backlight) - the Keychron K6 is fine - except that the
| battery life sucks, and it takes 3-4 seconds to wake up
| from sleep every time.
|
| I'm looking for a QMK wireless keyboard, but they're thin
| on the ground - and I suspect the battery life would still
| be terrible.
|
| At the end of the day, companies like Logitech (or Apple)
| have the time and engineering nous to test things, and have
| them Just Work. Things like decent battery life, or having
| fast wake-from-sleep would probably be handled by their
| engineering teams.
| regularfry wrote:
| You would think. The most annoying piece of hardware I
| have is a Microsoft wireless mouse which, while it's
| physically fine, goes to sleep very quickly and takes
| roughly a second to wake up when you move it. It's pretty
| much unusable as a result. Which is disappointing,
| because MS hardware generally is pretty good, but I guess
| everyone misses sometimes.
| sleepymoose wrote:
| >because MS hardware generally is pretty good
|
| After a couple years of supporting Surface devices, I
| have very different views in this regard.
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| > guess everyone misses sometimes.
|
| It's still strange to me how companies like Microsoft and
| Logitech can still regularly produce lemons after, what,
| 15 years of optical mouse production. It's not like
| anything fundamentally changes any more, they should have
| a winning set of virtually perfect devices that cover the
| entire market with interlocking segments by now.
|
| I guess they're going for the "make it bit shit on
| purpose so we can sell them another mouse in 2 years"
| strategy.
|
| Or maybe they just cannot help themselves from penny
| pinching good products into bad products so continually
| that you don't even know which are which any more (and
| you certainly can't tell if the expensive models are
| actually better or not).
|
| I guess it's good that they're leaving market gaps open
| for the little guys?
| sleepybrett wrote:
| > I'm looking for a QMK wireless keyboard, but they're
| thin on the ground - and I suspect the battery life would
| still be terrible.
|
| QMK's bluetooth stack is pretty fucking broken and has
| limited chipsets it supports. You'll have more luck with
| https://github.com/jpconstantineau/BlueMicro_BLE or
| https://github.com/zmkfirmware/zmk
| thomaslord wrote:
| I've seen dongles you can buy (I think in the $30-$50
| range) that sit between your normal non-QMK keyboard and
| your computer. Then when you press a key, the dongle
| takes the keycodes from your keyboard, runs them through
| QMK, and everything works like your keyboard had QMK to
| begin with.
|
| This is probably the route I'd go for a wireless board.
| I'd likely choose a keyboard that really has the wireless
| part down (Logitech is a decent option here, I think -
| the experience with their receiver is better than
| Bluetooth for input devices in my experience) and then
| run it through one of those dongles if I really wanted
| wireless.
| ptaken wrote:
| > I'm looking for a QMK wireless keyboard, but they're
| thin on the ground
|
| The issue with wireless keyboards and QMK is that
| Bluetooth is such a messed up protocol and to implement
| it QMK would realistically have to deal with proprietary
| binary blobs which they choose not to. I heard there's
| some work on "custom" 2.4GHz transmission modes but
| that's not as universal or ubiquitous as Bluetooth is.
|
| Maybe check out ZMK, basically a QMK for wireless
| keyboards but more opiniated. I'm about to build a
| wireless corne with it after years on a wired QMK Planck.
|
| Battery life for closed source keyboards made by big
| companies will always be better because they have the
| resources to perfectly engineer the hardware and code for
| every model and the willingness to cut lots of corners in
| terms of customizability. Same with any other piece of
| hardware.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I'd personally prefer some form of wireless which is
| specifically _not_ Bluetooth. For one, I 'm typing this
| on an old desktop that doesn't have BT of any kind and I
| don't want to have a dedicated keyboard for choosing my
| OS (I sometimes use windows on this computer).
|
| Also, sometimes there's noticeable lag when typing on a
| BT keyboard (I have experience with an older Apple
| keyboard on an MBP and with a Keychron). I've never had
| such issues with either of my MS sculpt keyboard or
| Logitech mice and keyboards (nor with my Logitech
| lightspeed mice which are amazing, but I realize that's
| something else).
| corrral wrote:
| > The spec sheet promises a battery life of 10 months (no
| backlight) - the Keychron K6 is fine - except that the
| battery life sucks, and it takes 3-4 seconds to wake up
| from sleep every time.
|
| Turn off sleep. There's a key combo to do it (at least,
| there was on my model). It has such a small effect on
| battery life that I have no idea why they default to
| making it go to sleep like every two minutes of
| inactivity.
|
| I do sometimes look at my mouse that's also bluetooth and
| runs on a single AA battery for months, and wonder WTF
| Keychron's doing wrong with power management. Oh well, at
| least it can work plugged-in, too. And it was cheap.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I'm a big fan of the Logitech Triathlon keyboards and mice
| (which this one seems to be among).
|
| I use a Kinesis Advantage and USB/DP KVM on my desk, but
| have switched my spouse and my basement computers over to
| the Triathlon keyboards and mice (which support hotkey
| switching among three computers, including mixed Bluetooth
| and multi-device USB dongle connections). My spouse
| switches between her work laptop and Macbook without
| fussing with cables or a KVM and is quite happy with it.
|
| (I bought much cheaper M720 and K850/K780 keyboards on
| Ebay, but the underlying convention/functionality seems the
| same and is really slick/cheap for multi-computer usage.)
| wnolens wrote:
| > You'd need to be completely, utterly clueless to go to
| Logitech for a mechanical keyboard. The faintest of Google
| searches would lead you to established products which are
| both cheaper and better.
|
| Not clueless, just not someone who would Google around for
| reviews or care to get the absolute best. They go to Best
| Buy. This is virtually every adult I know over age 40/50
| outside of the industry. They'll roll up to Best Buy for a
| new keyboard, see this and think "cool! Some new type of
| thing!"
|
| A household brand name like Logitech is significant.
| They've been making mice almost as long as I've had a
| computer. This is extremely important to anyone who's been
| around long enough to have ventured into trying
| alternatives and eventually come back to the big names for
| consistency, warranty, return-ability.
| epicide wrote:
| > This is virtually every adult I know over age 40/50
| outside of the industry.
|
| Or even a lot of people in their 20s and 30s inside the
| [programming/IT?] industry.
|
| Some people are fine spending 20% of the time to get 80%
| of the features and are willing to spend a bit more money
| to do so.
| wnolens wrote:
| Yep, I'm in that bunch now. I used to be intense into
| research and DIY.
|
| BUT now I've got more money than time.
|
| So if it comes to my door in 2 days and/or can just be
| returned.. I don't flinch at $50- 100 premiums.
| imtringued wrote:
| I got a random mechanical keyboard for $50 on an eBay
| auction. It is a Logitech keyboard and it is terrible,
| probably the worst keyboard I have ever used. It lasted
| less than a year before button pressed started registering
| twice or not at all.
| simsla wrote:
| I bought a decent mechanical keyboard (Cherry MX). No solder,
| no installing switches yourself, etc.
|
| No fuss mechanical keyboard already exist. No need to ditch
| repairability, etc.
| jszymborski wrote:
| I'm by no means a "keyboard person", but I do try to minimize
| my e-waste and and my costs.
|
| Swappable keys aren't exactly a power-use feature. I remove
| my keycaps every so often to clean them, and swapping a
| broken switch is basically as easy using the keycap/switch
| tool that came with my board. It also means I can do a repair
| for a couple of dollars over buying a whole board. Not to
| mention I have a bunch of spare switches that came with my
| board so I can do a repair in a minute.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| Yeah, throw an entire overpriced keyboard away because a
| single switch died. It's great for the wallet and the
| environment.
| thesh4d0w wrote:
| I've spent a huge amount of my life typing on a keyboard,
| and I've never had a switch fail. Is this a legitimate
| concern?
| chipotle_coyote wrote:
| It's obviously a YMMV kind of thing, but I've had
| mechanical keyboards in the past with failing switches
| (one Cherry MX switch, and _three_ Matias Quiet Click
| switches on three different keyboards!).
| Gigachad wrote:
| It's more common on mechanical keyboards than membrane. I
| have had mechanical switches start double clicking. Never
| had a membrane keyboard fail.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I don't think it's going to die for another decade, but
| we'll see.
|
| If the push comes to shove, I think I can solder a single
| switch from a major manufacturer. I'm not the one to shy
| away from a soldering iron at the end of the day.
| sound1 wrote:
| I ordered Nuphy Air 75 [1] and am waiting for the delivery.
| It is a low profile 75% board with 2.4GHz connection plus 3
| bluetooth connections and has 3 switch options, all Gateron
| low profile. Has good online reviews, and for a custom mech
| board it isn't too expensive either. (Disclaimer: Not
| associated with them in any other way)
|
| [1] https://nuphy.com/products/air75
| panda88888 wrote:
| Can the fn key be remapped to alt/opt? I like the layout
| but I use the right opt key more than the fn key.
| sound1 wrote:
| I haven't gotten it myself but I believe they have a
| software to remap keys (windows only for now I think).
| Another bummer is that it isn't QMK compatible. Probably
| worth checking their forums or emailing customer care
| before placing an order.
| NonNefarious wrote:
| Logitech is a moribund company dribbling out sadly degraded
| products. For example, their once-respectable wireless mice
| are now nearly unusable because 2/3 of scroll-wheel movements
| are ignored.
|
| You know a peripheral company is dead when, as of last year
| or so, they still didn't have peripherals with USB-C
| connectors.
|
| I suspect that "use it 'til it dies" is going to be a lot
| shorter than you expect, with the new Logitech.
| elorant wrote:
| Then go and buy a DAS keyboard. Reliable, simple, traditional
| key mappings, nothing fancy, and a usable volume knob.
| gmmeyer wrote:
| I have the gaming version of this keyboard and it's great:
| https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/gaming-
| keyboards/g9...
|
| It never drops off, it feels great to type on. The lighting
| and everything is configurable, and will even light up the
| hot keys you need for a specific game!
|
| It's a great experience. I have no interest in a customizable
| keyboard, I just want one that works.
| Macha wrote:
| Caveat: I broke the keycap on my = key within 6 months (my
| fault, it caught on my laptop when packing in a bag), and
| there's no market for single/small quantity keycap
| replacements (even blank) unlike keyboards using more
| standard Cherry switches so I'm just using the exposed
| switch.
| prometheus76 wrote:
| I own a DasKeyboard with MX Browns and it's my daily driver
| at work. I prefer MX Blue switches (or even MX Greens)
| because I grew up in the old buckling spring era of IBM
| keyboard dominance (my home keyboard is an old Model M from
| the late 90s). I would use a clicky keyboard at work, but my
| coworkers don't like it, so I stick with the browns. I HIGHLY
| recommend the DasKeyboard. It's hefty, and I installed a
| custom key set with my preferred key profile and I LOVE it.
|
| This is the one I own and I can't recommend it highly enough:
| https://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-professional/
| imtringued wrote:
| I had a Das keyboard and it was the best.
| ftlio wrote:
| Second, I love this keyboard, but it isn't wireless, which
| I think is a fair requirement. I personally like my
| keyboards to be wired, but can see why someone might seek
| out something like the Logitech keyboard.
|
| Even with the browns, in a quiet office full of laptop
| keyboard users, any mechanical keyboard is going to seem
| loud. Mechanical keyboards always had the multiple benefits
| for me of: 1) more like the thing I grew up using, 2) loud
| enough that maybe they'd prefer I work from home :)
| Root_Denied wrote:
| I tried a DasKeyboard and found that certain keys would
| "catch" against the side of other keys due to spacing
| issues between the keys and the angle of attack of my
| fingers while typing - enough that it would occasionally
| prevent the key from registering. Swapped it out for
| another keyboard of the same make/model and had the same
| issue with the same keys and another couple of keys. Not
| sure if that's an issue with my particular way of typing or
| the build quality, or both.
|
| Ended up returning it and going back to my WASD Code
| keyboard with MX Browns and just getting a different keycap
| set for it. It's a similar price to the DasKeyboard (and
| this Logitech one), and for individually backlit keys that
| seems to be the common price point. Pretty easy to
| dismantle and clean as well, so I definitely recommend it.
| Macha wrote:
| I did have a Das Keyboard 4 Ultimate fail on me after 6
| years (the switches in the F and G key started to not
| always register).
|
| I'm sure someone with a steadier hand could maybe fix it
| with a soldering iron.
|
| I did see some of the reviews of the newer revisions were
| less positive than their historical record
| tfvlrue wrote:
| Same here. I got two of the Das Keyboard 4 (one for work,
| one for home) over 7 years ago and they're still going
| strong. I like the brown switches personally.
|
| I hadn't realized how much using membrane switch was
| causing RSI until I switched to mechanical keyboards.
| sorum wrote:
| I've owned two DasKeyboards (one with Browns, one with
| Blues) and they are sturdy as hell, built like a tank...but
| for the life of me I don't understand why their Mac models
| don't come with the right media key layout on the F-row.
| It's literally my only hangup with them.
| jkaptur wrote:
| I used a Das Keyboard for over a decade and loved it. Now
| I've switched to a Drop Alt so I can hotswap "better"
| switches and run QMK, which I've grown completely dependent
| on (https://jkaptur.com/layout/).
|
| For me, keyboards like Das Keyboard, Alt, Ctrl, etc. are
| the perfect satisfice: good keyboards, at a price that's
| not terrible, with a time & research commitment that falls
| below the level of "hobby". I could easily see the Logitech
| keyboard fitting into this niche. The only question is how
| big a niche it is - how many of us are out there who like a
| nice keyboard, but are lukewarm/meh about soldering?
| dmix wrote:
| What's the logic of using a tiny 40% keyboard like the
| guy uses in that blog post?
|
| Just adding effort to add additional keys using capslock.
| gigaflop wrote:
| I used a 50% (Preonic, so 5x12 1u keys, with an option to
| use a 2u spacebar by sacrificing a slot on the bottom
| row) for a while, so:
|
| The switches felt great to use (chosen myself), the
| keycaps were still easily customizable to an office-
| appropriate yet imo stylish theme, and the default layout
| was intelligently designed to where most functionality
| was already within reach of your fingers.
|
| Functionality would be in 'layers'. While they're usually
| numbered, I think of them as 'Alternate Shift', where
| normal Shift is 'up 1' (CAPITALS, and !@#$%^), and other
| layers can be whatever you want, i.e. `Layer2 A` = "{",
| `Layer2 S` = "}". The layout is set by the (often
| customizable) firmware.
|
| I stopped using it when I changed to a 100% remote job,
| but keep it as a display piece.
| Macha wrote:
| I can understand why people use 60/70% keyboards. I
| personally couldn't give up the numpad,
| home/end/pgup/pgdown/arrow keys for it, but there's
| definitely something to be said for the comfort level of
| having the mouse less far off from the keyboard.
|
| I think once you're into anything less than 60%, either
| you literally just type text and use the mouse/touchpad
| items instead of keyboard shortcuts, or you're more
| focused in the aesthetic minimalism rather than the
| functionality.
| stavros wrote:
| I made a split keyboard for me (I need to write up that
| post at _some_ point), and I just made holding out the
| tilde convert the right half (yuihjknm,) to a numpad. It
| works great, since I don 't use any other keys while
| using the numpad, and I get to save all that space and
| switches for something I rarely use.
| rrix2 wrote:
| I use a tiling window manager, emacs+evil-mode, and
| firefox+vimperator with a keyboard.io atreus (44 keys
| ergonomic) and it's basically fine if you go "all in"?
| sometimes I have to struggle to find the layer with the
| F-keys spread out like a numpad on my right hand, but I
| don't really use them and have their features bound to
| shortcuts that are easier to find, and that's probably
| most of the reason.
|
| I don't have to take my hands off the keyboard to do
| stuff like navigate text simply, pause/mute music
| (instead my pinky goes to the bottom of the keyboard and
| all the keys on the other hand change function), my
| software can all be driven from the "common" keybindings
| and modifiers like ctrl/alt/win are on my thumbs instead
| of being offset below my pinkies.
|
| Importantly, i can throw it in my bag with my laptop and
| use it when i am traveling so there is very little
| context-switching that has to occur.
|
| None of this really carries over when I boot in to
| windows, though, and I keep a ten-keyless keyboard around
| for playing video games.
| sleepymoose wrote:
| I've had my eye on a few 40% builds as of late, so I'll
| throw another option into your list here: portability.
| I'm looking for a keyboard that I can throw in my laptop
| bag that isn't miserable to type on. I had a Microsoft
| Designer Keyboard for a while but it's worse than my
| laptop keyboard, so I'm back to the drawing board, and
| this seems like where I'm landing.
| Macha wrote:
| Ah, I've got a 100% G915 and it fits in my backpack fine
| for a trip to the office or something.
|
| Maybe if the bag was filled for plane travel that'd be a
| problem.
| jkaptur wrote:
| People have different preferences: https://www.reddit.com
| /r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/37pw1s...
|
| That said (author here), I actually use a 65% for daily
| use. The 40% was too small for me to use comfortably. I
| could get used to the caps lock for arrow keys and text
| editing stuff, but having to remember shortcuts to type a
| semicolon just wasn't for me.
| samrocksc wrote:
| if you're looking for this: leopold is your jam.
| blablablerg wrote:
| Leopolds are great! High quality no fuss builds.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| This is the one that I've been using for quite some time:
| https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k6-wireless-
| mecha...
|
| I'm not a keyboard geek (I don't touch-type, for one thing),
| and feel you, for the "one-stop shop" thing.
|
| I do have a couple of old Logitech keyboards, collecting dust
| in a bin, upstairs.
| japhyr wrote:
| I use a non-backlit K8 during the day and a backlit K2 at
| night. I like the keychrons so much I ordered a second hot-
| swappable K8 and some custom quiet switches for making
| videos.
|
| My mk journey went das keyboard > cooler master > leopold >
| vortex > keychron. I haven't looked for anything different
| since I got the keychrons.
| matwood wrote:
| I also have a Keychron and it has been a one stop, buy and
| use until it dies kind of thing for me.
| whitey0101 wrote:
| I had 3 keychron keyboards, each lasted less than a year
| before the switches failed, reverted back to a logitech
| K780 from 5+ years ago and it works a champ.
|
| Also Keychron had some obscure usb cable requirement,
| that they could never convey over support emails. You
| would think that any usbc usbc cable would work for a
| keyboard, but not the few I had laying around that were
| longer than the provided one
|
| Just my two cents, I wouldn't buy another Keychron
| tekknik wrote:
| I also have 3 keychrons. One for my wife and myself with
| a second one with cherry clears for myself. None of them
| are having problems and they've been daily drivers for
| years now.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| I still have the original small KeyChron, it's been a
| beast. Had it for years now. I abuse it mightily and it
| won't quit.
|
| Maybe their QA has fallen in recent years?
| jwozn wrote:
| How long does it typically last until it does? What model
| do you have?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| The K6 (small non-numpad).
|
| I dunno. It works OK for me (and I use a cheap off-brand
| USB cable that works fine for me). I keep it plugged in,
| so I don't really care about wireless or Bluetooth.
|
| Like I said, I am not really fanatical about keyboards. I
| wanted the RGB backlights, relatively tactile (but not
| super -I use red keys), and fairly small. I also wanted
| wired. This is wireless, but runs as wired.
|
| It seems to be a common frame. I think I have seen almost
| identical port layouts in other brands.
|
| I brought it about a year ago.
| matwood wrote:
| I have the K2 LED/aluminum, hot swappable model with the
| medium click keys. It's 2ish years old I think. I mostly
| use it plugged in so I don't have to think about
| charging. I use it every day and it's worked great. It
| was my first and only mechanical keyboard, and I love
| typing on it. It makes me want to type.
| teawrecks wrote:
| Does "use-it-till-it-dies" mean if a single switch goes bad
| you'll just buy a whole new keyboard? If so, I recommend not
| spending so much on a mechanical as the ability to swap
| individual switches is one of the main things you're paying
| for.
| bayindirh wrote:
| If a single switch goes bad after 15 years of constant
| usage, I wouldn't feel so bad, to be honest. Considering
| the worst membrane keyboard I have is going strong after 10
| years (which is a Microsoft keyboard), I believe this G710+
| can last much more than that.
|
| We have 20+ year old keyboards at office which are going
| strong and some are even connected via DIN to USB adapters.
|
| So a good mechanical switch like a Cherry MX cannot be
| killed in a reasonable amount of time even if you use it
| daily without abusing it, if there's no defect in
| production.
|
| I didn't change a Logitech peripheral due to malfunction
| until now. Some of these are used daily, non stop.
|
| So, I'm not expecting this G710+ to apply for retirement
| soon.
|
| Wait, is my i key not registering? Nope, just joking. :)
| tekknik wrote:
| I've been using mechanical keyboards for at least a decade
| now and the only time I've had a switch go bad was when I
| spilled a drink on it. Technically it was still good but
| since it was a sugary drink the switch got sticky.
|
| As many before me have said, I am a professional
| programmer. I don't care nor have the time to replace
| switches. I have a backup keyboard that gets swapped in if
| a switch goes out. I'm never going to tear a board apart to
| replace a switch.
| empressplay wrote:
| If you want a cheap mechanical use-it-until-it-dies keyboard,
| I recommend https://www.prohavit.com/products/kb487l-tkl-
| mechanical-keyb... -- $69US
| Melatonic wrote:
| There are tons of boards like that out there for far less
| money
| bayindirh wrote:
| Will it be so well rounded like the ones which are
| comparable in price with the MX (e.g. Das, Leopold, etc.),
| so I can buy one and use without any tweaking?
|
| Or will they be supported by a warranty so well that
| they'll just send me a replacement without shipping
| anything back?
|
| Remember, I've said I have no time. I want to plug and
| forget the device.
| II2II wrote:
| I cannot speak for their recent keyswitches, but I bought a
| Logitech mechanical keyboard a few years back and the
| switches started failing after a couple of years. Being able
| to replace keyswitches kept the thing running for a few
| months longer. Eventually I gave up and replaced the entire
| keyboard since it became clear this was a design issue rather
| than a manufacturer defect. Still, the ability to replace a
| broken keyswitch is a feature when paying anywhere from 5 to
| 10 times more for a keyboard.
|
| Long story short: that mechanical keyboard was not the modern
| incarnation the tanks of years gone by. I am using one based
| upon Cherry switches at the moment. I don't have enough
| experience to judge the long term outcome, but my initial
| research suggests a similar outcome. Most of the hype around
| modern mechanicals seem to focus upon sound and feel (and,
| more justifiably, the ability to build your own), rather than
| quality. If that's the case, I feel that the gradual
| degradation of cheap keyboards is a more desirable outcome.
| bayindirh wrote:
| I'm running a G710+ at home for five years at least (I
| bought when it was just discontinued for a steep discount),
| and written my Ph.D. on that, incl. the code and the
| manuscript, I can say that they're not bad.
|
| Nothing is broken, no led is burnt off or no key has faded.
|
| Being said that the G710+ uses CherryMX Browns which do not
| tend to die that easily.
| httpsterio wrote:
| I also have the 710 but with blue switches. My volume
| scroll wheel died in a year or two but it's also 8 years
| old now and apart from the volume wheel, it works just as
| well as the day I bought it. I just clean it twice a
| year.
|
| Sturdy as heck for a keyboard that cost me 60 euros and
| I've used thousands of hours.
| II2II wrote:
| It was a G413 in my case, with Romer-G switches if I
| recall correctly.
| gambiting wrote:
| I'm on my 5th Corsair keyboard with Cherry switches - they
| eventually always start double clicking, Corsair replaces
| the keyboard under warranty, rinse and repeat. It's awful
| from electronics waste point of view, but I just don't see
| those as very reliable products.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Maybe the keyboard has a bad debouncer [0] design rather
| than bad switches?
|
| [0]: https://www.eejournal.com/article/ultimate-guide-to-
| switch-d...
| 0des wrote:
| how dare you have simple yet unrefined tastes! how DARE YOU
| bayindirh wrote:
| I'd rather tend my fountain pen collection in that time
| instead.
|
| Sorry for being so crude and tasteless.
|
| :)
| dotancohen wrote:
| I'm also a mechanical keyboard aficionado and I always
| write with a fountain pen. It's probably not an uncommon
| correlation of interest, all things considered.
| bronikowski wrote:
| It's a common joke on r/fountainpens. I think there's a
| subreddit covering fountain pens, mechanical keyboards
| and, if my memory serves me, headphones.
| bayindirh wrote:
| That's something I like, a lot: https://preview.redd.it/o
| ccvkly0cd471.png?auto=webp&s=1427cf...
| bronikowski wrote:
| Luckily I'm well over the acquisition phase. I'm very
| happy with the pens I have and I basically rotate 5-7
| pens, having 2 inked at most.
| tomsmeding wrote:
| https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalheadpens/
| devit wrote:
| Why would you buy a wireless keyboard for "daily work" which
| needs to be "no-fuss"?
|
| You are putting your security at risk (who knows whether the
| encryption is secure or whether the Logitech drivers are
| backdoored), as well as your convenience since you'll need to
| charge it periodically and there's a good chance you'll
| forget it (or forgot to buy disposable batteries if that's
| what it uses) and be completely unable to use the keyboard
| for a while, and it will have more latency and may even fail
| to work due to interference; on top of that, you'll pay more
| for these drawbacks.
|
| You should really only buy a wireless keyboard for very
| specialized needs where you need to move it around while not
| also moving the PC with it.
| Macha wrote:
| It charges using a standard usb cable. With the RGB turned
| off, it lasts months at a time. It is usable as a standard
| usb keyboard while plugged in to charge.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Simple. To keep my desk clean.
|
| First of all, my threat vector doesn't contain wireless
| attacks, and we'd have more serious problems if we come to
| that.
|
| Also, that thing can work probably while being charged, so
| no fuss. Otherwise, it can charge for a full day's worth of
| work in 15 minutes, which is just a coffee break. I know
| it's no advertisement since Sony is doing the same thing on
| many things for 10 years now?
|
| The devices which are using disposable batteries last for
| 2-3 years in average, and warn well before they're going to
| run out of energy. So again, no unexpected power losses in
| that case.
|
| Wireless keyboards neither have latency or interference
| issues at least for a decade for the type of work I'm
| doing. We're not selecting frequencies with DIP switches
| anymore.
| ihateolives wrote:
| I'm still using Logitech solar K750 first gen which is
| about 12 or so years old. Best no fuss keyboard I've ever
| had. Always ready, still holding charge, wireless just
| works all the time. One of my best purchases ever in
| regards of getting value out of spent money.
| eterevsky wrote:
| Having one less cable on your desk is neat. I used wireless
| keyboard for a while (and still use one with the computer
| that is connected to my TV).
|
| I ended up moving back to wired keyboard though mostly
| because the wireless one tended to go to sleep and take
| half a second to a second reconnecting when woken.
| NexRebular wrote:
| Because that one keyboard (and a MX Master Mouse) can
| connect to 3 machines, one being a Macintosh Quadra. Also
| less desktop clutter.
| welfare wrote:
| If technically feasibly, I would pay a premium for every
| single device and peripheral to be wireless.
|
| I want my desk to be 100% free of clutter and cables and am
| willing to live with having to recharge devices, paying a
| premium and am not at all concerned that someone would hack
| my wireless webcam.
| tekknik wrote:
| With wireless charging and desk mats you may not even
| need to plug them in to charge them anymore.
| filoleg wrote:
| And some of them just have a crazy good battery life.
|
| I have a desktop Windows setup (connected directly to
| monitors, no dock) + laptop-connected-to-the-dock macbook
| setup, both connected to the same monitors. The two
| keyboards I use are wireless HHKB Pro Hybrid and wireless
| Apple Magic Keyboard (along with Apple's dedicated
| trackpad).
|
| HHKB has an ok battery life, I swap out batteries about
| once every few weeks or so. The connection is fine, but I
| have to manually wake it up with a dedicated button after
| it goes to sleep, and it takes about 5 seconds to
| connect, and it doesn't always work on the first try. At
| worst, after another try, it works fine. Initial pairing
| process was a bit meh, but it wasn't terrible.
|
| But Apple's keyboard is some sort of black magic when it
| comes to both battery life and connectivity (same with
| their trackpad tbh). I plug it in to charge maybe once
| every couple of months, and even then it doesn't get
| close to being fully drained (usually around 15-20% left
| by that point). And that's despite me using it for my
| full-time job. The connectivity is also wildly good. No
| need to hold a button to wake it up, I just press any key
| and it connects in a couple of seconds just flawlessly.
| Initial pairing or switching between different devices is
| braindead easy too (which I do daily, to switch between
| my personal and work macbooks). I just connect it to
| whichever machine I want to use it with using the
| included cable, then disconnect, and it is automatically
| wirelessly paired to that machine. It is just remarkable
| that I have been doing it for almost 2 years now, and not
| once have I had even a single hiccup.
|
| Using Apple's keyboard was what convinced me to switch my
| Windows one to wireless as well (had a wired HHKB Pro 2
| before that). No wires is just so convenient. And with
| the only downside being that sometimes my current HHKB
| sometimes takes 5 seconds to connect after waking up from
| sleep, it ended up being totally worth it (and with the
| Apple's MKB, there were zero downsides for me at all).
|
| And I am saying this as someone who used to be all about
| wired-only mechanical keyboards for years and I still
| have a few with MX Reds/Browns/Blues sitting in my old
| equipment box.
| [deleted]
| visarga wrote:
| If you don't try a few switches how do you know you got the
| best ones for your taste? Some are clicky, some are linear,
| some have double clicks (both going up and down), some are
| heavy, others are light.
|
| The caps matter too - full height, half height, flat or with
| a small depression in the middle, various types of plastic,
| with painted symbols or injection molded symbols for light
| transparency.
| Volundr wrote:
| This comment perfectly sums up my experience trying to get
| into mechanical keyboards. So many choices and no good way
| of trying them out to figure out what I'd actually like.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Because a) I've used IBM buckling spring keyboards and b)
| I've tried a lot of them on displays at shops. There were
| also switch samplers on display, so I was able to do side
| by side comparisons.
|
| My requirements were clear. Light, some feedback, not so
| noisy, which is squarely brown.
|
| Caps were easy. Put your fingers. Write a Hello World code,
| see how it feels. Is it alright? Done.
|
| I've used ~15 keyboards in my life, if not more. I know
| what I like and I'm looking for.
| visarga wrote:
| Good for you. I ordered a switch sampler online and 2-3
| keyboards until I found one that works for me. It's hard
| to know what you'll like unless you use it for a few
| days.
|
| For example I have a heavy + linear keyboard, I was
| originally disappointed by it but I grew into it in a few
| weeks. Now I love the energy I get from the rebound of
| the keys.
| Kerrick wrote:
| This is also exactly the kind of thing I was looking for and
| the reason I bought a CODE Keyboard years ago when they came
| out. I don't know whether my keys are swappable and I don't
| care. I just wanted something to replace my Model M that has
| super and media keys and a backlight.
| renw0rp wrote:
| Can you point me to multi device, Bluetooth enabled (and
| reliable) keyboards in $60 range?
|
| I would see myself buying one of those if it was a bit cheaper
| (they will drop in price for sure) and if I didn't have enough
| keyboards.
| dvtrn wrote:
| Dierya makes an assortment of multi-device (switch devices
| via a key combo) BT keyboards that are _pretty close_ to your
| price range. The DK63 was my first mechanical when I fell ass
| backwards into the hobby.
| zemo wrote:
| > someone who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is
| daunted by doing any research into what mechanical keyboard
| options exist out there.
|
| honestly I was into mechanical keyboards for a while, I put
| together a few kits, I bought into group buys on individual
| hand-crafted keys, group buys on keysets, and bought a HHKB to
| try topre switches. After a while I just stopped, because the
| scene is incredibly disorganized and constantly shifting (e.g.,
| I was into mechanical keyboards for a year or two and
| /r/budgetkeebs didn't even exist, but lots of my friends still
| know me as the keyboard enthusiast guy so they always ask me
| where to get a keyboard). The barrier to entry is very
| substantial. There are a lot of people who would like a nicer
| keyboard who don't want to have to deal with that nonsense.
|
| Take that whole concept, and now think about webcams. People
| have money to burn and spent a lot of time on video chat
| because of Covid. How many people sat around and did hours and
| hours of research to buy the perfect webcam? How many people
| heard the Logitech 1080p webcam (the C920x I think?) was pretty
| good, bought it, plugged it in, had a good product and
| literally never thought about it again? I'm willing to bet that
| second group is easily ten times as large as the first group.
| And alllllllll those people see "Logitech" and all they think
| is "it's a peripheral that will probably work well that I don't
| have to think about". That's an enormous market.
|
| anyway I can't figure out if the MX means the switches have
| Cherry MX stems or not, which is annoying. Not something I
| would buy, but definitely a frustratingly underserved market
| segment.
| user3939382 wrote:
| Logitech Unifying Receiver is basically rebranded, slightly-
| tweaked bluetooth from what I can tell. I've had a lot of them
| running in the same room together and not had a problem.
|
| I have a ridiculously priced Topre Realforce, but when friends
| and family ask for a recommendation or I'm helping them setup a
| machine I would definitely recommend something like this if
| they're up for spending a little more. Historically I've been
| recommending the Logitech K840 in those scenarios. This looks
| like a wireless upgrade to that.
| sillystuff wrote:
| The Logitech Unifying Receiver uses an nRF24LU1+. They use a
| Nordic Semiconductor proprietary protocol, "ShockBurst".
|
| https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/Wireless/Nordic/nRF24LU1.
| .. https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/nRF24-series
|
| This chip was pretty popular for non-bluetooth keyboard/mouse
| dongles, not just Logitech.
| user3939382 wrote:
| I found this comparison between that protocol and BLE
| https://d.lij.uno/misc-nrf24-ble.html it looks like the
| radios are very similar and can with some limitations be
| used for both, but the protocols differ
| [deleted]
| tmottabr wrote:
| this does not use the old unifying received.. it use their
| new bolt receiver.. the two are not compatible with each
| other..
|
| i don't know about the Unifying but the bolt is certainly
| based on Bluetooth, BT 5.0 Low Power to be exact..
| Gigachad wrote:
| Eh, I really like the Logitech wireless dongle. So much more
| reliable than Bluetooth and it works on the bios screen as
| well.
|
| Never really cared about swapping switches much and I want my
| keyboard to be wireless. I'd consider buying this if I didn't
| already own the regular mx keys.
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| I've found Bluetooth to be much more reliable in the presence
| of obstructions and interference. Learned this the hard way
| when I tried to put a computer behind my TV.
| tekknik wrote:
| This is typically why they include extension cables so you
| can move the dongle in a more receptive area.
| bbarn wrote:
| The fact that it IS a dongle is the major disadvantage. Most
| laptops have only one or two USB-B slots and many are moving
| towards USB-C for everything. Most also have very functional
| bluetooth built in. It's just not worth a minor improvement
| in connection quality (which is debatable, reading these
| comments) to lose the only slot I have in a laptop. I have to
| unplug my external keyboard in order to use my headset if I'm
| not using a dock. This was enough to make me spend my own
| money to replace the logitech mouse I was issued at work.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| My k860 and MX Master does not need the dongle, although I
| find I get slightly lower latency with it than with regular
| bluetooth. I leave it plugged in to my docking station and
| switch the mouse to bluetooth if I take it to a conference
| room.
| pantulis wrote:
| I have a MX Keys and it works with the dongle _and_
| bluetooth, your choice. I have both the mouse and the MX
| Keys using the dongle connected to my display 's USB hub so
| the mouse & keyboards are always there for the cmputer that
| gets connected to the USB-C cable. It's uncredibly
| convenient.
| conk wrote:
| This is my exact reason for going Logitech keyboard and
| mouse. I have a work Mac and personal PC. With a
| thunderbolt dock I can use either one at my desk. I don't
| have to fiddle with pairing anything, just plug in the
| computer and the keyboard and mouse show up. If I travel
| then I just pack my mouse and pair it with my laptop via
| Bluetooth while away.
| electroly wrote:
| This keyboard works with either Bluetooth or the dongle;
| expand the "System Requirements" section.
| unwind wrote:
| *USB-A, the B ones are for devices, i.e. what you typically
| saw (in the micro variety) on cell phones before UBS-C
| started happning. The big "original" USB-B ports are still
| common on printers.
| cbm-vic-20 wrote:
| In my setup, the dongle sits in one of the USB ports in the
| monitor, never to be seen again.
| NonNefarious wrote:
| Then the question to ask is why Logitech STILL doesn't have
| USB-C dongles?
|
| The ability to combine keyboard and mouse into one
| connection is a huge selling point, and Bluetooth sucks.
| But Logitech is merely coasting on its fading brand, not
| even bothering to update its connectors.
| tekknik wrote:
| I plug in 3-4 cables on my laptop a day. I don't see why
| plugging in a dock is so difficult. Hell all you really
| need is a USB hub that connects via USB-c. One cable and
| done.
| thefz wrote:
| > Most laptops have only one or two USB-B slots and many
| are moving towards USB-C
|
| Eh, don't buy those models then. Send the market a message.
| innocenat wrote:
| Having more than 2 USB-A at this point is weird though,
| as things are moving toward USB-C.
|
| Ideally I would want 4 USB-A and 4 USB-C but I am not
| delusional enough.
| funcDropShadow wrote:
| It even connects with other computers [1], note the wildcard
| for the firmware version in the CVE.
|
| [1]: https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2019-13052#
| fooker wrote:
| >which is a bit like selling a computer by showing you a
| picture of the case and telling you it has "a CPU".
|
| This seems to be the standard Apple strategy, which has worked
| wonders.
| solatic wrote:
| > I don't get who this product is for
|
| Mechanical keyboards are filtering down into corporate IT
| purchasing after they've entered the consumer mainstream
| (gaming keyboards and the like), particularly in smaller /
| "hip" companies that decide to buy smaller amounts of premium
| hardware instead of trying to shave pennies off unit costs in
| volume (Fortune 500 etc.). Logitech's retail reach makes this a
| much simpler decision for those purchasing agents, who will
| likely be able to purchase these through pre-existing channels,
| compared to smaller outlets offering specialized keyboards.
| krnlpnc wrote:
| > Logitech's wireless dongles (which are notoriously bad about
| both causing and being super-sensitive to 2.4Ghz-spectrum
| interference).
|
| Really? Been using Logitech devices for years and never had any
| issue with interference.
| sdflhasjd wrote:
| I have had issues with the unifying receiver when I've
| plugged it into the back of a PC in the midst of a tangle of
| wires, but generally it's more reliable and lower latency
| than bluetooth
| GrabbinD33ze69 wrote:
| I'm 99% sure this is just they're G915 wireless keyboard, just
| without a volume wheel and the aesthetics appealing to the
| gamer crowd. Also have you have a poor experience withe the
| 2.4ghz tech they label as "lightspeed"? I use it right next to
| a wifi router and I haven't noticed any issues.
| tmottabr wrote:
| this use the bolt receiver not the lightspeed receiver..
|
| lightspeed received is one devide per dongle because it is
| supposed to be lower latency..
|
| the bolt is the replacement for their old unifying receiver,
| it support multiple devices with the same dongle and it is
| based on bt low power..
| MivLives wrote:
| Switches are probably either cherry's low profile switch, or
| Kailh's version 2 of it's choc low profile switch.
|
| I honestly have no idea why this was posted on HN, there's a
| ton of other keyboards that have the same specs and features.
| Sure it's got Logitech's priority dongle, but as you point out,
| what's here that's not on a 70 dollar gk65.
| xd1936 wrote:
| I think it was posted more as an interesting industry trend.
| It's acknowledgement of a former niche turning into a real
| industry from the big name in the space.
| MivLives wrote:
| Which trend? I'm not sure I'd consider low profile a trend,
| and logitech has been making mechanical keyboards for
| years. They've even made other low profile mechanical
| keyboards.
| tmottabr wrote:
| They made mechanical keyboards in their G brand that
| target gamers..
|
| This is the first time they make an wireless mechanical
| keyboard in their "regular" brand..
| xd1936 wrote:
| I don't mind the Logitech Unifying Receiver dongle, but I wish
| they'd make a USB-C one already.
| lwhi wrote:
| > I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone
| who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by
| doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist
| out there.
|
| I agree. For this price you could buy a great keyboard from
| Vortex with swap able keys .. which click the way you like it.
| kodah wrote:
| > Enthusiasts will see the non-standard switches and lack of
| hotswap, and the fact that it's Logitech, honestly, and will
| bounce off.
|
| > Non-enthusiasts will see that this Logitech keyboard is $150,
| but doesn't offer all that much more than their cheaper
| wireless multi-device keyboards, and will just buy a cheaper
| non-mech option.
|
| If you find yourself in this bucket, check out Keychron. They
| make mechanical and optical hot swappable keyboards that are
| amazingly durable, multi-device, multi-platform, and cheap. The
| only bother you (sometimes) have to put up with is batch
| ordering.
| darzu wrote:
| Last I checked, there were no mechanical keyboard using
| dongles. Way better than bluetooth.
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| I have a Nuphy keyboard on order that supports a 2.4GHz USB
| dongle in addition to Bluetooth. It was one of the main
| reasons I went with that brand.
| Macha wrote:
| This keyboard already exists for the gamer market, it's
| called the G915, it uses a dongle.
| 45ure wrote:
| I have a CIY Tester68 which comes with a 2.4GHz receiver, and
| also features Bluetooth 5.0. The hot-swappable board (no
| switches and keycaps) cost under $15 and powered by 2 x AAA.
| leokennis wrote:
| This is a known business idea right? Offer a watered down
| version of something that is cool but also uncertain, with the
| reassurance of a brand name so you know you'll at least not
| regret it. Like Starbucks.
|
| "No one ever got fired for buying IBM/Microsoft/<insert here>"
|
| Loss avoidance at its finest.
| terramex wrote:
| According to Verge it uses Kailh Choc V2 Low Profile Switches:
| https://kono.store/products/kailh-choc-mx-switches
|
| Also Logitech's propertiary dongle is not necessary, it can use
| Bluetooth.
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/24/23137797/logitech-mx-mast...
| Someone1234 wrote:
| If that's actually the case then Logitech made a mistake by
| not advertising that front and center. Those are solid
| switches from a well known brand, that's what people want for
| $150.
| lb4r wrote:
| I don't think their target audience for this keyboard is
| people who care about the brand of switches. They are more
| or less marketing this as a 'premium office keyboard.'
| [deleted]
| Damogran6 wrote:
| Bluetooth is great, and I use it on two of the three systems
| I hang my Logitech MX off of, but that dongle works to get
| the third into the BIOS, which I don't think Bluetooth will
| get you.
|
| (and I have a mac keyboard stashed in the back of the closet
| for when I need to boot THAT into recovery mode)
| wasyl wrote:
| > Also Logitech's propertiary dongle is not necessary, it can
| use Bluetooth.
|
| I tried Logitech G915 TKL keyboard a while back. One of the
| dealbreakers was that while connected by Bluetooth, you
| couldn't use any of the _smart_ features of the keyboard like
| macros or more advanced backlight options. It may be
| different with this keyboard, but I definitely wouldn't
| assume that all of the features are available via Bluetooth,
| sadly
| falcolas wrote:
| They're listing proprietary switches on the linked page:
| "Graphite MX Mechanical"
|
| Perhaps they're rebranded generics, can't say.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Logitech is building their own switches for at least a
| couple generations now. I don't think they would be
| "rebranded generics".
|
| I'll be waiting for the reviews, though.
| moondev wrote:
| https://www.reviewgeek.com/118706/logitech-mx-mechanical-
| min...
|
| they look like https://kono.store/products/kailh-choc-mx-
| switches with standard cherry stems so you can use any
| keycaps
|
| https://www.reviewgeek.com/p/uploads/2022/05/90799f4d.jpg
| tstrimple wrote:
| > tied to Logitech's wireless dongles (which are notoriously
| bad about both causing and being super-sensitive to 2.4Ghz-
| spectrum interference).
|
| I have the opposite experience across probably half a dozen
| Logitech devices over the last decade or so. The dongle is so
| much more reliable and far lower latency than bluetooth. I'd
| take Logitech unified receiver over bluetooth all day long. I
| haven't had nearly as much luck with other 2.4Ghz receivers.
| I'm also using a RK Royal Kludge wireless keyboard and it's
| very particular about where the receiver is plugged in and
| distance from the keyboard.
| [deleted]
| keybored wrote:
| This submission is about a keyboard but I'm learning a lot more
| about keyboard enthusiasts.
| Shalomboy wrote:
| Glad to hear the r/mk opinion on this. I've been a diehard for
| Logitech multi-device peripherals since I picked up a Triathlon
| mouse on sale in 2018 and I just got myself an MX Mini
| keyboard. For folks who frequently switch between devices it's
| a godsend. I was glad to see it in mechanical form, but I can't
| understand why they wouldn't do their due diligence on
| mechanical keyboard users and their needs.
| shuntress wrote:
| I have maybe too many keyboards.
|
| I've scratch-built keyboards from disparate parts. I've put
| kits together. I've flashed keyboard firmware. I know how to
| solder and de-solder.
|
| I'm not super plugged-in to the community but I do consider
| myself an enthusiast.
|
| I don't care about hot swappable keys; soldering is easy
| enough. I don't really care who makes the switches as long as
| they feel good enough. I would _prefer_ standard stems but I
| know I 'm not really likely to swap any keycaps.
|
| I'll probably buy one of these when I get sick of my current
| work keyboard's lack of a numpad.
| Tsiklon wrote:
| From the looks of the side profile, this is using low profile
| mechanical switches, which seem uncommon or at the very least
| not popular in the mech keyboard community.
|
| I don't think that they're targeting the same sort of user as
| the enthusiast board manufacturers do.
|
| I mean the MX Keys is a popular product outside of mech
| keyboard circles, this may be positioned as an alternative for
| those users
| mas-ev wrote:
| I think there isn't adoption to low profile keys because of
| compatibility and snobs.
|
| I have been using the gaming version of this keyboard (G915)
| for years and would prefer not going back to high rise keys.
|
| Better ergonomics, looks better, easier to clean, less wobbly
| keys, smaller chance of breaking a keycap.
| Macha wrote:
| > smaller chance of breaking a keycap.
|
| So from a sample size of one, I've never broken a keyboard
| on a full height key, I've broken 3-4 on laptop butterfly
| keyboards over the last 20-ish years, and I've broke one on
| a G915 in one year.
|
| I mean just look at the underside of the logitech keycaps
| with two thin prongs versus the heavier duty (and redundant
| points of connection) on the female + connector on a cherry
| key, I know which I'd bet on.
| tekknik wrote:
| > From the looks of the side profile, this is using low
| profile mechanical switches, which seem uncommon or at the
| very least not popular in the mech keyboard community.
|
| Where are you getting this from? I can count at least 3
| people I know using low profiles. Without doing a poll. Some
| people want that laptop feel in a desktop board.
| wasyl wrote:
| Have those people built the keyboard themselves, though?
| I've been periodically checking the more popular/accessible
| low-profile keyboards and other than Keychron and Logitech
| it was difficult to find something available in Europe.
| Low-profile switches definitely exist, but keyboards are
| pretty rare. If you add requirements like USB-C and
| bluetooth, there's really not much choice left (or is
| there? I'd love to be proven wrong)
| bmitc wrote:
| > I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone
| who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by
| doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist
| out there.
|
| Why is the mechanical keyboard community so elitist? I don't
| have time to research a keyboard made by some mom and pop
| keyboard operation when I already know it won't work (easily if
| at all) with my setup.
|
| With Logitech's unifying receiver, I can have a completely
| wireless setup with a single keyboard and two mice (two
| different kinds that I switch between for wrist health and
| comfort) that I can seamlessly use with my work computer and
| home computer and the same monitor. So no wires, one monitor,
| one keyboard and mice setup, and two computers (of different
| OSs) that I switch between with a simple keyboard shortcut.
|
| I'm not into the mechanical keyboard world because I value
| ergonomics and silence over nerding out over an overly clacky
| keyboard, but since this keyboard uses Logitech's unifying
| receiver, it has value. (Edit: well, it looks like this doesn't
| use the existing unifying receiver, which is definitely a valid
| complaint.)
|
| The issues with the unifying receiver and interference are not
| specific to the receiver. As far as I understand, it's
| interference from USB 3.x ports that affects any 2.5 GHz
| wireless receiver.
| [deleted]
| chadash wrote:
| The MX Master 3 mouse is far and away the best mouse I've ever
| used. It switches easily between computers, _feels_ great, has
| great functionality and most importantly, doesn 't leave my
| wrist hurting at the end of the day (which I what brought me to
| try it out in the first place).
|
| Yes, I can look into other options, but this is targeting
| people like me, who are already in the logitech ecosystem and
| are happy there. I can try my luck with another brand that I
| may or may not like more, or I can go with this and hope that
| it's of similar quality to other devices in the MX sub-brand.
| itstomkent wrote:
| Man if you like the MX Master 3 you would have loved the
| original Performance MX. They've made this mouse worse with
| every iteration. The first one was frickin awesome but when
| it eventually wore out I've slowly iterated through the MX
| Master series (1, 2 and 3 now). Honestly if I could get the
| hyperscroll on someone elses wired mouse (Mionix Noas Pro w/
| hyperscroll wheel would be a dream) I would jump in a
| heartbeat but I just can't quit that damned scroll wheel.
| falsenapkin wrote:
| Unlike their fantastic pointing devices, the keyboards are
| always lacking some killer feature. MX Ergo, MX Master, MX
| Anywhere, MX Vertical all have something that basically no
| other brand offers.
|
| What have the MX keyboards offered? This is a generic mech,
| another one had a scroll wheel... where's the no fuss tenting
| split with thumb features beating function and price point of
| the an Ergodox or Keyboardio?
| Izikiel43 wrote:
| I don't know about mx keyboards, but I love their ergo
| keyboard:
|
| https://www.logitech.com/en-
| us/products/keyboards/k860-split...
|
| Between that and the MX ergo, bye bye wrist pain.
| falsenapkin wrote:
| I don't doubt it's a great product that offers real
| relief to users, but it's not their "MX" brand and it's
| not a serious departure from the average keyboard. You
| can get the same style of split-ish keyboard from
| Microsoft and others for many years now.
| cactus2093 wrote:
| > and the fact that it's Logitech, honestly, and will bounce
| off
|
| What's wrong with Logitech?
|
| I see a lot of praise for the MX Master mouse and keyboard, I
| use the mouse myself and it's been great.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Why are hot-swappable switches so important?
|
| > I don't get who this product is for, other than maybe someone
| who has heard mechanical keyboards are cool but is daunted by
| doing any research into what mechanical keyboard options exist
| out there.
|
| I like mechanical keyboards but I just don't care. What
| research do I possibly need to do?
| heretogetout wrote:
| I'm not sure if you know this -- I certainly didn't until
| recently -- but the mechanical keyboard community uses the
| term "hot-swappable" to mean "user-swappable". They may well
| also be hot-swappable, as in changeable while powered on, but
| that's not the intention of the term.
| falsenapkin wrote:
| > notoriously bad about both causing and being super-sensitive
| to 2.4Ghz-spectrum interference
|
| Can someone speak to this?
|
| I'm asking because I have a Nintendo Switch and I play games
| with split Joy Cons in docked mode, my right cons have been
| absurdly unreliable and I'm trying to understand the reason.
| I've had 4 pairs but they all suffer and the left never does.
| The console is to my left and my laptop with the Logitech
| dongle is to my right so I wonder if that has something to do
| with it. Turning off my mouse seems to help but maybe I should
| be removing the dongle too...
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| It looks like they are just using low-profile mx switches.
| These are not proprietary, just uncommon.
|
| It is annoying that seemingly nobody in the entirety of
| Logitech could be bothered to spend 3 minutes scrolling
| /r/mechanicalkeyboards to see how mkb customers describe their
| own keyboard and realize that they should put the proper switch
| name directly in the product description... but that is more or
| less what I have come to expect from a BigCorp.
| nahuel0x wrote:
| Has a Trackpoint? No => ignore it.
| amelius wrote:
| Has a NumPad? Yes => ignore it.
| obituary_latte wrote:
| Wasn't very easy to find, but here are the differences between
| the 3 key types:
|
| >Linear switches, colored red, are the smoothest, with no tactile
| bump and little noise.
|
| >Tactile switches, colored brown, have a little discernible bump
| and little sound. It would be the one closest to a traditional
| typing experience you find on our MX Keys keyboards.
|
| >Clicky switches, colored blue, have a discernible bump and
| sound. They are the loudest of the three switch types.
|
| https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/5216332313495-FAQ...
| bozhark wrote:
| Let's take the thing and make it like the other thing.
|
| Wait, aren't you making oranges into apples?
|
| And charging more!
|
| Where's the benefit? Where's the increased productivity?
|
| Le what?
| cwp wrote:
| Ah man. I just bought a G915 TKL, as the closest thing to what I
| _really_ wanted, which was this.
| spoiler wrote:
| I got the G915 TKL, too and love it. The only thing I wish for
| from this version would be the dual-labeled key caps with Mac
| keys... But I still definitely prefer the G915. What do you
| like about this more? Is it because it's less flashy than the
| G915, maybe?
| cwp wrote:
| Yeah, I don't care about all the gamer-centric stuff. I
| wanted a wireless keyboard with firm, low profile keys and
| the ability to switch between several Macs easily, ideally
| just by plugging my hub into the laptop. This is quite nice,
| but I had to use Karabiner to swap Cmd and Option on the
| left. I still haven't been able to get the FN and "menu" keys
| on the right to behave.
|
| I'll have to look closely at this new keyboard, but it seems
| to check all the boxes, and I might buy one.
| Invictus0 wrote:
| This is just an ad, why is this on HN?
| davidbarker wrote:
| It takes you to the product page (primary source) for a product
| that was just announced today.
|
| I use an MX Master 3 mouse (which they also updated today), and
| I thought the HN crowd might be interested (good or bad) in a
| new mechanical keyboard from Logitech.
| cosmiccatnap wrote:
| I'll be the one to say it. For the price point you can build a
| very good custom keyboard with low profile keys of your choice.
| This is a fact that Logitech, Corsair, and razer, hope you never
| bother to find out.
| brk wrote:
| Of course you _can_ , but not everybody wants to.
|
| Right now my desk is littered with ESP32 modules, small
| breadboards and random electronics related to a few projects I
| am working on.
|
| I could build a keyboard nearly from scratch - I have a CNC
| machine I could carve a case on, Atmel chips that I could use
| to make a USB interface, etc. But I don't have the interest in
| building or modding a keyboard, I just want to buy something
| that works so I can concentrate on other things.
|
| IMO Logitech is better than average at market research and
| product targeting. My guess is they will sell hundreds of
| thousands of these easily, probably just not to the mechanical
| keyboard hacker market.
| vehemenz wrote:
| Can you though?
|
| I am trying to build a custom keyboard. It's exhausting to sort
| through the bad layouts, tacky RGB cases, and ugly keycaps.
| Custom keycap sets rarely have legends for function/media keys.
| If I find something I like, everything is sold out, or the
| "drop" has ended.
|
| It's potentially a lot of work. I love the idea of a big
| manufacturer designing a keyboard that checks many boxes for
| people. Decent switches, a decent layout, and actual legends on
| keycaps will go a long way.
| xgbi wrote:
| I'll be the one to ask for it: you saying that without any hint
| on where and how to procure this means that I can't take your
| message seriously.
|
| Provide proof?
| flr03 wrote:
| Most people are not interested into building keyboards.
| klausa wrote:
| Am I the only one that likes the _idea_ of customizable
| keyboards, but just can't stand how the mechanical keyboarsd
| feel?
|
| I wish the customization options and custom keycaps, etc. would
| trickle to down to the non-mechanical market.
|
| I understand that's not where the money (probably) is, but I
| actively dislike the noise and physical feeling of mechanical
| keyboards, but would _love_ to be able to build and customize
| one.
|
| I want a low-profile keys, scissor switches, but with cute
| colorways and in layout that doesn't make my wrists feel like
| they'll explode after 30 minutes.
| riskable wrote:
| > I wish the customization options and custom keycaps, etc.
| would trickle to down to the non-mechanical market.
|
| Just get a 3D printer and all your cheap, completely custom
| keycap desires will be answered...
|
| https://github.com/riskable/keycap_playground
|
| I'm typing on Keycap Playground keycaps right now:
|
| https://gfycat.com/costlyglaringhyracotherium
|
| Also, that gif is of my _completely_ custom analog hall effect
| keyboard that uses 3D printed Void Switches which you can
| _also_ customize to your heart 's delight:
|
| https://github.com/riskable/void_switch
|
| (Make them feel however you like since the design is parametric
| and you can customize the feel by changing the total travel,
| distance between the magnets at rest, etc)
|
| For reference, I'm spending most of my time working on the
| firmware so that I can start selling some (though "the plan" is
| mostly surrounding selling PCBs/kits and "print it your damned
| self!" hehe). Here's the numpad I've been working on lately (to
| develop the firmware):
|
| https://gfycat.com/softfixedfanworms
| ValentinPearce wrote:
| There are plenty of options, however they do require at least
| some time and money investment.
|
| With low-profile switches, you can have switches that are as
| light or heavy as you want. I guess the travel distance is what
| makes the feeling the most different from scissor switches.
|
| I'm alternating between two radically different keyboards and a
| semi limited budget: a GMMK Pro with extremely silent heavy
| tactile switches (Boba U4s) and high profile keycaps, and a
| Ferris Sweep, split columnar ergo with Low profile switches
| (Choc burned orange so still heavy tactile but that's my
| preference).
|
| Both are more quiet than an standard plastic rubber dome
| keyboard. I can hear the springs in the low profile one but it
| is apparently easy enough to mod, it's just not worth it to me
| as I don't bother my colleagues and I'm not bothered by it
| myself.
|
| It seems like a lot of work is needed to emulate scissor
| switches but it may be worth it. Depending on your area, you
| might find someone willing to lend/send you a keychron low
| profile to try out.
|
| I guess most people who enjoy scissor switches are content with
| what is already on offer.
| omni wrote:
| They make low-profile mechanicals that feel and sound much
| different than the full profile versions you're probably
| thinking of. I have one of these, it's quiet enough for work
| and feels great with the banana switches I threw in it:
| https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k3-wireless-mecha...
| tushar-r wrote:
| Doesn't look like they have easily user replaceable batteries,
| which means a default no from me.
| google234123 wrote:
| I've always been happy with my logitech purchases. They've been
| very reliable and when I had an issue with one keyboard the RMA
| process was great!
| Macha wrote:
| Is this just the G915 without the gamery branding?
| jack_daniels wrote:
| mas-ev wrote:
| Looks like it. It is probably using the same switches since you
| can choose what switch type you want.
|
| I don't understand all the hate in this comment section.
|
| I love my G915 and I would prefer this design compared to the
| gamer RGB for an office setting or professional desk.
| alecfreudenberg wrote:
| Doesn't seem to compete with comparable mechanicals. The Flow
| feature is the only appealing thing here.
|
| I would have liked to see the VR keyboard tracking included. I
| would have considered one then.
|
| I'll note that I love my MX Master 3 and haven't found anything
| that even comes close.
| jldl805 wrote:
| I use MX Keys, MX Keys Mini, and enthusiast mechanical
| keyboards. I used to use Flow but switched to Mouse Without
| Borders.
|
| I am interested in this, like the Bolt connectors (no wake up
| lag like bluetooth), and won't use Flow.
|
| Some of you need to realize you are not representative of the
| purchasing public at large...
| mcdonje wrote:
| Compare with: https://www.keychron.com/collections/low-profile-
| keyboard-co...
| ProtoMathics wrote:
| do you have any low KEY TRAVEL silen keyboards ? waht i
| absolutelly hate about "mechanical" keyboards is that
| unnecessary long key travel which makes typing slower. and that
| constatn freaking noise is cancer.
| jansan wrote:
| Wooting has been developing optical switches for which you
| can adjust the key travel distance. Unfortunately they are
| notoriously bad at keeping their promised release dates, so I
| run out of patience and went with an keychron and equipped it
| with yellow switches.
| mcdonje wrote:
| I'm not associated with Keychron, but I have their K7 with
| optical "brown" switches. The travel seems normal to me and
| I've had no complaints about the sound. Other switches may be
| louder.
|
| Absolutely no complaints on design or build. My only
| complaint with them is the K5 has been out of stock for as
| long as I've been aware of them. I love the K7 for travel,
| but I want something similarly low profile for my desk that
| has a number pad.
| stephen_g wrote:
| Do they have a USB-C receiver yet? Doesn't say here.
|
| EDIT: Found it, it's in "System Requirements" - USB-A. That's
| annoying.
| unwind wrote:
| There are adapters, but that's another $8 or whatever [1] and
| more stuff sticking out from the computer, of course.
|
| [1] https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=13507
| book_mike wrote:
| I used to love Das Keyboard. I love Keychron now.
| jansan wrote:
| I still own a Das Keyboard II in pristine condition with
| unlabeled POM keycaps and Cherry blue switches. Was not so
| happy with Das Keyboard 4, now I am a happy Kechron user, too.
| dsr_ wrote:
| Can someone explain to me the attraction of wireless keyboards? I
| get wireless mice: they're much easier to reposition - but my
| keyboard stays in one place all the time. Do other people move
| their keyboards repeatedly?
| Macha wrote:
| I have my keyboard connected to two computers from working from
| home. I have my work Mac running connected to my primary
| monitor and my personal computer connected to my secondary
| monitor because I've ran out of usb ports on my Mac. The
| wireless dongle + Bluetooth feature lets me have the keyboard
| connected to both without needing a KVM setup.
|
| The laptop also moves, and I take the wireless keyboard with me
| when in the office. That way I can use a real keyboard in both
| locations - my employer does provide the wired Apple keyboards
| in office, but I'm not a fan.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| I am really surprised by the benefit being switching between
| machines. For me switching bluetooth devices always has been
| much harder than just plugging a cable into a different
| machine. Is the dongle making this easier? Don't you still
| have to switch what machine the dongle is plugged into?
| Macha wrote:
| The keyboard stays paired to one machine over bluetooth,
| and the other via a dongle (which appears to that computer
| as just a regular usb keyboard). The dongle is some
| proprietary protocol over 2.4ghz, it's not bluetooth. I've
| heard some people in this thread mention that makes it
| susceptible to interference from places crowded with wifi
| devices, but for me at least it's been always reliable.
|
| The dongle is instant on. Bluetooth wake up is fast
| (compared to repairing, or having to disconnect one device
| to connect another, which I guess is your experience you're
| comparing to?). So changing to the machine with the dongle
| in it is instant, the one with bluetooth connection ~1s.
|
| The way I do it does mean the setup only works for n=2
| devices, but also reading the thread there seems to be some
| multi-machine feature in the app if you use that too.
|
| Meanwhile using USB cables to switch means crawling under
| my desk or having multiple cables cluttering my desk.
| gnicholas wrote:
| I have my computer plugged to my bedroom TV. I sit on an office
| chair 5 feet away and have a keyboard and trackpad sitting on a
| lap desk. I love this setup and it requires wireless
| peripherals.
| welfare wrote:
| Easy peasy, I don't want to have cables cluttering my desk and
| am willing to pay a premium for any device that comes in a
| wireless format.
| mbesto wrote:
| Yes.
|
| 1) I switch between a mac (work) and windows (leisure/gaming)
| and thus switch between a mac wireless keyboard and a
| mechanical windows one. I move one to the side so the desk
| doesn't get cluttered.
|
| 2) Desktop cords depending on what computer I'm using are a
| pain to route properly.
| octagons wrote:
| I just use one of these: https://www.rosewill.com/rosewill-
| rcus-17003-2-x-usb-type-b-...
| mbesto wrote:
| Same! But really just for headset/mouse. The keyboard
| layout for MacOS and Win suck to use on the same keyboard.
| neogodless wrote:
| I'm familiar with the use case for this. I don't want to use
| the same keyboard for work (typing) all day that I'd use for
| gaming after work. I also don't want TWO wired keyboards. So if
| I can have a wireless gaming keyboard that I set off out of the
| way during work, and then can push my main keyboard (wired
| ergonomic membrane) out of the way and use the gaming keyboard
| (wireless mechanical), I have the ideal input device for each
| use case.
|
| (If the Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard came in wireless, I'd get
| one - one less wire making it sub-optimal when I'm ready to
| swap keyboards.)
| endor5639 wrote:
| The Microsoft sculpt keyboard is their wireless ergo model
| neogodless wrote:
| Yes, I used it for a while. I have a strong preference for
| full-depth keys over chiclet.
| Izikiel43 wrote:
| The problem is that those keyboards are bound to their
| receiver, so if the receiver dies (which happens more often
| than not), the keyboard is useless.
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| Some people put them in their lap and use a hard mouse-mat,
| some like the aesthetics.
|
| Some people carry external keyboard and mouse with their laptop
| for when they dock.
|
| There are a multitude of reasons, but for something fixed to a
| desktop I don't find many upsides personally.
| julianlam wrote:
| In my opinion it's an aesthetic thing, to not have any wires
| snaking round back of the desk to the computer.
| mewse wrote:
| I'd argue that when you're doing it properly, the cable is
| responsible for at least 50% of the aesthetic of any nice
| keyboard setup.
|
| Going wireless would be considerably less visually
| interesting than what you can do with a nice, attractive
| cable. (but I'll concede that wireless is heaps better than
| using the ugly/boring/fragile thin black cables that
| typically get bundled in with keyboards at no additional
| cost)
| raydev wrote:
| More use case:
|
| - I play games using a separate, even smaller, keyboard. Easy
| to pick up my wireless work+everything else kb and toss it
| somewhere out of the way
|
| - Sometimes I like to recline my chair way back and continue
| typing with the keyboard on my lap
| stu2b50 wrote:
| 1) less wires 2) offices where you don't have set desks 3)
| easily swapping between computers without a kvm
| ipiz0618 wrote:
| It's just a lot more freedom with standing desks? The wire is
| messy and dangerous if tripped over.
| darzu wrote:
| I work and game from my couch projected to my tv.
| vvillena wrote:
| Yes, that's the main use case. I rearrange my desk depending on
| what I do, and going wireless makes that process much easier.
| Connecting a computer to my living room TV is also much easier,
| as I can easily use it from the couch.
| kasperni wrote:
| > Do other people move their keyboards repeatedly?
|
| No, but I move my laptop repeatedly.
| leokennis wrote:
| I get your point but really there's no downside to them. I
| switch batteries once a year and for the rest they are 100% as
| reliable as a wired one.
|
| Even if I use a wireless feature (switching the keyboard to
| another computer, typing while farther away from my desk) only
| once a year I still win out.
| pcurve wrote:
| If you have a large, full size keyboard that is already taking
| up a large amount of space on your desk, and you have a large
| desk surface, then I agree the wireless keyboard doesn't seem
| like huge benefit.
|
| I've had big and small keyboards. With smaller one, I find
| myself setting aside to make more room on desk on ad-hoc basis,
| since my desk is rather small.
|
| Also, having a wire sticking out of small keyboard perceptibly
| creates more visual clutter. Could just be me ;-)
| dukeofdoom wrote:
| I have a low profile keychron k2, and I like it for the most
| part. Looks great. However, I tried out the logitech ergo
| keyboard and it feels nicer to my hands. I would probably switch
| to it, if it had LED lights. Mechanical switches and no number
| pad and I would definitely switch.
| 2c2c2c wrote:
| i don't understand how this front pages HN?
| michaelmrose wrote:
| Bad points. The cable is for charging only there is no way to
| simply plug it in to minimize latency. It has no standard caps
| lock led and instead blinks the LED on the caps lock key which is
| surely enabled by some low level functionality that is hard to
| disable.
|
| I would bet dollars to donuts that if you swapped caps lock for
| escape it would still turn the blinking LED under the key on or
| off every time you hit escape. If there is a way to disable that
| its probably in some windows only software.
|
| If you want a consumer mechanical keyboard where you don't have
| to futz with switches or group buys at the same price point I'm
| thinking Das Keyboard.
| lvl102 wrote:
| Buy a Topre and be done with it. RealForce or HHKB. You can't go
| wrong with either of those keyboards.
|
| I am also going to say something controversial: none of the
| Cherry-style switches are worth the hassle because they're all
| flawed.
| powersnail wrote:
| As a owner of an HHKB, I don't see what's so special about
| topre. It doesn't really feel better than other mechanical
| keyboards. After the initial excitement, it's just another
| keyboard. I wouldn't recommend it in 2022.
| lvl102 wrote:
| Blasphemy! All kidding aside, I know what you mean. I say the
| same about audiophiles.
| neogodless wrote:
| You didn't say why Topre is good, or how the Cherry-style
| switches are flawed. I'm not sure what my takeaway is, other
| than what you individually like.
| modzu wrote:
| topre is fantastic but no love for cherry reds??
| sandGorgon wrote:
| so what's the recommendation for a mechanical keyboard that can
| be used in a silent, office environment (with coworkers) ?
|
| i went over some of the comments and read about "MX Browns" and
| "low profile switches", etc. What should I be googling for ?
|
| this is one of the reason me and several of my colleagues never
| got into mechanical keyboards - the sound. not all of us have the
| liberty to work at home because we prefer mechanical keyboards.
| OTOH we would prefer not to piss everyone off with loud
| keyboards. I suspect many people are in this boat.
|
| Are there mechanical keyboards which have the sound profile of a
| regular keyboard ? i know they may not be the best in the
| "mechanical keyboard feel"..but im ok with that.
| peeters wrote:
| Browns (Cherry MX is the brand you might have heard referenced,
| but other switch manufacturers tend to align their colour
| coding for analogous offerings) are noticeably quieter but
| they're not going to sound like a mushy non-mechanical switch.
| Also, they're not meant to be bottomed out but many typists do
| bottom them out frequently, which makes them louder. Still I
| find they are a lot more forgiving to your coworkers than a
| clicky switch.
|
| Part of me wants to say "that's the company's problem to fix",
| if the working arrangement is such that keystrokes can
| negatively impact your coworkers. Things like white noise
| generators and walls go a long way to dampening that.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Two things made my WASD Keyboards's blue switches _much_
| quieter:
|
| - Installing the little rubber O rings around the base of
| each switch so that it's not super loud if I do happen to
| bottom out.
|
| - Replacing the ABS keycaps with PBT. I was genuinely
| surprised at the difference that made. It's not subtle in the
| least.
|
| I still probably wouldn't use it in a coworking environment
| because I don't hate my colleagues.
| sandGorgon wrote:
| sorry im trying to figure out the jargon here. you bought a
| mechanical keyboard and then replaces the keys (ABS with
| PBT) ? is there anything that has this off-the-shelf ?
| benrow wrote:
| I'm very new to mechanical keyboards, but I just got an
| Epomaker EP84. PBT keycaps, and hot-swappable switches (I
| got brown). Very happy with it, though I've not tried any
| others. $85 (though I'm in UK, it was PS70 here).
| sandGorgon wrote:
| >Part of me wants to say "that's the company's problem to
| fix", if the working arrangement is such that keystrokes can
| negatively impact your coworkers. Things like white noise
| generators and walls go a long way to dampening that.
|
| so not all of us are based in the US. And we are limited by
| access to products like "white noise generators" and also
| land availability.
|
| I would love recommendations if possible!
| rambojazz wrote:
| After trying QMK I can never go back to any keeb with proprietary
| software
| rgoulter wrote:
| Similarly, typing with keyboards where the thumb gets access to
| more than just the spacebar is another boon. (It's nice to be
| able to use the thumbs for space, backspace, enter, escape,
| tab).
| 7839284023 wrote:
| > QMK
|
| Have a look at ZMK then, if you want to go wireless!
|
| https://zmk.dev/
| unixhero wrote:
| I have one at work, it feels absolutely fantastic. I was very
| surprised when it was used randomly at a new info kiosk.
| victorhooi wrote:
| Does anybody know if this Logitech keyboard supports custom
| keycaps?
|
| I'm sorely tempted to replace my Keychron K6 with it * Battery
| life is apparently 10 months - the Keychron K6 I'm lucky to get a
| week or so (yes, this is with backlight off) * Keychron doesn't
| report battery life over BT * Keychron - takes 3-4 seconds to
| wake from sleep each time, which gets super annoying
|
| Of course, I do love the Cherry MX Greens - wonder how the Clicky
| in the Logitech compares.
|
| And yes I want my custom Granite keycaps on this - but it's some
| low-profile version - so will it work?
| gnicholas wrote:
| One reason I'd be interested to try this is it's presumably
| easier to buy/return these than custom keyboards. I don't know
| where I can go to try out different key types, so I'm hesitant to
| drop hundreds of dollars. But if this ends up on Amazon and I can
| buy it with a 30 day return window, that makes me much more
| likely to take the plunge.
| mattnguyen wrote:
| Is there a wireless mechanical _split_ keyboard with tilt and
| wrist support?
|
| I currently have a Kinesis Freestyle Pro, which is fine for me,
| but they do not support a wireless version. This has helped with
| my wrist issues, but it's not practical for traveling.
| k2enemy wrote:
| I really wish Microsoft would make a version of the ergonomic
| sculpt with low profile mechanical switches.
| User23 wrote:
| I don't understand why virtually everyone, even DIY enthusiasts,
| appears to insist on these monstrously large 6-7 key width space
| bars. Even a 4 width spacebar would leave room for another pair
| of modifier keys comfortably located beneath the thumbs. The only
| modern exceptions I've seen are some Japanese keyboards.
| pkdpic wrote:
| I'm definitely a neophyte to mechanical keyboard culture but its
| pretty obvious that its being co-opted by and sold to normies.
|
| I've observed that its the mechanical keyboard gamer scenes
| fault.
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| I remember it being the other way around -- there was a class
| of programmers that loved the old buckling-spring IBM
| mechanical keyboards, then about 15 years ago Das Keyboard
| started making a new stuff. It became a much more common
| shortly after when the patents on mechanical key-switches
| expired; Cherry and Gateron made their switches widely
| available and OEMs took it to the "wide niche" that it is
| today.
| sogen wrote:
| Avoid installing their Logi Options software. It installs as root
| on OSX and is a nightmare to uninstall.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| In my experience their software in general is terrible. For a
| while I had the Logitech G Hub software installed for
| configuring a G604 Lightspeed mouse, and it would randomly
| start eating 100% of a core for indefinite periods while
| sitting in the background for no apparent reason. Saw this
| behavior under both macOS and Windows.
|
| Their hardware is decent but they gotta ditch the crappy lowest
| bidder offshore contractor software. It's garbage.
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| > Their hardware is decent but they gotta ditch the crappy
| lowest bidder offshore contractor software. It's garbage.
|
| Completely agree. The difference in quality between hardware
| and software is really noticeable.
| smiley1437 wrote:
| Note that this appears to use the Logi Bolt receiver, not the
| typical Unifying receiver - so you might end up with 2 dongles (a
| unifying and a bolt)
|
| Be aware that Logitech now has 3 wireless technologies:
|
| Unifying - the original 2.4 wireless, supports up to 6 devices.
| Symbol - Orange square with black or white six-pointed snowflake
|
| Logi Bolt - the new encrypted version of their unifying
| controller, also supports up to 6 devices, uses Bluetooth Low
| Energy and FIPS. It is a new dongle. Symbol - Yellow hexagon with
| black bolt
|
| LightSpeed Wireless - high performance low latency wireless for
| gaming, supports only one device per dongle, uses much more
| energy.
|
| Available USB ports on laptops can become an issue if you mix
| them, happened to me!
| dawnerd wrote:
| I really wish their LightSpeed devices also supported
| bluetooth. If I take my mouse with me on the road it's really
| annoying having to bring a dongle and the adapter.
| treyfitty wrote:
| I suppose the only thing that makes this a better proposition is
| Logitechs Flow software, which allows you to use the same
| keyboard/mouse across multiple devices on your network, without
| having to manually switch.
|
| Otherwise, keychron's low-profile keyboards are a better value.
| core-utility wrote:
| Keychron has been amazing, 0 issues for me. Flow looks cool but
| I would question reliability.
| aceazzameen wrote:
| Or there's Microsoft's Mouse Without Borders, which can be used
| with any brand mouse/keyboard. I use it all the time.
|
| https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/mouse-...
| treyfitty wrote:
| Right, but that's only for Windows. Logitech Flow supports
| Mac + Windows.
| gigaflop wrote:
| I have one of their MX Vertical mice connected to my phone,
| laptop, and desktop, and can switch between the pairings with
| the hardware button on the bottom. If I was traveling a lot,
| I'd probably consider this as a good option to have a compact-
| but-comfortable keyboard.
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| > the only thing that makes this a better proposition is
| Logitechs Flow software
|
| Not sure if you've tried Flow but personally, in my experience
| of using it (on Mac), I would not recommend it at all.
|
| Their hardware is very good (I have an MX Keys keyboard and MX
| Master 3 mouse) but the software is buggy and doesn't live up
| to its marketing promises; especially Flow. To the degree that
| it somewhat devalues the otherwise well built hardware devices.
|
| Flow is not very reliable for me. It wouldn't be quite so bad
| but Logitech have a very strange design flaw in their Flow
| implementation which compounds the software issues; the MX Keys
| keyboard has 3x dedicated device buttons to allow you to
| manually switch between host computers, but this does not sync
| with the mouse - which has its own button on the underside.
|
| When you switch between computers via software using Flow (when
| it works), it moves both mouse and keyboard at the same time.
| But when Flow flakes out, as it often does, you have to revert
| back to using the dedicated button on the keyboard AND turn
| your mouse _upside down_ and click the switch button multiple
| times to also switch it to the new host.
|
| It seems to be madness that they have designed a matching pair
| of keyboard and mouse, with this advertised "multiple host"
| capability, and yet the very obvious feature of switching both
| keyboard AND mouse together, to the same host via the dedicated
| keyboard keys is absent.
|
| Here's a 2 year old Logitech forum post about this issue with
| 674 upvotes: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-
| us/community/posts/3600507556...
|
| And another 2 year old post with 275 votes:
| https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/3600493206...
|
| Logitech say its "difficult to implement" and yet there are a
| number of workarounds on GitHub that people have come up with
| to fix this behaviour. Knowing that the Flow software has full
| control over which host the keyboard and mouse are assigned to,
| having the software/driver automatically switch both devices
| when the dedicated button is pressed on the keyboard seems like
| it should not be difficult to implement.
|
| I'm now using macOS' new Universal Control feature instead
| which is a good reliable implementation of what Flow tried to
| achieve. Switching between my Macs has been 100% reliable since
| using Universal Control. The downside is the special functions
| of the MX Master mouse do not carry over to the second Mac
| (scroll wheel behaviour is different and difficult to control,
| dedicated buttons don't work). So there are a different set of
| compromises. I now plan to look at hacking up something that
| uses a combination of Universal Control and some custom
| messages sent to the keyboard/mouse to have them switch hosts
| based on when Universal Control switches hosts.
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| I came here saying that I would never again use software for a
| peripheral (keyboard, mouse) to control color, etc.. that must
| be kept running to maintain settings. I'm looking at you Razor
| Mouse. It's one thing to have custom software to set settings
| but the idea that the peripheral can't maintain those settings
| unless the software is kept running is ridiculous to me. My
| GMMK keyboard, for instance, it's a bit awkward but you don't
| need custom software to control color or custom functions, you
| can switch most of those using the keyboard itself or run
| software, set your settings, then exit the software and
| maintain your settings.
| behnamoh wrote:
| In my experience, Logi Flow has been somewhat wonky. I think a
| better, more stable option is to use a KVM.
| professor_v wrote:
| Keychron has too high latency for me, I'm hoping this has a
| more acceptable input lag.
| diffeomorphism wrote:
| > Logitechs Flow software
|
| How does it compare to Synergy or Mouse without borders?
|
| https://symless.com/synergy
|
| https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/garage/wall-of-fame/mouse-wi...
| ProtoMathics wrote:
| there is subtle difference in situation you both describing,
| but that subtle difference can be HUGE thing.
|
| MX series can be connected to multiple devices, most
| bluetooth accessories cant, still in BT5 world, but thats how
| it is.
|
| so. even if software is absolutely same, you get better
| experience with MX keyboards.. because you dont have to pair
| it everytime you take your keyboard to work etc. which most
| keyboards fail to do. which is ridiculous. also with mx
| keyboard you can use it on your ipad, pc,.... and there is
| button or key shortcut(depends on model) which helps you to
| switch to that other device.
|
| so you can have ipad + desktop in front of you and when you
| are writing on pc and your ipad email notification goes on,
| you just press keyboard shorcut and you can start typing on
| your ipad.
|
| sorry for this convoluted explanation, but in real use it
| removes so many annoyances that it is worth mentioning.
|
| mx series of products is best product line from all
| manufacturers of this kind of accessory combined and i can
| tell you i had a looooot of wireless keyboards in my life. i
| use ipad more that 10 years and had almost always keyboard
| connected. first ipad was trash as..
| ProtoMathics wrote:
| and this switching works even if you do not use ANY
| software.
| diffeomorphism wrote:
| Yes, that is multi-device bluetooth. Neat and definitely
| better implemented than in some cheaper devices. However,
| the question was specifically about the flow software.
| falcolas wrote:
| Personally I prefer Synergy. Paid for it a decade or more
| ago, and it works well.
| lvass wrote:
| Do we have any users here who have to type important passwords,
| and still own wireless keyboards? What convinced you this is
| safe?
| krallja wrote:
| I use a wired keyboard for latency, FileVault, and reliability
| reasons. I'm not concerned about the security.
|
| If someone is close enough to sniff BT packets, they can also
| do acoustic analysis of your typing, or a TEMPEST attack on the
| (plaintext!) USB protocol. BT can have about the same level of
| encryption as TLS. https://duo.com/decipher/understanding-
| bluetooth-security
| lvass wrote:
| >close enough to sniff BT packets, they can also do acoustic
| analysis of your typing, or a TEMPEST attack
|
| Evidence needed, those look multiple orders of magnitude
| harder.
|
| >BT can have about the same level of encryption as TLS
|
| But does your keyboard always have it, even in
| bootloader/initrd? What about the far more common wireless
| USB dongles?
| samrocksc wrote:
| Logitech makes better mice than keyboards ;oP, upgrade the MX
| ergo to USB-C and better BT plz.
| ourmandave wrote:
| Some of the models on their site are wearing beanies. Must be
| freezing in their hipster work studios.
|
| Anyway, sadly you can't actually buy an orange Logitech beanie.
| Only grey and navy.
|
| https://logitechvcgear.merchorders.com/retail_slash_employee...
| jwr wrote:
| I'll stick to my UHK (Ultimate Hacking Keyboard), thank you. How
| is this even remotely interesting? This isn't even a split
| keyboard.
| mzs wrote:
| What a terrible page, what is the N-key rollover?
| ghostly_s wrote:
| Scrolled through this page on mobile and there's not a single
| clear picture of the product.
| sizzle wrote:
| How much better is this than the MX Keys I have and love using? I
| think the shallow buttons on the MX keys leads to repetitive
| strain in wrist area, will mechanical keys help me push down with
| less force than the MX keys and possibly alleviate some of this
| pain?
| leokennis wrote:
| Apart from then not offering USB-C dongles at all (not even as
| separate purchase) I love my Logitech mouse and keyboard to death
| (K850 set).
|
| Pop in some rechargeable batteries and basically you're set for a
| year. They always work, never fail, sturdy build, decent
| software, no nonsens look and no gimmicks.
| raydev wrote:
| Happy to see more mechanical keyboards with a low profile. I dont
| understand how enthusiasts use the typical wrist-bending tall
| keyboards all day long.
| hammerbrostime wrote:
| As someone who spends several hours a week livestreaming, I
| really appreciate the mushy-applesauce-inspired-super-quiet keys
| that Logitech provides - you can't hear them over the mic.
| activitypea wrote:
| I hope they make an MX Split keyboard that doesn't cost an arm
| and a leg
| ktross wrote:
| Logitech is no longer the great company it used to be, so I have
| decided to no longer purchase their products. I purchased a G Pro
| X Wireless Headset less than 2 years ago, and I'm already on my
| second warrranty replacement (3 total headsets.) Multiple parts
| on it seem designed to fail, and all of mine have failed in the
| same way. They use laughably small screws to connect the band to
| the arms that hold the earcups and they just snap after a few
| months. It's very sad to see so much e-waste created just to
| increase profits by a few cents per unit.
|
| I've been using wired mechanical keyboards for about 15 years so
| I can't recommend a wireless model, but Ducky makes great,
| reliable, entry-level mechanical keyboards. I've mostly used
| Ducky and I've never had one of their keyboards fail in any way.
| Glorious also makes great keyboards, but based on my perception
| of the build quality, I have a feeling their cheaper keyboards
| might not last as long. I'm currently using a Glorious GMMK Pro
| and it feels very solid.
| teschty wrote:
| Very weird, I've had the opposite experience. I used to think
| their hardware products were complete crap, but now I own a G
| Pro mouse, keyboard, and headset from them (they've definitely
| stepped it up in the design game at the very least.)
|
| Changed my headset to the G Pro X Wireless after having broken
| 2 SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless headsets, which for some
| reason decided to use a single plastic piece for the hinge to
| hold the earcups on (on a $350 headset!).
| ktross wrote:
| The G Pro X Wireless felt awesome and first and seemed like a
| great headset, but my mind changed when I ran into issues and
| saw how many others had issues as well. If they made it a bit
| more durable I would say it would be almost perfect.
|
| I had an SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless as well before the
| Logitech one, and I ran into the same issue! Huge
| disappointment after having loved the SteelSeries Siberia
| wired headset
| jjcm wrote:
| I have a love/hate relationship with the G Pro X Wireless.
| I've bought 6 of them so far, 3 of which have died in some
| way (in all cases, the right or left click has stopped
| functioning). They're fantastic in every other way - I love
| the feel, the response time is great, the weight is great.
| I'll continue buying them for those reasons, at least until a
| competitor has all of the above plus my following wishlist:
|
| Better build quality (a mouse should last more than 1-2
| years, which is the average life I get out of them).
|
| USB-C receiver. I hate having to use a dongle just for the
| USB-A receiver.
|
| Better drivers. GHub is pretty bloaty.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| It feels weird to me, to judge a keyboard company by their
| headset. Those have always had fragile plastic hinges with the
| earcups falling off, that is not a new development. Their mice
| and keyboards are pretty good, and the G Pro Wireless is one of
| the best in the game right now.
| ktross wrote:
| They're mostly a computer peripheral company. They've always
| made a ton of products like keyboards, mice, webcams,
| speakers, headsets, microphones, game controllers, etc. I've
| only experienced issues with fragile plastic parts in sub $80
| headsets. You definitely shouldn't be seeing such a critical
| design flaw on a $200 headset.
|
| The quality of their products used to be pretty good, but
| it's becomming obvious that they're starting to cut too many
| corners to reduce costs. I have an old pair of logitech
| speakers that have lasted me well over 10 years.
|
| The G Pro Wireless has some major issues as well. They build
| up static electricity during use and this causes a single
| click to register as multiple clicks, and causes a continuous
| click to stop registering when you're holding the button
| down. This is terrible for a gaming mouse. I switched to a
| Razer Viper Ultimate and haven't had any issues.
| Night_Thastus wrote:
| Are you sure the issue is static electricity? Despite being
| essentially some of the best mice on the market, the
| switches they use are a bit sub-standard. Over time, they
| tend to develop double-click issues. (Where a single click
| registers as two)
|
| I had a G305 that did this, and given the low price of the
| mouse I gave up going through the work to desolder and
| replace the switches.
| ktross wrote:
| I'm not 100% positive, but it seems to be. Blowing into
| the front of the mouse would fix it for a few minutes. I
| saw a bunch of threads about it the last time I looked
| into it.
|
| If I recall correctly, there were firmware updates that
| claimed to fix the same or similar issues, but those had
| no effect for me.
| NegativeLatency wrote:
| I use their thumb track balls and this is a regular
| failure mode for me
| ProtoMathics wrote:
| JBL bluetooth headphones have "firmware feature" which lowers
| volume of left earpiece slowly over time. Happened on multiple
| different products, bought by schoolmates of mine and also on 3
| different units of one product for me.
|
| Pioneer SE-M531, M521 .... have similar problem with screws as
| you state.
|
| logitech - i absolutely LOVE MX series of products they are
| innovative and provide absolutelly best functionality, keys
| look nice not really my style but they look nice as a unit.
|
| so i am sad to see they jumped on mechanical keyboard
| bandwagon, i hate mechanical keyboards with all my life. always
| clicking, long travel, slow typing....
| 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
| long travel, slow? this keyboard looks low profile. probably
| don't have to press the keys as far. and the amount of force
| required to activate the key is less than non mechanical
| iirc. they usually tell you how many grams of force are
| needed
| twblalock wrote:
| I've never seen a "gaming" headset that is any good.
|
| You will always be better off buying headsets from companies
| that focus on headsets and headphones, rather than from
| companies that see headsets as a cheap filler item to sell to
| people who bought their mice and keyboards and want the blinky
| lights to sync up.
| ktross wrote:
| The benefit of a gaming headset over bluetooth is reduced
| latency. Unless things have changed recently, the difference
| is very noticable.
|
| The HyperX Cloud (wired) is actually a pretty good headset.
| AdrianB1 wrote:
| It's a hit or miss. They have the fantastic MX Master line of
| mouse products, for example, or some very good webcams, but not
| everything is so great, like your headsets. I prefer to check
| the product more than the company.
| Havoc wrote:
| Latest Logitech mouse I got is giving me issues less than a
| month in. Pretty grim
| antisthenes wrote:
| Is Logitech even a good value buy these days? Feels like they are
| just pumping out the most generic chinese-made crap with their
| logo/brand and riding their old reputation rather than doing
| anything innovative.
|
| This keyboard is a prime example.
|
| Too late. (Mechanical keyboard hype started 10-12 years ago)
|
| Too expensive. (My first mechanical KB was $30. Yes, that's
| right. If I didn't spill stuff on it, it would still be working.
| Still hard to justify paying more than $100 for a single
| peripheral).
|
| Too Meh. (styling looks pretty generic and not really unique
| enough to tickle the novelty factor for the enthusiasts.)
|
| Seriously though, I can't name a single reason this is better
| than any other mechanical KB in the market.
| no-reply wrote:
| G815 and G915 already exist. Idk why they needed a refresh
| without a volume scroll and some hotkeys. Or the rgb.
| whalesalad wrote:
| I have a lot of MX gear, it's good stuff. After transitioning
| towards ergo products though I can't imagine going back to a
| vanilla keyboard.
|
| I am using a K860 now and really like it a lot, minus the tenkey
| form factor. Would love to see a shallow (yet tactile/clicky)
| keyboard in the spirit of ~2015 Macbook Pro but in an ergonomic
| layout w/o tenkey. I have smaller hands and the full travel of
| cherry switches ends up being cumbersome.
|
| Anyone know if this holy grail kb exists?
| jeffbr13 wrote:
| I tracked down a good condition 2009-2010 vintage A1242
| aluminium ten-keyless Apple Keyboard[1] on ebay for PS54 last
| year for exactly that feeling. Supposedly they came with iMacs
| for just a year or so before they were discontinued. My first-
| gen Magic Trackpad fits perfectly where the numpad would be. My
| only complaint is I can't position the trackpad below the
| spacebar like on a MacBook so have to move my hands from the
| home row, but that's because the keyboard and trackpad both
| have a slant to them.
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_keyboards#Aluminum_w/o
| _N...)
| ardit33 wrote:
| I tried several higher end keyboards, and build 2 of them myself.
| (custom keycaps and all), but the average enthusiast mech.
| keyboard is just not usable for programming. most of them are
| high profile, while they are great for typing, they are terrible
| at activities where you have to navigate around in a speedy way
| (something that you do a lot during programming).
|
| A low profile keyboard is a must, and the custom scene just
| doesn't have that many options for it, and you have to go
| commercial.
|
| I have the G915 TKL Clicky version and it is a great keyboard. It
| is fast, low profile, and the switches feel great (Rebranded
| Khail Choc V1). The only problem is that it is a bit too noisy
| for office setting, and I can only use it at home. The G915
| Linear version is quiet, but it doesn't feel that great, and I
| didn't like it, so I sticked with the Clicky version.
|
| I am curious how this new attempt will feel and work out. I wish
| Logitech had a normal TKL layout for this, as the Mini feels a
| bit too cramped, while the full sized keyboard is just too large.
|
| The more options in the market, the better for all of us.
| Shadonototra wrote:
| Overpriced
|
| This shouldn't cost more than 60, and i'm being generous
| behnamoh wrote:
| I don't like the size of RIGHT-SHIFT on the mini model. When
| using Vim keys, I always find it more convenient to have a full-
| size SHIFT on both sides of the keyboard.
|
| This is not specific to Logitech, however. Many mechs do that for
| whatever reason.
| gigaflop wrote:
| It's about space savings. 1.75u width shift is considered a
| 'standard nonstandard' size for a compact keyboard, and it's
| generally worth the squeeze for the extra full-size 1u key.
| jazzythom wrote:
| Even though I use a mx master 2 I strongly dislike logitech
| product. It's tacky and minimum acceptable quality. Like Dell
| laptops. Opening the box you cant tell where the shipping
| packaging ends and the product begins.
| donatj wrote:
| I am not a gamer. The price gouging on things gamers enjoy is
| irritating. It happened with headphones, mice, and now keyboards.
| As "gamers" and particularly streamers grew as a market category,
| the prices for goods associated with them went insane. Even
| considering inflation, $150 for a Logitech keyboard is just nuts,
| even if it is mechanical.
| nix0n wrote:
| The counterpoint to this is laptops.
|
| If you're doing CAD and you need to get a laptop with a decent
| GPU in it, the enterprise version of that will cost you twice
| as much as the gaming version.
| bena wrote:
| Yeah, I just need something that will send the appropriate
| interrupt to the OS when I press a button.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| > Even considering inflation, $150 for a Logitech keyboard is
| insane, even if it is mechanical.
|
| I don't think you have been looking at Logitech keyboards for a
| while. Logitech Craft, which is a few years old retails at
| $169. MX Keys (which this is presumably the mechanical version
| of) costs $119
|
| I don't think the MX or the Craft series are aimed at gamers,
| but at office workers / typists.
|
| Logitech Gaming Keyboards, such as G413 TKL is $69 and the Pro
| K/DA, which is a collaboration with the League of Legends
| Band/mascots is $129
|
| $150 for a logitech keyboard is in no way high for the brand,
| or an attempt at taking advantage of gamers.
| ulkesh wrote:
| This is a pretty standard price for mechanical keyboards,
| whether pre-built or self-built. Hasn't really changed much in
| the last 5 or so years, that I am aware.
|
| I do agree, though, that they do take advantage via FOMO or
| perceived elitism, to a degree, with such pricing.
| 55555 wrote:
| Mechanical keyboards are actually expensive. I looked into
| making one once and it seemed that way, at least. I was shocked
| and dropped the project.
| emsixteen wrote:
| Mate, buying a mechanical keyboard a decade ago was nigh on
| impossible.
| BeFlatXIII wrote:
| Worse than the price inflation are all the RGB LEDs spammed
| over everything. Can't stand the gamer aesthetic taking over a
| market.
| gigaflop wrote:
| They don't tell you what the actual switches are on the page, but
| they look like Cherry's low-profile switches, which will
| hopefully mean that the keycaps can be customized.
|
| Taller keycaps like SA or MT3 profile might not be great with
| such short travel, but GMK/OEM/Cherry profile would probably be
| comfortable.
| [deleted]
| MivLives wrote:
| Could also be choc v2s, which I say is more likely, because
| otherwise they'd plaster cherry logos somewhere on the page.
|
| There's a bunch of compatibility problems with those. Cherry,
| GMK, and PBT MT3 all don't work according to a geekhack thread
| I see. Cherry's lp switch would probably have similar issues.
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| Per The Verge's review[0], they're using Kalih Choc V2
| switches.
|
| [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/24/23137797/logitech-mx-
| mast...
| gigaflop wrote:
| I didn't know about the choc V2s until today, thanks! A shame
| that there might be fitment issues.
| MivLives wrote:
| They're a bit on the obscure side, even among low profile
| keeb people. Very few boards support them (I think there's
| like a corne variant and maybe one or two other one offs),
| and they only come in 3 types.
| gigaflop wrote:
| I remember the 'US electrical socket with no ground pin'
| shaped stem form the V1s, and thought it was a shame that
| it was so hard to source keycaps for them. I never tried
| more than some loose switches I got on sale, since, you
| know. No broad support/interest, it seemed.
| MivLives wrote:
| Luckily that's increased. MBK keycaps came out and which
| were some of the first to not have flat tops. Then they
| put out a colored variant, and there's been a few other
| companies readying new ones (MCC, WRK(work louder), and
| chicago steno if you want something really fancy).
| Nothing like mx mount switches though, with a few dozen
| group buys running at once but it's getting easier to
| find good stuff.
| falcolas wrote:
| They do, expand the specs section and scroll down. "Graphite MX
| Mechanical", whatever those are behind the brand.
| post_break wrote:
| If you're in the market the keychron brand has similar builds
| with hot swappable switches. I'm rocking a K6 with holy panda
| switches and absolutely love the buttery feel.
| pqdbr wrote:
| I also went with keychron a year ago and I'm very pleased. My
| only complaint is that battery is shitty if you use the
| wireless mode with the led backlight on all the time (it will
| last about 4-5 days max).
| jansan wrote:
| We have a K2 and Q1 (more than 1.5kg!), both will yellow
| Gaterons, and they are just so great to work with. I don't know
| what Logitech's marketing was thinking, they seem to have
| stripped all that is fun about mechnical keyboards from the
| product and created something exceptionally lame.
| steffanwilliams wrote:
| It doesn't seem to have the US layout available in the UK, which
| is always a shame to see! I'm too used to the US layout to
| switch.
| deanc wrote:
| I will never buy another Logitech peripheral after they shipped
| the MX Master 3 mouse for mac with a scrollwheel that was
| fundamentally broken [1]. There's been zero recognition from
| Logitech about this issue, and everyone who's dealt with support
| has got the same shit about reinstalling drivers etc.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrTx6DmRZ5o
| metaphor wrote:
| > _Compatibility: Logi Bolt USB Receiver[^11]_
|
| > _[^11] Not compatible with Logitech Unifying USB Receiver
| technology_
|
| So you'll have to throw away your existing MX Anywhere 3 and
| repurchase this seemingly vaporware "for Business" variant[1] if
| you want a single transceiver for mouse+keyboard? Hmm...
|
| [1] https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-
| anywhere-3-f...
| tmottabr wrote:
| I bet this is why the release a MX Master 3S as an minor update
| to the previous MX Master 3.. that only have bolt option..
|
| I still have an MX Master 2 and i am considering getting this
| as a bundle, MX Master 3S and MX Mechanical..
|
| For keyboard i currently have their G512 gamer and it bother me
| that it use a separated software from the MX Master 2, the
| keyboard use the Logitech G Hub while the mouse use the
| Logitech Options..
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| The decision to go from Unifying to Bolt is mystifying to me,
| since there's seemingly no user-facing benefit. It makes
| upgrading less enticing -- they should have either rolled out a
| new set of peripherals that all supported Bolt at the same
| time, or they should have rolled out an interim generation that
| supported both Bolt and Unifying.
| FredPret wrote:
| Also, no USB-C? I now need to plug my Unifying Receivers into
| a dongle to go into my M1 machine. Yuck.
| AdrianB1 wrote:
| At first look, the Bolt stuff is supposed to be more secure,
| with better encryption or the data transferred and maybe with
| narrower band to allow more concurrent users in high density
| offices. I don't know how much it is correct and how much it
| is marketing, this is what I read.
| tmottabr wrote:
| The Unifying used same frequency as BT but a diferent
| protocol.. The Bolt is basically BT 5.0 Low Power..
| fuzzy2 wrote:
| Isn't the Unifying encryption broken beyond recovery or
| something? Either way, more secure connections for something
| as critical as input data are very welcome IMHO.
|
| That being said, for office work I'm satisfied with
| Bluetooth. No extra dongles is a huge plus, too.
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| Don't see the point of this product, this fits squarely in the
| "too little, too late" category. $150-200 buys you something that
| has quality switches, probably will have socketed switches (so
| swapping switches, modifying them, etc, won't require
| de/resoldering them), comes with at least double-shot PBT keycaps
| (or better), will have an actually decent backplate, and nowadays
| a lot of keyboards are coming with sound dampening internally
| preinstalled, and sometimes even pre-lubed.
|
| What did Logitech do here? Kalih Choc V2s (and Logitech doesn't
| disclose this on their website). They aren't the worst switches,
| but they're not MX pin compatible ( _ironic_ for a keyboard named
| MX), which also means not a lot of options for keycaps when these
| start wearing after only 2-3 years of ownership (Chocs don 't use
| MX stems, and I can already tell those look like really low grade
| caps), which means a keycap replacement will probably cost at
| least half as much as the keyboard (rare stem types aren't cheap
| and don't have many options). Side profile photos make it look
| like it doesn't even have a real plate, and it is so thin that it
| will flex, thus damaging switches or breaking connections. It is
| an exceptionally thin build, so they're using a lithium cell that
| isn't easy to replace.
|
| Like, I'm sorry, but this entire thing looks like its design to
| fail in 2-3 years. You buy mechanical keyboards to use for a
| decade, because you actually want something halfway decent to
| type on. $150-200 puts you into the high end of the hobby. If I
| wanted a keyboard to fail in 2-3 years, but still be mechanical
| and cut _all_ the corners like Logitech seems to have, China has
| cranked out some really cheap bangers that have wireless and all
| the new modern wireless features in the $50 range, or even less
| if you 're going wired (since this is a desktop keyboard,
| wireless is often an actually unwanted misfeature).
|
| I'd skip the entire thing and just buy a real keyboard from a
| known quality vendor. Literally the price is what made this be
| instantly DOA, they could have made an argument for $100 to go
| after the non-knowledgeable segment of the market and probably
| have gotten away with it.
|
| I think Logitech got a case of sudden onset greed when they
| looked at stuff Keychron, Nuphy, or even GMMK have been cranking
| out, and thought they could get in on it at a higher price point,
| but not willing to bring the build or parts quality.
|
| Do not buy this thing, you will regret it.
|
| Edit: So I read through some of the sibling comments. Nice to see
| a lot of people also jumping up Logitech's ass over this.
|
| I don't understand the argument of "but what about my
| parents/grandparents in their 50s and 60s". They don't buy
| mechanical keyboards, they don't care about the fancy feature set
| in some Bluetooth keyboards, and they will find it absolutely
| absurd somebody paid over $100 for a keyboard.
|
| They will buy a Logitech, and it'll be that really shitty one on
| the bottom shelf at Walmart, or they will search on Amazon for
| keyboards and sort by price and buy one of the cheaper ones and
| it will be some no-name Chinese brand.
|
| Unless they're complete absolute unrepentant nerds like we are,
| the average person on earth, of any possible demographic, is not
| going to care about a $150 keyboard. Logitech's brand recognition
| can't save them, it will not push crapware.
| coastflow wrote:
| The Apple keyboard layout (with Cmd and Opt keys) is a feature
| that other commenters on this thread haven't yet discussed.
|
| The major producers of keyboards with the Apple layout include
| "Keychron" and "Royal Kludge," but the brands aren't well-known
| to most consumers in contrast to Logitech. Each brand also has
| some reports of minor problems with build quality from forum
| discussions on Reddit, though it remains to be seen if the
| Logitech keyboard will be much better.
|
| You could use a Windows-first mechanical keyboard for MacOS, but
| the layout is slightly different (the Windows key as Cmd and the
| Alt key as Option are in different positions than on a Mac-first
| keyboard). Fixes to remap the keys (example solution:
| https://superuser.com/questions/158561/how-can-i-remap-windo...)
| can cause problems for users who work with virtual Windows
| machines after swapping the keys.
| TAKEMYMONEY wrote:
| OSX is 15% market share? Why would they make an entirely
| separate version on a _new_ line of products just to cater to
| that, considering the fix you mentioned works for, well anyone
| not using VMs. (Typed this on a Ducky remapped for OSX)
| ceeplusplus wrote:
| It's certainly not 15% marketshare among premium corporate
| users. I bet if you condition on the company spending at
| least $700/unit on laptops for their employees, Apple's
| marketshare is more like 70%.
| TAKEMYMONEY wrote:
| And they're buying the shitty Apple keyboards to go along
| with them. It's not realistic for Logitech to target the
| "we screwed up where the modifier keys are" aka "Apple
| layout" market on their _first_ launch.
| coastflow wrote:
| Targeting Apple users is effectively part of what they
| are doing with their launch. From the images in the
| submitted link, the keys also have labels for the Apple
| modifier keys in their default positions (that is, with
| Cmd next to the space bar).
| TAKEMYMONEY wrote:
| Interesting, I wonder if it requires remapping or if the
| Logitech software does it for you? Previously they
| released a special layout just for OSX with "MX Keys for
| Mac" (not mechanical)
|
| https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/keyboards/mx-
| keys-ma...
| robotburrito wrote:
| The Apple keyboards in my experience are pretty nice. I
| often use it as it is easier on my fingers and causes
| less joint pain.
| TAKEMYMONEY wrote:
| Vs mechanical? Apples and oranges, not totally relevant
| to the GP. (Prefer my Magic A1843 no other non-mechs
| though I guess).
| meragrin_ wrote:
| > condition on the company spending at least $700/unit on
| laptops for their employees
|
| Did you miss a digit there? Seems like a very low bar.
| Every non-tech company I am aware of spends well more than
| that on laptops for very basic computer uses.
|
| Where I work, Apple is a choice, but very few people have
| them. The only people I know who go for them are designers.
| ceeplusplus wrote:
| I've worked in a couple non-tech places, usually either
| everyone has crappy $300 bargain bin laptops, if the
| laptop is just used for a frontdesk role or for accessing
| some websites, or everyone has something similar to an
| Inspiron or IdeaPad with an i5 caliber CPU (almost surely
| less than $700 looking at current prices). In the latter
| case usually the executives/managers have Macbooks.
|
| I know both my GP doctor (hospital) and specialty doctor
| (private practice) use bog standard midrange Windows
| laptops that can't possibly cost more than $700. Once you
| get past the $700 mark you're entering premium territory
| like XPS/Spectre/ThinkPad.
| Buxato wrote:
| Never I will buy again Logitech crappy hardware. Also we should
| avoid buying wireless stuff unless necessary imo.
| kasperni wrote:
| Worth pointing out they also released the new MX Master 3S [1]
| today.
|
| [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/05/logitech-mx-
| master-3...
| sto_hristo wrote:
| I have the MX Master 3 and it's so close to perfection:
|
| 1) put the device swap button on easily accessible place along
| with the device led indicator (perhaps incorporated in the
| battery led indicator); 2) make it able to work directly via
| usb cable for redundancy.
|
| That is all.
| akvadrako wrote:
| The 3S is supposed to have more quiet clicks, which I
| consider another improvement.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| I wished that when it is unnotched, scrolling would behave
| like scrolling on a trackpad. It still jumps lines, instead
| of smoothly moving. The sideway scrolling is awful. No idea
| how far to scroll before something starts to move.
|
| The mouse is definitely nice to hold, but trackpads still
| provide a much better scrolling experience. Excel with large
| row-height is near impossible to navigate without a touch pad
| in my opinion (and whoever at Microsoft thought it was a good
| idea to only be able to scroll in whole cells should never
| work in usability again)
| trzeci wrote:
| Hoped for MX Master 4 to be honest
| ninjin wrote:
| Well, I sure hope it is better than the MX Master 3. For my
| hands the original - discontinued - MX Master is _still_ the
| best fit and the MX Master 3 is too small. However, my supply
| of old MX Masters has started to break down on me at this point
| and I am growing increasingly worried what the replacement
| could be.
| neogodless wrote:
| I'm with you. I loved the original, and tried to go straight
| to the MX Master 3, but it was too narrow. Ended up getting
| an MX Master 2S, and the size is comparable to the first, and
| I love it. This 3S keeps the narrower body shape of the 3, so
| it won't be an option for me.
| ninjin wrote:
| Thank you, I will see if I can find one to try out. The MX
| Vertical has felt pretty nice in my hands too whenever I
| tried it at a store, but I can not buy a mouse with such an
| absolutely awful scroll wheel.
| mftb wrote:
| I use a k845[0]. Excellent keyboard. Inexpensive.
|
| [0]https://www.logitech.com/en-
| us/products/keyboards/k845-mecha...
| dragosmocrii wrote:
| Had one for 3 years, and then it started chattering
| unfortunately
| jasonjmcghee wrote:
| I bought an F97 when it was released, and it's by far the best
| keyboard I've ever used.
| https://iqunix.store/collections/f97-series/products/f97-hit...
|
| It's bluetooth (up to 3 devices, which you can change between
| with a key stroke), and also supports wireless dongle or wired
| (usb-c)
|
| Hot swappable, 260 day battery life...
|
| The key caps are PBT- they feel so much better than any keys I've
| used.
|
| I have always used cherry blue, but chose pink on this one and
| it's silent.
|
| I love this thing.
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| numpad is a dealbreaker for me
|
| I never really realized how annoying it was to reach so far for
| my mouse until I got used to having a tenkeyless keyboard...now I
| won't use anything else.
|
| EDIT: nevermind, there is a tenkeyless version - i'm a dummy
| endor5639 wrote:
| This also comes in a tenkeyless mini variant
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| Ok, wow I'm dumb I didn't even try the dropdowns.
| rgoulter wrote:
| This is what's appealing with the complex layouts with < 50
| keys. It's satisfying to be able to drive a system with hands
| sticking close to home row, and rarely straying from the same
| column.
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