[HN Gopher] Kinopio
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Kinopio
Author : Crazyontap
Score : 179 points
Date : 2022-05-21 18:44 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (kinopio.club)
(TXT) w3m dump (kinopio.club)
| rnmp wrote:
| Really glad to see apps that help you explore your thoughts
| without feeling like productivity. This is a trend that will
| continue growing.
|
| Shameless plug on an app I'm working on: Bleep
| (https://www.bleep.is)
|
| Similar concept though different execution - customization +
| organization in a way that doesn't feel like a productivity tool
| which is what I think Kinopio is aiming towards. Definitely an
| inspiration for me!
| pketh wrote:
| ya somewhere along the way 'productivity' became 'enterprise',
| a depressing association to tools that are ideally supposed to
| help you build a better and funner life
| rambambram wrote:
| Nice examples! I miss a tooltip with text though, when I hover an
| icon.
| pketh wrote:
| Makes sense. At least in these early days I didn't want to rely
| on that as a crutch because Kinopio is designed to also work on
| mobile/touch devices which don't have hover
| ptato wrote:
| The design is really cool, but the tool is useless (to me) if I
| can't use it offline and store the data on my own hardware. For
| some reason everyone in this space is building cloud tools!
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| web apps can be totally offline via localstorage and some PWA
| APIs, it's just not widespreadely in use unfortunately
| ptato wrote:
| localStorage is nice but what I really love are files, in a
| folder, on my computer :D
| capableweb wrote:
| localStorage is in a file, on your computer ;) For
| Firefox/Linux, it's in webappsstore.sqlite (guessing the
| same file exists for Windows/macOS too but can't verify,
| and Chrome probably have something similar).
|
| Less fun: many "offline-capable" web apps that leverages
| PWA APIs/localStorage usually often allow you to
| download/upload a JSON representation of your data. I think
| I remember a graph drawing tool that allow you to do just
| that, but can't find a link to it right now.
| ptato wrote:
| It's a hidden, opaque file. As far as I can tell, my
| browser doesn't tell me what its path is on my file
| system. That path and the file format could change with a
| browser update. Again, localStorage is nice, but this
| whole setup isn't comparable to a .pdf or whatever that I
| can have on my desktop.
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| capableweb isn't telling you how capable the web has
| become, see https://googlechromelabs.github.io/text-
| editor/
|
| note: probably works best in chromium browsers
| jlund-molfese wrote:
| It wouldn't have been draw.io /
| https://app.diagrams.net/, would it? I use that tool
| frequently, and loved that feature at a company where
| data couldn't be stored on external servers
| programmertote wrote:
| When I saw "Kinopio", I thought it's about Toad character (my
| favorite) in Super Mario universe. :) But I'm still pleasantly
| surprised to see a site that looks very unique.
|
| I wonder if the word "Kinopio" means something other than Toad in
| Japanese (maybe someone here who knows Japanese can answer?)
| [deleted]
| pketh wrote:
| Oh Hi, I'm the solo creator of Kinopio. Before this, I was the
| designer and co-creator of Glitch. I'll go through and answer
| things, feel free to AMA.
|
| If you're curious about me or about the process of
| designing/creating, these blog posts might be helpful:
|
| - https://pketh.org/how-kinopio-is-made.html
|
| - https://pketh.org/designing-for-thinking.html
|
| - https://pketh.org/the-first-four-years-of-glitch.html
| mertnesvat wrote:
| Congrats on the launch! I'm also a fan of glitch so congrats on
| that good job too.
|
| Just out of curiosity have been reading the engineering part
| and came across with below for not using websockets, confused
| because debounce and throttle is mainly used to avoid many
| updates over sockets so it's very well known problem for
| reactive programming
|
| ( https://pketh.org/how-kinopio-is-made.html )
|
| > You might be wondering, why don't you just update the
| database with websockets instead of relatively slow API
| requests?
|
| > The problem with saving data with websockets is that they're
| too fast. Authenticating that many messages per second and
| writing them to disk would be really inefficient. E.g. If
| you're moving a card from position x: 20 to x: 420, Kinopio
| will use websockets to broadcast many updates during the move:
| moving card x to 21, moving card x to 24, moving card x to
| 28... potentially hundreds of messages.
| pketh wrote:
| That's a good point, and I should look into that (it's been a
| while since I touched that part of the codebase). Off-hand my
| guess is that the other reason I handle api requests
| separately is because I can group multiple actions into a
| single request more easily, which isn't something I need to
| do with websocket streaming
| eps wrote:
| Glitch as in that dorky MMO game that resulted in Slack as a
| spin-off?
| zkid18 wrote:
| Hey! Congrats on the launch. Love the emerging thought and
| products around spatial web apps. Building the company in
| adjacent space - www.spatial.chat let's chat one day. feel free
| to dm in twi: @kidrulit
| stavros wrote:
| Is the name Greek?
| pketh wrote:
| In Japanese it means mushroom, not sure what else (the
| nintendo character toad is called kinopio-kun in japan). But
| really I just randomly stumbled on it years ago and it
| sounded unique and interesting to me
| rjh29 wrote:
| In Japanese mushroom is kinoko. kinopio is the name for
| Toad, probably comes from kinoko but doesn't mean anything
| by itself :)
| pketh wrote:
| oh wow, I guess I got some bad info - thanks for clearing
| that up for me!
| debo_ wrote:
| Bad information about mushrooms has been tripping us up
| for millenia.
| stavros wrote:
| Ahh, ok. It means "publish/share" in Greek.
| pketh wrote:
| That's a really awesome coincidence, maybe I'll tell
| people that that's what it means from now on :D
| gryson wrote:
| The Nintendo character Kinopio (Toad) is a play on words:
|
| kinoko (mushroom) +
|
| Pinocchio
| m12k wrote:
| I was just about to ask if it is pronounced like
| Pinocchio or kino-pio, guess that clears it up, thanks.
| togaen wrote:
| It's like a 90's fever dream.
| pketh wrote:
| hopefully someplace in that there's the dream of a better
| future
| hkon wrote:
| Looks cool. Would have been great back when I was creative.
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| I feel the same :( but creativity is a muscle !
| pketh wrote:
| for sure, it's definitely something that gets better with
| exercise
| pketh wrote:
| Maybe you can find your creativity again? I'm sure it never
| truly left
| leephillips wrote:
| Cool! I got a little lost because the usual browser navigations,
| forward and back, don't work (you "broke the back button").
| pketh wrote:
| Can you let me know more so I can repro? When you navigate from
| one kinopio page (called a space) to another, the back and
| forward buttons are supposed to do the right thing
| leephillips wrote:
| When I first visited, I clicked on an arrow that was on a
| card with the blue creature. I was taken to a kind of shop,
| that had a picture of plants at the bottom. From there there
| is no back navigation. This happened twice. But now when I
| visit the link in your submission, I'm taken directly to the
| shop, so I can't reproduce the problem.
| samlu wrote:
| Nothing beats Miro. Very sweet version though
| joshmarinacci wrote:
| I love these sorts of apps, but why are they always so slow? Even
| One Notes canvas mode was super slow.
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| yes scrolling is not as smooth as it should
| pketh wrote:
| browsers natively don't handle huge amounts of nodes as well as
| native or canvas implementations (which have other downsides).
| There's def more optimization I can do here though
| SamBam wrote:
| I created one note, deleted it, scrolled to the bottom, and tried
| to create another.
|
| From then on, everything was broken. Taps didn't create cards,
| scrolling became janky, sometimes I'd see the pink circle of a
| tap from something I did 10 seconds previous, and in the wrong
| place.
|
| The was repeatable when I exited the site and came back in.
|
| Android Pixel 6 Firefox 100.2.0
| pketh wrote:
| Hey SamBam,
|
| Ya Android is the only platform that currently has this bug
| (and a couple others). It's hard to diagnose, but I'm working
| on it. Sorry about that!
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| It'd be nice to have a Ionic app in the future!
| bowsamic wrote:
| It looks good but I'm probably not going to pay $8 a month to use
| it. Seeing that price puts me off of it immediately.
| pketh wrote:
| I'm still working on the pricing, any suggestions?
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| it'd be nice to offer a lifetime license in the future
| pketh wrote:
| I was actually considering that, the only product I know
| that does a lifetime plan is Roam though. Do you know of
| any others?
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| Intellij has (had?) a lifetime license. My POV is that
| having to pay monthly forever is a psychological burden.
| Your pricing seems reasonable to me but psychologicaly,
| some users could pay for a lifetime license and not for
| monthly one.
|
| Also you could propose a discount for the first year (a
| common practice)
| pketh wrote:
| > Also you could propose a discount for the first year
|
| Sounds like a good idea, I haven't really seen this
| myself though, could you point me to some examples?
| thomaspaillot wrote:
| Shameless plug, I work on an app called Stemic
| (https://stemic.app), a different take on the same problem than
| Kinopio is trying to solve.
| Intragalactic wrote:
| Woah. I love Kinopio! I've used a lot of different tools that are
| similar but something about the artstyle and the way it works is
| just so fun. Huge thumbs up.
|
| Is there a way to select multiple cards at once?
| WalterGR wrote:
| Are these graph UI elements reusable libraries, or do sites tend
| to roll their own?
| pketh wrote:
| In this case, everything is hand made (built in Vue and not
| much else)
|
| https://pketh.org/how-i-build.html
| thomaspaillot wrote:
| Shameless plug, I work on an app called Stemic, a different take
| on the same problem than Kinopio is trying to solve.
| https://stemic.app
| xhfloz wrote:
| One of my favorite people and websites out there :)
| pketh wrote:
| Thanks xhfloz, I love what you're doing with mmm.page too!
| drakonka wrote:
| This is so cool. I love the aesthetic and UX. The only thing is,
| I really wish I could self-host this. This seems like just the
| kind of thing I'd use for personal journaling brainstorms, and
| I'd really love to be able to just have that kind of data locally
| or self-hosted in my own location of choice.
| pketh wrote:
| I get that, it's hard to do self-hosting with a commercial
| product, but something I'll look into in the future for sure
| drakonka wrote:
| Yeah, I understand. I'd be happy to pay a higher one-time fee
| for the software, or still do it on a monthly charge basis (I
| understand there'd be enforcement difficulties with that
| though).
| spicyusername wrote:
| Infinite canvas apps are such a great way to brainstorm.
|
| Kinopio has a little more... personality, but I use an infinite
| canvas app called Concepts when brainstorming for work or play.
|
| https://concepts.app/
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| The graphical style is very cute :) I wish the internet was more
| like this (geocities like) BTW more websites should propose
| embedded music...
|
| edit DAMN THIS WEBSITE IT GETTING IT RIGHT!! we live in an absurd
| world where we have so many websites where people create or
| categorize content, and yet we can't live what other people
| live.. Most social networks are now tragically private by default
| (youtube playlists, etc) and we can't observe the feed of other
| users, not even super-users, only our shitty algo biased one. Yet
| here I can easily browse user contents and this is just much more
| useful than anything I could have came up myself, we users of the
| interweb are so deprived of authentic user content, I discovered
| in a few minutes of user's content browsing unique concepts, such
| as a mapping of the musical taste of someone, and so many other
| relatable, under-represented and heartwarming content!
|
| The world might not realize it, but this is what everyone needs.
|
| [0] https://kinopio.club/my-music-taste-4Z-ImVfoQ46poNtyLJSrQ
| pketh wrote:
| Thanks! I've been working hard on it. I got real tired of
| hearing how the web is lost, or how you can't have build a real
| business on the web, unless you sell data and/or have VC, and
| wanting to build the web app we deserve :)
|
| That's a really cool space btw, found some gems in there
| SemanticStrengh wrote:
| Thank you, that give me hope, this is very meaningful work :)
| very minor critic: the scrolling performance is not perfect
| on some boards (note that my 4K screen doewsn't help..)
|
| BTW your app just made me discover the movie "everything
| everywhere all at once" (yeah I must be living under a
| rock..) and I'm very hyped given the critics!
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(page generated 2022-05-21 23:00 UTC)