[HN Gopher] Pipewire to replace Pulseaudion on Ubuntu 22.10
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       Pipewire to replace Pulseaudion on Ubuntu 22.10
        
       Author : marcodiego
       Score  : 123 points
       Date   : 2022-05-21 13:56 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (discourse.ubuntu.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (discourse.ubuntu.com)
        
       | kabes wrote:
       | Hard to overstate what a blessing Wim Taymans has been for
       | dealing with AV in linux. Both gstreamer and pipewire have really
       | moved the bar. Qualitative engineered and a joy to work with.
        
       | nickserv wrote:
       | Great news! Had some problems with my Jabra USB sound card for
       | wireless headphones until I switched over to pipewire. Also
       | helped latency issues in OBS studio with my USB mic.
        
       | branon wrote:
       | Nice, I think this is great. Say what you will about Canonical
       | but they've got the market share and the cajones to switch up
       | defaults like this (Wayland, PipeWire) which will ultimately help
       | drive forward innovation and adoption.
        
         | Mikeb85 wrote:
         | Red Hat/Fedora were the ones to develop and push both Wayland
         | and Pipewire, and Fedora was the first distro to make both
         | default. Ubuntu is merely following their lead.
        
           | raverbashing wrote:
           | Interesting. Wasn't Pulseaudio from their favourite "move
           | fast and break things" developer?
           | 
           | Did they realize they needed a better solution? (though
           | Pipewire also deals with video)
           | 
           | (the point here is basically: why couldn't they fix
           | pulseaudio?)
        
             | kabes wrote:
             | You mean lennart poettering. Also the guy behind systemd.
             | He's a bit controversial since he goes against the Unix
             | philosophy and isn't very nuanced in expressing his
             | opinion, but all criticism is easy in hindsight. Pulse
             | audio was a great improvement over what was available at
             | the time and systemd is IMO better than any alternative it
             | replaced.
        
               | GekkePrutser wrote:
               | The dark patterns he used to push systemd through is
               | another reason. Making unrelated things dependent on it.
               | 
               | Personally I think the Linux world follows redhat way too
               | closely. Especially since it's really IBM now.
               | 
               | But I'm more open to pipewire because of this. Having
               | nice people behind it is important too IMO.
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | It's not that they follow, it's that RH does the heavy
               | lifting nobody else wants to do (since RH devs are paid).
        
               | Mikeb85 wrote:
               | Blame the other vendors for not doing as much as Red
               | Hat...
        
               | coryrc wrote:
               | Pulse audio was not an improvement in my experience.
               | Uninstalling it improved my system every time. I don't
               | use Bluetooth though.
        
               | egberts1 wrote:
               | Bookmarked for my edification.
        
             | dralley wrote:
             | Pipewire solves a bunch of problems at once
             | 
             | * low latency / pro audio
             | 
             | * secure video streaming and desktop capture under Wayland
             | 
             | * unification of Jack and PulseAudio ecosystems (Pipewire
             | implements both APIs)
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | > Really? Wasn't Pulseaudio from their favourite "move fast
             | and break things" developer?
             | 
             | Probably.
             | 
             | But the Pipewire developer is at Red Hat, and Fedora has it
             | as default.
        
               | krzyk wrote:
               | Lennart Poettering is also at RedHat.
        
               | Mikeb85 wrote:
               | Gotcha. I assume Poettering probably working mostly on
               | systemd no? That's what I associate him with anyway.
        
             | Beltalowda wrote:
             | Pipewire started as "Pulseaudio, but for video"; later
             | audio features were also added. It still uses the
             | Pulseaudio and JACK APIs and should be a "drop-in"
             | compatible replacement for both.
             | 
             | I don't think RedHat or anyone ever said that Pulseaudio is
             | perfect or covers all use cases.
        
           | dralley wrote:
           | Arch switched months ago, as well.
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | Ah nice. Not gonna lie, Arch isn't really on my radar. I
             | just know Wayland/Pipewire (among other things) were
             | developed by Red Hat employees.
        
               | aaomidi wrote:
               | I've been recommending endeavourOS to people recently.
               | Arch makes a lot of people go "wow" when they see how
               | nice the AUR is.
        
             | marcthe12 wrote:
             | Arch never switched since doesn't enforce the default sound
             | server. You can choose any unless dependencies force use to
             | use one. The official arch installer even prompts the user
             | to chose between pipewire and pulse on install.
        
               | sam_lowry_ wrote:
               | I use ALSA with dmix plugin on ArchLinux and can not be
               | happier. What's the use of a sound server for 99.99% of
               | us?
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | Bluetooth profiles. Routing specific applications to
               | their own outputs.
        
               | mlom wrote:
               | alsa alone works fine for me as well... a sound server
               | would make sense to me if i did a lot of audio processing
               | using a bunch of different applications, but how many
               | people really do that anyway as opposed to just working
               | in some overengineered DAW?
        
               | tadfisher wrote:
               | Per-application volume, Bluetooth device support with
               | automatic profile switching, headphone jack detection,
               | and probably 5 other things I use daily but don't know
               | about.
        
         | LambdaComplex wrote:
         | > which will ultimately help drive forward innovation and
         | adoption
         | 
         | Because that worked out so well for Mir and Upstart, right?
        
       | throwawaymanbot wrote:
        
       | pawelduda wrote:
       | Pipewire finally fixed previously unfixable audio delay buildup
       | over bluetooth when the system was under load. I've been using it
       | for over 2 years and did not experience any drawbacks.
        
         | eliaspro wrote:
         | I seem to be an exception. Although I love Pipewire for doing a
         | lot of things right and finally solving a lot of issues that
         | plagued Linux' multimedia stack in the past, I haven't had any
         | major issues with PA for at least 10 years, while now that I
         | switched to Pipewire a while ago I have occasional stuttering
         | Bluetooth audio once again.
        
       | staticassertion wrote:
       | Is there a good document comparing the two?
        
         | e12e wrote:
         | Not a comparison, but an overview, and an update:
         | 
         | https://lwn.net/Articles/847412/
         | 
         | https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2022/03/08/pipe...
        
         | dralley wrote:
         | The FAQ is pretty good, though not a deep technical document
         | 
         | https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pipewire/pipewire/-/wikis/FAQ
        
           | dougmsmith wrote:
           | It's kind of sad how Gitlab requires JS to view wiki content.
           | Granted, their hiring strategy is a race to the bottom so not
           | surprised.
           | 
           | The big difference is CPU usage. Any audio output seems to
           | result in PulseAudio using 10%+ CPU. Poettering is a fraud
           | who literally hates polar bears.
        
         | rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
         | I'm looking for this too(random forum posts and reddit comments
         | don't count), wasn't even aware there was an alternative for
         | pulseaudio...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tmalsburg2 wrote:
       | Doesn't support audio output to dlna devices on the network.
       | Seems I will be stuck with pulsesaudio for now.
        
       | brink wrote:
       | That's fantastic! I swapped out pulseaudio for pipewire on my
       | Arch installation and it immediately fixed all of my bluetooth
       | issues. Everything just worked.
        
       | alaricus wrote:
       | This is really great news. Pipewire made great progress in the
       | last few years. It solves a lot of problems I had with Bluetooth
       | headsets in PulseAudio.
        
         | CoastalCoder wrote:
         | I'm using Pop!_OS 22.04, and I still have serious issues with
         | bluetooth quality. At least for my setup: laptop <--> AirPods.
         | 
         | AFAIK this version of Pop!_OS is using pipewire, so I wonder if
         | there's still more work to be done?
        
           | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
           | There has been a war raging over at r/pop_os over the quality
           | of the 22.04 release.
        
         | Kudos wrote:
         | Anecdotally, Bluetooth audio is now better for me than on my
         | Windows (same hardware) and Mac devices. From poor quality to
         | higher latency, Pipewire's made quality at least as good, and
         | latency the best of the three OSes.
        
           | johnday wrote:
           | Seconding this. On my c.2020 high-end laptop running Win11,
           | from switching on my BT headphones to hearing audio through
           | them takes around 8 seconds and sometimes requires manual
           | intervention. On my c.2013 laptop running Arch+PW, 3 seconds.
        
           | alaricus wrote:
           | This is also my experience. Pipewire is better than Android
           | or Mac.
        
       | CoastalCoder wrote:
       | I think the title has a typo.
        
         | SemanticStrengh wrote:
         | It has been rushed just like the reported decision
        
           | CoastalCoder wrote:
           | It sounds like I've missed some backstory. I gather people
           | have issues with Pop!_OS 22.04's audio subsystem?
           | 
           | From my perspective, 22.04 is no better or worse than
           | previous releases. I've always had Bluetooth audio issues
           | with Linux. And I'm usually outputting audio to the laptop
           | speakers or to HDMI, which have worked just fine.
        
             | diffeomorphism wrote:
             | My comparison is with fedora (pipewire by default) and
             | debian stable (pulseaudio). Bluetooth works better, e.g.
             | switching between headset and better audio quality
             | automatically, and you get compatibility with Jack for
             | free. Also sound and video recording and sharing now has a
             | nicer standard and works better with wayland.
             | 
             | That said, it is a drop-in replacement, so pretty
             | unnoticeable for most purposes. So if you notice nothing at
             | all, that means success.
        
           | dvh wrote:
           | I remember when Ubuntu's boss announced moving window buttons
           | to the left two weeks after ui freeze of upcoming lts. That
           | was the beginning of the end of the Ubuntu's desktop for me.
        
             | knorker wrote:
             | Was it better when they released 21.10 (IIRC) with a KNOWN
             | file system corrupting bug?
             | 
             | If you knowingly corrupt data, then what else matters?
             | 
             | (Having "we recommend that people who use ZFS don't
             | upgrade" hidden in release notes doesn't negate it)
        
               | reitanuki wrote:
               | I got bitten by this. It's one of the worst things to
               | leave a taste in my mouth for a while :/. They could have
               | at least put out a patch release of the install CD but
               | afaik it was still shipping with the broken version
               | months later (which was a pity when I needed a live CD
               | that was... safe to use... on my filesystem).
        
             | oblak wrote:
             | Luckily, it was possible for revert this change. I kind of
             | liked Unity. Still not sure why most people hated it
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | I hope some day I'll be able to make Pipewire work on Debian
       | without messing everything else in the process: tried to install
       | and set up it a few times and always failed ending up with no
       | audio. Now I have an almost perfect situation with very low
       | latency (4 ms or less) using Reaper with Alsa alone, no Jack
       | involved. Also, by using Yabridge I solved all compatibility
       | problems with Windows plugins, even those which wouldn't run
       | anymore on modern Windows versions. If you ever had problems with
       | LinVST, Yabridge will likely eliminate them all. My only problem
       | now is the inability to play along a track I'm listening to with
       | Qmmp or other player (that is, outside of Reaper) as it takes
       | entire control of the audio. I would have to use either
       | Pulseaudio with much much higher latency or Jack with all its
       | configuration issues.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | I don't know about your specific use case but my switch to
         | Pipewire (on Ubuntu, to be fair) was quite easy to pull off.
         | Stop+disable/uninstall PulseAudio, install Pipewire +
         | Wireplumber + pipewire-pulse + whatever else you need, enable
         | the necessary services by default on login and you're mostly
         | done.
         | 
         | My switch to Manjaro has only left me with one annoyance and
         | that's that it doesn't remember the default sink for some
         | reason. So far the 2 second clicks haven't been annoying enough
         | for me to invest time into fixing that, but one day I'll
         | probably find that darn broken setting...
        
           | andrewshadura wrote:
           | The Ubuntu PipeWire integration comes, in fact, from Debian.
        
             | jeroenhd wrote:
             | Of course, but Ubuntu and Debian ship different versions of
             | system libraries so one experience doesn't transfer to the
             | other as well as you might otherwise expect.
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | 4 ms is great. Do you happen to be using Intel HDA sound
         | hardware or is that too much to wish for?
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-21 23:02 UTC)