[HN Gopher] Who owns Einstein? The battle for the world's most f...
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       Who owns Einstein? The battle for the world's most famous face
        
       Author : marban
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2022-05-20 14:52 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | > When Richman discovered that a chain of stores owned by
       | Universal City Studios sold a sweatshirt with the slogan "E=mc2:
       | Shit Happens", he successfully had the sweatshirt banned, and
       | forced Universal to pay $25,000 in damages.
       | 
       | I'm unable to see the connection between a formula and Einstein's
       | face.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Turns out, everyone is able to see a connection between a
         | protracted legal battle with a known litigious hound with deep
         | pockets and success on this front. So they all settle or buy
         | the license. The litigious entity gets their way.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | Like the guy who claims he invented email?
           | 
           | He lies, you write an article about it, he sues you to death
           | and you settle.
        
       | daniel-cussen wrote:
       | Not the world's most famous face by any means. Not a battle
       | either.
       | 
       | As close as it gets to being an objectively clickbait title.
        
         | the_lonely_road wrote:
         | It's probably impossible to figure out who the worlds most
         | famous face is but given that constraint we can still do a
         | thought experiment on who we think the worlds most famous face
         | would be. I would pick Jesus but it's questionable if he was
         | even real and what he looked like if he wa. So going with faces
         | we can be certain of, Einstein seems like a solid pick. Maybe
         | Mona Lisa if the portrait counts.
        
           | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
           | Also Hitler or Donald Trump
        
             | daniel-cussen wrote:
             | +++By this point it is in fact Donald Trump. Hitler was
             | famous once, not anymore, people don't connect with the
             | Holocaust and WW2 like they did in the 90's. If you're born
             | after 2000 it might as well be the Napoleonic Wars, some
             | stuff that was on the test and nothing more. ..............
             | ...........................................................
             | ...........................................................
             | ...........................................................
             | ...........................................................
             | ....................................................... But
             | now it's Trump. Because of all the bad press. There was a
             | slowdown in the media markets when he left the presidency
             | because they were talking about him or his administrations
             | in the majority of headlines. I judge 65% of big headlines
             | were about him or his administration. Well you can't look
             | at it objectively, it's different for every news source. ..
             | ...........................................................
             | ...........................................................
             | ...........................................................
             | ...........................................................
             | ...........................................................
             | ....... I'm going to swear this comment cryptographically,
             | like I did in
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31451260. Nonce:
             | 27965+++
             | 
             | EDIT: I'm having difficulty working with HN, especially
             | puncuation modifications, it's tricky to copy paste into eg
             | https://geraintluff.github.io/sha256/
             | 
             | To get that oath, hash that message as ASCII, everything
             | between the triple +'s, "+++". Keep those out. You must get
             | 
             | 0002a29ee3e809d4dcf5adc2bc1fc7ed61a10a01efc37eb2207bdad9193
             | b1ebf
             | 
             | But copy the string into the console, not in the entry.
             | This is currently not an easy process.
        
             | Emma_Goldman wrote:
             | I would say this has >50% chance of being the right answer.
             | I would also treat Gandhi, Mao, Che, and a few
             | 'celebrities' like Cristiano Ronaldo and Leonardo DiCaprio
             | as contenders.
        
           | rhacker wrote:
           | If you asked everyone in the world to draw Trump's face and
           | Einstein's face I bet you more people would draw Trump more
           | accurately. But both have crazy hair so maybe it would be a
           | toss up.
        
           | boomboomsubban wrote:
           | Washington, Lincoln, or the Queen, due to currency. Maybe Mao
           | for similar reasons.
        
             | Insanity wrote:
             | Washington? I don't know for sure what he looks like, feels
             | quite US specific. But for some reason Lincoln I do know.
             | 
             | I would guess the "Mona Lisa". Or maybe actors in popular
             | films like Robert Downey Jr.
        
             | vertigolimbo wrote:
             | That's very US centric comment. I would need to think deep
             | to picture Washington.
             | 
             | I tell you what - it's the face of the most advertised
             | person. Currency is not used for advertising.
             | 
             | So out of three, it's easiest to recollect Lincoln with
             | stove top with US flag and pointing finger. Her majesty
             | comes second because all the memes of her longevity.
             | 
             | The most recognisable? Certain Hollywood actors. Period.
        
             | corrral wrote:
             | > Washington, Lincoln, or the Queen
             | 
             | How are those gonna do inside that surprisingly-small
             | circle you can draw over Asia and Oceania that contains
             | half the world's population? How about _all of Africa_?
             | 
             | Whichever face it is, it's probably recognizable to _both_
             | Indians _and_ Chinese people.
             | 
             | I wouldn't be surprised the winner's a well-known
             | bodhisattva. Though that opens up the question of whether
             | it has to be a _photo_ , and if not, the Lisa Gherardini
             | might be a real contender (though possibly disqualified,
             | since that identification isn't 100% certain).
        
               | boomboomsubban wrote:
               | Like a third of Africa is in the Commonwealth, as is
               | India and much of Oceania.
               | 
               | Maybe I've read too many articles about US currency being
               | used across the world. That said, I've seen a surprising
               | amount of foreign programs reference Lincoln's image.
               | Considering there are hundreds of billions of pennies in
               | existence I suspect he's more well known than you'd
               | think, even though they primarily are in the US.
        
             | Blahah wrote:
             | I have no idea what Washington and Lincoln look like, and
             | suspect the vast majority of people in the world also
             | don't, and probably haven't heard of them.
        
           | ipaddr wrote:
           | Close, it's Buddha.
        
           | deltree7 wrote:
           | Einstein is more famous than Jesus and Mona Lisa.
           | 
           | 40% of the world population are from India and China (a Non-
           | Jesus country).
           | 
           | Kids at a very young age are introduced to Einstein in pretty
           | much every school. Mona Lisa not so much.
           | 
           | In fact, growing up, I didn't know about Mona Lisa till about
           | age 20
        
             | potta_coffee wrote:
             | There are many Christians in India and in China.
             | 
             | The Bible is the best selling book of all time. I'm certain
             | that Jesus is more popular than Einstein. Not that care,
             | but your post is not factual.
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | > _Einstein is more famous than Jesus and Mona Lisa._
             | 
             | Also, we have very few photos of Jesus or the subject of
             | the Mona Lisa.
        
           | blackoil wrote:
           | Would be Iron man or Spiderman, recent and popular across the
           | world.
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Who is the world's most famous face then? Hitler? Mona Lisa?
         | Michael Jackson? Hide the Pain Harold?
        
           | throwaway28203 wrote:
           | I was thinking Marilyn Monroe.
        
           | dimator wrote:
           | I would bet there's a large number of people who know Harold
           | more than the others :)
        
           | inanutshellus wrote:
           | The smiley face.
           | 
           | :)
        
           | slowmovintarget wrote:
           | I would have said Ghandi... though polling suggests it's
           | actually Queen Elizabeth II.
        
             | potta_coffee wrote:
             | That's interesting. Her face is on a lot of paper currency,
             | I'm sure that contributes to her recognition.
        
               | daniel-cussen wrote:
               | That was originally the way money equalled fame. Also
               | time in many monarchies was tied to the biography of the
               | monarch. In Japan it was so, the Meiji period. In Matthew
               | Mark Luke and John, KJV.
        
       | RunawayGalaxy wrote:
       | It's crazy how much energy is spent trying to constrain free
       | information flow.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | deltree7 wrote:
         | If you read the article it is certainly more nuanced.
         | 
         | * The money is going to a Top University.
         | 
         | * There are strict limitations about how the images / brand can
         | be used. I especially like the idea of not mis-quoting and
         | fabricating quotes associated with Einstein.
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | Why should it be illegal to misquote someone who is dead?
           | That doesn't make a lot of intuitive sense to me.
           | 
           | As Abraham Lincoln once said:
           | 
           | "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet just
           | because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
           | 
           | Uh oh, time to throw me in jail, right!?
           | 
           | I realize that misinformation can be a powerfully bad thing
           | in this world, but I think there must be better ways to deal
           | with it than turning a dead person's image into a lucrative
           | capitalist enterprise.
           | 
           | Apple gets to use Einstein's image to advertise their
           | products because they could afford to pay the $600,000 fee,
           | but I can't use Einstein's image to promote my business
           | because, sorry, I'm not a worthy enough capitalist.
           | 
           | > The money is going to a Top University.
           | 
           | Oh, that makes it all better! Top Universities (TM) have the
           | unique ability to avoid all issues monetary related to
           | corruption prevalent in other institutions. (/s)
           | 
           | I'm going to guess that this money is going to be spent on
           | things like academics, perhaps the next Einstein will earn $9
           | million per year to perform groundbreaking research!
           | 
           | https://stanforddaily.com/2022/02/06/congressional-probe-
           | int...
        
           | dTal wrote:
           | I find myself unimpressed by this "nuance".
           | 
           | * Does the "Top University" need the cash? Who is it coming
           | from, and who is to say they do not need it more?
           | 
           | * Evidence suggests this has not in practice been prevented.
        
             | ashdnazg wrote:
             | https://www.timesofisrael.com/hebrew-university-to-open-
             | acad...
             | 
             | From 2016 - "The university is mired in debt amounting to
             | nearly NIS 13 billion ($3.4 billion) over employees'
             | pensions."
        
             | rvnx wrote:
             | Stanford for example costs several billions to run.
        
               | deltree7 wrote:
               | Exactly, it is not just operational cost for 1 year, but
               | Stanford and Hebrew universities have to survive the next
               | 500 years of humanity for the benefit of humanity. No
               | amount of Cash in the Reserve is enough for a 500 year
               | plan
        
               | akira2501 wrote:
               | So, they have to spend an inordinate amount of effort
               | constraining the free flow of information, to make money
               | off that information, so that they can ensure the free
               | flow of information into the next millennium?
               | 
               | That doesn't seem that great.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | These are top schools with huge endowment funds that act
               | as investment vehicles.
               | 
               | Many of them could theoretically operate indefinitely
               | without ever charging tuition, if the funds were
               | hypothetically allowed to be used in that way.
               | 
               | Someone did some napkin math on this for Harvard on
               | Quora: https://qr.ae/pvAQ7v
               | 
               | Now, this person didn't do a great job accounting for
               | inflation, but I do think a professionally managed
               | endowment can get much better than a 3% return on its
               | investments to cover inflation.
               | 
               | Harvard's endowment is pretty close to the same size as
               | Stanford.
               | 
               | It's really just the small, less prestigious universities
               | that have financial issues [1]. The Stanfords and
               | Harvards of the world don't need any help.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/27/more-colleges-face-
               | bankruptc...
        
               | deltree7 wrote:
               | "This person didn't do a great job of accounting for
               | inflation"
               | 
               | Listen to yourself. This is like saying "we have a
               | perfect earthquake prediction model, except it doesn't
               | predict certain types of earthquakes"
               | 
               | This comment along with the massive down-votes that my
               | posts have received proves that a majority of HN is
               | absolutely clueless about running businesses and I'm glad
               | for that
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | While the person doing the napkin math didn't account for
               | inflation, they were also wildly conservative in terms of
               | how much of a return endowments can get from their
               | investments, mostly just referencing the 4% rule that's
               | useful for retiring individuals with very low risk
               | tolerance.
               | 
               | They estimated that free tuition for all students would
               | cost 3% per year, but the S&P 500 has returned over 10%
               | yearly over the last 100 years, 7% adjusted for
               | inflation. [1]
               | 
               | This math also assumes that the school _never receives
               | another donation ever again,_ which is quite unlikely.
               | 
               | It should also be obvious that my point isn't that
               | schools should _literally_ run entirely on their
               | endowment. My point is: giving money to a school like
               | Harvard or Stanford isn 't really an act of charity at
               | this point, because they are juggernaut institutions that
               | are too big to fail. They don't need to be raking in
               | licensing fees from images and quotes from people who
               | have been dead for decades.
               | 
               | It's also interesting that, in your last sentence, you
               | are implying that HN viewers don't know anything about
               | running a _business,_ but last I checked we were talking
               | about _universities._ There 's a little bit of irony
               | here: my whole argument revolves around the fact that
               | these supposedly "non-profit" educational institutions
               | are acting very much like businesses in ways probably
               | shouldn't be.
               | 
               | In my view, images and text for deceased historical
               | figures like Albert Einstein and Martin Luther King, Jr.
               | should be part of the public domain much sooner than
               | copyright law currently allows so that we can all enjoy
               | and learn from their legacy freely without capitalist
               | incentives.
               | 
               | I think Reddit is a better place to complain about fake
               | Internet points. I highly recommend it!
               | 
               | [1] https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1926
        
               | deltree7 wrote:
               | Stanford releases most of their courses for free for the
               | world to consume and improve their knowledge and help
               | humanity.
               | 
               | It is not about internet points, but the fact that how
               | anti-capitalists the intellectual elites have become
               | despite massively benefiting from it and the single
               | biggest factor that has driven down poverty on a global
               | scale.
               | 
               | No one read the article. It was beautiful well-written.
               | Instead HN, like reddit went all pitch-fork "Hurr Durr,
               | Bad Capitalists"
        
               | potta_coffee wrote:
               | That they benefit "humanity" is a dubious claim. They
               | certainly benefit the small club that uses their
               | services.
        
               | ClumsyPilot wrote:
               | I am not clear why a person that lives in India should
               | care about Stanford, when the cost of tutoring 1 person
               | in Stanford can educate 10 people in India.
               | 
               | Especially when it is already so well-funded.
               | 
               | Stanford disproprotinately benefits very elite of an
               | already wealthy nation. That's okay, but purl-clutching
               | like they need every penny is kinda gross.
        
               | metadat wrote:
               | Actually, Stanford funds the academic portion of the
               | enterprise from the interest off it's endowment.
               | 
               | It is common knowledge that Stanford is really a front
               | for a real estate venture.
               | 
               | See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31266464
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | What's the angle? Who is profiting from this venture? How
               | much?
               | 
               | (And pro-tip re linked post: ideas carry better without
               | cryptoracist prose.)
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | newguynewphone wrote:
               | I'm sorry, what makes his link racist? The "Old, elite,
               | uber-wealthy white men" comment? As in all of stanfords
               | presidents?
        
             | deltree7 wrote:
             | Well, two flaws.
             | 
             | i) if Einstein had patented his ideas and had left Billions
             | of Dollars to a top university, would it have been ok with
             | you?. To answer your question, Universities are
             | institutions that last centuries. To survive and attract
             | the best in the world for 300 years, there is no limit of
             | cash that such an institution will need (they need to
             | survive economic crashes, world wars, climate catastrophes,
             | pandemics etc)
             | 
             | ii) You don't have counterfactual evidence. There is a
             | difference between mis-quoting in the comment section vs in
             | Billion $$$ Marketing campaigns
        
       | Terry_Roll wrote:
       | > Who owns Einstein? The battle for the world's most famous face
       | (theguardian.com)
       | 
       | Lawyers!
        
       | pmoriarty wrote:
       | At least with patents there's an argument to be made that patents
       | are a public good because they encourage disclosure of inventions
       | by their inventors.
       | 
       | Copyright can similarly be argued to benefit the public by
       | encouraging creators to create.
       | 
       | But how does the public benefit from enforcing publicity rights?
        
         | strbean wrote:
         | "If we don't enforce publicity rights, what incentive will
         | people have to gain renown?"
         | 
         | It's wild how nobody wrote or invented anything prior to the
         | rise of intellectual property.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | Or had a face.
        
         | bdowling wrote:
         | The public benefit is that if you see a person's name or
         | likeness used to promote a product, the public knows that the
         | person (or their estate) consented to the use. Without
         | publicity rights, anyone could use anyone else's name or
         | likeness to sell anything.
        
           | hanoz wrote:
           | You appear to be still describing the estate's benefit, not
           | the public's.
        
       | brink wrote:
       | Quite disappointing to see people behave like this.
        
       | pmoriarty wrote:
       | There's also a battle over who own Tesla. The point of contention
       | is over whether he was Croatian or Serbian.
        
         | wincy wrote:
         | Wasn't he American?
        
           | cgriswald wrote:
           | He was ethnically Serbian, was born in (what is now) Croatia,
           | moved to the United States in his late 20s, and gained his
           | United States citizenship in his mid-30s.
        
       | colechristensen wrote:
       | He died 67 years ago, nobody deserves to own his image.
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-20 23:02 UTC)