[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Thoughts on Being "Boring"
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Ask HN: Thoughts on Being "Boring"
I'm in my late 20s, just started my career proper as a developer. I
got into a big tech position, leaving behind startups and the chaos
of my early 20s, for now. When I started school at 18, I was full
of excitement and big ideas. Over time, economic, social, and
physiological realities have sunk in: big ideas are hard and take a
LOT of time to realize. Happiness is found in relationships. People
(myself included) are very limited and imperfect. The body requires
a lot of maintenance and has limited energy. Money is really nice.
A mentor has advised me not to become "boring" and wants me to try
to stay entrepreneurial. I still want to be creative. But I wonder
if I'll do these things or if I will just work and be happy. I
don't have a specific question here, just want to get perspectives
and experiences. It seems like this forum is full of people who
have traveled a similar path: starting with big ideas and hopes for
their future, sometimes being able to achieve those but through a
tremendous amount of time and effort. Or, have realized that a
certain amount of money, free time and family is all they really
need. What are your thoughts?
Author : bckr
Score : 31 points
Date : 2022-05-18 21:09 UTC (1 hours ago)
| didibus wrote:
| > A mentor has advised me not to become "boring" and wants me to
| try to stay entrepreneurial. I still want to be creative
|
| That mentor has an interesting definition of "boring". I agree
| about trying not to be boring, as so many in tech are boring, but
| that includes most entrepreneurial people in tech as well.
|
| For me, being "boring" is about a lack of life exploration and
| participation. Meeting people, investing in relationships, trying
| new things, traveling, being part of communities, having
| interests, hobbies, being multi-dimensional, those are what make
| you fun and interesting, in my opinion, they are also what life
| is all about.
|
| Sometimes it's hard to be interesting if you're going ahead
| trying to build a company, single product, single mission, lots
| of hard work, but it's always the same work, single track, single
| goal, that's very one dimensional. Because it's a lot of work and
| can be stressful, it's often all consuming, leaving no space for
| anything else. That means you can become quite a boring person.
|
| Now sometimes the reward pays off, and after the grind you can
| expand yourself due to your new found money and connections, but
| some people just don't make it, or when they do they stay boring,
| they missed their good years, or they feel they're only good at
| business now and just repeat the same old same old on a new
| venture, but it's basically the same thing so they don't really
| experience new things or have anything more to talk about.
|
| An alternative is to see work as a necessity of taking 40h to pay
| for all the other life exploration you want to afford. You can
| then be interesting outside of work, join clubs, travel, try new
| things, go out, meet people, even if online only, learn things,
| experiment, become multi-dimensional, have multiple things that
| define yourself, etc.
|
| How any of this relates to your personal happiness and feeling of
| accomplishment and worth is only for you to figure out. Some
| people are happier being boring, and need traditional recognition
| to feel worthy, like being rich or traditionally successful at
| business for example. Others are happier focusing only on family.
| Others are happier being interesting, and having experienced many
| different things and constantly trying some more. And any
| combination of the above.
| immigrantheart wrote:
| I think when you are 40 you will get midlife crisis and start
| becoming entrepreneurial/creative/out of the box again.
|
| For now just enjoy the money, the relationships, take care of
| your body. You will need all of these when you go into your
| creative mid-life crisis bout.
| kardianos wrote:
| Be boring, start a family, focus on obligations and
| responsibilities.
| paulcole wrote:
| > A mentor has advised me not to become "boring" and wants me to
| try to stay entrepreneurial.
|
| Your mentor wishes they weren't boring.
|
| Nearly everybody's boring (myself included). Don't sweat it.
| fsociety wrote:
| You can do great work at big tech companies. Sometimes startups
| and big tech are like two tribes and each group likes to pretend
| they are better than the other, but in reality everybody poops.
|
| There may be a time you want to go back to startups but don't do
| so in the interest of not being "boring".
| lmeyerov wrote:
| Less is more, especially later:
|
| - Career-wise*, work with good people on something important,
| maybe switch it up every 3-5 years. That is under your control
| and steady. Professionally, daily wins/losses, keeping up with
| joneses, etc. don't matter when you can point to these. Likewise,
| your trajectory is largely kept on lock by your peers as well.
| Skipping out on any of these causes problems like you're finding.
| Doing lots of tiny things doesn't add up after a point, and
| instead distracts from getting anywhere on the good ones. Working
| with bad teams, bad companies, and bad projects make it hard to
| progress as well. So line up the basics and no longer a concern
| -- just progressing on the mission largely takes care of the
| rest.
|
| - Same-but-different home-wise.
|
| *This kind of advice doesn't apply to ultra-political orgs like
| FAANGS or say banks.
| hnlmorg wrote:
| Sometimes it can be overwhelming being told what your "potential"
| is. And just because someone said you have good ideas it doesn't
| mean being an entrepreneur is right for you.
|
| Literally the most important thing you can do in life is find
| that balance that works for you. Being an entrepreneur isn't for
| everyone and there's no shame in that.
|
| Maybe take a step back and think "what would I regret not doing
| when I'm 30?" It might be start a family, travel the world, write
| a book. Or it might be start a business. But don't push yourself
| into that direction just because someone said you can/should do
| it.
| striking wrote:
| As with engineering, it's all tradeoffs. It's important to keep
| your "economic, social, and physiological" factors in check, and
| it's important to keep growing and keep pushing your limits to
| become better at the things you're interested in; the most
| important thing to do is to keep those things in balance, and
| adjust that balance when opportunities arise.
|
| I can illustrate this with an example. Having started my career
| shortly before the pandemic, I realized that it was pretty
| unlikely I'd be able to build out my network or get sufficient
| investment as the pandemic trudged on. The social and
| physiological factors mattered less, so I chose to double down on
| my job and skipped a bit of the social and physiological
| maintenance I could have been doing.
|
| As a result, I got really good at my job and accelerated my
| career and made a ton of impact. I got my career into a place
| that I'd be comfortable coasting at for the time being. And now I
| have the time to focus on those other factors, now that people
| are out and about and these things are beginning to matter again.
|
| Being entrepreneurial will mean different things throughout your
| life. Until you have a network and the resources and the skills
| necessary to start your own thing, you may want to spend time
| building those things up rather than starting something from the
| outset and learning everything the hardest way possible. In 2018,
| Harvard Business Review suggested the average age of the
| successful startup founder was 45,[1] and YC's Winter 2018 stats
| show that the average applicant/founder age was ~30.[2] So at
| least there's some indication that you have some time between now
| and then.
|
| And there's nothing wrong with taking smaller steps towards your
| goal. If you're looking to build up experience, you can work at a
| startup or start an open source project or look for leadership
| experience. You can do creative things without it necessarily
| being immediately entrepreneurial.
|
| tl;dr: take it easy, work on making yourself more ready for
| opportunities, and adjust how you balance your life based on the
| opportunities that are actually available to you and actually
| worth taking.
|
| 1: https://hbr.org/2018/07/research-the-average-age-of-a-
| succes...
|
| 2: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/yc-winter-2018-stats/
| tenkabuto wrote:
| I don't think you need to worry about choosing one path over the
| other. If you want to do "non-boring" things, you can still do
| them while working for a more conservative/mundane company. The
| latter can provide a solid foundation for you to explore the
| former.
|
| When I was in college I was pretty entrepreneurial. Since
| graduating and starting my career over the past few years, I've
| built a good foundation for myself (getting my own place, saving
| money, and growing in my career in a way that's complementary to
| my personal interests), and I'm now ramping back up to the levels
| of thinking and dreaming that I used to do (if not moreso).
|
| Edit: relating to your mention of the importance of
| relationships, note that you need to make connections with people
| that do the things you're interested in and keep your mind
| oriented towards that. I have entrepreneurial and creative
| friends. You have your mentor. You might benefit from meeting
| people that are closer to you in terms of how far along they are
| on the path towards what you're interested in - people to grow
| with and mutually inspire and encourage.
| vlunkr wrote:
| There are lots of ways to be creative and keep your life
| interesting that have nothing to do with being an entrepreneur.
| You can consume or create any type of art, learn about things
| unrelated to your career, do outdoors stuff, participate in
| various communities, do charity work etc etc. And if you're
| making big money at your "boring" job, you don't have to worry
| about marketing these skills or even being very good at them, it
| can just be for your own fulfillment.
|
| Our industry obsesses over successful entrepreneurs, and it's
| fine if that what you want to do, but don't let it blind you to
| everything else life has to offer.
| version_five wrote:
| Do you know the song "Simple kind of man" by Lynyrd Skynyrd? I
| think your dilemma is roughly what that song is about, but I also
| don't think you get to choose.
|
| I've had a few cushy jobs that would have set me for life with
| good money and work life balance, and I quit them because I was
| bored af and felt like I was wasting my life. I don't regret it
| at all, but I'm definitely "behind" lots of my peers who have
| been happy to settle. If you can find fulfillment in a "boring"
| life, do it. To some extend it's miserable always looking for
| more. But it's also exciting and I personally wouldn't want to
| "settle" and would be miserable if I did. As I say, i don't think
| it's really a decision, it will depend on who you are and what
| you prioritize.
| jonny_eh wrote:
| Your mentor might think you're boring, but what do your friends
| and family (and yourself) think? They're the ones that really
| matter.
| keyle wrote:
| Mentor are just that. It's your life, follow it the way you want,
| whichever way feels right, and don't submit to FOMO.
|
| Every decade or so you'll notice you're changing, you're not the
| same person. It's okay, it's part of life. Getting children for
| example will deeply change your perspective in life on what is
| important and what is frivolous society dreams.
|
| As you're moving into a position of more stability, you might be
| wondering if this is it. And that's a normal thing to think
| about. The sudden feeling that a block falls into place demands
| whether or not this is a good thing after all. Shift your focus
| towards other things that may spark your interest. Working fast
| and hard is only a facet of modern life.
|
| Do whatever makes you happy, or head in that direction and don't
| sweat the details. If however you feel you're headed in the wrong
| direction, then don't be afraid of bold moves. That's what never
| settling means; I don't think it means keep chasing your tail
| like wild pup. If one good thing falls into place, it's an
| opportunity to shift focus onto something else and try to excel
| there too.
| getoj wrote:
| From Bill Watterson's commencement speech at Kenyon College in
| 1990. I was lucky to read this when I was graduating and it
| changed my whole career path. I am now very happy and _very_
| boring:
|
| "Creating a life that reflects your values and satisfies your
| soul is a rare achievement. In a culture that relentlessly
| promotes avarice and excess as the good life, a person happy
| doing his own work is usually considered an eccentric, if not a
| subversive. Ambition is only understood if it's to rise to the
| top of some imaginary ladder of success. Someone who takes an
| undemanding job because it affords him the time to pursue other
| interests and activities is considered a flake. A person who
| abandons a career in order to stay home and raise children is
| considered not to be living up to his potential-as if a job title
| and salary are the sole measure of human worth.
|
| You'll be told in a hundred ways, some subtle and some not, to
| keep climbing, and never be satisfied with where you are, who you
| are, and what you're doing. There are a million ways to sell
| yourself out, and I guarantee you'll hear about them.
|
| To invent your own life's meaning is not easy, but it's still
| allowed, and I think you'll be happier for the trouble."
| tuanx5 wrote:
| This is a beautiful excerpt that I hadn't heard before --
| thanks for this perspective!
| angarg12 wrote:
| What an oddly judgmental piece of advice from a mentor. I'd take
| it with a pinch of salt and instead think in terms of problems
| instead of solutions e.g. what do you hope me to achieve by "not
| being boring"?
|
| I'm in my late 30s and I find that energy ebbs and flows through
| life and career. Sometimes you are excited and energized and you
| can channel that for change. Other times you are down for
| whatever reason. Take care of your self, and learn how you do
| your best work.
| encognito wrote:
| kwatsonafter wrote:
| Political instability, the decline of post-war culture, and the
| ascendency of the Global South is going to define your lifetime
| if you live long enough. The, "big ideas" are mostly bullshit.
| Read, "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" by Joseph Campbell. You're
| not Luke Skywalker, Neo, Harry Potter, or Elizabeth Swan. Do what
| you want and be free. You're not the main character and if you
| can realize that at some sincere level without killing yourself
| you'll be capable of everything. You'll be an actual human being.
| You'll be the breadth of the evening sky.
| yowlingcat wrote:
| There was an age (about 25 or so) where this lesson beat me
| over the head until I finally accepted it. It was very freeing.
| Ironically, it lead to the most professional and artistic
| growth I had experienced as a result.
|
| Turns out that focusing on what's right in front of you and
| ignoring "big ideas" (which are often more practical for
| aesthetics and performative identity over material reality)
| actually frees you to pursue what you really want. By trying to
| worry too much about "big ideas" I was actually being
| lazy/anxious about doing the actual work to figure out the
| "interesting ideas" that I actually wanted to pursue, "bigness"
| be damned.
| Youden wrote:
| When I was younger I was in a similar position. Now, I've
| realised that there's a lot more to life than work and you only
| have so much energy to spend.
|
| Spend your energy on what makes you happy.
|
| When it comes to work, I prioritise a high money/effort ratio. I
| get paid well at a megacorp but I work normal hours and take it
| pretty easy while working. That's not to say I'm lazy but I'm not
| crazy ambitious like some of my colleagues.
|
| Entrepreneurship really needs a lot of time, risk and dedication,
| so it's not for me.
|
| I also want to be creative but I do that outside of work. I have
| a lot of varied hobbies.
| psawaya wrote:
| Boring is subjective.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I just turned 50 and I'd say I've had entrepreneurial episodes
| where I've tried ambitious things and also times I was more
| 'boring' and mostly thinking about paying back my HELOC.
|
| I am working on another reinvention now and it will take a lot of
| time and a lot of work.... And I've still got some time and
| ability to work and a strong feeling of urgency because I don't
| know how much I have left.
| grundoon wrote:
| "It seems like this forum is full of people who have traveled a
| similar path: starting with big ideas and hopes for their future,
| sometimes being able to achieve those but through a tremendous
| amount of time and effort. Or, have realized that a certain
| amount of money, free time and family is all they really need."
| -- I think you could replace "this forum" with "this world" and
| it would still be true. At this point in my life I don't mind
| admitting: I'm in the latter group.
| sealaska wrote:
| I really like this essay [0] by cryptographer Moxie, specifically
| this section about starting a new career:
|
| "...simply observe the older people working there.
|
| They are the future you. Do not think that you will be
| substantially different. Look carefully at how they spend their
| time at work and outside of work, because this is also almost
| certainly how your life will look. It sounds obvious, but it's
| amazing how often young people imagine a different projection for
| themselves.
|
| Look at the real people, and you'll see the honest future for
| yourself."
|
| I also think money is really nice, but should not be a means unto
| itself.
|
| I used to bartend in a wealthy area. Lots of folks on this little
| town would get tipsy and start talking about how much money they
| have.
|
| One of my barometers for life is to have things I'm more
| passionate to talk about than wealth accumulation when I'm tipsy
| in a bar.
|
| [0] https://moxie.org/2013/01/07/career-advice.html
| avgDev wrote:
| I work for boring non-tech as an IC. I might get to tackle some
| interesting problems but the work is boring.
|
| Having a child changed my perspective. All I care about is max
| compensation for least amount of time consumed by work. As long
| as my manager/boss isn't an awful individual and there is no
| micromanagement I will be happy.
|
| Eventually we might stumble on an idea and build something that
| takes off but it is ok to go about life just making six figures.
| Some people work harder than me for half of my salary.
| falafelite wrote:
| I'm also late 20s, have enjoyed some startup chaos, and have come
| to similar points regarding contentment derived from
| relationships and coming to terms with my limits and finitude.
| I've thought "Am I giving up? Am I just doing the easy thing so I
| can live comfortably? At the cost of my
| dreams/ambitions/yearning?" Which seems like what your mentor has
| named "boring". But I don't think it's quite that simple.
|
| There is nothing wrong with finding a state of being that is
| comfortable for you right now. Maybe this is what you need, right
| now. There is nothing that says this is how it will be from now
| on. You might quit and start something in 5 years, you might not.
| You might enjoy side projects or other creative endeavors
| alongside your job.
|
| What you probably don't want to lose is that creativity, that
| excitement. Again, that doesn't need to look like a successful
| startup. It could look like a fun side project, a community
| effort you're involved in, whatever. The point is, and I think
| this is a big realization for me from the past year (but what do
| I know I'm not even 30) is that you don't need to put all your
| eggs in the job basket. It doesn't need to be your primary
| creative outlet. I'm fact, it might be better if it isn't tied to
| your livelihood.
|
| Sorry if I'm way off the mark from where your head is at, but I
| hope thoughts like this are what you're looking for. If not, my
| b!
| issa wrote:
| At 50 and looking back, I do not regret ANY of the fun and
| traveling of my 20s and 30s. 40s has been work and children,
| which is fun in a different way. But don't let youth be wasted
| when you are young.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| Your mentor almost sounds black and white. There are plenty of
| interesting, genuine people at "boring" companies.
|
| You don't have to take risks and financial sacrifices to be
| interesting. And being an entrepreneur isn't the end all solution
| to happiness, no matter how many Steve Jobs movies they crank
| out.
| PotatoPancakes wrote:
| If you want to be "exciting" (the opposite of boring) you'll
| always feel like you aren't living up to your potential; just
| like how power lifters always think their muscles are small and
| anorexic instagram models don't think they're skinny enough.
| Balance is much more rewarding.
|
| Do good work, work that pays, that you're good at, that you can
| be proud of. Then go home. Switch off, and enjoy your hobbies.
| Learn an instrument, get good at cooking exotic foods, and find a
| workout routine you enjoy.
|
| If you want to indulge your big ideas, read voraciously, and code
| up side-projects. Write a blog, or a book, or something like
| that. But don't try to make money from it. Betting your
| livelihood on your ideas puts too much pressure on, and you won't
| be happy. Most entrepreneurs aren't happy, not even the wealthy
| ones.
| leros wrote:
| Be wary of advice from a successful entrepreneur. They've gambled
| and won. Unless you want to be an entrepreneur and you're also ok
| with the idea of failing and never becoming rich from it, their
| advice might not apply to you and your life.
| ARandomerDude wrote:
| I'm doubly wary of unsuccessful people telling me it's (nearly)
| impossible to be successful. Can't never could.
| analog31 wrote:
| Also, don't assume that all entrepreneurs are edgy risk-takers.
| Many entrepreneurs find a niche that they can fill, using
| innovation to reduce their risk to a manageable level.
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