[HN Gopher] I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone
___________________________________________________________________
I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone
Author : erohead
Score : 1593 points
Date : 2022-05-17 14:27 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (smallandroidphone.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (smallandroidphone.com)
| grwthckrmstr wrote:
| Using the Pixel 4a. Basically the perfect form factor and size.
| I'd upgrade every 2-3 years to a new version of the same phone
| with minor updates like the chipset etc.
|
| Dreading the day I'll have to start searching for a replacement
| :(
| dbrgn wrote:
| The Pixel 3a (my current phone) has a 5.6" screen, the 4a has a
| 5.8" screen and the Pixel 5 has a 6" screen. However, they're
| all approximately the same physical size, it's just the bezels
| that got smaller.
| dont__panic wrote:
| The 4a is actually a smidge smaller than the 3a. Much easier
| to handle, IMO, though not quite ideal.
|
| Your point about bezels getting smaller is very true for the
| phones you mentioned. But you also left out the Pixel 4a 5G,
| the Pixel 5a, the Pixel 6, the Pixel 6 Pro, and the Pixel 6a.
| Which all ballooned massively in _physical_ size relative to
| their predecessors.
| gertlex wrote:
| Same... Used the Pixel 2 before that. Probably will buy a spare
| 4a on ebay soon.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| Meh, unfortunately the most important smart phone app is the web
| browser, and what the browser has to do is dictated mostly by
| site operators, and web sites have an expansionist hunger for
| more and more cpu power and screen space. So phones have to keep
| getting bigger batteries even as the electronics get more
| efficient, because the work loads get heavier faster than the
| electronics can keep up with. Once you have such a big battery,
| you may as well also have a big screen, especially since you need
| it anyway to keep the web sites readable without a magnifying
| glass.
|
| It is a vicious circle. I blame the rise of non-removable
| batteries and the transformation of javascript from a scripting
| extension into a full fat application framework. It would be
| great if more sites had public API's.
| usrusr wrote:
| So, how much would we be willing to pay for an Android
| distribution that runs on the iPhone mini?
| soylentgraham wrote:
| Im still on an iphone SE (same shell as 5s) and waiting for
| another iphone this small. The mini is still too big!
|
| I mean, I was a big fan of the nokia 8210, the iphone nano (the
| long one) and the razr when it first came out.
|
| I dont watch tv/films on my phone because Im not insane, give me
| a smaller one!
| abujazar wrote:
| I find even the iPhone 12 mini way too large. The iPhone 4 form
| factor was perfect.
| orangepurple wrote:
| Has anybody tried the $32 SOYES XS11 or $70 or UNIWA XS11
|
| It's a 2.5 inch 3G Android phone. http://www.cwell-
| hk.com/products/SOYES_XS11.aspx
|
| Lots of small Android phones are in the recommended section on
| cwell-hk in the $40 range.
| amyjess wrote:
| Unfortunately, the lack of LTE makes it unusable in the US.
| spicybright wrote:
| I wouldn't recommend them. Almost every single one is using a
| very old version of android.
|
| Which is surprisingly usable, but there are some apps that
| don't work.
|
| I also wouldn't actually log into _anything_ unless you 're ok
| being pwned. No security patches, plus sketchy cheap as dirt
| chips running it.
|
| You can also not type on it. Maybe a sentence, but it'll take
| you 3x as long if not more trying to correct typos. If you do
| any text based communication, you're going to have a bad time.
|
| Overall, not worth it.
| orangepurple wrote:
| Right, but can they be hacked to run vanilla upgraded
| software?
| spicybright wrote:
| Never tried, not knowledgeable enough in the area. But I
| wouldn't hold my breath on it. And I still wouldn't trust
| the chips on the board.
|
| There's definitely been cases of spyware locked onto chips
| in clever ways. Not good for 2FA.
| dont__panic wrote:
| > 3G
|
| Considering how much USA cell companies are trying to kill 3G,
| and the fact that 4G/LTE has been around for over a decade
| now... I'm not sure this makes sense for anybody any more.
| moffkalast wrote:
| > Android 6.0 Operation System
|
| They're kidding, right?
| orangepurple wrote:
| China/HK is wild
| dleslie wrote:
| Those look lovely.
|
| Now can I have one with Android 11 and a halfway decent camera?
| MassPikeMike wrote:
| The newer, 3.0 inch XS12 from the same manufacturer has 4G LTE
| and Android 9.0. It's in the $80 range.
|
| http://www.cwell-hk.com/products/SOYES_XS12.aspx
| orangepurple wrote:
| Seems like we just need a modernized XS12 with the correct
| frequencies
| erohead wrote:
| I'm a long-time small phone Android user. But after the Pixel 5,
| I have not been able to find a suitable small Android
| replacement. The Pixel 6 is gigantic, and the Pixel 7 looks like
| it is also destined to be huge. It's gotten so bad that I've
| resorted to using an iPhone Mini, biding my time and hoping
| desperately that some Android OEM would step up.
|
| But it's increasingly clear that a small premium phone is not on
| the roadmap. So I've decided to take matters into my own hands.
| My goal with https://smallandroidphone.com is to rally other fans
| of small phones together and put pressure on
| Google/Samsung/Anyone to consider making a small phone.
|
| I have a very specific set of skills and industry connections
| that I have acquired over a long career in the hardware business
| (my first startup was Pebble). I will put them to use in our
| shared quest to get the perfect small Android phone. If no one
| else builds one, and enough people sign up...maybe I will be
| forced to make it myself.
|
| If you want a small premium Android phone, this may be your last
| chance (ever?) to help bring back the phone category that we
| love.
| peterlk wrote:
| If this phone allowed for 2 SIM cards, I would pay a silly
| amount of money for it
| jray wrote:
| One of the reasons I want a small phone is because I already
| have other devices with a larger screen: computer, laptop and
| tablet. That's why I want it to be cheap, I have already spent
| a lot on different devices and for the little use I give it I
| want it to be cheap and small.
| octoberfranklin wrote:
| Of course. But _phone manufacturers don 't want this_. They
| don't want you using those other devices. And they have the
| power, so you will submit to their decisions.
| steanne wrote:
| why don't they? then they could sell me two things! back in
| the day i had a motorola droid AND a xoom.
| achow wrote:
| Curious how would you solve the battery issue, since in your
| spec you mention 4Hrs of Screen On Time (SoT), and it would be
| a 5G phone (battery drainer)?
|
| iPhone Mini with its H/W & S/W integration barely manages 4Hrs
| of SoT. An 'Android Mini' phone with its mini batteries, how
| can it match upto iPhone Mini? And mind you, low sale of iPhone
| Mini is also due to the 'battery/range anxiety' that its users
| have.
|
| Upon that any Mini form factor needs to be even less thinner,
| as visual perception of thickness is inversely proportional to
| a form's face/back surface area. So for this mini phone to be
| reasonably attractive (not chunky) it needs to have a very slim
| profile; which translate to small battery.
| wing-_-nuts wrote:
| It's pretty damning that when one searches for 'best small
| android phone' the pixel 5a (massive!) is at the top of most
| lists.
| mertd wrote:
| Maybe they are conflating Pixel 5 and 5a. 5a is larger but 5
| while still a big phone, is not that bad.
| [deleted]
| jjav wrote:
| I bought a Palm Phone as soon as it came out, it is the perfect
| phone. Basically same size as the old Motorola Razr but even a
| bit thinner.
|
| I'm very sad they discountinued it. I hope mine lasts forever
| or that either Palm or someone else fills this market gap for a
| small phone. If this initiative does it, thank you!
|
| My highest requirement for a phone is that it easily fits into
| the front pocket of tight jeans so I can't ever even feel that
| it is there. The Palm Phone meets this requirement, haven't
| found anything else that does.
| 51Cards wrote:
| I'm curious why you say "After the Pixel 5". Isn't that still
| pretty current specs wise? I love mine. I too would like to
| know where I'm moving next, but I'm also quite content with its
| specs for likely awhile yet.
| barfingclouds wrote:
| Jelly 2
| djbusby wrote:
| Pixel3 here, cause it's still pretty small (but not too small)
| Valakas_ wrote:
| Samsung S7 user here. Perfect phone. Good looking (silver one
| is awesome), no notches, great camera, good battery.... and
| perfect size. It's hard to accept for companies that they
| already achieved a great result, and only minor improvements
| need to be added. Maybe because if they would keep selling S7a,
| S7b, etc people wouldnt be so convinced to buy new ones so they
| need to make changes and somehow convince people the many
| changes are for the better... even if they aren't.
| nicbou wrote:
| When I broke my Pixel 5, I bought another one, even though the
| Pixel 6a was out at that point.
|
| The Galaxy S22 has a similarly-sized screen, but the EU version
| is rubbish.
| prutschman wrote:
| I get that tastes vary and some people apparently don't mind
| the hole punch in the display, but I'm curious why you list its
| presence as a hard requirement. It seems like it would make the
| display unnecessarily harder to source.
| eertami wrote:
| Similar user, and I have no idea if there will be anything left
| to buy after the Pixel 4a. I expect the 4a will be good enough
| for another 3 years at-least, if there are no accidents.
|
| Hopefully by then there is something available which continues
| the form factor. 4a has been the perfect successor to the Nexus
| 4, it's a little taller but other than that has practically the
| same footprint.
|
| With the 6a moving in a different direction (eg: removing the
| headphone jack) I'm just hoping someone else comes along as a
| spiritual successor for the Pixel Xa-series.
| tabiv wrote:
| I've been looking into the Asus Zenfone 8 to replace my 4a
| eventually. It's expensive but it's compact.
| srazzaque wrote:
| I was about to buy exactly this after reading reviews,
| wanting a compact phone, and my Note8 dying.
|
| But for a few different reasons I ended up just getting my
| wife an S22 (non plus) and then inherited her S20 (non
| plus), which has a very similar form factor.
|
| Definitely felt the OPs frustration in looking for compact
| Android phones. They just plain don't exist.
| yxhuvud wrote:
| I like the form factor of mine. Only thing I don't like
| with it is the battery time, which is shorter than I'd have
| preferred. But I bought it almost a year ago now, there
| might be a new model coming that fixes that.
| zmix wrote:
| A spare battery could fix this. Of course, only if
| designed this way.
| Valakas_ wrote:
| The pixel 4a will be good for another 3 years? What kind of
| apps are you using? I'm still using a Samsung S7 and don't
| plan to replace it until it explodes or turns into dust. Then
| again I don't play games, but I do use it extensively to
| write/browse/chat. It's somewhat sluggish, but who cares?
| This idea that we need perfect loading times and constant
| high-tech phones is such a spoiled mindset.
| Mindwipe wrote:
| > It's somewhat sluggish, but who cares? This idea that we
| need perfect loading times and constant high-tech phones is
| such a spoiled mindset.
|
| It is, however, probably not a great idea to use a device
| that hasn't had a security update for several years.
|
| Even if you were using a custom ROM and trusted that it was
| correctly patched (which is a big if) then there's hardware
| exploits on the Snapdragon 820, and I imagine there are
| probably similar on the Exynos 8890. Some of these can't be
| mitigated by software.
| nicpottier wrote:
| Snag up a lightly used Pixel 5 while you can. You get 5G and
| it is basically the same form factor, just a bit better all
| around. (I've had both and the Pixel5 is a step up for sure)
| eertami wrote:
| The 5 was already available here when I purchased the 4a
| (Europe), but the 5 was twice as expensive - which is hard
| to justify for "a bit better".
|
| A headphone jack is much more useful for me personally than
| 5G, so I happily saved the money.
| crossroadsguy wrote:
| I faced a similar problem when I didn't find a sanely sized
| flagship non-bloated (though that's essentially an oxymoron
| in Android world including the Pixels) Android phone
| sometimes back and I decided to vote with my wallet and I
| bought the first iPhone SE, then 7, and now 12 Mini. I am an
| Android developer and the way the OS is designed (UX and
| privacy wise; even the stock one) I don't really see myself
| moving back to Android anytime soon but I wish there was a a
| flagship normal sized phone.
|
| I dislike Apple for a lot of things but in this duopoly the
| size of a phone is such a fundamental characteristic that
| you're out of options anyway.
|
| I think most of the people are "swiper users" -- the "content
| consumers" -- so they want big phones and OEMs are simply
| making what the near 100% majority (yup!) wants.
| BarryMilo wrote:
| Growing up I was told the major advantage of capitalism is
| that you get a diversity of offerings. This seems less and
| less true as time goes on, but maybe it was always an
| illusion.
| shmel wrote:
| It is only true when entry barriers to the market are
| low. Capitalism will give you a diversity of toasters or
| beer. Complex tech devices like phones have higher
| barriers, you can't just hack up a phone in a team of 5
| people. Besides, economy of scale makes niche products
| more expensive.
| alfiedotwtf wrote:
| Another Pixel 4a user here. I haven't found a single
| compelling reason to move to another phone, and will drive
| this one into the ground... Hopefully there's a suitable
| replacement once it's dead, otherwise I'll just buy another
| 4a
| wingworks wrote:
| Yeah, I've been using the 4a for about a year now, it is
| pretty sweet. It's the phone I wanted after the Nexus 5.
| (but with wireless charging). The size is great and it's
| light. I hate heavy phones.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| I am also planning to move from a 4a, and at this point it
| would be either a Sharp R7 (probably not available
| internationally though) or a Sony Xperia 10 IV.
|
| The Sony seems to be the best alternative though I have no
| idea of the software quality.
| amyjess wrote:
| > Sony Xperia 10 IV
|
| Unfortunately, it looks like it won't be sold in the US.
| Does it support US LTE bands so I can import it at least?
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Band support seems to be better, though I'm not sure
| which band would work in the US. Also they haven't
| announced the non carrier bundled model yet, so I'm stil
| waiting as well to see how it pans out.
| lrem wrote:
| I've been burnt by Sony. Back in the first generation of
| the compact flagship. A great phone in all aspects... Until
| it was dropped. A tiny crack in the corner of the screen,
| you wouldn't notice without looking for it. Unfortunately
| engineering choices by Sony folk meant that any crack
| anywhere disabled the digitizer (i.e. the touchscreen loses
| the touch part). Such a bummer.
| taneliv wrote:
| Countering your anecdote with mine.
|
| I have an Xperia 10 II (or something like that, the
| slimmest Android device I could find back in early 2021).
| The back cover is cracked all over, to the point I
| sometimes get cuts on my fingers. Two of the corners have
| dents.
|
| The back camera that takes the actual photo is several
| degrees off (like 10 or 15deg) from whatever is used for
| the preview. Works perfectly in all the other ways.
| Probably isn't waterproof any more, but I never needed
| that before, either.
| lrem wrote:
| Is there a crack on the touchscreen itself though?
| Markoff wrote:
| List of smaller Android phones with decent specs:
|
| Pixel 5 - 144.7 x 70.4 x 8 mm
|
| Samsung S22 - 146 x 70.6 x 7.6 mm
|
| Zenfone 8 - 148 x 68.5 x 8.9 mm (could be higher thanks to
| narrower body)
|
| Xiaomi 12X - 152.7 x 69.9 x 8.2 mm
|
| Samsung S21 - 151.7 x 71.2 x 7.9 mm
|
| Sony doesn't produce phones, but remote controls. Their
| software is nice clean, but their camera is pretty bad,
| might as well buy Zenfone 8 if you don't mind camera.
| ephbit wrote:
| Probably not what you would deem decent specs .. but
| small.
|
| SHIFT5me - 141,5 mm x 71 mm x 9 mm
|
| https://shop.shiftphones.com/shift5me.html
| Markoff wrote:
| only 3mm shorter, but other dimensions bigger than pixel
| 5 plus MUCH smaller display thanks to huge bezels
| PhileasNietzche wrote:
| >Sony doesn't produce phones, but remote controls. Their
| software is nice clean, but their camera is pretty bad,
| might as well buy Zenfone 8 if you don't mind camera.
|
| I imagine few who have used one would ever be able to say
| this with a straight face. I never met an iPhone user who
| believed me when I told them all the photos I was showing
| them were taken with an Xperia XZc (1 and 2,
| respectively) and that's with every single one of them.
| There may be half a dozen compact smartphones that really
| compare to the XZ2c. Sony just gave up on them because
| the herd loves their phablets so much.
|
| I am also a current owner of the Zenphone 8 and its
| camera is also decent. If it's really important that you
| be able to snap the best photos possible, though, they've
| been developing these discrete camera things for over a
| century (and the best of them will likely continue to
| outperform any general purpose device for the foreseeable
| future).
| fomine3 wrote:
| Is Sharp R7 your option? It's just a normal sized (read:
| big/weighty) flagship phone.
| infinityplus1 wrote:
| Just buy another Pixel 4A. There must be a brand new model
| still available with some retailer.
| bscphil wrote:
| Thank you for working on this! I want to be honest, though, and
| say I think you're missing what the _majority_ of users on this
| forum want in a small phone.
|
| > Sub 6" display, matching size and design of iPhone 13 Mini
|
| No, bad. What most of us want are the particular set of trade-
| offs made by phones around 2015. Design wise, that means that
| you've got to have another hole in the bezel, because there's
| going to be an earphone jack. That's apparently anathema for
| modern phones, but probably 90+% of us want it. Again, that's
| Hacker News specific. I haven't polled the market in general. I
| just know that I (and many others) won't consider buying your
| phone unless it has a jack.
|
| Likewise, I have not much interest in a phone with a hole
| punched in the screen (?!) for a camera or an ugly "notch". I
| realize this is more controversial, but I don't know the last
| time I even used a front camera. I think it's more in keeping
| with the ideal 2015 design to make the bezel just large enough
| to contain a camera, speakers, light sensor, flash/LED, etc. I
| would reluctantly buy a phone with a camera hole if it was
| otherwise acceptable and there was no ideal option on the
| market.
|
| I'd prefer if the back were completely flat as well, with no
| camera bump. That's totally just my aesthetic preference
| though, I don't know how others feel. I think it should be
| possible to achieve this if we're going back to not worshiping
| thinness, and making the small phone thicker for the sake of
| battery life.
|
| I'd also prefer a 16x9 display to whatever Apple is doing now.
| So much web video is still 16x9.
| ako wrote:
| No bad. I don't want those iritating headphone wires. Also a
| phone that doesn't mind being dropped in water, so no
| headphone jack please. Notch is not really an issue, front
| facing camera is useful for video-calls. And i don't have a
| camera bump, that's solved by the case. Also, no idea what
| i'd do with memory cards, there's plenty memory in the my
| phone.
|
| The iphone 13 mini works well for me. No idea if this
| represents anybody elso on HN...
| bscphil wrote:
| > Also a phone that doesn't mind being dropped in water, so
| no headphone jack please.
|
| People have somehow managed to forget this, but phones have
| been waterproof since ... basically forever without
| forgoing a headphone jack. I could link probably half the
| phones made between 2012-2017, but this phone is actually
| linked by the site itself:
| https://www.theverge.com/2015/10/16/9549247/sony-
| xperia-z5-r...
|
| Honestly, I'm not sure what the issue is supposed to be
| here. I've literally never, in 12 years of owning a
| smartphone, dropped it in water. I have no clue how that's
| even supposed to happen short of it falling into a river.
|
| Since this is a small phone, I suspect most people will
| probably not be using a case that adds significantly to the
| size. Just a guess on my part though. I can live with a
| camera bump if I have to, I just think a lot of us miss the
| candy bar designs of ~2014-2015.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I've never dropped a phone in water either, but what I
| did do was ride a motorbike in heavy rain with the
| smartphone as GPS and no case around it.
| qq66 wrote:
| The most common way that a phone gets into water is that
| a woman has the phone in her pocket and it falls into the
| toilet. Most women's clothing has extremely terrible
| pockets that cannot securely hold a modern-size
| smartphone.
| ricardobeat wrote:
| Some might want to do it on purpose... like recording
| videos in a pool or lake. I've done it with a 6S, it
| survived just fine.
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| I am typing this from a waterproof phone with a USB C port
| and headphone jack. Yes, I have put it underwater. There
| were plenty of waterproof phones with headphone jacks
| before flagships dropped the port.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _Design wise, that means that you 've got to have another
| hole in the bezel, because there's going to be an earphone
| jack. That's apparently anathema for modern phones, but
| probably 90+% of us want it. Again, that's Hacker News
| specific. I haven't polled the market in general. I just know
| that I (and many others) won't consider buying your phone
| unless it has a jack._
|
| Your jump from "I want" to "90+% of us want" is an egregious
| failure in reasoning. You say that you haven't polled the
| greater market, but you also haven't even polled HN.
| bscphil wrote:
| That's fair. On the other hand, if there's a single issue
| with modern phones that gets HN users raging more than
| their size, it's the lack of a headphone jack. I don't
| think I've seen a single issue that's been more complained
| about. The dominant narrative on HN seems to be that even
| if one doesn't use headphones personally, the removal of
| the jack served no purpose other than to pad the pockets of
| Apple. (Someone even managed to modify their iPhone to add
| an internal jack without breaking it, so it was definitely
| possible for Apple to do so without compromises.)
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| This is a bias in what you notice, not what people care
| about. Some people care strongly about headphone jacks,
| but until you have data indicating that some==most, you
| shouldn't let that feeling turn into a population-based
| argument.
| bscphil wrote:
| That's entirely possible, but this whole _thread_ is
| based on exactly the same perception! The claim, possibly
| false, is that a sizable portion of HN users want _small_
| phones. That could be just visibility bias as well!
|
| My comment is asserting that if we're assuming that the
| narrative on HN around small phones is not just sampling
| bias, then it's also good to assume that the narrative
| around a headphone jack is not just sampling bias. That
| means we have to believe that a large percentage of users
| looking for a small phone are also looking for a
| headphone jack - basically, what I called a "2015"
| design.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _The claim, possibly false, is that a sizable portion
| of HN users want small phones. That could be just
| visibility bias as well!_
|
| All you need to do is look at iPhone sales metrics. The
| iPhone 12 mini and SE2 collectively were 10+% of iPhone
| sales in the second half of 2020 and first half of 2021.
| 10% of iPhone sales is 24 million phones per year.
|
| > _if we 're assuming that the narrative on HN around
| small phones is not just sampling bias_
|
| _We_ aren't. You shouldn't be assuming anything about
| some supposed narrative on HN at all, and you definitely
| shouldn't trust your own perceptions of such a narrative
| when you've already shown that you mentally translate "I
| and also I saw some comments some times" into "90+% of
| everyone here".
|
| Such a narrative not only doesn't really exist, even if
| it did exist it still wouldn't matter, because, again, we
| have sales numbers for small iPhones that prove that
| people buy tens of millions of them annually when
| available.
| dspillett wrote:
| I'd love a small primary phone with good battery life for
| general use (SMS/IM, and (shock!) making/taking calls).
| Relatively low resolution screen would not be a problem at all.
|
| But I, like most people I expect, also use my phone for many
| other uses some of which make good use of a larger screen at
| higher resolution: in-car GPS and while running/walking out on
| the trails, web browsing and social media stuff that would not
| be pleasant on smaller screens, occasionally video. The better
| screen necessitates a bigger battery too, increasing the weight
| and size a bit more.
|
| I'm not sure there is a solution for that, other than perhaps
| carrying two devices around. Most people would not be happy
| with that solution and tethering the bigger device to the
| smaller ones (so they share internet connectivity instead of
| both needing SIMs & paid accounts) will reduce the battery life
| of the small device noticeably (running the 4G/5G and WiFi
| radios constantly being quite a drain I find, when tethering a
| laptop to my main current phone).
|
| For a lot of people who would want the smaller phone, there is
| a secondary need for which they want the larger one too, and
| putting up with a big device for everything is likely to be the
| preferable "compromise" compared to carrying two devices.
|
| I've considered the two device approach, but the only really
| small phones (significantly smaller than my current main
| device) I found were cheap Chinese imports and one of the first
| corners cut on those is using a cheap battery that won't last
| long on active use. Battery life is why my current phone is
| large than the previous one (which was already larger than I'd
| prefer often) as it can last a goodly while in active use (GPS
| and screen on).
|
| _tl;cbatr:_ I suppose the point of this directionless
| rambling, is that I think the market for a smaller device,
| people who would actually buy one rather than just those who
| think it is something that should exist, is smaller than you
| hope.
| kelnos wrote:
| > _in-car GPS and while running /walking out on the trails,
| web browsing and social media stuff that would not be
| pleasant on smaller screens, occasionally video_
|
| I think the last time I considered screen size a limiting
| factor for these activities was when the flagship phones had
| 4.5" screens or so. We've gone well beyond what's needed for
| me to find the screen large enough for regular activities,
| and well into the realm where I find using my phone with one
| hand to be uncomfortable.
| dspillett wrote:
| Size isn't the reason I went with the larger phone last
| time I upgraded - it was the longer active (rather than
| standby) battery life. I can be a fair distance from any
| source of power for a goodly time and not worry about it
| shutting down for that reason. Even smaller devices (of
| those easily available at the time) showed less endurance
| in independent tests, due to having the smaller battery in
| their smaller form and/or less advanced chipsets, the
| exception being one with a lower resolution screen but that
| was a compromise point too.
| ohyoutravel wrote:
| This is where I am. Love the idea of a small phone like the
| android Palm Phone, and almost bought one. But my iPhone 13
| Pro Max is basically so big I use it in place of my laptop
| for many, many things. So it basically replaces my dslr
| because of the camera quality and my laptop unless I'm
| writing software. Though I would love a small phone, I didn't
| buy the Palm which would have been perfect for when I'm
| running or something, so I'm not sure I would buy this, even
| though I want it to exist.
|
| Palm phone fwiw also got discontinued for lack of interest as
| far as I know.
| jacobrussell wrote:
| You can still buy it on Amazon [0].
|
| [0] https://www.amazon.com/Palm-PVG100-Premium-Unlocked-
| Titanium...
| aidenn0 wrote:
| Palm phone was expensive with garbage specs. But I suppose
| I was never in the market for it; I wanted a phone that was
| good enough to be my only phone.
| ctas12345 wrote:
| The specs are indeed garbage, but I've been using it as
| my daily driver for over a year and I really don't want
| to change to anything else since the form factor and
| weight are just so nice for when I'm out of the house.
| For reading the news at home or similar stuff, I do use
| an old Pixel 3a though.
| throwaway675309 wrote:
| I would think if you were running that you would prefer a
| smaller screen, having to stick a gigantic slab in my pocket
| whenever I transition from my walk to my jog constantly
| reminds me that I've got a brick flopping around in my
| shorts.
|
| I never had a problem using a GPS on a small iPhone hooked up
| to a magnet on my dash in my car before, I can't imagine an
| extra inch and a half of real estate making that much of a
| difference.
| dspillett wrote:
| _> I would think if you were running that you would prefer
| a smaller screen_
|
| On of the reasons I'd like a smaller device, though there
| is the already stated compromises around smaller battery
| too, and it being a general use device. If I had a small
| device with excellent battery life I could carry that
| normally and tether a larger device, in my backpack when
| not in such use, for mapping and other when needed (I'm not
| talking nipping out for 10K here, sometimes this is full-
| or multi-day walking-or-faster events).
|
| _> having to stick a gigantic slab in my pocket ...
| reminds me that I 've got a brick flopping around in my
| shorts._
|
| While the perfect phone doesn't exist, I have found the
| holy grail of shorts: big enough pockets that the slab
| fits, but tight enough and small enough that it doesn't
| jiggle noticeably, but not tight to me such that is
| exacerbates sweat in that patch. Also, the phone for nav on
| long routes is tertiary, I have breadcrumb trail on my
| wrist and a printed map (on rip- & water-resistant paper),
| so if I'm going far enough to require a bag for
| water/foot/1st-aid/other then there is room for the slab in
| there too and it isn't too out of reach.
| scarface74 wrote:
| > I'm not sure there is a solution for that, other than
| perhaps carrying two devices around. Most people would not be
| happy with that solution and tethering the bigger device to
| the smaller ones (so they share internet connectivity instead
| of both needing SIMs & paid accounts)
|
| People do that all of the time and gladly pay the extra $10
| for a smaller "phone" - the cellular Apple Watch.
|
| I will leave my phone in a heartbeat when I'm going to the
| gym, the pool, or anywhere else where a large phone isn't
| convenient and I still want to be able to keep in touch with
| people
| carlivar wrote:
| Samsung S22
| bhandziuk wrote:
| I just had to throw away my Pebble Time ~1 month ago. It was
| the best watch I could have asked for but I got some ocean
| water in it and it wouldn't dry out this time :( I am also
| using an Moto G7 Play android phone from like 2018 because it's
| the only small phone I could find for a reasonable price. I
| would love to see you make something like this!
| rejor121 wrote:
| I'm in the same boat, though I like apple. I'd still go for an
| android phone if they made something really small though.
|
| However, I think the era of small phones as we know it is over
| for now. The smallest we have is the Mini, and even that isn't
| small.
|
| In fact, I think the next version of the small phone will be
| flip phones. We already see this with the Samsung fold. I tried
| one and was pretty impressed, and I feel like this is the
| likely direction the industry may take.
|
| However, I'm using my current phone for the next five or six
| years. I'm sure by then, the folding screen tech will improve a
| lot, and apple may even have their own version out by then.
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| I have baby hands, I am a dwarf.
|
| With each generational increase of display size, The number of
| times I drop the phone over its lifetime increases
| proportionally. I've used android phones from 2.8" to 5.7"
| display as daily drivers over the past decade.
|
| I assume, Many with small hands(palms) do face the issue of
| dropping phones, So I finding it quite surprising that 'Easily
| Repairable' wasn't included in neither 'Must have' nor 'Nice to
| have'.
|
| Repairability is so important to me that, I have stopped buying
| new smartphones since 2017. My last/current phone has full-
| metal construction, is easily repairable, has security
| updates(sans proprietary blobs) via LineageOS and I'm planning
| to switch to a postmarketOS device from near-same generation
| for better security(Only bootloader is proprietary).
|
| IMO in the age of Fairphone, there's no excuse for a non
| easily-repairable phone; Especially one which has community
| interests in mind. I wish you the best on this endeavor.
| mjfisher wrote:
| I'm not a dwarf, but I do have smaller than average hands and
| really struggle to type on a phone one handed. I dropped my
| phone a lot trying to balance it.
|
| Have you come across pop sockets? Small collapsible self-
| adhesive handles for the back of your phone. They've made an
| absolutely massive usability difference to my phone usage
| (although I aim for the smallest handset I can get without
| compromising too much on quality anyway). Total game changer
| Abishek_Muthian wrote:
| I tried pop sockets on the phones of my friends, my fingers
| are too small and stubby that I felt I would drop the phone
| more by fiddling with it so I didn't use them.
|
| Btw checkout Swiftkey's one-hand mode for typing, If you
| haven't already.
| shahar2k wrote:
| please reverse the order you list the phones in your last
| image... no reason other than it irks me that the lowest phone
| in the image is listed highest and vice versa
| stratosmacker wrote:
| I have an iphone SE 2016 because I too felt that new Androids
| were too big, switched in 2019. If too many people are upset at
| the price maybe you could have an Android Mini-a like the Pixel
| line.
|
| I had the first Pebble and have fond memories. I have high
| hopes for this!!!! I also love hardware but I never made it
| stick for work. I was one of the first engineers at Mesur.io,
| but things didn't work out.
|
| My other thought would be to make this highly configurable;
| there is a large cohort of HN crowd who also want an un-Googled
| Android phone, myself included. There are no un-Googled small
| android phones, however with Project Treble many of them can
| run GSIs such as this most popular one
| https://github.com/phhusson/treble_experimentations/releases .
| Of course Lineage OS deserves a mention, maybe you could ship
| with that, build on what the community already offers.
|
| The Unihertz line of phones deserves mention, but also scorn;
| they do NOT support their old hardware at all. The Jelly had 1
| update to Android 8.1 and was left for dead. Additionally the
| system updater software included in the stock ROM was spyware.
| So unfortunately they were written off in my book.
|
| Finally, I would like to see band 71 LTE availability for
| T-Mobile in the US. It really makes a big difference in the
| sticks. Unihertz does not support that, and for that reason I
| am sticking with my iPhone SE 2016 for the moment (until I find
| a small Android phone....)
|
| Can't wait to hear more!
| pasdechance wrote:
| I always wondered about Unihertz. I almost considered one of
| their keyboard devices. Thanks for the heads-up.
| chrischen wrote:
| I want to add another comment here supporting the fact that the
| camera is probably the main device feature I care about, and
| why I end up with a phone fancier and bigger than I'd like, and
| maybe second most important factor is battery life.
| theodric wrote:
| If you can make a phone I love as much as my Pebbles, I'll buy
| nothing else, forever. I guess confirming there's a market for
| it is the first step.
|
| My phone requirements haven't changed much in the last ten
| years. I bought one of the first "phablet" phones with a
| comically oversized 5" screen that got me ribbed by friends
| ("compensating for something eh mate?") Now 5" is at the bottom
| of the available size range. I'm a smallish person/manlet and
| don't need a phone I'm going to drop, but I do need something
| big enough that I can reliably type on it.
|
| I'll gladly support your endeavor. Thanks for taking the
| initiative.
|
| edit: fine with me to make the phone thicc so it has a day+
| battery life. A little thicker is far easier to hold on to,
| anyway!
|
| edit2: I did own a Pixel 6 non-XL for about a day. It was
| large, but the bigger problem was that I found it incredibly
| topheavy, which made it difficult to hold on to. I swapped for
| a used 4a 5G, which is a well-balanced midsized device.
| taude wrote:
| I have a Pixel 4a, and I'm in agreement with you. I'm thinking
| about jumping to an iPhone Mini, however, even Apple doesn't
| seem to be making a new version of that....
| wingworks wrote:
| Yeah, I'm 100% switching to Apple on my next upgrade,
| probably the mini, but it's screen may be a tad too small.
| Either way, I've been with Android since the start, but I'm
| over it. They depreciate so fast.
| rwiggum wrote:
| i dunno what makes you think that. the iphone 13 mini was
| released alongside the other iphone 13's and is the latest
| gen. all signs point to apple releasing a mini version of the
| next iphone, too.
| rsyring wrote:
| The Pixel 5 was just right IMO. I upgraded to a Pixel 6 after
| the fingerprint sensor had problems. The first thing I noticed
| was it was too big. I liked the size of the five much better.
| iagocds wrote:
| What are your thoughs at the Zenphone 8? 5.92 is too big?
| leeoniya wrote:
| im using one now. and yes, i consider it too big to use one-
| handed without dropping it.
|
| also, the physical buttons are way too easy to press. every
| time i hold it, i accidentally press something :(
|
| 5.5 inches is about the limit for me, with pretty avg hands,
| imo.
|
| previous phones were sony xperia compacts. last one was xz2
| compact and felt pretty good, though could have been a tad
| thinner/lighter.
| sudosteph wrote:
| Thank you for taking initiative on this! As a 5'5" woman with
| small hands, I haven't had an android phone that I could use
| with one-hand since my Nexus 5 (which I used for 5 years
| straight). The current android flagships are unwieldy even with
| two-hands for me, and it's been just a quality of living
| downgrade ever since my Nexus 5 broke. I'm not into apple
| products myself, but I know many other women swear by the
| iphone mini since it's the only phone that fits their hands.
| rodgerd wrote:
| I'm a fairly large person (185 cm and decent sized hands),
| but I prefer the mini, and in my Android days used the Xperia
| mini. I don't particularly want a large phone on a day-to-day
| basis.
|
| Unfortunately it seems that it's a niche that doesn't
| generate enough revenue to get broader support.
| zmix wrote:
| I got the feeling, that niche markets could be lucrative if
| the middle man (retail) is left out. The internet is a very
| powerful tool in this regard. It brings together customers
| from all over the world.
| rodgerd wrote:
| I actually think the loss of retailers is part of the
| problem: without places to go and touch and play with
| things, we've become increasingly beholden to reviewers
| and shrill opinion factories to try and evaluate things.
| Niches, especially niches that rely on non-spec driven
| evaluation, wither and die.
|
| 5% of people who buy an iPhone think that the mini is a
| good choice, but literally every review or discussion of
| it is positively hysterical about battery life. If you
| haven't picked one up and handled it, you'd think that it
| offered no merit and was going to shut down 2 hours into
| the day.
| WolfRazu wrote:
| What did you think of the Pixel 5? It's only 0.5cm taller and
| otherwise more or less identical in dimensions.
| sudosteph wrote:
| I used a friend's once and it seemed fine! Taller height is
| generally more manageable. It's the lack of one-handed
| keyboard usability that irritates me the most with modern
| android phones, and that's more of a width thing.
| askvictor wrote:
| A recent discussion on this at my work was centred around the
| notion that large phones don't generally fit in women's
| clothes pockets (when they have pockets), as the pockets tend
| to be smaller. There seems to be an inherent sexism in phone
| design (and clothing design, and many other things).
| shmel wrote:
| Overwhelming majority of women I know always carry a purse.
| I have yet to see a phone that doesn't fit into the
| smallest purse.
| hanche wrote:
| That is very culture dependent, I think. I don't know a
| single woman who usually carries a purse! (I live in
| Norway. And maybe my acquaintances are unusual. But
| still.)
| shmel wrote:
| This is really interesting! I live in the UK. I know
| exactly one woman who doesn't carry a purse and to a big
| degree it is due to an injury.
| askvictor wrote:
| Maybe that's because women's clothing tends not to have
| pockets?
| sudosteph wrote:
| I've been mostly wearing men's pants for the past few years
| to get past the pocket problem (skinny leg men's pants fit
| me pretty well and still have OK pockets). I'm probably in
| the minority though, most women just carry a pocketbook.
| Siira wrote:
| Obviously, these are tradeoffs decided by the capitalistic
| (pseudo)majority. It's not sexism. (And I have hands
| smaller than your average woman.)
| mixxit wrote:
| Pixel 7 dimensions: 155.6 x 73.1 x 8.7mm
|
| Pixel 7 Pro dimensions: 163 x 76.6 x 8.7mm
|
| Pixel 6 dimensions: 158.6 x 74.8 x 8.9 mm
|
| Pixel 6 Pro dimensions: 163.9 x 75.9 x 8.9 mm
| disillusioned wrote:
| The Pixel 6a is supposed to be nearly the same size as the
| Pixel 5, I thought.
| Markoff wrote:
| List of smaller Android phones with decent specs:
|
| Pixel 5 - 144.7 x 70.4 x 8 mm
|
| Samsung S22 - 146 x 70.6 x 7.6 mm
|
| Zenfone 8 - 148 x 68.5 x 8.9 mm (could be higher thanks to
| narrower body)
|
| Xiaomi 12X - 152.7 x 69.9 x 8.2 mm
|
| Samsung S21 - 151.7 x 71.2 x 7.9 mm
|
| S22 has almost identical dimensions as Pixel 5, so there is
| your upgrade. Personally I find all of these overpriced for
| what I need, I would be perfectly fine with 4A specs with
| better battery, so can't justify to upgrading to some of these.
| fbn79 wrote:
| I think Sony Xperia 5 is a premium phone in you spec target
| range
| nicolas_t wrote:
| By the way, I was interested in Beeper but it seems the
| airtables link to sign up blocks any ip addresses from Hong
| Kong. I just get a blank page when I try to sign up. Just
| bringing it up, I have noticed quite a few sites have blanket
| bans on HK ips but it's rather frustrating.
| mikelward wrote:
| I would buy your phone, but I don't really like the iPhone mini
| industrial design. The square edges make it a bit hard to hold.
| I also don't mind if it's a bit larger than iPhone mini. Pixel
| 3/iPhone 13 size is my limit.
|
| If nobody makes something like this, I'll likely switch to
| iPhone 14 when it's released.
| cyxxon wrote:
| At the moment it looks as if there will be no iPhone 14 Mini.
| You don't explicitely mention "Mini" here, but from context
| it looks as if you mean that. Just a heads up (and the reason
| why I bought a 13 Mini even though my old phone was still
| fine).
| winternett wrote:
| I want headphone jack and SD card compatibility back, so I can
| store my audio library somewhere else (more reliable and less
| costly) other than the cloud, but phone makers are bent on
| disappointing customers and customers keep buying whatever junk
| they make and label as overpriced flagship devices.
| akrymski wrote:
| I've never owned a better phone than the Xiaomi Mi 11 Lite 5G
| because it's substantially thinner and lighter than any other
| phone of that size. A smaller screen size may be nice but I've
| realised how much more I really care about the phone being thin
| and light. I don't even notice it in my back pocket. I'm now
| allergic to picking up the new heavy iPhones.
|
| If the smaller screen wouldn't make the phone even thinner I
| probably wouldn't care enough to switch.
| starwind wrote:
| I use an S10e. Love it. It's not small-small but def small by
| todays standards. Probably switching to an iPhone here soon
| jgtrosh wrote:
| I also got an s10e because iirc it was the only smallish
| Android phone with ok specs and ok IP rating (also I avoided
| Chinese brands--though Samsung isn't necessarily everyone's
| choice either). Very comfortable format!
| Markoff wrote:
| Why? S22 has almost same dimensions.
|
| List of smaller Android phones with decent specs:
|
| Pixel 5 - 144.7 x 70.4 x 8 mm
|
| Samsung S22 - 146 x 70.6 x 7.6 mm
|
| Zenfone 8 - 148 x 68.5 x 8.9 mm (could be higher thanks to
| narrower body)
|
| Xiaomi 12X - 152.7 x 69.9 x 8.2 mm
|
| Samsung S21 - 151.7 x 71.2 x 7.9 mm
| nsonha wrote:
| I've gotten the s10e just last month because it's the top
| phone that can still run linux on dex (which is a
| disappointment, but that's a topic for another day), and
| doesn't have those stupid Samsung edge displays (s10+ 12GB
| RAM edition).
|
| I'm not sure those other phones are any better in terms of
| running linux (termux) and those non-samsung ones don't
| even have dex so I don't even know what the high specs are
| for.
|
| S22 should be good once it's no longer the latest phone and
| you can grab at a discount, and maybe Android 13 with KVM
| is out by then.
| binkHN wrote:
| Hear hear! I hope your gadget guy dreams come to fruition again
| and you sell 10 million! I only am chiming in to say a premium
| phone should be water resistant!
| miniwark wrote:
| I think than some two of the prerequisites are the real problem
| :
|
| * Great cameras
|
| * Stock Android OS
|
| There are plenty of recent small smartphones with a display
| under 6". But most of them use Android Go and a not-great
| camera. I have recently tested one, the Logicom Le Wave, a
| 60EUR phone with a 4" display sold in Europe.
|
| During my test, i have find Android Go 11 very reliable. It's
| even more easy to avoid using Google applications and to not
| link the phone to a Google account (by using F-Droid & Aurora
| Store) than Stock Android. There are also nice features for
| managing battery usage. That said the two cameras are indeed
| crap (but i do not take photos with a phone, for this i use a
| real cameras). My main problem with this phone is that it's
| also bad for... phoning: I mean than the sound quality is crap
| too.
|
| I was probably unlucky with my choice, but there are plenty of
| alternatives for 4" to 6" smartphones. Search for "teenage" or
| "unbreakable" phones.
|
| If the real objective is to have a light phone, who fit nicely
| in the pocket, than can be used one-handed and who won't fall
| out of the pocket while bicycling, then this sort of phones are
| perfectly fine. So my question is why the need of a good camera
| and stock Android ?
|
| (For the main point, i agree with you, smartphones are becoming
| ridiculously too big)
| keb_ wrote:
| I agree with you, but the Pixel 5 is barely a year old. Why did
| you move on so quickly?
| m1sta_ wrote:
| Sony dude. The screen ratio makes it feel small in the hand.
| Vladimof wrote:
| My Pixel 3 is just a bit bigger then the iPhone 13 Mini...
| works great with Lineage OS... might have to change the battery
| in a year though (not looking forward to it).
| radec wrote:
| I just replaced the battery on my pixel 3. I also replaced
| the USB C port, because it was cheap and the phone was open.
| It's pretty simple to do, just tedious. I would recommend
| buying a replacement back as well so you don't have to worry
| about keeping the glass intact.
|
| I would love a smaller phone then the pixel 3 but I'll stick
| with this for now, it's my absolute max size.
| Vladimof wrote:
| thanks for the tips, will definitely try to replace the USB
| port and back when I do the battery. Is your phone still
| waterproof?
| radec wrote:
| No not waterproof, but I didn't try very hard. I would
| sort of prefer the phone to be easier to open. I used
| t-7000 glue which seemed really good, the main spot I
| feel like is not waterproof is where the finger print
| reader attaches to the back panel, and the camera lense
| cover.
| Vladimof wrote:
| I might replace the fingerprint sensor if it's not too
| expensive because that's the part I'm having the most
| issues with...
| radec wrote:
| Looks like it's less then 5 bucks. I bought everything
| from injuredgadgets. I'm sure there are other good places
| as well. Can't really review the battery, it's only been
| a couple days, but so far it's good.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Why only aim for 4 hours of screen on time? I understand the
| battery will be smaller too but so is the screen. I'd hope to
| see a bit more. Also, remember that most people won't care
| about thickness so much especially if it's rugged enough to not
| need a case.
|
| But anyway good luck with the project! I backed the first
| Pebble and I'll probably use Beeper once it's fully available.
| You have a history of delivering on your promises. I just want
| to wait a bit to see how this one turns out in detail.
| grishka wrote:
| Yes, I'm as frustrated as you are. I want a no-compromise 4"
| Android phone, comfortably usable with one hand. For me, the
| phone is a communication device for the outside, that's it. I
| hardly use it at home except for calls. My primary device is my
| laptop. I have exactly zero use cases that would benefit from a
| large screen, yet all of my use cases would benefit from being
| able to fully use it one-handed. I don't watch any kind of
| video on my phone because it's a torture either way, and I'm
| okay with smaller fonts to make more things fit on a smaller
| screen.
|
| It's gotten so bad I contemplated porting Android to the iPhone
| SE. Not the complete OS, just the userspace, enough to run
| SystemUI and apps.
|
| Except: a headphone jack is a hard requirement. If a phone has
| no headphone jack, it could as well not exist for me.
| dont__panic wrote:
| Very much the same situation for me. I'm especially
| interested in why Eric doesn't mention the headphone jack --
| does he simply think it isn't a noteworthy feature, and
| assume the phone WILL have the jack? Or does he assume that
| bluetooth is the future and only silly luddites like us care
| about the jack?
|
| I hope Eric eases up on the weirdly specific requirements,
| like dual rear cameras, symmetrical bezels, and a punchout
| front camera, and refocuses on features that make or break
| the phone to end users.
| phinnaeus wrote:
| I agree that the requirements should be pared down to the
| absolute least common denominator, but disagree that the
| headphone jack belongs in that category. You (and GP)
| surely have to recognize that at this point requiring a
| headphone jack is also a niche request.
| hoseja wrote:
| That's just fiction phone manufacturers want to make true
| by repetition.
| jhugo wrote:
| Phone are available with and without headphone jacks. The
| ones without sell better. The ship has sailed, move on.
| rchaud wrote:
| The best-selling mid-range phone in the world was the
| Samsung A51 if I'm not mistaken. I have one and it has a
| headphone jack. It's only the highest-end phones and
| tablets that don't have it.
| jhugo wrote:
| > mid-range phone
|
| I said "phones", without qualification. So while your
| factoid is interesting, it has little to do with what I
| wrote.
| grishka wrote:
| Uhhhh no. Most phones lack headphone jacks these days, so
| _of course_ the ones that still have them would sell
| "worse". The same can be said about screen sizes, there
| are no new phones smaller than 5" "because no one buys
| them". Of course no one buys something that no one sells.
| zmix wrote:
| Bluetooth is the new line-in/out.
| grishka wrote:
| No. This software-controlled madness susceptible to
| interference from microwaves can't possibly be a
| replacement for _just plugging things in_. It 's
| literally a Rube Goldberg machine for sending an audio
| signal between two devices that are a meter apart.
| dont__panic wrote:
| Everyone I know gets annoyed from time to time that their
| modern phones lack the jack.
|
| A lot of people are _willing_ to go without it because
| practically nobody makes smartphones with the jack any
| more. But given the choice of a phone with, say, 2% less
| battery and a jack vs. a phone with a slightly bigger
| battery and slightly better waterproofing... I 'm pretty
| confident what more users would choose.
| grishka wrote:
| The fact that the lack of a headphone jack was normalized
| by Apple with the release of an iPhone 7 doesn't mean
| it's any less of a nonsensical idea. Unlike storage
| media, wireless _can 't_ supersede wired simply because
| each of these options has its own strengths and
| weaknesses and whether one is better than the other is
| highly subjective.
| zmix wrote:
| I am more concerned about the lack of a microSD card slot.
| dont__panic wrote:
| I'd love a microSD card slot as well. I suspect, though,
| that it's less popular a feature than the headphone jack.
| Until 2016, almost every single smartphone had a
| headphone jack. Maybe 50% of phones at best had microSD
| card slots.
|
| That being said... the Xperia compact series is all the
| proof you need that a small phone can have it all. Good
| battery life, flagship camera (though understandably you
| won't have as many sensors as a giant phone), a headphone
| jack, a microSD card, good battery life, waterproofing, a
| fingerprint sensor...
|
| It's such a shame that people continually insist that
| technology we HAD in 2012-2016 is impossible today. All I
| want is an Xperia Z3 Compact with modern bands and
| software support.
| coldpie wrote:
| The USB-C-to-3.5mm dongles are bothersome, but they're not
| that bad. You buy one for each headphone you use, and expect
| to replace each of them once or twice a year. It sucks, but
| it has stopped the headphone jack being a /hard requirement/
| and instead a nice-to-have.
| zmix wrote:
| Why is the headphone jack so important? These days there are
| very good wireless earbuds. Except as FM antenna or to plug
| into legacy devices...
| dont__panic wrote:
| It just works. Bluetooth does not.
| RugnirViking wrote:
| Because I own nice headphones that I like to listen with, I
| like that they never run out, I like that I can plug them
| between my phone and my computer as I please instead of
| praying to the fickle bluetooth gods that they will sync.
|
| It's not that I have never owned wireless headphones, in
| fact I am literally forced against my will to own and use
| them and am wearing them as I type. They have some
| convenience, but adding a headphone jack doesn't mean not
| being able to use bluetooth headphones - I should just be
| able to use both.
| hansel_der wrote:
| because it works (TM) everytime, no compatibility issues
| whatsoever.
| mc4ndr3 wrote:
| Bluetooth is shit.
| gambiting wrote:
| >>These days there are very good wireless earbuds.
|
| Yes, and now I ended up in an idiotic situation where I
| have to have a pair for every device I own, because
| switching bluetooth connections is an unbelivable pain in
| the ass. No such problems with wired - you only need one
| pair, you plug them in, they work, end of story.
|
| Not to mention issues like audio sync, which is just broken
| as hell. As an example, using top of the line
| headphones(sony MX4s) + a top of the line phone(Galaxy
| S21), audio isn't in sync with anything other than youtube.
| Playing games? Enjoy hearing your shots 1s after you fire
| them. And using them with windows? Now _everything_ is
| slightly out of sync, because windows is a flaming pile of
| garbage when it comes to bluetooth audio.
| elxr wrote:
| Because:
|
| 1. I already have nice earphones, I don't want to spend
| another $200-$250 for no reason (the going price of most
| wireless earbuds I've been interested in)
|
| 2. Way lower latency than bluetooth.
|
| 3. I have too many things to charge as it is. The reduced
| anxiety of having 1 less device to charge is worth
| something to me. I know USB-C to 3.5mm dongles exist, but a
| headphone jack is still better.
|
| 4. I oppose the idea of companies artificially taking out
| basic hardware features (that we've always had for 10+
| years) just so they can force more disposable consumer
| goods to their users year after year.
| toss1 wrote:
| Reliability (no dropping 'pairing', no interference)
|
| Security (no practical eavesdropping)
|
| Simplicity (just plug the damn thing in and get a hard
| connection; the connected device is much simpler)
|
| Options (nothing prevents having both Bluetooth _AND_
| headphone port)
|
| The only reason it's eliminated is it's convenient for the
| manufacturers and they try to sell it as if we all want it,
| clearly a marketing lie.
| seydor wrote:
| I have a hunch a lot of people are not upgrading because there
| are no new phones under 6 inch now.
| [deleted]
| s17n wrote:
| I just gave up and bought an iphone, good luck all
| rationalfaith wrote:
| sabujp wrote:
| > Extrapolating from past models, the Pixel 10 will be roughly
| the size of California
|
| Thanks for that
| alkonaut wrote:
| "Sub 6 inches"
|
| Isn't 6" about the size of an iPhonex/XR/11 which is a huge slab
| of a phone?
| qwertfisch wrote:
| Yes, very strange. GSMarena lists it as 6.1 inch, and its
| length of 150mm (5.9") might be acceptable, but the width (76mm
| / 3") is large.
|
| Comparing with my Samsung A40 (5.9" diagonally), the latter is
| much smaller, and also lighter:
| https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9320&idPhone2...
|
| Edit: Both smartphones have the same display aspect ratio, but
| the XR seems to have thicker edges. The screen-to-body-ratio is
| only 79%, compared to 85.5% on the A40. So it must be wider and
| higher.
| aucls wrote:
| toss1 wrote:
| >>Cameras must be as good as Pixel 5 -- must have great low light
| performance >>2 rear cameras (regular and wide angle)
|
| Upgrade that to as good as Samsung S22 Ultra w/10x Optical zoom;
| also great macro capability, so make that 3 cameras.
|
| >> 128/256gb Storage Fine, but I'd also like to see removable
| storage
|
| >>4 hours Screen On Time (SOT) I'm looking more for 6h - I'd
| rather have a thicker/heavier device and longer battery
|
| While I like my smaller Samsung GS8, I'm upgrading to the S22U
| and not the smaller S22 specifically for the camera and bigger
| battery (and the fact that the GS8 is no longer supported with
| upgrades). I'm not sure how I'll like larger form factor, but I'm
| sure I'll love the larger screen too, so trade-offs.
|
| EDIT: Basically, I want a full set of top-of-the-line flagship
| features in a small form factor.
|
| It used to be that smaller was extra, as it required more
| engineering, not smaller is cheaper like kiddie-plate food
| portions. I suppose we'll have to wait until the foldable formats
| become more unbreakable/reliable and they upgrade all the
| features to top-of-the-line.
| [deleted]
| lazaruzLong wrote:
| I have old eyes - I want need and have a Giant sized phone.
|
| My wife just purchased an new iPhone SE2. I truly cannot use the
| phone the screen is too little for me.
| otikik wrote:
| When Android went big, I went iPhone.
| onedr0p wrote:
| What happens when iPhone goes big? It's only a matter of time
| due to sales.
| otikik wrote:
| I'll still pick the least shitty smallest one that I can get.
| camillomiller wrote:
| Asus Zenfone 8.
| mxuribe wrote:
| My favorite statements from this post...
|
| > ...An Android phone (with Beeper for iMessage) might be an
| adequate alternative...
|
| ...and...
|
| > ...Extrapolating from past models, the Pixel 10 will be roughly
| the size of California
| kuon wrote:
| I'd like a smaller phone too, but with a bigger battery.
|
| If I browse the web in the, I cannot use my phone to buy my train
| ticket as you have to show the QR code and 4G is killing the
| battery really quickly.
|
| My current phone is a one plus 5T and the new phone could have
| 3cm less in height and 1 in width while being 4 time thicker.
| Ideally I'd like addon battery to come back, you remember those
| nokia 3310 with the added huge battery? I want that. Now I have
| an external battery, but I need a cable and it's not that
| practical.
|
| As a more general comment, I'd like "design" to be less
| important. I don't care if my phone is a dumb cube like shape. I
| want function.
| haunter wrote:
| Zenfone 8 https://www.asus.com/Mobile/Phones/ZenFone/Zenfone-8/
|
| LineageOS supported https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/sake/
| AiAi wrote:
| There's an issue with ZenFone 8 often referred to as "ram dump"
| which Asus hasn't addressed, and caused many phones to brick
| suddenly:
| https://zentalk.asus.com/en/discussion/comment/208476/
| bdorn wrote:
| Pixel 5 is good, I got a 6 and returned it because it was
| massive. Hoping they return to this this form factor & add the
| rear fingerprint sensor back.
| akmarinov wrote:
| The article person might want one, but people don't. That's why
| the iPhone Mini doesn't sell and is being axed.
| lkxijlewlf wrote:
| It will return in a couple years as the new SE.
| MrRiddle wrote:
| 5% sold were Mini. But I guess let's axe it if it cuts into
| profit just a bit.
| eddieroger wrote:
| It is a business, though, and if 5% of sales cost
| disproportionately more than 5% to produce, market, support,
| and all those things, then it's fair to say "it doesn't sell"
| and axe it.
| pmlnr wrote:
| And together with the SE devices?
| richardwhiuk wrote:
| About 6, maybe 7%.
| masklinn wrote:
| Sadly yes, if the Mini means additional costs and only
| captures users which'd have bought your phone anyway it's
| just overhead.
|
| Sad to say but ruthless supply chain and product range
| efficiency is one of the pillars of Apple's return.
| zuhsetaqi wrote:
| I wouldn't call 10 m a year ,,doesn't sell". It might not sell
| like the bigger ones but there's definitely a market for it
| moffkalast wrote:
| Clearly not enough to warrant a production line, otherwise
| there would be some offerings for it from some Android maker.
| narag wrote:
| Clearly? Are you sure?
|
| Paraphrasing _Contact_ : First rule in cell phone building:
| why build small when you can build twice as big at twice
| the price?
| moffkalast wrote:
| I mean it's not like this has been a sudden shift, phones
| have been getting gradually larger over the years. I
| seriously doubt manufacturers would be using more
| materials to make a smaller amount of larger phones
| instead of more smaller ones if the larger versions
| didn't sell that much more.
| narag wrote:
| Sure, I just meant that maybe smaller phones _are_
| profitable, just less profitable than bigger ones, so
| companies incentivize the latest.
|
| I've given up. My plan is buying a dumbphone until Pine
| is usable by me.
| rplnt wrote:
| Or is it that marketing has been telling customers that
| bigger is better for the past decade? I wouldn't give too
| much credit to an average consumer.
| Gigachad wrote:
| There is no marketing. Bigger is just better. I got the
| regular sized iPhone and every time I pick up the pro max
| it feels good. It's visually more striking, it's nicer to
| use. It's just a little harder to hold but with two hands
| is still fine.
| dschuetz wrote:
| Speak for yourself.
| tech2 wrote:
| The Sony Xperia Z5 Compact was my previous phone that I'd had
| from 2015 until mid last year. It was close to perfect.
| Waterproof, headphone socket, SD slot. If a new version of that
| were released with less of a screen border than the original I'd
| buy it in a heartbeat.
|
| Thickness could stay the same too, I'd like the additional
| runtime rather than everything needing to be wafer-thin.
| irrational wrote:
| I recently saw an android phone (I can't remember the name of it)
| that folded in half (how the screen doesn't crack in half after
| being folded and unfolded hundreds of times is beyond me). When
| it is folded in half it is quite narrow, but when unfolded it
| looks to be the size of a mini tablet. After seeing that I
| couldn't help but wonder why Apple didn't create a similar thing
| (patents I presume). It is like the best of both worlds, both a
| phone and a tablet all in one.
| posterboy wrote:
| I too looked for a small phone and left disappointed. I think
| there are two or three notable factors.
|
| 1. Bigger chassis allows a bigger battery, longer up-time. This
| is probably the biggest issue.
|
| 2. Having gotten used to a 6+" for a while, the small ones appear
| almost too small. Books are on average bigger than that for a
| good reason.
|
| 3. Very naively speaking, bigger looks better and thus more
| expensive. Users are therefore more willing to spend more money,
| whereas a smaller phone will look disproportionately expensive
| and, as per the first point, now less powerful.
|
| Sony was the last one other than apple to try that, as far as I
| can tell.
|
| However, cheaper smartphones still exist in that space, they just
| don't come with newer hardware.
| brokenkebab2 wrote:
| I have a question: how do you cope with on-screen keyboard, when
| screen is small? I'd like to have a phone which doesn't take too
| much space in a pocket, but I found that below 5.5" I have too
| much struggle typing. Should we ask for a physical kbd (say N900
| style) if we want a new phone anyway?
| Marsymars wrote:
| I have a somewhat larger phone, but I just don't type much on
| my phone. I only really use it for communication of logistics
| with people if I'm not home, or typing in addresses to navigate
| to, etc. Otherwise I wait until I have access to a real
| keyboard.
|
| Due to my aversion of taking my electronics over international
| borders, I went on vacation a few years ago with a flip phone
| (LTE still), and found that T9 was too inconvenient for even
| basic logistics, so got a secondary Android phone after that.
| CarVac wrote:
| I use MessagEase, which is just fantastic for quick and
| accurate typing.
| persedes wrote:
| I have a 3" inch jelly2 and typing, while often annoying for
| something like urls, is overall ok. For regular texting text to
| speech works pretty well and the slide to type feature is
| pretty solid too.
|
| But to be fair I bought it to spend less time on my phone, and
| the annoyances that it does have make the choice easy lol
| hammock wrote:
| Swipe typing.
| erohead wrote:
| This is the way
| whs wrote:
| I used 9x4 Thai keyboard layout on my 3.7" Nexus One. I
| mastered it and reached 40wpm without autocorrect/suggestions.
| After upgrading to 4.7" Nexus 4 I found that the screen is too
| big and I'd have to use swipe keyboard. I don't think I ever
| reached 40wpm again.
|
| Then again, that was when in high school. Maybe my fingers grew
| bigger.
| dhzhzjsbevs wrote:
| It's not going to happen.
|
| The only people who like small form factor phones are tall men.
|
| Every other demographic still needs two hands for a 5" phone and
| thus opts for more screen real-estate almost all of the time.
| hedora wrote:
| 5" is still too big though. The iPhone SE screen is a fine size
| at 4.7"
| dhzhzjsbevs wrote:
| iPhone 8/se is the same size as a mini isn't it? Just smaller
| screen. Personally 5" screen size is one hand usable for me.
| It's. Little stretch for one corner but otherwise it's fine.
|
| I've just resided myself at this point. Sticking with a
| bigger phone. Currently enjoying 3 day battery life off one
| charge with my mid range Samsung.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| I've been using my original pixel 2 since the day it came out.
| Still works like a charm. Fast, battery is good, small and the
| camera is great. I've been looking at getting an iPhone mini but
| what I get for the price doesn't seem to be that much better than
| what I have now.
| melenaboija wrote:
| I used to love small phones since I started having short
| sightedness problems.
|
| Cheaper, lighter, easy to carry on, ... was mostly what I cared
| about phones until I realized that my sight is getting worst and
| how important to me is to have bigger fonts.
| rendall wrote:
| How about a premium greater-than EUR1000 phone of any size that
| does not have unremovable cruft on it? Doesn't badger you every
| week or so with self-serving notifications and advertising. Hmm,
| Samsung?
| soheil wrote:
| Umm.. there are literally 100s of small Android phones:
|
| https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/small_android_phone...
| sanitycheck wrote:
| Set the size slider to max 5 (6 is not small), set the date
| slider to min 2020 and there's.. One. From a manufacturer I've
| never heard of.
|
| There actually are more than one (gsmarena is better for this
| search), but not many and as far as I can tell none with wide
| availability or much hope of getting security updates etc far
| into the future. The best option at the moment seems to be
| ebaying an old phone that's supported by Lineage and hoping it
| doesn't die.
| nix0n wrote:
| Without a 3.5mm headphone jack, I would have to carry wireless
| earbuds, which would defeat the purpose.
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| With a 3.5mm jack you would have to carry wired earbuds, which
| would defeat the purpose...?
| littlecranky67 wrote:
| You just need a small adapter cable (1-2inch long) as on the
| iPhone, which is a fraction of your headphone.
| interestica wrote:
| The thing I never understood about the headphone jack and its
| disappearance: it doesn't need to be a jack. It need only be
| three contact points. You could have it on the outside rim of a
| phone and have a magnetic sheath hold the headphone pin to it.
| But I suppose it's not just about getting rid of the jack
| itself but also any DAC component? (But, isn't it doing that
| anyway for the speaker?)
| Kirby64 wrote:
| The amplifier used for headphones is very different than what
| is used to drive a speaker. It's a totally different
| component. Also, remember, it's doing much more than just
| pumping audio out. Modern 3.5mm jacks on phones are 4 pin,
| generally, and you have to do the following (or, at least
| most of it):
|
| * Detect if something is plugged in
|
| * Detect if the thing plugged in is a 3 pin (stereo
| speakers), or 4 pin (stereo speakers, plus microphone)
|
| * Detect what type of 4 pin configuration is connected (there
| are 2 standards, CTIA and OMTP)
|
| * Detect button presses from attached headphones (volume
| up/down, pause/play)
|
| * Detect the type of headphones connected (do I want to use
| the high impedance driver, or the low impedance driver)
|
| And obviously: play stereo audio and record mono audio.
|
| There's also some lesser used features that are sometimes
| supported over 3.5mm:
|
| * Video output (!!)
|
| * Antenna input, for use for FM radio
|
| * Stereo audio input
|
| * Optical out (not through 3.5mm TRRS, but it is at the end
| of the 3.5mm jack... Apple used to use these in their macbook
| pros)
| [deleted]
| einr wrote:
| _The amplifier used for headphones is very different than
| what is used to drive a speaker. It 's a totally different
| component._
|
| It generally isn't, no. Looking at a teardown of the iPhone
| 5 for example (just the first phone I thought to check)
| there is a single Cirrus Logic class D amplifier chip that
| handles both the speaker and headphone outputs. I don't
| know of and cannot find any phones that have a dedicated
| amplifier chip for the headphone output although I'm sure
| one exists somewhere.
| Kirby64 wrote:
| Headphone drivers are generally built directly into the
| audio CODEC because they don't tend to be very large
| whereas the amplifiers used to drive a speaker tend to be
| standalone because they drive significantly more power
| than what you drive headphones with.
|
| In any more modern system, you use a different component
| or subsystem for each. iPhone 5 is a pretty old example
| and speaker technology has come a LONG way in phones.
| These days, you're driving watts of power into your phone
| speakers, any headphones driven with that much power
| wouldn't last very long.
|
| Even very high end headphone amplifiers (external, chunky
| ones) tend to be rated for around 1W max. Typical is much
| lower, in the 100mW or less range. Either way, you aren't
| listening at that high of power unless you want hearing
| damage.
| innocenat wrote:
| We have (had?) that. It's called USB-C Audio Accessory Mode.
| Bud wrote:
| DAC is still there. Current iPhones can still use wired
| headphones, via the Lightning/headphone jack adapter. That
| adapter was included free in the box for a while. Now it's $9
| or something.
| einr wrote:
| The adapter includes/is a DAC. The Lightning port is fully
| digital and cannot carry analog audio.
| antihero wrote:
| You can get very very good audio with something like the UTWS5
| and then you can use top end IEMs.
| high_pathetic wrote:
| Aw, to be young again. Ocular myopathy is a thing, unfortunately.
| moelf wrote:
| Xperia 5 III
| mg wrote:
| I maintain this chart of small Android phones:
|
| https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/small_android_phone...
|
| You can filter by specs to see how close you can get to your
| dream phone. There are quite a few available on the market that
| match the 5.5" screen size of the iPhone 13 Mini. Even by the big
| manufacturers like Samsung and Google. Like the Pixel 3. Which
| was introduced 4 years ago though.
|
| In general, phones have been becoming larger and larger over the
| years. So this chart has been becoming more and more sparse over
| time.
|
| But recently, the voices demanding small phones seem to become
| louder and more frequent.
|
| I am curious to see if it will reverse the trend.
|
| At some point, I will probably make a graph that shows the change
| in average screensize over time.
| richardwhiuk wrote:
| Louder, but not more numerous.
| pavon wrote:
| Missing Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact - the most recent (and
| apparently last) small phone that Sony made.
| mg wrote:
| Thanks, will add it.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| No Jelly2?
| mg wrote:
| Good point! Will add it.
| shaunpud wrote:
| Only two countries in the world, apparently
| foresto wrote:
| Sony Xperia XZ1 is on there, but not the Xperia XZ1 Compact?
| minroot wrote:
| There must be no notch or punch hole camera.
| technovader wrote:
| Maybe its just me but the Pixel 5 is the perfect size.
|
| I don't find the iPhone mini being any better in terms of size.
| They are both usable with one hand.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I've got an iPhone 13 Mini. I brought it, because I suspect that
| it will be the last small-format phone Apple makes. I figure it's
| good for a couple of years.
|
| I have a _lot_ of Apple gear (I develop Apple native apps). I
| tend to use the Mini phone, and the Mini iPad, the most. The rest
| of the stuff sits around, until it 's testing/screenshot time.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| > 4 hours Screen On Time (SOT)
|
| > Unlockable bootloader
|
| > NFC
|
| You could've kept things simple and attracted a larger audience
| by just saying you want a smaller phone.
|
| This reads like an over passionate CS freshman.......
|
| "Dude wouldnt it b cool if it ran Arch Linux"
|
| I've rarely heard net positive reviews for phones from no name
| Chinese brands like One Plus or whatever that thing is.
|
| There just needs to be a smaller modern phone, that's all. No TTL
| connectors, no OCAML based user environment.
|
| I promise there are enough frustrated kids and adults in the
| planet to sign a strictly smaller modern phone petition.
|
| Unfortunately the Smartphone world is pretty dominantly Apple,
| Google and Samsung.
|
| Hopefully the petition will raise notice, but we all know
| companies rarely operate this way.
| jiffygist wrote:
| Unlockable bootloader is criterium number 0 for me, even when
| recommending phones to people who will never want to change
| firmware. I would be happy if manufacturers stated this in
| phone specs.
| dncornholio wrote:
| I'm still running the Sony Xperia Compact Z1. Have upgraded it
| twice with an iPhone 7 and a OnePlus. Gave both away away to
| people who enjoyed them WAY and WAY more than I did.
|
| Think I'm going to carry my Z1 till it literally stops working.
| So far, I can still do 1 to 1.5 days with my battery easily.
| twofornone wrote:
| I wish they would release a modernized phone with a decent
| processor and camera in the form factor of a pixel 2.
|
| How much compute does the average person even need from their
| phone these days? Aren't most people just browsing the internet
| and checking emails?
| sunflowerdeath wrote:
| And I want IPad Mini-sized Android tablet, but for some reason
| all compact tablets have terrible performance, and because of
| this you have to use a large phone to watch videos or play games.
| aceazzameen wrote:
| This thread is making me miss the original Motorola Droid. It was
| the perfect pocket size phone with a slide out physical keyboard.
| I hated the day I upgraded away because the storage was too small
| to keep up with app sizes. Give me that same phone with
| modernized internal specs and a decent camera. I'd buy it again
| in a heartbeat.
| theandrewbailey wrote:
| I guess the author doesn't consider SD slots and headphone jacks
| premium.
| NelsonMinar wrote:
| Battery size is a lot of what's driving the escalation of phones.
| Phones keep getting bigger, with bigger batteries, but usable
| time stays about constant. I'd love a renewed emphasis on lower
| power / longer battery life without having to make the thing so
| big it doesn't fit in my hand comfortably.
| asddubs wrote:
| my dream would be a small linux phone (probably a couple years
| down the line once the software is a bit more stable), but I
| would settle for a small android phone as a primary device, to
| stay a bit more realistic in terms of market share. while we're
| sharing pipe dreams, i would love a physical keyboard like the
| n900 as well. i used my nexus 5 for 7 years or so, when i
| replaced it i didn't even realize there no longer were any phones
| of that size at all.
|
| I don't even need premium, i just want anything at all. I really
| do hate my current phone, i can't even type on it properly with
| one hand, it's too big. I may begrudgingly end up replacing it
| with an iphone, the only reason I haven't yet is that it's locked
| down and I would miss f-droid, and the linux compatibility sucks.
| but of course android has its own problems (namely google trying
| to squeeze as much data as possible out of you, and making it as
| hard as they can to turn off the various settings related to that
| buried in different setting sub-menus)
| pmlnr wrote:
| https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-pinephone-pro-keyboard-...
| asddubs wrote:
| I got one, and I love it! But it's not really a phone at that
| point
| nsonha wrote:
| I've just got the galaxy s10e, a phone released 3 years ago, for
| this reason. The new s22 is also only slightly bigger than it.
| Samsung seems to now have this form factor as the baseline of
| their line up, with the top one added extra things that don't
| matter such as bigger, higher display frame rates and curved
| edges (whoever came up with this stupid trend needs to go to
| jail, but it's good that Samsung thinks that's a "feature", so it
| sells normal screens at a discount)
| underlines wrote:
| I bought one of the first mainstream Phablets, the Samsung Galaxy
| Note 1 and everyone laughed at me. Now people all own larger
| devices.
| denysvitali wrote:
| Maybe in a few years you'll be able to have something like
| Project Sandcastle for the iPhone Mini.
|
| https://projectsandcastle.org/
| laserbeam wrote:
| I am in the same bucket, recently switched to an iPhone mini.
|
| I did make a ruckus about small phones not existing. I have found
| 1-2 supporters of the idea within the dozens of people I
| complained to. Based on my small sample size I'd say 3-5% of the
| market would be willing to buy a small phone. A much smaller
| percentage would be actively looking for a small phone. I think
| those are optimistic numbers (sadly).
| atoreno wrote:
| Can't wait for a mini android phone
| encryptluks2 wrote:
| I want a flagship Sidekick-style phone :(
| [deleted]
| dskloet wrote:
| I would buy this if it was dual SIM (nano+eSIM) but honestly
| iPhone 13 mini is still too big for my taste. No wider than
| iPhone 4 would be ideal for me. Fine if it's thicker to fit a
| decent battery.
|
| I'm currently using a Pixel 3a with multiple cracks in the
| screen. Willing to drop a lot of money on a phone but there isn't
| a single phone I want.
| lenn_eavy wrote:
| iPhone SE 2020 was a reason I switched from the Android. I have
| dedicated tools for my hobbies and I am using phone for messages,
| simple games, navigation and reading stuff mostly. These bases
| are covered by both sides, but only one had the form factor I was
| after. Now I'm considering iPad 6 Mini to be my next planner,
| bullet journal, occasional article reader and note taker. Having
| small form factor phones can certainly be an entry point to the
| device ecosystem for some people.
| d3nj4l wrote:
| Man this website took me back. Something about the layout and
| design reminds me of websites that sold you shit in the oughties,
| like the ones some dude would set up hawking his supplement line
| or whatever.
| meonmyphone wrote:
| This is something I've been wishing for a while - some kind of
| initiative to help make a small Android device available. So I'm
| happy to see this, especially when it's backed by someone with
| influence in the industry.
|
| The author's motivations don't see that strong, though. I mean,
| if Apple improved the notification system and the file
| management, would this project exist? Or is it that unlikely to
| happen in a few years?
|
| Anyway, I really hope the project works. I really do. And I'm
| willing to contribute the way I can.
|
| I've been trying to make the switch to Android for years, but
| couldn't find a decent device, despite few attempts over the
| years.
| jmprspret wrote:
| For me the pixel 4a kind of filled this niche for a while. The 6a
| seems significantly bigger.
| barfingclouds wrote:
| I went from iPhone 13 mini, to iPhone SE 2020 and was way
| happier. That screen was too big and no home button sucks. I
| yesterday just bought an iPhone SE 1 (shape of the iPhone 5s)
| (the smallest/oldest phone AT&T will support because of 3g
| removal). Excited to try it out
| TheGoodBarn wrote:
| I jumped at getting the iPhone 13 mini immediately and haven't
| looked back. I remember having an iPhone 5 and how much I loved
| the formfactor for the same reasons OP mentions.
|
| Sure the battery sucks and the phone locks up from too many
| things happening sometimes, but those are perfectly fine trade
| offs for a phone that fits into my life and isn't my life.
|
| When I bought my 13 mini I also bought the new iPad mini to have
| a larger device for content consumption and the combo is lovely
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| That's a shame - I heard the 13 Mini had acceptable battery
| life. And for someone that doesn't make their phone their life
| that's especially surprising.
| sph wrote:
| I don't make my phone my life, and the 12 Mini has enough
| battery for me. I charge it every other day, but I have to
| admit it feels it holds less charge than my old iPhone 8.
|
| I only use it for Whatsapp, bathroom break HN and a few calls
| a week. Everything else I do from my PC. Also, performance is
| great for me, I'm not planning on running games or k8s on my
| mobile.
|
| EDIT: looks like you're talking about the 13 mini, I got the
| 12 mini, which IIRC has similar battery life complaints. Not
| sure if it got worse with the latest iteration.
| dont__panic wrote:
| Word on the street (and physical evidence of the larger
| battery in the 13 Mini) is a strong consensus that the 13
| mini has better battery life than the 12 mini.
|
| I've never heard anyone complain about the performance of
| the 13 mini before, maybe there's something funky going on
| with the OP's phone.
| MockObject wrote:
| I've had my 13 Mini since they dropped. My battery is fine,
| always lasts the day with overnight charging. I'm constantly
| playing podcasts, talking on Signal, and have the dynamic
| weather service running.
| TheGoodBarn wrote:
| It's not THAT bad, it just depends on usage. Lately I have
| been using my phone a lot more, and just spending an hour or
| two endlessly scrolling in the morning it goes from fully
| charged to maybe 50%. If it is on standby most of the day, it
| will last most of the day.
|
| That being said, I also play golf and use a Golf GPS tracker,
| Pokemon Go, and social media most of the day. Coming from an
| iPhone 11 Pro which had incredible battery life, it is a
| major change. BUT, the lower battery life is manageable. I
| have external battery packs, I prepare for these types of
| things. I can make it last when I need it to.
| efficax wrote:
| battery life is good on the mini for me, as for locking up, not
| sure why you would see that, it's got the same chipset as the
| non-mini iphone 13
| TheGoodBarn wrote:
| Haha I play Pokemon Go, battery life is like 6 hours TOPs. I
| charge it periodically throughout the day, just hover between
| 20-80 percent.
|
| ---
|
| Locking up, I think it comes from moving from my old iPhone
| 11 Pro to the non-pro variant. I felt a little spoiled with
| the Pro model.
| richardwhiuk wrote:
| Fairly sure battery estimation is rubbish. I've seen huge
| amounts of battery life between 20% and 0%.
| coolgoose wrote:
| Happy Samsung s10e reporting :)
| productceo wrote:
| A prudent business will respond to what people do rather than
| what people say.
| bmacho wrote:
| Can it be lightweight (<100g) and wide (16/10 or wider) as well?
| Pretty please?
|
| edit: also buttons, like back, home, menu and search? edit2: like
| my ~ZTE v970 [1], but capable of newer https standards. Even
| teddit refuses to serve me content :D
|
| 1: https://www.gsmarena.com/zte_grand_x_v970-reviews-4597.php
| adwf wrote:
| Latest Motorola Razr foldable scratches that itch for me. I know
| it doesn't fit into the mid-price category, but I finally have my
| pocket space back again!
| DevKoala wrote:
| I want a smaller iPhone Mini.
|
| The small screen discourages me from wasting too much time on it
| and using it only when needed.
| [deleted]
| grwthckrmstr wrote:
| I jokingly tell my friends that i want to start a phone company.
|
| It'll just sell one phone.
|
| aPhone.
|
| It's, a phone.
|
| Not aPhone 1, aPhone 2. That's not minimalist.
|
| Just aPhone, 2022 edition. And so on.
|
| It's aPhone for people who like regular sized phones. 5.8"
| display max, 3-4ths of the way to flagship specs, a $500 ish
| price tag.
|
| Pair it with near stock Android with minor adjustments only, and
| i really think the aPhone could be a hit and help build a (not a
| billion-dollar) multi-million dollar company.
| richardwhiuk wrote:
| So the aPhone 2022 then?
| OJFord wrote:
| With small defined as sub-6" I can _almost_ recommend my Nokia
| 3.4. (I measure about 3 /16" over.) I remember finding it a
| surprisingly tall/narrow ratio when I first got it though, so
| maybe it's suitable depending on what bothers you over 6".
| mywacaday wrote:
| I recently discovered the one handed feature on my Note10+ that
| allows the shrinking of the screen to whatever size you want.
| Don't use it but might be useful to someone.
| https://www.samsung.com/africa_en/support/mobile-devices/how...
| ajot wrote:
| LineageOS used to have this feature, by swiping the navbar.
| Unfortunately, it was based on some hackery by HTC or Huawei
| and it's not feasible anymore.
| mywacaday wrote:
| It's the same on the note10, swipe down to activate.
| bobbiechen wrote:
| One interesting feature on my Samsung Galaxy S9 is "one-handed
| mode", which shrinks the screen area to about the size of the
| iPhone Mini screen, leaving black bars along one side and the
| top. It's interesting that they're aware of the issue and have a
| software solution.
|
| One-handed mode is decent when holding the phone parallel to the
| ground supported by your hand, but still doesn't cut it for
| holding the phone up since you'll need to grip the entire phone
| body anyways.
| Cupprum wrote:
| Today i just saw this video about small phones. The only bad
| thing is that the camera is pretty bad :(
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUCULGEmgTo
| odiroot wrote:
| I'm holding onto my XZ2C tight until some manufacturer wakes up
| and starts producing compacts again.
| mormegil wrote:
| I was holding onto my XZ1C. Two months ago, I bought Samsung
| S22: it is bigger, but acceptably so, and there seems to be no
| smaller option in the foreseeable future, anyway.
| quartus wrote:
| I'm still using the Pixel 4, I'm happy with it. I tried the Pixel
| 6 but it's just too gigantic, and the camera strip sticks out too
| much, so I went back to the 4
| HomeGear wrote:
| > For Apple, 10m phones is peanuts. But for an independent
| company 10m units per year would be spectacular. If Apple kills
| the Mini, those people will need a new home.
|
| Hm, I'd suspect most of the customers are more attached to the
| Apple iPhone than the form. I'm one, but, I could be wrong!
| cheeze wrote:
| Agree. Some folks want small phones, but generally iphone users
| want... an iphone.
| mikestew wrote:
| I have an iPhone 13 Mini. If no equivalent exists when I go to
| replace it, then I'll buy iPhone Pro Giant Ass Max and shove it
| the man bag.
|
| But I'll carry a MacBook as my phone before I'll go back to
| Android, no matter how small they make 'em.
| Beauseph wrote:
| Here you go. https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-announces-
| galaxy-xco...
| teekert wrote:
| +1, I switched to iPhone 12 mini from a OnePlus3. But, I'm not
| going back anymore. Let's hope when this thing gives out in 5
| years my watch can do all of this.
|
| I always thought iPhone would be restrictive. But I have my
| selfhosted apps and my wireguard (but ffs let me tunnel my
| hotspot connected clients through the vpn Apple!).
| therealmarv wrote:
| Pixel 6a, Xiaomi 12, Sony Xperia 10 IV. Won't get any smaller.
| https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?&idPhone2=11285&idPhon...
| rplnt wrote:
| That's 2cm on my current phone (XZ1 compact) which also has
| relatively big bezel and it's right at the limit of being able
| to be controlled with one hand.
| morsch wrote:
| S22 is a bit smaller, still, but in the same class.
| markdoubleyou wrote:
| You can get a little smaller. Asus Zenfone 8 has a 5.9" screen.
| qwertfisch wrote:
| Samsung A40 had a nice 5.9 screen with full HD+ resolution.
| Sold for under 250EUR. Unfortunately Samsung only releases
| such a phone once every five years. The successors were
| bigger, more expensive and less powerful.
| dotancohen wrote:
| I'd love a small Android phone, with one caveat: A built-in
| stylus. I'm stuck with the huge Samsung Note series, or the
| Samsung S22 which is no smaller.
|
| I've used external stylii and my fingers too, but absolutely
| nothing comes close to the experience of just sliding out the
| stylus which is always there and using it.
| dr_ wrote:
| I wonder how much of the limited sales of the iPhone mini could
| be attributed to the branding? What if Apple were to drop the
| mini and make this the base iPhone, with the other models being
| Plus, Pro, Max? Margins may be poorer with Mini, so it likely
| won't happen, but I feel mini sales could be much higher if they
| wanted them to be.
| mgkimsal wrote:
| > Margins may be poorer with Mini,
|
| But they don't necessarily have to be. We've never had an
| option where, for the same price, you could choose screen
| sizes. There's a sizable portion of people for whom larger
| phones are simply difficult to use. Would I have paid an extra
| $50 for my iPhone 12 mini? Yep, because I was buying based on
| the size, not the price.
|
| This is so weird compared to 20 years ago, where the smaller
| the phone was, the more expensive it was. The big bulky phones
| were a sign that you couldn't afford the smaller one. A few
| friends joke that I couldn't afford a 'real' phone when I pull
| out my 12 mini, which... is nuts because I bought it outright,
| and a couple of them worry about 'when can I upgrade? oh, let
| me check how many more payments I have on this current model'.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| That's not a totally fair comparison, because before
| smartphones there was no inherent advantage to a phone being
| larger. You got exactly the same features either way, so
| miniature was premium. Now the big screen is the premium
| feature.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| Yeah you can imagine two purposes for the mini:
|
| 1. Cheaper iPhone
|
| 2. You don't want to carry a big iPhone and you have a Mac/iPad
| nearby anyway for anything complicated so a big phone is
| unnecessary.
|
| The second case should motivate wanting eg their 'pro' cameras
| in the small phone but the first case motivates making it cheap
| and low-margin. You can also imagine a world where apple
| markets a mini phone as also being an optional companion to a
| bigger phone, but they already have the watch for that.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| But they could have both things in two separate models.
|
| Wasn't the 11 pro the size of the mini / SE? I don't remember
| whether there was an 11 mini, but it seems to me that 11 pro
| / SE were exactly that, and the current minis / se are the
| size of the 7/8/se/11 pro.
|
| I the time I couldn't justify buying a new phone, but I
| remember late last year, when I figured I could start
| looking, I was possibly contemplating getting the 13 pro, for
| the camera. But when I saw how huge it was, I immediately
| abandoned the idea.
| pge wrote:
| first gen SE is smallest, and both it and the 2nd/3rd gen
| SE are smaller than the 11 pro (though the latter is
| closer, only 0.2" smaller in both length and width).
|
| The iphone 12 mini and 13 mini are both smaller than the
| 2nd/3rd gen SE but larger than the 1st gen SE.
|
| The 2nd/3rd gen SE is the same size as the iphone 8.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| I used a first-gen SE up until last year and thought it
| was great. I know it was super old, but it being really
| small was one of the biggest selling points of it for me.
| gopalv wrote:
| > 1. Cheaper iPhone
|
| > 2. You don't want to carry a big iPhone
|
| If you add those two up, you get "Middle school kids".
|
| Though the apple watch with its own SIM has solved some of
| the "contact device without instagram" needs that parents
| want with their kids.
| mtoner23 wrote:
| Sounds like you've answered your own question. Margins are
| lower, why would they want to sell more of those compared to
| the regular iphones?
| torstenvl wrote:
| So increase the price?
|
| As a criminal defense attorney, I will never own a FaceID
| device. Ever. I owned an iPhone 7, then an iPhone 8, then an
| iPhone SE 2020, then another iPhone SE 2020. I may upgrade to
| the iPhone SE 2022.
|
| Cost is not an issue for me. I don't buy the iPhone SE
| because I'm cheap. I buy the iPhone SE because it is, on
| balance, hands down the best phone Apple makes right now for
| people who value convenience, portability, and security.
|
| I tried the iPhone Mini when I broke my first iPhone SE while
| hiking. I don't trust FaceID to work when I want it to
| (masks, glasses vs contacts, etc. tripped it up). I don't
| trust FaceID _not_ to work when I _don 't_ want it to. I
| ended up returning it and going back to the SE.
|
| I don't think I'm alone.
| twobitshifter wrote:
| Just an idea in case they kill touchid options: if you get
| an apple watch you can keep your phone unlocked when nearby
| and just disable faceid.
|
| They have also recently improved FaceID to work with masks
| on, so the situation has improved since you tested the
| mini.
| pwinnski wrote:
| Can you not... disable FaceID?
|
| You can set any iPhone to use a passcode every time,
| disable TouchID, FaceID, whatever.
| pvarangot wrote:
| Yes you can disable FaceID unlock. I only use it for not
| very important apps but just unlock my phone with a
| passcode. You can also set the time for how long to wait
| until your phone requires the passcode again, and you can
| set that so that when you lock, the passcode is needed
| immediately after.
| Bud wrote:
| FaceID can be disabled. Reliably. Not sure I see what the
| issue is here.
|
| You can also quickly, discreetly, and temporarily disable
| it, for instance if you are stopped by police. So this just
| isn't a real issue.
| mgkimsal wrote:
| I stuck with the 12 mini, vs going to another SE (had SE
| for years). I miss the Touch ID. A lot. Having to look at
| something, then swipe up, then ... do other stuff to get
| back to the home screen, instead of literally just putting
| my thumb on a button the pressing it... it's so much more
| convenience. Of course, you can just turn off the face
| stuff altogether, but you lose some security (and IIRC,
| some of payment stuff won't work?)
| rescbr wrote:
| I have bought the iPhone SE 2022 mainly because it has
| TouchID. Being cheaper is just icing on the cake.
| shawn-butler wrote:
| Just curious what impact / relevance does being a criminal
| defense attorney have on using a device with FaceID?
| codeslave13 wrote:
| IANAL. But from what i gather you cant be compelled to
| enter a passcode or forces to unlock phone with a
| fingerprint. There is no clear such protections for face.
| torstenvl wrote:
| More or less. In my jurisdiction you _can_ be compelled
| to give up biometrics, which has been expanded to include
| biometric unlocking. However, it requires a separate
| authorization, which in many cases will take long enough
| for the paperwork for TouchID to time out, and passcodes
| cannot be compelled (again, in my jurisdiction). There is
| no such protection for directing you to look at your
| phone.
|
| For clients under investigation who have FaceID or
| similar unlocking for phones or computers, we _always_
| recommend they disable it and just use a passcode until
| the investigation is complete.
| hamburglar wrote:
| Like you advise your clients, no matter what the law
| says, you can't be compelled to unlock your phone with
| FaceID if you don't set up FaceID on your phone. I don't
| understand why this would prevent you from buying one.
| [deleted]
| rich_sasha wrote:
| Very interesting - what is there _specifically_ about being
| a criminal defence attorney that makes you district FaceID?
| Data sharing issues? Securing personal / work data?
|
| I'm not disagreeing, I'm very wary of these mechanisms,
| just curious about your thought process.
| daemin wrote:
| Not OP but from various laws around the world Police can
| generally use something physical to unlock your device -
| your face, your thumb - but they cannot get you to put in
| your password or pass code without a warrant.
|
| Granted this kind of breaks down at borders where they
| have special laws, but for inside various countries it
| still holds.
| eropple wrote:
| You don't have to enable FaceID, though.
| scarface74 wrote:
| And in various places around the world, police use rubber
| hose decryption...
| daemin wrote:
| Well yeah, if you're on the street in Russia and the
| police in full military gear ask you to unlock your
| phone, I'd like to say I would resist and decline but I
| doubt it.
| skylanh wrote:
| > In a 2014 case out of a Virginia state court that seems
| to have set off the current debate, police obtained a
| search warrant to search a suspect's home and to seize
| various items, including his smartphone that had TouchID
| enabled.
|
| > The judge in that case drew a bright line: Under the
| Fifth Amendment, police could not force the suspect to
| communicate his passcode, but they could force him to use
| his fingerprint to unlock the device. The reason?
|
| > Providing a fingerprint was "non-testimonial," because
| it did not require the suspect to produce anything from
| his own mind. On the other hand, to give up your personal
| passcode is classically testimonial, since it comes from
| your head.
|
| https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-
| technology/surveillance-te...
| easton wrote:
| Which is why Apple put in a kill switch for Face ID (or
| Touch ID), if you hold down the power button (or power
| and volume down for newer iPhones) until the "Slide to
| Power Off" screen appears, the next unlock will require
| your passcode.
| macintux wrote:
| Additionally, just because a phone has Face ID doesn't
| mean you're obligated to configure it.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Because we all know that police always operate within the
| law and would _never_ lie about coercing a suspect to
| unlock their phone.
|
| Or, if they really wanted the phone unlocked, they could
| just follow the suspect and tackle him while he is using
| it.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/12/uk-police-
| unlock...
| binkHN wrote:
| IANAL, but you might be compelled to give up a
| fingerprint, face or other biometric access options; you
| cannot be compelled to give up a passphrase or something
| stored in your mind.
| prawn wrote:
| Keep a base and make the Mini another premium option. It's not
| always that a smaller device is weaker but that it required
| sophisticated engineering to get everything that compact.
|
| I'd pick a name that suggests that it's a lifestyle thing
| rather than being spartan.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| unfortunately the best option I can see is supporting Lineage OS
| development on the XZ2 Compact at the moment. Seems to be no
| market for smaller phones at all (Apple are even ditching the
| mini for 14 iirc, Jelly has never made it anywhere near me to
| try). Beyond that, the Xperia Ace 3 is an okay size (slightly
| bigger than iPhone Mini) and maybe if it does well there will be
| more smaller options?
|
| I've a 12 mini now because I thought the original SE was losing
| support last year, I def regret not sticking with the SE for
| another year instead, for me the 12 mini is unreasonably big.
| kgermino wrote:
| "4 hour screen on time"
|
| That seems crazy low. I have an iPhone Mini (and would switch
| back to Android when I replace it if they have a mini quality
| phone and Apple doesn't) and my battery lasts "all day." I'm not
| sure how it works out in terms of screen on time, but it's got to
| be at least 6 hours a day. Probably more.
| eertami wrote:
| Battery settings probably shows your screen on time? In
| independent reviews, the iPhone mini (12 & 13) seemed to get
| closer to 5 hours screen on time.
|
| 6 hours or more _per day_ sounds absolutely insane though, you
| must be overestimating that unless you use your phone as a GPS
| to commute or some similar use case that requires it on in the
| background.
| kgermino wrote:
| > 6 hours or more _per day_ sounds absolutely insane though,
| you must be overestimating that unless you use your phone as
| a GPS to commute or some similar use case that requires it on
| in the background.
|
| Interesting. I do use my phone a lot: slack/email regularly
| throughout the day, twitter addiction, videos in the
| background while doing other stuff, and reading; but you
| might be right that I'm overestimating it. (Screen Time says
| about 7 hours, I have no idea what that counts though)
|
| Regardless, if the consensus in reviews is about 5 hours
| asking for 4 isn't crazy, especially since (IIRC) iPhones
| tend to do better than Android in battery life.
| mickotron wrote:
| I moved from Pixel/GrapheneOS to iPhone 13 mini. Would go Pixel
| in a heartbeat if I could get the size of iPhone mini.
| ngngngng wrote:
| I wanted this and it didn't exist, so now I use an iPhone 13
| mini. I'll likely replace the battery on this a few times since
| rumor has it the mini model won't be continued. It's too bad that
| Apple is running entirely on the sales numbers of the mini itself
| for that decision, as since getting an iPhone 13 mini I've bought
| 3 of the newest model of macbook pro for members of my family,
| started using Apple TV+ and Apple Music, and bought myself some
| Airpods pro. Apple brought me into their ecosystem with this
| device so from my perspective it seems like it could be
| worthwhile for them to continue making it.
| joshvm wrote:
| I also got a 13 Mini. It's a nice phone, but it feels very
| dense, especially with the magsafe case. I'm not sold on the
| experience coming from Android, but it seems like it's a case
| of learning workarounds.
|
| In hindsight, I realised that I was coming from an Android
| phone a few generations back (Pixel 2) which I considered to be
| a reasonable size. Pixels have gotten about 10 mm longer over
| time. However now we have wall to wall screens, it's quite a
| difference. The iPhone Pro is the same form factor as a Pixel
| 2, for example, but is all screen. 6" seems doable for Android,
| but that's a lower bound.
|
| I think what we all want is a Pixel 2 without the bezel. There
| are lots of phones with smaller OLED displays, but none without
| the bezel.
| JoshTko wrote:
| Use it without the case. The iPhone 13 mini aluminum coating
| is very, very scratch resistant.
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| I think we will see the small phone format returning down the
| road under the SE brand instead. So a year or two from now a
| new SE that looks like today's 13 mini.
|
| While the rumors themselves are usually pretty accurate, the
| interpretations and conversations around them remain pretty
| wild and emotional. Low sales numbers probably proved that the
| mini isn't the format that needs a refresh every single year
| and the 13 mini was unique because the 12 mini had a few weak
| points that needed addressing.
|
| I think Apple has lately really had it's sh*t together when it
| comes to strategy and timing lately. They knew years ahead of
| time that the interest in the small format (in which you can
| reach across the entire screen with your thumb) would return as
| soon as everyone got used to and bored with big screens.
| marliechiller wrote:
| exact same user story for me!
| rplnt wrote:
| I've been looking at new phones since my Xperia Compact (XZ1)
| started having some issues, and iPhone seems to be the only
| choice. I just wish it had usb-c. By the way, did you consider
| to go with 12 instead of 13?
| coldpie wrote:
| I'd give the iPhone 13 Mini a weak-recommend for small phone
| lovers coming from Android. It is truly the only option for
| small phones. (Well, small-ish. I actually find it a bit
| larger than I'd like, but it's acceptable.) But, iOS is a
| really significant downgrade from Android. It's usable, I've
| lived with mine for months, but I'm really hoping I can
| switch back to Android in the future. I've even considered
| just reselling the iPhone at a loss so I can switch back
| sooner, but it's hard because there are _also_ no good
| Android options, so I haven 't... yet.
| ngngngng wrote:
| I had the 12 mini and then paid a few bucks to upgrade to the
| 13 mini during a promotion at a local shop. The 13 mini
| battery life is better which I really appreciate since my
| phone is my GPS device when I'm in the backcountry without a
| charger.
| netcyrax wrote:
| The Samsung Flip seems like it can solve the problems descibed in
| the post. Large enough screen when you open it, small enough to
| fit nicely in your pocket when closed. Of course it's a bit think
| when it's closes, but we are getting there.
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| If you are on HN, you likely use a computer a lot. But 15 years
| ago, a switch occurred, and nowaday, there are way more people
| using a phone that don't have a computer at home, or use it
| rarely.
|
| This means for the vast majority of people today, and hence
| customers, the phone IS the computer. It's the entry point for
| everything.
|
| They consume content, shop and even work on that.
|
| But phones have terrible ergonomics. Their productivity sucks.
|
| One of the reason is the limited screen space.
|
| For someone using a phone, mostly as a communication device,
| while doing important things on a computer, a small phone makes
| sense. I'm this kind of person. My phone is too big for my taste.
| Anything complicated, I reach for my laptop: it's more efficient.
| Phones are terrible at multitasking, and constraint myself to 2
| finger typings, tabs that open in several steps and a viewport of
| the size of 2 credit cards?
|
| But we are not the target.
|
| For the target, a big screen is the mandatory crunch they need
| because they watch a lot videos, do banking, read pdf and even
| type work stuff on their phone. This tiny, constrained square
| they have to make do with for everything.
|
| It makes small screen a hard sell. The iphone mini was not a
| great success if we compare it to other phones, despite everybody
| claiming we would all love it.
| dougifresh94 wrote:
| "This means that Apple may decide to kill the Mini." -> according
| to the rumors, it already has for the 14+
| vonwoodson wrote:
| I got an iPhone mini, and I can tell you that it is truly a
| wonderful experience. A small premium android would be a great
| idea.
| Balvarez wrote:
| I'd love a smart phone that... - is android - is small - has a
| headphone jack - has a great camera(on the back) - has a
| removable SD card - has a removable battery Currently, my next
| phone will be a Sony as it checks more boxes than any other
| phone.
| nfriedly wrote:
| I just signed up for his mailing list and put this down for my
| comments:
|
| I _really_ want a microSD slot. Shared with the second SIM is OK,
| but please don 't exclude it entirely. And/or more internal
| storage.
|
| I'm on a Pixel 2 and am generally satisfied with the size of that
| phone, but I could live with smaller. My biggest problems are
| that 1) google screwed me with a non-unlockable bootloader when I
| sent it in for repair, so the software is slowly rotting and 2) I
| keep running out of storage. Other than that, the phone is
| basically fine.
|
| From the reviews I've read, the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 likes to draw
| _way_ too much power and then thermally throttle - so probably
| not a great choice for a small phone (with both a smaller battery
| and less surface area to dissipate heat.) But, this phone
| probably won 't ship this year, so maybe they'll have something
| better out by the time it does.
|
| I wouldn't put "Hole punch front camera" on my "desired" list,
| but eh, it's not a dealbreaker for me either. I'd rather have a
| little bit of top and bottom bezel with decent front-firing
| speakers, and then stick the camera in the top bezel. Kind of
| like the current Xperias, only shorter.
|
| Headphone jack would also be nice to have, but also not a
| dealbreaker for me.
|
| Oh, and video output over USB-C would be another nice to have. I
| think it comes built-in with most recent Snapdragons, but Google
| seems to go out of their way to disable the feature...
| notorandit wrote:
| Port android to iphone hardware
| mc4ndr3 wrote:
| Users don't "want" gigantic bliddy phones. Marketers give
| extravagant presentations to justify their positions, claiming
| that users want big phones. Then the engineering team is
| instructed to design big phones. Then only big phones are
| available. If it doesn't fit in your pocket, at least make it
| comfortable to hold in your lap. Now marketing has "data" that
| appears to indicate that people want even bigger phones. Repeat,
| until the form factor beggars the moon.
| timmyjoe42 wrote:
| I like phones that fit into my pocket and allow me to sit down. I
| refuse to wear a belt clip.
| djtango wrote:
| I was a Sony Xperia Compact aficionado until the latest gen was
| impossible to buy due to the chip shortage.
| richardfey wrote:
| Which model were you trying to buy?
| djtango wrote:
| The Sony Xperia 5 iii
|
| It was really expensive and was impossible to get at launch.
| The optical zoom was a nice touch but I didn't really care
| for the weird aspect they have.
| HeavyStorm wrote:
| So do I. My hands are small for current phone sizes. I need to
| use both hands to type.
| goldforever wrote:
| MrDresden wrote:
| Still using my Pixel 3 (still holds a full charge for around 15
| hours of use) and simply can't imagine going for anything bigger.
|
| My only option will be to go for the Pixel 6a once it comes out
| this summer (I only want stock OS, and "LTS")
| rejor121 wrote:
| I think the iPhone 5 was the perfect size. I still have mine
| though it doesn't work anymore since I dropped it ages ago.
|
| Still hoping a phone even smaller than the iPhone 12 mini is
| released
| raynr wrote:
| After years of lurking, I wrote a post over on /r/android on
| this... in 2019. By then the small phone minority had been loud
| and vocal for some years already.
|
| Based on the responses and trends observed since then, I don't
| think this is ever going to happen.
|
| Tech savvy users for tech savvy products are gone. It is now a
| consumerism and popularity driven market, small phones simply
| don't have the bling factor to sell.
|
| Even if this was not the case, logically, if you have only one
| mobile computing device, you would be better of getting a big one
| so you that you can do more with it. Read more e-mail, watch more
| content, play more games, take better pictures (bigger phones
| tend to have more space for more options).
|
| And for us die hard small phone folks, well, all of us need a
| phone, right? And since all of our phones stop getting updates
| after a few years (iPhone notwithstanding), we will complain
| loudly about the lack of small phones... and then buy a big phone
| anyway.
|
| The best we can hope for is for manufacturers to make a loss
| leading mini line. Like Sony, Samsung, and Google used to do.
|
| Now that they do not, I own an iPhone 13 mini, and I hope to use
| it with battery replacements for at least 4 years.
|
| I put my money where my mouth is for the longest time. My phone
| history: iPhone 3G, iPhone 4, Sony Z1 compact, Sony Z3 Compact,
| Sony Z5 Compact, Sony XZ1 Compact (good golly gosh what a
| fantastic phone that was), Pixel 3, iPhone 13 Mini. But our
| market is too small.
|
| RIP small phones.
| fennecfoxy wrote:
| I would so buy a modernised Xperia Mini Pro, it was such an
| amazing phone/format. Recent camera/screen etc and maybe a bit
| thinner and it'd be so perfect.
| pluc wrote:
| I want a phone that doesn't put billions of R&D into twelve
| fucking cameras
| osigurdson wrote:
| One theory for the iPhone mini's lack of success is people
| currently equate an expensive phone as a somewhat larger device
| (but not huge). The iPhone mini looks a bit like an old iPhone 5
| from a distance. Paying a premium for something that looks like
| what everyone already has two or three of in their junk drawer is
| a tough trade-off for many people. The longer battery life then
| becomes the rational anchor.
|
| In any case, I certainly hope they make a smaller devices again
| in 4-6 years.
| delta_p_delta_x wrote:
| So basically the Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact[0], then. Unfortunately
| this phone is approaching four years out of date. I owned it
| (still do, technically; I just gave it to a relative) and it was
| by and large the _best_ smartphone I ever had. Even 4 years after
| purchase, the battery still lasts for 5+ hours of screen-on-time,
| the front-firing speakers are extremely powerful, and there are
| no noticeable slowdowns. It experienced some water damage early
| on, so the screen likes to randomly spazz out on occasion; there
| is also no headphone jack (this was when Sony attempted to follow
| the trend, to tremendous backlash).
|
| Addendum: I daresay many of the demographic here at Hacker News
| likes phones similar to that of /r/Android: headphone jack,
| notchless rectangular display, SD card slot, notification LED,
| not-too-crazy design, and there's literally only _one_ company
| doing all this: Sony.
|
| [0]:
| https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=9082&idPhone2...
| patwolf wrote:
| I used an Atom for a while, which had a ridiculously small 2.4"
| screen. One thing I realized is that the smaller you make the
| screen, the thicker you have to make the device in order to
| provide space for the battery. While a smaller screen does use
| less battery, it's not enough that you can avoid increasing
| thickness.
|
| I know that's a bit more extreme than the <6" mentioned in the
| article, but I think it still holds that when making a flagship
| packed with good cameras, battery life, and CPU, it's much easier
| to make a sexy looking large phone than a small phone.
| Normille wrote:
| I'd much rather have a smaller thicker phone than a larger
| thinner one. The fetish for making electronic devices ever
| thinner is another one that passes me by. In my book 'thinner =
| more fragile"
|
| And, when it comes to 'pocketability' I find pockets generally
| trend to expand depth-wise to accommodate thicker items. I've
| yet to find a garment with pockets that expand length- or
| width-wise to accommodate larger items
| bobbiechen wrote:
| One interesting feature on my Samsung Galaxy S9 is "one-handed
| mode", which shrinks the screen area to about the size of the
| iPhone Mini screen, leaving black bars along one side and the
| top. It's interesting that they're aware of the issue and have a
| software solution (along with similar features like the camera
| shutter button that can be dragged around to a more convenient
| location to tap).
|
| One-handed mode is decent when holding the phone parallel to the
| ground supported by your hand, but still doesn't cut it for
| holding the phone up since you'll need to grip the entire phone
| body anyways.
| blangk wrote:
| I owned the iPhone 12 mini and thought it was a great phone - I
| was able to one hand it quite easy and the hardware specs were
| more than sufficient. My partner now uses it but she would prefer
| a slightly larger screen I think. I moved to a Pixel 5 and think
| it is currently one of the best smaller phones - For most stuff I
| can one hand this phone too, and in some ways the ergonomics of
| the Pixel are better. For instance the back side finger print
| scanner unlock is the best I've ever used. I used to want to keep
| my aux port, but the bluetooth audio industry has really stepped
| up in recent years - I still just use my airpod pros and probably
| will continue too
| mansarip wrote:
| Searching something like this for months. I ended up having an
| Asus Zenfone 8.
| duxup wrote:
| I moved to iOS recently, partly to get an iPhone mini.
|
| It's wonderful to have a small phone.
| littlecranky67 wrote:
| iPhone convert for the small form factor here, too. I had
| Android since the Galaxy S1, but in 2018 switched to the iPhone
| 8 as there was just no decent SFF android device. I considered
| the Pixel 3a, and I am glad that I didn't go for it as it
| dropped out of support and no longer receives security updates,
| while I'm today still on my fully supported and updated iPhone
| 8. Next phone will be one of the iPhone SE series.
| DrBoring wrote:
| I like the idea, I'll fill out your form later today.
|
| Feedback on the website:
|
| On the graphic at the bottom where you overlay different models
| of phone:
|
| 1. I think the red/green/blue borders would benefit from more
| contrast. It's hard for my eyes to distinguish.
|
| 2. I think you should add a deck of cards to the graphic. It
| would provide a frame of reference for scale.
|
| ... P.S. I just noticed the "Extrapolating from past models, the
| Pixel 10 will be roughly the size of California" below the
| graphic. If the purpose of the graphic was purely to accompany
| that joke, then I guess ignore my suggestions.
|
| Although, a deck of cards may contribute to the joke. Hmmm
| [deleted]
| cosmojg wrote:
| I want an Apple Watch-sized Android phone.
| rd07 wrote:
| The lack of less-than-5-inches android phones also disappointed
| me. My first and second android phones come with 4.7 and 5.0
| inches display respectively. And then, when I have to upgrade to
| my current phone which is 6.4 inches, I feel like my hands are a
| little too small for it and I have to constantly use 2 hands to
| hold it so it won't drop.
| jbarberu wrote:
| The best Android phones I've had were Nexus 5 and Nexus 5X. I
| thought the 5X were a little bit bigger than I prefer, but over
| all a great device. After that I went through a bunch of
| different phones, first a cheapo Motorola at 5.7" (smallest I
| could find without complete garbage specs) and then a Samsung A10
| at 6". They were both impractically big, despite having quite
| large hands.
|
| The only way I could find to have a smaller screen was to switch
| over to iOS. Currently I have an iPhone SE (iPhone 8) at 4.7"
| which is lovely, but I would have preferred to stay with Android
| as it's the only Apple device I currently own.
| xtrimsky1234 wrote:
| I agree, it's the reason this year I switched to iPhone even if I
| clearly prefer Android :(
| guerrilla wrote:
| I hate giant phones too, that's why I got a Samsumng Galaxy
| Xcover 5. The 4 was even smaller but is too slow for today's
| apps.
|
| https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover_5-10718.php
| magic_hamster wrote:
| Got an Asus Zenfone 8 and it's the best decision I could make. It
| has great specs and it's so convenient. The only downside is the
| camera which isn8as good as the camera you get in iphone or
| Galaxy devices, it's fairly good but not outstanding.
| girvo wrote:
| I want an iPhone Mini 14, but that's gone too now. I'm going to
| have to trade up my Mini 12 for a Mini 13, and the repair it
| until its impossible to repair further, as this is the _perfect
| phone_ and is basically the last of it 's kind now.
| [deleted]
| davee5 wrote:
| Hi Eric, I'm a hardware startup guy myself (our paths have
| crossed) with the distinction that my own "very specific set of
| skills" has been honed at smartphone megacompanies and smartphone
| startups. OSOM, Essential, HTC, Samsung, Apple. I've designed and
| built a lot of phones. I'm building one now. I think this is a
| noble effort, I personally prefer pocketable phones too, but I
| think there are nigh-insurmountable hurdles in your paths
| forward.
|
| - 1. Supply chain / component R&D -
|
| You will be very, very hard pressed to source a pre-existing,
| high quality, non-exclusive 5.4" display with a hole punch. If
| you end up doing this as your own startup then you're going to
| start by trying to buy off the shelf parts to keep costs down.
| But that display you want is simply not on any of the development
| roadmaps for the major component manufacturers. The industry has
| its own momentum, and the component suppliers have also been
| looking at the trendlines so they are building bigger and bigger.
|
| If you can't find the screen you want in a catalogue then you
| have to pay someone to build it. Convincing BOE et. al that your
| phone will sell enough to pay off R&D costs is unlikely, so be
| prepared to pay several million bucks in NRE to make it worth
| their time (it might still not be) and the wait a year for them
| to spin up the fabs. So ~$5M and 9-18 months later you have a
| display.
|
| - 2. Big players are uninterested, not uninformed -
|
| Big companies are drowning in market data. They know some people
| really, really want small phones. But it's a long-tail
| opportunity they're willfully ignoring, and people who need
| phones will still buy _something_ even if reluctantly. I 've been
| in the meetings, small phone advocacy goes nowhere.
|
| Also I'm a little surprised you're hoping an online petition will
| work after your prior experience trying to influence your
| acquirers. I presume you saw the inside of Fitbit / Google and
| how decisions are made...
| derefr wrote:
| > You will be very, very hard pressed to source a pre-existing,
| high quality, non-exclusive 5.4" display with a hole punch
|
| How about getting one of those foldable screens in the larger
| standard size, and then just... tucking away the excess inside
| the phone body?
|
| Y'know, like the marketing material for the iPhone X claimed it
| was doing: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-
| qimg-0fd6daf2b9b742bf5dbf10... (though it actually wasn't.)
| Pasorrijer wrote:
| You helped design the HTC EVO 3D!! I loved that phone what a
| great design.
| davee5 wrote:
| Thanks for the kind words! I love the "helped" preface
| because it's exactly right, design is a team sport and I
| strongly believe in giving credit where due. Ben Chen
| (https://www.benchendesign.com/) was the creative lead on EVO
| 3D. I lead the technical side of the design for that one but
| he set the vision and the aesthetic. Great dude to work with
| too.
| nine_k wrote:
| I go to aliexpress, and I see a number of 4" screens. Some even
| come with capacitive touch sensors mounted on top.
|
| Yes, they are low-resolution by today's standards, something
| like 800x480. Still, they are available for those who might be
| considering to produce a really compact phone. Instead, they go
| to high-end coffee machines and the like, and to RPi tinkerers.
|
| My hunch that the limiting factor would mostly be the battery.
| Modern radios and modern CPUs and GPUs consume more, and you
| don't want to market a very slow phone, or a phone that has 6
| hours of daily usage worth of battery. And you can't hide as
| much battery behind a small screen.
| ufmace wrote:
| I suspect that part of the problem is that, as measured by
| actual purchases, people don't really prioritize small size and
| displays that much.
|
| Look at how long all of the requirement lists posted around
| these threads are. Some people really want a nice camera, some
| a headphone jack, some a SD card or big battery etc. I would
| expect that it's a fact of life in a small phone that you can't
| fit everything anyone might want, but everyone has a different
| list of must-haves, making it much harder to make one device
| that all of the small-phone-wanter market will actually buy.
|
| And price. If you really want some one-off thing, you've gotta
| pay more for it. Would you pay $2k, $3k, more for a great small
| phone? Seems likely that such prices would help a lot at
| getting them made. But in reality, people seem to refuse to pay
| more than a modest markup over the mainstream model with tens
| of millions produced. Sorry folks, I don't think it works like
| that.
| tazjin wrote:
| > Some people really want a nice camera, some a headphone
| jack, some a SD card or big battery etc
|
| We used to have these things in small form factors. Those of
| us annoyed by where the big companies forced the direction of
| development are mostly very aware that things have regressed
| hard.
| [deleted]
| kalleboo wrote:
| > _But in reality, people seem to refuse to pay more than a
| modest markup over the mainstream model with tens of millions
| produced_
|
| Worse, they expect it to be _cheaper_ since "it has less
| screen and battery it must be cheaper to make!"
| nousermane wrote:
| Talking about notch/hole-punch displays. As somebody who never
| ever uses front-facing camera, can I have a phone/display
| without such defects, please?
| brnaftr361 wrote:
| Yeah, no kidding. How much of the small phone demo overlaps
| with the selfie demo? I could go without a front camera.
| [deleted]
| dorfsmay wrote:
| I love a small phone but I need the front cam for quick
| video calls.
|
| Front camera, 3mm headset jack are must for me. If I could
| get a notification LED too... You might be able to get a
| lot of money out of me!
| nfoz wrote:
| "selfie"? Video-calls are especially normalized now, since
| the pandemic. My family and friends use video-calls more
| often than voice-only calls now.
| masklinn wrote:
| Front cameras are also useful for other stuff e.g. taking
| angled pictures with little visibility is much easier
| with the front facing camera because _you can see what
| you 're aiming at_.
|
| It can even take pictures in the dark because the display
| will be used as a floodlight, though in that case aiming
| doesn't really work unless the software brightening is
| sufficient to at least gain an idea.
|
| Front camera also works as a mirror in a pinch, much
| easier than trying to aim the back camera then flipping
| the phone around and finding out how off you were.
|
| Do people taking selfies even use the front camera? I
| feel like image quality is really rather poor for that
| use case but it's not my jam.
| brnaftr361 wrote:
| You do that on the phone? I'd never.
|
| And nobody I know has changed their communication.
| Discord, text, call. Everyone in my milieu is _painfully_
| average.
| dorfsmay wrote:
| A lot of people on my circles have moved to Signal, and
| we do short video calls.
| jan_g wrote:
| Nobody? I'm sort of in the same boat (I quite dislike
| video calls), but my extended family (from young to 60+)
| have started during pandemic and now continue to video
| call each other quite regularly - including group video
| calls.
|
| As I said, not my preference and I rarely join, but for
| example my wife does video calls almost on a daily basis.
| So the "selfie" camera seems to be increasingly an
| important feature for the regular user.
| brnaftr361 wrote:
| I've seen it used once and to a disastrous result. I
| kinda feel like there are other workarounds too:
|
| I remember one of the Motorola phones was designed for
| expansions, but that was pre-USB C. If you had a
| horizontally symmetrical phone, maybe widgets could solve
| the problem? Front facing and rear facing, while also
| being privacy respecting, no notch necessary, and similar
| resolution to boot. so maybe easier to source. Free up
| some room on the SOC and relieve some complexity while
| providing the added benefit of port protection.
| Presumably this could be applied to SD and obviously
| 3.5mm jacks.
| SamBam wrote:
| > I've seen it used once
|
| Ok, let's just accept now that you live in an isolated
| bubble, if your experience with video calls is "I've seen
| it used once and to a disastrous result."
|
| I'm not denying your experience, but it's not the
| experience of the vast majority of the modern world now,
| across all categories of people. Many people may not use
| video calls _regularly_ , but most people have had more
| experience than "seen it used once."
| Izkata wrote:
| I don't think they do. Meets and Zooms seem to be the way
| people have gone, I hadn't even heard of phone video
| calls becoming more common before this thread, and my
| family definitely hasn't done it.
| cercatrova wrote:
| No, because there are so few of people with your opinion that
| those types of phones will not sell enough to recoup costs,
| much less make a profit. At most, you can buy a phone with a
| pop-up camera (the OnePlus 7T Pro is nice, although a few
| years old now) [0].
|
| [0] https://www.androidauthority.com/pop-up-camera-phones-
| slider...
| dsr_ wrote:
| The popup selfie cam on the 7pro is very, very good,
| because:
|
| a) guaranteed not to be on until it's out
|
| b) never eats screen space, ever
|
| My current phone is a 7pro. I haven't seen a good
| replacement yet.
| deckard1 wrote:
| same. It's a shame OnePlus decided to drop the popup
| camera. They had a really solid mechanism. Going back to
| a screen with a notch or hole just feels primitive.
| Saint_Genet wrote:
| If you sum together the stuff people in this thread has
| suggested, you have the Homers Car of phones on your hands
| mjevans wrote:
| It's this or a Youtube clip that's maybe monetized by
| Disney at best...
| https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer
|
| The Homer was a car that Home Simpson built to exactly what
| they wanted without any tradeoffs for off the shelf
| components, trends, or sensibility of what currently was
| common.
|
| It's also somewhat design by committee, with features like
| a more luxurious bubble for the adults, and a micro-bubble
| for the kids; presumably so you can ignore anything but the
| screams or silence.
|
| I also suspect this fictional car might have been an
| ingredient in the market shifting from minivans to SUVs.
| Those don't have such great audio isolation but were even
| taller than the minivans (which were taller than station
| wagons). Or it could be the 'backup camera' finally
| reaching a tolerable price level.
| 7speter wrote:
| I also suspect this fictional car might have been an
| ingredient in the market shifting from minivans to SUVs
|
| The simpsons also did the canyonero:
|
| https://youtu.be/PI_Jl5WFQkA
| lowercased wrote:
| Didn't Homer buy the women's model? Was it the F-series?
| gopher_space wrote:
| It's really just the iPhone 3GS.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| ...what stuff?
|
| The suggestions I'm seeing are yes hole punch, no hole
| punch, a screen you can use with one hand, just enough
| battery-filled thickness to have no camera bump, good
| camera, microsd, fingerprint sensor, headphone jack.
|
| And one person wants a keyboard but I don't think they're
| suggesting that for _this_ phone.
|
| Once you decide if you want a hole punch or not, I see no
| issue with implementing the rest of those features in the
| same phone in a reasonable way.
| [deleted]
| shdon wrote:
| Indeed. Those notches, hole-punches etc, I could do without.
| I very much prefer to have a bit of bezel and have a proper
| screen (preferably even with angular corners, rather than
| rounded corners). This also helps when handing the phone to
| somebody else to show them something... they have a place to
| hold the darn thing without accidentally swiping, tapping, or
| - worst of all - hitting the back button.
| [deleted]
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Apparently, Android now has an option to emulate a bezel,
| thus hiding the hole-punch camera.
| hedora wrote:
| The hole punch is a nice to have. A phone with a case that
| was half the area of a pixel 6 pro, and also had a top bezel
| would still have a perfectly usable screen.
| boring_twenties wrote:
| On my G7 Play with LineageOS, I was able to "disable" the
| notch -- that is, draw a black bar around it, and have a
| proper rectangular display with a full-width status bar right
| below it.
|
| Works great, especially considering the display is not
| _quite_ small enough for me in the first place.
| timoth wrote:
| You can do that with the stock Android too, once you've
| enabled the developer options in settings. The setting
| needed is "Display cutout" --> "Hide".
| srmarm wrote:
| It probably wouldn't work well for a small phone, by my oppo
| has a pop up camera which works much better than I'd
| expected.
|
| Majority of the time I enjoy a full screen experience with a
| tiny bezel. If I need the selfie cam it silently and very
| quickly is there.
|
| I think they didn't catch on as they are complicated and
| inhibit IP68 ratings.
|
| But I think I'll struggle to move on from it. The notches and
| hole punch cameras just look like an irritating defect when I
| use them.
| bscphil wrote:
| > people who need phones will still buy something even if
| reluctantly
|
| I'll be blunt: no I won't. I reluctantly bought the phone I
| still use (a moto X4) back in 2019, at which point it was
| already getting old. It was one of the smaller Android phones
| available at the time; I measured it diagonally corner to
| corner (including bezel) at 159 mm (6.26 inches). The screen
| size is 130 mm (5.2 in) according to Wikipedia. This phone is
| in fact much too big for me, and I'm not happy with it.
|
| But I will be sticking with this phone into the indefinite
| future: until it breaks, becomes unusable, or a worthy
| replacement arises (a phone the size of the Nexus 5X or
| preferably smaller, with my must-have features). In the event I
| can't get this I will switch to a cheap feature phone since I
| need something for emergency use. I'll look into the mp3 player
| market to see if there's something I can use for playing music
| and audio books, maybe if I'm lucky there's something with a
| nice screen and an e-reader.
|
| I'm sure you're right and some people are more willing to
| compromise than me. However, what also seems likely is that
| many people are somewhere in between and will wait until their
| current phone is unusable before reluctantly downgrading to
| whatever the latest model is. Surely plenty of sales are lost
| due to this.
| theodric wrote:
| > people who need phones will still buy something even if
| reluctantly
|
| > until it breaks, becomes unusable
|
| You say no, but then you give two cases in which you would be
| a person who needs a phone who would grudgingly buy
| something.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| > a phone the size of the Nexus 5X or preferably smaller
|
| ...so, a current flagship? Samsung's Galaxy S22 is smaller
| than both the Moto X4 and Nexus 5X.
|
| Size comparison:
| https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Google-
| Nexus-5X,Motor...
|
| In general, phone sizes have stayed roughly constant since
| the Nexus 5X, though the displays are getting bigger as the
| bezels get smaller.
| bscphil wrote:
| Aha, you got me. I really should have specified that Nexus
| 5X was also too big.
|
| Moreover, the specification that _actually matters_ for
| one-handed phone users is the distance between the bottom
| corner of the phone (where it 's held in the hand) and the
| top opposite corner of the _screen_ , not the top corner of
| the phone. That's because that point is the furthest you'd
| ever need to stretch your thumb to use the phone. So
| actually, the displays getting bigger as the bezels get
| smaller _has_ been part of the problem.
|
| If you look at the Nexus 5X [1] you'll see that it has an
| enormous (by modern standards) top bezel. By comparison, a
| phone like the S22 has basically no bezel at all and will
| be much harder to use one-handed.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_5X
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| I actually used to be worried about the exact points
| you're making, as I used an iPhone 4 for years (which is
| tiny by today's standards).
|
| However, in practice 'not being able to reach the whole
| screen with my thumb' hasn't turned out to be a big
| problem: navigation elements at the top of the screen
| tend to be less-used (as app devs also take into account
| that it's a hassle to reach them). If I really need to
| use them one-handed, I can always 'scoot' my hand up a
| bit. (I can see how this is harder if you have smaller
| hands, though.)
|
| A larger screen also actually turns out to be quite nice,
| as more content fits on it (I'm actually writing this
| comment on my phone).
| MereInterest wrote:
| > However, in practice 'not being able to reach the whole
| screen with my thumb' hasn't turned out to be a big
| problem: navigation elements at the top of the screen
| tend to be less-used
|
| If that's true, then app devs are thoroughly incompetent
| at it. Take a look at at Chrome on Android. The address
| bar, tab menu, and settings bar are all at the top of the
| screen. In 2021, Apple made the same change for Safari,
| moving the address bar from the bottom of the screen to
| the top [1]. The tab grid Chrome's push for tab grid [2]
| made it even worse, because depending on the tab, you may
| need to reach across the entire diagonal the reach the
| tab you want. Firefox has the option of putting the
| address bar at the bottom (and if so, the tabs show near
| the bottom as well), but the navigation buttons for
| bookmarks are near the top of the screen.
|
| I don't think mobile developers think about one-handed
| phone use at all. Based on the designs used, with
| interactions bouncing all around the screen, it doesn't
| seem to be a concern at all. Perhaps they assume that
| everybody holds a phone with one hand and then touches
| the screen with the other hand.
|
| [0] https://images.idgesg.net/images/article/2022/02/05-c
| hrome-a...
|
| [1]
| https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/17/ios-15-beta-6-redesigns-
| safar...
|
| [2] https://m-cdn.phonearena.com/images/articles/372064-9
| 40/Scre...
| anderskaseorg wrote:
| In Android 12, Settings - System - Gestures - One-handed
| mode is helpful.
| jjav wrote:
| > > people who need phones will still buy something even if
| reluctantly
|
| > I'll be blunt: no I won't.
|
| Agreed. I used my 2005 Motorola Razr until 2020 because I
| have zero interest in an inconveniently large phone. When the
| Palm Phone came out I got it as a perfectly-sized
| replacement.
|
| I won't ever go to a larger phone because if it doesn't fit
| my pocket, what's the point? Might as well not have one.
| mdoms wrote:
| People who will happily continue using 15-year-old hardware
| are not a great market segment to target.
| happymellon wrote:
| It's not always happily. There is no upgrade path for my
| S10e.
| jjav wrote:
| There's that, but happily isn't the word. Every year I'd
| go on a research spree to find a replacement but it had
| to be as small or smaller. Every year I came up empty so
| eked out another year on the old phone.
|
| I'd happily replace more often if only palm-sized or
| smaller phones were available. I'm not particularly price
| sensitive either, I'll pay top premium price to get a
| conveniently-sized phone if someone is willing to sell it
| to me.
| happymellon wrote:
| I had the same situation with the S10e. I don't know how it
| compares to the Moto X4, but with the increased sized phones
| I have no interest in a new Android.
|
| I only got this one because I couldn't find one smaller.
|
| At the current rate I would have to move to iPhone just to
| stay a similar size.
| thih9 wrote:
| > In the event I can't get this I will switch to a cheap
| feature phone since I need something for emergency use.
|
| I tried switching to a feature phone and was surprised how
| often I use a smartphone; and how many people, banks,
| government organizations, restaurants, etc, assume that you
| have one.
| depereo wrote:
| Yes. COVID contact tracing in New Zealand nearly completely
| relied on QR-code sign-ins with an ios or android app, for
| example. My company has an app to manage my sick/annual
| leave in. Sure, there are fallbacks, but they're
| inconvenient and time or energy intensive in a way a phone
| isn't.
|
| There are vanishingly small numbers of people who will
| insist on a perfect-or-nothing approach to smartphones.
| This market segment is unserviceable. Sure, the size will
| be right, but it won't have the right battery size, or the
| battery has to be swappable on-the-go, or it didn't have
| quite the right sd card option, or maybe the software isn't
| 'polished' enough, or it had to have two headphone jacks.
| There will be something 'not good enough' and therefore
| it's passed over even though they want a 'small' phone.
| bscphil wrote:
| I'm sure there are people like that, but to be clear, I'm
| not one of them. There are _many_ irritations I have with
| modern smartphones, but I 'm willing to put up with all
| of them if necessary except 2: must be small enough, must
| have headphone jack. I'll buy any LineageOS capable phone
| that meets those criteria.
| depereo wrote:
| Right, but those are your specific requirements, the next
| person will insist on dual-sim. LineageOS capability is
| another piece that requires work, the headphone jack
| might be too hard for a small-scale small-phone
| manufacturing line as well, since someone else will
| require that it's waterproof.
|
| There is a smartphone that meets the needs of a small-
| phone purchaser, after all, if small is the requirement -
| the iphone mini. But purchasing that would require some
| compromise on your hardline requirements, which will be
| different to someone else's hardline requirements such as
| a swappable battery.
| SamBam wrote:
| Exactly. I've _long_ dreamt of a "dumb" phone that has a
| text-only screen, can do text and calls, have a great
| camera, and also do WhatsApp (text only) because that's
| an important mode of communication for me. But those are
| *my* requirements, so I know it's not going to be built
| because hardly anyone will have my exact requirements.
| CountSessine wrote:
| Among smartphone customers, what do you think the numbers are
| for customers who prefer a big phone vs a little phone?
|
| 99/1?
|
| 90/10?
|
| 80/20?
|
| I don't know this myself. But I figure that if no one is
| stepping into this market, it's probably pretty damn small.
| bscphil wrote:
| I'm not sure why you're asking me, but the OP's site says
| that 5% of iPhone orders (10 million phones a year) are the
| mini. That's quite a large market in absolute terms.
| hedora wrote:
| I'd prefer the mini, but want a better camera.
|
| If the camera were the same, I suspect many, many more
| people would buy the mini.
| lowercased wrote:
| See post above re: manufacturers.
|
| I think this is at least partially a feedback loop issue.
| There aren't manufacturers even making small screens, and
| the time/cost of doing that isn't seen as worth investing
| in... because... look at what's selling - larger screens! -
| which are the only thing we're selling because... look at
| what's selling!
|
| A small niche player that wants to try a different form
| factor/size isn't practically able to enter the market with
| anything but commodity screens.
| gryfft wrote:
| > until it breaks, becomes unusable
|
| I decided to die on a different hill-- physical keyboard. The
| blackberry keytwo wasn't perfect but it was definitely one of
| my favorite devices I've ever owned.
|
| And now AT&T will no longer support phone calls on it.
| Planned obsolescence isn't so easy to run and hide from. They
| will dash your usable, friendly, pleasing devices from your
| hands and sneer at you for daring to want better.
| bluGill wrote:
| PinePhone is the only phone I know of with a keyboard. It
| has lots of other issues that you might not be able to
| accept, but it is an option.
| jacobsenscott wrote:
| > some people are more willing to compromise than me
|
| s/some/most/
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| Smart phones are too useful and becoming too ingrained to
| life for the vast majority of people to not buy a phone off
| some sort.
| Groxx wrote:
| Yeah, due to the ever-increasing difficulty of buying
| reasonably-sized phones, I've been keeping my phone longer
| and longer, well past the point of lag and annoyance where
| I'd prefer to buy a new one.... because there is no new one
| that I want. They're too big. They're _worse for me_ than an
| out-of-support old phone that limps along and may require a
| third-party OS.
|
| All told, I've probably bought less than half as many phones
| as I'd prefer. Yes, I do eventually buy one because they
| effectively are required nowadays, but that's quite a lot of
| money that isn't going into these company's hands.
|
| Meanwhile, the rest of the market also seems to be
| lengthening their time between phone purchases..... and phone
| manufacturers respond by releasing bigger and more expensive
| phones year over year over year. I won't try to claim it's
| the _majority_ of the cause, but surely there 's _some_
| connection between those two.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| > Big companies are drowning in market data. They know some
| people really, really want small phones. But it's a long-tail
| opportunity they're willfully ignoring, and people who need
| phones will still buy something even if reluctantly. I've been
| in the meetings, small phone advocacy goes nowhere.
|
| I love my iPhone 12 mini and prefer the form factor, but will
| go bigger, because of battery life.
| usrusr wrote:
| "and people who need phones will still buy something even if
| reluctantly"
|
| So true... And my anecdotal observation suggest another detail
| that makes small unattractive to brands: the way my social
| circles happen to be, I crossed path with plenty of owners of
| various incarnations of the Xperia Compact (r.i.p.). If my
| observations where representative, the Compacts would come
| close to outnumbering iPhones. They all wanted a small phone,
| somewhat waterproof and with a reasonably good camera. Almost
| all of them identifying strongly with some outdoor hobby like
| cycling or rock climbing, but wouldn't want a dedicated
| "outdoor" or "sports" phone. So far so good, looks like a
| pattern. But they have another thing in common: none of them
| would ever consider buying a high end phone (the Compacts were,
| or reasonably close) at or near release price.
| oceanplexian wrote:
| > Big companies are drowning in market data. They know some
| people really, really want small phones. But it's a long-tail
| opportunity they're willfully ignoring
|
| I would argue that they don't know what people want at all,
| since market data just reinforces previously held assumptions.
| For example if you surveyed people in 2006 what kind of phone
| they wanted, most consumers would probably ask for a better
| flip phone. It wasn't until Apple came along and defined a new
| market that Smartphones even became a thing in the mainstream
| consciousness.
| sorry_outta_gas wrote:
| > most consumers would probably ask for a better flip phone
|
| I'm not sure about that, sidekicks, plan and blackberry were
| pretty popular and gaining a lot of mainstream interest for
| modern 'smartphone' type things
| stingrae wrote:
| Unfortunately it has been tested. Rumors say that there won't
| be an iPhone 14 mini. (Sent from an iPhone 12 mini).
| chirau wrote:
| Last month I had to use an Essentials PH-1 phone for a day
| while i waited for a new phone. It was the perfect size for
| me and the build quality was really nice. Unfortunately, the
| OS was outdate and the specs not as high. It has 4GB RAM,
| Snapdragon 825, 13MP camera @ 2160p and a 5.7" display.
|
| It looked premium, it felt premium and was the perfect size.
| If someone could pack more punch with specs in that phone I
| would buy it for even $1k.
| toqy wrote:
| Smaller screened smartphones aren't a new market that needs
| to be defined though. Most people know what they are by
| virtue of having lived through the era that they were the
| only choice.
|
| And as OP pointed out, Apple makes a smaller screened
| smartphone, so they exist. In some comment on this post
| someone said that it accounts for 3% of Apple's phone sales.
|
| How big is the group of people that want a smaller smart
| phone but aren't willing or able to switch to Apple? Who
| knows. My intuition says not many, but maybe we'll find out
| through OP's efforts. I'm an iPhone user and the only reason
| I haven't switched to something like the iPhone Mini is
| because I want the better camera on the pro's.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| Apple's limited success is not only a factor of the screen
| size but also market positioning. The mini is inferior in
| some specs to other iPhones but at the same time really
| high end as far as mobiles in general go. That makes it a
| niche product even if screen size was not a factor at all.
|
| It targets people that have plenty of cash for a flagship
| but are willing to forego the top tier specs for a smaller
| size. Apple prefers you just buy the pro. And if you don't
| have much cash you can get the reheated 2017 iphone 8 with
| SE slapped on it :)
|
| I bet if they made a mini T the price of an SE with a more
| limited camera and screen spec than the current mini it
| would take 50% of SE sales away.
|
| You can't judge the market viability of one aspect based on
| a single model.
| zippergz wrote:
| Indeed, I desperately want a smaller phone, but I heavily
| use the camera on my phone and in the end I decided I
| wasn't willing to give up camera quality for the iPhone
| Mini. So Apple's data may suggest that I don't want a
| small phone, but the reality is that I want a small phone
| that's actually as good as the big ones. No one has
| offered that.
| bigiain wrote:
| My last couple of phone purchases have actually been
| camera purchases.
|
| I got an iPhone XR for the low light performance of the
| camera, not because I needed a new phone.
|
| I got a 13Pro for the cameras and lidar, not because I
| needed a new phone.
|
| My reality is I want a great camera that fits in my
| pocket and is durable - that also makes calls, runs
| Signal, streams Spotify/AppleMusic, and has a usable web
| browser...
| nicoburns wrote:
| > The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones but
| at the same time really high end as far as mobiles in
| general go. That makes it a niche product even if screen
| size was not a factor at all.
|
| I feel like it being smaller is a factor in it having
| inferior specs: much easier to fit a better camera etc
| into a larger body.
| hedgehog wrote:
| Even the small phone user base is probably fragmented
| between people who want a lower cost phone and people
| like me that want the Pro or better, just smaller.
| 8ytecoder wrote:
| Apple already has the SE for the low cost market. They
| have positioned the mini as the mid-range. What they're
| missing is a high-end small phone. I'd happily pay for
| it.
| derefr wrote:
| The current SE isn't a small phone; it's a _previous-era-
| of-design_ phone. It 's a phone from before phones gave
| you as much screen as would fit on the front face of the
| body. If you want that, you can just buy any new-old-
| stock phone from 5 years ago; they're all cheap, they're
| all that size, and they're all (IMHO) painful to read or
| watch anything on.
|
| A low-cost small phone would be the opposite of the SE:
| not good-specs, bad-screen; but rather all-screen, bad-
| specs. An iPhone Mini minus-minus.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| iPhone 13 mini.
|
| Having said that, the specs of the SE are nothing to
| sneeze at.
| hedgehog wrote:
| It doesn't have the full camera.
|
| Edit: I'm not sure what the disagreement is but it's
| objectively verifiable that the 13 Mini does not have the
| same camera setup as the 13 Pro.
| [deleted]
| alwillis wrote:
| _The mini is inferior in some specs to other iPhones_
|
| I'm typing this on my iPhone 13 mini; saying it's
| inferior to the rest of the iPhone 13 is an
| overstatement.
|
| All of the core features are the same as they rest of the
| line.
|
| Ironically it's the largest iPhone I've owned, having
| upgraded from an iPhone 7 and a 6s before that.
|
| There probably won't be iPhone 14 mini, so I'm glad I was
| able to get this form factor before I had no choice.
| reflexco wrote:
| They really had the room to put a x2 zoom camera on there
| though... what a shame they didn't.
| thefourthchime wrote:
| The biggest issue for me is the battery. The first mini
| had horrible battery life, I know the 13 is better. The
| fact is I'm spoiled rotten with the Pro battery life and
| don't see the size winning me over.
| yowzadave wrote:
| Same--I just bought a new iPhone...I thought the mini was
| right for me, but after three days of using it, it was
| clear that the battery life was worse than my years-old
| Pro. So I returned it and got the Pro instead.
|
| The other challenge was that I found it hard to go back
| to the smaller onscreen keyboard and display. I think I
| was deluded about my vision being as good as it was 10
| years ago!
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Wait, is the iPhone Mini larger than an iPhone 6/7/8?! I
| thought it was smaller.
| kurthr wrote:
| iPhone mini is almost exactly the same size in the hand
| (2.5" width) as the iPhone4/5 and smaller than 6/7/8/SE
| (2.7" width) , but the screen coverage/diag is
| significantly larger than the SE (85%/5.4" vs 60%/4.7").
|
| I think he meant diag screen size? The 11/12/13 are 6.1"
| while maxs are 6.7"
| alwillis wrote:
| Yes, I meant diagonal screen size.
| inferiorhuman wrote:
| Dimensions in millimeters:
|
| 13: 71.5 x 146.7 x 7.65 13 Mini: 64.2 x 131.5 x 7.65 3rd
| gen SE: 67.3 x 138.4 x 7.3 1st gen SE: 58.6 x 123.8 x 7.6
|
| I strongly prefer the 1st gen SE because it's
| significantly easier for me to use with one hand, it's
| got a completely flat back (no camera bulge), and it's
| got a headphone jack and home button.
| hamburglar wrote:
| All the same reasons for me. Plus I like cheap. I just
| bought a 3rd gen SE but only because my 7 was on its last
| legs. The idea that an iPhone 7 isn't good enough anymore
| is just absolutely silly to me. I was hoping the 3rd gen
| SE would be a throwback in size and cost $300, but I
| didn't get my wish.
| [deleted]
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I mean compared to the pro.
|
| I would consider both flagship models, considering the
| pricing. For me mid-range is < 500EUR (and normally way
| below that) so the iPhone SE doesn't even qualify here in
| Europe (it's 529EUR).
|
| My current mid-range phone is a Samsung A52s which costs
| 329EUR.
|
| But perhaps my long Android history has skewed my pricing
| concepts somewhat.
| Nition wrote:
| > How big is the group of people that want a smaller smart
| phone but aren't willing or able to switch to Apple?
|
| It just feels like surely capturing 100% of the market for
| premium small Android phones (there really are _none_ right
| now) must be at least as good as yet another large Android
| phone entering a market full of large Android phones.
| robocat wrote:
| I suspect there are two constraints working against mini
| mobiles:
|
| 1. The industry push for thin due to the consumer dislike
| of thick.
|
| 2. The invisible consumer expectation that smaller mobiles
| should be cheaper.
|
| A mini screen with a fat body (large battery, good camera)
| is what many functionally oriented people should want, but
| cost and form will limit consumer desire and make it an
| extremely niche product?!?
|
| Edit: I am thinking more Canon IXUS cross bred with a
| 20000mAh powerbank and stock Android One. In fact Canon or
| another reliable camera brand would be the perfect
| manufacturer. Fat and robust could work: sell the
| functionally ugly to practical tradesmen type?
| Unfortunately writer desires thin and light, which I don't
| care about. No need for front-facing camera, instead put a
| 1" (4:3?) screen on the side of the main camera to allow
| for pointing/framing when doing selfies.
|
| Functionally oriented people often have other constraints.
| I have tight constraints for mobiles: I am price sensitive
| (I break or lose phones), I want vanilla Android
| (manufacturer skinned often has broken upgrades & broken
| privacy & broken features), and I generally won't buy
| products from extremely niche brands (unpredictable
| reliability, & trust issues).
| Miraste wrote:
| It's been tried. Although it could've been a better
| design, it didn't go over well.
|
| https://thenextweb.com/news/bad-news-for-anyone-who-
| wanted-t...
| robocat wrote:
| !Awesome! Even if shit execution, fugly, one-trick
| gimmick, with terrible branding.
|
| * "Other manufacturers have managed to make a success of
| selling high-capacity smartphones. BlackView (and, for
| that matter, Ulephone, Doogee, and AGM) does especially
| well. Although they come with ginormous cells, they're
| primarily designed to be hardy, and can take more of a
| beating than Mickey Rourke in the boxing ring."
|
| * "French smartphone manufacturer Avenir Telecom
| attempted to crowdfund the P18K on Indiegogo, but
| ultimately failed in a way that was previously
| unthinkable for a project that's attracted so much press
| coverage and public interest. In total, Avenir Telecom
| 'sold' sixteen (absolute) units."
|
| * "there are people who would benefit from a phone with a
| 18,000 mAh battery. I'm talking about military users,
| people working in the oil and gas industry, famers, and
| even truckers. Avenir did nothing to cater to this
| valuable niche."
|
| * "The P18K, on the other hand, lacked waterproofing and
| shockproofing, making it thoroughly unsuitable for
| outdoor users."
|
| * "Avenir Telecom wanted EUR600 for a phone with the
| internals of a EUR200 phone. Without anything extra -
| like ruggedization - that's a hard sell. It just didn't
| represent good value for customers."
|
| * "Measuring several inches thick"
|
| I was exaggerating a little by saying 20000mAh: about
| 5000 to 10000 would probably be sweet.
|
| Also camera lenses on the P18K were not flush with
| reverse side - ugggh. There should be a proper shutter
| button (positioning and half-press to hold focus). Lenses
| needs protection eg. manual sliding shutter which when
| opened puts phone into camera mode (I have cracked mobile
| phone camera lenses).
|
| Plenty of people want a proper waterproof camera (low
| light, macro, Tele, optical image stabilisation) in their
| pocket, and why not combine that with hardy mobile phone?
|
| I can imagine making the screen plus battery plus the USB
| port all as a single user-replaceable part? Those are the
| usual culprits that get broken or need replacing.
|
| Edit: Slight edits above for clarity. Also see Blackview
| Pro 11000mAh https://thenextweb.com/news/this-bonkers-
| chinese-phone-holds...
| Miraste wrote:
| I think 20000mAh is achievable now. I have a 20k battery
| pack on my desk and it's pocketable, if heavy. Much
| thinner than the Energizer phone. I'm picturing your
| phone design as an original Galaxy Fold, but solid
| instead of the hinge/internal screen. The chassis could
| fit more than a 10k battery easily, and the shape is
| simple to ruggedize.
|
| > Avenir Telecom wanted EUR600 for a phone with the
| internals of a EUR200 phone.
|
| This is the big issue. Avenue's not to blame here. It's
| unavoidable, the design is just too non-standard.
|
| If you could get a military contract then it might work.
| hattmall wrote:
| I love the big battery stuff but I don't see how it's
| profitable because powerbanks, powerbanks cases, and even
| magnetic or clipon wireless charging powerbanks exist and
| can cheaply be tailored to fit tons of phones. What
| benefit would a massive battery confer over a massive
| battery bank case. One that would be swappable /
| replaceable. I only recently gave up my S5 with a
| 10,000mAh extended battery. But with powerbanks and
| wireless charging it doesn't seem like a real market
| anymore.
| fomine3 wrote:
| * Small battery capacity
|
| * Lower performance due to small battery and poorer heat
| dissipation
|
| * No physical space to put top-tier camera
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| The battery doesn't have to be small if you're okay with
| moderate thickness. And a lot of power goes to the screen
| so that cancels out. To the extent that this is true,
| you're just restating "push for thin" and it's not a
| separate problem.
|
| Lower performance than what? I'm not convinced that's a
| real issue unless you're trying to make a flagship.
|
| Why couldn't you fit a top-tier camera? That's like a
| square centimeter.
| robocat wrote:
| > That's like a square centimeter.
|
| I was thinking much larger optics and mechanicals,
| similar to a PowerShot N (except with modern video
| specs): Optical image stabilization, 8x optical zoom,
| 1/2.3" Sensor (6.17mm x 4.55 mm), Maximum aperture
| F3-5.9, Macro focus range 1cm. A real camera: even though
| I realise in the past there have been plenty of failed
| camera-phones in the marketplace!
|
| https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Canon+PowerShot+N+Teardow
| n/6...
|
| https://m.dpreview.com/products/canon/compacts/canon_n/sp
| eci...
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Oh, well that's just a phone limitation, not a small
| phone limitation.
| kingcharles wrote:
| None of the leaked specs (if real) for iPhone 14 include a
| "Mini" variant, so it looks like Apple killed theirs.
|
| I'm going to buy a 13 Mini because of Apple's long term
| support, so it should last me a good few years.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I do not care if they do not make a new mini every year.
| I just want a mini available for purchase, and the 13
| mini should be very capable for at least a few more
| years.
| usrusr wrote:
| That might actually be what Apple is doing, skipping mini
| for 14, but not stopping mini forever. Sony did the same,
| there where Compacts of Z1, Z3 and Z5.
| [deleted]
| heavyset_go wrote:
| Slate phones were already a trend before the iPhone.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| "They" say that people just don't by the smaller iPhone.
| People always go for the larger + cheaper thing.
|
| Apple has weird economics where I'm sure they profit
| handsomely from iPhone Mini, but they tend to get rid of
| things if they don't make $10b annually.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Apple has market data - they sold a premium small phone for
| two years. Rumors are that they will be discontinuing them
| this year.
| krzyk wrote:
| It was almost premium. Still didn't had Pros camera.
|
| Real example was Pixel until version 4. The only difference
| between smaller and bigger versions was the obvious screen
| and battery.
| peregren wrote:
| That's splitting hairs. Premium [?] Best in all
| components. And the iPhone 12 and 13 have sold pretty
| well by all reports so the screen size is the only
| differentiator feature wise. (And battery which is
| unavoidable)
| scarface74 wrote:
| And Google also stopped selling smaller phones...
| fomine3 wrote:
| non-mini iPhone 12/13 are sold well enough.
| johnebgd wrote:
| I've owned smart phones since the treo.
|
| I've owned blackberry phones, windows mobile, even a palm
| pre.
|
| I've had nearly every iPhone since launch.
|
| I'm on an iPhone 13 Pro Max.
|
| Nothing makes me yearn for a smaller screen.
|
| I held an iPhone 3G in my hand last week after finding it in
| a drawer and was amazed at how it felt too small to be really
| useful these days.
|
| My gal has a 13 pro max.
|
| My folks have larger phones.
|
| My siblings have larger phones.
|
| My friends, colleagues, business partners, clients, all have
| larger phones.
|
| The biggest complaint I hear is battery life.
|
| I hope small screen fans find what they want but I do not
| believe it's a big market.
| WheatM wrote:
| davidthewatson wrote:
| The reason it's not a big market is that if glove-sizing
| worked the same way as phones, you'd have people with small
| glove size walking around in ginormous gloves. That's not
| the case because glove sizing actually behaves rationally,
| as opposed to truck-sizing, where every human in America
| wants a ginormous truck regardless of their actual need.
| Sadly, phones follow trucks, not gloves, because the former
| is ego-driven, not need-driven. Apple deserves credit for
| recognizing the counter-example to its own market presence
| and engages fully around it while no competitor follows
| suit.
| jdironman wrote:
| "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said
| faster horses." - Henry Ford.
|
| However, in this day and time when it comes to established
| tech such as a smart phone, sometimes the best way to
| 'innovate' might be to give people what they actually want.
| Sure not all companies can cater all niches. But hopefully
| someone will! Im also a small phone advocate.
| kristianc wrote:
| "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have
| said faster horses." - Henry Ford.
|
| Just a note that this quote, and a similar one by Steve
| Jobs ('Market research could never have given us the
| Macintosh') are amongst the most misinterpreted in history.
| Most people see them as saying 'market research is useless'
| - what both were actually saying is that you need to take a
| new innovation to the customer and _then_ ask them what
| they think of it.
|
| So no, don't just flat out ask people what they want - but
| intuit and give people a little taste of what they could
| have - and then ask them what they think.
| perlpimp wrote:
| What people think say and do are 3 mostly unrelated
| things. so yes it really fits into whole life really.
| dismantlethesun wrote:
| Also horses that could run at 100mph for 5 hours at a time
| would be far better than early cars. They run on clean
| renewable fuel, have built in natural intelligence to avoid
| crashes and carry drunk drivers, and come in a variety of
| pleasing colors (not just black!).
|
| The main benefit of cars was that if you delay maintenance
| your transportation doesn't die.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| The emissions weren't so pleasant, however!
| 6510 wrote:
| But you do get self replication. Try wrapping your head
| around that feature.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| By the time any consumer product offers self replication
| as a feature, would anyone even remember what smartphones
| were?
| _carbyau_ wrote:
| Have people not seen _any_ sci fi with self replicating
| mechanicals? It never goes well. Humans wouldn 't be
| around for very long to remember anything at all.
| cco wrote:
| > The emissions weren't so pleasant, however!
|
| Do you mean from cars or horses? If the former, early
| automobiles were far cleaner than the animals they
| replaced (and still are). Cities faced huge issues with
| animal excrement and cars represented a cleaner
| alternative.
| bigDinosaur wrote:
| Obviously you can't do such a simplistic direct
| comparison between horse emissions and car emissions. How
| does leaded petrol play into this comparison,
| particulates, etc.
| cco wrote:
| You're totally right, my comment was far too simplistic.
| However it captures the feelings at the time, cars at
| that time were far "cleaner" in that they smelled a lot
| better, did not clog streets with excrement etc
|
| Obviously play the car out a few decades and the
| emissions were _not_ so clean.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Do you mean 10 mph?
| simondotau wrote:
| There's still a market for faster horses.
| bigiain wrote:
| There's still a market for buggy whips too.
|
| No VC firm is investing millions expecting a 100x return
| in buggy whip startups though.
| simondotau wrote:
| No, but if you need a buggy whip, they are available in
| sufficient quantity relative to demand.
| boznz wrote:
| >For example if you surveyed people in 2006 what kind of
| phone they wanted, most consumers would probably ask for a
| better flip phone.
|
| Better flip phone would be good too.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| Samsung make one called the Z-flip. Way too expensive for
| me, but to me it's the better flip phone I've been waiting
| for since 2005!
| drited wrote:
| I have the Z-Flip 3 and love it. It meets the 2 criteria
| of the post's 4 that matter to me:
|
| 1.fits nicely in pocket. I can sit down comfortably with
| it in a pair of jeans. No dodgy posture.
|
| 2. Won't fall out of my pocket
|
| Its screen is also much less likely to break like has
| happened with all my old phones when they accidentally
| fall out of jacket pocket
| metadat wrote:
| Just don't drop it on the hinge.
|
| Also the z-flip battery life is atrocious, and the CPU is
| old prev gen tech.
|
| I really want a top tier foldable.
| mgkimsal wrote:
| > and the component suppliers have also been looking at the
| trendlines so they are building bigger and bigger
|
| but... aren't they influencing the trendlines by doing this? if
| the only things manufacturers make are bigger and bigger, they
| then get to use the sale of those bigger items as justification
| to continue to make bigger items?
|
| Also seems a bit weird with more eco-awareness going on that
| some manufacturers wouldn't explore/embrace 'smaller' in some
| sense. At scale, it would mean less materials, less shipping,
| less warehouse space, etc. Apple made a huge stink about
| getting rid of a wall plug in their packaging, and... over
| hundreds of millions of units, that little bit doesn't hurt.
|
| Wouldn't more 5" screens (vs 6"+) require less power, less
| weight/shipping, and less input materials?
| achow wrote:
| iPhone mini is 3% of sale. That's the trend.
| kringo wrote:
| When did you see they promote mini? It's always the PRO
| since high margin is only there.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| What about against the regular iphone 13? I think sales
| for that are something like 5x to 10x higher.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Good point, with caveats: What is the comparison of 13-non
| pro vs. 13 mini? When I almost bought an iPhone recently,
| the thing that made me hesitate to consider for so long was
| that the mini is not pro - I want 90/120 hz, and they made
| a substandard flagship and blame poor sales on size.
| However, if the non-pro-fat 13 has great sales, you have a
| point.
|
| Second, it's only iphone. I hesitated for so long to
| consider it at all because it requires switching
| environments.
| kalleboo wrote:
| Is it even physically possible to fit all the high-end
| features in a mini? The 12 mini was panned for poor
| battery life and they just about got that fixed in the
| 13, but now you want 120 Hz (which will eat away battery
| life), someone else in here demanded all the cameras
| (which will take away internal space from battery), not
| to mention the difficulty of heat dissipation
| unethical_ban wrote:
| And here's the rub. I personally don't need the telephoto
| lens on the mini. But I tell you, after experiencing high
| refresh rate on a phone, it is terribly difficult to go
| back.
|
| Apple touts their variable refresh rate for better use of
| battery than competitors - surely they could put it on
| the mini and still get it through a day of use.
| davee5 wrote:
| Yes, it is absolutely in a feedback loop. It's kind of
| bizarre to see up close.
|
| The consumer hardware duopoly of Apple and Samsung are the
| only ones who seem to actually drive manufacturing trends.
| There are also tons of devices being made for the Chinese
| market, but you can't buy those because they're usually
| locked up in supplier agreements and honestly they don't meet
| "flagship" specs for display quality.
|
| Component suppliers, true we-make-parts manufacturers, are
| not really trying to influence the big picture so much as
| make sure they are running their manufacturing lines at
| capacity. And if they are building panels on spec for open
| market sales, they are going to build >6" displays because
| it's a higher probability they'll actually sell at volume.
| pixl97 wrote:
| "Yes, it is absolutely in a feedback loop. It's kind of
| bizarre to see up close."
|
| So supply chains behave like ecosystems.
|
| In the natural world we see insects and animals develop
| things like bright plumage and big horns because the animal
| before them was successful in doing the same thing. This
| behavior can go on for a long time too. Then an asteroid
| hits (tantamount to bad economic times) and the fast moving
| generalists seem to succeed better than the highly adapted
| specialist.
| zanderz wrote:
| All the comments about how it will be too expensive and
| difficult to source unusually sized parts make me wonder how
| they make something like the Hammerhead Karoo for $400 - an
| android device with a 3.2" sunlight readable reflective screen
| (supposedly even more expensive), custom software. etc. Is the
| market for a bike computer so much larger than that for a
| smaller phone? I don't think they're burning VC, it was
| crowdfunded IIRC.
| cehrlich wrote:
| I wonder if there isn't a third factor:
|
| 3. Android OEMs can't make a good small phone, even if there
| was the demand to produce it at scale
|
| Because of how efficient Apple's SoCs are compared to
| Snapdragons, Android phones typically have much larger
| batteries than iPhones while getting about the same battery
| life. Big battery requires a big phone. The occasional somewhat
| small Android phone (for example Galaxy S10e) tends to have
| awful battery life.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| You can make thick phone. Thick phones are much more pleasant
| to hold.
| Ajedi32 wrote:
| That's another thing I want from a phone that no OEM seems
| to want to make. Make the phone thicker, get rid of the
| camera bump, and fill the extra space with a bigger
| battery!
| msh wrote:
| The ulephone power armor series sounds just like the
| phone for you.
| nicpottier wrote:
| Pixel 5 has great battery life. Note that none of the
| requirements are that it is some game machine or anything.
| Even less than top-tier chipsets are just fine for me. I just
| want a good camera in a pocketable form factor.
| skavi wrote:
| The Pixel 5 is closer in size to an iPhone 13 than a 13
| Mini. IIRC it's nearly the exact same size as an iPhone 11
| Pro.
| Closi wrote:
| I think OP means that Android Phones with comparable
| battery life to an iOS device tend to have a larger battery
| to support that (when compared to the iPhone), which is
| more difficult with smaller enclosures (i.e. in a large
| phone it's easier to hide a large battery, and they don't
| scale entirely proportionally to screen size).
|
| i.e. the Pixel 5 will last about 10% longer than an iPhone
| 12 on a single charge, but it achieves this with a battery
| that is about 45% bigger (2,800 mAh vs 4,080mAh). Both have
| the same size screen (in fact, the iPhone is slightly
| larger).
| nmstoker wrote:
| The camera is often the reason i end up with a phone that's
| way bigger than I'd otherwise like. The Pixel 6XL has the
| better camera but otherwise I'd have been all over the 6
| (or smaller if it had they done anything in that space). My
| Pixel 4 still feels way better sized when i go back to it
| periodically.
| mayama wrote:
| There are small phones with decent battery performance in
| Android too. Zenfone 8 from last year is an example. But new
| small phones is a dying breed going forward with big players
| not interested in making them at all anymore. Only less known
| brands dab in making them or some budget phones.
| boznz wrote:
| Remove all the crapware and you are generally back to a good
| battery life
| aidenn0 wrote:
| My Unihertz Jelly2 is much smaller than TFA is asking for
| (and has a shitty camera plus midrange CPU making it
| disqualified), but battery life is Just Fine. Making the
| phone significantly larger should easily allow for a large
| enough battery for a flagship processor.
| metadat wrote:
| S10e battery life was generally fine for me, always lasting
| at least one day of typical usage, even when I was on the go
| all day.
| balaji1 wrote:
| Not intending to start a storm here.
|
| Why does the author want an Android? The iPhone mini would do
| the job right? I have a iPhone mini for the same reasons of
| size, premium feel and price.
|
| It would be cool to hear what the founder of Pebble has to
| say about "why Android". Has he said it anywhere else?
| [deleted]
| cowtools wrote:
| From the website:
|
| >[...] personally, after 6 months of iOS I am itching to
| get back to Android. Why? The notification system SUCKS on
| iOS compared to Android. It's impossible to move files
| between apps. Hard to get any work done on it. Beautiful
| hardware though!
| balaji1 wrote:
| oh yes I remember reading this now.
|
| Co-incidentally I was just glad today morning that iPhone
| doesn't show the row of small notification icons on the
| top-bar all the time. And then noticed that notifications
| don't show on the home screen also. I pulled down the
| notification list and saw a ton of notifications - I said
| no thanks and left them all unopened.
|
| I did switch from Android to iPhone recently. I think
| notifications on iPhone are way better, I get distracted
| way lesser. Tho I don't get many important or time-
| sensitive notifications. Just a bunch of transactional
| notifications.
| striking wrote:
| Article:
|
| > # Why don't you just use an iPhone Mini?
|
| > I actually do now! I switched from Android back to iPhone
| in late 2021 because the Pixel 6 was too ridiculously
| large. This was my first iPhone since the OG iPhone.
|
| > But only 5% of all iPhones sold are Minis (roughly 10m
| phones per year). This means that Apple may decide to kill
| the Mini. For Apple, 10m phones is peanuts. But for an
| independent company 10m units per year would be
| spectacular.
|
| > If Apple kills the Mini, those people will need a new
| home. An Android phone (with Beeper for iMessage) might be
| an adequate alternative.
|
| [... snip ...]
| bottlelion wrote:
| I'll speak for myself, but I don't think that the iPhone
| Mini users that chose the iPhone Mini for it's form
| factor will switch to Android. Personally, I'm all-in on
| the Apple ecosystem. I prefer the Mini, but I would chose
| an iPhone 13 Pro over any Android (large or small).
| mcv wrote:
| There used to be plenty of small Android phones. They could
| make them again. Battery life or processor power might be a
| bit less, but they used to work fine. There's no good reason
| why they can't again.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| > You will be very, very hard pressed to source a pre-existing,
| high quality, non-exclusive 5.4" display with a hole punch.
|
| I think GP probably needs to be more flexible about their
| "must-have"'s. If you could get a nice phone with a small
| screen, would a small bezel on top for a camera be such a
| disaster?
| [deleted]
| JMiao wrote:
| _Also I 'm a little surprised you're hoping an online petition
| will work after your prior experience trying to influence your
| acquirers. I presume you saw the inside of Fitbit / Google and
| how decisions are made..._
|
| probably because eric has a history of pd from a customer
| frustration pov whereas your well articulated explanation
| mainly represents manufacturers' pov.
|
| btw, such kind of math-checks-out logic is what keeps someone
| from developing the iphone in 2004. everything about mobile
| then made sense...to carriers and manufacturers.
| pkulak wrote:
| So do I. So I just bought an iPhone Mini after about 10 years of
| using Android phones. The hardware is better, notifications took
| some getting used to, but it's fine. Phones are an appliance.
|
| I think Android phones just don't have the power efficiency to be
| small anymore. End of an era.
| jacobrussell wrote:
| There is technically a mini-sized Android phone [0]; I've been
| using it for about 6 months [1].
|
| [0] https://palm.com/pages/product [1]
| https://jacobhenryrussell.medium.com/six-months-with-a-tiny-...
| jonwest wrote:
| I have one of these too. I used it for a few months and aside
| from the battery life, I loved it. I wish the bootloader
| would've been open for custom roms that could've taken
| advantage of it better, but it's been in a drawer ever since.
|
| I still wish it had a future.
| jpswade wrote:
| Is there such a thing as a stock Android OS these days?
| officeplant wrote:
| Its too bad the iPhone Mini is already dead as a size. I love
| small phones as well, but the market as a whole seems to shun our
| kind.
| pmlnr wrote:
| IMO a lot of the visual appeal of smartphone apps, mainly social
| media, would go away with small screen. I remember using my HTC
| desire to read the web and if it wasn't text, it was not great.
|
| BTW the best form factor phone I had was the Nexus 4, at 4.7". I
| would very much like that back, but without that slippery glass
| back, repairable, held together with screws, with replaceable
| battery, shipped with LineageOS or /e/. Yep, I'll keep dreaming.
| nhumrich wrote:
| Yes! Nexus 4 was a great phone.
| CarVac wrote:
| Have a headphone jack and I'm in.
| amelius wrote:
| I won't be using/recommending Android as long as it says:
|
| > This app you need wants access to all your files and photos.
|
| It's ridiculous that it's all or nothing and you cannot have more
| control than that.
| hammock wrote:
| It depends on the app. Some apps (like Telegram) request it
| that way. Other apps (like GroupMe) can somehow tap into your
| photos reel without requesting the full superhuge blanket
| permission like that. I could be wrong but as I recall that's
| my experience.
| amelius wrote:
| > It depends on the app.
|
| Yes. The problem is that apps have this power. As a user, I
| should be able to restrict access to certain folders,
| regardless of what the app requested.
| dschuetz wrote:
| I want a thicker (longer battery life), mini-sized iPhone-like
| _actual_ Linux phone.
| JoshTko wrote:
| I've had the iPhone Mini since launch and it's basically the
| perfect phone. I use it without a case and it hasn't gotten any
| scratches. Camera is excellent, video is solid, processor/RAM is
| never fully utilized, battery life is very good, if feels amazing
| to be able to use with just one hand, it's relatively light, and
| the screen color/brightness/resolution is excellent.
| reusable_batt wrote:
| kringo wrote:
| 100% with box design!
| twism wrote:
| so pixel 5?
| Julesman wrote:
| Because you want to modify it. Right? Tell me about all of your
| planned modifications. So many changes. So custom. So freedom.
| dixego wrote:
| I just don't like Apple, what's the problem?
| ccbccccbbcccbb wrote:
| + hardware camera power switch and/or physical lens cover
| yc-kraln wrote:
| Which criteria does the Asus Zenphone 8 fail?
|
| I just bought one with more-or-less the same wishlist, and threw
| Lineage on it, and it's perfect for me.
| unwiredben wrote:
| From what I've seen, the tiny Palm Phone (from TCL) didn't do
| very well, but there's still some inventory on Amazon:
| https://palm.com/pages/product.
|
| There's also the Cyrcle Phone (https://www.cyrclephone.com/)
| which doesn't seem to be for sale anymore after its Kickstarter
| and Indie Go Go campaigns.
| kk6mrp wrote:
| There are tons on ebay for good prices!
| SahAssar wrote:
| The Cyrcle Phone doesn't look small at all, just in a different
| shape. Also from the video shots it looked like the UI wasn't
| very well adapted to it's screen shape.
| csdvrx wrote:
| > From what I've seen, the tiny Palm Phone (from TCL) didn't do
| very well, but there's still some inventory on Amazon:
| https://palm.com/pages/product.
|
| The battery is the main issue, about 2h of use or 1 day if in
| power saving mode with every optimization applied.
|
| It's still good enough as a travel phone, turned on only when I
| need to call.
| mendelmaleh wrote:
| I'm still using a Pixel 5 with Android 11, so far so good. I used
| to be a hardcore Android fan, but I don't really like where it's
| going, at this point I'm almost rooting for a USB-C iPhone SE.
|
| (edit) Regarding the specifications: - don't care
| for 5G, 4G has better range and better power efficiency -
| don't care for a second rear camera, invest more into the first
| - 4h SOT seems like a pretty low target, the Pixel 5 can probably
| do 8h easily
| vladms wrote:
| What's wrong with Samsung S22? It is 6.1 inches (author mentions
| 6' but I find this close enough), cameras are great and while not
| stock Android the OneUI stuff is not annoying for me at least.
| Plus it does have some of the other ideal/nice to have, although
| not a perfect fit.
|
| I have to admit the S22 is one of the smallest high end Android
| phones that caught my eye.
| jimmaswell wrote:
| I don't get the desire for a small phone personally. Very happy
| with the S22 Ultra.
| ManBlanket wrote:
| I used a Palm, a phone about the dimensions of a business card, 1
| slammer-pog thick, and loved it. The battery life was dismal, I
| had to disable most of the software which ran in the background,
| the camera was crap, but I loved that phone. Then my stupid
| provider implemented a list of approved devices and now I'm
| schlepping around a big piece of garbage with a cracked screen. I
| want my small phone back, so bad.
| AbraKdabra wrote:
| You know what I want? I want the manufacturers to stop doing damn
| slim and thin phones and just give me a Motorola Milestone 1 type
| of phone, made of metal, not thin and packed with a giant
| battery, and a physical keyboard, I'm sick of "thinnest phone
| ev4r" being a slogan to promote a phone. Give me that and I'll be
| the first in line to buy it.
| ck2 wrote:
| Droid Mini was a great smaller phone, a bit ahead of its time in
| features but locked bootloader doomed it for 3rd party life
| extension (cyanogenmod, lineageos)
|
| https://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_droid_mini-5603.php
|
| Dang can't believe it's a decade old, I still have a few sitting
| in a box unused.
| tazjin wrote:
| > small
|
| > 5.4"
|
| Yeah, the ship well and truly has sailed on this.
| airtonix wrote:
| OP wants the Samsung s10e
| meerita wrote:
| iPhone 12 mini user here: after almost 2 years I decided to not
| buy a new mini again. The battery life is the biggest factor on
| my decision. I want a phone that lasts one day at least on full
| use, the mini once you start doing GPS the battery dies almost in
| two hours. The screen is good for messagging, some Twitter
| browsing, etc. After that it becomes painful. I'm buying the next
| model on the standard size, no need to go for the max options.
| criddell wrote:
| The iPhone 13 Mini has amazing battery life. It outlasts the
| standard size iPhone 12.
| arendtio wrote:
| My Samsung Galaxy S3 turns 10 next month and it is still in daily
| use as a second phone. The biggest reasons it is still working
| are the changeable battery, the sdcard and wireless charging.
|
| It consumed something like one battery per year, the integrated
| memory of 16GB are barely enough, but with a 64GB sdcard it
| worked fine so far. However, the mirco-usb connector became
| unstable years ago, but the wireless charging has very little
| wear and works fine.
|
| I think an updated version (new processor, new camera, more RAM,
| modern network capabilities) should be able to check most, if not
| all, of the requirements from the website.
| joshxyz wrote:
| Shut up and take my money.
| wollsmoth wrote:
| Switched to iPhone 13 pro (not even the max) from the pixel 3. It
| just seems so big but the clutch feature for me is the battery
| life. I like not having to think about it, although that's
| probably going to change as I get into the 3rd year of ownership.
|
| I thought I maybe made a mistake but then saw a Pixel 6 pro, it's
| EVEN BIGGER. I do kind of regret getting a pro, but I'm not mad
| enough about it to swap for a mini.
| secsubsc wrote:
| I am using an iPhone SE only because of its size. Android devices
| are huge, the top factor is its battery life - to have a good
| battery (as Android consumes more battery) they need to keep its
| size big.
| simonmales wrote:
| I search long for something like this, and I just bought the Asus
| Zenfone 8. It's also supported by LingeageOS.
| nfriedly wrote:
| I'd like a small premium Android phone too.
|
| I was thinking about my previous phones the other day, and I
| really miss some of the more innovative ones from HTC. I think
| the Startrek was my favorite - a Windows Mobile flip phone with a
| "dumb phone" keypad. The myTouch 3g might be next - Android with
| physical buttons and a trackball(!)
|
| Phones have gotten faster, but they keep getting bigger, the
| battery life is rarely more than a day's worth of use, and the
| "premium" ones keep getting more expensive - while simultaneously
| loosing features like expandable storage and the headphone jack.
| danielEM wrote:
| Add there 2 USB type C >= 3.1 with displayport/hdmi Alt mode,
| unlocked bootloader and I'm in
| Melatonic wrote:
| How much larger is the Sony Xperia 5 III ?
| steelframe wrote:
| I've replaced the battery twice on my Sony Xperia Z5 Compact and
| have flashed a custom AOSP build, and I will continue to keep it
| alive as long as humanly possible.
| mixmix wrote:
| I've been using my iPhone SE since 2016 and man do I wish there
| was something to switch to by now. I don't think I can stand PWM
| on newer OLED iPhones (that includes 12/13 mini) and I will
| dearly miss the headphone jack. If there were a modern (un-
| Googled) Android phone like the 1st-gen iPhone SE, I'd be ready
| to spend $800 on it, I don't even care about cameras, fingerprint
| sensors, or NFC.
| KernelPryanic wrote:
| Yes, yes, yes!
| perryizgr8 wrote:
| I was the owner of a Sony Ericsson Xperia X10 mini. It was the
| smallest phone I ever used. Fast, nice UI, fully featured, decent
| camera. The only downside was the horrible battery life. But I
| loved it, it was just so small. I miss the trend of making all
| electronic smaller and smaller.
| vbezhenar wrote:
| iPhone Mini is still huge. I want 3.5" phone. That's it.
| oleg_antonyan wrote:
| Glad to see I'm not the only one who hates big smartphones. Not
| b/c of small hands, but b/c I hate carrying plasma TV in my
| pocket. btw, let's go below 5"
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| The Galaxy S10e is my current phone, and I'm not sure what I will
| do when it stops receiving security updates. It's basically
| perfect. It still has an SD card slot. It still has a headphone
| jack. It has wireless charging. It's reasonably sized. And it had
| flagship-for-the-time specs (albeit slightly less than the
| mainline S10 or S10+). Samsung doesn't make anything comparable
| to this anymore.
|
| The only drawback is that the battery life has gotten worse since
| I originally bought it. But if I could easily swap that out, I
| would keep it for another five years.
|
| EDIT: Oh, and the fingerprint scanner on the power button seems
| to work way more reliably, IMO, than the embedded fingerprint
| scanners under the touchscreens.
| seydor wrote:
| i m stuck with S10 too (+ it has headphone jack)
|
| Disable animations and it s not really slow.
| cassepipe wrote:
| Using a refurbished Galaxy S7. It works just fine, is small
| enough and has a physical home button which I love. We don't
| need new phones. Please stop buying new phones, buy refurbished
| ones and prioritize easy to repair friendly hardware.
| iamthirsty wrote:
| The issue with refurbished ones is guaranteeing quality.
|
| If you buy from Amazon Renewed, for example, you have no idea
| exactly what you'll get. You could get a pristine unit
| without a scratch on it with a battery that has barely 10
| cycles, or you could get a well worn (with plenty of micro
| scratches and minor nicks) with a battery that's been cycled
| 500+ times. It's kind of a crap-shoot when it comes to buying
| refurbished.
|
| As someone who takes pride in keeping my phones absolutely
| perfect and even micro-scratch free, it's too much of a risk.
| cassepipe wrote:
| I bought mine on backmarket, they act as a middleman. You
| buy from a repair with a minimum six months guarantee or
| beyond. If it stops working, you can send it to repair.
| Batteries are guaranted to be at least 70% original
| capacity or have been replaced. There are different grades
| from scratched to pristine. Not sure they operate in your
| country though. Getting a former flagship phone for 150
| euros with a CPU just as good or equivalent to a new phone
| of the same price seems worth it to me. Plus it's nice not
| to have to worry about that expensive thing in your pocket.
| Normille wrote:
| I'll see your Galaxy S10e and raise you a Galaxy S7. Just the
| right size for me and still going strong, in spite of the fact
| it was second hand already, when I bought it off eBay about 4
| or 5 years ago.
|
| I really don't know why people think they need a new phone
| every year. I've had 2 in the past decade. Both bought cheaply
| second hand [previous one am HTC One M8] and I got years of use
| out of each. In fact the One M8 is still working fine, apart
| from the degraded battery life.
| askvictor wrote:
| Yeah, I'm still using an S7, similarly purchased second hand.
| Hardware is great. Have recently installed LightROM on it to
| get a more up to date Android, and it works really well. I
| tried the latest LineageOS for a brief spell, and it
| performed beautifully except that voice calls had the robot-
| voice issue that plagues Samsung phones (thanks proprietary
| drivers!)
| magnio wrote:
| Using the same phone. The glass on the back is a bit broken
| after I dropped it for like the 100th time, and the battery
| life is somewhat mediocre, but otherwise it is the best thing I
| have ever used.
|
| The S22 (standard version) has slightly bigger screen but is
| quite similar in size, so that is probably what I will use
| next.
| abvdasker wrote:
| I did exactly what you're describing. I like the S22 but it
| is a little bigger than my ideal size. My only minor nitpick
| is with the fingerprint reader being under the screen instead
| of embedded in the power button (which I loved about the s10e
| since holding it naturally would unlock the screen). Samsung
| should just make something like an S22e or 23e.
| perryizgr8 wrote:
| I've had a very similar experience with my Galaxy S10. I got
| the battery swapped a few months ago for a very reasonable
| [?]2000 ($~30) at a Samsung service centre. Now my battery life
| is back to what it used to be. I'm confident I'll keep using
| this for at least two more years.
|
| There's absolutely no replacement for this phone right now.
| Flagship specs, amazing camera, decent battery, SD card,
| headphone jack, 1440p screen. There's nothing like it.
|
| PS: the in screen fingerprint sensor was quite horrible
| initially, but updates over the years have made it quite
| similar to a regular sensor.
| pizza234 wrote:
| If you have a bit of patience, install LineageOS. Samsung
| phones have a big following in this domain - as of today
| (May/2022), even the Galaxy S3 (Neo) is supported (!).
|
| I'm not saying it's trivial (it's not hard, but has a large
| enough amount of small actions to execute), but it's definitely
| worth doubling (or more) the phone duration.
|
| The FamousProducer(tm) of my phone supported it for 3 years.
| This is terrible. LineageOS allows me to use it now - over 3
| years after the end of support. Screw FamousProducer(tm).
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| IIRC, LineageOS support for US Samsung devices with
| Snapdragon CPUs has always been very limited. Rooting them is
| difficult, if not impossible, and I seem to remember that
| doing so blows some kind of fuse in the device itself which
| then irreparably caps the battery on the device to like 80%.
|
| Given that the S10e's battery life is already waning, I'm not
| sure I want to do that. But yes! If there were a safe way to
| do so, I would gladly run LOS on the phone for ten years.
| pizza234 wrote:
| Ouch. I wasn't aware of that. I think I've rooted in the
| past the S2 and S3, but it was long ago.
|
| Another brand that seems to be well supported (although not
| as extensively, timewise, as Samsung) is Google. LineageOS
| still supports the Pixel 1.
| jen20 wrote:
| > FamousProducer(tm)
|
| Why be so coy about this? Naming and shaming should serve as
| a warning to those who might buy one expecting long term
| support, or as a spur to action towards LineageOS for those
| who many have been or are about to be blindsided by the
| support window expiring.
| pizza234 wrote:
| You're correct. The reason is not to attribute industry
| common practices to a specific company, but it makes sense
| also to expose it :) The producer is Google. I think (not
| sure) that they support their phones for 3 years.
| _emacsomancer_ wrote:
| 3 years for the older ones but at least 5 years for newer
| devices: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/445
| 7705?hl=en#z...
| zerocrates wrote:
| The previous security update window guarantee for Pixels
| from Google was 3 years. With the 6 series (I believe
| they confirmed this includes the 6a) they extended that
| to 5 years.
|
| My real problem isn't the previous 3 year window but that
| it counts from the _first_ day they sell it, not the
| _last_. I bought my current phone, a Pixel 3a, late in
| its cycle for cheaper, early in 2020. It 's now basically
| at the end of its updates because the guarantee counts 3
| years starting from the release date in mid-2019, not
| from when I bought it.
|
| 5 years is obviously preferable but I'd like them to have
| also shifted it to be based on when they stop selling
| them new.
| pmlnr wrote:
| LineageOS will probably support it forever, given they still
| release for S4.
| askvictor wrote:
| Some of the proprietary Samsung stuff (voice calls, camera)
| can be problematic. Other than that it's amazing.
| roelschroeven wrote:
| A problem is that even within the niche of small phones, not
| everybody has the same wishes.
|
| Compared to your ideal specifications, my wishes are: support for
| microSD card storage; battery that easily and reliably lasts a
| full day with moderate phone usage; fingerprint sensor, not
| necessarily on the power button; camera decent, not necessarily
| great (I don't care that much about low light performance, for
| example).
|
| I'm tempted to sign up even with the specifications as you list
| them though. Missing microSD card support could be the major
| dealbreaker. Or alternatively some other user-friendly reliable
| method of getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's
| storage, but so far I haven't found any. Early Android versions
| supporter USB mass storage and that worked pretty well, but the
| transfer method implemented on newer versions is very slow and
| never works reliably for me.
| opan wrote:
| >Or alternatively some other user-friendly reliable method of
| getting lots of files from my PC to the phone's storage, but so
| far I haven't found any.
|
| SyncThing, sftp from a termux shell, or primitive ftpd.
| jpindar wrote:
| I use Total Commander to transfer files. It has plugins for
| many different kinds of transfer, but I mainly use SMB for
| computers on my lan and sometimes sftp for others.
| scarface74 wrote:
| You want a small phone. But you want one with better battery
| life _and_ you want an Android?
|
| Between the inefficiency of non Apple ARM chipsets and the
| inefficiency of Android, that's not likely to happen.
| foresto wrote:
| > that's not likely to happen.
|
| Why not? It has happened before.
|
| My Xperia XZ1 Compact:
|
| - runs Android (I'm on Android 10, but might upgrade)
|
| - measures about 14cm diagonally and 8-9mm thick
|
| - uses around 10-15% charge per day of light use (without
| Google services)
|
| - has a standard headphone jack
|
| - has stereo speakers
|
| - has decent front and back cameras, with no bump
|
| - has a microSD slot
|
| - has a USB type C port
|
| - has a fingerprint sensor (I disabled mine)
|
| - is water-tight and dust-tight (IP68)
|
| - supports VoLTE
|
| - supports WiFi calling
|
| My previous phone was similar, and a bit slimmer. The one
| before that didn't get such good battery life, but its
| physical keyboard, swappable battery, and even smaller size
| made up for having to charge more often.
|
| Obviously, these devices are not common, but they are made
| from time to time. I'm looking at hardware right now that
| proves there is no technical barrier. I don't see any reason
| to dissuade people from asking for a new model.
| scarface74 wrote:
| It's also a phone that was first announced in 2016, by a
| company that has lost money for the past 5 years and is
| basically retreating from the global market.
|
| https://www.androidheadlines.com/2019/05/sony-mobile-
| strateg...
|
| Not exactly a ringing endorsement of its mobile phone
| strategy.
|
| And it last a long time not using any services that make
| Android what it is to most users (ie using Google service)
| is not a mass market selling point.
| foresto wrote:
| You seem to be arguing in bad faith.
|
| Being a few years old does not make my example less
| valid. (Arguably the opposite, given that it still works
| well today.) The point is that it meets GP's needs.
|
| Sony's poor marketing strategy was not caused by one
| phone model, nor is it a requirement for small phones in
| general.
|
| You could easily adjust the numbers I quoted to estimate
| battery life with Google services running. Assume half,
| or a third, if you like. It would still meet GP's needs.
| scarface74 wrote:
| A phone that is a few years old doesn't have the
| energy/battery requirements that new phones have because
| of a more memory hungry operating system that requires a
| beefier cheapest, more memory hungry cellular chipsets
| (5G), Google Services, etc.
|
| And if a company can't sell a phone _profitable_ , it's
| not a viable product.
|
| And he admits that he hardly ever uses it.
|
| And that phone will probably not work at all soon in the
| US if it doesn't support VoLTE.
| postalrat wrote:
| And what if none of what you are claiming is true?
| scarface74 wrote:
| Well it's definitely true for _his_ phone.
| foresto wrote:
| > user-friendly reliable method of getting lots of files from
| my PC to the phone's storage
|
| Have you tried KDE Connect? (Hint: It's not only for KDE
| desktop users.)
|
| https://kdeconnect.kde.org/
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Missing microSD card support could be the major dealbreaker_
|
| And for the other guy a 3.5mm jack and for a third a physical
| off switch and look at that we have too many dealbreaker
| features for the form factor.
|
| Power users tend to have more dealbreakers than the average
| consumer. Anecdotally, it seems power users prefer smaller
| phones. This might be what kills the small phone factor.
| samatman wrote:
| I believe the bit about power users is the HN effect at work,
| the main customers for small phones are people with small
| hands and/or pockets, who are disproportionally women.
|
| Women are also overrepresented in the Really Big Phone
| market, and wield them two-handed.
|
| They also trend heavily iPhone in the US market, but that
| leaves plenty of alpha for the manufacturer who serves the
| actual market for small-form-factor Android phones.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| As a non-power-user, I mostly keep my phone in the pocket,
| where I'd like it to be small.
|
| I'd almost go for a dumb phone, almost... but then I need
| emails, maps and WhatsApp.
|
| I don't need 50 filters, 3 cameras, razor-thin (yet somehow
| enormous) body, more Storage than my laptop, etc etc...
| daemin wrote:
| Yeah, I really wanted to ditch owning a phone at all when
| my last one broke but I realised that too many services
| require having some sort of authenticator or phone for
| two factor authentication. Banks literally require having
| a mobile phone as they will require you to authenticate
| transactions through their app. So I'm still chained to
| the damn thing.
| jjav wrote:
| > As a non-power-user, I mostly keep my phone in the
| pocket, where I'd like it to be small.
|
| > I'd almost go for a dumb phone
|
| But nobody makes a small dumb phone either! I'd be ok
| with a dumb phone, if it is small.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Android manufacturers besides Samsung already don't make
| any money. The last thing they are going to do is go after
| an even smaller niche.
| stormbrew wrote:
| I agree with this. Power users are a tiny market compared
| to "people who can't reasonably fit a modern phone in their
| pocket."
|
| But if you have to keep your phone in a purse anyways, why
| not just get a big one?
|
| So mostly the people in that market who still care are the
| ones who can't or don't want to carry a purse, which is
| also a smaller market. (I'm in this market though, so i am
| sad)
| rst wrote:
| Not everyone wants a phone that they _have_ to operate
| two-handed -- particularly those with small hands to
| begin with.
| stormbrew wrote:
| Again, i think the phenomenon here is similar: if you
| can't even get a phone you can operate one handed
| properly, you may as well get a bigger screen anyways.
|
| I'm not saying that this is people's preferred choice,
| I'm saying it's a logical decision given the choices
| available that seems counterintuitive from first
| principles (and assuming a market with real choices).
| cannam wrote:
| And it's been a long time since _any_ available phone
| could be operated one handed by most users. An iPhone
| Mini isn 't really one-handable either.
|
| I am the small-phone-lover this article is addressing,
| and I did sign up to their list - I have an Xperia XZ1
| Compact and no plans to upgrade because there's nothing
| to upgrade it to - but my biggest complaint about the
| Compact is that it's too big already. I'm a not-quite-
| six-foot man and I can't reach to buttons in the corners
| one handed. So why bother? It seems that my preference is
| not entirely rational after all.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| This. I would be willing to bet 99.9% of the human
| population do not have fingers long enough to operate the
| iphone 13 mini completely onehanded, i.e. reach all 4
| corners of the screen without letting the phone slip.
|
| The actual market for a truly one handle-able phone is
| enormous. It's just not possible to fit modern phone
| functions into a package that small though.
|
| Who will pay flagship prices for a phone with 3 hours of
| battery life?
| stormbrew wrote:
| Even the SE is rough, and my hands aren't particularly
| small.
| eropple wrote:
| The evidence suggests that most folks do, though.
|
| I don't, to be clear--I'm on your side here. My iPhone 11
| is way too big, I just needed a new phone during that
| spot where the SE was long in the tooth. But people
| genuinely seem to _like_ dinner plates as phones.
| pessimizer wrote:
| No, just do all three of those things. Add a couple
| millimeters to the thickness.
| debaserab2 wrote:
| I definitely want a smaller phone but I don't know that I'd
| call myself a power user given that I use my phone less now
| than I have in the past 5 years - but it has been a total
| replacement for things like photography.
| kuschku wrote:
| The Moto G (2013) had a microSD slot, a 3.5" port and all of
| it in a 4.5" form factor.
|
| Why can't we just get an updated version of that?
| stevekemp wrote:
| I started with one of those, and every two-three years I
| upgrade to the most recently available one.
|
| Over time the MotoG phones have been getting larger - to
| the extent that now the one I have doesn't fit in my
| sporran, if I go out wearing a kilt.
| BucketsMcG wrote:
| I love this. I propose we henceforth judge all phones by
| the sporran test.
| tom_ wrote:
| It didn't have an SD card slot of any kind!
| gusgus01 wrote:
| Wikipedia says it did, at least on the LTE model.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moto_G_(1st_generation)
|
| Edit: ah found another source as well about it being on
| the LTE model https://www.phonearena.com/phones/Motorola-
| Moto-G-LTE_id8655
| frostwarrior wrote:
| I disagree. I bet many average consumers would want a small
| phone for work, travel, etc.
|
| IMHO vendors try not to sell small flagship phones so you
| have to buy a foldable phone, which is way more expensive.
| masklinn wrote:
| > I bet many average consumers would want a small phone for
| work, travel, etc.
|
| They neither say they do nor buy those which are available.
|
| Maybe they'd like a smaller phone for a limited set of
| situations (though there's no evidence of that) but they're
| not going to buy two phones, so that's not relevant.
|
| It's like asking a single-issue voter their preference on
| other subjects.
| onli wrote:
| You shouldn't be downvoted. It's exactly the problem. My main
| factors are: Replaceable battery, headphone jack, LineageOS (or
| other custom rom) support. If those are matched the smaller the
| better - I loved my HP Veer, which I admit did not meet these
| requirements - but without them size is not the main factor.
|
| Those additional requirements further splinter the market.
|
| But what's the point in buying a small phone if it does not
| meet these standards, which are all about longevity? Then it
| will just be unusable in ~2 years. Which would make it no
| better than the otherwise perfect small phone I already have at
| home, the Veer.
| nabakin wrote:
| > Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that
| worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on
| newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me.
|
| Have you tried both connecting your phone to your computer via
| USB and connecting your phone to a USB stick?
| roelschroeven wrote:
| Connecting my phone to a USB stick is not something I have
| tried yet. I wasn't even aware that that's supposed to
| work.Thanks, I'll give that a try.
| 29083011397778 wrote:
| > Early Android versions supporter USB mass storage and that
| worked pretty well, but the transfer method implemented on
| newer versions is very slow and never works reliably for me.
|
| Sounds like you haven't been using ADB. Normally, like you've
| seen, getting files on or off a modern Android handset is a
| terrible experience. Considering I only do bulk transfers from
| my own PC, I just apt install adb, then adb push $files
| $destination. _Highly_ recommend - it 's one of the few ways
| Android is still dramatically better for techy users.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I have to say, I do like the form factor of the iPhone Mini. Not
| enough to buy one, because my aging eyes prefer a larger screen
| now, but it really does feel nice in your hand. Just fits, no
| stretching, a perfect fit.
|
| The problem, of course, is much like brown manual diesel station
| wagons, it's a small but vocal niche and there may not be enough
| actual buyers to justify it. Apple's sales figures are large
| enough that it may very well 'big enough' for them, but is that
| true for any individual Android manufacturer?
| CurrentB wrote:
| Don't have much to add here but I desperately feel the need to +1
| this in case any manufacturers are paying attention. Every phone
| I bought was google's latest flagship since the G1 came out,
| including the most recent pixel 6 (non pro). I absolutely hate
| the size of it and went back to my pixel 4. I really am
| disappointed that google is forcing me to shop around more, and
| that apparently there aren't any great options.
| dr_pardee wrote:
| Finally, a phone aimed at me! GREATEST PHONE EVER. I told Eric we
| could do this and he went ahead and did this. He's a genius, not
| like me, I'm an ultra genius, but good guy - Donald Trump
| lormayna wrote:
| One of my first Android phones was an Sony Ericsson Xperia X10
| Mini Pro. It was great except the low resolution display and
| camera and bad touchscreen. I will buy a similar phone with new
| Android version.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| There are 120 Android phones with 4G that are 5.8" or smaller,
| since 2019. Of those, the best are probably the Cat S62 Pro,
| Pixel 4 or 3, Fairphone 3+, and Samsung Galaxy S10e.
| https://www.gsmarena.com/results.php3?nYearMin=2018&fDisplay...
|
| Palm released a _tiny_ Android phone in 2018, but the performance
| was crap so it didn 't sell. Smaller phone means smaller battery
| and fewer cutting edge components, unless you fab everything
| yourself, making it more expensive. The tradeoffs don't work
| unless you're the richest company in the world.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > The tradeoffs don't work unless you're the richest company in
| the world.
|
| More accurately, I think that would be "unless you sell the
| most phones in the world." A niche iPhone still sells more
| phones than Google.
| jl6 wrote:
| If this thread proves anything it's that there is huge demand for
| customizable phone designs. Currently, there is total reliance on
| economies of scale to make standardized SKUs affordable.
|
| Imagine if you could figure out a way of manufacturing a phone
| with design on demand... imagine a configurator website where you
| adjusted sliders and tickboxes. Headphone jack here, screen size
| slider all the way to the left, battery size all the way to the
| right, pick your color, oops you can't have IP68 because you
| selected the pop-out camera...
|
| Like variable fonts, but for hardware.
|
| Frankly I've no idea how you would do it.
|
| But that's the level of innovation required to unlock this
| market.
| Gigachad wrote:
| It's not even close to possible. Phones are likely the most
| advanced items in human history. So far beyond anything else
| you'd interact with. It's only possible through hundreds of
| thousands of people working on mass production and research.
|
| You could make customisable phones but they wouldn't be
| anywhere near as good as mass market phones.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > If this thread proves anything it's that there is huge demand
| for customizable phone designs.
|
| I think it just proves what we already know -- there is a vocal
| minority (but strong emphasis on _minority_ ) who would like a
| customizable phone. The market largely doesn't seem to care.
| And it may even actively discriminate _against_ customizable
| phones by ensuring they had no resale value. The more custom
| you want it, the fewer people who want to buy that particular
| device.
| Gigachad wrote:
| You really only get to have one obscure requirement. If you
| want a small phone, the mini exists. If you want a phone with
| a headphone Jack, those exist. Once you start stacking up
| two, three or four odd requirements, you'll never get what
| you want.
|
| The problem with targeting small markets is almost everyone
| in the group wants absolutely everything the way they expect.
| There isn't a "small phone market" there is a "small android
| phone with removable sd card and 3 cameras" market and a
| "small android phone with one camera but a replaceable
| battery at $400" market.
|
| And then it just becomes literally impossible to make work so
| we have mass market products only.
| automathematics wrote:
| For me, must have: - Wireless Charging
|
| Nice to Have: - Higher refresh rate screen!
|
| Just because we're small doesn't mean we need to have worse
| feature sets!
| unixhero wrote:
| The Razer 5G from Motorola is small
| aimor wrote:
| I really liked my Xperia XZ2C, until the touch screen started
| glitching out. I'd love to hear if anyone has a solution for this
| common problem (touch becomes unresponsive, or goes wild, and is
| fixed temporarily by locking the screen or squeezing the screen).
|
| I'm glad the author mentioned weight, as I think it should be
| added to the list of requirements. The iPhone6 is 129 g and feels
| light, the iPhone13 mini is 141 g, my XZ2C is 168 g and is heavy
| enough I think it causes wrist pain, while the Pixel 5a is 183 g!
| aimor wrote:
| Might be a grounding issue, solved by separating the screen and
| the battery.
|
| https://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xz2_compact-reviews-908...
|
| "U must open the case and Put some sticker behind the lcd.ghost
| touch happen cause have contact between lcd and battery.
| Grounding issue"
|
| I'm willing to try it.
| sroussey wrote:
| The problem with the iPhone Mini was that it was not a Pro and
| this not all the cameras, etc.
|
| It would have sold like hot cakes! I would have paid extra for a
| smaller iPhone Pro.
| gsich wrote:
| Galaxy S7, the last usable Samsung phone.
| foobarbecue wrote:
| Me too! AT&T kicked my xperia mini off their network for no good
| reason. I bought a pixel 4a which was the smallest compatible
| thing I could find. I also bought a Chinese 4g smartwatch hoping
| I can use that as a phone.
| steanne wrote:
| t-mobile did the same thing to my z1 compact, but i bought a
| used xz1 compact and they allowed it.
| foobarbecue wrote:
| update: AT&T won't let the Pixel 4a on either! Time to switch
| networks.
| hsuduebc2 wrote:
| Smallest I got from Samsung is Galaxy A52 which is ridiculous.
| Please make it more compact.
| brk wrote:
| What I really want is both, a larger phone (for me happens to be
| iPhone) for "most of the time" and a smaller phone for occasional
| use. I want them to have the same phone number and keep data in
| sync, basically like two extensions of the same line. However,
| I'm not willing to pay my carrier a premium/additional monthly
| cost just to have two phones that cannot be used simultaneously.
|
| Much of this is able to be done with wifi, but not via the
| cellular networks (without additional costs).
|
| In other words, there is no ideal one-size-fits-all option, and
| I'd be willing to pay for additional hardware to give me choice
| of what to carry at any given time, but I do not want to pay
| Verizon just for the privilege of having a 2nd SIM provisioned
| (and I do not want to swap SIMs).
| ris58h wrote:
| Foldables.
| soheil wrote:
| I've had one for 2 years now. Love it and agree with all Eric's
| points except
|
| > are easy to use one-handed without dropping
|
| I find it very hard to use one handed and it keeps slipping
| through my fingers if I try to type on it one handed. Also my
| finger constantly partially block the rear camera when taking
| pictures. It probably has something to do with the size of my
| hands. Otherwise, I love how light it is and you barely notice it
| in your pocket when walking or biking.
| TheRealNGenius wrote:
| stop whining and be the change you want to see in the world.
| source some parts from China and make it yourself.
| nathell wrote:
| Yes please. Before I switched to the iPhone, I was using the
| Xiaomi Mi A1, which ticked a lot of the boxes for me (stock
| Android!) while also having a great bang-for-buck value; but I'd
| still have preferred it in a smaller form factor.
| hammock wrote:
| Shameless plug for the Jelly 2.
| https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2
|
| It's not a "flagship" but it is fully featured - nothing spared -
| and half the size of my palm. The screen is just small enough to
| be too annoying to do anything really distracting on. I have
| gotten NOTHING but compliments on it since I started using it a
| month ago (on a reco I picked up here).
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| I have a Unihertz Titan Pocket (physical keyboard). I'm
| planning to get the new slim model when it comes out.
|
| These are top of the line phones, but they're very solid.
| Unihertz is making some good devices.
| NoraCodes wrote:
| The Titan Pocket looks amazing but I'm a bit unsure about the
| company's track record regarding android updates. Do you get
| regular security updates?
| giaour wrote:
| How long does the battery last? Does the phone feel thick in
| your pocket? (From the photos, it looks like the device is
| about the same width and height as a 2020 iPhone SE but
| significantly thicker.)
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| Battery last _very long_. Probably 2+ days on a full
| charge. I don't actually know. It last so long that I don't
| really have to worry about it.
|
| Size profile is basically the same as an old school
| Blackberry. No problems with it.
| persedes wrote:
| +1 for the jelly 2. It works perfectly for everything I "need"
| a smart phone for.
|
| Just be aware the the Wifi often drops and battery life is 1.5
| days at best. But again, makes it really easy to not do
| anything distracting on it lol
| pcurve wrote:
| love it. looks like a phone you can throw across the room
| awalGarg wrote:
| Can you release the kernel sources? Thanks.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| One concern with a very small phone is that it necessarily has
| a very small battery. If you can charge frequently, or you only
| use the phone for an occasional text message it may be OK for
| you, but if you're checking it every few minutes and active on
| social media you'll likely not be happy with it.
| hammock wrote:
| With regular use the battery lasts about as long as the
| iPhone 13 Pro, that is to say, slightly less than a full day.
| But the point of this phone is that ideally you are using it
| less.
| brnaftr361 wrote:
| I didn't find this to be true with the XZ1 Compact, and it in
| fact consistently outlasted everyone else's phones despite
| similar use profiles.
| sanitycheck wrote:
| I'm still using one, and the battery still lasts 2+ days
| between charges. All these people saying we can't have a
| compact phone with decent battery life, a headphone jack
| and an SD card slot are either uninformed or weirdly
| disingenuous.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| That's good to know. My impression was based on other
| comments I had read (in particular about the Unihertz
| Jelly) and it seeming to make sense intuitively.
| dskloet wrote:
| Why not use the third dimension and make it thicker to fit a
| decent battery?
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Thicker would not be an issue for me (up to a point).
| Especially on a very small phone. Would probably make it
| easier to hold.
| csdvrx wrote:
| > It's not a "flagship" but it is fully featured - nothing
| spared - and half the size of my palm
|
| How does it compare to the palm phone PVG100, usually available
| for 1/3 of the price? (new but in OEM box)
|
| It seems much thicker.
|
| Also, which network are you using?
|
| https://www.unihertz.com/blogs/news/about-at-t-usage-in-the-...
|
| > Recently, AT&T released a whitelist of smartphone brands that
| will continue to work on their network after February 2022.
| Unfortunately, Unihertz products are not among them.
|
| I hope someone sues AT&T for its discriminative policy.
| hammock wrote:
| Verizon. Not familiar with PVG100, looks interesting though.
| Thanks for the tip
| csdvrx wrote:
| > Verizon
|
| Then just get a PVG100, it supports all the features as it
| was made for this network!
| reaperducer wrote:
| Thanks for posting that. At first glance, it looks like one of
| those $20 burner phones from 7-Eleven, but looking more
| closely, it seems much better than that.
|
| Love the idea of the IR remote. I miss that from my PalmPilot.
| bityard wrote:
| Oh man, that thing is _adorable_ and the price is certainly
| right.
|
| (Unfortunately I am personally looking for something in between
| this and today's "phablets".)
| fwipsy wrote:
| Unihertz has some other phones in different sizes, like the
| ruggedized Atom L/XL with a 4" screen.
| amyjess wrote:
| I think I might actually get this. How well does this work with
| Google Fi?
|
| So years and years ago, when my main phone was a Nokia N900, I
| would occasionally walk into phone stores and see what was out
| there out of sheer curiosity. One day I saw an HTC Wildfire S,
| and I fell in love with the form factor right away.
| Unfortunately, I never bought it because I had my N900 and it
| was just too damn _useful_ to justify giving it up for a cheap
| Android phone, and to this day I regret not buying one. It was
| so small and so cute and I wanted it, and now even if I do buy
| a used one on eBay it 'll just be a glorified brick because it
| doesn't have LTE and no apps will run on its ancient version of
| Android. This is the closest thing I've ever seen to the HTC
| Wildfire S since... I think I actually will buy it, at least as
| a backup device.
| 0x38B wrote:
| This looks great. I left my Pixel 2 for a Nokia flip phone
| running KaiOS for half of 2021, but the OS was underwhelming,
| with broken WebDav syncing that required me to manually import
| contacts and forgo my calendar.
|
| I then upgraded to an iPhone SE, but miss Android apps like
| Termux, PDANet, and MiXplorer. iOS lacks compelling
| alternatives: A-Shell, iOS-Socks-Proxy (running in A-Shell),
| and Apple Files + Readdle's Documents are decent, but don't
| measure up to the aforementioned Android apps.
|
| All that makes the Jelly 2 an attractive choice. It ticks the
| essential smartphone boxes but discourages excessive use (doom
| scrolling, Instagram, TikTok, Hacker News, etc).
| arkad wrote:
| > The screen is just small enough to be too annoying to do
| anything really distracting on
|
| I'm a happy user of Jelly 2 for a half year now and I bought it
| for this single reason. It's fully featured so you can do
| anything, but the screen is so small that you do it only when
| there's a real need, so I'm not wasting time staring at the
| phone for no real reason.
|
| Cons: My co-workers make fun of me :)
|
| Edit: formatting
| manmal wrote:
| I can imagine there will often be comments along the line of
| ,,What's that, a phone for ants?"
| twibird wrote:
| They're just Jelly
| mcdonje wrote:
| Is it waterproof? A small phone like this would be ideal for
| working out or hiking. But between sweat and rain, I'd want it
| to be waterproof for those scenarios.
| hammock wrote:
| Haven't tested it. It has a headphone jack so probably not
| waterproof
| mcdonje wrote:
| Thanks. You're probably right. After my comment, I found
| the rest of their lineup, and it looks like the one that
| would suit my needs is the Atom:
| https://www.unihertz.com/products/atom
| smallerfish wrote:
| I have a unihertz Atom XL.
|
| Pros:
|
| - Battery lasts for 3 days with my usage (browsing when not at
| my desk, whatsapp, a handful of calls, android auto)
|
| - Rugged / waterproof (IP68)
|
| - Fits nicely in your hand
|
| - 48 MP camera - not as good as Pixels, but good
|
| - Good dual SIM setup
|
| Cons:
|
| - Thick; probably mostly due to the battery. Doesn't bother me,
| but if you wear skinny jeans and carry your phone in your front
| pocket it'll be noticeable
|
| - Just got Android 11
|
| - The built in walkie talkie is something of a gimmick since it
| chews up battery in standby/monitor mode. I thought it would be
| a useful backup since we live in the sticks w/o reliable phone
| signal. Get the Atom L instead
| ourmandave wrote:
| I had the Atom until AT&T said it wasn't compatible with
| their 5G forced switch over. Now I have the cheapest android
| they offer until I can find something else.
|
| I had an original Jelly but battery life was miserable.
| eikenberry wrote:
| You could also switch to T-mobile or Verizon. Though you
| probably already thought of that.
| ourmandave wrote:
| Yeah, in my area T-Mobile isn't. And Verizon is amazing
| but triple what I'm paying now.
| eikenberry wrote:
| Don't know if you checked recently but Verizon was always
| way more expensive here as well but about a year or so
| ago we noticed they had started offering must more
| competitive pricing for families/individuals.
| ourmandave wrote:
| I used to have Verizon so I get emails and flyers touting
| plans starting at $90/month (but only for the first
| year).
|
| Except I'm on AT&T pay-as-you-go for $30/month so I don't
| even look anymore.
| BenjiWiebe wrote:
| Check MVNOs out, if you want Verizon service without
| Verizon pricing. US Mobile and Red Pocket are two that
| I'd suggest.
| cmurf wrote:
| <3 this is awesome! It even has NFC! So you can use Google Pay
| with it? WiFi calling? Looks like the perfect Google Fi and
| international travel phone too with all the bands it supports.
| riccardomc wrote:
| I also have a Jelly 2, I really like it and I used it as my
| main phone for a month.
|
| The reason I switched back to my Samsung Galaxy is because I
| changed job and will need to use it for work, and frankly the
| Jelly is just too small to be efficient.
|
| It is otherwise an amazing little phone.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I love my Jelly 2. The only thing that it skimped on was the
| camera. The primary camera is worse than my Moto G5 was. It's
| adequate for my primary usage of "taking pictures of things I
| need to remember (serial numbers, receipts &c)" but nearly
| useless as a general purpose photography tool.
| hammock wrote:
| A good camera is the literal sole reason I still have an
| iPhone as an option alongside my Jelly 2
| doliveira wrote:
| Do you have any issues with apps and layouts misbehaving
| because of the small screen? Being annoying to type on is a
| feature, but is it basically impossible?
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I have one too. The main issue I have is some dialogs will
| need scrolling to see all options (FairEmail is the worst
| offender of the apps I use).
| hammock wrote:
| Sometimes websites with big popups fuck with you, but then
| again we ought to be avoiding those websites anyway. I
| haven't noticed any issues with apps.
|
| Typing is much easier than you would think. With swipe typing
| it's almost at par.
| doliveira wrote:
| Cool. What about typing passwords, codes, numbers? I'd
| wager without social media those would be the most common
| things I'd type
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I have one too, and I was suprised by how "not bad" it is
| for this. I can reach each key with my thumb, so I get
| muscle memory for each letter. The only issue I have is
| hitting W instead of E, as E is super common and it's far
| from the lower right corner.
|
| I also use bitwarden for passwords, so the main thing I
| type without swype is the passphrase for bitwarden, and
| proper names that autocorrect will then proceed to change
| to the wrong thing afterwards anyways (just like a big
| android phone).
| hallway_monitor wrote:
| Lastpass mostly prevents needing to manually enter login
| info, even though the automatic activation only works 70%
| of the time.
| hammock wrote:
| I save everything in Google, which helps me autofill
| passwords, credit cards, addresses, emails, etc.. _ducks_
| NearAP wrote:
| This resonates with me (I'm an iPhone user).
|
| Never been a fan of the large phones which was why I held on to
| my iPhone 6S for a very long time (compared to how frequently
| folks upgrade) before finally upgrading to an iPhone 12 mini
| (when I ran out of space on the 6S).
| hsuduebc2 wrote:
| I'm suspecting developers of phone that that they don't want to
| downgrade resolution of whole display because of marketing but
| making higher DPI phones is more than expensive.
| londgine wrote:
| The galaxy xcover 5 is really good
| https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover_5-ampp-10718.ph...
| 5.3 screen, full rectangular screen (no notch or hole),
| replaceable battery and dual sim. It is unfortunately Samsung, so
| it has their bloat. But that isn't too bad.
| gridder wrote:
| I want an iPhone Mini Pro. Please Apple do it!
| supermatt wrote:
| I want an iPhone mini sized iPhone pro :/
| gridder wrote:
| Same. Please Apple!
| exabrial wrote:
| how about expandable storage and headphone jack while we're at
| it? We can keep more phones out of the landfill and hone back
| production of newer stuff.
| conaclos wrote:
| I own a Samsung A3 2017 that measures 66x135mm (4.7" screen). It
| is even smaller than iPhone 12 mini. It is really hard nowadays
| to find such a small phone.
| magneticnorth wrote:
| I just made the switch from Android to iPhone, entirely because I
| wanted a small phone that still has a good camera and good
| battery life. If iPhone discontinues the mini or there's a small
| Android phone on the market that meets my needs, I'd switch back
| happily.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| https://palm.com/pages/product
|
| The small Android phone already exists.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Android(tm) Security Patch Level: September 2020
|
| :/
| coolg54321 wrote:
| I think sony xperia 5 iii is the closest you can get, may be a
| tad big 6.1", but it has everything flagship snapdragon, stockish
| android, 5G, 8/128 GB, NFC, 3 rear cameras, IP68, Fingerprint
| sensor on power button, big 4500mah battery with added on goodies
| like sd card, 3.5mm jack
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| nikonyrh wrote:
| Sub 6 inches, why not sub 5? Six inches is about 28% larger than
| a Samsung A3 from 2017.
| reusable_batt wrote:
| yeellow wrote:
| Funny thing is that I still use my Samsung Note 3 (8 years old
| and kicking, with Android 11) and what was considered
| ridiculously large phone when I got it (people were laughing at
| me) is now the smallest one around. It was interesting to observe
| this gradual shift in perception, especially among those who were
| laughing at me back than :)
| aceazzameen wrote:
| I hear ya! My previous phone was a Note 4. My current phone is
| still a Note 8. I thought that was a big jump in size! Phones
| today are even bigger, and I'm done going up in size.
| perardi wrote:
| _"matching size and design of iPhone 13 Mini"_
|
| So, by all accounts, the iPhone mini has been an extremely slow
| seller.
|
| https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-unpopula...
|
| Why would that form factor succeed in the Android space?
|
| ---
|
| I see these meme on tech sites all the time: "oh phones are too
| big I just want something simple". That is a valid sentiment that
| I think is shared by basically no average consumer. For a _lot_
| of people, phones are their primary computing devices, so a big
| screen is nice there. Bigger phones allow for more battery
| capacity. Aging populations like them because you can use screen
| zoom features to really blow up that text size without making the
| effective viewport too small.
|
| And...people just like big stuff. I know that's simplistic and a
| little condescending, but then look at SUV and truck sales.
| aiisjustanif wrote:
| > I know that's simplistic and a little condescending, but then
| look at SUV and truck sales.
|
| I knew the response sounded American, then this clarified it.
| I'd like to see the sale of phone sizes by country.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Another under-mentioned reason is that iPhones have more
| efficient processors that generate less heat, and also need
| less RAM to perform equivalently.
|
| Whereas, fitting a top-line Snapdragon into a small phone is a
| challenge. There's a reason why top-tier phones have copper
| heatpipes, vapor chambers, and so on. All things no iPhone has
| or needs.
|
| You could still do a small Android phone, but you might have to
| abandon the idea of including a Snapdragon 8.
| hindsightbias wrote:
| It's hard to tell from the colors, but if you take the 8, the
| two SE models, the 12 & 13 minis that's closer to 15%. Those
| models are are about the same size.
| dkackman11 wrote:
| I am saddened to hear that there will be no iPhone 14 mini. I
| have the 12 mini and like the author do not want a huge phone.
| prof_hibschman wrote:
| Apple never releases a "pro" mini -- with the same
| camera/processor as the larger variants. Thinking back, the
| iPhone 5s was near the perfect size for my pockets.
|
| These days I find myself leaving my phone more and more, only
| taking it when I probably need a camera.
| erohead wrote:
| I touch on this on the site. 5% of iPhones sold are minis.
| That's 10m sold per year! That is more than enough demand to
| cover the NREs and costs of making a phone.
|
| * https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/21/cirp-iphone-13-best-
| selling-l...
| DANK_YACHT wrote:
| 5% seems quite small and not worth the trouble. It might be
| worth it if a small phone generated 5% in additional sales,
| but most people buying a small iPhone would likely buy a
| normal-sized iPhone if no small version was available rather
| than making the switch to Android.
| guywhocodes wrote:
| I know more than a few people who got Iphones only because
| there were no or too hard to find Android phones in a
| smaller form factor. I wouldn't be surprised if at least
| half of that 5% would switch back in the no-mini scenario
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| The point is that 5% (or 10m phones) does not make sense
| for Apple to continue to build, but that has no relation to
| whether it's worth it to another company.
| ncallaway wrote:
| 5% of 100 phones is 5 phones.
|
| 5% of 200,000,000 is 10,000,000.
|
| 5% can be a huge number, or a tiny number, depending on
| what it's 5% _of_.
|
| I switched from Android to Apple _specifically_ for the
| iPhone mini, and if they killed it, I would switch to the
| smallest phone on the market.
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| I switched to Apple after 10 years of using Android.
| Wanted to have a good and small phone, which the 12 mini
| is.
|
| Was a hard decision, because my Android was rooted with
| LineageOS, was able to block ads and all kinds of nice
| things.
|
| But ultimately, it just pissed me off too much to carry
| around a bulky phone (Fairphone 3).
|
| Fairly happy with the 12 mini, just don't like the Apple
| ecosystem that much.
| DANK_YACHT wrote:
| My point is that 5% is probably an irrelevant number
| because it's not 5% additional sales. If the mini wasn't
| available, many people would get a normal iPhone instead
| of switch to Android. So the net sales is closer to 0.
| Apple seems to agree with this sentiment and there will
| be no mini starting with the iPhone 14:
| https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/14/exclusive-
| iphone-14-coming-in...
|
| Good luck with your switch.
| nostromo wrote:
| Phone sales aren't driven by switching, and haven't been
| for a while, they're about upgrading. Apple knows this
| better than anyone.
|
| For example: I upgrade my phone every two years or so, so
| long as I like the new phones. If I don't like the new
| phones, I wait as long as possible.
|
| People that like smaller phones won't necessarily leave
| the iPhone if they kill the Mini - they will just keep
| their current phones for as long as possible. And that
| can indeed hurt sales, even if Apple doesn't lose market
| share.
| criddell wrote:
| That's why I picked up an iPhone 13 Mini. It's a really
| great phone and when I need a new phone six years from
| now, I'm hoping there's something as good to replace it.
| brewdad wrote:
| Is there a world where the iPhone mini is necessary or
| desirable when the iPhone SE also exists? I don't see a
| need for both, especially when they run the same
| processor under the hood.
| fossuser wrote:
| The mini is a flagship phone with flagship specs and
| better design.
|
| The newest SE is substantially larger and worse.
|
| I love my mini, but it's also clear this is the last one.
| buildsjets wrote:
| The iPhone SE is a full-sized phone. It just happens to
| be obsolete in the marketplace, and the other full-sized
| phones it competes against have become even fuller sized.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Optics on the 13 mini are significantly better!
| dont__panic wrote:
| I use an iPhone SE 2016, which uses the same chassis as
| the iPhone 5/5s.
|
| I tried an iPhone 6S for a year before I got this phone.
| Couldn't stand the size. The current SE is the same size
| as the 6S. I'm basically stuck at a dead-end of phone
| size.
|
| The current SE is not compact by historical standards.
| I'm not saying all phones need to be smaller, I just want
| one decent option.
| robertoandred wrote:
| The current SE is bigger than the mini.
| ska wrote:
| Doesn't the SE have an significantly worse & smaller
| screen (not to mention camera), although it's a slightly
| larger package?
|
| SE is clearly a 'budget' (at least for apple) phone. Some
| people really want a small phone that isn't.
| fredophile wrote:
| Your argument suggests that there are actually 2 smart
| phone markets. One for iPhones, one for everything else. I
| think this is a fairly reasonable assumption for the
| majority of consumers.
|
| Let's assume very few people are switching ecosystems at
| this point based on form factor. That would mean Apple made
| a new product to cannibalize 5% of their existing market.
| No similar product exists in the android ecosystem. It
| seems reasonable that an android phone maker could get
| similar market share but have these sales come from a
| combination of their existing sales and competitors sales.
| vvillena wrote:
| If the iPhone mini is managing to capture all of the "I
| want a small flagship phone" market, it's worth it. As long
| as the Mini exists, it's impossible for other manufacturers
| to try and compete.
| auggierose wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship
|
| There is no such thing as a _small_ flagship.
| mikestew wrote:
| It would probably be useful to read the _whole_ article
| that one links to, because there 's no flagship small
| enough to fit in your pocket, unless...:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship#Flagship_as_metaph
| or
|
| Now, whether an iPhone Mini fits into that metaphor can
| be debated, but it's just a metaphor, after all. :-)
| drdaeman wrote:
| If we're talking about actual ships, USS Constitution is
| tiny compared to most US Navy ships ;)
|
| (Not sure how good this example is, but anyway - flagship
| doesn't have to be physically giant.)
| moonchrome wrote:
| >That is more than enough demand to cover the NREs and costs
| of making a phone.
|
| Then why is Apple dropping it ?
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| because covering costs is not the same as maximizing profit
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| I half suspect that Apple will be coming back with another
| small phone a few years down the line and then a cycle will
| continue where they will always have something like an SE
| or mini, but it won't ever be flagship level.
| dylan-m wrote:
| I feel like that has been the problem with the Mini. I
| love mine (which I got because I was fed up with Pixel
| and Android in general), but I know I only have it
| because I got in at the right time. My wife bought an
| iPhone at the _wrong_ time and hers is comically large.
| She would have happily bought an iPhone Mini if it had
| been available that year. By the time she needs a new
| iPhone, it will be another year where the only options
| are gigantic.
| danieldk wrote:
| Agreed. I hope the rumors are false and that they'll continue
| to make the Mini. However, 5% does not mean much if market
| research proves that those people would buy a regular iPhone
| anyway if they drop the Mini.
|
| I think there is also some competition with the iPhone SE.
| Even though the Mini is not intended to be a budget phone, it
| is 100 Euro cheaper than the non-mini. So, I can imagine a
| chunk of people would buy it for its lower price if the
| iPhone SE didn't exist. Even more if you consider that the
| Mini actually has a larger screen than the SE.
| d3nj4l wrote:
| It's as good as guaranteed that the mini won't be returning
| this year - dummy models of the upcoming line which are
| used to size cases have made their way to the usual
| leakers, and even before that the front panels of the line
| were leaked. No mini, unfortunately :/
| hbn wrote:
| I'd be fine if they made it a biennial release. I don't
| need to upgrade my phone more than that anyway.
|
| I feel like my plan right now is to hope with the iPhone
| 14 launch, the 13 mini will continue to be sold with a
| price drop, and then I'll upgrade my 12 mini to the 13
| mini and get the battery improvement. I love the size of
| this phone and hope I'm never forced back to the gigantic
| "normal-sized" phones that we've gotten stuck with the
| past decade.
| rekoil wrote:
| That said, Apple does tend to keep their designs for a
| fair while, so it's possible there will be one next year,
| or that it will become the new SE at some point.
|
| I really really want a Pro Mini :(
| Bud wrote:
| You won't get one, unfortunately, both because there's no
| motivation for Apple to make it, and because battery life
| would be an insurmountable issue, at least with current
| tech. The battery life in the Mini is already
| significantly inferior to the other iPhones in the line;
| Apple's only going to be willing to push that so far
| before it's an obviously-compromised product and they
| would just refuse to ship it.
| cercatrova wrote:
| But you're not Apple though.
| achow wrote:
| Hold on; the math is not that easy.
|
| For one - most of the iPhone Mini sale is because of 'Halo
| effect', die hard fans who anyway would have bought an
| iPhone, bought the mini version. An Android phone maker will
| not have that brand pull or halo effect to establish a new
| category, so it would be no where near that 10M number.
|
| Second, iPhone or Mac devices are known for hardware and
| software integration. That translates among other things to
| good battery life (similar to RAM. Apple never talks about
| RAM).
|
| iPhone Mini has been weak in battery department [1], one of
| the factor in its low sale as compared to bigger device. A
| Mini Android device will have mini batteries, that means it
| will have no chance in h* to last through the day - the
| minimum requirement in this day and age.
|
| [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/oct/20/apple-
| iph....
| dti wrote:
| > it will have no chance in h* to last through the day
|
| My previous Xperia Compact, which is of about the same
| dimensions as mini, survived for a couple of days easily
| when new.
|
| > iPhone Mini has been weak in battery department [1]
|
| The article says "solid battery life", which matches my
| experience with 13 mini.
| minusf wrote:
| > iPhone Mini has been weak in battery department
|
| might have been true for mini 12, but mini 13 has amazing
| battery life, certainly nothing like 2020 SE which is truly
| abysmal.
| dont__panic wrote:
| > most of the iPhone Mini sale is because of 'Halo effect',
| die hard fans who anyway would have bought an iPhone,
| bought the mini version.
|
| Citation needed? A lot of people love to jump to the
| conclusion that nobody wants small phones. My personal
| experience does not align with that conclusion. I'm happy
| to accept this conclusion if you have some kind of evidence
| for it, but the linked article just discusses battery life,
| which was greatly improved in the iPhone 13 Mini anyway.
| elorant wrote:
| If you're a diehard fan why would you buy a subpar phone,
| and not the latest flagship? Smaller phones imply less
| usage because some things aren't as pleasant as on a bigger
| screen.
| buildsjets wrote:
| I guess I am a diehard fan of only small iPhones, as
| since 2007 my lineup has been: iPhone 3, iPhone 3Gs,
| iPhone 4, iPhone 5, iPhone SE, and currently 12 Mini.
|
| As far as I am concerned, the mini IS the flagship. I
| would never even consider buying one of the larger
| models, as I consider them to be subpar, unpleasant
| devices to carry and to use. I'd choose to carry no phone
| over having to carry a full-sized phone, they have become
| too large to be considered conveniently portable.
|
| For me, the perfect smart phone would be the same size
| and shape as a credit card, edge-to-edge screen on all
| sides, and approximately 3mm thick. And it would run iOS
| of course.
| knubie wrote:
| The mini line up is not "subpar." There is utility in a
| smaller form factor that is equal to or greater than the
| the value of the better specs in a large form factor. If
| that weren't true then everyone would be walking around
| with an iPad instead of an iPhone.
| igreulich wrote:
| I buy the best camera an iPhone will give me. If that same
| camera in the Pro Max was in the Mini I would have bough that.
|
| The iPhone 5 was the perfect size, and I miss that form factor.
| But The camera is what sells me the device.
| izacus wrote:
| These "slow iPhone 13 mini" sales are more than all Google
| Pixel phones sold in a year. Think about that.
|
| I don't understand when did the ability to choose a product
| fitting your preferences become a bad thing on HackerNews and
| modern American perception. Why is being able to buy niche
| products somehow not a worthy thing to be desired?
| hocuspocus wrote:
| > These "slow iPhone 13 mini" sales are more than all Google
| Pixel phones sold in a year. Think about that.
|
| That really doesn't say much. Google has never figured how to
| sell hardware, nor shown the will to learn. If Google was
| trying to sabotage the sales of the Pixel line, it could
| probably not do a better job.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _I don 't understand when did the ability to choose a product
| fitting your preferences become a bad thing on HackerNews_
|
| Because so many on HN have been indoctrinated into the "scale
| at all costs" mentality.
|
| It demonstrates the difference between HN and the real world.
|
| On HN, if you can't serve a billion people, your product is
| niche. In the real world, billions of people earn a very nice
| living making niche products.
|
| It's why so many people on HN don't understand Panic, or its
| PlayDate. They don't understand artisan anything. They've
| forgotten the whole hipster movement, which still exists in
| pockets of the world. They can't grok that there are
| companies that have been in business for hundreds of years
| making products one at a time -- by hand.
|
| "X doesn't scale" is HN for "I know nothing about how the
| world works."
| Bud wrote:
| Saying that HN readers (who are quite diverse, btw) "know
| nothing about how the world works" or "don't understand"
| things in this context is just lazy thinking.
|
| We understand just fine. It's not difficult to comprehend
| the appeal of customized, handmade work. The appeal is
| clear.
|
| It's just that it's completely irrelevant in the context of
| this thread. Because you can't design and make smartphones
| by hand, one at a time. So what are you even talking about?
| scarface74 wrote:
| And it took Panic a decade to release the Playdate and it
| is still back ordered for over a year. Hardware has to
| "scale" to get manufacturing capacity and scale economies.
| disharko wrote:
| Also consider he's specifically appealing to makers of
| premium phones - you can bet Google and Samsung care a lot
| about scale. And to the parent's point about the iPhone 13
| mini's sales still being more than all Pixels: ok, so then
| consider the already much smaller Pixel market share and
| how many people are left at the % of iPhone sales that the
| mini made up.
|
| I'd love for this to happen, signed the petition, and will
| hope for the best, but I think even if there would be a
| decent market for this the big players don't care to make
| that bet.
| bee_rider wrote:
| If hipster culture was so good, it would have expanded
| across the world and taken over everything.
| NoSorryCannot wrote:
| Are you saying hipsterism can't be very good because it
| didn't scale?
| wiseowise wrote:
| That's not how it works. X is amazing, but has a steep
| price so only "hipsters" can buy it which prevents it
| from taking over the world.
| [deleted]
| pcmoney wrote:
| If hipster culture is predicated on being different/"not
| like the other girls" then by definition it is
| unscalable.
|
| The whole point of a lot of things is that they are
| unscalable and if they somehow do scale they are not
| longer what they were.
| [deleted]
| tablespoon wrote:
| >> I don't understand when did the ability to choose a
| product fitting your preferences become a bad thing on
| HackerNews
|
| > Because so many on HN have been indoctrinated into the
| "scale at all costs" mentality.
|
| HN also has many fanboys that slavishly celebrate the
| decisions of certain prestigious companies as the best
| possible ones, because that prestigious company made it.
| Other decisions can be assumed to be inferior because, if
| they had merit, the company would have picked that instead.
|
| IMHO, a lot of technology has plateaued, to the point where
| the hip new thing is objectively a regression that just
| looks different.
| cortesoft wrote:
| > In the real world, billions of people earn a very nice
| living making niche products.
|
| But rarely something as expensive to create as a smart
| phone.
| izacus wrote:
| Really? Because things like cabriolet cars, speciality
| cars, high-end audio equipment, luxury furniture and many
| others exist.
|
| If anything, mobile phone market is exceedingly horrible
| because of consolidation into a single product with not
| much choice.
| [deleted]
| cortesoft wrote:
| Maybe we could have a market for very high end phones
| that cost $3000, but I haven't seen anyone try to fill
| that niche yet. Maybe it isn't there?
|
| Even if it was there, that doesn't mean the phone would
| be small. People who want small phones aren't necessarily
| wealthy, so they would only be going after the market for
| the intersection of 'wealthy + want small phone'... which
| might be a very small market and not worth pursuing.
| Zenbit_UX wrote:
| Samsung made some folding phone which were pretty close
| to $3,000 on release IIRC. Pushing-the-envelope android
| phones can reach eye watering prices, and early adopters
| always pay up too. Personally I would rather wait for the
| 3-4th generation of anything THAT wild as the tech was
| very much not ready for launch.
|
| Grains of sand getting into the hinge and mandatory
| factory-installed screen protectors are not things I want
| to deal with on a purchase that expensive.
|
| The current folding generation launching this year (4th
| Gen) is likely to be the next big thing, rumors are huge
| price drop and likely a more polished experience as
| production is ramping up for more units.
| a4isms wrote:
| That market absolutely exists, and a few people have
| tried to serve it over the years. Here's an old example,
| a Samsung phone promoted by Jackie Chan that cost about
| $3,000 back in 2012:
|
| https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-
| sch-w2013-jackie-ch...
|
| And in 2018, One Plus had a $3,000 phone:
|
| https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/this-3000-oneplus-6-is-
| the-...
| fomine3 wrote:
| Huawei Mate X2?
| shadowtree wrote:
| The fact that none of these still exist proves that there
| is no market. It does prove that companies tried to see
| if there is one.
| a4isms wrote:
| I'd be very careful about suggesting that failure proves
| there is no market for something.
|
| Many PC companies failed before Apple succeeded. Apple
| itself failed to the point of almost being acquired by
| Sun before succeeding by buying NeXT and shipping some
| hit products in the form of colourful iMacs and iPods
| with click-wheels.
|
| The biggest problem with luxury products is that they
| have almost nothing to do with the product's tangible
| features and everything to do with whether you can
| establish a valuable brand. We live in a world where
| people spend thousands of dollars on fancy numbers that
| we have a kind of gentleman's agreement signify that they
| "own" a jpeg anyone can copy.
|
| I suggest that there is absolutely a market for
| ridiculously priced phones, but the problem is not hand-
| crafting a phone with rare materials, the problem is
| creating the collective hallucination that owning such a
| phone will make other people envy you.
|
| Apple actually sold some solid gold watches. There was a
| market for a $18,000 Apple Watch. It wasn't something
| worth sustaining in perpetuity, but there was a market.
| They also launched ridiculously priced accessories from
| Hermes, and there is still a market for them almost a
| decade later.
|
| People will pay large amounts of money for exclusive
| items, but it takes a particular set of skills to launch
| something and convince the world it's the must-have
| accessory of the moment.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I think this is not exactly what GP was talking about.
| These are normal phones with an expensive marketing
| gimmick.
|
| The "RED Hydrogen One," by that fancy camera company is
| closer I think. At least it had some story that could
| hypothetically have ended with a compelling technological
| reason for it to exist (RED is supposed to know cameras).
| Although, it didn't seem to work out either, but with a
| sample size of 1 it could be a fluke of poor execution.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/10/red-quits-the-
| smartp...
|
| I'm surprised none of the really consumer-oriented camera
| companies have broken into smartphones. Camera stuff
| seems like more of a selling point for smartphones, than
| phone stuff. But, it seems like they never really want to
| dive in fully.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Leica tried making one in Japan, but apparently camera
| cameras and smartphone cameras are somewhat different
| beasts.
|
| I enjoyed MrMobile's review: https://youtu.be/skIgG8q_lKs
| bee_rider wrote:
| Yeah, this came up when I was looking around. I'd call it
| a case of not diving in fully. Since it is really just a
| rebrand of a phone from some other company (albeit one
| for which they provided the optics).
| bsder wrote:
| The limitation to making niche phones are the stupid,
| sclerotic, _CARRIERS_ --not the manufacturers. It's the
| carrier gatekeeping that prevents niche phones from
| forming.
|
| We need a ruling like from back in the Bell System era
| where you are allowed to bring customer equipment to the
| network _without_ the network owner permission.
| scarface74 wrote:
| You don't need a network owners permission for GSM/LTE.
| The only time you needed that was for CDMA.
| izacus wrote:
| You need one for VoLTE (so any voice calls), 5G and Wifi
| calling.
|
| Without carrier phone whitelist, you won't be able to
| call on AT&T and many other networks.
| d3nj4l wrote:
| Much of that can be chalked down to the fact that Apple
| doesn't have that many models they actively sell, so the
| models that they do tend to have way more than any individual
| Android model, and that the mini is the cheapest iPhone in
| the 13 line. I know a few people who went for the mini
| because it was marginally cheaper.
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| Sorry to post off-topic but I've never heard it before.
| Does chalking down mean the same thing as chalking up?
| dareiff wrote:
| Yes, both -- writing something with chalk on slate.
| sydthrowaway wrote:
| "Oh, the Mini sells better than all of the Pixels, but only
| because of <complex set of reasons>"
| [deleted]
| w-ll wrote:
| I went with the mini because the new SE is fraking bigger
| with less screen. The mini is just about the limit of what
| i want to put in my pocket. If they get any bigger, im
| going watch with cell and leaving these phablets at home.
| Zenbit_UX wrote:
| Do y all have really small pockets or something? For
| women, I get it, your pants don't come with pockets and
| that sucks. But for guys? I've had a Samsung Note phone
| in my pocket since the Note 2, they where the model that
| invented the phablet moniker... Never had an issue. Do I
| just make better pant choices than most people?
| ac2022 wrote:
| Actually, in certain situations, yes. My running shorts
| have pockets that barely fit iPhone mini. Yes, I know
| there are other accessories that I can buy to fit giant
| phones in but I rather not.
| beambot wrote:
| NRE costs on a phone are easily measured in the $Millions.
| Your niche has to either (a) have enough volume to dilute
| those costs; or (b) be willing to pay a _lot_ more per unit
| to cover them.
|
| It's not a "bad thing" about HN or American perceptions --
| it's economic reality: it just isn't cost effective for the
| big incumbents to pursue, and it's (likely) beyond the scope
| of a grass-roots, Kickstarter-style effort.
| Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
| While I agree with the sentiment of your post, I'm not sure
| if Pixel are the best example, as they have demand that they
| don't satisfy.
|
| For example in Spain, the Pixel 6 Pro was only sold for a few
| days in February, then sold out, then returned a few days ago
| - so it only seems to start being consistently available now,
| and it's a 2021 phone. Oh, and only the 128 GB model is sold
| here. I had to ask an Australian friend to mail a 512 GB one
| to me!
|
| And at least, they _do_ sell it here. In most countries, you
| can 't even buy it.
|
| Compare to iPhone where you can get every model with every
| storage capacity consistently, in Spain, and in the
| overwhelming majority of countries in the world.
|
| I've even seriously considered switching to iPhone for this
| very reason, by the way.
| conradev wrote:
| SUVs and trucks getting bigger over the time is a direct result
| of regulation: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/how-
| cafe-killed-co...
| Archelaos wrote:
| > "oh phones are too big I just want something simple". That is
| a valid sentiment that I think is shared by basically no
| average consumer. For a lot of people, phones are their primary
| computing devices, so a big screen is nice there. Bigger phones
| allow for more battery capacity.
|
| My way of dealing with it is two phones. Besides my smartphone,
| I still use my more than ten-year-old Nokia when I do not want
| to take the big smartphone with me. Of course, it only has
| phone, SMS and a clock. But I usually do not need anything else
| when I go for a walk or meet up with friends. I just want to be
| reachable in case there is a problem.
|
| Its old battry still lasts quite a long time, and I have it
| switched off most of the time anyway. So I can go 7+ days
| without recharging.
| nsonha wrote:
| Do you still use your phone as a phone? Because I personally
| stopped using the phone features long ago, and I suspected
| many are in the same basket. So even for a minimalist/backup
| device, it would still need to be a "smart" phone, for note
| taking, calendar sync and what not.
| Archelaos wrote:
| Yes, I am indeed primarily using phone and SMS for mobile
| communication. I have never been on Facebook or WhatsApp
| and generally do not like too much distraction. If I am in
| the mood to socialise with people, I call them, email them
| or suggest a joint activity, but typically from home. And
| as I have been working from home office (or camper-van)
| even pre-COVID, I am prefering my laptop for email,
| calendar, to-dos, Web-browsing, etc. I think this reduces
| the need to carry a smart phone around quite a lot,
| compared to many others.
|
| What could change that would be the availability of a
| smartphone that turns into a PC/laptop when connected to a
| docking station. I suspect that Microsoft is pursuing such
| a plan with the integration of Android into Windows 11.
| Let's see ...
| mrweasel wrote:
| If you hadn't included the link to Macrumors, I'd have guess
| that the mini sells poorly because the iPhone SE is available
| and much cheaper. Personally I really surprised that the SE
| doesn't sell more.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Anecdotally, I wanted a Mini, but the lack of top-end cameras
| being available made me hesitant. I ended up buying a SE,
| since the neither phone was exactly what I wanted, but the SE
| was so much cheaper.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| The numbers on that site are a bit vague and I'm having a hard
| time making out the chart due to the colours, but they still
| sold millions of iPhone 13 Minis, right? Plus, you should
| probably add up the mini + SE as well for "small(-ish) phone
| demand".
|
| I think you can make a profitable niche selling smaller phones.
| Most people don't want a 12" laptop either as they consider it
| too small, but some people do and various companies still make
| a profit designing and selling them. I don't quite understand
| why it's so different for phones.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| it's a sort of selection bias, it's only because of a niche
| unmet need that people take to their blogs to complain - so the
| only people clamoring are the one not getting what they want
|
| same way the universe is perfectly made for us because if it
| wasn't we wouldn't be here, ya'know ?
|
| - Sent from my iPhone 13 mini
| Dunedan wrote:
| > Why would that form factor succeed in the Android space?
|
| Because it's not Apple selling them and Android smartphone
| manufacturers operate with much lower margins.
|
| Take Motorola for example, which isn't even one of the 10
| largest smartphone manufacturers. They released ~30 different
| smartphone models in the past year alone, so they apparently
| make money, even if they don't sell millions of units per
| model.
|
| Yet none of the models released in the past year has a height
| shorter than 159mm or a weight lighter than 155g.
|
| I believe the reason why no smartphone manufacturer offers
| small phones anymore is not because they want to, but rather
| because there is some non-obvious reason why they can't. My
| personal theory is because it's difficult to get proper display
| panels for smaller phones nowadays. The fabs producing the
| panels switched to larger sizes due to demand and efficiency,
| which resulted in no smaller panels with up-to-date specs
| (high-refresh rate, HDR, low power consumption, ...) to be
| available. I'd appreciate if somebody could proof me wrong, as
| that'd be quite a bummer otherwise.
| ece wrote:
| I think this is the main reason, and why only Apple can
| afford to make a small slab phone. They can still make some
| margin with 5% of a massive number, while others can't make
| any.
|
| Foldables seem like a better compromise here, and hopefully
| more like the zflip/razr get in this $700-800 range with
| stock android, good cameras, and decent battery life. The
| zflip 3 has been sold for $800, just give me stock android
| and I'd be a buyer. I'd be ok with a slightly slower
| processor if it means a better battery life, but within
| 10-20% of a flagship. Between a $450 6.1 inch Pixel 6a, or a
| $700-800 folding phone, it's going to be kind of tough to
| compete with a smaller slab phone if it's going to have to
| make more compromises to stay small.
|
| I'd love a Nexus 4 sized phone again, but these aren't bad
| options, if you want small, go folding, or get a 6a. I'm sure
| the mini is a good option if you're ok with iOS.
| dont__panic wrote:
| Foldables are a crappy solution. I _do not want_ a tablet.
| I have no desire to watch videos on my phone, and I don 't
| need a huge screen for any of the things I do on my phone
| regularly -- text, listen to music, occasionally browse HN
| and reddit, take photos. I understand that they fold up to
| essentially become weird-aspect ratio very thick phones...
| but that's not desirable for me either, especially at the
| foldable price point of ~$1000+.
| fomine3 wrote:
| nit: Foldables aren't for video, aspect ratio is far from
| 16:9. Effective video size is not much bigger than non
| foldable. It's great for reading web/book/pdf.
| ece wrote:
| The zflip/razr foldables have smaller screens, and the
| zflip can be had for sub-$1000.
| duxup wrote:
| Hopefully they just go to an every other year selling cycle on
| the mini or something like that.
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| I agree with you 100% I am knocking on 50 years of age, but I
| have the eyes of an 80 year old! I'd LOVE to be able to use a
| 9" tablet as my primary phone.
|
| I have a plethora of screens available to me, including a PC as
| my primary computing device; but when I'm on the go I need a
| _larger_ screen not a smaller one.
| masklinn wrote:
| There are two big issues with SFF, really:
|
| - people tend to correlate size and price, and by default the
| correlation is direct (for some things it's inverse), so at
| similar capabilities (and thus prices) consumers will tend to
| go with the larger version
|
| - for a smartphone specifically, there's a direct relationship
| between battery size and device size, and battery life is a
| _really valuable_ convenience
|
| The iPhone 13 mini has a 2400 mAh battery, the 13 has 3200. 33%
| more battery capacity is _a lot_ , and at 2400mAh I don't think
| the mini doesn't survive an entire day of relatively heavy use
| without a charge.
| kuschku wrote:
| > The iPhone 13 mini has a 2400 mAh battery, the 13 has 3200.
| 33% more battery capacity is a lot, and at 2400mAh I don't
| think the mini doesn't survive an entire day of relatively
| heavy use without a charge.
|
| So make it 3mm thicker?
| d3nj4l wrote:
| _Every_ iPhone person I know has complained about the 13
| Pro being significantly thicker and heavier than the
| previous models. Literally, things like "it feels like a
| brick in my hand." Making phones thicker/heavier is an HN
| meme that is completely out of touch with what normies
| want. Consider that for most people, the phone is their
| primary device, and one they _hold in their hand_ for ~6h a
| day.
| MobiusHorizons wrote:
| one of the reasons newer iphones "feel like a brick" is
| that they transitioned to heavier materials (stainless
| steel instead of aluminum) and because the corners are
| now squared. rounding corners often has the effect of
| making things seem thinner as well as usually making
| things more pleasant to hold. I agree with you that these
| users probably don't want a thicker iphone, but I would
| bet if you focused on perceived bulkiness in the
| industrial design, you could sneek in a slightly larger
| battery and still give the impression of a less bulky
| device.
| zuhsetaqi wrote:
| > one of the reasons newer iphones "feel like a brick" is
| that they transitioned to heavier materials (stainless
| steel instead of aluminum)
|
| What do you mean by newer iPhones? They use stainless
| steel since 2017 in the models X, XS (Max), 11 Pro (Max),
| 12 Pro (Max) and 13 Pro (Max), so it's nothing new.
| tomtheelder wrote:
| Your anecdote vs my anecdote here, but I have never, not
| even one time, heard someone complain about the thickness
| or weight of an iPhone. I highly doubt the average user
| would even notice let alone care if you made the device a
| bit thicker.
| d3nj4l wrote:
| Which iPhone did they have?
| giaour wrote:
| This would probably be a dealbreaker for a lot of people.
| Unihertz makes small android phones that are on the thicker
| side, and I've been hesitant to buy one because of their
| girth (despite there not being any alternative small
| android phones on the market).
| masklinn wrote:
| There's "thicker" and there's "thick".
|
| The iphone 13 is 7.65mm. The Unihertz Jelly is 16.5.
|
| Apple hasn't made a phone thicker than 10mm since the
| 3GS, and that was 12.3 (up from the original 2G's 11.6
| because of the rounded plastic back vs flat aluminum).
| Dunedan wrote:
| > for a smartphone specifically, there's a direct
| relationship between battery size and device size, and
| battery life is a really valuable convenience
|
| As the largest consumer of energy is the display of a
| smartphone, you don't need the same battery size to get the
| same runtime in a smaller phone. Also by increasing the depth
| of the smartphone by just 1-2 millimeters you can offset the
| smaller area available for the battery.
| masklinn wrote:
| > As the largest consumer of energy is the display of a
| smartphone, you don't need the same battery size to get the
| same runtime in a smaller phone.
|
| The battery capacity grows much faster than the display
| energy consumption, and it's not even a fight: at otherwise
| equivalent hardware, the larger phone has always had better
| battery life than the smaller one in every iPhone
| generation.
|
| The minis both suffered significant criticism due to
| battery life issues, compared to their larger sibling.
|
| > Also by increasing the depth of the smartphone by just
| 1-2 millimeters you can offset the smaller area available
| for the battery.
|
| You can do the same on both smaller and larger form factors
| so that's not an advantage of the SFF phones.
|
| And much to my dismay Apple remains very much not a fan of
| that: after having increased the phone depth to long-
| forgotten heights of 8.3mm (a chonk not seen since the 4S's
| 9.3), it's been reduced back down to 7.65 in the 13 (up a
| hair from the 12's 7.4). I fear an eventual return to the
| dark days of the 6S/7 and their 7.1mm you could shave with
| (but couldn't pick your phone off of the table for lack of
| ability to grip the thing without using your fingernails to
| pry it off).
| ece wrote:
| > The battery capacity grows much faster than the display
| energy consumption, and it's not even a fight: at
| otherwise equivalent hardware, the larger phone has
| always had better battery life than the smaller one in
| every iPhone generation.
|
| As an example, the Z5 Compact had a 2700mah battery in
| basically something ~1mm thicker than a 13 mini, which
| has a ~2400mah battery. The Z5 Compact is also a 7 year
| old phone, which didn't have wireless charging.
| NoPicklez wrote:
| I like to use the story of one of my parents. Big tall guy,
| never used technology, big fingers and always complained
| buttons were too small etc etc.
|
| Now the guy loves his big iPad and his iPhone that he wouldn't
| go any size smaller because he'd struggle to see what's on the
| screen. The only challenge he has now is he likes the bigger
| phone, but struggles to keep it in his pockets when working,
| when you add in a protective cover.
|
| People don't often know what they want, they're just driven by
| what they've had and whether they think it has worked for them,
| which most people can justify their own decision.
|
| I do think however, that there will become a point where phones
| simply are too big. I'm just not sure how far off we are from
| that.
| andjd wrote:
| > So, by all accounts, the iPhone mini has been an extremely
| slow seller.
|
| This narrative is cited a lot, and fueled rumors that Apple
| would kill the mini for iPhone 13. They didn't. So clearly it's
| profitable enough for them even though it's a comparatively
| low-volume product.
|
| I think the issue with small form factor on Android is whether
| too many apps will have broken UI on such a small screen.
| Software support has been the issue with other innovative
| android phones, such as the LG Wing and even the original
| Samsung Fold.
| newaccount74 wrote:
| > fueled rumors that Apple would kill the mini for iPhone 13.
| They didn't.
|
| Apple plans pretty far ahead and moves slowly. When a phone
| goes on sale (like the iPhone 12 mini) the successor is
| already pretty far along in the pipeline, and I think it's
| unlikely they would cancel the successor based on a few weeks
| of sales data. They would at least wait until after
| christmas, at which point the 13 mini was probably already
| almost ready, at which point it probably doesn't make sense
| to cancel it anymore.
|
| So if Apple nixes a product because it lacks demand, I would
| expect that to be after two years of sales. The decision
| might have been made already after the first year of iPhone
| 12 mini, but the decision would not affect the iPhone 13
| lineup, only the iPhone 14 lineup.
|
| You could see this slow product cycle when Apple failed to
| jump on the big phone trend. When the iPhone 5 came out, they
| underestimated the market for huge phones, and it took them
| two years to course correct and jump on the phablet bandwagon
| with the 6/6+. (And they had a phantastic quarter when they
| did since everyone has been waiting for a big iPhone for two
| years)
| michaelt wrote:
| _> So, by all accounts, the iPhone mini has been an extremely
| slow seller._
|
| Well, it's up against the iPhone SE, which has the same size,
| same weight and the same processor. [1]
|
| [1]
| https://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone13m...
| porcc wrote:
| Not the same size, the comparisons are misleading as both
| those phones look small compared to the 13 max. The SE has a
| form factor that matches many Android phones, small-phoners
| (like me) want to go smaller than that if possible.
|
| https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-
| iPhone-12-mini,...
|
| I had the previous SE from years back and it's still my
| preferred size, the current mini is significantly bigger than
| it.
|
| As an aside, I had to switch to the 12 mini as the old SE
| started becoming unusable due to its age. I did switch to a
| Pixel 4a temporarily but that was too big for what I wanted
| and traded it in as soon as I could.
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| I have the 13 Mini. Multiple people have asked me what it was
| and then commented that they wish they knew about it when they
| got their current phone.
|
| I think sales are probably limited significantly by the
| marketing plan of both Apple and the carriers that sell phones
| - I'm sure that the larger phones are more profitable.
| krony wrote:
| Agreed. I love my 12 Mini, and my SE's before that. I'm also
| anti-case so the phone looks extra small compared to most.
| Fun to have someone take our photo with the phone, cause they
| always ask how ancient it is and are shocked to hear it is
| newer than the phone they have! Non-existent marketing
| doesn't help
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| When I bought the 13 Mini, it wasn't even an option on their
| /iphone landing page. I only saw it when I clicked into the
| store.
|
| Edit: Yup, it's nowhere to be seen on apple.com homepage.
| They don't push it at all.
| hn_throwaway_69 wrote:
| >people just like big stuff
|
| I'm inclined to think that applies more to Americans than
| people generally. Europeans and Australians can be quite
| content with smaller vehicles, smaller properties, and quite
| frankly smaller lifestyles.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| > Europeans and Australians
|
| Australians will jump at the largest, cheapest Soniq TV JB
| Hi-Fi sells. Likewise (with 'local' brands) in the UK.
| serial_dev wrote:
| I don't think it's as much a culture difference as you think,
| more like the environment where we use the cars.
|
| I'm from Europe, living in bigger European city, and I have a
| small car (3-door RAV4). I bought it so I can drive and park
| easily in the city and go up hills and mountains when I leave
| the city once a month.
|
| And if I'm honest, that is the best car I could afford. I see
| lots of rich people with bigger and bigger SUVs cruising in
| the city in Germany: G wagons, BMWs, Audis, Volkswagen
| Touaregs, Porsche Cayennes everywhere.
|
| I went on a road trip in the US, rented an SUV that would be
| huge and impractical here, but there, it actually felt small.
| The roads were wide, traffic wasn't bad, parking was easy. I
| loved it.
|
| If I lived in the countryside in Europe where I need to
| transport stuff for my ranch/farm (and if I could afford it),
| I'd definitely consider buying a pickup truck.
|
| The same goes for properties. The reason why I lived in a
| 30sqm apartment with my wife was that is all I could afford
| while living in the city, close to good job opportunities. I
| would have been obviously happier if I could have a 300sqm
| house.
| fomine3 wrote:
| > small car
|
| > RAV4
|
| Viewpoint from Japan: is it small?. I feel same thing for
| BMW Mini because it's bigger width than average on the
| road.
| avar wrote:
| Yes, or mid-size. Japan is to Europe what Europe is to
| America in terms of car sizes.
|
| E.g. vans within the Kei (keijidosha) classification
| pretty much don't exist in Europe, but are common in
| Japan.
| serial_dev wrote:
| It's a three door version, 3860 mm long. It's about as
| much as the shortest Mini model. It's amongst the
| shortest cars around here, Renault Twingo, and "smart"
| cars are shorter, but nothing else comes to my mind that
| would be significantly shorter than the RAV4.
| fomine3 wrote:
| Ah three door version is very short than I expected.
| tasuki wrote:
| > I would have been obviously happier if I could have a
| 300sqm house.
|
| This is not necessarily true, though something people often
| believe.
| serial_dev wrote:
| Okay, let's remove the "obviously" from my quote.
| Everybody is different.
|
| In my case, I don't see why I would be sad over having a
| bit more place. It would be nice to have a place for an
| office, a small home gym, bigger kitchen, dining room,
| terrace with a BBQ, etc.
|
| I'm not saying it would solve every problem in my life,
| but it would make a couple of things less inconvenient.
| dron57 wrote:
| I really doubt anyone needs 300 sqm (~3000 sqft). I've
| never seen places like that where the majority of the
| space wasn't simply collecting dust.
| btbuildem wrote:
| Didn't the oversized phone craze originate in Asia?
| ryukafalz wrote:
| American here with a Smart Fortwo, but I may be an outlier.
| Dead simple to park in the city though, and I hear lots of
| people complaining about parking, so... I don't know why
| everyone buys those enormous cars here. :)
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| But admittedly here in Germany SUVs are also on the rise,
| even though we have that "environmentally conscious"
| reputation.
| hn_throwaway_69 wrote:
| Admittedly also on the rise in Australia, but they're
| nowhere near the size of pickup trucks that occupy American
| highways.
| Etheryte wrote:
| I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk of Germans as
| environmentally conscious. Car culture is usually one of
| the first things that comes up when someone talks about
| Germany.
| danieldk wrote:
| I have lived in Germany for five years and this is
| absolutely true. Even many students have cars, which was
| completely surreal/absurd to me, since I didn't have any
| fellow students in The Netherlands with a car (only
| bikes). I'd cycle to work every day (22 km for the round
| trip), I'd regularly get comments from Germans that I was
| crazy to cycle that distance through all weather.
|
| Watching German politics more closely during those years,
| I have seen that choices between: is better for car
| owners, is better for something else, gets decided in
| favor of _is better for car owners_ 90% of the times.
| Heck, even some members of the Green Party are very cozy
| with the car industry (e.g. Kretschmann).
| tasuki wrote:
| > I'd cycle to work every day (22 km for the round trip),
| I'd regularly get comments from Germans that I was crazy
| to cycle that distance through all weather.
|
| The Germans probably don't know that with 2cm of snow,
| all the other means of transport, including the Amsterdam
| metro, stop working. So bicycle it is. I loved my 25km
| (round trip) bike commute when I lived there, it was such
| a great way to clear my head before/after work.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| I wish we still got any snow to speak of...
| Tade0 wrote:
| > I'd regularly get comments from Germans that I was
| crazy to cycle that distance through all weather.
|
| It is a bit unusual outside of the Netherlands and
| Denmark.
|
| I tried to cycle to work 8km or so and it was fine until
| I had to cross a slope. And since this slope was etched
| by the nearby river, it went through the whole city, so
| there wasn't any way around it.
|
| Took all the fun out of it honestly, especially during
| heatwaves.
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| Sure car culture is big, but does that mean people like
| big cars?
|
| Also curious where you're from that you never heard of
| this.
| Etheryte wrote:
| I think your comment is a good example of the disconnect
| in how you and I seem to mean different things when we
| say environmentally conscious. In my opinion, driving a
| car every day isn't environmentally conscious, regardless
| the size of the car. These days, the difference between
| two modern cars is not that big, they're both still big
| polluters. You don't need to drive a 5-person car to work
| alone every day, nor to the store, nor to the gym, but it
| is what very many people in Germany do. Whether that car
| is big or small does not make that big of a difference
| when you compare it to the alternative of taking the
| public transport, cycling or walking. I understand the
| alternatives are not as comfortable, but that is a matter
| of choice -- it is a choice to build cities in a way that
| favors cars over pedestrians and cyclists.
|
| A simple example of what I mean is traffic lights. I've
| lived in many European countries, including Germany, and
| travelled a very fair bit in the rest. In Germany,
| traffic lights are green for cars for a long time and
| green for pedestrians a very short time (feel free to
| measure this at any traffic light in your city). In
| countries where infrastructure is planned around humans,
| it's the other way around.
|
| Cycling is another example of this. Germany doesn't have
| "bad weather for cycling". People cycle to work in winter
| in Helsinki and don't bat an eye. The difference is
| infrastructure. Helsinki has not only built the roads,
| lights and the rest around it, but they also ensure it's
| in good condition. When it snows, bike paths often get
| cleaned before car roads. It's a matter of choice. I
| bring up Helsinki because it's easier to compare.
| Netherlands and the like are so far ahead everyone else
| in humane cities that the comparisons are hard to make.
| Helsinki is a good example because their developments are
| recent and go to show that you can choose to live a
| different way.
| danieldk wrote:
| I have lived in Southern Germany for ~5 years and lived
| in The Netherlands before and after. Germans most
| definitely (at least in the south) have bigger cars on
| average.
| 0des wrote:
| Yall are the home of VW right?
| hef19898 wrote:
| And those SUVs still are relatively small compared to US-
| style pick-ups.
| [deleted]
| 0des wrote:
| Weird, all the europeans who visit me in the US talk so much
| about how great it is to have this much space.
| soco wrote:
| While the americans visiting me in Europe complain about
| the cramped streets. One of these is polite.
| bee_rider wrote:
| That's weird, I'd expect them to celebrate the
| walkability (never been there but I've heard it is a
| major advantage to your towns and cities).
| soco wrote:
| As a sibling comment noted, you have to live there - in
| this case to get to know walkability, especially if it
| was a foreign concept to you...
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| It's probably easier to notice the upsides of "loads of
| space" without living there, while the downsides are more
| obvious when you live there.
| gpvos wrote:
| It's nice to have that space for your house, but on the
| other hand your kids can't go to school by themselves, and
| neither can you jump on your bike for some shopping and be
| back in ten minutes.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Bigger houses and more (sometimes mandatory) parking also
| means everything is further apart and making cars more
| needed even when going between stores.
| mrweasel wrote:
| Right, it's not that we don't want bigger houses,
| apartments or cars, we just can't justify it in terms of
| cost.
|
| I'd love to get my wife a bigger car, so she wouldn't be
| scared of driving in the snow, but just buying it would be
| three times the price (or more) compared to the small car
| she's currently driving.
| 0des wrote:
| Plenty of room down south, we'd be happy to have you
| both.
| Bud wrote:
| Plenty of room, but no women's rights to speak of and a
| lot of other unlivable factors involved.
| 0des wrote:
| You sound prejudiced
| jason0597 wrote:
| Where's the visa? :)
| d3nj4l wrote:
| China _loves_ the Pro Max - it outsold the Pro there [1], and
| my understanding (based largely on hearsay, so take it with a
| grain of salt) is that they generally love large phones over
| there.
|
| 1: https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/technology/2022/0
| 1/...
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Similarly, the F150 is the best selling vehicle in the US. #2
| is the Silverado, and #3 is the Dodge Ram.
|
| Clearly, this whole 'sedan' concept is a failed form factor,
| every manufacturer should only make pickup trucks. Why shoot
| for less than the #1 market spot?
| dont__panic wrote:
| Funnily, cars suffer from this same exact issue, but worse!
| Just like expanding phone screen size leads to suboptimal
| software on small screen sizes that devs don't target any
| more... expanding car size leads to safety compromises for
| sedans. If my 2000s Civic gets T-boned by a 2022 F150, I'll
| probably die, simply because the 2022 F150 will crush my car
| like a tank rolling over a tin can. When I try to drive
| around in my sedan at night, I'm constantly blinded because
| truck manufacturers don't account for low seat heights any
| more with beam cutoffs.
|
| Who would buy a sedan any more when you're screwed over this
| way? With phones and vehicles, we're stuck in this prisoner's
| dilemma situation where larger sizes lead to less
| desirability of small sizes, and the cycle repeats over and
| over again.
|
| Same thing happens with public transit/car usage -- as more
| people use cars, public transit thins out, deals with more
| traffic on the roads, and becomes scarier because there are
| fewer "normal" people on public transit to make you feel safe
| from crime.
|
| Curious if there's an research on how to escape from this
| kind of death spiral -- my suspicion is that the only real
| way out is regulation, because otherwise there's no way to
| overcome the self-reinforcing impact of these decisions.
| InvaderFizz wrote:
| Ford has phased out sedans[0] for the US market and are
| instead chasing higher margin trucks and SUVs. The exception
| is the Mustang.
|
| 0: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ford-exec-says-this-is-why-
| it-s...
| E4YomzYIN5YEBKe wrote:
| Side note, It is just RAM now and not Dodge Ram. RAM is a
| brand under Stellantis just like Dodge, Citroen, or JEEP.
| gs17 wrote:
| Isn't that sort of what Ford decided (except they also still
| make SUVs)? AFAIK, they stopped making sedans for most
| markets.
| [deleted]
| usrn wrote:
| This is the problem with mobile stuff. It's always "one size
| fits all" and "fuck you if it doesn't work for you, too bad."
| I'm so tired of it I've just given up on normal smartphones.
| There's really nothing they add to your life when you look
| closely. I have a flip phone running "kai OS" now (which is
| actually pretty neat but I don't bother with a data plan) and a
| Linux PDA. I don't miss owning a smartphone at all, they're
| terrible.
| bloqs wrote:
| Every female member of my family has complained about devices
| being too big. Its clearly based on anecdotal evidence.
|
| People with smaller hands want to be able to operate the phone
| fully with one hand.
| d00k wrote:
| Don't see the same with my family, girlfriend has a 13 Pro
| Max, mum and sister have the 11 Pro Max.
| Gigachad wrote:
| From what I have seen. The average person would rather two
| hand their phone than have a smaller one.
| drewzero1 wrote:
| Not only smaller hands, but smaller pockets.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| Most women I know never carried their phones in pockets,
| but in their handbags. Even in the tiny phones era.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _Every female member of my family has complained about
| devices being too big._
|
| My wife's solution to iPhones being too big was to upgrade
| all of her handbags and to buy flouncy dresses with pockets.
|
| Wanna trade families? Please?
| IAmEveryone wrote:
| What kind of illoyal loser would denounce their wife in
| public, offer to "trade" her like some property, all over
| some completely meaningless bullshit cliche complaint about
| their choices of style?
| reaperducer wrote:
| _What kind of illoyal loser would denounce their wife in
| public, offer to "trade" her like some property, all over
| some completely meaningless bullshit cliche complaint
| about their choices of style?_
|
| Wow, angry much? I suggest contacting your local mental
| health crisis hotline before you turn your internet rage
| into something people actually care about. In the United
| States, just dial 988.
|
| Failing that, try getting a sense of humor. They're nice.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Youngman
| [deleted]
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| Give me a break. You know damn well that the GP didn't
| really want to trade his wife and it was a joke, yet you
| felt compelled to gallop in here on your steed and
| bravely proclaim - on a tech message board, in 2022 -
| that you are against treating human beings as property.
|
| If you thought the joke was distasteful, say it was
| distasteful. But pretending it was serious and loudly
| letting us all know you are against trading human beings
| is some of the lamest virtual signalling I've ever seen.
| jwagenet wrote:
| My girlfriend liked the mini, but didn't get it partially
| because it doesn't feature the 3 cameras. As long as the mini
| is positioned as a down brand phone, even for technical
| reasons, some of the interested market is excluded
| skavi wrote:
| One thing I don't think people appreciate is just how
| impressively compact the Minis are. Every bit of space is
| used up. I doubt any Android OEM (with the exception of
| maybe Samsung) could get make a comparable device.
|
| Unless they used something akin to a laptop webcam, there
| simply isn't enough space for a third camera.
| rtkwe wrote:
| There's just not enough space for all the random features
| people want in a small form factor phone and keep it thin-
| ish. The Pro Max camera group alone is 1/5-1/4 of the back
| real estate on the 12 mini.
| derbOac wrote:
| I don't know. I'm one of these people who wants a smaller
| phone. Not tiny but definitely wanted a smaller one. I know a
| couple of people who feel the same, bought an iPhone mini, and
| when I was looking for my last phone came across reviews
| specifically targeting this issue.
|
| I don't use iPhones so don't really know very much, but my
| instinct is that it falls into this bundling fallacy about
| product characteristics (there might be another term for it; I
| don't know). It goes something like this:
|
| Companies X, Y, and Z all market products with unusual
| characteristic A. But there's all sorts of other things about
| it that make it undesirable or less desirable, so the consumer
| is faced with trade-offs. _In the context of choosing between
| desirable characteristic A, but also undesirable
| characteristics B and C_ , they choose another product because
| the cost of B and C is greater than the benefit of A.
|
| But then the companies all conclude "no one wants A" because
| they half-assed the product, not realizing that it wasn't A
| that was the problem, it was the B and C they released it with.
|
| I see this all the time. With clothing for example, they'll
| make a garment out of really nice material A, but then release
| it with this weird design that doesn't really appeal to anyone
| except a stereotype. With tech I've noticed that they don't
| really make it available at all sometimes. So there might be
| product X, but you can't really find it anywhere. With a phone,
| hypothetically, it might be "my phone broke this morning and I
| need one ASAP and all the brick and mortar shops around me only
| carry these specific things and not the iPhone mini."
|
| Anyway, I don't know the iPhone mini from anything, but the
| bundling fallacy is so prevalent in these situations I'm
| skeptical. I know I faced this a bit when buying my last
| Android phone: the next smaller down, which I preferred based
| on size, and which wasn't even "small", wasn't that much
| smaller but also had other downsides.
|
| Sometimes I almost feel like companies sometimes intentionally
| sabotage experimental products just not to deal with the
| headache of supporting more options in their supply chain.
|
| Also, sometimes there are things that don't sell to a huge
| market, but do sell, and have a very devoted following. Smaller
| phones might be like that. In my experience sometimes these
| "devoted markets" sometimes expand into larger ones later (for
| example, everyone realizes 3 years from now they can't fit
| their phones in their pockets anymore and that it doesn't
| matter if they have a nice big phone to move their fingers
| around on if they have no place to put it).
| qwertfisch wrote:
| > Sometimes I almost feel like companies sometimes
| intentionally sabotage experimental products just not to deal
| with the headache of supporting more options in their supply
| chain.
|
| Except companies like Samsung throw out dozens of new models
| per year, which all differentiate only marginally, and none
| of them gets a SFF while maintaining higher quality of
| features (i.e. no cheap phone with 720 display and such).
|
| Sometimes they get it right, like with the Samsung A40 from
| 2019, only to not pursue the sales for a true successor.
| Heck, me and a lot of my friends and relatives bought an A40
| because of its size and fantastic display.
| aylmao wrote:
| Worth point out; per the chart on the linked article it seems
| like the iPhone 12 Mini sold about as well as the iPhone 13
| Mini, if I'm reading the colors correctly.
| hedora wrote:
| From looking at other sites, the SE greatly outsells the mini
| (22M in 2020, projected 30M in 2022). It is typically Apple's
| #2 seller. If you add that in with the mini numbers, then it
| tells a different story.
|
| Also, during the pandemic, faceid didn't work in public. People
| looking for a small phone had to choose between a more
| expensive model with more cameras and cheaper phone with
| working biometric authentication.
|
| That skews all sorts of market share stats. Anyway, annual
| sales by model (the SEs are usually released at a different
| time of year) would make for a more meaningful comparison than
| calendar Q1 sales starting after Christmas and ending a few
| weeks after the SE launch.
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| I have given up: the iphone mini (which I own) is gargantuan.
|
| There are a few glimmers of hope around the edges. Palm was
| interesting but too small (the primary problem was the battery,
| not the screen size). Unihertz is doing some interesting stuff in
| the small phone arena, but their stuff is either too small and
| thick (the jelly) or too big (titan). Their styling is also a bit
| funky in a 90's tech vibe sort of way that I'm not a huge fan of.
|
| What I want is an iphone 4-sized phone that I can keep in my
| pocket w/o noticing and that provides the basics of smart phones.
| Even better if it could be an e-ink screen so I don't have to
| charge it very often.
|
| I have accepted that I am a market of one.
| code_duck wrote:
| I miss the iPhone 5. That was a great size and shape. Same
| width as the 4, just a bit longer of course.
| Gigachad wrote:
| I pulled a 5 out of my draw and was pleasantly surprised at
| the size and feel, but then I actually went to use it and it
| was quite bad. I wasn't able to comfortably two hand the
| phone to type which meant my typing speed was massively
| reduced.
|
| Personally I mostly use my phone two handed so even the pro
| max is usable even though I can't reach all areas with one
| hand.
| nicwolff wrote:
| The "1st gen" SE is the same size as the 5, still available
| from e.g. Amazon for $100-$200, and runs the current iOS very
| well if a little slowly.
| redisman wrote:
| I ran those for many years but unfortunately the batteries
| are old and seem to only last a year these days
| hansel_der wrote:
| running with 1st gen se since fall 2018: battery is still
| at 95%
|
| replacement kit from ifixit is available thou
| hedora wrote:
| Why not go to an Apple Store, and buy a new battery?
| porcc wrote:
| I'm with you! The litephone 2 is the closest we've gotten but
| at our market-size the software stability will likely be
| lacking.
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| a market of two, then
|
| i have a litephone for my kids and it's too minimalistic, I'd
| still like maps, etc
|
| if we could combine the styling of the palm, but a bit bigger
| and with much better battery w/ and e-ink display and decent
| battery life, I'd be in heaven
| danstiner wrote:
| market of three
|
| The litephone is too basic and the HiSense A5 etc do not
| work on US networks.
|
| I looked at building a 5.2" e-ink phone for the US market
| and did some fun mock-ups, but it would be a huge
| undertaking with my limited hardware background. Smaller
| phones just have fundamental limits due to battery size
| that are difficult to work around, and Android has
| basically no e-ink support as it's such a niche type of
| display for a phone.
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| surely at some point a viable e-ink phone will be
| released in the US
|
| surely :|
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| I like the idea of the litephone except it's the opposite of
| what I use a phone for. I don't care much about phone calls,
| they're mostly useless except that my doorbell is hooked up
| to my phone (which is of course set to silent lol) and
| sometimes I need to talk to banks or recruiters. I want maps,
| chat apps, email, lyft, a browser, etc. but also to disable
| 99% of notifications 99% of the time.
|
| Right now I still use my Palm Phone (PVG100) and I'm bummed
| that it looks like they won't release another one. Gonna use
| it until it's impossible for it to function in the modern
| world.
| dmitrygr wrote:
| > Cameras must be as good as Pixel 5
|
| I know that you think you are setting an attainable bar, But that
| is not the case. Most phones you can buy today would not deliver
| this. A lot of it has to do with computational photography (code
| Google will not license to you) and per-device tuning done at the
| factory (details of which Google will not give you)
| abhaynayar wrote:
| I want a notch-less phone. Where did they all go after 2019?
| mg wrote:
| If you like the punch-hole design, then there are quite a few
| options.
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| Please make an android phone the size of the old iPhone SE. I
| want out of the Apple ecosystem but there are no phones this size
| on android I can find.
| santioriginal wrote:
| I'd like a small phone, big battery (I don't mind clunky/brick)
| or changeable * excellent dac * headphone jack * FM dab+ * ir *
| for camera: join up with Ricoh / Pentax *
| didip wrote:
| So... there are tons of small Chinese Android phones. Why not get
| one of them, wipe it clean, and install whatever you want?
| rplnt wrote:
| It's an option only if you don't want a good camera, don't need
| it to be fast, don't care that screen scratches, etc..
| qwertfisch wrote:
| Are there really? It's not just the size, but also the weight:
| cheaper components have larger weight. At least for me that is
| a dealbreaker.
|
| Then you want the display to be small but of high resolution
| (and quality!), so 1080 pixels in width is necessary to have at
| least 320 to 350 dpi. My Samsung A40, which I bought for 220EUR
| in 2019. has 440dpi (with 1080 pixels width), and this is
| marvellous because I cannot see single pixels anymore.
|
| Third reason is the processor. There are still enough cheap
| ones built-in, that cause stutter and pauses.
|
| I don't want just a small phone, I want a nice and reasonably-
| priced small phone. It was sold for less than 250EUR, so even
| in smaller batches it should be possible to reach a 500EUR
| mark.
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| "Price: $700-800 (again, we have no alternatives so we should be
| willing to pay a bit more!)"
|
| Yeah, not going to happen - people in general are NOT going to
| pay _more_ for a _smaller_ phone. Even the iPhone mini is cheaper
| than the full size models.
| pmontra wrote:
| I'm not paying more than $300 for any phone, small or big. My
| ideal size was the Xperia X Compact, but a little bit thinner
| and with no bezels. Or the phone I got after that one, a
| Samsung A40 but 1 inch shorter.
| dont__panic wrote:
| I think it's possible, if marketed correctly. I'd 100% pay more
| for a smaller phone, I'm desperate at this point. Imagine a
| campaign advertising a phone that doesn't get in the way when
| you work out at the gym, or go for a bike ride, or when you're
| doing yardwork. A phone that you can use on the subway, or
| while walking around. A phone that doesn't constantly suck you
| into Facebook or TikTok or whatever social media you use.
| upsidesinclude wrote:
| Samsung S10e
|
| Already there and has probably every spec that's listed
| Animats wrote:
| There's the "lightphone."[1] Stuck at "pre-order" since 2019.
|
| There's this little Android smartphone from Shenzhen.[2] $104 in
| quantity 2, $74 in quantity 1000. You can get it from Amazon for
| about twice as much.
|
| [1] https://www.thelightphone.com/
|
| [2] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Small-
| Cellphone-3-0-I...
| Pasorrijer wrote:
| Closest is the Sony Xperia 5 or 10 series I think... My wife
| loves hers and I'm going to be getting one next.
| drusepth wrote:
| I just bought an Xperia 5 a few minutes ago for these exact
| reasons. Hope it is as good as reviews make it sound once it
| gets here!
| m000 wrote:
| For a phone that is not intended for heavy use (cramped screen,
| average screen-on time), 8GB of RAM seems like a pricey choice.
|
| Also, stock Android can be a mixed blessing. My guess this is
| mostly used as synonymous to "no bloatware". But stock Android
| doesn't necessarily translate to a better user experience, or to
| software updates for a longer time.
| kazinator wrote:
| It's funny to read some young person reiterating the desirable
| properties of small phones, completely oblivious to how smaller
| was universally better in cellphones phones before the smartphone
| era.
|
| http://www.mobilephonehistory.co.uk/nokia/nokia.php
| Nition wrote:
| The peak of that was the amazing Panasonic GD55:
| https://www.gsmarena.com/panasonic_gd55-372.php
| kazinator wrote:
| You still get a sad pang when you pull some old coat or
| backpack out of the closet and rest your eyes on the tiny
| cell phone pocket, that is of no use today.
| felixnm wrote:
| I bought my kids the first iPhone SE back in 2016 and they're
| still using it due to its size. I also think it's the perfect
| size and would love to have a Pixel phone with the same
| dimensions. I currently use the Pixel 5.
| Sohum wrote:
| Fellow small phone fan. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of the
| smaller OnePlus phones designed for kids.
| znpy wrote:
| I gave up and bought the iphone se 3 as soon as it shipped.
|
| I finally have a small phone again, and I'm liking ios.
| TedShiller wrote:
| Your dream Android phone is an iPhone
| mustaflex wrote:
| I have the same issue, I have big hands and going from a pixel 2
| to a pixel 6 has been a nightmare. I can't use the pixel 6 with a
| single handle.
| thanatos519 wrote:
| How about even smaller? :D
|
| https://www.techradar.com/reviews/unihertz-atom-xl-rugged-sm...
|
| I used to have a Sony Xperia X Compact and when its SIM slot
| stopped working, I went looking for a new phone and there was
| nothing of that size. I got the Ulefone Armor X7 Pro which was
| basically the same phone with a worse camera, less shovelware,
| and built to last. Still fits in my pocket, more or less.
| asimops wrote:
| I am currently using a Pixel 4a, which in my opinion is the
| latest useable Pixel.
|
| Since we are basically doing market research, here is my take ;)
|
| It is kind of sorted by relevance as it is in the order in which
| it came to my mind.
|
| Here is what I _need_ from a new phone: - height
| between 145mm and 150mm - width between 70mm and 75mm
| - thickness up to 15mm, I honestly don't care - storage
| atleast 128GB, expandable if possible - 3.5mm heaphone jack
| - USB-C 3 (at least 5Gbps) - fingerprint (in-display, or
| front bezel, back is also acceptable) - stock Android
| - hardware security features of the Pixel Line (Secure Element,
| Hardware attestation, everything that would make the GrapheneOS
| people want that phone) - "enough" RAM, maybe 6-8GB -
| recent SOC but *not* a power hungry flagship, I want the
| efficiency king - battery for two days of messengers and
| phone calls (no games, no social media crap) - no glas
| where it doesn't need to be - current wifi and bluetooth
|
| This is what is nice to have: - small top bezel
| for camera, ear piece, sensors - small bottom bezel to
| better reach the on display controls - fingerprint
| resistent, non slippery and light casing (maybe aluminium frame
| with tpu around) - easy to replace battery (doesn't need to
| be hot swappable, but no glue, not burried under the mainboard or
| next to *flimsy* ribbon cables) - IPXX rating -
| camera on Pixel 5 level
| t0bia_s wrote:
| I absolutely agree with size. I'm long time Samsung A5 2017 user
| because Lineage OS compatibility and size.
|
| However I'm refuse to pay more than 200 USD for phone. It is
| device that could be easily broken, lost or stolen. I also do not
| need super specs. I mean... It is ridiculous how basic purpose of
| phone (calls, messages, emails, contacts...) shifted to machine
| that has betters specs than laptops. Of course quite a lot o
| people simply switch from laptop to high end phone, but what
| about those who need reliable phone for basic communication and
| don't want to pay for features that don't actually need (I never
| used front camera, NFC, big screen for gaming, etc.)?
|
| Maybe I'm old fashioned but for me: * phone = communication,
| calendar, notes, GPS * pictures = camera * gaming, work = desktop
| Ensorceled wrote:
| My wife just bought the iPhone mini for all of these reasons, but
| she is definitely in a minority.
|
| The main use cases for smart phones are texting, email, social
| media Twitter/Facebook/Whatsapp/etc., general computing (banking
| etc.), games, video.
|
| All of these use cases are made better by a larger screen size.
| DanHulton wrote:
| I actually ended up going out and buying an iPhone mini today
| because of this thread. An upgrade from the 12 Pro.
|
| I love it. It's SO much lighter, and small enough that I can
| reach the entire screen one-handed, so no longer do I need to
| awkwardly try to find a place to put down whatever I'm carrying
| in my other hand just so I can text or interact comfortably.
| christilut wrote:
| Totally agree! I'm still on the Pixel 4a, starting to look at an
| upgrade but I don't think there is one. Luckily I don't demand
| too much from my phone, but making better pictures would be nice.
| notorandit wrote:
| Me too!
| m1sta_ wrote:
| Sony 5ii/iii
| gallerdude wrote:
| For me, the people who want smaller phones are the textbook
| example of a vocal minority. I've read so many Hacker News and
| r/apple threads about how people love and miss phones you can use
| with one hand. And then every few years a phone manufacturer will
| try it, and it won't sell at all.
|
| I almost think people with small phones just underestimate how
| much they'd be able to adjust to a larger phone.
| ncallaway wrote:
| > I almost think people with small phones just underestimate
| how much they'd be able to adjust to a larger phone.
|
| I switched from a large Android device to an iPhone Mini
| because I preferred the size. Before the switch, I had used
| pretty much only larger phones.
|
| So, at least for me as a data point, your assumption is wildly
| wrong.
| gallerdude wrote:
| This is good to know. It could also be that people with large
| phones underestimate how much they'd be able to adjust to
| smaller phones.
| emberfiend wrote:
| The Atom XL fits the bill, doesn't it? Or do you want bleeding
| edge specs & chipset?
|
| I like the general idea and wish that there were more small
| phones available.
| dchichkov wrote:
| There is Palm. It looks a bit like the first iPhone, but the size
| of a credit card.
|
| https://palm.com/pages/product
|
| Regretfully, it filled with a lot of carrier spyware (originally
| Verizon) that eats the battery in the background. If cleaned up,
| the battery life gets much better (up to two days). But, after a
| month or so, for me the phone for some reason factory-reset
| itself. Not sure, if it was an update or initiated by the carrier
| or a hardware glitch or something else.
|
| Nice, clean looking, unlocked, very inexpensive hardware (<$100
| refurbished), but very poor android build.
| [deleted]
| hnburnsy wrote:
| Check out Unihertz, they have a variety of unloved formats
| including small form factor and physical keyboards.
|
| https://www.unihertz.com/collections/smartphones/products/je...
| [deleted]
| this_is_eline wrote:
| It is kinda old (2019), but Samsung S10e is imho _the_ small
| (android) phone.
|
| 5.8" 1080x2280 AMOLED display, with a tiny hole punch front
| camera; Snapdragon 855, 6/8gm RAM, 128/256gb of storage (with
| support for microsd card); two rear cameras (wide and ultrawide)
| with great image quality(imho); ip68; gorilla glass 5; 3.5mm
| jack; usb type c; wireless charging + reverse wireless charging;
| fingerprint on power button (side mounted); ~4hours SOT
| (3100mAh); it comes with samsung's bloated os but you can put
| custom rom (i checked support for /e/ os and its supported, but i
| belive there are other options); ~400 euros
| Jiro wrote:
| I had to replace my phone because of the AT&T 3g shutdown and
| the fact that no company is going to pay AT&T to approve their
| old phone models. I got a S10E for pretty much the same reason:
| small, SD card, headphone jack, and resolution at least
| 1080x1920.
|
| I tried searching for a modern phone that still has all this
| and there's nothing. The best I could find is a current
| Motorola phone; most of them still have jacks and SD cards and
| some have reasonable resolution, but they're all large size.
| Some of them also support the FM radio chip if you want that.
| sdflhasjd wrote:
| I'm going to be upset when I'll have to replace my S10e with
| something larger and without a headphone jack.
|
| Samsung's UI has come a long way, now I actually prefer OneUI
| over stock Android.
| this_is_eline wrote:
| I just wish s10e has replaceable battery... (even tho that
| would prob ruin ip68 and design :) )
| nfriedly wrote:
| It's not impossible to replace the battery - https://www.if
| ixit.com/Guide/Samsung+Galaxy+S10e+Battery+Rep... - it's
| just a bit of a pain.
|
| And, yeah, it probably does compromise the waterproofing.
| makosdv wrote:
| Yeah, I just replaced mine a couple weeks ago. It wasn't
| hard, but it wasn't easy either.
| lbrito wrote:
| Wow, is sub 6" considered small nowadays?
|
| What have we done
| abruzzi wrote:
| My comment exactly. We've really defined "small" up! I'm still
| running my 1st get iPhone SE, because I've yet to see a phone
| that can replace it. With a 4 inch screen, I can just barely
| use it one-handed.
| amyjess wrote:
| Thankfully, much of this is because of edge-to-edge display
| technology allowing for larger screens in the same size
| chassis. My Pixel 4a with a 5.8" screen has the same 69mm
| width as my old Nexus 5 with a 4.95" screen, and it's
| _considerably_ less wide than my Nexus 5X or Moto X4 with
| their 5.2 " screens (especially the X4, that thing was way
| too wide and was intensely uncomfortable to hold... I
| actually had to get a case for that one, and I was miserable
| the entire time I owned it).
| dont__panic wrote:
| Some of it is. But phone chassis have slowly creeped up
| since 2012 or so, a few mm per year, to the point where
| there really aren't any phones in the small category any
| more. IMO the Nexus 5 is larger than I'd like -- something
| the size of the Nexus 5 _screen_ is closer to ideal. I 've
| been using the iPhone SE 2016 for years now, hoping for a
| worthy successor, and the situation has only gotten worse
| for many years running now. The Pixel 4a was the last phone
| that came even close to meeting my requirements (one-
| handable, fingerprint sensor, headphone jack), and it's
| going to run out of security updates _next year_.
| qwertfisch wrote:
| So we better define a maximum phone width instead of a
| maximum diagonal display size. The aspect ratio changed
| from 16:9 to 19:9 or longer over the years, but the "extra"
| display area is the space that was occupied by hardware
| (sensor) keys for navigation, which you still had to tap
| ... That leads to longer diagonal sizes per se.
|
| So phones are not really getting longer in aspect ratio
| (except for some VERY long Sony phones), and they got more
| display area because of less thick edges. Naturally the
| mathematical diagonal size is larger, but that is a moot
| measurement compared with older phones with their 16:9
| displays.
|
| I am comfortable with everything less than 70mm width, and
| because the aspect ratio is kind of settled on 16:9 +
| navigation keys (or 19:9 complete display), the length is
| naturally restricted to ~150mm or less.
|
| My A40 has 5.9" but still only 142 to 69mm in size. It does
| not feel like a 6" thing from 2017, and the reason is its
| small width and weight. Unfortunately, most new phones have
| width from 75+mm and weights of 190g or more.
| izzydata wrote:
| The Nexus 5X was the perfect size phone in my opinion. I'm
| content with the Pixel 4a at the moment, but it is clearly too
| tall to use with one hand for me. I have to shimmy it up and down
| to reach the top and bottom. Which I suspect is the problem with
| almost every phone these days.
| bedast wrote:
| I have an iPhone 12 mini. I switched to iPhone with the XR and
| felt it was too big. My old Pixel 2 feels larger than the 12 mini
| with it's 5" screen versus the 12 mini's 5.4", and that's because
| it physically is overall larger.
|
| When the iPhone 12 lineup was announced, the main talking point
| about the mini among reviewers and whatnot was how poor battery
| life will be. To be honest, once I disabled the 5G (I'm not
| anti-5G, I just don't need it most of the time), battery life is
| fine. In fact, it's pretty phenomenal for the specs if you've had
| any lengthy history with smartphones (my first LTE phone either
| needed multiple charges per day, or I carried spare batteries).
|
| It's pretty easy to build an echo chamber that agrees smaller
| phones are preferred and make it appear as though there's a
| decent amount of us, but the simple fact is, people like us are
| in the minority, and it shows in the iPhone sales. That's why
| there's not going to be an iPhone 14 mini, and why the mini
| design is probably going to be the next SE. And if you even look
| at the SE sales numbers, they're still not great against other
| iPhone models.
|
| On top of that, this audience, specifically, are probably not
| going to be upgrading every generation, so there's going to be
| gaps where we don't feed the machine/sales numbers to make it
| look better. I will not buy an iPhone 13 mini. I will not buy an
| iPhone 14. I probably will not even buy the next SE even if it's
| an iPhone 13 mini with a newer SoC. So long as my 12 mini keeps
| going, it'll continue to serve me. So I fail to contribute to the
| sales numbers to make it look better.
| NearAP wrote:
| >> It's pretty easy to build an echo chamber that agrees
| smaller phones are preferred and make it appear as though
| there's a decent amount of us, but the simple fact is, people
| like us are in the minority, and it shows in the iPhone sales.
|
| I'm not sure about that. This could be due to the
| marketing/positioning i.e. Apple first switched to producing
| bigger phones (with more features/power) which caused people to
| buy these bigger phones (there were no smaller & newer phones).
|
| After some complaints, Apple produced a smaller version of
| their phone but they market it as one with less features
| (smaller battery, smaller processor, etc).
|
| If Apple devoted resources to producing smaller sized phones
| with comparable features as the Pro, the statistics might be
| different. To be clear, a larger phone will always have some
| edge but the minis should not be clearly designed as a step
| down version phone
| bedast wrote:
| > After some complaints, Apple produced a smaller version of
| their phone but they market it as one with less features
| (smaller battery, smaller processor, etc).
|
| iPhone 12 and 13 minis are the same hardware with smaller
| screen and battery than their iPhone 12 and 13 (non-pro)
| counterparts. Are you referring to the SE or something? Even
| the SE has been getting upgraded processors with previous
| generation screens, cameras, etc.
|
| The minis have been flagship specs in smaller packages. If
| the smaller battery thing was to be a knock on Apple for
| making it inferior, how do you suppose you fit a full size
| iPhone 13 battery into that mini frame with all the other
| internal hardware the same?
| NearAP wrote:
| ahh, you're right. I went back and compared the specs [1]
| and the battery is the biggest difference. Somehow, the
| marketing I always came across was for iPhone 13 and the
| Pro. Don't believe I saw marketing for the mini. Cellphone
| providers I checked (when I thought about upgrading) didn't
| have the mini (12 or 13) upfront and center on their home
| page.
|
| 1. https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone13
| mini...
| bedast wrote:
| I suspect they just want more people to buy the more
| expensive pro devices, and there is no pro mini. You'd
| almost need entirely separate marketing for the mini to
| try to separate it from the rest as "interesting" and I
| suspect they knew this and didn't find it worth the time,
| effort, nor cost. Stick to "it exists" marketing and if
| people want it, they'll get it.
|
| They do, in fact, have separate marketing for the SE
| though. Which is why I suspect the mini isn't necessarily
| going away, but they do need to update the SE beyond just
| the SoC, so the next SE (probably multiple revisions in
| the next several years) are likely to be based on the
| current mini. The SE does get underlying hardware bumps,
| what keeps them cheaper is they're using old tooling for
| the chassis, and other hardware that's been in production
| for a while (display, camera, battery, etc). Now that the
| mini has been around mostly unchanged through 2
| revisions, they could definitely continue using that
| tooling for future SE models.
|
| And I'll be honest...an SE based on the mini with iPhone
| 15 (or whatever they end up calling it) performance
| specs? I probably wouldn't pass on that.
| sircastor wrote:
| I love my iPhone 12 Mini, and I was really disappointed when I
| found out the mini line is likely being dropped with the next
| generation (It's almost certain)
|
| Being very honest, I think the original iPhone was the right
| size - through the iPhone 4. I appreciate that people wanted
| larger screens, and larger screens accommodate larger
| batteries, but I think the 3.5" screen of the early iPhones
| made for a great size.
|
| Oh well.
| bedast wrote:
| Interestingly, the iPhone 4 is physically not much smaller
| than the iPhone 12 mini, but has a significant screen size
| bump. I was curious about this because my old Droid Eris had
| a 3.2" screen and I was curious how it physically measured up
| overall. It was slightly smaller than the iPhone 4. The idea
| that I have something, now, that is not that much bigger, but
| with so much more screen is super interesting because I had
| wanted to go back down to something small like that, and this
| is likely as close as I'll realistically get, and it's not
| that bad!
|
| My suspicion is, based on various bits of info I've seen,
| iPhone 14 won't see a mini and the next SE will be based on
| the current mini. They have been upgrading the SoC in the SE
| but not the camera nor the screen, and I bet they want to get
| that bumped up to something more modern. So this form
| factor/size may not be all that lost. Here's hoping, anyway.
| Linda703 wrote:
| needle0 wrote:
| The Rakuten Hand 5G (
| https://network.mobile.rakuten.co.jp/product/smartphone/raku... )
| sounds like it fits the bill at 138 x 63 x 9.5mm vs iPhone 13
| mini's 131.5 x 64.2 x 7.65mm, though it's only available in Japan
| from Rakuten Mobile.
| pellaeon wrote:
| Rakuten also previously released a tiny Rakuten Mini with 3.6
| inch screen
| https://network.mobile.rakuten.co.jp/product/smartphone/raku...
|
| Sharp also makes a lot of interesting phones:
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/05/japans-sharp-aquos-r...
|
| Plus, Xperia Compact series is from Sony.
|
| That made me wonder: - Why does it seem like Japanese
| manufacturers are the only ones making "different" phones? -
| Many other threads are talking about the lack of components and
| lack of component manufacturer interest, but if so, how did the
| Japanese manufacturers did it? - What is special about the
| Japanese market that allows these phones to survive? - What
| difficulty would there be for let's say Rakuten to sell their
| phones internationally just like Sony did?
|
| A few points of relevant observation: - Japanese consumer
| electronics manufacturers have a habit of keeping their best
| products only to Japan - such as DSLRs. - There is a strong
| customer base for mini devices in Japan. GPD pocket laptops are
| in regular stores.
| Helmut10001 wrote:
| I still use my HTC HD2 (12 years old) because I could not find a
| small phone. It is now on its 5th battery and still working
| flawlessy. The caveat is: I only have 5 apps and because there
| are no more.
| baq wrote:
| you can pry the iphone SE from my cold, dead hands.
|
| i've been in the anti-iphone group since the first iphone.
| frankly, android has (and more importantly android phones have)
| pissed me off more than apple and that's the primary reason of me
| being an iphone convert now.
| danirod wrote:
| I miss my old Moto G1. Light and with a small form factor, and at
| the same time it was one of the first phones that were cheap but
| not low quality.
|
| It made a breakthrough in a market where you either had an
| expensive Samsung or you dealt with cheap phones with very bad
| specs. This was ages ago, fortunately today there are more phones
| that are cheap but with acceptable specs.
| littlecranky67 wrote:
| Moto G1 had the perfect form factor, plus also the "rubber"
| like back which I really loved. I have no idea why glas
| surfaces on the back are a thing, I always have to use a phone
| cover as else it would slip my hands. The rubber the Moto G1
| allowed for a safe and firm grip, that every phone should have
| on the back.
| ajot wrote:
| +1, the MotoG had the perfect form factor. I'd love for a
| 2022 phone with a sub 5" screen.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I'm not sure how similar it was, but when I saw this post my
| first thought was the original Moto X. Even today, I think I
| might rate that as my favorite phone of all time. Perfect size,
| flagship-ish specs, grippy texture without a case, etc. Then of
| course the next generation made it huge.
| volleygman180 wrote:
| As an iPhone user, I've wanted to use an iPhone Mini ever since
| they came out. It was hard to compromise on the camera, coming
| from a Pro device, but I finally made the switch when the iPhone
| 13 Mini debuted.
|
| Within 24 hours however, I was back at the Apple Store returning
| it. What was the issue? Nothing wrong with the device at all - it
| was everything I hoped it would be! Unfortunately, the issue was
| with the apps instead.
|
| Developers have gotten so used to everyone being on bigger
| devices. Since the Mini _lowered_ the standard size of a device
| (and represented such a small audience), I found that most of my
| apps had various UI bugs as they were written to target a regular
| iPhone dimension or larger. In some cases, apps were unusable due
| to the UI bugs.
|
| As an iOS engineer, I can also speak to the development side of
| things. At the various places that I've worked, I can't say that
| any testing was ever specifically done on a device smaller than
| the smallest _regular_ iPhone (like an iPhone XS). Even our team
| of QAs had all kinds of devices that they'd use and we had
| automated UI testing, but an iPhone Mini was consistently
| overlooked.
|
| Maybe the device will be better in the future, but until then,
| the apps just aren't ready.
|
| Granted this is my experience with iPhones and iOS apps. Android
| could very well be in a different place. I expect less out of the
| app development on that platform, however, developers are also
| more attuned to targeting smaller screen sizes, given how many
| Android devices exist, so it could indeed be a better experience
| if you find a device that you like.
| djvdq wrote:
| Interesting, can you give an example of such apps "not really
| working" on iP Mini? I'm asking because my wife uses 12 Mini
| and she never told a word about it. I'm also using it from time
| to time in few apps and everything looks ok.
| mikestew wrote:
| I don't recall having UI trouble with a single app since
| getting a 13 Mini some months ago, nor have I heard such from
| my spouse. Would you have any examples?
|
| But for me and my house, pry that Mini from our cold, dead
| hands.
| causality0 wrote:
| _Currently there are ZERO premium Android phones with <6"
| displays. No amount of money can buy one right now._
|
| I truly do not understand why people refuse to buy flagship
| phones from a couple of years ago because they're "outdated" but
| then endorse some new phone with a garbage SoC that gets less
| performance. Buy an Xperia XZ2 Compact.
| j0057 wrote:
| ZenFone 8 is passable and less than 6", but still too big for me.
| sabas_ge wrote:
| Isn't the PinePhone 6"? https://www.pine64.org/pinephonepro/
| richardwhiuk wrote:
| 6" is iPhone 13 territory - iPhone 13 Mini is 5.4"
| synergy20 wrote:
| Our house wants small phones, we had Pixel 4a and 3(both size are
| small) and converted the rest three to iphone mini and iphone SE.
| over many years it does seem andriod phone has shorter life span
| and iphone lasts longer, which is one more reason we converted
| two andriod phones to iphones, in addition to the screen size
| reason.
| cassianoleal wrote:
| ...and I want an iPhone that's comfortable to use with a single
| small hand. Even the Mini is too big and certain tasks are either
| extremely uncomfortable (rotating the phone whilst balancing it
| atop a couple fingers so I can reach a corner, for instance), or
| just require both hands which sometimes is incredibly
| inconvenient.
| lcnmrn wrote:
| You want a Pixel 5 or 6a. Set smallest width to 432dp from
| developer settings. Check the result with mydevice.io to see 2.5x
| pixel ratio. You got a iPhone Max resolution for the size of a
| Mini.
| grishka wrote:
| I'd add a headphone jack to "must have". And I don't like these
| bezel-less displays. Just give me a more modern HTC Desire S. Or
| a first-gen iPhone SE that runs Android.
| cheeze wrote:
| And now you've made such a niche product that you and a few
| HNers want it, and that's about it.
| grishka wrote:
| I believe that there is a non-negligible number of people for
| whom their phone is a bit more than a communication device,
| and most of the things they do online, they do on a computer.
|
| I don't understand the appeal of these notched/hole-
| punched/rounded screens on phones. They solve no real
| problems. They are a gimmick.
| dti wrote:
| > are easy to use one-handed without dropping
|
| Not necessarily.
|
| I bought an iPhone Mini expecting that it'd be comfortable to use
| in a single hand like my previous Xperia phone of exactly the
| same width.
|
| Unfortunately, it is not the case: the iPhone screen is very
| close to the bottom edge, and to switch apps you need to move
| your thumb to the very edge and then swipe up, which is rather
| uncomfortable (or requires holding your phone very low, in which
| case, you can't reach the top of the screen without changing your
| grasp). Similarly, the keyboard is rather low and uncomfortable
| to use from the otherwise most natural single-handed grasp.
| santioriginal wrote:
| I'd like a small phone, big battery (I don't mind a bulge) or
| changeable * excellent dac * headphone jack * FM dab+ * ir * I
| would say: partner with Ricoh / Pentax for camera and with Onkyo
| for audio. Fujitsu as manufacturer.
| giords wrote:
| My opinion is that the demand for small phones will be satisfied
| by foldable phones.
|
| I see that option more viable and effective.
| aceazzameen wrote:
| Nah. A foldable is just an excuse to charge a consumer more
| money. It has features people don't need.
| DanHulton wrote:
| I actually really want a smaller screen, though. I have smaller
| hands and I want to be able to reach across it one-handed
| without having to precariously adjust my grip.
| ece wrote:
| The zflip/razr foldables have smaller screens.
| 7speter wrote:
| Interesting to me how all the tech people here want an iPhone
| mini sized phone when its the least popular and even the low cost
| to entry iphone se, which is also lauded around these parts is
| "struggling" to find buyers:
|
| https://www.pcmag.com/news/up-against-flashy-flagships-iphon...
| dbg31415 wrote:
| "You think you do, but you don't."
|
| I LOVED my iPhone 4 & iPhone 5 back in the day. I thought they
| were just perfect. I could reach all the keys, they fit in any
| pants, and they were just my favorite era of phones ever. Metal
| edges, glass front and back, no stupid camera bump -- perfection.
| For the time they existed, there was nothing to improve on those
| phones.
|
| But I pretty much hate my iPhone Mini. And it has almost nothing
| to do with the phone -- it's basically an improved version of the
| iPhone 4, except now it's got a stupid camera bump. And I would
| still love the form factor, but like... so many things just don't
| fit right.
|
| Apps just haven't been tested to work on it, especially if you
| tweak your default font sizes at all, and it's just a sub-optimal
| experience in almost every way. My fingers fit, but now websites
| are built with bigger fonts and need bigger screens. I
| passionately hate "viewport wobble" and you see it all the
| freakin' time on the iPhone Mini.
|
| Book an Uber? The buttons are off screen, or weird places. Sure
| that's the app's fault -- and frankly a lot of apps need to do
| better for responsive design in order to better improve
| accessibility (especially for elderly users!) but that's a bigger
| fight than I want to get into when I pick up a phone and just
| want it to work.
|
| So I don't know, like if I had a magic wand and could just zap
| every website, every app into compliance with the slightly
| smaller screen... sure it'd be great. But I don't, and that makes
| for a frustrating user experience that, frankly, ruins the iPhone
| Mini for me.
|
| My iPhone 4 was the best phone I ever had. Hands down. Loved it,
| emotional memories of it are still very fond. Wish I could find
| that again, really do.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| I really wanted Apple to create an iPhone Mini. I had been
| holding on to my iPhone 6S for years, hoping Apple phones would
| shrink again. So I was super excited when the Mini came. Once it
| came out, I was rather unhappy that there was no Pro version. I
| really, really wanted the cool Pro camera in a phone that's a
| substantial investment. I'd have been happy to pay more, but the
| Mini's price was high enough that lacking crossing the excitement
| line for the camera made me see too little value to invest. So I
| ended up buying the super cheap, new SE instead.
|
| I now wonder if the camera I want isn't possible in the size I
| want.
| davide_v wrote:
| Absolutely agree, but I think we are in the smaller size of the
| pie. I had for many years a Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini (4.3' 124mm),
| super small phone that I loved, then I switched to a Xiaomi Redmi
| 4 Pro (5.0' 141mm), reasonably small but bigger then S4 and still
| usable with one hand without risks. Then I switched to a Xiaomi
| Mi 9T for the huge body-display ratio and I always feel it's too
| big (6.39' 156mm) and sometimes I need 2 hands, and I've pretty
| big hands... Nowdays you can't find any good android phone around
| ~140mm in size, that I think is the perfect size.
| qwertfisch wrote:
| I also used an S4 Mini for a long time (more than five years),
| but its size and very small weight came at the price of not
| having the Full HD display of its big brother S4. It didn't
| even have a 720p display! Also the battery was much too weak.
|
| Still I searched the whole year 2019 for a replacement and
| finally settled on the Samsung A40, which has a FullHD(+)
| display, reasonably good battery, all features I wanted and is
| still lighter than other phones of same size.
|
| You are right, around 140mm length would be fine, and then an
| equivalent weight of 140 to 150g. I cannot stand these bricks
| with their 180, 200g of weight, no matter the display size.
| These are just not usable for me.
| sm4rk0 wrote:
| Current phone: Samsung S10e (5.8" AMOLED, 142mm/5.6" long) and
| previous: Motorola Moto X 1st gen from 2013 (4.7" AMOLED,
| 129mm/5.09" long). Very happy with them. Both being flagship
| models (powerful CPU), the only drawback is shorter battery life
| than other phones.
| thrwwmbkpr wrote:
| I loved the original Moto X! It was one of the first true smart
| phones my wife and I purchased, and almost the best. It's a
| great balance of features and practicality that I wish a
| premium (or near-premium) phone would return. If there are any
| comparable current models, please let me know.
|
| Hardware - Not premium, but a great combination of rugged, good
| looking, and practical. It was a pleasure to hold (and still
| was last time I pulled it out), with the soft, grippy, rubber
| back and "just right" size. Removeable battery was a plus.
|
| Software - Lots of nice little touches by Motorola. I wish
| Google integrated more of them when they bought Motorola, like
| the "double flick" to turn on the flashlight. One of the first
| with lock screen notifications in white.
| Daige77 wrote:
| The phone companies haven't even bothered to ask people what they
| actually want. They just take a wild guess, they make a bad phone
| and it sells bad, then they claim "see, people don't want small
| phones". That is just ignorant behavior on their side.
|
| No, we don't want ugly or clumsy phones. We don't want overpriced
| phones. We don't want brittle phones that can't stand a fall. We
| don't want phones with weak batteries that won't last a day. We
| don't want lousy cameras. We don't want laggy and buggy phones.
| We don't want good phones that are only available in other parts
| of the world where we can't buy them (Sony is making small
| phones...but only in Japan).
|
| The companies should ASK the consumers what they NEED. But they
| don't.
| richardwhiuk wrote:
| They look at sales figures for the phones they are selling.
| That tells them way more than asking people.
|
| <10% of iPhones sold are <6". That's the ball game.
| oogabooga13 wrote:
| I use the iPhone SE (Gen 2) and appreciate the size not the
| battery life. From a connectivity standpoint even the Apple Watch
| is sufficient (for me!) in a world where I have my iPad / Laptop
| / Desktop to choose from depending on the content and with the
| the M1 laptop even App Store games; where I want to play them is
| a matter of ultimate convince and choice these days.
|
| It seems like the mini didn't sell well and that is unfortunate,
| hopefully we can still have enough range of size choice within
| the iPhone eco system moving forward.
| talhof8 wrote:
| $700 seems a bit optimistic unless the scale gets really big.
| Anyways, I'm in!
| rabuse wrote:
| I love the size of my iPhone mini, and I've had multiple friends
| use my phone, and want to also shift into the smaller size; most
| didn't even know the mini was a thing.
| amyjess wrote:
| This is why I'm not moving on from my Pixel 4a. If it ever dies,
| I'll go on eBay or wherever and buy a new one. I don't even care
| if it goes EOL and stops receiving security updates.
|
| TBH if I do end up replacing it with something else, it doesn't
| have to be stock Android or even a powerful device. I'm okay with
| replacing my 4a with some cheap ultra-budget shanzhai phone as
| long as it's small and it works with T-Mobile US's LTE network.
|
| Also the iPhone Mini itself isn't an option--not only do I not
| want to be part of Apple's ecosystem, but I have sensory issues
| and can't handle metal phones. I need a plastic phone. And no, a
| case isn't an option because a case would just make the phone too
| wide for me to hold.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| For me the more problematic aspect of the 4a is the updates
| it's receiving make it so much slower. For instance at this
| point opening the camera takes around 3s, and the shutter
| button lags 2s as well.
|
| Going back yo the previous OS would fix that, but it was also
| buggy and missing proper support for the new gesture
| navigation. I love the phone but it also makes me hate Google
| so much.
| amyjess wrote:
| TBH I don't use gesture navigation so that doesn't matter to
| me. I just hate Android 12 because it forced ugly gray
| backgrounds on me. I miss being able to see the active
| application under my notification shade and to see my
| wallpaper behind the app switcher.
|
| At this point I think I'm just done with Google's Android and
| I think I'm ready to try one of those Chinese forks with a
| super-colorful iOS-like UX.
| bipson wrote:
| Huh?
|
| My 4a is works perfectly so far.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Interesting. I thought that was the battery, but status
| seemed to be ok.
|
| I'll try to see if there's some setting killing it.
| pja wrote:
| This is not my experience - my Pixel 4a takes < 1s to go from
| tapping on the Camera icon to seeing a camera image on
| screen. No shutter lag either.
|
| There's something wrong with your phone. Try resetting it
| maybe?
| xanaxagoras wrote:
| I went from Pixel 4a (first Android I've ever had) to Pixel 6.
| It's been about 3 months with the 6, I still have the 4a and I
| think I'm going to switch back. It's just too big, and the in-
| screen fingerprint reader isn't as good.
| gkhartman wrote:
| I like smaller size phones as well. I've considered the recent
| Moto Razr models. But I can't get over the fear of mechanical
| failure due to the hinge and folding screen. I'd much rather have
| a viable mainline linux phone even at a larger size, but that's
| for another thread.
| brundolf wrote:
| I got an iPhone Mini hoping to be able to use it with one hand,
| but it wasn't small enough to do that (and I don't have small
| hands), so I returned it. I figured if I'm going to need a
| PopSocket anyway, I may as well have more screen space too
|
| I'm not surprised the Mini has been underperforming. I think it's
| in an awkward valley where it's not small enough for that to be
| an advantage, it's only small enough for it to be a disadvantage
| ksd482 wrote:
| My thoughts exactly. I am 6'4" and I have an iPhone 13 mini and
| even I think it's too big for my taste.
|
| I simply need something that I can use comfortably with a
| single hand, small enough to call it compact and hide in my
| pocket.
|
| I totally get the appeal of a bigger screen though. I can
| appreciate it for what it achieves: bigger screen means easy to
| read, good for watching media, playing games and easier to type
| on it. But for my use case, I want to AVOID making it that easy
| to do all of those things while still getting benefits of a
| smartphone, let alone an iPhone.
|
| That's why I am really bummed that iPhone mini is going away. I
| don't think I'll switch to Android, because I have a lot of
| apple devices and the ecosystem integration is quite valuable
| for me.
| shp0ngle wrote:
| Are you sure you cannot buy such a phone from Aliexpress? They
| have all shapes and sizes of random stuff... they surely have a
| small Android phone.
| dmead wrote:
| 99% chance this is just going to be a whiteboxed phone of
| similar origin.
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