[HN Gopher] Taking a break from social media makes you happier a...
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Taking a break from social media makes you happier and less anxious
Author : yarapavan
Score : 662 points
Date : 2022-05-17 03:54 UTC (19 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.calnewport.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.calnewport.com)
| gigatexal wrote:
| I did the same for Twitter. I turned off notifications. And I
| check it only when I feel like it. Read up on some things.
| Comment. And then go away. It's been amazing.
|
| I read more. I have much more time to spend doing other more
| social things in meat space. It's been amazing to just turn off
| and the notification thing was the key: turning them off allowed
| me to control when I used the app and not the other way around
| (because a red notification counter triggers me to check it out
| etc.).
| unixhero wrote:
| Does Reddit and Hacker News count?
| env123 wrote:
| Yes, I only visit reddit when I have only have something
| curious about, I don't actively scroll through it, maybe a few
| minutes when I'm on it. That's healthy boundary.
|
| As for Hacker News, there is https://hackernewsletter.com/ that
| sends you mail of the best articles on startups, technology,
| programming, and more. All links are curated by hand from
| Hacker News. Join 60,000+ other subscribers and don't miss
| another week.
|
| They also offer daily mails, but I'd say avoid it.
| FrozenVoid wrote:
| Easy way to discern if site is social Cookie Clicker: 1.Does it
| provide a rating/score for content. 2.Does it reward users with
| larger rating/score? 3.Does it limit users with lower
| rating/score? If all three question are positive, then it is
| optimizing for content-score engagement type of users, pushing
| the lever for extra dopamine hits.
| kmarc wrote:
| I ran into this with a person of romantic interest. Thankfully I
| never got addicted to social media; once I could see that a
| "break from social media" would be the only thing that could
| possibly help this person.
|
| It never worked out between us, however I was exposed to rather
| relevant info on the topic.
|
| For anyone looking for tips and tricks to cope: r/nosurf [1]. Lot
| of garbage there but I found it interesting to see how many
| people have problems with this and how they found their
| epiphanies around it
|
| [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/nosurf/
| kkkkkkkskkk wrote:
| test
| blenderdt wrote:
| For people who struggle: a first step is to turn off all
| notifications.
|
| This doesn't work in the beginning but I noticed that over time
| this is giving more and more rest and makes you rething social
| media usage.
| testingwaters4 wrote:
| For me I found this made me check them more, as I would be
| thinking "well maybe someone has sent me a message since I last
| checked" and it might be true. It's a tricky one! I found
| uninstalling the apps and logging out on the web after each
| session helps a bit, as then there is some friction in having
| to check what's going on since I have to log in every time.
| Melatonic wrote:
| You know what's better than a break? A FOREVER break!
|
| So glad I got off Facebook so many years ago. Other social media
| sites can for sure be addictive or have negative outcomes but
| Facebook just always seemed to be the most toxic.
| block_dagger wrote:
| Taking a break from all your worries sure would help a lot...
| muterad_murilax wrote:
| Perhaps it's time we started calling it narcissistic media.
| zaphirplane wrote:
| I wonder if hacker news shares the underlying impact on
| individuals similar to social networks
| lazyjones wrote:
| Are we meant to be happy through ignorance? I'd rather be anxious
| and motivated to improve my life by fixing the issues that upset
| me, even in a "hyper-competitive" environment like social
| media... There's nothing wrong with trying to get a Lamborghini
| because some celebrity is showing off his.
| simonswords82 wrote:
| It's been about 5 years since I made the decision to quit
| Twitter/Facebook.
|
| The only social media I've got to endure is LinkedIn (which is
| becoming more like FB by the day but that's a separate
| discussion). This is purely because my target market live on
| there, so I have no choice but to be on there but as soon as I am
| able I'll disconnect from that too. I cannot wait for that day.
|
| Social media platforms are of course optimised by their owners
| for their owners. They could not care less about your feelings,
| so long as you keep coming back.
|
| I think 90% of all that is wrong with the world can be, at least
| in some part, traced back to social media.
|
| My view is that they have been devastating for the mental health
| of society - and the more people who realise that social media is
| bad for them the better.
| d4rkp4ttern wrote:
| Indeed, I do think LinkedIn is the new FB. Replace FB's "happy
| vacation photos" with "raised $100M seed investment" and you
| have LinkedIn. I am constantly surprised how much time people
| spend posting and liking stuff on LinkedIn, makes me wonder how
| they get any work done.
| ge96 wrote:
| I pretty much live in a box (apt no land). Always on the
| computer. I work a lot/work on projects. But then I hit that
| point where I can't do logical things/can't write more code. I
| can switch to physical projects or go to the park. But I really
| have been isolated from people I think since 2014 or so. I had a
| roommate for a few years after that then he moved out. I briefly
| worked jobs where you interacted with people day to day that
| helps with comradery.
|
| Lately though I'm getting tired of the scrolling/point driven
| life. I still can't make the jump yet (get property so I can
| spend most of my free time outside). Still social media is nice
| to pass the time and along with YT/TV, to fill that social void.
| In the past I've found it weird to be around people like I don't
| know what is normal and usually can't stand the slowness of the
| moment. Then it's super weird when you're in a crowded place ha
| (usually freaks me out).
|
| This is why when the internet dies I can't stand it... I remember
| my life how it's constantly using the internet to be in that
| state of motion. I'm not saying internet bad. Idk I'm like 3/10
| of the way through life so far, I gotta see what is considered
| worth still.
| erddfre3423 wrote:
| I definitely agree that getting a property is a good idea. I
| feel much better and it's easier to stay away from news &
| social media whenever I go to countryside, where I have lots of
| free space and things to do outside. In an apartment there are
| only so many things one can do, and too many screens nearby,
| especially for a remote-worker like me.
|
| Maybe urban life works for some people, but it definitely
| causes boredom to me, and social media & news are a distraction
| from that.
| leroy_masochist wrote:
| I'd be interested to hear whether other HN users consider this
| site social media. My mental model of HN is that it's basically a
| longform version of Twitter with a more interesting/intelligent
| and (slightly) less shrill user community.
| swayvil wrote:
| Consider the following scenario.
|
| You are ingesting a broad spectrum of experiences. Sights,
| sounds, smells, tastes... mysterious feelings... touching stuff
| with your skin...
|
| Then suddenly you fixate on a bit of media drama. You focus.
| Concentrate. This broadband experience is reduced to a narrow
| trickle of symbols.
|
| It's like breathing through a straw.
|
| You feel like garbage.
| ggm wrote:
| I stopped reading twitter and the boredom is only helping me find
| more interesting things to read (Kindle mainly)
|
| But I miss being snarky with a small circuit of online
| acquaintances. It was ego fulfilling, dropping one liners on
| almost-famous people (in context) and getting some degree of
| recognition.
|
| I'm getting some flak from family glued on, who want to know
| "where I went" but thats survivable.
|
| On the whole, agree with the premise. Its trash. USENET pre
| great-re-org was slow trash, ML are trashy only in very minor
| ways. Fast trash is worserer.
|
| HN is not that bad. I think it goes to moderation (Good job Dan!)
| which is done carefully. A blog I like has the byline "my blog my
| rules" and you know, for anything short of speakers corner I
| think this is fine: its not the commons.
|
| Elon and Donald can play there all they like.
| andrelaszlo wrote:
| I wanted to get off social media for a long time (Facebook,
| mostly) but couldn't bring myself to close my account. A few
| weeks ago I just uninstalled the app. I don't have any FOMO since
| I can always check on the computer,but I end up doing it less and
| less often. I think the behavioral hold they have on me is
| loosening, and it feels awesome.
| Agamus wrote:
| So, "antisocial media sites" is more appropriate?
|
| A person who has never used these "social" media services must be
| nearly enlightened by comparison to a modern facebook junkie.
| sealthedeal wrote:
| agreed. Dopamine reset
| blinded wrote:
| I run a local resolver on my home network and I block most social
| media for 23~ hours of the day. Definitely also helps with
| productivity. See yourself abusing time on a site? blackhole it
| via dns.
| K9z31DfON85ik5b wrote:
| https://socialmediapause.com/
| lr4444lr wrote:
| Hot take: I read what other people sre doing on HN and I feel
| like I'm an utterly mediocre dev who's just pushing features at
| work to make someone rich, and I can't do much about it because I
| have a family relying on my income.
| cpsns wrote:
| I definitely feel this one. I often feel completely worthless
| as a developer when I read sites like HN. I can barely grasp a
| lot of the cool stuff people are doing.
|
| It makes me feel like I don't belong in the industry and
| seriously depresses me. It makes me think I really am an
| imposter.
|
| Why do I keep coming back if that's what it does to me? I don't
| know.
| matt89 wrote:
| I don't necessarily think that is such a hot take, but a
| feeling shared by many of us. And I think that this ties to the
| title of the post and general discussion - many people (myself
| included) feel bad when seeing other people achieve something
| great or extraordinary. It's so easy to diminish ones
| achievements, I often do it as well, sometimes without giving
| it too much thought.
|
| But I think its also easy to forget that people in social media
| (or in HN posts) usually just present the best parts of them.
| Nobody talks about his/hers bad sides or vices, so it's easy to
| think that all the other people are great and better than us.
| In reality most people - like you and me - are probably in the
| 80-90% of normal workers, be it IT or not, that achieve some
| successes in life and have some screw-ups as well. What we see
| in social media is a highly curate 5% of people that shine the
| spotlight on something great they did.
| alickz wrote:
| You're not alone.
|
| Also when I see US dev salaries posted I feel like as a
| European I'm missing out big time.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| On that latter point though, go look at a US metro region
| specific tax calculator for those salaries, then subtract an
| extra $200 a month (or $500 for families) for health
| insurance premiums, and look at average rent in those areas
| too. The differential is still there, but less than you
| probably thought.
| cpsns wrote:
| It's still easily twice what I am making in Canada and our
| wages are closer to America than Europe's are.
|
| The worst part for me is working directly with Americans
| and knowing they're getting paid for more for the same job.
| eimrine wrote:
| The only case of social networks for me - all kinds of meetings /
| gathering. I miss the time when all organization campaign was on
| some traditional forums, I just do not find FB usable.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I can agree that social media makes things worse for me...
| Reading stupid arguments by malicious people just makes me
| angry... And the time wasted could probably be used on somewhat
| better things, like reading books, playing games, watching some
| movies or tv shows...
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| Does hackernews count as social media?
| d4rkp4ttern wrote:
| intense122 wrote:
| I took 1+ month break from Facebook and after I got back to check
| some groups, I totally forget to visit this social site so often.
| Like at the end of day, I remind myself that I wasn't there and
| still not missing anything. I was tired of bad news and angry
| comments.
|
| There must be really some dopamine effect about these things.
| Like person is bored so you scroll 100 posts which fulfils your
| desire and after some time when your levels drop, you come back
| making this something like habit. Similar to drinking coffee, a
| lot of people complain about headache if they don't drink right
| amount of coffee they are used to every day.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| Facebook's primary aim is to get you to stay so keeping your
| attention is key to getting you to look at more ads. You feel
| depressed by looking at other people's Facebook webpages which
| look positive and happy so you compare it to you own sad,
| miserable life. Reality is folk mostly post positive reinforcing
| stories, not the crap in their lives that you'd miss otherwise.
| The best way to deal with social media is to stop using it
| completely. Life is too short to waste your precious minutes on
| this planet using Facebook.
| tjr225 wrote:
| You don't say.
| 88913527 wrote:
| I took a break from social media for a year; it was excellent.
| Briefly after my return, I found out an extended family member
| passed away. Nobody would have told me otherwise. People will
| assume you're on there and in-the-loop even if you aren't. It's
| hard to navigate any social environment where that's an implicit
| given of others.
| impjohn wrote:
| I have a similar story, but for me it is 4 years and still
| going. I am generally calmer and my emotional amplitude is less
| pronounced during the day than when I was on SM, but getting
| involved socially means you really have to be proactive,
| otherwise you sort of disappear
| lvass wrote:
| I only used traditional social media for a brief moment around
| 16 years ago. What works nicely for me is I have noted down the
| birthdays of everyone I care about with org-mode. I always try
| to contact them, and also send messages on christmas.
| gadders wrote:
| I think if I had a phone that (apart from calls and texts) did
| Email, Whatsapp, an e-reader and a music/podcast player I think I
| would be interested. _Maybe_ a browser because some emails have
| links you need to action, but I realise using a browser opens you
| up to all the time-sinks you are trying to avoid.
| impjohn wrote:
| I've been away from facebook and instagram for about 4 years.
| Never caught the tik-tok or snapchat train, so the only
| consumption i do is light reddit and hackernews. The weirdest
| thing for others is that I can sit indefinitely without having to
| look at my phone and actually get lost in thoughts or even get
| bored.
|
| The downside is that it can isolate you. Where I live, if you're
| not on instagram you don't exist. My girlfriend is more up to
| date with what my colleagues are up to, even though I spent 8
| hours a day with them in the same office.
| moffkalast wrote:
| > or even get bored
|
| That's key for creativity after all.
| lexx wrote:
| I am in the exact same situation for the past 2 years. My mood
| is vastly improved. The social media isolation aspect is as
| important as the social media socialization aspect to me. Not
| important.
|
| The people I want to talk to are on discord or signal, and we
| do actual activities together
| RMPR wrote:
| > and we do actual activities together
|
| This! I have a good friend of mine who is very active on
| Instagram and tiktok, where I don't have an account. But the
| fact that we are doing activities together makes us close.
| Real life exists, and it's infinitely better than whatever
| the social app of the moment is.
| digisign wrote:
| I'd say it is better to know a few people well than skim the
| updates of hundreds.
| SCUSKU wrote:
| I would have to agree, I also gave up Instagram/Facebook
| because I noticed it impacting my mental health.
|
| The only thing I miss is the early days of Facebook when it
| was just humans being human, and posting pictures of them
| being silly or with their family instead of flexing about
| newly acquired money/status, etc. But maybe that's just me
| remembering with rose tinted glasses.
| impjohn wrote:
| Personally it's hard to understand if quitting SM changed
| my emotional response to a lot of things or if it is me who
| changed in time. It doesn't help that the agenda and
| techniques used by these platforms evolve all the time to
| find new ways to hook you in
| kilroy123 wrote:
| I feel exactly the same. The plus side is I can focus and crank
| out a full days work in only 4-5 hours. While other colleagues
| take 7-9 hours.
| arky527 wrote:
| I find this to be a good motivator to make better interactions
| with co-workers & friends. Since giving up FB/Instagram I've
| found conversations with friends to be much more engaging and
| fulfilling
| parasti wrote:
| For me, I've found that social media doesn't affect my level of
| happiness and/or anxiety directly. What it does do, is take up a
| lot of my time almost imperceptibly - leaving less time for
| other, more meaningful activities. It makes me feel like I'm
| running out of time every day, which in turn causes a feeling of
| anxiety.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I mainly use it to fill the time to be honest, spare moments
| here and there in between work and video games lol. That and
| taking my mind off things at work, which probably says a lot
| about my job satisfaction. But I'm starting a new job in a few
| weeks so we'll see how it goes, if it fits my activity on HN
| and co will drop significantly.
| spencerchubb wrote:
| Yes, I have seen the same pattern with myself. Tiktok makes me
| happy in moderation. But when it starts to displace too much of
| my life and I get less social interaction, exercise, etc, then
| I start to have some depressive symptoms. This would be more of
| an indirect cause.
|
| I think there are also a lot of people for whom social media is
| a direct cause of anxiety, especially young women.
| Tade0 wrote:
| I've discovered that internet arguments use up a decent chunk
| of my daily mental capacity, which would've been otherwise
| spent on work.
|
| I figured I would fight fire with fire and last week got into a
| few particularly ridiculous flamewars on different platforms
| and... it worked.
| blinded wrote:
| 100%
| nopinsight wrote:
| Do you/does anyone think this is something you would use?
|
| I'm working on _My Productive Homepage_ , a custom dynamic
| homepage you can set and customize the exact topics and goals
| that you care about. It will recommend unseen info/updates on
| only those things and display info in summary form (with links
| to sources).
|
| No distracting or trending news unless they are highly relevant
| to the topics/goals you explicitly choose. We intend to
| maximize user productivity, rather than engagement.
|
| I believe it can help people stay focused on what really
| matters to them while getting updates and stimulated, and
| discover useful info for work or serious hobbies.
|
| (And in work mode, it'd be a homepage you can open without
| guilt while at work. ;))
|
| _What important features would you like to get on such a
| custom, dynamic homepage?_
|
| Comments about the project in general would also be
| appreciated, eg on how helpful or unhelpful you think the
| project will be to you or people you know.
| MikePlacid wrote:
| > No distracting or trending news unless they are highly
| relevant
|
| No "unless", please. No news should be present. No events
| should be discussed until they are a week old, at least.
| nopinsight wrote:
| Sounds like a good option to add! We might allow the user
| to filter out recent news if they wish.
|
| Should discussions be optional (ie available but can be
| turned off) or simply not available on this site?
| leokennis wrote:
| Ugh. I'm not even on Facebook or active on Twitter and I have
| the same. I need to read the newspaper. Then I need to know the
| Economist's and The Guardian's and the NY Times' view on the
| daily news as well. Plus I need to keep up to date on the COVID
| situation and the war in Ukraine. Oh and I'm also behind on
| Better Call Saul. And I need to watch 1917 and Dune. And I want
| to read at least 10 pages in a novel every day. And my RSS
| feeds.
|
| Oh, and I have a full time job and I need to exercise and I
| want to be in bed by 23:00.
|
| I'm always in a hurry...
| azemetre wrote:
| As for your news issues, I'd honestly go with the approach of
| never reading information about breaking stories. Most often
| breaking stories aren't breaking and they rarely have the
| full picture.
|
| By delaying your news consumption a few days (or even a week)
| you'll have a much better picture of the news with the
| benefit of never needing to "keep up."
|
| Also my personal opinion, very often the news isn't relevant.
| The decade defining stories don't happen every day and
| there's very few stories that require your immediate
| attention, versus say your weekly attention.
|
| That's why I'm a big fan of Delayed Gratification (someone
| posted this on HN a few months back):
|
| https://www.slow-journalism.com/
|
| Journalism that is deliberately slow and very informative
| (IMO).
| cute_boi wrote:
| Yes, few people probably aren't affected by social media just
| like smoking & drinking. But from my personal experience many
| people really feel jealous/unhappy/lonely when they look on
| false reality. And, those influencer really makes everything
| worst.
| thomashop wrote:
| Tabloid magazines that only talk about the rich and
| celebrities have always been super popular which also makes
| people depressed. I think this is nothing new with social
| media.
| 88913527 wrote:
| A printed magazine doesn't have the doomscrolling ability
| of social media apps. The same effect, but a magnitude
| smaller dosage.
| Gigachad wrote:
| For me it's not the fake people showing off, it's all the
| news, drama and doom. And arguably it's all irrelevant
| anyway. As an Australian, if I had known nothing about
| Ukraine, BLM protests, Trump, Kyle Rittenhouse, etc, my life
| would be no bit worse or less informed. It would probably be
| a bit better. But if I check social media it's just a non
| stop stream of crap.
| dividuum wrote:
| I switched my Twitter Trends location to Falkland Islands
| and my feed to "Latest Tweets". I guess this technically
| now is a filter bubble, but I don't feel like I have the
| obligation to expose myself to algorithmic content and its
| generated outrage.
| mongol wrote:
| That's a weird mix of contemporary events to mention
| together.
| Gigachad wrote:
| This is the kind of stuff that ends up filling my news
| feed. None of it has ever had any real effect on my life
| but it all seems to get equal feed real estate on
| reddit/twitter
| vmception wrote:
| Yeah you need to start over if you plan to continue using
| social media at all
|
| You're stuck in a filter bubble thats irrelevant to you
|
| If you start over, dont follow the same people, dont
| import your contacts, dont give it the same phone number,
| even for one time passcodes, dont use the same email
| address
| mongol wrote:
| Unsure about that.. I don't think Australia has been
| isolated from the rippling effects of price increases of
| grain and energy, that is one effect of the war in
| Ukraine. Probably not as much affected as many other
| countries, but I think you would still import products
| from countries where these effects are significant, and
| which have had to raise their prices due to it.
| capybara_2020 wrote:
| As someone out of Asia, the information the previous
| poster mentioned has near zero relevance to me. Barely
| any ripples from the events happening with the topics
| mentioned.
|
| But still for some reason my feed is flooded with that
| news and it feels like there is a lot pressure to take a
| stand on topics I neither understand nor care about.
|
| Social Media feels suffocating at times, it is like
| teenage peer pressure multiplied by a factor of 100.
| roywiggins wrote:
| I think this is less social media problems and more
| American cultural hegemony problems, especially in
| English-language media of all types.
| watwut wrote:
| Ukraine specifically is even bigger news issue in Europe.
| The closer to Ukraine, the bigger, unless you are Belarus
| or some such.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| Reports on price increases on grain and energy is not the
| same as minute details on troop movements and artillery
| hits or interviews with various retired US generals and
| former Russian officials.
| idontpost wrote:
| But none of that is likely to be actionable information
| for them.
|
| It's like hearing that meteor is going to kill us all
| tomorrow and there is nothing you can do. Sure, it's
| going to affect you, but your life isn't going to be any
| better if you know.
|
| It's just pointless anxiety.
| mongol wrote:
| Certainly, if you only want to hear about actionable
| information, you can strike out most of news all
| together. You can pick up a history book in 30 years to
| read up on what was happening in the world. Perhaps you
| will be happier for it, I don't know.
| XorNot wrote:
| If you only want actionable information, why bother
| reading a history book?
|
| Questioning "why know things" is a weird take on HN,
| which is itself a news aggregator.
| watwut wrote:
| This is called uninformed voter - the one that votes on
| what went on 100 years ago, but ignores what contemporary
| parties and politicians actually do.
|
| For the record, I did skipped news entirely for few
| years. Yes, I did not knew about some things that may be
| stressful to know about. I was also dumb af when it came
| to voting or just generally having opinion on what is
| going on. This sort of person is super easy to
| manipulate, because missing context accumulates. So I do
| read them ever since, because I dont want to be that kind
| of voter.
| the_gipsy wrote:
| Politics: it is what most impacts your life, yet you
| cannot change it, at all.
| MikePlacid wrote:
| > Politics: it is what most impacts your life,
|
| Doubt that. I've lived through some changes of the ruling
| party in my current country, the only changes I've
| observed were: 1) would taxes be 49.9% or 50.1%, 2) in
| which exact foreign country our military will be waging
| or supporting another useless war.
|
| Compare that to the price of the stock of your company...
|
| > yet you cannot change it, at all.
|
| Oh, you can. I've changed the politics around me twice
| already: 1) I've participated in overthrowing the
| government- result was good for me, but not so good for
| the whole country, 2) I've swapped a country - _that_
| worked dramatically good, both for me and my new country.
| So use recipe 1 with extreme caution, but recipe 2 looks
| safe to recommend.
| coffeeblack wrote:
| There was one president recently who didn't start a new
| war (first president in 40 years) but I was told that he
| was "dangerous".
| MikePlacid wrote:
| True. But looking back - was that rather unusual change
| in politics, including no new wars started, something
| that "most impacted your life"?
| the_gipsy wrote:
| I don't know what country you're based on, but in my
| country there are huge differences in legislation between
| legislatures of right or left parties.
|
| Regarding impact, no, you individually have not changed a
| single thing. A single person in a protest or a single
| vote simply has no impact.
|
| Changing country is one way to take control, but I would
| argue that the politics itself are unaffected.
| MikePlacid wrote:
| > in my country there are huge differences in legislation
| between legislatures of right or left parties.
|
| Really? Somewhere in Europe? But I still doubt that these
| differences are something that "most impacts your life".
| Let's compare with the stock price of the company you are
| working in, e.g.
| the_gipsy wrote:
| Yes Europe. Yea maybe that's true, and you also have
| almost zero impact on that, unless you're CEO or
| something :)
| coffeeblack wrote:
| The price increases started before the invasion and have
| more to do with the printing of money during corona. But
| people forget quickly, despite social media.
| throwaway290 wrote:
| If you're in the US, you'd be highly attuned to these
| events and putting them together would be a striking
| dissonance. But really the common trait of these events
| is that they are widely reported by US media but aren't
| really consequential or actionable to an ordinary person
| anywhere else in the world (excluding the war in Ukraine,
| which is also consequential in parts of Europe).
| coffeeblack wrote:
| Simply mute people who post the crap. Or use more localized
| social media.
| Gigachad wrote:
| Part of the problem is I do get sucked in to the drama
| really. There is nothing really of value on twitter other
| than drama.
| coffeeblack wrote:
| Twitter is great if you are interested in breaking news
| on specific topics. Most people aren't though.
|
| Twitter is terrible for discussions, so there I agree
| with Joe Rogan: "never look at the comments".
| prashantsengar wrote:
| When I was a kid and new to FB, someone told me to check
| the comments on the meme pages. They used to be funny and
| I thought that I had been missing out. So I made a habit
| of checking comments of all the posts.
|
| Now it is a cesspool of trolls everywhere.
|
| Now checking comments used to generate so many negative
| emotions in me that I have told myself the same - "never
| look at the comments". I feel happier now.
| mcphage wrote:
| "Never read the comments" is much older than Joe Rogan.
| abdouls wrote:
| Once you get in, you cannot get out easily. The algorithm
| works, you keep getting "better" and "better" content that you
| just keep want to watch it.
| MikePlacid wrote:
| > I've found that social media doesn't affect my level of
| happiness and/or anxiety directly.
|
| American privilege? Each time a war flares up in my home
| country I am going into a pretty deep depression. And the only
| cure is to switch off the Telegram. Which is frankly rather
| hard to do, but possible. A third week going strong...
| parasti wrote:
| Eastern Europe.
| ayngg wrote:
| I think social media is like our generations tobacco, everyone
| uses it and it is considered fashionable and cool but
| eventually it will start to come to light how unhealthy and
| insidious all the data harvesting, time sinks and gamifying
| social interactions at scale can be, especially with children
| who have much of the spare time to dedicate to it.
| somenameforme wrote:
| I'd argue it's more similar to cocaine. Tobacco is unhealthy,
| but the consequences were somewhat intuitive long before
| being proven (repeatedly cycling smoke through the lungs is
| intuitively unhealthy), and the real health effects aren't
| especially visible except over long time frames and with
| large samples.
|
| By contrast, the shifts in behavior, effects, and downsides,
| of cocaine become apparent extremely rapidly and it's
| consumed in a way that makes it less obvious of the dangers.
| Vin Mariani [1] was a popular wine created in the mid 19th
| century. It's advocates included royalty, Popes, Thomas
| Edison, Ulysses S Grant, and countless others. It was wine
| mixed with cocaine. That wine itself also served as the
| inspiration for Coca-Cola - Coke, whose name derived from its
| two primary ingredients: Cocaine + Kola Nut.
|
| Employers would give their workers cocaine to improve
| productivity, individuals themselves would use it (or various
| common products containing it) for similar ends, or just
| simple recreation. And we basically had a society where a
| large chunk of people were frequently coked out. But it was
| undoubtedly difficult to realize how absurd we all were
| because when something becomes ubiquitous, what do you have
| to compare it against?
|
| And I think that's much closer to the reality we now live in
| where the impacts of social media are rather extremely
| evident on both a micro and macro scale, yet not only is the
| vast majority of society already hooked on it - but the
| people in power with the capacity to curtail its ails are
| themselves just as addicted to it, or alternatively
| exploiting it for their own personal benefit.
|
| [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin_Mariani
| shrimpx wrote:
| To add to your idea, social media shares a deep property with
| tobacco: people know it's bad and keep consuming it. Part of
| the reason is soft social pressure: nobody wants to be the
| odd one out by quitting.
| MikePlacid wrote:
| > nobody wants to be the odd one out by quitting.
|
| Uhm... how do you know that?
| basisword wrote:
| And much like non-smokers are effected by smokers
| (particularly when they were the majority) non-social media
| users are still affected in the sense that it has completely
| changed and polarised our politics, social/justice issues
| etc.
| watwut wrote:
| If there were no social media, there would be no social
| issues. Only talk radio and 4chan, so we would all be
| radicalizing in the same direction.
| j7ake wrote:
| I think it's like combining the addictiveness of tobacco with
| the time sink of television.
|
| Tobacco is addictive but I'm not sure if it is a time sink.
| majjam wrote:
| I suppose if you take $10 as the price of a pack of
| cigarettes and $15/hr as the wage earned, then you could
| argue 2/3 of an hour of leisure time/personal life is lost
| per pack purchased/smoked.
| varjag wrote:
| The cigs were a much better price proposition before
| smoking was ostracised. Pennies on a dollar.
| xmprt wrote:
| I think you can substitute time sink with lower life
| expectancy for tobacco.
| arkey wrote:
| You should see the wonders of the smoke breaks some
| 'senior' people had in the first consulting firm I worked
| for. One cigarette here, one cigarette there... aaand that
| wraps it up for the day, here's hoping the interns did some
| actual work.
| cush wrote:
| It's much worse than tobacco. At least tobacco only kills
| people when they're older, whereas social media robs young
| people of their mental health while simultaneously
| threatening truth and democracy
| Clubber wrote:
| >while simultaneously threatening ... democracy
|
| This seems to be the latest topic from the outrage machine.
| Can you explain how social media is an actual threat to the
| democracy or democratic process to a reasonable person?
| cush wrote:
| When you say reasonable person, do you mean layman? If
| so, watch the Social Dilemma. There was Cambridge
| Analytica and other countless misinformation campaign
| examples
| system16 wrote:
| Roughly 50% of the population in the US have an absolute
| distrust of the media, election results, and science. But
| wrap something up in a meme and post in on Facebook and
| it's treated like Gospel.
| Unearned5161 wrote:
| I was originally going to write a whole drawn out thing,
| but I realized it wasn't necessary.
|
| One interesting aspect to think about on how social media
| affects democracy is the aspect of education. I can't
| find the video right now, but I remember seeing or maybe
| reading a post that said how you watch all these videos
| on all these topics ranging from math to economics to
| civil engineering etc, and you build this false
| perception of "oh yeah I know this shit", but really you
| don't, you know one summary that was presented to you.
|
| Those channels: Tom Scott, Johnny Harris, 3B1B, etc. Are
| all amazing in the time they spend learning their
| material and then producing such high quality
| instruction, but even if you watched an hour long video
| on econ you still wouldn't be an economist. A lot of us
| know this, but there are a lot of us that don't, and we
| then go to vote on bills and politicians thinking we know
| the implications of our actions and how it might affect
| the country when we really don't.
|
| Of course this isn't just a conversation about social
| media and it can devolve into a conversation about the
| dangers of an uneducated democracy overall. But I feel
| that social media definitely contributes to this false
| sense of educated that a lot of people have, pair that
| with echo chambers, misinformation, and an addictive
| formula and you've got a troublesome future.
| antiframe wrote:
| > Can you explain how social media is an actual threat to
| the democracy or democratic process to a reasonable
| person?
|
| The best explanation I've read of this is Tim Urban's
| "The Story of Us" series [1]. It builds up a model from
| individual behavior to societal behavior and how it's
| changed over the decades due to how online interactions
| have shifted behavior (both individual and societal).
|
| I don't know whether it's the right or wrong model and
| explanation, but he lays it out very clearly.
|
| [1]: https://waitbutwhy.com/2019/08/story-of-us.html
| Clubber wrote:
| I read that series when it first came out, so it's been a
| while. Forgive me if it's hazy. I completely understand
| the political divide and how it started in the late 80s.
| Limbaugh was really the frontrunner of our modern version
| of it. Fox took his model and applied it to TV. Many
| traditional news companies adopted that model for the
| left, and here we are. Social media is really just an
| extension of that.
|
| I'm not sure how it's a threat to democracy though. I
| certainly don't believe it originated on social media
| either. People on both sides repeat some really dumb
| shit, but that's always been the case.
| MikePlacid wrote:
| > Why do we insist on still shrugging our shoulders and
| continuing to treat the use of these tools like some sort of
| unavoidable civic and professional necessity?
|
| I am positively charmed by that "we" above. Time and time again
| people are telling me their theories about how our world works -
| and these theories imply that I do not exist. Charming, no?
| vehicles2b wrote:
| Is a week long enough to experience such changes? Probably for a
| change in perceived well-being, but for a change in depression or
| anxiety it seems too short. Anti-depressants and therapy work on
| a timescale of months. I don't know, maybe social media has a
| profoundly negative effect on mental health and its removal for
| even a week can cause immediate benefit.
| langsoul-com wrote:
| Not too surprising. They have millions to optimise for your
| attention, which is via emotional reactions.
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| I fast from food for a month a year due to religious reasons
| (from dawn to dusk). During this time,I fast from social media
| (telegram, twitter mostly).
|
| After about a week, I feel anxious at a superficial level but it
| levels off and I feel much better about 2 weeks in. After the
| whole month, when I log into twitter again, I can really feel a
| mental shift. Almost like being dragged back into it. It's not
| pleasant. I'm not surprised by these findings.
| fastball wrote:
| Might be easier to just say you fast for Ramadan.
| password54321 wrote:
| Is islamophobia these days that bad that you made sure to
| totally avoid mentioning Islam or Ramadan?
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| Nope. You can look at my profile to see that I don't "avoid
| mentioning" my faith. At the same time, I don't like to wave
| it around everwhere either. Just didn't think it was relevant
| to the point being discussed. I'm on a few groups where non
| Muslims tried out the fast (physical and intellectual) and
| had positive results so I wanted to emphasise that rather
| than ramadhan itself.
| WilTimSon wrote:
| I'm curious, do you also tend to fast from news sources, if you
| follow any? HN, BBC, stuff like that. Things that aren't social
| media but might have a similar effect where you get overwhelmed
| or anxious from the information.
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| Very incisive question.
|
| When I first moved off the social media sites, I went to
| google news to "stay informed". I had enough self awareness
| to realise that I was treating it more or less the same way I
| was treating twitter so I stopped looking at those too.
| somenameforme wrote:
| I don't think people are getting overwhelmed or anxious from
| the information, but rather from the way that information is
| presented. The past was, in nearly every measurable way,
| vastly worse than the present. In the span of a single life
| you go from WW1 to the Spanish Flu to the Great Depression to
| WW2 to the very real threat of nuclear annihilation which
| nearly came to be multiple times.
|
| And you didn't need to seek out information on this. You were
| likely directly affected by some of these events. If you
| weren't, you certainly knew somebody who died or was
| otherwise severely affected themselves. I mean think about
| COVID and then bump up its impact exponentially. And then
| imagine living through events of this scale over and over and
| over and over again. That is what people in the past lived
| through.
|
| Today you can present data impartially, or emotionally.
| Emotional narrative gives a million clicks, a million shares,
| and drives extreme "engagement" that is a hair's breadth away
| from mob mentality. You can also present data impartially,
| which drives little more than a more informed society. It's
| not a surprise which path we take.
| guerrilla wrote:
| > Today you can present data impartially, or emotionally.
| Emotional narrative gives a million clicks, a million
| shares, and drives extreme "engagement" that is a hair's
| breadth away from mob mentality. You can also present data
| impartially, which drives little more than a more informed
| society. It's not a surprise which path we take.
|
| You also forgot the part where it's not in any of their
| interests to produce anything impartial. 100% of it is
| propaganda for someone or another, even the stuff
| pretending to be "impartial."
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| Yeah. The OP was specifically about social media and
| regular news outlets mimic the highly addictive techniques
| used there to sell their own news. The medium, after all,
| is the message and I was specifically talking about how
| staying away from it feels good and going back feels bad.
| Hitton wrote:
| If it's not pleasant, why do you return there?
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| Something akin to FOMO. I feel "out of touch". I don't like
| it 100% but there are some benefits to it. The platform
| itself doesn't encourage the beneficial behaviours though. It
| just tries to get you hooked.
| HomeGear wrote:
| If that's the case, why come back at all?
| rektide wrote:
| There's some real things I want to appreciate & root into here,
| but as a geek growing up, one of my greatest & most persistence
| annoyances was how easy & happy it was for so many around me to
| pick being so ignorant, so blind, so insular.
|
| Heck yes ignoring the world & big matters makes you happier. Heck
| yes keeping blinders on & seeing less is safer, more secure,
| simpler.
|
| But fuck that. Fuck ignorance. Face things, see the scope of
| things. I hated the choice of ignorance then. Today I can at
| least accept that there's validity in multiple paths. But when we
| dock the people opting into the world for the real emption,
| empathy, & pain they experiemce for trying to see more? This is a
| modern mind-poison. There's so little to be said for being aware,
| for caring, by any measurable form. But we should. Boiling
| everything down to what is good for the individual is
| insufficient to maintain a society & this view will keep going on
| and on and on and it's so gross, so deeply deeply inadequate &
| shit.
|
| Edit: there's a lot of very very sorry followups with people with
| really shitty social feeds & want-anxiety. Yes, that is some
| people's experience. But it hasnt been what I've seen. It hasnt
| been what people I know experince. Some of the greater hazards
| I've seen have been a kind of para-societal living-in-the-event
| that some people have, without any real stake, but I generally
| dont see anywhere near the level of Fear Uncertainty or Doubt the
| social-network-panic comments widely want to freak us out about.
| There is a knowing, real, & reasonable wokeness & solidarity, and
| so little of the negative pressures in my feeds that others tout,
| the people everywhere around me from so many decades & places are
| so much more nuanced & in tune & multifaceted in their view of
| the affairs & goings on than the media. This demonization of
| social media is a panic I simply dont see, anywhere. I think
| society has warped itself into an unjustified & unreasonable
| frenzie against something that is far less scary than we &
| especially the media make it out to be.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| And you learned of reality, and what did you do to change it.
| What did you personally gain? What did you personally
| contribute to the collective?
| Mvandenbergh wrote:
| Sure, but:
|
| 1) The writer, Cal Newport, gets his news from reading a
| broadsheet newspaper cover to cover every morning. (Not in the
| link but he's written about it elsewhere). I think it would be
| hard to argue that he's less well informed than someone
| scrolling through reddit, let alone FB or Instagram.
|
| 2) He's also said, and I agree, that pre-2006 or so Twitter and
| FB were pretty benign social media and have a lot of positives.
| Critically, this is before they developed infinite scrolling
| style timelines which are setup to maximise engagement. They
| were just chronological feeds of things posted by people you
| chose to follow.
|
| 3) Similarly to (2), the way those algorithms are optimised is
| _not_ to deliberately expose you to the views of a wider range
| of people than you affirmatively chose to follow (although they
| could be!) but to maximise eyeball-time regardless. It turns
| out that the way to do that is to let highly emotionally
| charged and extreme views rise to the top.
|
| As a result, the things you see will be either things you
| violently agree with from your bubble or things likely to
| trigger an immediate counter-response from what I think of as
| your anti-bubble. The anti-bubble looks like diverse views but
| are actually just fully defined as the inverse of the bubble's
| views. This deadens the space for mutual political engagement.
|
| I think that "social media" could do lots of great things if it
| worked differently but I just don't think that empirically it
| does.
| sghiassy wrote:
| I'm all for engagement in news, world events and deliberate
| conversations.
|
| Social media seems different in that increased feed engagement
| (read: revenue) for these companies can be to feed into
| insecurities. That's not informational, that's predatory.
| mylons wrote:
| if you decide to experience the entire world, all the time,
| there's no respite from the awful. the human mind just isn't
| capable of handling that well.
| sibeliuss wrote:
| Picture an individual doom-scrolling through their feed,
| feeling empowered by their knowledge. Can you see it? Poof. You
| wake up.
| [deleted]
| virtue3 wrote:
| I think the nuance here might be in keeping your head still in
| the general news of the world but avoiding the things that
| cause "tribal syndrome" or anything with "keeping up with the
| joneses".
| apatters wrote:
| When someone develops a distorted picture of the world and
| becomes an activist based on it, that's just as bad for society
| as if they had never activated in the first place. In fact you
| could make a case that it's worse, mass shooters tend to be
| highly ideological and have views that are at odds with
| reality.
|
| The problem we have with social media (and to a degree
| traditional media as well) is that both the nature of the
| technology and the profit incentives of the platforms encourage
| shallow thinking and cognitive bias among users. Going from
| paper to screens was bad enough in terms of its documented
| effects on focus and comprehension. Add to that shrinking the
| screen down to the size of our palms, enforcing 280 character
| limits, amplifying the most outrageous voices etc. and I
| sometimes wonder how civilization is still intact!
|
| I agree that people should maintain some form of awareness of
| social issues and participation in them, democracy doesn't work
| without this. But an information diet heavy on social media
| will promote a distorted awareness of the world. And time spent
| on social media feels significant but it doesn't actually
| effect change. Things that do include: voting, attending a
| protest, writing to your congressman, volunteering your time
| and labor, earning extra income which you can donate to a
| cause, etc.
|
| There are a lot of ways to get informed, participate &
| influence society, social media is one of the worst. It's the
| junk food of activism.
| rilezg wrote:
| I would say that interacting with the physical world/people is
| much richer and more fulfilling than social media (or any other
| media). Being aware of 'the world & big matters' does not make
| a person good or interesting. What really matters is not what
| media a person consumes (or does not consume), but what they
| do.
| drekk wrote:
| Social media isn't the world, or a big matter. One can still
| read/engage with the news without having to deal with as many
| dark patterns. We don't have a public digital square, but I'm
| not going to help Zuckerberg et al further privatize it at my
| own mental expense.
| Hamuko wrote:
| > _One can still read /engage with the news without having to
| deal with as many dark patterns._
|
| Is it the dark patterns that are causing anxiety and
| depression?
| rektide wrote:
| If anything I think my social media feeds/friends have far
| far more nuance & balance, accept the duality of existence
| & show it off, far far far more than the bland & polemic
| media/news.
|
| Imo the social media panic is mostly people afraid of
| genuineness & earnesty, or people jist afraid of an idea
| they dont at all have any connection to or understanding
| of.
|
| There is a very very real problem that this world lacks
| accessible role models. That we dont know who to look to,
| that we dont have local examples. That's not a social media
| problem: that's just ehat happens when the well-to-do parts
| of the economy stratify up & up & up & real living gets
| trashy cheap & hard. Some people fall for the shallow signs
| that are projected, on social media or in other cultural
| distribution mechanisms (music is a big longstanding
| distributor of cultue for example). But the lack of real
| meaning far far far outstripsy concern with social mediacs
| ability to let shallow symbols spread.
| tayo42 wrote:
| idk about that, a lot of news sources feel like they're
| optimizing for clicks too. where is some boring neutral news?
| then am i to broken to even stick with something like at this
| point lol maybe i need the clickbait
|
| i agree with the main point, social media isnt the world. i
| think people forget that
| jfim wrote:
| There are some news sources that are less click baity and
| partisan, such as Axios, DW, or Reuters. If you can read
| French, courrier international is decent too.
| pjerem wrote:
| Courrier International is totally worth the reading and
| its concept is pretty smart : most of their article are
| just translated articles from foreign ( = not France
| based) newspapers. It allows the reader to get a view of
| the current topics from the outside of the country.
| Furthermore, by its nature of being translated, this
| newspaper have to be "slow" and can't fall under the
| "breaking news" clickbait temptation.
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _where is some boring neutral news?_
|
| In print form. That comes to your physical mailbox.
|
| Newspapers are OK, but magazines are better, if you want
| "State of the world, processed and digested, after the
| fact, without the outrage of the moment leaking in."
|
| I subscribe to... honestly more than I get around to
| reading fully, but part of it is to simply say, "Yes, I
| value this type of writing and information, please keep
| producing it."
| em500 wrote:
| > where is some boring neutral news?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events
|
| (And to a much lesser extend, https://text.npr.org/)
| mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
| They are, because they're competing for people's attention
| through social media.
|
| And so, Facebook's dark patterns to some extent poison
| everything.
| pcmoney wrote:
| The issue is the knowledge of bad things you cant change and
| wont impact your behavior at all just makes you informed and
| miserable.
|
| Being informed is not a universal good, more is not always
| better. Should have a personal cost/benefit calculation, "is it
| worth it to be this informed?" Etc.
| imgabe wrote:
| You can certainly hear about a lot of things on social media,
| but I don't think reading a bunch of underinformed, overangry
| people fire memes, half-truths, and occasional outright lies
| back and forth constitutes facing anything in any meaningful
| way, nor will it make any difference in the world.
| NalNezumi wrote:
| I think that in the context of social media it is less about
| ignoring the world & big matters but rather that you're getting
| a very biased view of the things that in the end is often
| useless and cause no tangible behavioral change in you.
|
| The "fuck ignorance, face things" can be used to shove
| information down someone's throat that _adds nothing to the
| person 's life_ except maybe misery. Being informed about stuff
| you can do nothing about that won't cause any tangible
| behavioral change (except maybe adding stress and anxiety) is
| not novel for the sake of it.
|
| A rock that can't move, act or communicate that know the truth
| of the world, or Kardashians family dynamics, is no better than
| a rock that don't.
| simonbackx wrote:
| And then you are not even speaking about the time you save!
| Removing those apps from my phone has been a great decision.
| drewcoo wrote:
| Taking a break from anything that demands constant attention does
| that.
|
| - news
|
| - work
|
| - kids
|
| - spouse
|
| - day-trading
|
| - etc.
|
| This is known. Very well known. Reported on many times? How is
| this news?
|
| Is it just news because HN wants to comment on it? Again?
| px43 wrote:
| Dopamine fasting is great. Many cultures across the world have
| been doing it for thousands of years.
| fredgrott wrote:
| I am wondering why they did not break out social media by types.
| As there are social media sites not driven by the ad-eyes metrics
| that seem to be better at more reasonable discussion but not
| always. Examples would be this site itself versus 4chan. Both are
| not ad driven, but 4chan seem to be toxic compared to this one.
| xcambar wrote:
| I quit social media entirely many years ago: it felt like
| quitting smoking, just less difficult but the same level of
| benefits.
|
| I also shifted how I get news: I don't read or watch "event-
| oriented" journalism (aka, reporting) and shifted entirely to
| analysis (through radio and press). The biggest win is that the
| timeframe is different, as analysis requires perspective,
| opposite to reporting which only focuses on the now.
|
| I feel like I have a better, deeper, understanding of the world
| now, and with a slower pace, allowing a quieter perspective
| (which does not prevent from objective worry wrt current events).
| the_only_human wrote:
| This is genius (although I do wonder how you get your war news,
| then. Do you not follow the Russia war at all? Would it change
| if you had relevates there? Would it change if the war came to
| your backyard? Say another 9/11? War reporting is essential,
| but it would break your rule of not following live reporting.
| seizethecheese wrote:
| This is social media.
|
| (Not to detract entirely from your statement with my
| pendantics.)
| xcambar wrote:
| I was expecting this comment, tbh :)
|
| This is true to some extent.
|
| Yet the scale and mechanics of HN are (vastly?) different
| from your typical social media.
|
| Also, brands are mostly absent, except for the YC specific
| posts.
|
| In my opinion, HN relates more to a good ol' forum rather
| than typical social media, as defined nowadays.
| tjr225 wrote:
| Old school forums were still social media, they just hadn't
| been labeled as such yet.
|
| Some of my most toxic moments as a teenager/young adult
| occurred on forums. I had to leave them entirely. Praise
| the lord I left them when I did because some of my old
| friends said some rather stupid stuff on forums and are
| paying for it now.
| the_only_human wrote:
| old school forums were the single greatest thing that
| human kind has ever invented, including all medicine that
| has ever been invented. In fact, we should all be using
| old school forums.
| xcambar wrote:
| FWIW, I'm not objecting HN or forums are not social
| media.
|
| Rather that nowadays, social media have more mechanics
| that are typical: * presence of brands * influencers *
| algorithmic bubble filters * attention hoarding
|
| Of course, forums and HN are social media and can be
| toxic as well.
|
| I may he wrong and I'm happy to read more, but I hope I
| clarified where I draw the line with what (I think) is
| typical and expected of social media, from a
| business/industry perspective.
| maigret wrote:
| I don't think it is because I can't follow people (can I??).
| At least my use of it is only hitting the homepage and the
| occasional search. More similar to a newspaper with better
| comments. I agree that HN is social as in community but
| "social media" has a very tainted definition in my mind that
| mostly involves following a predefined set of people,
| creating all kinds of positive and negative side effects. HN
| belongs more to forums in my mind. I wouldn't consider forums
| or IRC social media, at the same time I understand other
| persons might see it differently.
| ur-whale wrote:
| Does HN count as social media?
| Vosporos wrote:
| Exact same reason I take HN breaks
| jgrahamc wrote:
| Long ago I deleted my Facebook and Reddit, I have an Instagram
| account with just a few close people and barely use it, I
| recently switched to using Twitter in "reply-only mode" (i.e. I
| don't post anything other than a reply to something someone
| posted and, in general, that's work-related only).
| agumonkey wrote:
| Social networks were never social. Human interactions are complex
| and chatting online is just a glimpse, it distorts biological
| needs.
| Kalanos wrote:
| stop calling it social
| SantiagoElf wrote:
| The only thing close to a social media I have is LinkedIn,
| HackerNews and some Discord servers.
|
| Got off FaceBook 2009 ... never had instagram, nor twitter.
|
| I don't see a point in those social medias to be honest.
|
| Pretty happy :)
| [deleted]
| MezzoDelCammin wrote:
| Is HN considered "social media"? Because in many ways (at least
| for me), there's a resemblance - the never disappearing timeline,
| the comments that sometimes show the trenches of the good old
| culture wars...
|
| It's definitely no Facebook. I guess HN (or HN admins, to be
| precise) is doing a better job at limiting the disagreements from
| "Petersburg troll-farm vitriol" to "occasionally sarcastic". But
| the social media effect is definitely there...
| nickstinemates wrote:
| > I guess HN (or HN admins, to be precise) is doing a better
| job at limiting the disagreements
|
| I think users of this site disparage low effort/meme comments
| to the point that people typically stay on topic. Points of
| view are fairly nuanced and it seems effort is taken to
| understand and discuss.
| mitchdoogle wrote:
| If you partake in comments then yes it's social media. If you
| manage to just use it as a curated list of blog posts/ articles
| to read, then not really
| 2sk21 wrote:
| HN mostly reminds me of the Usenet of the late 1980s - which
| was in a way the social media of its time.
| conz wrote:
| > HN mostly reminds me of the Usenet of the late 1980s -
| which was in a way the social media of its time.
|
| In terms of signal-to-noise ratio and the content focus,
| you're right. HN is the closest thing to the 80s Usenet
| community that I've found on the Internet of the current day.
|
| However, Usenet was _never_ social media. You didn 't
| _connect_ with people like you do on social media and
| 'follow' them. On Usenet you joined discussion fora, which
| sometimes included the same people across multiple fora, so
| you would get a sense of the poster and their calibre and
| quality.
| MezzoDelCammin wrote:
| I haven't been on Usenet in the 80's (coming from the other
| side of the Iron Curtain, my own IT history basically starts
| in the 90's, first internet access around 1995-98).
|
| Did Usenet not require any moderation? Or was it simply the
| barrier for entry that made people behave like the access was
| a scarce resource? Or what do You think made the period so
| unique?
| conz wrote:
| > Did Usenet not require any moderation? Or was it simply
| the barrier for entry that made people behave like the
| access was a scarce resource? Or what do You think made the
| period so unique?
|
| Usenet didn't (in general, IIRC) have centralised
| moderation. Usenet had the famous _killfiles_ , which you
| maintained and which elided the posts of people you found
| to be a nuisance.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_file
| wccrawford wrote:
| Despite what so many others are going to say, _yes_ , it's
| social media.
|
| It aggregates great things that others are doing along with
| other posts designed to elicit extreme emotions and feeds them
| to you with an algorithm designed to encourage engagement. (I
| had originally written "maximize", but HN's algorithm does at
| least try to prevent flamewars.)
| bayindirh wrote:
| I don't think HN fits to the "Social Media" of today. It's more
| of a slow churning RSS feed with comments underpinned by a
| strong social contract.
|
| Another difference is, while we disagree, we don't fight bona
| fide flame wars. A more civilized and skilled discussion is
| favored here, and _this is a very good thing (TM)_.
|
| Feeling a lot of completed projects or new things kindle the
| impostor syndrome sometimes, but it's not creating the same
| insecurity of image based social platforms or "free for all"
| comment platforms.
|
| I've first deleted reddit back then, then removed Instagram
| from my phone. I can say that I'm much happier. However, HN is
| not creating same type of tension for me. I learn a lot of
| things, for a start.
| MezzoDelCammin wrote:
| I agree about the discussion being (mostly) civilized. But
| I'm really asking myself to what degree is this because of
| the admins dedication to their job and to what degree is this
| by design / users selection.
|
| I'm in a few FB groups that are not too far of the mark
| either when it comes to the debate rules, but moderating one
| of them, I see that keeping things civilized is not really
| something one can automatize or put into an algorithm / ML
| magic.
|
| Hence the parallel with HN. We tend to imagine social
| networks as apps / startups, but I don't think that's a full
| picture.
| bayindirh wrote:
| Of course, a social media is not limited to the "brands"
| everyone uses, but I wanted to separate them because most
| people think of these "brands" when anyone says social
| media.
|
| The quality of a place goes hand in hand with community and
| dedication of moderation. HN's moderation is mostly
| invisible and there's a well evolved structure. This is
| _only half_ of the picture. We as the community support
| this structure, because we like it too.
|
| Humans are humans and language has many nuances to be
| automatically moderated by AI/ML. The only useful help we
| can get from AI/ML can be flagging some stuff for taking a
| look. Last decision shall be done by humans at the end of
| the day.
|
| However, at the end of the day, quality of a community is
| part moderation and part community. Everything else is a
| byproduct of that.
| charstacker wrote:
| Consider the following scenario: You're pleased and content one
| minute, thinking your life is going fine the next. You have a few
| minutes to kill, so you log onto Facebook and begin scrolling...
|
| First, you notice a friend's post stating that she has accepted
| her ideal job.
|
| Then you read a coworker's too political rant.
|
| You continue browsing and see a video of your neighbour enjoying
| a fantastic tropical vacation.
|
| And now your cousin has uploaded a before and after photo that
| makes you want to hide your thighs for the rest of your life.
|
| The next thing you know, you're second-guessing your profession,
| irritated by politics, wondering why you can't afford a trip, and
| researching your next diet.
|
| Social media is nothing but roller coaster,
| megaman821 wrote:
| This comment and the replies to it make me think there is a lot
| of undiagnosed depression. I would feel happy for the good
| fortune of my friends and family and mute the politics off my
| timeline. If my friends or family did something that I wanted
| for myself, I would feel inspiration, not envy.
| scotty79 wrote:
| I'm a bit immune to a lot of this because I don't like travel,
| jobs of any kind, having family, excessive fitness (the one you
| need to excercise to get) and facebook does fairly good job of
| exposing me only to rants that confirm my biases. But this also
| makes Facebook way less engaging for me because it does invoke
| barely any feelings in me.
| sleepdreamy wrote:
| You don't like jobs of any kind? Hopefully you have an
| inheritance because when your parents die you're in for a
| rude awakening.
| raxxorraxor wrote:
| Morbid curiosity sometimes makes me seek out death and decay on
| the internet. Could this be the secret to my happiness?
|
| But seriously, you can self-reflect about you constantly
| comparing yourself to to others and and some point you really
| should ask yourself what you want yourself. Even if you assume
| that the self-presentation of people on the net is honest,
| winning the social media competition is an illusion.
| lordnacho wrote:
| Needs more explanation though.
|
| You meet your friend, he tells you about his new job, you
| congratulate him.
|
| You meet your coworker and chat to him about politics, and it's
| kinda interesting.
|
| You meet your neighbor after their trip and they show you the
| photos and you're fascinated.
|
| You meet your cousin in real life, you see he looks better, you
| compliment him. You don't feel like you need to do something
| yourself.
|
| What is it about doing it online that hurts?
| mrmrblister1 wrote:
| You're meeting a friend in an hour, so you enjoy your moment
| for a while before you see them You spend time with a friend
| and are happy for them. After you bump into your coworker and
| chat for 20 mins about politics. Interesting, but you
| disagree. But you have lunch with a neighbour soon, so off
| you trot to go see their holiday pictures. All looks lovely
| yada yada yada - 1 even after the other, can being digested
| with context. Time is taken to enjoy or question certain
| things.
|
| You are enjoying your moment for 1 minute. You open your
| phone and scroll facebook. You see all of that within 1
| viewport. You haven't enjoyed your moment for long - you
| haven't enjoyed other's success cos you're still kinda angry
| about the political post etc.
|
| It's the speed at which this all happens.
| slingnow wrote:
| The in person conversations are much less likely to be
| embellished and polished to look like more than they are. The
| in person conversations are also a form of two-way
| communication, rather than something more like a person
| standing on the street corner shouting into a megaphone to
| catch the attention of anyone nearby. The human interaction
| makes a world of difference.
| Ozzie_osman wrote:
| Also the in person conversations are probably spread out.
| They'd typically not all happen within the span of a couple
| of minutes, not giving you time to process and work through
| each emotion.
|
| Unless you're at a party or something, and a lot of people
| do find parties overwhelming.
| mwigdahl wrote:
| After reading The Last Psychiatrist's _Sadly, Porn_ I'd say
| that it's the performative nature of social media. In the
| social media environment you're reading projected images --
| performances designed to appeal to the infinite audience of
| the platform. When you interact with someone in real life,
| there's an authentic communication between two people. You at
| least have the chance to really connect, ask questions, and
| have a real human conversation.
| _fat_santa wrote:
| IMO It's all about your mindset. You can look at a travel
| photo that your friend took and depending on your mindset,
| you're either going to feel jealous and wishing you could do
| the same or feel happy for that person.
| dougmwne wrote:
| There is a huge difference. When we interact in person, we
| are building a mutual relationship. Your friend may tell you
| about their new job, but may chose to adjust the tone and
| information to be more sensitive to the layoff you just
| experienced. Online, you get unidirectional bragging that
| needs to be as engaging and exaggerated as possible to get
| promoted by the algorithm. Their new job becomes the pinnacle
| of a lifetime of stellar achievement. If people interacted in
| person like they do on social media, the rest of us would
| avoid them like a contagious rash.
| gilbetron wrote:
| You only see the good online for the most part. In person,
| when they tell you about the amazing vacation, you hear about
| how their kid cried all the way on the 6 hour flight and how
| the wife got sick while over there. When they tell you about
| the new job, they also tell you how even though it is going
| great, they don't know about their new coworker that is being
| really annoying.
|
| Online is 99% the good stuff (or the controversial stuff), in
| real life it is more nuanced and complex. I saw a bunch of
| relatives recently that I hadn't seen in about 4 years. I
| have 2 cousins that have kids that I see in pictures playing
| together all the time, and it makes me happy, but a bit
| guilty because my only child was born at a time where there
| are no cousins around his age. Turns out there's a bunch of
| stress in the relationship because the two groups of kids
| fight more than play.
|
| Another cousin stayed in the corner, because he's a major
| MAGA guy and didn't want to interact with the more liberal
| rest of the group, obvious from his Facebook posts. Except
| that isn't the case at all, he's actually still divorcing his
| wife I thought he divorced 4 years ago, fighting a custody
| battle, and dealing with an injury where his company doesn't
| believe is worth him being off work for. Again, nuance and
| complexity adds humanity.
| ivanhoe wrote:
| It affects you a lot less once you realize that nothing of that
| pictures a real, complete story of those peoples' lives, but
| just a cherry picked show-off moments and emotional venting...
| id wrote:
| If other people find their ideal job, have a tropical vacation,
| etc. it makes me feel... good? Those are good things in
| general, although the tropical vacation might make me also feel
| concerned about the climate.
|
| The problems I have with social media are that
|
| - it steals a lot of time
|
| - a lot of content gets me by evoking negative emotion
|
| - it's taxing to get exposed to so many different ideas, clips,
| heated discussions, etc. Makes we wanna throw away my phone and
| live in the woods
| weatherlite wrote:
| Thought experiment - let's say you are the poorest person in
| your neighborhood. Would talking to your neighbors daily
| about their salaries really make you feel better? I mean them
| having money, even if more than you is a good thing according
| to you what you said.
| maximus-decimus wrote:
| Yes because it lets me know I can probably make more money?
| krnlpnc wrote:
| And helps build a personal network that could possibly
| help
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| Just FYI, Not everyone feels jealousy like you're
| suggesting here.
|
| I know I never have. I never understood why people get so
| worked up about that sort of thing honestly. It never
| bothered me if someone wanted to date my ex, or if they had
| some sudden windfall, or are doing well.
|
| But I see some people feel this intensely! I'm sympathetic,
| IMO, they don't choose to feel that way. But it's funny to
| me, if I were to walk down the street and see two people,
| and give each of them $5, it would be all smiles. But for a
| certain percentage of people, if I gave the person on the
| left $5 and the person on the right $100, they'd feel worse
| than when they had no money!
| id wrote:
| This is interesting, I'm the same as you. I can't really
| explain why, and I don't think that I have higher morals
| or something like that.
|
| If I played the ultimatum game, and the other person
| offered me 0$ out of $100, I would let them have their
| $100.
| weatherlite wrote:
| Never said everyone, but it's definitely prevalent. How
| prevalent could be an interesting discussion (I don't
| know the answer) but I have many reasons to believe most
| people do experience it from time to time based on my
| personal experience and how I interpret behavior of
| others. Also there is a biological/evolutionary incentive
| to be a bit envious and jealous which affirms my
| conviction that it is prevalent.
|
| Moreover - how do you know you won't experience it in the
| future? Have you ever been unemployed for 4 years? Maybe
| being unemployed for 4 years would make you envious of a
| friend who just got a job in Google. Have you ever been
| with a woman you loved dearly only to find out she
| cheated on you and left you for another man? Maybe going
| through this traumatic experience would make you envious.
|
| I'm just saying it's easy to be content when things are
| going well, indeed I don't feel much envy - but I'm super
| aware I am quite lucky. If things stop going well who
| knows what negative emotions would pop up - it won't be a
| picnic thats for sure.
| id wrote:
| Yes, because if they made less money, it wouldn't help me
| at all (it could even hurt me because then they have
| nothing to share). In difficult personal situations, it has
| often helped me to know that at least others have it
| better.
| weatherlite wrote:
| > Yes, because if they made less money, it wouldn't help
| me at all
|
| Let's continue this thought experiment - say with a flick
| of my fingers I made everyone in the world have half the
| money they have now - but I leave you with the same
| amount. So you are basically 2X richer than you were
| before. You say this doesn't help you at all - I think it
| actually increases your chances of finding housing,
| finding a mate, getting healthcare etc. Your material
| well being is established relative to others. If we
| expand the neighborhood example further - to city or
| country, it is obvious why the amount others have
| relative to you matters. In a world of infinite resources
| envy doesn't make sense, but in our world resources are
| limited.
| id wrote:
| Yeah, but you changed the thought experiment from
| neighbourhood to "everyone in the world". This obviously
| would have a much, much bigger impact on my relative
| wealth.
|
| And even then, the economy is not a zero-sum game. It is
| possible to become wealthier without making others
| poorer. If I get healthcare, it doesn't mean that someone
| else needs to be denied healthcare.
| weatherlite wrote:
| > And even then, the economy is not a zero-sum game
|
| I agree to an extent. If say GDP increases it usually
| means the economy does better which means you will get
| better services (healthcare, housing, personal safety for
| you and your children etc) so you have an interest in
| others doing well. However you also have an interest in
| not doing worse than most since as I said the amount of
| resources you can get is relative to others (resources is
| anything from housing to healthcare to your ability to
| find a mate). I think this principal hasn't changed much
| since us being cavemen and neither have feelings of envy.
|
| And again, there is not much evolutionary since in having
| no feelings of envy at all since it's a big motivator for
| people. Many times you feel envy or anxiety and you do
| something about it to improve your lot. Its there for a
| reason (sure, often it goes out of hand which is
| unfortunate). Consider yourself fortunate for not feeling
| much envy (or at all)!
| DSingularity wrote:
| if only things were so ideal that we all could all
| process things with such detachment.
| cortesoft wrote:
| Sure, but there is only one person in the neighborhood that
| is the poorest. Most people are going to be around the
| average, so they aren't going to have the experience of
| everyone being richer than them.
| bmj wrote:
| There's an essay[0] in the latest edition of _The New
| Atlantis_ titled "Reading Ourselves to Death," and the
| premise is that our brains are really not currently wired in
| such a way to take in so much information via text.
|
| I think you are correct -- that we should feel good about a
| friend's vacation, or ideal job. However, in real life, we
| are exposed to those things in a much more limited way: you
| meet a friend for coffee and they show you photos of their
| trip, or a good friend calls to share their joy at the new
| job. Yes, absolutely, emotionally healthy humans should feel
| good about that. However, social media skews the equation,
| heavily. First, EVERYONE on your feed is posting how great
| their lives are, and, second, how many of those great lives
| are carefully curated for public consumption? When you are
| doing life with other people, yes, you share the joys and
| moments for celebration, but you likely also share the hard
| times that don't make it to social media. It really helps to
| know other people experience the same sorts of disappointment
| and pain that you do.
|
| [0] https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/reading-
| ourselve... (might be paywalled)
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| > Makes we wanna throw away my phone and live in the woods
|
| What I tried to aim for in Digital Vegan 1[] is to get people
| thinking about tech as a _healthy balance_.
|
| It is actually rather common to have these extreme swings,
| all or nothing, total technological connection or living off
| berries in a woodland shack. It's called splitting in
| psychology, and the conditions around technology are geared
| to maximise it.
|
| That's partly because it is so aggressive, in it's marketing,
| and peer pressure, in it's network effects created by
| deliberate lack of interoperability, by the way it is forced
| upon people. Young people are constantly bullied into over-
| connection by the idea they will be "left behind", that they
| will "miss out", and that a total cybernetic society of
| "ubiquitous" technology is "inevitable". All a total crock of
| shit of course. Nobody wants that except a few silicon valley
| pushers. But if you are immersed in that toxic narrative,
| which comes through the medium itself, it's hard for anyone
| to exercise rational choice, self-control and use technology
| in a moderate, healthy way.
|
| So to me it makes sense to define "hacker" as someone who has
| mastery over technology. A master is not dominated by their
| own creations and desires. Part of mastery is choosing
| exactly how much, and what type of technology to use, and not
| allowing other people to foist that upon you. Real hackers
| make _technological choices_ that may marginalise them,
| instead of just following the crowd.
|
| [1] https://digitalvegan.net
| funcDropShadow wrote:
| > So to me it makes sense to define "hacker" as someone who
| has mastery over technology. A master is not dominated by
| their own creations and desires. Part of mastery is
| choosing exactly how much, and what type of technology to
| use, and not allowing other people to foist that upon you.
|
| I like that definition and they way you argue. But don't
| forget that i.e. Meta and all other social networks are
| paying hords of hackers to screw with your emotions. I.e.
| you have a really capable opponent.
|
| Why do I claim that social networks and other pay hackers
| to screw with our emotions? Actually I am convinced they
| don't care at all about the emotions of their users. They
| only care about their attention. Since, that is what is
| being sold to advertisers. Therefore, they do anything to
| prohibit users from staying in control of their social
| media use. That doesn't mean that it is impossible to use
| social media responsibly and healthy, but it is not easy.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| I think you make a really good point. One should in no
| way underestimate the strength of an adversary. Nor the
| extent of ones own vulnerabilities. These guys have
| almost unlimited powers of money to employ PhDs in
| psychology, UX "attention engineering", disinformation,
| and other kinds of manipulation. Therefore "self-hacking"
| is kind of where it's at for this stage of the battle.
|
| The plus side is that:
|
| 1) We know what they're up to now, and that is half the
| struggle.
|
| 2) We know that they _are indeed_ adversaries (enemies of
| democracy and mental health), and that is also important.
|
| Past that point, even a small number of us who are well
| educated, resourceful, and committed to clear
| communication, can have a significant impact. At the very
| least we can defend ourselves and help others to build
| intellectual self-defence.
|
| And we are changing things. Even two years ago this
| discussion and the comments in this thread would have
| been unthinkable. We would have been shouted down by
| social media zealots and labelled "weirdos" (which I
| think is the very essence of hacker spirit - proud to be
| on the "weird" side of the fight right now).
| ac2022 wrote:
| I think this depends on persons internal happiness. Happy
| people feel happier and sad people get sadder. This is based
| on my own experiences.
|
| In my 20s, I was as happy as one can be. I posted a lot on
| social media and enjoyed posts of my friends. Loved food
| posts cause that gave me new resturants to try out.
|
| Vacation pictures, I couldn't afford a nice vacation but
| vacationed via those pictures. Asked friends to post more
| pictures.
|
| Friend got a job, it meant time for a party.
|
| Now I am not as happy as I used to be. Now I do get annoyed
| with food and vacation photos. Feel jealous when friends are
| promoted. I rarely go on social media but when I do I
| immediately feel bad about myself.
|
| Maybe I am just getting old.
|
| Oh and yes when I was on Facebook, no one posted about
| politics. In fact, I remember reading my first few political
| posts of my friends and thinking whats wrong with them.
| sharadov wrote:
| You said it - your internal state is reflected when you
| look at social media.
| lrvick wrote:
| Having actually thrown away my phone, and lived in the woods,
| I can say I recommend the former as a fantastic mental health
| improvement. Living in the woods, not so much.
| orzig wrote:
| My very favorite part of HN is when someone is like "I'm
| actually an experienced XYZer, here's the inside scoop"
| usually for a niche industry, now for niche lifestyles.
|
| Thanks for the data point! Can you say more about the
| experience? Where did you end up?
| guerrilla wrote:
| What's wrong with the woods?
| RajT88 wrote:
| Mosquitos. Poison ivy.
|
| If he is growing his own food - a variety of animals will
| be eating the veggies. Rabbits, cabbage moths (evil
| bastards), groundhogs, raccoons...
| guerrilla wrote:
| Cabbage moths are the worst... The other things seem
| pretty avoidable though...
| RajT88 wrote:
| I guess the other animals there's strategies to deal with
| them.
|
| Poison ivy sneaks up on you. Young plants can be hard to
| see, and if you're like me, you won't know you've been
| exposed for a few days... And then it's ALL OVER.
| xkbarkar wrote:
| My humble opinion. I am happy and content, log on to facebook
| and see posting like this.
|
| Something something.... Dastart Putin. Dead people because
| you didnt wear a mask. Dead children ( Syria a few years ago,
| Ukraine now ). Something antivaxxer. Something texas abortion
| law. Someone parked like an idiot. My childrens amazing
| <insert brag here>. Some snyde humour picture, usually
| something about a republican. Posted by a non US person to a
| feed full of europeans.
|
| And it goes on. Facebook makes me want to vomit sometimes.
| [deleted]
| 2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote:
| > _If other people find their ideal job, have a tropical
| vacation, etc. it makes me feel... good?_
|
| This sounds like a misunderstanding. Being happy for friends
| (real friends not "500 Facebook friends" friends) is not
| mutually exclusive with these news invoking bad feelings
| inside you (shame, feeling of inadequacy etc.)
| id wrote:
| It's not a misunderstanding. I'm also happy for complete
| strangers. Jeff Bezos is enjoying his Amazon money? Great
| for him.
|
| Also, I can't relate to feelings of shame or inadequacy
| because someone has something good happening to them. If
| anything, it motivates me to achieve the same.
| antiframe wrote:
| > Also, I can't relate to feelings of shame or inadequacy
| because someone has something good happening to them. If
| anything, it motivates me to achieve the same.
|
| Those two aspects feel like they are opposing one
| another. On the one hand, you claim to never feel
| inadequate, yet when you see others achieving something
| you haven't yet achieved you claim it motivates you to
| achieve the same. How is it that you feel adequately
| achieved in some area yet another's greater success
| motivates you to achieve more? Most people I know would
| label that feeling "inadequacy". They don't yet have
| something they want and strive to get it.
|
| I think the way you label these emotions is unique
| relative to everyone else I've meet. You're the first
| person who can't relate to feeling inadequacy yet at the
| same time feels motivated by things others have achieved.
| cortesoft wrote:
| > On the one hand, you claim to never feel inadequate,
| yet when you see others achieving something you haven't
| yet achieved you claim it motivates you to achieve the
| same
|
| That doesn't mean you are feeling inadequate. Being
| inspired doesn't mean you feel bad about yourself.
|
| For example, whenever I watch really good basketball, it
| makes me want to go out and play myself. When I see
| someone playing a fun video game, it makes me want to
| play. I don't feel inadequate, I just want to participate
| in the fun and challenge.
| antiframe wrote:
| Maybe I'm using the word incorrectly then. There are two
| ways I can imagine feeling inadequate when seeing, for
| example, a post of someone on a Hawaiian vacation:
|
| 1. I have inadequate resources. I can never afford such
| fancy lodgings, etc. This is a pretty negative emotion.
|
| 2. I feel my vacationing has been inadequate. I should
| spend more time off with my loved ones. Where can I go in
| my time and dollar budget to better enjoy life?
|
| I would call both feels one of being 'inadequate'. If I
| felt adequate, I would feel like I don't need any (more)
| vacations and not inspired to make any changes in my
| life.
|
| At least that was my reading of id's comment that "If
| anything, it motivates me to achieve the same." Without
| _any_ feeling of inadequacy, where does the motivation
| come from? Maybe I process these feelings differently
| than others, but for me without something to trigger the
| desire, I won 't be motivated, and that trigger is in
| some sense something inadequate I want to improve about
| myself or my life.
| cortesoft wrote:
| What about the 3rd option:
|
| 3. I have adequate resources, but hadn't really thought
| about going on a Hawaiian vacation. Maybe I should start
| planning a tropical trip, that looks really fun!
|
| Or even if you don't currently have the money saved up,
| maybe now that you see how fun a trip like that could be
| you want to start saving for it.
|
| Basically, this is how I feel about my life and seeing
| people having fun doing stuff:
|
| I like my life. I have a ton of things I enjoy doing, and
| I spend my free time cycling through those things I like.
| However, there are so many fun things to do I can't
| possibly do them all at once. I have a huge backlog of
| fun things to do, and I enjoy thinking about one day
| doing all of them. I don't feel bad that I can't do them
| all at once, because I am busy enjoying the fun things I
| am currently doing.
|
| At the same time, there are many fun things to do that I
| haven't even thought about! I encounter new fun things
| all the time online, and when I see someone doing
| something that looks fun I think, "Wow, that looks cool!
| I might enjoy that someday!" So I will put it on my list
| of things to do, and maybe if it intrigues me enough I
| will try to move it up on the list. It might take some
| work to learn how to do the thing or to gain the
| resources to do it, but that doesn't bother me, because I
| like working to learn new things or save up resources.
| Working hard is one of the things I like doing!
|
| Sometimes, I see someone having fun doing something and I
| have no interest in doing it myself, but I still really
| enjoy seeing someone else having fun doing it. I love
| seeing passionate people pursuing their hobbies. I find
| it fun to peer into subcultures that form around strange
| activities that I have no personal interest in, but love
| that there exists people who are super into it. The
| variety interests me.
| antiframe wrote:
| That third option I lump into my second option. Whenever
| I feel like "I should X" it's because I have inadequate X
| in my life. Whatever X may be. In my estimation,
| inadequacy is the driver of desire and not necessarily a
| negative, unhealthy emotion. But without it, I wouldn't
| have any desires. I have desires and I have feelings of
| healthy (positive) inadequacies.
|
| I might be using the word differently than everyone else,
| but that's why I try to explain what I mean. If for you
| and id inadequacy can only be a negative feeling then I
| agree social media need not evoke that emotion, but for
| many people it often does. But I don't think inadequacy
| is necessarily a negative feeling. I can be a positive
| driving force.
| 2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote:
| I'm not doubting your ability to do that and I'm not
| saying that negative feelings come inherently with these
| kind of news. But surely you can see that these reactions
| can be pretty common for many people especially if they
| aren't happy with their own situations, and that those
| people can still feel happy when good things happen to
| others.
|
| What I'm claiming is that a negative reaction (in terms
| of comparison) in this way and feeling happy for others
| are independent of each other.
| colpabar wrote:
| But you can see how some people may not think this way
| when they go online and see that seemingly everyone
| they've ever met is doing things that they can't afford
| or aren't able to do? If you can't relate, fine I guess,
| but what's the point of just saying "these problems don't
| affect me"?
| Teever wrote:
| To be clear here, what you're saying is that the feelings
| that others are describing are totally alien to you?
|
| Like you can't understand that humans act this way in
| these situations?
|
| I don't believe you.
| id wrote:
| I can understand, but I can't relate. I simply never had
| these feelings of envy, or it was too long ago to
| remember.
| jjulius wrote:
| Everybody sees/processes things differently.
| moffkalast wrote:
| > these news invoking bad feelings inside you (shame,
| feeling of inadequacy etc.)
|
| Then perhaps it might make more sense to work on that
| instead, wouldn't it? I mean if we as a species became a
| little less jealous of each other, an utopia would be
| practically at hand.
| eafkuor wrote:
| > If other people find their ideal job, have a tropical
| vacation, etc. it makes me feel... good? Those are good
| things in general, although the tropical vacation might make
| me also feel concerned about the climate.
|
| If this would be your genuine reaction, congratulations. You
| belong to the 0.001% of the population that would feel this
| way.
| ycombinete wrote:
| I once heard someone say, "nothing in life hurts more than
| the success of a friend"
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| That is a truly warped mindset.
| weatherlite wrote:
| Most of us commenting here live in competitive,
| capitalistic societies and a lot of our sense of self
| worth and self esteem comes from comparison (mostly
| comparing to our friends, colleagues and siblings) - and
| the metrics as we all know are stuff like career/money
| and other social status metrics. Feelings of envy are
| completely involuntary btw so there is no need to pretend
| like feeling them or not feeling is some kind of moral
| virtue - you don't control what you feel or don't feel.
| It sounds reasonable to me to speculate that these
| feelings have an evolutionary basis - e.g when you were
| envious of your neighbor's cave you felt crappy and
| worked harder on your own cave, thus increasing your own
| survival rate and the prevalence of envious genes. We are
| a biological creature designed for survival and envy
| seems very important to me in achieving it.
|
| Does that mean we have to be slaves to our genes? I hope
| not. People like Sam Harris and others offer all kinds of
| methods to detach and "win" over our biology.
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| I sincerely do not believe that this behavior is genetic.
| As you've said, many of us live in competitive capitalist
| societies, we are conditioned into a socipathic mindset
| by advertising, and educated to reduce the people in our
| lives to numbers on a spreadsheet. This is not how humans
| are meant to function, we have been conditioned and
| trained to think this way.
| weatherlite wrote:
| It is exacerbated by our current system for sure but I
| think the core of it is still there, genetically. I say
| that because I remember my old dog would act up if I
| petted the cat sometimes. Also very young toddlers show
| envious behaviour when a sibling is born.
| throwawaycuriou wrote:
| While feelings may be involuntary, this does not mean we
| are beholden to them. Maybe envy is what happens when a
| consciousness is discontent and allows these feelings to
| overpower.
| weatherlite wrote:
| envy: "a feeling of discontented or resentful longing
| aroused by someone else's possessions, qualities, or
| luck"
|
| So it's just a feeling. What you do with it (actions) is
| up to you, most people don't act upon those feelings in
| any noticeable way.
|
| But if we are being honest with ourselves constant
| feelings of envy often do lead to a deteriorating
| relationship (usually in the form of the person feeling
| envious choosing to distance himself from whomever he's
| feeling envious of), simply for the fact that feeling
| envious feels like crap - and when you are feeling
| envious of a person you actually care about it feels
| double crap (you feel envious and guilty at the same
| time).
| bell-cot wrote:
| _If_ true, it seems easy to optimize for your own
| happiness (or lack of hurt) by replacing more-likely-to-
| succeed friends with less-likely-to-succeed ones...
| cortesoft wrote:
| Are you sure it is that rare? I find it shocking that most
| people don't feel joy when the people they care about are
| happy. My assumption is that depressed people would feel
| worse, but people who are generally happy themselves would
| feel happy when someone else is feeling happy.
|
| Where do you get your assumption that only 1 in 100,000
| people are happy for others? The fact that there are at
| least two people who feel this way commenting in this chat
| seems to imply your numbers are off. I don't think the
| percentage of depressed people in the world is that high.
| tappio wrote:
| I feel content with my life and I'm genuinely happy when my
| friends accomplish something. I can't remember when I was
| seriously envious last time. Sometimes, there may be a
| moment when I feel slight envy, but then I realize that
| they decided to put effort into that, and I put my effort
| into something else. Time is limited. Everyone has
| problems; ups and downs.
|
| I've mostly quit social media because the majority of
| active people are not interesting, it's full of ad-garbage
| and heated up debates about dis-interesting topics.
|
| I guess I'm also in the 0.0001%. Though, I do think it's
| much higher than that. The dissatisfied people are just the
| most vocal.
| ss2003 wrote:
| Hacker News is social media
| sodality2 wrote:
| It's a news forum. Only loosely does it fit in "social
| media". Would you call reddit.com/r/technews or alike a
| "social media"?
| madeofpalk wrote:
| ...yes. Reddit is a social media website. HN is a small,
| niche social media website.
| sodality2 wrote:
| Okay, I suppose going by the strict definition of "social
| media", it does. The study cites "Facebook, Instagram,
| Twitter, and TikTok" as examples, however.
|
| Do you believe there is a fundamental difference between
| these sites, and something like HN (despite both being
| social media)? I feel like there is. I know this might
| come off as "I use the superior, intellectual site" or
| something like that (even though I use the other sites
| occasionally). But reading tech-related news and comments
| about it feels very different than scrolling through
| funny videos on TikTok.
|
| I don't mean to say HN is any better in terms of mental
| health than either of the others - I spend more time on
| it than I really should. But I never leave it feeling
| depressed or jealous like I do on more common social
| media: I always feel like I learned _something_ rather
| than watching a meme I 'll forget in 30 seconds.
| sorry_outta_gas wrote:
| yes
| tappio wrote:
| I agree. I actually pointed out in another comment that
| the term social media does not make any sense. Everyone
| has a different definition of social media. We can't
| really generalize findings on all platforms. The studies
| focusing on social media are often missing that it does
| not really make any sense to use that word. Are Twitter
| and Facebook the same? Can we generalize findings on one
| to another? No we can't. Talking about "social media"
| this way does not make much sense. It also hides out the
| fact that in the end everything is about the internet and
| digital content, together forming the new mass medium
| which is actually the relevant unifying factor. I'm glad
| you picked that up!
| rmbyrro wrote:
| Come on folks, calling _social_ something as _nerdy_ as
| HN is hell of a stretch...
| mitchdoogle wrote:
| Nerds are some of the most social people - they love
| talking to other nerds
| sleepdreamy wrote:
| Agreed. Majority of people are jealous creatures. It's
| embedded into American individualism/Capitalism.
|
| It's an end sum game of who can acquire more
| money/resources if we break away all the bullshit.
|
| I don't share my wins because the majority of people are
| jealous creatures
| laputan_machine wrote:
| If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a healthy
| life you don't feel great for them? I don't believe that
| puts me in the minority of people, not a chance.
| bennyp101 wrote:
| An actual friend then sure, but most people I know have
| like 500+ "friends" so I think people are less likely to
| have that reaction to everyone in the timeline.
| laputan_machine wrote:
| Oh I see yeah we're couched in the language of FB. I
| meant real friends, I noped out of most social media (ex.
| HN) in 2017. I don't miss it!
| bennyp101 wrote:
| Same (apart from a fake FB profile so I know what's
| happening in the local village groups).
|
| I never really had a problem with FB, just the constant
| cringy posts made me leave!
|
| But dumping Twitter a couple of years ago was the best
| thing I ever did - it was just making me angry every time
| I started browsing it!
| weatherlite wrote:
| A lot of this depends on how one's life is going. It is
| easy and natural to be genuinely happy for others when
| you are satisfied with your own life. But if I became
| unemployed and my friend got into Google then
| yeah...happiness level will be limited. There is a sound
| evolutionary explanation on why that is so.
| id wrote:
| This sure plays a big role, I agree. Maybe I would feel
| some envy in that example, but I would also not let it
| consume me, and still feel happy for my friend at the
| same time.
| mojzu wrote:
| Personally I'm happy when good things are happening for
| family, friends and other people, but depending on my
| mood it can also trigger feelings of FOMO/anxiety (why
| isn't that happening for me, what am I missing, etc.). My
| guess is depending on the person and their current state
| that falling into a pattern of focussing on the latter
| rather then the former is easier when using social media.
| Which can then be a bit of a vicious cycle because
| cutting yourself off from social media may also mean you
| miss events that you could have participated in
| conjectures wrote:
| Yeah, tbh 'friends' are people for whom, when good stuff
| happens to them I feel happy about that.
| luxuryballs wrote:
| Yeah I'm with you, I think the response itself might be
| an indicator of a certain personality type or if negative
| then a clue of unhealthy thinking habits.
| tdudzik wrote:
| I think you can feel great for them and bad for yourself
| at the same time
| emteycz wrote:
| But why would I? It's not like they took something from
| me. I am the lord of my destiny.
|
| And how is it in any way different from the same people
| telling me this stuff at a pub? I don't think social
| media has anything to do with this.
| alickz wrote:
| >But why would I? It's not like they took something from
| me. I am the lord of my destiny.
|
| Envy. You can be genuinely happy for them, but then be
| sad that your life isn't going as well. I think this
| compounded by the idea that a lot of people don't feel
| like the lords of their destiny, more leaves in a river
| unable to fight the currents.
|
| Which of course adds to the stress of "Why can't I be
| better and more like [friend]?". Which may or may not
| lead to productive self-reflection (more likely not in my
| experience)
|
| >And how is it in any way different from the same people
| telling me this stuff at a pub? I don't think social
| media has anything to do with this.
|
| Scale, I would imagine. If it was one or two friends I
| think it's easier to rationalise, but when you see
| friends-of-friends and celebrities "living their best
| life", every day, while you struggle to keep your head
| above water, it takes a toll.
| k_sze wrote:
| Maybe you're lucky to not be plagued by inferiority
| complex and/or impostor syndrome.
| emteycz wrote:
| Perhaps, but then why blame social media and not these
| disorders?
| k_sze wrote:
| I believe the argument would be that social media
| exacerbates the problem.
| emteycz wrote:
| But does it exacerbate the problem more than other ways
| of social interaction?
|
| As opposed to a real life social interaction, I can
| simply hit Unfollow on Facebook (so we stay Friends but I
| don't see your posts unless I look for them)...
| k_sze wrote:
| Maybe social media gives you a much more concentrated
| feed of things that can trigger your inferiority complex,
| compared to normal, real-life social interactions?
|
| And _if_ you have to resort to unfollowing, you're
| basically agreeing that it's a problem.
| emteycz wrote:
| I don't see how that proves anything specific to social
| media, I'm "unfollowing" people IRL all the time, it's
| not like I want to hear everything someone has to say,
| especially not if it makes me sad.
| k_sze wrote:
| > especially not if it makes me sad.
|
| Now I wonder whether you're pulling my leg.
| emteycz wrote:
| I just can't see the reason why this is about social
| media, and not about personal relations in general.
| Someone makes me sad IRL - I don't listen to them.
| Someone makes me sad on social media - well I don't
| listen to them. Where's the difference?
|
| I can understand the scale argument, but I can't see why
| it's a problem after I've unfollowed the problematic
| accounts.
|
| At one point in my life, I unfollowed literally every FB
| friend I had - because I wanted to follow my groups but
| my friends' posts were too political and this kind of
| talk had a bad effect on me. I can't see why people just
| don't do that when social media makes them sad.
| dwringer wrote:
| I don't know how much of this is reality, but to me the
| argument is as follows:
|
| Let's say seeing a certain type of post makes someone
| sad, and that this causes that person's mind to wander,
| slowing or stopping their feed-scrolling for a moment now
| and then when they see such content. This means they're
| now stopped on the feed at a potentially vulnerable
| moment. There is now a monetary incentive for the feed
| curation algorithm to continue doling out the kind of
| posts that make the user sad, as well as placing targeted
| advertisements right with them - ideally ones that
| exploit the negative emotion in some way.
|
| I realize not everyone reacts the same way. Maybe they
| speed up their scrolling instead. The kinds of behavior
| that social media feed curation algorithms track and act
| upon is opaque, and I think that lack of transparency and
| accountability can easily have unfortunate consequences.
| coldtea wrote:
| Social status and the satisfaction (or lack thereof)
| derived from it are relative. This has been studied and
| hammered on again and again, not to mention the entirety
| of human history (and tons of lucrative rackets) attest
| to it.
|
| And being "the lord of your destiny" is already not
| applicable to most people, except in an abstract,
| meaningless sense that a person can always decide for
| themselves. That doesn't mean they can wish reality away.
| (E.g. "Yeah, I have $200K in student debt, no job
| prospects after looking for 10 months, and my spouse got
| sick, but I can do whatever I decide").
| emteycz wrote:
| If these people think they're the only ones with problems
| and other people's lives are problem-free, well that's
| the issue. Not even the most accomplished person has a
| smooth ride.
| coldtea wrote:
| That's kind of the whole point: social media presents you
| with a highlight of the smooth ride scenarios in people's
| lives (and even those, made to appear even fancier with
| all kinds of tricks and cutting out of "behind the
| scenes" context).
|
| And rationally being aware of this doesn't help either:
| you still get the raw first experience at an emotional
| level.
| chenxi9649 wrote:
| I don't think you're in the minority either. We
| experience joy from the joy of those around us.
|
| I think the disagreement here mostly stems from a
| different definition of "friend". For most ppl, the
| friends they see on their FB/IG feed aren't actually
| "friends"... but more like acquaintances. Often times
| they're people that you've only met a few times and
| haven't seen in many years.
|
| Though, even with close friends, sometimes one can't help
| but compare. And since social media only highlight the
| highlights, you'll naturally feel bad when comparisons
| happen.
|
| Seems that with apps like BeReal/Locket taking off in the
| GenZ market this is starting to shift a little.
| id wrote:
| But even when it comes to acquaintances, when I hear
| about their great new job or vacation, I don't feel
| envious or bad. I compare myself to other people, yes,
| and of course I'd like to have some of the things I see,
| but not to the point that I would feel bad. Does every
| story about someone being successful make you feel bad? I
| doubt it, as that is not my personal experience _at all_.
| clausewitz wrote:
| You keep grouping envy with inherently negative mindsets.
| Sometimes envy is just envy. As in, "damn, John is
| married with kids and a great job, and I'm still single
| and scraping by, I gotta get my shit together". I am not
| upset that John has these things, I am happy my friend
| John is happy. It also served as a reminder of what I
| want for myself, and thus, my envy is a motivator.
| id wrote:
| This is not envy in my opinion. You are not upset, you
| are happy John is happy, where is the envy exactly? You
| recognizing that he has something you don't?
| k_sze wrote:
| One could be "happy"* for a friend and also feel shitty
| about themself.
|
| "Damn. Matthew has changed jobs 3 times in the past 5
| years already, each time to a better paying job. Look at
| you. You're still stuck in this shitty job because you
| suck."
|
| This is literally the kind of thought I have had in the
| past.
|
| [*] Are you "happy" in a polite way? Or are you genuinely
| happy?
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| That invokes the possibility for a better future for me
| as well. "Oh cool, a strategy that I can perhaps use to
| improve my life."
| laputan_machine wrote:
| Genuinely happy, of course! I want to see my friends and
| family succeed in life and enjoy it. I don't feel like a
| lesser person in any way, I feel proud of them.
| sean_the_geek wrote:
| If you feel truly happy about someone else but at the
| same time not let it reflect on you, then I would say you
| are minority. The first part of my sentence is achievable
| and is genuinely positive , at least in a way. The second
| part - not letting it reflect on you - is IMO most people
| struggle.
| sanitycheck wrote:
| I'd feel exactly the same way as you about that, and if
| we truly are in a tiny minority perhaps that does explain
| a lot about the world.
| dwringer wrote:
| Superbia versus invidia, I suppose.
| amelius wrote:
| What kind of therapy is recommended to get into this
| state of being?
| tappio wrote:
| Sorry, it's only available for 0.0001% of population and
| unfortunately you are not one of the lucky ones.
|
| Fortunately, empathy and epistemological pluralism can
| make your life bearable.
| orzig wrote:
| Take it or leave it, Metta meditation is pretty squarely
| aimed at that. I've had only the tiniest bits of success,
| but trying a book/video/app is a ton cheaper+easier than
| therapy!
| johnnymorgan wrote:
| You've never felt Envy towards someone?
|
| I kind of find that hard to believe.
|
| that was all OP was referring too and it's well
| documented. Honestly you come off as dishonest in this
| convo as it's quiet a normal emotion to feel and it's not
| negative per say, it can lead to negative actions but can
| also push people to do better.
|
| "It doesn't matter if the slight is real or not, its the
| perception of the person that matters" -- Jimmy Hoffa
| laputan_machine wrote:
| I've never felt envy towards my friends and family. No,
| never. I find it bizarre that you do.
|
| I never said I don't feel envy. You jumped to conclusions
| based on a very little sentence I wrote.
|
| I currently have a very severe skin condition, and I live
| in a country with 'free' healthcare. I am envious that
| some people get medical treatment for it and can live a
| normal life again and some people do not (such as
| myself).
|
| I don't give a shit if you think I'm dishonest, you do
| not know me.
| mitchdoogle wrote:
| Suppose you tell a friend about a job you're applying to,
| they think it sounds nice, so they apply too and they get
| the job and you don't. You're not jealous of that?
|
| Or maybe your brother and you have a crush on the same
| woman. He asks her out and they start dating. You aren't
| jealous.
|
| Or just suppose you always wanted something at home, a
| hot tub, a big screen tv, a walk-in closet, a home
| office, whatever, and you find out your friend has the
| thing - you'd be envious right?
|
| It seems like you're confusing being envious of someone
| as a negative feeling towards them, which is why you're
| getting caught up on the friends and family aspect. It
| shouldn't matter if it's friends and family - they are
| often the people you know the most about so you'll find
| out if they do/have something you want. If you let your
| envy turn to anger and contempt, that's the negative
| part, but you don't have to - that's just having a
| healthy perspective and self-control
| laputan_machine wrote:
| - I've been in this situation and I was joyed for my
| mate, I ended up getting a better offer from elsewhere so
| it worked out anyway. He's still there, now as a lead
| architect
|
| - This would absolutely make me jealous, but I've never
| been in that situation
|
| - No, this is the weirdest one. I have friends who own
| huge houses (multiple!) and sports cars. I'm happy for
| their success, I find it genuinely mental that you would
| be (are? surely you have more successful friends) jealous
| because your mate has a better car than you. Jesus.
|
| And I'm not "stuck" in the friends and family bit, that's
| been the whole context of the thread.
| sdevonoes wrote:
| > I find it bizarre that you do.
|
| Why? Feeling envious is just human nature. Sure, one can
| argue that in our current society that kind of feeling is
| "bad", and we should "fix it". I tend to agree, but that
| you find it bizarre, it's bizarre to me :D
|
| Oh well, maybe you are a machine (based on your
| nickname), so yeah, machines do not have imperfections
| (just kidding).
| id wrote:
| It's definitely not "human nature" to feel envy towards
| your friends and family, unless you have been wronged by
| them.
| k_sze wrote:
| > It's definitely not "human nature" to feel envy towards
| your friends and family.
|
| Let me tell you how I had envied my cousin when he had a
| Super Famicom (a.k.a. SNES in North America) with a stash
| of great games and I didn't (not even the base machine),
| when I was a kid. He never wronged me. In fact, we were
| really good buddies when we lived next to each other more
| than 20 years ago, but I still envied.
| johnnymorgan wrote:
| It's so well documented it's even a legit part of the
| Bible kekw
|
| I guess you're a saint and the rest of us are just dirty
| sinners haha.
|
| Envy, as I stated, is just an emotion. What the person
| does with it is where the moral and ethical sides come
| into play.
|
| If it pushes me to do better in my life, I'll almost
| certainly mature past that emotion.
|
| Someone else mentioned meditation and I heartily agree,
| mindset is how you approach the emotions.
|
| "Anger is a great servant but a terrible Master" -- some
| guy in a fantasy novel
| guerrilla wrote:
| > Feeling envious is just human nature.
|
| Or maybe it's not and that's just something you tell
| yourself to feel better about being an asshole.
| clausewitz wrote:
| Uhh, no. Envy, like every other human emotion, is just
| that. One part of the vast spectrum of how we perceive
| the world and its inhabitants.
| malauxyeux wrote:
| Does feeling envy make someone an asshole in your eyes?
| Do you believe that people who feel envy can choose to
| not feel it? If they can't choose not to feel it, are
| they doomed to be an asshole (by your definition) for the
| rest of their lives, barring some change outside of their
| control?
|
| To me, simply feeling envy (or any negative emotion)
| doesn't really say anything about the person. Actively
| stoking negative emotions or acting on them moves the
| needle in the direction of asshole, though.
| grapeskin wrote:
| I had that feeling. It pushed me to move to something
| better recently after stagnating for years.
|
| It's an ambivalent feeling. I was definitely stressed for
| months thinking about how much worse my life is as a
| consequence of comparing myself to someone else. But at
| the same time, I've lifted myself up to a higher standard
| since that stress turned into motivation. That friend who
| I felt envious of is also happy for my success, and I'm
| also happy for his.
| dwringer wrote:
| Indeed, it's even possible to be genuinely happy for
| someone but still feel inferiority and discouragement
| when trying to compare aspects of one's own life with
| others.
|
| It's great that not everyone struggles with that, but
| different people struggle with different emotions. Maybe
| we can all agree that whatever their nature and whatever
| we call them is beside the point, (I think) that social
| media engagement optimizations have notoriously exploited
| these effects as they relate to our attention and habits,
| taking many people on an unwanted emotional roller-
| coaster ride for arguably unhealthy amounts of time.
| jtbayly wrote:
| "Every time a friend succeeds, I die a little." Gore
| Vidal
|
| This is not a rare feeling.
| sdevonoes wrote:
| > If a friend gets a great job or starts to live a
| healthy life you don't feel great for them?
|
| We can feel happy (for them) and unsatisfied (with
| ourselves) at the same time. Multiply that by N, and
| well, that's a recipe for disaster (at least for me). I
| know, I know, we shall not compare ourselves with others,
| but hey, I'm not a machine, I have my imperfections which
| I am polishing from time to time, but in the meanwhile
| social media makes everything worse in average (for me).
| prawn wrote:
| I travel more than average so I am happy seeing friends
| going on trips. It's rare that their trip looks better
| than what I've just done or have planned next. But I
| could absolutely see how someone might spectate a feed
| full of holidays and feel from the aggregate like
| everyone else is constantly travelling, while they grind
| away at work.
| malauxyeux wrote:
| Since this is about the effect of social media on mood,
| I'll chime in to say that it's the opposite for me.
|
| Seeing people conspicuously consume extravagant leisure
| travel - and the associated resources - brings to mind
| global warming and how few people actually give a damn
| about it in any meaningful way.
|
| It also reminds me of what brazen liars many people are.
| In cases where I've known the people posting
| Facebook/Insta content about their amazing trips, in
| about half of those, the reality is that the trip was far
| less than amazing than their posts would suggest.
|
| As an example, one woman I know took her family across
| the Pacific to Thailand on a two-week vacation. By their
| accounts, they had a pretty rotten time, even considering
| moving their return date forward. But, the Facebook
| narrative was glowing. Four years later, the woman's
| Facebook cover photo is of a Thai Buddhist temple from
| that trip. (She's not a Buddhist. The photo is purely for
| aesthetics and social signaling.)
|
| It seems to me that this kind of behavior feeds into a
| loop that encourages other people to consume finite
| resources and then post about their "amazing" (though
| often non-amazing) trips. And so the cycle continues.
|
| And that really gets me down. I don't go on Facebook very
| often.
| cableshaft wrote:
| Meanwhile my family's barely travelled the past three
| years due to Covid concerns, tighter budgets (wife's
| income got severely impacted from the pandemic for a
| while, while this year we had to unexpectedly pay a good
| vacation's worth of taxes), and having to use PTO for
| other unrelated things. Most I've done is a few weekend
| trips to neighboring states.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _If other people find their ideal job, have a tropical
| vacation, etc. it makes me feel... good?_
|
| As if regular people don't compare themselves with others and
| just enjoy the success of everybody, without considering if
| they are falling behind or not?
| id wrote:
| You can compare yourself _and_ enjoy the success of someone
| else.
| coldtea wrote:
| In limited capacity, in regular life, yes.
|
| In social media, the constant highlights of the successes
| of other people makes you miserable for yourself, whether
| you feel happy for others too or not.
|
| Besides an experience many can verify, it's also quite
| well studied, including in the linked article.
| cortesoft wrote:
| > In social media, the constant highlights of the
| successes of other people makes you miserable for
| yourself
|
| That might be how it makes you (and others) feel, but
| that doesn't mean everyone feels that way. There are
| people on this thread trying to say that it doesn't make
| them feel that way, but they keep being dismissed. The
| studies don't say EVERYONE feels that way, so to act like
| they are WRONG about how they feel is overly dismissive.
| SyzygistSix wrote:
| The healthy spin on that is seeing possibilities for making
| progress towards one's own goals. Someone losing weight or
| getting fit/getting a new cert, etc makes me think "I can
| do that!"
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > it makes me feel... good?
|
| it doesn't in general.
|
| and that "good feeling" is mostly a lie, something we tell
| ourselves, because of our education, if our education was not
| biased by some made-up belief, we should feel nothing, not
| good, not bad, because we should not care about it. What
| other people do with their lives - in reality - has no impact
| on our life at all.
|
| But we were all thought to poject. Unfortunately people
| mostly project their frustrations on others.
|
| The only way to actually feel good about something that
| people share, it's to share it, like in person, in real life,
| not passively receive it on a screen.
|
| If watching a screen full of "good news" would actually
| improve people's mood, it would be recommended by WHO like
| with vaccines.
| id wrote:
| >that "good feeling" is mostly a lie
|
| I meant good as in "hey, that's great for them", not as in
| "I'm so happy I can't stop smiling".
|
| >because we should not care about it
|
| If people truly didn't care, they wouldn't go on social
| media or read the news.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > I meant good as in "hey, that's great for them"
|
| yeah, that's part of education, it's not really what we
| should feel, because we don't know!
|
| Social media are just suspension of disbelief for the
| masses, we are looking through the keyhole, it should be
| obvious that what we're looking at it's a fabrication and
| nothing is real.
|
| It's like those truth-vs-reality posts about social media
| pictures.
|
| It's so obvious when you think about it for a moment: we
| don't believe that the ice cream in the ADs is actually
| THAT good, why we should believe that self promotional
| material on social media it's any better?
|
| https://www.demilked.com/instagram-online-picture-lies-
| truth...
|
| https://www.boredpanda.com/instagram-vs-reality-truth-
| behind...
|
| > If people truly didn't care, they wouldn't go on social
| media or read the news.
|
| as I've said before.
|
| They _should_ not care, but if they don 't, they're out
| of the game.
|
| And it hurts to them more than feeling bad.
|
| People have been thaught that if you're not getting any
| attention, you're nothing.
| JeremyNT wrote:
| I don't think this is incompatible. While you may feel happy
| for them, seeing the upper bounds on "the good life" could
| also subtly impact your own expectations and the way you
| think of yourself.
|
| This doesn't even need to be an effect you can detect, moment
| to moment, but more of a subconscious push to "want more"
| from life due to observing what other people are doing.
| Agamus wrote:
| Antisocial media makes people antisocial - news at 11!
| krnlpnc wrote:
| > First, you notice a friend's post stating that she has
| accepted her ideal job.
|
| > You continue browsing and see a video of your neighbour
| enjoying a fantastic tropical vacation.
|
| > And now your cousin has uploaded a before and after photo
| that makes you want to hide your thighs for the rest of your
| life.
|
| Sorry to say, but if a person shares a positive thing that's
| happened to them, and their "friend" makes that about themself
| in a negative way, the problem isn't really the delivery
| mechanism (social media)
| scotty79 wrote:
| I think a lot of people realize that facebook makes them feel
| bad but they prefer to feel bad rather than not feel anything
| at all.
|
| They unknowingly pursue easily available emotion (even
| negative) to avoid emotional boredom. It's a bit like watching
| scary or sad movies.
| alephnan wrote:
| > they prefer to feel bad
|
| Kinda the premise of The Matrix
| londons_explore wrote:
| or a lot of films...
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > bad but they prefer to feel bad rather than not feel
| anything at all
|
| this is possible.
|
| But also FOMO makes them feel worse than feeling bad about
| what they read online.
|
| For many people social networks are a conversation topics,
| for some it's the only thing they talk about, if they know
| nothing about what's happening, they're out of the social
| game, even IRL.
| mcphage wrote:
| > It's a bit like watching scary or sad movies.
|
| People like sad and scary movies because they can experience
| powerful emotions in a safe environment. Scary minus being in
| danger is exciting. It's not to avoid emotional boredom.
| sharadov wrote:
| No, it does not bother me. I am one of those people who feels
| happy when something good is happening in other people's lives.
|
| That other person who got that job put time into it and
| achieved it. Good for them.
|
| Someone lost a shit ton of weight and looks ripped. That's
| motivation for me to lift too and eat better.
|
| It comes down to you, are you using that as fuel to motivate
| you or are you seething inside and burning with envy?
|
| I honestly believe that envy is the thief of joy and if you
| allow it to consume you it will destroy you.
|
| The only people that turn me off are those folks who make
| political shit posts, but I don't follow them.
| colpabar wrote:
| > It comes down to you, are you using that as fuel to
| motivate you or are you seething inside and burning with
| envy?
|
| > I honestly believe that envy is the thief of joy and if you
| allow it to consume you it will destroy you.
|
| It's nice that _you_ are able to do this, but most don 't use
| social media this way. They see successful, beautiful people
| doing interesting things and they feel sad that they can't do
| the same. Can't you empathize?
| BhavdeepSethi wrote:
| So true. It's almost ironic how they mention they feel good
| when something good happens to someone else, but when not
| everyone may feel the same, then it's their problem.
|
| "Why can't this be happening to me?" is considered envy,
| but "Why are you not happy for others like me?" is
| considered moral high ground.
| ben174 wrote:
| (not op) Empathize yes, but I would encourage people to try
| as much as they possibly can to change their viewpoint from
| envy to joy. I think that's a healthier solution than
| hiding from it.
| xtracto wrote:
| This made me think: Back in the 90s when I was a teen there
| were several magazines here in Mexico (ERES, Tu) and the
| "socials" section in the local newspaper which dedicated to
| show you the amazing life of socialtes and other famous (or
| not so famous) people. Teenage girls and boys used to buy
| and "read" those magazines to get up to speed on the latest
| gossip, but also just to see what these people were doing.
|
| Do you think that was bad for kids those days?
| OOPMan wrote:
| I think there is a pretty key difference which is pretty
| obvious.
|
| Said obvious difference being the near real-time
| interactive nature of social media.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| spansoa wrote:
| Not if you train your feeds to be high signal. Facebook has an
| 'unfollow' feature which enables you to mute people you don't
| like, but still have them as a friend (for whatever reason,
| went to school together once, or they're a colleague etc). As
| for Twitter, I just curate a bunch of Lists and avoid their
| algorithmic timeline and 'suggested' content.
| akira2501 wrote:
| Your describing social media as something that happens _to_
| you.
|
| You should probably make it something you _choose_ to use. Too
| political rant? Skip it. Video of nothing relevant? Skip it.
| Your cousins photos? If you know they're not for you, why are
| you consuming them every time they drop?
|
| You choose to take your hands of the wheel, of course your
| going to be taken for a ride.
| 0xEFF wrote:
| Driving in heavy traffic is exhausting. Going for a walk is
| refreshing.
| mrtksn wrote:
| I think the roller coaster is not as much as an issue as the
| fast context switching and the hard labour you need to do to
| make sense of the things you see.
|
| You can't have prolonged and deeper thoughts about anything
| because you are bombarded with refined extreme opinions and
| events.
|
| Just yesterday, I was getting ready to do some work I noticed a
| tweet from an antivaxxer retweeted by a cryptobro saying "they
| cannot hide it forever, data leaks" and it was about insurance
| companies claims. The data was legit, indeed there was a huge
| rise in young people claims for dying off from non-covid
| condition. Wow, are the antivaxxers right, is the vaccine
| causing young people to die off from heart attacks? Now I have
| to dig the data and as it turns the rise in deaths started way
| before the vaccine roll out, about the beginning of the
| pandemic and it looks like it is related to drugs.
|
| Because I followed some cryptobro to keep the pulse of the
| cryptobroverse, I had to endure doubt about what I knew was
| true, I had to fear for my life and for the loved ones and I
| had to spend precious time and mental energy because someone
| used misrepresentation of statistics to push an agenda. I was
| too exhausted to do any work.
|
| I don't see how this could healthy. I don't see how I simply
| assume that it was false and ignore it because it will end up
| me missing out on everything outside of my bubble. I don't see
| how I can spend that much energy to fight off every single
| bullshit that is cheap to produce and expensive to clean up.
|
| I don't see how this is sustainable. In real life, bullshitters
| are ousted by the communities but in this artificial
| communities we don't have the tools fight back.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| Removing social media from my phone and replacing it with the
| Kindle app has quite literary changed my life.
| [deleted]
| yawboakye wrote:
| this isn't a problem of social media but rather a problem of
| following current affairs. the cost of publishing has become so
| low that even news media dedicate whole articles to single
| tweets (and other social media posts by famous people). devout
| followers of social media (and perhaps news media, both
| television and internet) have become addicted to
| knowing/following the current thing. one can visit/use twitter,
| facebook, &c everyday without keeping in sync with the current
| things and/or allowing themselves to be tossed about like a
| boat in a tempest. curate deliberately. follow few things and
| people.
| guerrilla wrote:
| > follow few things and people.
|
| Everyone follows few things and people. You don't even know
| the names of all the pop stars to follow let alone their
| drama... or the news in every language you don't speak...
| cteiosanu wrote:
| Shouldn't we work as a society towards a type of education that
| promotes self confidence (more than self esteem) and makes an
| effort to reduce bragging ?
| blitz_skull wrote:
| In other news--if you jump in water, you will also get wet.
| abdouls wrote:
| Totally agree with this! I've used all kind of social media in
| the past, but I have been living freely since I stopped using
| these (well, I still go on to twitter once or twice a week, but I
| can still see a big difference!)
| intense122 wrote:
| I visit small Reddit subreddit which is really well-moderated,
| good sources, I really like it. In spite of, cannot be compared
| with casual Facebook group.
|
| For example, I've created some fancy FB group when people can
| join and after I logged in after a month, it had almost 1 000
| submissions waiting for approval. So i set this to auto
| submissions. I came back and was horrified with the content.
|
| Images of naked people which were breaking so many rules and had
| so many views before Facebook deleted it. What's the worse, I had
| to see it because of admin privilege. Thanks Mark. Fake accounts
| posting IBAN codes, sharing ads and other things. At the end, my
| group was penalized (not banned). Like, the biggest gigantic
| superb tech company can't even detect a nude stuff from fake
| accounts?
| irrational wrote:
| I've noticed the same thing about the news. When I don't follow
| the news I am happier and less anxious. Yet, it doesn't feel
| right to be ignorant of what is going on in the world. How does
| one balance their own happiness versus being informed? "Ignorance
| is bliss" is a saying for a reason I suppose.
| swinnipeg wrote:
| This is often the only choice when there is so much noise.
|
| In the midst of an election a weekly (bi-weekly? monthly?)
| summary article of what happened, and what is important is more
| than sufficient for me.
| ndbebofienw wrote:
| Same thing here. I've ended up with two places I exclusively
| check for news: AllSides [0] and a satirical news source of my
| choice.
|
| AllSides helps me frame big events from multiple perspectives.
| I've always had a hard time seeing these perspectives, so
| having someone else do it for me helps.
|
| The satirical site introduces me to assorted current events
| with a bit of lightheartedness. If it seems important enough,
| I'll do a quick search to learn what the "real" news is.
|
| With this setup, I am not as well-versed in all current events.
| However, it's much less draining, and it also takes less time
| out of my day!
|
| - [0] https://www.allsides.com/
| np- wrote:
| I suffer from this conundrum too. One thing I did observe is
| that people who don't actively follow the 24/7 news and social
| media cycle are still are fairly aware of important major
| events (Ukraine, COVID, etc), as it would be hard to be
| completely ignorant without living under a rock, so maybe it
| doesn't have to be a binary thing.
| dlivingston wrote:
| Reading just the Sunday paper or a weekly magazine like The
| Economist is a happy middle ground, I think.
| nuclearsugar wrote:
| IMO read the news about twice per week. But never watch the
| news on TV.
| irrational wrote:
| I haven't watched TV since the late 1980s, so that one is
| pretty easy.
| ivan_ah wrote:
| Direct link to original paper "Taking a One-Week Break from
| Social Media Improves Well-Being, Depression, and Anxiety: A
| Randomized Controlled Trial" :
| https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/cyber.2021.0324?d...
| (PDF)
| ChrisRR wrote:
| I totally agree. I manage my anxiety and ignoring the news and
| social media are the biggest contributors.
|
| Twitter is especially bad for it. The site seems explicitly
| designed to make you think the world is going to shit on a daily
| basis
| jokoon wrote:
| Social media allows people to feel less alone, I guess...
|
| The problem of internet is toxicity, where users feel they can
| disrespect others without consequences, something they would not
| do face to face.
|
| It seems there is no good solution to this problem, except
| reducing the size of communities so they don't feel anonymous.
|
| I really think the website who will solve the toxicity problem
| will win a lot of money.
| mawadev wrote:
| I must comment about the people claiming it does nothing to them.
| I thought so, too. I justified spending more time on these sites.
|
| However - as the time went by, I noticed these posts moving into
| my subconscious mind. Thoughts I had afterwards were a little
| skewed.
|
| If you enter a forest and you hear a sound you have never heard
| before, you look around and find the source. In 3 years, if you
| hear that sound again, your body remembers and you may not look
| around again.
|
| That is the power of our memory and I really want to emphasize
| there is way more going on than you can keep track of at first
| glance.
| account-5 wrote:
| I still remember when social media/web 2.0 was kicking off. All
| my mates were on it. I tried I really did but I thought the whole
| thing was a waste of time. When I finally learned the true intent
| behind these platforms wasn't connecting people but was making
| money from those people (connecting people is just the hook) I
| was done.
|
| Having seen how these platforms affect my children I'm now dead
| set against them.
|
| You literally are the product, and are manipulated to stay on the
| platforms to continue to be so.
|
| This is my long way of saying, with personal annocdotes, that I
| am not surprised at all by this finding.
| Diya_Tech wrote:
| no its not make me happy because i dont have any friends to talk
| or enjoy the nature
| nivenkos wrote:
| I just stopped reading news completely, and deleted Twitter.
|
| And try to only read technical subreddits.
|
| It's a whole lot better - using the time to exercise or program
| instead of just doom-scrolling for stuff we can't change anyway.
| [deleted]
| elvis10ten wrote:
| In topics like these on HN, people often compare social media
| (SM) with tobacco/drugs. I still disagree with this comparison.
|
| For one, social media is not inherently bad like smoking/some
| drugs.
|
| The only SM I use currently is Instagram. I spend 30 minutes or
| less per day and I'm usually happy at the end.
|
| In fact I would argue IG made me a better person -- I got into
| fitness, helped me connect with a football club I now play with,
| etc. In the past I used Facebook a lot and it changed my life --
| I found jobs and built connection with people I would have never
| had the opportunity to meet.
|
| The majority of my friends have a similar experience. My father
| (60) who lives in a remote part of the world uses "joy" to
| express his experience with SM.
|
| Secondly, on the topic of social media making people feel
| insecure about something (like their bodies). Isn't that
| everywhere? At the beach? In magazines? On TV? At parties? In
| school?
|
| I'm into fitness and I see people that have better aesthetics
| than me on SM and IRL. I appreciate their beauty but it doesn't
| faze me. Isn't it common knowledge that someone always have more
| X than you? And these people are usually the minority?
|
| Lastly, influencers react to the market. Anyone who has ever
| posted content know that wholesome content are usually not
| engaged on as much as exaggerated/superficial content. If people
| want less of these, maybe they should vote with their likes &
| follows?
|
| PS: I do realize some part of my comment might not be as
| practical as simply not using social media at all. But I think we
| should be teaching people these skills as it applies beyond SM
| usage.
| acatnamedjoe wrote:
| These sorts of responses always come up to these kinds of posts
| and, with respect, they always seem to come down to: "I don't
| have any issues with social media so I can't see why anyone
| else does"
|
| But imagine saying to an alcoholic: "I can have a few beers on
| a Friday night and then stop, and so can the majority of my
| friends, so I dont see what the problem is."
| elvis10ten wrote:
| Again, I think this analogy doesn't work. Firstly, alcohol is
| inherently bad for you. SM is not. SM to me is more malleable
| and we can choose to make it what we want. We could apply
| this to most things from video games to work.
| ricardobeat wrote:
| Video games or work do not expose you to ads or
| recommendation systems, or feeds of your friends living a
| perfect life.
|
| There are no parallels among these, I think you're trying a
| bit too hard to go against the current. Its good for you
| that you have a healthy relationship with social media, but
| as evidenced by the study in this post and others it does
| have a negative impact that you can't wish away.
| elvis10ten wrote:
| Will you say people don't also compare video games to
| tobacco/drugs? Or people can't get addicted to
| working/video games/etc?
|
| > Video games or work do not expose you to *ads or
| recommendation systems*
|
| You must be joking? When last did you play free games on
| your phone? Are even ads or recommendation system unique
| to SM?
|
| > friends living a perfect life
|
| This happens anyways is my argument. Although it can be
| more persistent with SM, I admit.
|
| > I think you're trying a bit too hard to go against the
| current.
|
| My issue is with comments like "SM is like
| smoking/alcohol/drugs". Which I don't think is a correct
| comparison.
| corderop wrote:
| > Secondly, on the topic of social media making people feel
| insecure about something (like their bodies). Isn't that
| everywhere? At the beach? In magazines? On TV? At parties? In
| school?
|
| The thought that I have overcome about this is that SM is
| different from the examples that you gave. In magazines or TV,
| you assume that is going to be filled with "non-real" people
| (esthetic surgeries...), but at the end of the day, you will be
| surrounded by people like you.
|
| At parties, school, or at the beach, yes you can find some
| perfect people, but the vast majority are going to be just
| normal people like you.
|
| SM is different for that, you are comparing every nuance of you
| with an adulterated version of normal people (just people like
| you, not famous people). Personally, SM makes me feel that
| everybody except me has an ideal life and I know that's not
| true.
|
| I don't like the "social" aspect of social media, I like the
| "media" part though. I like to follow photographers, use to
| follow some type of hobby, but not to see people's life.
|
| Edit: typo
| elvis10ten wrote:
| That makes sense. Do you see the general public making a
| similar shift that most people on SM besides some of my
| friends are "not real" people?
|
| I slightly disagree with the parties, school part. Most
| people with "great bodies" are most likely the ones with
| revealing clothes at these places. There are lots of "not
| real" people there (they are not at a celebrity level but
| they make sure they are visible). Maybe your experience
| differs?
|
| > I like the "media" part though. I like to follow
| photographers, use to follow some type of hobby, but not to
| see people's life. > SM makes me feel that everybody except
| me has an ideal life and I know that's not true.
|
| I'm split between both. I follow some people for the media
| part; And others for their wholesome content which usually
| includes part of their lives.
|
| The sad part is that these wholesome people sometimes turn
| into "not real" people.
|
| When I started a fitness account, I quickly realized the
| engagement from people were taking me into being a fake
| person. Thankfully, I closed that a while ago. But my
| takeaway from this experience, is that the problem is with
| people and not SM? (But what do I know :) )
| wwwwasmistake wrote:
| I was an social media early adopter but have been off from big
| social medias for years and as a non-native english speaker i
| can't find correct words to describe how happy I have been with
| this decision. Maybe someone else can handle it better.
| Diya_Tech wrote:
| no its dont make me happy because i dont have friends to talk and
| to enjoy the nature
| gnarbarian wrote:
| Consume media like you consume food Don't just eat whatever
| tastes good.
|
| Use self-discipline to cultivate a state of mind like you would
| cultivate a healthy body.
| nomilk wrote:
| Junk food's a great analogy. When encountering delicious junk
| food we're biologically compulsed to gorge. And just like we
| learn to moderate our junk food intake, it's easy enough to
| learn the warning signs of doom scrolling and put an end to it
| (just takes awareness and discipline).
|
| Side note: I do the same when I (through force of habit) start
| a game of bullet chess, there's about 5 seconds before the game
| starts - just enough time to quickly cancel! (if I play 1
| bullet chess game, I'll probably play 5 more right after, so
| quickly escaping when I shouldn't be playing is a huge
| benefit).
| madiator wrote:
| A different mental model I like and use is to treat your brain
| as a walled garden. Be selective and picky about what you sow.
| p5v wrote:
| Being able to take a break from social media is one of the nobler
| goals we started building Murmel (https://murmel.social) with.
| It's not an easy process, and we are far from finished, but our
| customers have already reported positive results back to us.
| Rather than scrolling on Twitter for hours, they now let the best
| of their Twitter timeline arrive in their inboxes once a day.
| Like the morning newspaper reading routine, I am hoping that we
| would be able to provide people with the option to disengage from
| the downward spiral of doom-scrolling, and instead, get the gist
| of all there is to know in one daily email digest.
| agomez314 wrote:
| I believe this also applies to Hacker News.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| I took a permanent break from social media and am much happier
| about it. These days, I only keep a slim business-oriented
| presence on some social media networks.
|
| For the communities that I want to engage in that have moved over
| to social media, I use anonymized burner accounts that are in no
| way associated with who I actually am, and I don't follow or
| interact with people I actually know in real life. I like it this
| way.
| sgtnoodle wrote:
| Until the past couple weeks I haven't used reddit in years
| because its just a bunch of toxic echo chambers. Today I tried
| posting a helpful suggestion to someone asking for
| recommendations for speakers for their parents' TV. Several other
| users got nasty and a mod deleted our thread because I dared to
| suggest a soundbar in the "home theater" forum. I guess I'll try
| again in a few more years?
| 8K832d7tNmiQ wrote:
| Reddit is still the best place to find and learn small and
| niche interests, with bonus points if it's still pretty active.
| jokoon wrote:
| I love Reddit, but I wish it was a little less toxic sometimes.
|
| Reducing toxicity online really is a hard problem.
| asciimov wrote:
| Reddit is best when the sub-reddits are smallish. Home Theater
| is gets pretty rabid when it comes to soundbars, that's the
| last place to ask or give soundbar advice.
|
| Typically, the subreddits I like the best are splinters from
| the original. Typically these start after some sub-reddit drama
| happens and a moderate size group decides to go somewhere else.
| qiskit wrote:
| Taking a break from all media makes you happier and less anxious.
| Especially if you are overconsuming media like many people are.
| zmxz wrote:
| I'm 39, this is for reference (in case anyone reads this). I got
| into programming because I was a gamer (year is 1998) and I built
| my clan's website (they're called teams today) by copying this
| other cool dude from another clan. He was my mentor. It took me
| so long to do what he did, what he told me was - "if you want to
| get it done, disconnect". We used modems so disconnecting was
| normal and easy - if you unplug the telephone wire, it's a hassle
| to get behind the PC, plug the wire, go through the whole buzzing
| etc, gist being that even if you want to "just check what's new
| on forum" - you give up due to hassle.
|
| This "technique" stuck with me. Want to get it done? Disconnect.
| And then came the era of Facebook and other sites where people
| shared their pictures, opinion, thoughts etc. as if anyone cares
| about their everyday lives. I'm from the generation where you
| never shared anything with strangers online.
|
| And then, it turns out, people get hooked to this whole infinite
| scrolling business, being occupied with content they don't care
| about. They can't disconnect. And when you don't disconnect,
| you're distracted.
|
| I tried Facebook. I hate it with passion. I don't want to write
| about myself. I'm not interesting to myself, let alone others. I
| like privacy. I don't care what my Facebook friend does, why
| don't they do it without having to archive it? There's many
| things that are way, way too odd to me when it comes to social
| media but I understand it's like a multiplayer game to a teenager
| - it's something new and there's a lot to explore, heck you even
| connect with certain people on a certain level.
|
| I've never seen a social media user who was not impacted by
| negative content. For some reason, human turns to negatives
| before they do to positives. And that's what global social media
| is - the outlet where a lot of people let out their negatives.
| That's what makes me unhappy. To read about flat earth, then
| getting tangled in endless explanations on why it is/isn't flat.
| It's the people who are stubborn, unreceptive, just waiting to
| share without trying to receive.
|
| Not everyone had mentors or difficulties in connecting to the
| internet which gives them the means to moderate the usage of it.
| Being exposed to a huge amount of information is dangerous, I've
| seen people become sloppy because they need to read / consume
| fast so they can move to the next thing which MIGHT be more
| interesting but they don't know until they try to read/consume it
| and the cycle continues.
|
| So yes, I wholeheartedly agree without any facts and based purely
| on my subjective impression of social media - that it's something
| that makes _me_ unhappy. It does not mean it should or does make
| someone else unhappy, but I for sure liked the internet when it
| was more difficult for an average human to use it.
| tappio wrote:
| The studies focusing on social media are a bit dummy. I'm doing a
| PhD on the topic and I too feel like a dummy. Everyone has a
| different definition of social media, but we can't really
| generalize findings on all platforms. The studies should focus on
| services with their names, but then they would be less
| interesting. Are Twitter and Facebook the same? Can we generalize
| findings on one to another? No we can't. Besides, is HN a social
| media platform? Or Reddit? Talking about social media does not
| make much sense. It also hides out the fact that in the end
| everything is about the internet and digital content, together
| forming the new mass medium which is taking the world by storm.
| Zenst wrote:
| Whilst I've taken breaks, indeed quit social media years ago it
| does somewhat pain me that many services needed are accesable via
| such platforms and you can send a tweet to the local council all
| public and they will respond. Send an email - maybe, eventualy,
| though often not as gets bounced about and phone calls, well they
| embraced work from home as given my local council opertunity to
| sell the crown jewls (aka historic building they base out of). So
| it sadly does seem somewhat a neccesary evil.
|
| FOr me social media needs the ability to censor and filter placed
| into the hands of the user and let them decide what offends them
| or not and give them to tools to filter that for their own
| comfort. Sadly that is kinda lacking and you get the social
| media's flavout of censoring, which can be biased to the stage of
| fueling issues.
|
| One question though - has anybody ever taken a break from Hacker
| News due to content? Me - nope, and doubt many if any who have
| been that way due to content/engagements. The level of docurum
| and interactions upon this social media format does attract and
| enforce a more civil and factual level of discourse that
| trancends anything your twitters or facebooks etc offer.
|
| So thank you once again Dang for keeping things real.
| krnlpnc wrote:
| My trick is to follow accounts about things that I enjoy and
| people who are positive.
|
| I simply unfollow accounts if they post toxic or exhausting
| things. Even if I know them in person (including my sibling,
| sorry send a text or a postcard!)
|
| Now my feed is full of positive things, close friends, my
| favorite hobbies and jokes that I enjoy.
|
| Also, only using insta and tiktok is an immediate improvement.
| Facebook is a cesspool due to it constantly highlighting
| "friends" comments on random other accounts.
| nickstinemates wrote:
| I think it depends on how and why you use social media. For me,
| having picked Twitter back up recently after having been mostly
| dormant for the past 4 years or so, it is about inspiration.
|
| The next thing for me is to create a startup. I am immersing
| myself back in to the heartbeat / pulse of what's going on and
| thinking about how my ideas intersect with this.
|
| There are a lot of inspiring projects I am following lately,
| specifically around devtools, platforms, etc. that almost
| exclusively exist on these mediums.
| harryvederci wrote:
| If twitter works for you then that's great, but if[0] you're
| purely seeking inspiration for creating a startup, you could
| consider listening to podcasts like Indie Hackers instead. It's
| probably way less of an attention black hole, but still
| inspirational.
|
| [0] I can't tell from your comment if that's the sole purpose.
| If not: never mind.
| nickstinemates wrote:
| Appreciate the podcast suggestion. It's more about immersion
| than it is one specific thing. In addition to the social
| media angle, I am hopeful tech meetups come back in earnest
| in San Francisco at different startups; this is the melting
| pot of ideas and innovation and they're so much fun.
| eligro91 wrote:
| I'm using 2 useful apps to avoid social media on my smartphone:
|
| - Minimalist phone:
|
| Gives you full control on your home screen, and which apps you
| want to hide.
|
| - lock me out:
|
| Useful apps and sites blocking. You must pay in-app-purchase to
| break out your rules.
|
| And for my mac I'm using static /etc/hosts file and simply
| putting hosts that I don't want to access hundreds of times.
|
| it looks like that:
|
| 127.0.0.1 news.google.com
|
| 127.0.0.1 www.youtube.com
|
| 127.0.0.1 www.facebook.com
|
| 127.0.0.1 twitter.com ...
| Markstar wrote:
| Interesting. The latter reminds me of a book ("Drop Dead
| Healthy"), where the author tests a similar technique to
| incentivize productive behavior. There it goes a step further,
| though: If you miss a deadline, break a promise, etc., you must
| donate a specific amount to a cause that you despise.
| bishopsmother wrote:
| I'm building SocialsDetox ( https://socialsdetox.com/r/sdh )
| along similar lines, to provide an easy way to block/timeout
| from Social Media (and/or other categories that may be
| detrimental to well-being). Unfortunately I suspect not many
| people would opt for the "donation to a cause they despised"
| feature (before being allowed to re-enable their access);
| will look at adding it as an option and report on the take-
| up.
| eligro91 wrote:
| there is https://www.beeminder.com/home
|
| which is doing pretty much what you've described here.
| Calvin02 wrote:
| Does this include HN? Asking for a friend.
|
| Snark aside, why is this a recurring obsession of HN posters?
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| HN hits the same buttons as reddit for me, that is, compulsion
| to constantly refresh to see if there is something new, karma
| goes up, or I've gotten replies, so no, HN isn't any different,
| though it has less of the toxicity and low or no-value
| comments.
| dt3ft wrote:
| Absolutely. For example, HN karma is something that should not
| exist, or at least be permanently hidden for all.
| watwut wrote:
| > Snark aside, why is this a recurring obsession of HN posters?
|
| I think that there are too related patterns on HN and both have
| to do with tech culture. First, complains about loneliness and
| seeing loneliness as major problem. Second, looking down on
| socialization or at least ways other people socialize - whether
| social media or young students partying and socializing. So,
| any bad news about social media is welcome.
|
| There is ethos of not socializing the wrong way or not at all.
| And ethos of not wasting your time with fluff, doing side
| project or getting better in something instead (and some amount
| of this is absolutely good) and of working a lot. And
| combination then it leads to kind of magical thinking of "if
| only other people did not used these, everything would be
| better".
| [deleted]
| Syonyk wrote:
| I'd argue that it can include HN, but HN is not designed to be
| nearly as toxic, and actually goes out of the way to be "as
| not-toxic as possible without breaking the concept of what it's
| trying to be."
|
| I've spent a while thinking through "What makes social media
| evil?" - I've read a number of studies, I grew up with the
| first wave of what we might call "social media" (never used
| MySpace but was quite familiar with it from friends,
| extensively used LiveJournal, etc). And my conclusion is that
| once you go away from "global state" to "individualized
| algorithmic feeds," it's probably gone evil.
|
| HN, as far as I can tell, has a global state. There may be some
| replication delays (if it's hosted on multiple servers, which I
| simply don't know - I can't imagine it requires much in terms
| of resources to host), but "I see what you see what a non-
| logged in user sees," with only very, very few differences
| (flagged/dead posts, mostly). It's not reordering the state
| based on what it knows about _me_ - it 's reordering, globally,
| for all users, based on the consensus. The same was true of LJ
| - you had your own feed, but outside permission related
| differences, if I looked at a community and you did, we both
| saw the same thing.
|
| This global state also means that there's no "slot machine"
| behavior of "pull the slider and see what's new." You refresh.
| It's the same stuff. Maybe two things switched positions. Go
| away, because it's simply not going to change that fast for
| you.
|
| HN also doesn't go with the endless scrolling. There's a bottom
| of the first page. You have to make a deliberate decision to
| see beyond it, and that's something that historically was just
| "how things worked," but has been replaced with the bottomless
| bowl approach. We know that people, given a bottomless bowl of
| soup, eat more. And given that every ad revenue based social
| media company has gone to that model, clearly people consume
| more.
|
| Humans are vulnerable to "metricification" quirks, and you see
| that with a lot of social medias too. HN only shows your
| up/down votes, and you can't see anything else. There's a
| demetrificator extension for it, though I would like the option
| to turn the metrics off in my profile.
|
| And, finally, HN is "pull" - I have to go to the site, vs it
| reaching out with notifications to try and drag me back in.
| Plus, there's the noprocrast setting. It gives you the tools to
| make it a nuisance to use too much.
|
| So, while HN _can_ be somewhat addictive if you let it, the
| lack of any "weaponization of psychology" tricks and the very
| active "No, really, you've been looking at it too long, go
| away" coding means that I don't consider it particularly toxic,
| and certainly not in the same style as FB/Twitter/etc.
|
| Why it's a recurring obsession? Probably because a lot of us
| have been in the tech industry, have seen how it works, have
| (probably) been addicted at some point, have watched the whole
| concept go from "Huh, this is kind of a neat way to connect
| with people I'd never talk to otherwise!" to "
| _Braaaaaaiiiiiinss... via eeeeeyyyyyeeebaaaallllssss!_ " in the
| past 10-15 years, and really want no part of it anymore, and
| want to help ensure other people see it for the vile, human-
| toxic trash it is.
|
| It'll destroy your ability to focus, make you less emotionally
| unstable, warp your view of reality in one of a variety of
| ways, suck basically all the time you let it, try with every
| trick in the book to addict you. And in exchange, some tech
| billionaires get another couple feet on their yachts. Yay?
| bee_rider wrote:
| > Humans are vulnerable to "metricification" quirks, and you
| see that with a lot of social medias too. HN only shows your
| up/down votes, and you can't see anything else. There's a
| demetrificator extension for it, though I would like the
| option to turn the metrics off in my profile.
|
| Where's this extension? That seems useful (I'm susceptible to
| "metricification" - quit reddit because of it. He said,
| knowing that mentioning quitting reddit would probably net
| him at least 5 upvotes).
| Syonyk wrote:
| https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-
| demetr...
| openknot wrote:
| >"Snark aside, why is this a recurring obsession of HN
| posters?"
|
| The topic is related to technology (and thus easier to justify
| as relevant to the forum) and has a low barrier of entry to
| discuss. A significant majority of people in Western countries
| use social media and it doesn't require technical knowledge, so
| it's easier to share opinions about it.
|
| Reading HN threads on social media is almost like consuming
| junk food: the arguments are predictable but comfortable and
| easy to digest. It's enjoyable in a perverse way, though not a
| real source of growth as the ideas aren't as hard to struggle
| with (versus threads on more technical topics).
| rilezg wrote:
| I think many people want to spend less time consuming media
| ('social' or otherwise) and more time interacting with the
| physical world/people. But it is difficult to do that these
| days because there is endless attention-grabbing media to
| consume and that is what it feels like everyone else is doing
| so it becomes the default.
|
| For me it includes HN.
| randomsearch wrote:
| No, I don't think so.
|
| HN is not constantly measuring your behaviour and trying to
| feed you more addictive and outrageous content.
|
| HN does not advertise your karma to others as a measure of self
| esteem.
|
| HN does not make money from advertising.
|
| HN is not like social media in the ways that matter when
| discussing how damaging social media is.
| nonbirithm wrote:
| In my opinion, yes.
|
| HN has been a significant contributor to my cynicism. There
| have been enough submissions in the past where I already knew
| what to expect from the comments section, especially in cases
| where my stance on the matter is already firm/obvious (such as
| with tech regulation, climate change, complaints about Twitter
| threads being reposted to HN, articles about social media
| dooming us like this one).
|
| My reaction to these cases is typically along the lines of
| "yes, we know this bad, but what's going to change? What does
| continuing to complain here accomplish?" It's largely the same
| mechanism as those other toxic media platforms, and yet HN
| often falls for it as well. The band of people who decry
| Twitter _et al._ at the usual opportunities has persisted for
| years at this point, and they are unlikely to ever exit this
| community for good. Yet it 's trivial from force of habit to
| click through to the comments anyway and continue to expose
| oneself to the usual negativity.
|
| And I don't even use Twitter anymore - it's not like I disagree
| with many of those negative opinions. But after years and years
| of reading the same tired arguments, that negativity seems to
| transcend its original context to worm its way into your
| thought process as a general, persistent haze.
| Gigachad wrote:
| Every time I see a Firefox announcement of any kind I know
| the top comment will be a link to bugzilla showing some 15
| year old bug that the commenter thinks is absolutely critical
| or something about the CEOs pay.
|
| Maybe if you are lucky, page 2 has comments about the actual
| article.
| mattlondon wrote:
| I have a similar experience with anything related to Google
| or GCP - click through and there are endless comments about
| Google shutting down products and how people would never
| use them or how the customer support is bad.
|
| However, I have noticed that this trend is starting to
| change so there is hope! I am not sure if it is because the
| HN community has changed, or if Google has changed its
| public perception (unlikely I expect)
| rektide wrote:
| Society's opinion of social media is by far the biggest boldest
| new pop-culture gazing-at-itself and snake-eating-it's-tale
| opportunity of the century. This is a cultural fixation, and
| one we've already largely convinced ourselves is awful &
| terrible & the source of great suffering. That it happens to be
| some pretty delinquent not great companies running the show is
| a great fuel for the bonfire, cause for pyrophilia.
| igorstellar wrote:
| This is a real struggle for a lot of people, myself included.
| Hence the hype.
| nomilk wrote:
| > why is this a recurring obsession of HN posters?
|
| Most of us would have doom scrolled in one form or another,
| many do it regularly, which can be hugely detrimental to life
| satisfaction in the same way any addiction could be, and can
| also increase anxiety. It's also in the _interest_ of app
| makers to encourage these mostly destructive habits.
| antupis wrote:
| Yeah I would say doomscrolling and content which milk strong
| emotional reactions are culprits.
| shoeshoeshoey wrote:
| At Facebook / Meta, employees often questioned Mark Zuckerberg
| whenever a study like this came out. Zuckerberg noted that the
| same held true for news media. Reporters do not like to mention
| this.
| jdavis703 wrote:
| My Twitter feed is basically the news. The first 4 of 5 posts
| are from established news organizations or about current
| events. Social media vs news media is a distinction without a
| difference.
| nomilk wrote:
| I think of it the other way around, that "news" sites have
| become social media aggregators.
| fleetwoodsnack wrote:
| Well no, not legally. Social media platforms have certain
| legal protections against litigation for their content while
| news organizations do not.
|
| The distinctions are actually fairly profound and include
| established practices and professional norms concerning
| information sourcing, verification/due diligence, and
| editorial discretion. This is all before the agent-principal
| relationship, contractual obligations, and regulatory
| oversight to which news organizations are subject.
|
| I understand why Zuckerberg needs to make the false
| equivalence, but we don't (necessarily) share his profit
| motive and can be more objective here.
| openknot wrote:
| Depends on the news source. There is a noticeable difference
| between Tweets and unverified Facebook posts, news media from
| Buzzfeed or Salon, articles from a local newspaper, articles
| from The New York Times/Washington Post, and articles from the
| Financial Times or The Wall Street Journal.
|
| Not all news is designed for outrage. Several publications
| publish in-depth articles in a neutral way, where you can
| actually learn something. Investigations are also often
| genuinely useful for a better society. Zuckerberg's position
| therefore doesn't hold true for all news media.
|
| Separately, depending on how your social media feed is set up,
| you can be feel jealous/lesser due to seeing the high points of
| the lives of people you know (depending on your personality
| type), seeing news on your feed, or seeing neither due to
| subscribing to accounts in niche fields.
| Hamuko wrote:
| > _Not all news is designed for outrage._
|
| I don't think I get anxiety from content "designed for
| outrage". But if I go to the front page of the Washington
| Post, here's what I see:
|
| > _Buffalo shooting suspect wrote of plans months ago, online
| messages show_
|
| > _Only 22 saw the Buffalo shooting live. Millions have seen
| it since._
|
| > _A barrage of 'never-ending gunshots': Inside the Buffalo
| massacre_
|
| > _Ukraine ends bloody battle for Mariupol, evacuates
| fighters in steel plant_
|
| > _Republicans are bringing extremism to the mainstream_
|
| > _White Americans must speak out against white supremacy_
|
| > _Russia is losing. That might make Putin more dangerous._
|
| I'd say that these headlines are more in the "giving me
| anxiety" camp than not.
| openknot wrote:
| That is the point of my comment: not all news sources are
| designed for clickbait. In contrast, consider The Financial
| Times's (FT's) headlines:
|
| >Tiger Global slashes bets on tech groups after stock
| market sell-off
|
| > News in-depth. Military briefing: why Russia and Ukraine
| are fighting over a Black Sea outcrop
|
| > Investors pull $7bn from Tether as stablecoin jitters
| intensify
|
| > Buffett buys $3bn Citi stake in value-hunting stock
| splurge
|
| > Ethiopia atrocities cast long shadow as city of Lalibela
| prays for peace
|
| > Qantas says synthetic fuel could power long flights by
| mid-2030s
|
| Some of the news itself is tragic. But it's a false
| equivalence to claim that the headlines and article content
| between news sources (e.g. Washington Post vs. the FT) are
| equally outrage-provoking or informative. The Washington
| Post was listed in the middle because their articles are
| usually highly informative (from the number of interviewed
| people and documents analyzed), though their headlines are
| more clickbait.
|
| Both The Washington Post or the FT are different from
| (typically) Salon, and each is a far cry from social media.
| Also, the debate of news media in place of discussing
| social media is exactly the effect that Zuckerberg intended
| with his comment.
| greggman3 wrote:
| To add to this. I don't watch the news anymore (maybe that
| makes me a bad person). I also rarely read it (except for
| hacker "news") but... Every few weeks I visit my mom for a
| few days and she wants to watch the news around 10pm. It
| always massively over hyped violence, crime, political
| outrage, and it's funny, in a sad way, that she always gets
| upset at it and ask her why she keeps watching. She says
| "for the weather" to which I reply (you can ask your
| ipad/iphone) but she keeps doing it even though every night
| it's clearly upsetting her. I think it's a habit like she
| feels they day isn't over unless she ends the night with
| news, even though it's 90% designed for outrage and
| sensationalism.
| davidhay wrote:
| Exactly. Also, Major news outlets A/B test their headlines,
| just like advertisers, which has clearly show that anxiety
| provoking headlines get clicks.
| em500 wrote:
| Maybe try FT. Currently the Most Read headlines are:
|
| - Bitcoin has no future as a payments network, says FTX
| chief
|
| - Putin signals acceptance of Finland and Sweden joining
| Nato
|
| - China's economic activity plummets as Covid lockdowns hit
| growth
|
| - "Russia learns a hard lesson about the folly of war"
|
| - Harrow Beijing school loses its hallowed British branding
|
| Or Wikipedia's Current events Portal:
|
| - Hassan Sheikh Mohamud (pictured) is elected as President
| of Somalia.
|
| - In the United States, ten people are killed in a mass
| shooting at a supermarket in Buffalo, New York.
|
| - Ukraine, represented by Kalush Orchestra with the song
| "Stefania", wins the Eurovision Song Contest.
|
| - Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan inherits the Emirate of Abu
| Dhabi and becomes President of the United Arab Emirates
| after the death of Khalifa bin Zayed Al Nahyan.
| greggman3 wrote:
| And you could say the same about social media. I'm on
| facebook. I get no outrage. I unfollowed anyone who posts it
| and FB doesn't insert any. As an example right now my FB feed
| is:
|
| > Picture of a the blood moon eclipse a friend took
|
| > A Picture of a CD cover of a song a friend is listing too
|
| > Pictures from my sister visiting her best friend in another
| state.
|
| > A funny gif from a friend making fun of crypto crashing
|
| > A poster of the new Japanese Ultraman movie and a friend
| saying he saw it and really enjoyed it and is looking forward
| to the Masked Rider movie.
|
| > More pictures from my sister
|
| > A collection of doodles from an artist friend
|
| > A picture of my sister with 2 x-neighbors I haven't seen in
| 35 years
|
| > A friend saying he loved the video game "The Final Station"
|
| > More pics from my sister
|
| > A friend posting a link to a music video she loves
|
| > A friend posting about a game they made at a game jam
|
| > A friend saying he started doing trip planning for families
| going to Disneyland.
|
| > My aunt posting a picture of flowers my uncle bought her.
|
| > A friend posting about a show he went to in Argentina
|
| > My sister posting a words of wisdom type picture
|
| > A friend posting he can't believe he's had the same job he
| loves for 8yrs already
|
| > A friend posting an artist concept drawing of Cassini
| taking a picture of Saturn
|
| > A friend who makes one off dresses on etsy posting her
| latest creations
|
| > A friend posting he likes "Picard" but it should have had a
| "Shut up, Wesley" scene.
|
| No outrage in my feed.
|
| To put it another way, social media is what you make of it.
| If you don't want the outrage the stop following the outrage.
| sghiassy wrote:
| Correct. I believe you.
|
| But somehow that's not what happening to the population as
| a whole.
|
| My guess, is the mere fact you're on HN means you're
| separate from the population writ large
| hackernewds wrote:
| That does not seem controversial. However
| Facebook/Instagram does not allow you to only see results
| for friends you follow. Explore page, ads, recommended
| posts, shorts, reels pepper your news feed. And your
| friends posts are also sorted with the intention of maximum
| engagement, not relevance.
| tayo42 wrote:
| This kind of reads like an ad for Facebook. It sounds way
| to ideal. My feed is just reposted meme pages with the
| occasional baby and vacation picture thrown in
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I've stopped going to facebook myself because even though a
| lot of it for me was like that (and no outrage or politics,
| that's just outrage and edge cases that filter onto
| aggregators like reddit), I noticed at some point that a
| third was Facebook ads, and another third ads made by other
| people.
|
| I'm latching onto your post because a number of those are
| advertisements / promotions; social media has turned a lot
| of people into unpaid marketeers. In a sense, I mean I get
| that people are fans of e.g. TV shows, but still. Anyway
| here's some that I think are advertisements in disguise:
|
| > A Picture of a CD cover of a song a friend is listing too
|
| > A poster of the new Japanese Ultraman movie and a friend
| saying he saw it and really enjoyed it and is looking
| forward to the Masked Rider movie.
|
| > A friend saying he loved the video game "The Final
| Station"
|
| > A friend posting a link to a music video she loves
|
| > A friend posting about a game they made at a game jam
|
| > A friend saying he started doing trip planning for
| families going to Disneyland.
|
| > My aunt posting a picture of flowers my uncle bought her.
|
| > A friend posting about a show he went to in Argentina
|
| > A friend who makes one off dresses on etsy posting her
| latest creations
|
| > A friend posting he likes "Picard" but it should have had
| a "Shut up, Wesley" scene.
| rilezg wrote:
| I don't agree that it depends on the news source. The problem
| is consuming media and not acting on it. A person can use
| social media to inspire real positive change in their
| behaviors and their life, and a person can read in-depth,
| well-written articles about atrocities happening half-way
| around the world and just end up feeling powerless and
| depressed.
| openknot wrote:
| There are legitimate opportunities to act on the news. For
| example, I avoided a fairly convincing phishing attempt
| with my work email due to reading a relevant article in a
| mainstream newspaper. News can similarly help a person
| avoid scams and cons.
|
| News also provides common conversational topics with
| different types of people. A lot of people in business read
| The Wall Street Journal, and it's easier to find common
| talking points with them if I read the news (especially on
| news about their industry). Similarly, a lot of academics
| and people in education read The New York Times. Though
| reading the news isn't necessary to start a conversation,
| it's often an easy starting point.
| hackernewds wrote:
| The natural extension then seems to abstain from both. not
| encourage one as the employees are pushed to understand.
| forgingahead wrote:
| Yes, the correct headline and takeaway should be: "Taking a
| break from ALL media makes you happier", or rather, "go outside
| and spend time with real people".
| jimt1234 wrote:
| YES!!! ^^^
| zoul wrote:
| While that's true, it misses the point - which is that
| Facebook is consciously and painstankingly designed you keep
| to "engaged". Sure, everyone wants to keep their website
| visitors, but what Facebook does is a different level. (And
| many media consider their readers to be their customers, not
| the goods being sold. That's a huge difference.)
| Karawebnetwork wrote:
| My significant other has a news app "addiction". A lot of them
| now mimic the feeds of social medias. She went up to spending 6
| hours a day scrolling down the infinite scroll until we noticed
| the issue.
| onion2k wrote:
| It might be the case that the psychological process here is
| that making a conscious change to your lifestyle makes you
| happier and less anxious (temporarily?). If so then the same is
| true of _literally anything_.
| awsrocks wrote:
| lostcolony wrote:
| Sure. But in the same way that 24 hour news networks are an
| obvious detriment compared to brief half hour or hour long
| "evening news" programs, social media's patterns to keep you
| engaged are also a detriment compared with, say, a quick text
| to the people you care about checking in. There's a real
| positive buried in there, but the financial incentive to
| capture eyeballs turns it into a negative.
| fastball wrote:
| > obvious detriment compared to brief half hour or hour long
| "evening news"
|
| This is not obvious to me personally. I don't think it
| matters how much you consume the news as much as it matters
| what the news _is_.
|
| And the news these days is almost entirely negative, even in
| a half-hour-long evening news segment.
| Maximus9000 wrote:
| I disagree. This article talks about this
|
| "Studies have linked poor mental health to news exposure
| during negative and traumatic events such as terrorist
| attacks or natural disasters; the more news a person
| consumes during and after these events, the more likely
| they are to suffer from depression, stress and anxiety. For
| example, a 2014 study surveyed 4,675 Americans in the weeks
| following the Boston Marathon bombings and collected data
| on how much media they consumed. Participants who engaged
| with more than six hours of media coverage per day were
| nine times more likely to also experience symptoms of high
| acute stress than those who only watched a minimal amount
| of news."
|
| https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/science-
| doomscrolling/stor...
| lostcolony wrote:
| The news has always been "almost entirely negative", even
| when the only source was newspapers. But being informed of
| what's going on, vs being clueless; there's a societal
| benefit in having an informed citizenry.
|
| This does presume that that half hour or hour is not a
| purely editorial function (think Walter Cronkite vs Tucker
| Carlson), and that the goal is to actually cover the news
| of the world, not create partisan wedges and glue eyeballs
| (again, same comparison). But even if it's negative,
| understanding what is going on matters, and is likely a net
| gain for society, with a minimal individual cost.
|
| What isn't a net gain is being so consumed by world events
| (or worse, editorialized versions of world events) that you
| lose sight on your personal world, and are unable to enjoy
| the moments around you. A similar effect is at play with
| social media.
| karaterobot wrote:
| You hear this kind of equivalence made a lot: social media is
| no different than the newspaper, or the TV news. This never
| made sense to me. Obviously, some characteristic of social
| media persuaded people to drop their newspapers and turn of
| their televisions to use their phones instead. There must be
| something qualitatively different about social media on mobile
| devices that explains this.
|
| The difference may be that it is better and more enlightening,
| or it may be that it is more addictive and intrusive. But, it
| is not the same.
| jatins wrote:
| That seems like a silly argument. "They are bad hence us being
| bad is okay"
| randomsearch wrote:
| That appears to be a disingenuous argument.
|
| Firstly, traditional news media's intrusion is not as severe or
| wide ranging. To give one example, the surge in teenage mental
| health problems that Facebook and Instagram in particular seem
| likely to have caused.
|
| Second, there is a very large qualitative difference between
| social media and traditional media. Social media is monitoring
| your every action, and adapting to it, and creates a tight
| feedback loop where you are manipulated into staying engaged
| and consuming more adverts. That personalised real-time
| feedback loop, based on giant datasets that are very invasive,
| is incomparable to traditional media.
|
| Finally, the extent of attention capture by social media cannot
| be compared to traditional media. This can be observed by
| simply taking a walk down the high street and seeing how many
| people are staring at their phones. Traditional media do use
| apps as a medium, but there aren't many people who would
| seriously argue that most of those glued to their screens are
| likely to be reading an online newspaper and not looking at
| Instagram, Twitter, or TikTok.
|
| The only doubt I have is whether Zuckerberg actually believes
| what's he saying, in order to have a clean conscience, or
| whether it's a cynical argument used to reassure his staff.
| sshine wrote:
| > Social media is monitoring your every action, and adapting
| to it, and creates a tight feedback loop where you are
| manipulated into staying engaged and consuming more adverts.
| That personalised real-time feedback loop, based on giant
| datasets that are very invasive, is incomparable to
| traditional media.
|
| I just want to add here that YouTube, while not exactly a
| social medium and not a traditional medium, also has a tight
| and instantly adaptive feedback loop. With this argument,
| staying off YouTube should be similarly relieving than
| staying off at least TikTok. At least, the hours you can
| waste are comparable.
| the_gipsy wrote:
| Youtube is considered social media. If you only go there
| once a month to watch some informative video, then
| obviously not.
| zwilliamson wrote:
| Cal Newport's time-block planner saved my career. At the
| beginning of the pandemic I was struggling to focus at work, like
| many others. His time-block planner got me back into action and
| feeling more productive.
|
| https://www.timeblockplanner.com
|
| This video covers how the planner works:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eff9h1WYxSo
|
| I love the quick "Shutdown" routine at the end of each day, so I
| can easily switch back to life outside of work without dragging
| work thoughts with me.
| Hamuko wrote:
| I feel like most of my anxiety has nothing to do with social
| media, so I'm not so sure if I'd feel better just because I
| stopped reading Twitter.
| yogini wrote:
| It's a great article!
|
| What I think is, it's the comparison and less focus span, that
| leads us anxious. Though social media has a role to play in this.
| We also have to accept the fact that it has become a part of our
| lives, so understanding the core of problems we face would work
| in long run.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| The only time social media makes me happier and less anxious is
| when I'm creating, not consuming. I've consumed digital media and
| social media for majority of my life as I grew up as 56k(dial-up)
| & cable became mainstream as I approached teens.
|
| It makes me sad to reflect upon my life mostly being a comparison
| to different images online of how others live their often
| "fictional" lives and how mimetic desire had me wanting what they
| have although it didn't actually make me "happier" when I did in
| fact obtain those things in life.
|
| I think this problem is a very personal one. I think everyone has
| a love/hate relationship with social media and only you know how
| to find the balance that is "just right" for you. While I am
| grateful for my generation to have not had such an attachment to
| technology and devices (i'm only 30), I do hope that the newer
| generations can find peace with the similar challenges of being
| addicted to digital media/social media/the internet from an early
| age into adulthood.
| minroot wrote:
| Social media doesn't affect my mental health. I use social media
| (e.g. Twitter) to get information on what my peers and the people
| whose work am interested in are doing. They don't post a lot, but
| when they do it's worth reading nearly always. I visit it 2 or 3
| times a week
| is-is-odd wrote:
| Good for you?
| hackernewds wrote:
| Good that it doesn't in moderation. But what you're implying is
| anecdata, and better phrased that you do not have evidence if
| social media affects your health - since you don't use it as
| often. Bit pedantic, but important to state as not being
| counterpoint to the article presented in context :)
| MomciloM wrote:
| Deleted Facebook 2 years ago, Instagram 1 year ago. The only
| social media account I have today is on Twitter and I am thinking
| about deleting that one.
|
| It is true that you can feel a bit isolated from everyone, but it
| pushes you to go out with people and ask them what have they been
| up to, send them a message etc. I find the time spent on that
| much more valuable than the time spent on social media. While it
| is true that you can get up to what people are doing, I found
| that I spend the least amount of time getting up to date" with
| people I know and much more just scrolling through and
| "exploring" on all of these social media sites.
|
| If you feel similar, I highly recommend you to delete any of the
| social media apps.
| philip1209 wrote:
| I've been off of social media for about two years, and I haven't
| looked back. But, I've realized that it's been harder to stay in
| touch with people.
|
| I think the answer is that personal newsletters will make a
| comeback. Even digital minimalists like Cal Newport have one!
| Without viral dynamics or an algorithmic feed, a good email seems
| to be the calmest way to stay in touch.
|
| I've played around with tools like Substack, Revue, and
| Convertkit for maintaining a personal newsletter - but none of
| them fulfilled my needs. Blogs are so permanent - newsletters
| should be light and easy, and not loaded with growth hacker
| tools.
|
| So, my project is Postcard - a personal newsletter software
| designed to replace social media: https://postcard.page
|
| It's still in the early days - but I'll trade free lifetime
| access for feedback - just email me.
| deepstack wrote:
| Being off almost 10 years, life got significantly better and
| more interesting. Also stop using smart phone, or only use
| smart phone in airplane mode most of time. That also helped
| alot!
| MisterTea wrote:
| > But, I've realized that it's been harder to stay in touch
| with people.
|
| The people I was in contact with before social media are still
| in contact with me via phone, text, chat, email, etc. Most of
| my social media "friends" were connections and acquaintances. I
| was never really in contact with those people so nothing was
| lost when I deleted my social media accounts.
|
| If they don't make an effort to talk to you then they aren't
| that interested in a relation/friendship and not worth worrying
| about.
| criddell wrote:
| > I've been off of social media for about two years, and I
| haven't looked back.
|
| I would consider this place to be a social media site.
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