[HN Gopher] A Minsky moment for venture capital?
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       A Minsky moment for venture capital?
        
       Author : simonebrunozzi
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2022-05-14 17:57 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ft.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com)
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | This is just a summary of the substack post, which was discussed
       | on HN at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30413865
        
         | ldayley wrote:
         | I'm re-reading this post now and Wow(!) does that Tiger Capital
         | link resonate differently today (it lost $20 Billion, nearly
         | half it's value, from Dec-Mar 2022)
        
         | diordiderot wrote:
         | The substack post was a great read. I feel like it must be
         | around two years old now
        
           | georgeecollins wrote:
           | 85 days. I can't tell if you didn't remember or you are
           | saying it felt like longer because so much has happened. The
           | IPO window has been closed for more than 85 days for sure.
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | There are still companies preparing listings.
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/5hdew
        
       | TameAntelope wrote:
       | Womp. Guess I'll be looking for a job in a few months!
       | 
       | A shame, we had a decent idea, but haven't found our fit quite
       | yet, and with sales cycles in our area being relatively long, not
       | really a lot of opportunity to turn things around and self-
       | sustain in time to react to the sudden market shift.
       | 
       | Kind of funny, really, how all this ended up. One crazy guy in
       | Russia and now I have to look for a job.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | The raised US lending interest rates are only partially caused
         | by the crazy guy in Russia. And would probably happen anyway
         | without his help.
        
         | datalopers wrote:
         | This bubble popped in November. The aspect that devs are
         | broadly overlooking still is the abundance of high-paying easy
         | to attain jobs. Those are going to disappear, too. It'll take a
         | year though.
        
           | randomopining wrote:
           | Why?
        
         | jdmoreira wrote:
         | I highly doubt this is Putin's fault. This is a sentiment
         | problem. The tide has changed basically. Positive feedback
         | loops get replaced by negative feedback loops. From mania to
         | depression.
         | 
         | It's a tale as old as the markets.
        
           | jeffreyrogers wrote:
           | The rise in energy prices was obviously going to happen in
           | 2020 (when it was clear lockdowns were leading to reduced oil
           | production). Couple that with recent policy in the US and
           | Europe disincentivizing oil/gas exploration and Russia's
           | actions in Ukraine and you've got a recipe for making a bad
           | situation worse.
        
       | kache_ wrote:
       | No alpha left in making asymmetric bets. Mostly because a lot of
       | people can make those asymmetric bets, because everyone has
       | money, which makes it lose its asymmetry
       | 
       | https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Alpha%20left
        
         | brockwhittaker wrote:
         | +1, lest we forget the original premise behind VC returns was
         | that seed checks had huge returns because most people weren't
         | willing to take on the risk, timeline or probability
         | distribution of funding startups. Now everyone is willing to,
         | so that arb is gone.
        
           | searchableguy wrote:
           | Are VCs taking risk though?
           | 
           | At least in India, most of the venture capital startups are
           | copies of existing products but with discounts and rewards
           | attached through VC investments.
           | 
           | The timeframe for return on investments is too low for any
           | risky bets. You aren't going to end up cashing out deep tech
           | in few years.
        
             | cmrdporcupine wrote:
             | Related, maybe tangentially; I'm seeing lots and lots of
             | startups whose basis seems to be "we build X <tool/SDK/API>
             | technology as a service." Data management or transformation
             | stuff. Packages for doing X in the cloud. Analytical
             | libraries. Not products, but infrastructure.
             | 
             | On one level I'm very pleased to see this stuff funded,
             | because it wasn't really 10-15 years ago.
             | 
             | On the other hand, what worries me here is that this stuff
             | is entirely secondary and subservient to other services,
             | its potential revenue completely depends on the success of
             | businesses further up the food chain. And if things start
             | to really slow down, I worry these will be the first to
             | suffer and a lot of these startups (which seem to be hiring
             | for a lot of the interesting work) will shutdown.
        
               | blip54321 wrote:
               | Personally, I feel like there are too many dollars and
               | startups in this space now.
               | 
               | I feel like the risk profile is such that I'd never buy
               | most of the products being built. I don't want core
               | business infrastructure sitting in the cloud of a startup
               | which might not exist tomorrow due to missing a VC round
               | or an agile pivot. I also don't want an integration of 50
               | different cloud services.
               | 
               | I'm glad to use established open-source technologies.
               | I'll also use AWS or similar big players if open source
               | doesn't exist. However, most of the niche proprietary
               | startups just don't make much sense here to me. I'd
               | invest a lot of money and take on a lot of risk.
               | 
               | I do feel like there is big money in value-adds: hosting
               | open-source solutions, consulting, etc. A lot of non-tech
               | companies are struggling with data, ML, and
               | visualizations.
               | 
               | There's a feedback loop here. Once these startups start
               | shutting down, the above problem will be recognized,
               | cascading their collapse.
        
               | cmrdporcupine wrote:
               | Yeah I think there's wisdom to what you're saying.
               | 
               | I do think there was a deficit before that this wave of
               | stuff is working to remedy. In the mid-2000s, companies
               | like Google and Amazon had a competitive advantage
               | because they had the inhouse talent and $$ to build e.g.
               | Bigtable, MapReduce, Dremel, Borg, etc. before anybody
               | else had those tools. Then there was an awkward few years
               | (early - mid 2010s) where everyone and their dog was
               | trying to clone those in the open source space. And now
               | we're in a situation where there's startups whose whole
               | business model is structured around providing "big data"
               | or "data transformation" etc. tools etc. They look like
               | compelling places to work, on account of the interesting
               | work they do, but I worry about their viability.
        
       | anm89 wrote:
       | I don't really care about this but:
       | 
       | I've got this friend, he's a really good guy, a stupidly hard
       | worker, maybe a little naive from my opinion in that he doesn't
       | question mainstream narratives a lot but obviously very
       | intelligent. He has busted his ass for years. He has a PhD in
       | Genetics, and an Mba and finally in his late 30s is stepping out
       | from making 35k a year as a post doc to go work at a Bio tech
       | focused VC.
       | 
       | I think he's going to get beat down the first time he sticks his
       | neck out and it sucks to watch.
       | 
       | No idea why I'm saying this. Maybe the takeaway is that this
       | stuff affects people you wouldn't expect.
        
       | mattwest wrote:
       | This article focuses on returns of VC investment. Nothing wrong
       | with that except it doesn't mean VC is going to tank. The nature
       | of VC generally means a hyper focus of thematic investment. The
       | market has everchanging needs and demands. I expect the direction
       | of VC is changing its focus (already is) toward climate, food,
       | and lifestyle health. VC firms may be cutting back on tech-tech,
       | but they are increasing their contributions toward the topics I
       | listed above.
        
         | jeffreyrogers wrote:
         | VC returns to software were high because software has high
         | fixed costs, low marginal costs. So the tradeoff was fund a
         | team long enough to get profitable and grow fast and then you
         | get a big return. That's not true of climate, food, or
         | lifestyle health in general (specific companies/business models
         | may be exceptions).
        
           | mattwest wrote:
           | Thanks, that's a good point. I agree with climate and
           | lifestyle health, especially considering marginal costs. I
           | think food and ag tech will surprise us though. Besides, VC
           | firms have been rapidly increasing funds toward food and ag
           | tech for the past few years, so they decided one way or
           | another that it is worth it.
        
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