[HN Gopher] In search of organic software
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       In search of organic software
        
       Author : pketh
       Score  : 53 points
       Date   : 2022-05-16 11:38 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pketh.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pketh.org)
        
       | albertgoeswoof wrote:
       | I'm in a similar boat with https://mailpace.com
       | 
       | No funding, just a simple business that I enjoy building.
       | 
       | If you create great software that delights your users, what more
       | do you need?
        
         | kaba0 wrote:
         | Very nice landing page and product.
         | 
         | Can't help but ask, do you really not have an API for Java?
         | Just seems strange that much smaller languages have example
         | codes, yet such a behemoth doesn't.
        
           | albertgoeswoof wrote:
           | We don't have a Java library, yet, to be honest I haven't
           | worked with Java in 10 years. But we'll build one soon, watch
           | this space!
        
       | altdataseller wrote:
       | "I'm open to the idea of selling ~5-10% equity in Kinopio for to
       | live a smoother life right now."
       | 
       | And what would we get in exchange for that equity? Would you have
       | a plan to give dividends to equity holders?
        
         | pketh wrote:
         | yup that'd be one good option, I'm sure there are others as
         | well.
         | 
         | I think fundamentally rethinking the default assumption of
         | investment models from taking many risky bets on 20x-100x
         | return, to taking less risky/more-informed bets on 2-4x returns
         | may also be something to look at
        
           | mathgladiator wrote:
           | I'm a fan of dividend model. All I really care about is my
           | 8%. Although, with inflation, this will change.
        
           | joshmarinacci wrote:
           | Something more like the dividend model would be interesting
           | to me. I'd be willing to do some small scale funding like
           | that.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | This is what, in the UK, is called a "nice little earner".
        
       | jabo wrote:
       | One trait I've seen in "non-organic" software is the use of the
       | Enterprise SaaS playbook.
       | 
       | Start bottoms up, give away free or low/no margin services, gain
       | adoption, capture the market, then with the pressure to grow,
       | they start moving upmarket, go after 100K+ deals and raise
       | prices, and eventually price out / fire vast chunks of their
       | early adopters.
       | 
       | Been personally bit by this a few times, so these days I tend to
       | very cautious about adopting non-organic software, at least not
       | without a backup plan.
       | 
       | I'm a founder myself and this is one big concern I have about
       | raising VC funds. Wrote about this here recently:
       | https://typesense.org/blog/why-we-are-not-raising-funds/
       | 
       | I've also started to use the term customer-funded (similar to VC-
       | funded), instead of "bootstrapped", since the latter seems to
       | give off an impression of early stage whereas the former is a
       | conscious choice and state of being.
        
         | pketh wrote:
         | > these days I tend to very cautious about adopting non-organic
         | software
         | 
         | I've noticed the same thing happening to myself and hope to
         | avoid a future where consumers only feel like they can
         | trust/adopt software developed by FAANG type companies)
         | 
         | Really great blog post and 'Customer-funded' is a really good
         | term. I agree, much better than bootstrapped
         | 
         | UPDATE: read even more of your posts/product page... if/when I
         | add full data search to kinopio, I'll be looking at typesense
         | first :)
        
           | jabo wrote:
           | > UPDATE:...
           | 
           | Let me know when you do!
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | polote wrote:
         | This is clearly not the enterprise playbook. The enterprise
         | playbook is to sell on slides, iterate with a few customers and
         | go after even bigger customers.
         | 
         | Start small and trying to go upmarket is the normal playbook
         | for a b2b smb company that is not growing anymore. Managing
         | enterprise customers is easier than managing thousands or small
         | companies. And it also create a natural barrier to entry
        
           | jabo wrote:
           | > The enterprise playbook is to sell on slides, iterate with
           | a few customers and go after even bigger customers.
           | 
           | I would call this product discovery and development with
           | early adopters, something I hope every startup is doing. I've
           | also seen this be called a Lighthouse program.
           | 
           | > Managing enterprise customers is easier than managing
           | thousands or small companies. And it also create a natural
           | barrier to entry
           | 
           | I definitely get the appeal. To build a billion dollar
           | revenue (not valuation) venture scale company, you can either
           | get 1000 users paying you 1M dollars each, or 1M users paying
           | you $1000 each [1].
           | 
           | It's just painful as a relative early customer to get priced
           | out and no longer be the target market for a company,
           | especially when it has set its eyes on exponential growth and
           | starts to see the SMB market as a means to an end.
           | 
           | [1] https://christophjanz.blogspot.com/2014/10/five-ways-to-
           | buil...
        
       | mathgladiator wrote:
       | I love this, and you can consider Adama as organic (
       | https://www.adama-platform.com ).
       | 
       | Basically, I'm retired and focused on building up a few products.
       | My first step is a deep-deep investment in a back-end superpower.
       | I'm wandering with no real user-focused goals, and the key reason
       | it is early access is that I want to get some feedback. I am
       | slowly working on a few improvements and building a roadmap for
       | some neat things that I want to try, but I'm enjoying life now
       | (and recovering physically).
       | 
       | I'm tinkering with my next step which is a new reactive front-end
       | template system which binds to my super back-end. I have a few
       | theories about getting user value since I am basically do 3-5
       | start-ups in one.
       | 
       | Appreciate the write up, and I'll integrate some of the language
       | in how I present my "organic" software.
        
         | pketh wrote:
         | we don't talk about this enough, or ever, but being retired and
         | building software is kind of like a super power in this case
        
       | UnchartedSystem wrote:
       | just wanted to say the actual mind mapping tool the author is
       | building has is a stylish and cozy piece of software. The wii
       | shop music remix attached to the pricing card made me grin.
        
         | pketh wrote:
         | thanks I never know how much to self promote on HN :)
         | 
         | if anyone else is looking for the mind-mapping software I
         | build, it's at https://kinopio.club and there's no sign up
         | required to use it
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I write "organic" software.
       | 
       | In today's software industry, people not only don't care about
       | Quality; they are actively hostile towards it. It almost seems to
       | be a race to the bottom.
       | 
       | If it isn't scaled into millions of users, billions of dollars,
       | or gigantic numbers of GH stars, then it's not worth anything,
       | and anyone that works in a way that treats software development
       | as a craft, is treated in a rather shabby fashion.
       | 
       | I don't particularly care (anymore), but I probably would, if I
       | were trying to make money. It used to make me rather upset, but
       | these days, I'm more amused, than anything else.
        
       | forgotmypw17 wrote:
       | I've chosen to develop my software as removed from the financial
       | world as possible. I volunteer my time to work on it, and it
       | receives only non-financial support for the most part. The only
       | exception I've made is paying for web hosting, which is only a
       | few hundred a year.
        
         | pketh wrote:
         | I did this a couple times before building and focusing on
         | kinopio.club full time. In my own personal experience,
         | volunteering only worked with side-projects. If you can do more
         | through volunteering effort that's very impressive.
        
       | ozten wrote:
       | I think your vision aligns with some of the new bootstraping-
       | friendly funding options like: TinySeed[1], CalmFund[2],
       | Indie.vc, Earnest Captiol, etc.
       | 
       | https://tinyseed.com/
       | 
       | https://calmfund.com/
        
         | pketh wrote:
         | Thanks ozten, ya I agree these both sound interesting and I'll
         | investigate more
        
       | drewcoo wrote:
       | Software that "grows organically" is usually used derisively, as
       | opposed to software that was actually designed.
        
         | pketh wrote:
         | The 'organic' term here is referring to funding, not design.
         | That said 'paving the cow paths' can be a very effective way to
         | build/design what people want.
         | 
         | Another post of mine addresses this directly:
         | https://pketh.org/how-i-build.html
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-05-16 23:01 UTC)