[HN Gopher] VoCore - Coin-Sized Linux Computer
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VoCore - Coin-Sized Linux Computer
Author : cbzbc
Score : 165 points
Date : 2022-05-16 10:35 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (vocore.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (vocore.io)
| the_biot wrote:
| Vocore2 is the only time I've ever been ripped off on a
| crowdfunding project. Not impressed.
| techwizrd wrote:
| Can you provide more details around this? I was interested in
| this, but now I'm hesitant.
| the_biot wrote:
| The board never arrived. At some point (after months) I asked
| them about it, and they said it had been returned to them due
| to not deliverable. When I asked them to send it out again,
| they demanded extra money for postage. The amount they wanted
| was more than the board originally _cost_ , which had
| shipping included.
|
| Tried to reason with them, but they would not budge and got
| pretty rude about it; they wanted money. So I will never buy
| anything from them again.
| braingenious wrote:
| These are super cool! Does anyone here actually use one of these
| for anything?
|
| I'm always tempted to get one of these sorts of things but I can
| never think of an actual real-world use that I'd need.
| oneplane wrote:
| Keep in mind that tiny ~550 MHz, MIPS 24K core based boards have
| been around for a while, including OpenWRT support. They are not
| as powerful as one might like, and with performance lower than a
| Pi 1 (and a lack of accelerators), you might be better off
| getting more recent ARM based stamp-sized SBC for the same price.
|
| What is interesting about this one is that it has reasonable
| documentation for a change (but not about the MediaTek SoC) and
| they might actually be able to move volume on both their main
| device and extension boards.
| mkl wrote:
| > you might be better off getting more recent ARM based stamp-
| sized SBC for the same price.
|
| Can you suggest any examples?
| rcoder wrote:
| FriendlyElec has a range of boards under their NanoPi brand
| that might fit:
|
| https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/categor.
| ..
|
| The NEO Air in particular is a very compact board using an
| Allwinner chip, which works pretty well under Linux including
| such niceties as support for the integrated power management
| chip.
|
| I also recently got a couple of the Space Cats Jeter Nano
| boards. They're more on par with the VoCore, performance-
| wise, but with a lot of GPIOs on more hobbyist-friendly
| (read: breadboard-ready) connectors.
| nine_k wrote:
| The Nano Pi looks 5-6x as expensive, and quite noticeably
| larger and heavier.
|
| _Much_ more powerful though.
| rcoder wrote:
| I'm not sure which NanoPi you're looking at; the Core Air
| is not quite 2x the price ($32 vs. $18) of the VoCore and
| only a bit wider/longer, and similarly thin. Also, as you
| mention it's in an entirely different class w.r.t.
| performance, if a bit power-hungry compared to newer SoC
| designs.
|
| Neither one is going to compete with a cheap Atmel or
| RISC-V MCU in cost, but on the flip side the NEO Core et.
| al. can run a web server, Docker containers, or a NodeJS
| app under modest load vs. needing everything rewritten in
| very tightly-managed C. :)
| nine_k wrote:
| Hmm, I somehow ended up on a page showing a Neo Pi for
| $55.
| oneplane wrote:
| Any AllWinner H3 for example (i.e. first hit at Aliexpress:
| https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/10000299302152.html) or
| something like a Sipeed Lichee Nano if you want to go
| smaller. (https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4001150568609.html)
|
| For a significant performance increase, but at a larger size
| (still very small):
| https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/10000379696950.html
|
| Most of the RockChip/AllWinner/MediaTek type things are China
| ODM anyway, and besides some middleman-markup the SDKs and
| reference designs are all the same across the board.
|
| If you want a product that is going to last a little longer
| and is a bit more useful beyond the basic physical specs
| (like size and I/O), you'll also want to know what bootrom,
| bootloader, devicetree and register documentation is
| available. Native in-tree Linux kernel support would be a
| must as well. At that point you can essentially boot any
| (low-footprint) distro forever until SoC support is dropped
| from the kernel (which takes a really long time if the SoC is
| still in use).
|
| --
|
| Updating mostly for my own peace of mind: like most Chinese
| native manufacturers, they (the SoC manufacturers) generally
| don't give a crap about other companies, rights or long-term
| sustainability. I would suspect this is mostly
| cultural/political and a bit of 'eat or be eaten', not some
| dunk in the style of "country bad, people bad". This doesn't
| mean that therefore nobody should use any products anywhere
| forever, but like the sunxi community for Linux support
| (https://linux-sunxi.org/Main_Page) you might need to find
| out if there is enough knowledge and willingness available to
| you to actually be able to make good use of the products
| listed. This is why the Pi is so successful, the SoC is fine
| but Broadcom doesn't allow any public information on how it
| works and how to program for it; the community and the
| foundation around the Pi make it possible to make it work
| long-term regardless, and for any AllWinner/MediaTek/RockChip
| you'll want to select your parts in a way that gets you a
| similarly useful ecosystem. Buying a cheap thing and getting
| an Hello World out of it today is easy, getting a product
| that doesn't turn into e-waste in a year is a lot harder.
| depingus wrote:
| I recently went down the rabbit hole with these tiny ARM
| devices. For anyone else looking at them, I found the best
| place to start is to pick a chip with full Linux mainline
| support.
|
| https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort
|
| Right now, the latest devices have new chips that aren't
| supported yet. So if you get one of those, you're stuck
| using the manufacturer's Linux distro. If you get an older
| chip with mainline support, you can run a 3rd party distro
| like Armbian.
|
| https://www.armbian.com/
| oneplane wrote:
| Ah yes, mainline support was the more condensed
| description I was after! That is indeed where it's at; if
| you are stuck with out-of-tree or vendor binary-only
| distribution, you're screwed.
|
| It can be a bit of a hassle if all you have is something
| like "926EJS" as supported core instead of the SoC name
| "F1C100s", but either way, browse the linux kernel for
| support for your SoC to at least get a feel for its
| support status. If a (compiled) device tree for the SBC
| is available and the bootrom is either super small or
| open/free/libre, you can expect good integration and long
| life out of the device.
|
| Even in the worst case you'll be able to follow generic
| buildroot or yocto instructions to get it running with
| up-to-date software.
| zokier wrote:
| RockPi S is one of the smaller boards around, albeit still
| quite significantly bigger than vocore (1" vs 1.7" square)
| squarefoot wrote:
| As others suggested, FriendlyElec has some good offers, then
| there are the Orange Pi boards (some of which very similar to
| the FriendlyElec ones to the point they can boot the same
| image without modifications). Also take a look at Hardkernel
| and Pine64 boards; the Rock64-2GB may seem more costly at
| $34.95, but actually is a lot cheaper since it integrates all
| peripherals and connectors that would be optional on the
| VoCore2, aside being a lot more powerful. Also take a look at
| Armbian for a very well supported Debian-Like OS: many
| manufacturers cease their support for their boards once the
| newer models are out, while Armbian and DietPi support a lot
| of models, including old ones, and are well worth helping
| with a donation.
|
| https://www.friendlyelec.com/index.php?route=product/categor.
| ..
|
| http://www.orangepi.org/
|
| https://pine64.com/product/rock64-2gb-single-board-computer/
|
| https://www.hardkernel.com/
|
| https://www.armbian.com/download/?device_support=Supported
|
| https://dietpi.com/#download
| zokier wrote:
| Something like rock64 is completely different class, being
| 6x larger than vocore
| dark-star wrote:
| The VoCore is from 2014 (VoCore 1) or 2016 (VoCore 2), of
| course there are faster SoCs out there _now_...
| oneplane wrote:
| H1, H2 and H3 are also from <2014, they were faster then and
| they are faster now. But speed isn't the only factor. MIPS
| 24K is dead.
|
| Example: https://linux-sunxi.org/H3
|
| On the other hand, between then and new many things have
| changed, yet this VoCore submission is only 8 hours old.
| Seems like a good idea to point out that it's not the newest,
| shiniest thing everyone should flock to just because it's on
| HN.
| franga2000 wrote:
| This is really cool and I really want one, even though I have no
| use for it
| wiz21c wrote:
| Reminds me of my 3 RaspberryPI's :-)
| Damogran6 wrote:
| RPi's are like lottery tickets. You buy them for the license
| to dream it gives you. They're potential.
| catern wrote:
| They're really just a sign of how weak general purpose
| computing has become. Almost all uses of Raspberry Pis for
| hobbyist projects could and should be done just as well
| with the computers that you already own and already have
| running.
| _joel wrote:
| Not sure my main PC can run at 2 Amps..
| mciancia wrote:
| Well, seeing that most desktop PCs are running at 110V or
| 230V, I think it's quite easy to find something that will
| run under ~220W or ~460W ;]
| joshspankit wrote:
| You are technically correct
|
| :b
| tambourine_man wrote:
| Parent probably meant 10W (5V x 2A)
| _joel wrote:
| I did ;)
| catern wrote:
| The marginal extra energy consumption of running more
| stuff on your main PC is likely less than 2 amps.
| _joel wrote:
| Then I'd need to run my PC 24/7 with no sleeping, to
| serve something so miniscule like DNS records from
| PiHole, just taking one example, to provide service for
| all the stuff in my front room and my pocket.
| catern wrote:
| I'm glad you mentioned PiHole because it's exactly the
| kind of thing I'm talking about.
|
| Dedicating a Raspberry Pi to running a DNS server is
| silly.
|
| You could run it on your wifi router instead, or you
| could run it on the individual nodes. Either of those
| _should_ be extremely easy. But practical general purpose
| computing has decayed (or was never really there?) so
| instead there 's this silly PiHole thing where you just
| buy yet another computer and convert it into yet another
| special-purpose appliance because general purpose
| computing is so hard.
| Majromax wrote:
| I think you're conflating 'general purpose computing'
| with multitasking or multifunction devices.
|
| PiHole exists precisely because the Pi is a general-
| purpose computing device: it uses a relatively stock
| operating system and network stack to perform its task.
| Its competition here is not a desktop computer, it's a
| bespoke network appliance with custom hardware/firmware
| manufactured by somebody like Cisco.
|
| What you lament is that so many of our "PC" systems seem
| to have wasted processing potential, but I think this is
| optimizing along the wrong axis. Sure, my desktop PC
| could run a home DNS server without breaking a sweat, but
| my desktop PC is not on all the time. Even the idle power
| draw from the ATX power supply likely outweighs the full-
| throttle power usage of a Pi-equivalent device.
|
| Home computing (PiHoles, routers, and "smart home"
| devices) are a devolution of computing to commodity
| status in the same way that the PC was a devolution away
| from a mainframe-and-terminal environment. I think
| further progression along this axis is inevitable, and we
| should welcome entries like the Pi or this VoCore that
| keep the ethic of hackable, general-purpose computing
| even in a commodity footprint.
| catern wrote:
| >What you lament is that so many of our "PC" systems seem
| to have wasted processing potential
|
| That's not my lament. I don't care at all about not
| wasting processing power.
|
| I care about the fact that it's so difficult for people
| to use their existing computers in ways that were not
| intended by their manufacturers, that even technically
| adept people will just buy a new computer rather than
| deal with it.
|
| It _should_ be easy to install some new software on any
| of your computers (router or desktop or TV or phone or
| whatever) and have it do some useful new thing. But it 's
| not.
| Majromax wrote:
| > It should be easy to install some new software on any
| of your computers (router or desktop or TV or phone or
| whatever) and have it do some useful new thing. But it's
| not.
|
| I disagree. I don't think it's difficult for compute-
| related tasks (gpio now, that I'll grant). However,
| installing this sort of think on a desktop PC is more
| likely to be bespoke just because of the near-infinite
| range of user configurations and customizations. The
| PiHole works as well as it does because it's a uniform
| base without being a walled garden.
| _joel wrote:
| No, you can't. You can't load a list big enough in the
| memory provided on a small router and even then only one
| flashed with OpenWRT (or similar). There are lite
| versions but they're incomplete and lack the UI
| facilities and other options PiHole does.
|
| You want me to run a full pihole on my TV, laptop, phone,
| tablet? I have to administer all those and deal with the
| headaches of installation on all of those (if even
| possible in jailed envs).
|
| You say it _should_ be easy, have you ever done it?
|
| Who says I'm just running a pihole on that too, you're
| making a hell of a lot of assumptions here. It's a media
| server, ssh bouncer, tailscale node and a lot more.
| catern wrote:
| Why do you have such an underpowered wifi router running
| proprietary software you can't modify? Because it is a
| general purpose computer that has been reduced to the
| status of an appliance.
| _joel wrote:
| Again, more assumptions, now it's why don't I have a more
| powerful router when I could be running in (along with a
| load of other stuff) on a Pi.
|
| Firstly not all ISP provided routers are even flashable
| with OpenWRT, so how the hell do you install something on
| there to start with?
|
| I have a hAP.ac from Microtik, I flashed myself by PXE
| booting the OpenWRT images, not an underpowered router in
| the slightest, it just doesn't have enough RAM to load
| the lists needed, as I said. Connection state tables in
| SOHO routers don't need to be large, so why need all the
| RAM, their inteded purpose wasn't soley to run after
| market, home hacked, heavy memory intensive software.
|
| You know, if you'd actually attempted this and had some
| valid point, I could take you seriously, but you seem to
| ignore everything I said, like I run multiple things on
| the Pi, or I'd have to keep the PC on 24/7 and the idle
| draw would be more (electicity is expensive here), or how
| I can just magically install pihole on any router, then
| why is my router not 'powerful' enough.
|
| Yes, I want my router to be an appliance, not something I
| need to curate, like updating my PC or laptop with the
| latest and greatest packages. I want it to be a dumb box
| in the corner (with security patches when needed) but I
| don't want to be messing with it.
|
| I have a Pi to mess around with things I want to run 24/7
| but not take excessive amount of energy in doing so.
| titzer wrote:
| Bah. Most laptops don't have GPIO pins.
| catern wrote:
| But most of them do have USB ports, and:
| https://numato.com/product/8-channel-usb-gpio-module-
| with-an...
| prashnts wrote:
| Cheapest version is 31$. Without internal pullups. Which
| means it's basically gonna bit-bang if you want to
| interface with SPI, I2C etc. I'd consider a raspberry pi
| even if it costs more because it has a _lot_ of I/O
| capabilities and starts at 5$.
|
| For a comparable option, consider one of the Pi-Picos,
| Arduinos with VUSB, or a USB-Serial board with extra
| GPIOS.
| ranger_danger wrote:
| Where are you finding raspberry pi for $5?
| dmytrish wrote:
| I think they meant Raspberry Pi Pico, which is definitely
| not a microcomputer with Linux, but it has plenty of I/O
| pins.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| Got a genuine chuckle out of me. That really is how I feel
| about it. It didn't cost me anything significant, I never
| did anything of value with it, but I don't regret buying
| it. Exact same way I feel about the handful of lottery
| tickets I've bought over the years.
| imtringued wrote:
| That's how hype works. The amusing part is that you can be
| hyped up for something that you already have. There was a
| game I played on PS2 and NDS and then it got ported to PC
| and I was hyped for it and enjoyed it as if I played it for
| the first time.
| vardump wrote:
| 12 here... sigh.
|
| Then again, all of them have had a good amount of use over
| the years. But 10 of them (RPi 1B-3B+) are no longer in use.
|
| Tempted to buy a VoCore, but I won't. It'd most probably just
| join the Raspberry Pis in a drawer.
| cure wrote:
| You could probably donate or sell the older Raspberry
| Pis...
| 8fingerlouie wrote:
| I have a drawer where old SBC's go to die :) It's right
| next to my arduino/micropython boards.
|
| Years ago i ran quite a lot of stuff on a Raspberry Pi, but
| despite them growing more and more capable, my computing
| needs at home have gotten less and less.
|
| I ran a homebuilt surveillance system on them for some
| years, RPi Zeros for the nodes with motion detection, and a
| NAS as a storage target and object detection, but i
| eventually replaced it with UniFi Protect and HomeKit
| Secure Video.
|
| A couple of years ago i still had a couple running
| AdguardHome, but after that got replaced by NextDNS, i have
| only one left, running "power monitoring" and HomeBridge in
| my summerhouse.
| DocTomoe wrote:
| > but despite them growing more and more capable, my
| computing needs at home have gotten less and less.
|
| And still, with my computing needs becoming more
| minimalistic, my RPi3B+ just doesn't deliver.
|
| I'm currently trying to make it run my emacs/cli-based
| workflow somewhat acceptable, but the darn thing can't
| even run a shell without noticeable lag. There is a
| noticeable delay between keyboard entry and things
| showing up every few seconds. Not cool.
| jesuslop wrote:
| What mean duration have you seen?
| vardump wrote:
| None of them have ever broken. Otherwise I've used them
| up until the next model is released. 1B, 2B, 3B, 3B+ and
| now 4B. Plus one zero.
| Syonyk wrote:
| > _But 10 of them (RPi 1B-3B+) are no longer in use._
|
| Sell them. There's basically no supply and very strong
| demand right now, because in addition to hobbyist uses,
| there are a lot of people who have built products that are
| based around Pis and who can't sell their products, because
| they can't get Pis.
|
| Go check eBay prices. 3Bs are selling for $70-$100. The 8GB
| 4s are selling for $150-$200. It's the best time to unload
| them you're ever likely to see for older hardware.
| fullstop wrote:
| I have three of them and they're all in use. The only ones
| not in use are the Pine64 (not well supported anymore) and a
| Jetson Nano. I've been tempted to use the Jetson Nano for
| something like OctoPrint, but it seems like that would be a
| waste of the GPU.
| fmajid wrote:
| I wish PoE were more common as an option to power these SBCs.
| krkoch wrote:
| PoE devices needs an isolation transformer in order to be
| compliant, and it takes quite some real estate. However, so
| does 110V/220V, but i guess we're so used to "hiding" it in a
| wall-wart.
| salzig wrote:
| there is a PoE-Hat addon available, at least.
|
| edit: just realized that you meant other projects.
| [deleted]
| cozzyd wrote:
| No industrial rating, unfortunately.
|
| https://octavosystems.com/octavo_products/osd335x-sm/ is probably
| more interesting for a lot of applications (though maybe not as
| open... but this is the same chipset as the BeagleBoneBlack).
| dark-star wrote:
| I backed both the VoCore 1 and 2 back when they were on
| Kickstarter (or Indiegogo?). They are awesome devices for their
| size, and yes, while there might be newer SOCs out there now, the
| VoCore was from 2014, and the VoCore2 from 2016, there was
| nothing comparable (in price, size and performance) back then.
|
| The guys behind VoCore keep updating their software stack, fixing
| bugs in the Linux WiFi driver. Just read their blog to see the
| level of attention to detail they're putting into their product
| mobilio wrote:
| It's OpenWRT powered!
| nine_k wrote:
| Oh, what an idea: take some battle-tested router hardware, put it
| into the tiniest possible form factor, use the battle-tested
| router-oriented Linux distro. Instant win!
|
| This thing still allows you to wire 4 Ethernet ports, if you feel
| like it. But apparently these pins can be used somehow
| differently, too.
| salzig wrote:
| if it doesn't load:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20220513102852/https://vocore.io...
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(page generated 2022-05-16 23:01 UTC)