[HN Gopher] Framedeck: A Cyberdeck built with the framework main...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Framedeck: A Cyberdeck built with the framework mainboard
        
       Author : modernerd
       Score  : 414 points
       Date   : 2022-05-15 21:07 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | sprkwd wrote:
       | This is certainly an aesthetic I can get behind. Kudos to
       | Framework for supporting things like this.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
       | I think Framework really has something going here with their a la
       | carte approach to laptop sales. People want to tinker and build
       | their own ideas and there is a dearth of options for portable
       | motherboards which are truly modular, versus doing something like
       | gutting a laptop.
       | 
       | They may have stumbled into a nice niche that is all their own. I
       | Hope they lean into it.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | zionic wrote:
        
           | ranger207 wrote:
           | having opinions and running your own website isn't
           | censorship. it's exactly what freedom of speech is there to
           | protect
        
             | bowsamic wrote:
             | Some of the stuff that I see [flagged] [dead], and more
             | importantly, some of the stuff that isn't, is pretty
             | shocking on this site.
        
               | dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
               | It's off-topic grievance peddling. Pretty annoying. Often
               | the larger (HN specific) context is missing when finding
               | these sunk posts.
               | 
               | Conversely even weird or offensive posts that are
               | thoughtful or genuine are perfectly fine I think as long
               | as they are on topic or at least topic adjacent.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | Perfectly fine according to you, but others will
               | disagree. For example I've noticed that those who posts
               | religious messages will be rarely tolerated here, even if
               | they are on topic or insightful
        
               | dkjaudyeqooe wrote:
               | My comment doesn't imply I support bigotry, but is
               | religion on topic? On a tech forum that would likely be a
               | stretch. I think downvoting wouldn't reflect intolerance
               | rather a clash of mentalities: strict rationalism versus
               | whatever religion falls under.
        
               | Cthulhu_ wrote:
               | Free speech absolutionists only stick with their opinion
               | because they don't actually realize what absolute free
               | speech / lack of moderation will look like.
               | 
               | In practice, they want to be offensive and racist on the
               | internet without consequence, for a big audience. "Free
               | speech for me but not for thee".
        
       | AceJohnny2 wrote:
       | If anything, this is a great ad for the flexibility of
       | Framework's mainboard.
        
       | wly_cdgr wrote:
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | hnusersarelame wrote:
        
         | grp000 wrote:
         | I think this project is nostalgia-bait, but it's a good example
         | of what you can do with the framework mainboard.
        
       | jxf wrote:
       | I'd absolutely buy one of these for a kid. This looks like a ton
       | of fun for someone's first computer.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I wonder if it would be a good replacement for the Alphasmart-
         | type machines that are made mostly for writing? A computer that
         | can run for weeks on AA batteries could be useful.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | I can't edit my comment, so I'll add it here: after looking
           | into it more, this Cyberdeck wouldn't be a reasonable
           | replacement for an Alphasmart or even for the original Model
           | 100. It's way too power hungry.
           | 
           | Is there a board out there you could build a machine around
           | that is low power and fanless? Something that could run on a
           | 4 AA batteries for a month? the Tandy machine couldn't make
           | it that long, but we've come a long way since then. Along the
           | way there have been machines from other companies -
           | Alphasmart, Psion, Sharp, Casio, etc...
        
       | jfb wrote:
       | I love be a cyberdeck, but the idea that we'd all be running
       | derivatives of '70s game firmware after _50_ years of putative
       | progress kind of puts lie to Gibson 's futurism, which required a
       | certain panache and optimism to technology that has clearly not
       | come to pass.
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | > ...we'd all be running...
         | 
         | I think this is not an all or nothing sort of present that we
         | live in...and i think maybe there will be some (maybe non-
         | trivial) slice of the computing population who might - at least
         | for some of the time and for some tasks/work - be quite
         | interested in tools like cyberdeck. I have no hard data to
         | support my claim of course, its only my opinion...and in fact
         | my opinion is based on the popularity that i'm seeing with a
         | tiny portion of tech entusiasts more and more interested in
         | things like TUIs, command-line based tools, Gemini protocol and
         | associated Gemini sites for engaging with content, etc. Maybe
         | its just a cycle of 70s/80s computing nostalgia, or maybe its a
         | reaction to the annoying consumer web (the lay web? the
         | layperson web?) and all its bothersome bells and whistles, ads,
         | privacy invasion, etc...?
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | I love the design, but wow, that keyboard is unusable. I know it
       | looks cool but it's going to need so many layers to be practical
       | that it becomes... impractical.
        
         | skyfaller wrote:
         | I admit it's a little small for my tastes at only 36 keys, but
         | I do a lot of typing on an Planck EZ with 47 keys which is only
         | 9 more keys... ok actually that's a significant percentage of
         | the keys, this is ~20% smaller.
         | 
         | I enjoy typing with layers, but I find it annoying when a
         | keyboard gets too different from a normal laptop keyboard
         | because it makes it harder to type on anyone else's computer.
         | This might be a bridge too far for me, but I can see how
         | someone with slightly different preferences / habits from me
         | would love it.
        
           | folkrav wrote:
           | Great board but in retrospect, I do enjoy a dedicated number
           | row, as they get way too often combined in chord shortcuts
           | like Ctrl+Alt+1 to hide them for my usecases. I own a Planck,
           | but in retrospect I should have went with the Preonic. Planck
           | is a little bit much in terms of layer dancing for me, made
           | it work with my Iris which has a number row (on top of the
           | small thumb cluster).
           | 
           | All in all, I still find 40% to be on the annoying to use
           | side. But I really love that those boards even exist in the
           | first place, so many possibilities.
        
         | mcluck wrote:
         | It's about the size of my Ergodox and I only use 2 additional
         | layers for most things
        
           | opan wrote:
           | The ergodox has significantly more keys.
        
         | WesleyLivesay wrote:
         | Maybe 3-4? Once you get used to it you probably save so much
         | time by never having to move your hands.
        
           | rgoulter wrote:
           | I'd say with layouts like this (and, say, the Dvorak keyboard
           | layout), the more significant benefit is comfort rather than
           | speed.
        
         | lytedev wrote:
         | It's only missing the extra pinky column for my preferences (6
         | keys), but I know plenty of programmers who love layouts like
         | this (see CRKBD/Corne 5x3)
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Did I miss the space bar?
        
             | WesleyLivesay wrote:
             | Probably one of the thumb buttons that are dark blue.
        
             | JohnTHaller wrote:
             | And the enter key. I'm betting on key combos for them.
        
               | micromacrofoot wrote:
               | nah usually they're the keys where your thumbs are and
               | aren't hidden behind a layer because they're so commonly
               | used... so the bottom left down arrow is the spacebar and
               | the bottom right up arrow is enter
        
             | mewse wrote:
             | It's pretty common to use one or both of the innermost
             | thumb buttons on the bottom row as the space bar, for this
             | style of keyboard (you often have to learn to partly ignore
             | the labels on the keycaps, when your keyboard is this
             | minimal).
             | 
             | (I use both of the innermost thumb buttons as a space bar
             | on my split keyboard, with the left one also acting as a
             | layer shift which gives me arrow keys on hjkl while holding
             | it down. If you're a vim user, this arrangement becomes
             | second-nature startlingly quickly, I found)
             | 
             | I'm on a 42-key keyboard; two 6x3 halves plus three thumb
             | keys on each side. I would dearly love to try living with a
             | (5x3+3)*2 keyboard for a week but I just can't see how I
             | would replace the outside columns; I just need my tab,
             | shift, control, and quote keys too much, and I'm pretty
             | doubtful about the prospects of putting those keys onto
             | separate layers or otherwise chording them. (backspace and
             | enter are likely to be issues as well, although I could
             | maybe adapt to ctrl-h and ctrl-m for those the same way
             | I've adapted to ctrl-] for escape. And now that I've
             | mentioned it, I could do tab on ctrl-T. So that brings down
             | the number of extra keys I need to just shift, control, and
             | quote. I guess I could do 'shift' with a hold of z or / and
             | a tap of the opposite-side key to be capitalised. Not sure
             | what I'd do about quote or enter, though.)
        
         | regularfry wrote:
         | It's 8 keys less than on my atreus, which I run with 3 layers,
         | not all of which are full. I can see how I'd get there from
         | here.
        
       | nivenkos wrote:
       | A Steam Deck would be an order of magnitude cheaper and more
       | practical.
        
       | x62Bh7948f wrote:
       | I'd sacrifice having a screen for more palmrest space. If I were
       | to use this for terminal-only work, a 65% layout with no
       | trackball would be perfect.
        
       | mindvirus wrote:
       | Oh how I wish laptops had keyboards like that, mechanical or
       | otherwise. Framework is doing great work democratizing higher end
       | computing, had no idea they released their mainboards separately.
       | 
       | Really appreciated the build tour:
       | https://github.com/brickbots/framedeck/blob/main/docs/build_...
        
         | lasersandleds wrote:
         | These guys do a mechanical keyboard on a laptop. similar idea
         | as framework, maybe a bit more raw.
         | 
         | https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform
        
           | ryukafalz wrote:
           | Definitely more raw, but lots more open hardware on the
           | Reform than you'll get from Framework:
           | 
           | https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform
           | 
           | But yes, it's a slow ARM system, so you have to temper your
           | expectations. I've been using mine a bit more lately and
           | enjoying it though. :)
        
           | h-w wrote:
           | Yea this is the real hacker dream machine, I'm always sad
           | framework is getting more love when it's not open hardware or
           | open source.
        
             | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
             | $1500 for a machine which is so underpowered it's hardly
             | anything more than an expensive toy for programmers with
             | too much money. I love the trackball and mechanical
             | keyboard though. Shame it's far too overpriced and
             | underpowered for any kind of daily driver usage.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | I mean, that's literally what it is, an expensive toy for
               | hackers
        
               | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
               | Well, I would give my left nut for a laptop like this
               | that's actually useful though.
               | 
               | But $1500 for a fun weekend project is a disgusting waste
               | of resources that I can't afford. I used to have to live
               | off of less than that for the whole month, so the mere
               | thought of it makes me angry.
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | I don't think the fun of it will last only a weekend, and
               | I don't think you have to get angry at expensive toys.
               | It's more than I would want to pay though.
               | 
               | I currently use the "digital piano" measure of price. My
               | Roland FP-10 + stand cost me around 500 euros, and that
               | is going to bring me many hours of practise and interest.
               | I don't think it's likely that this laptop will beat
               | that, so it's not great value. I don't think it's really
               | terrible though
        
               | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
               | I really don't think it would last more than a weekend.
               | If I can't use this thing for anything peoductive, why is
               | it even in a portable form factor? If I wanted to tinker
               | with computationally cheap software on the go, any shitty
               | laptop from 10 years ago would be fine. If the only thing
               | I want is tinker with hardware, that's only gonna happen
               | at home anyway, might as well just get a raspberry pi. I
               | just don't see a point of this being portable with such
               | weak components, at that price.
               | 
               | It's my dream laptop form factor with useless hardware in
               | it. Just too good to be true I guess. Maybe someone will
               | make a board with a real computer for it, fingers crossed
        
               | bowsamic wrote:
               | I know a few people whose main hobby for many years has
               | been fiddling with their Linux distribution, so I can see
               | it lasting a long time for people like that
        
               | opan wrote:
               | The SoM can be swapped out, and other ones are in
               | development. The ability to just slot in 18650s for the
               | battery means it could outlast most other laptops (as a
               | portable machine) as well.
        
         | goodpoint wrote:
         | > democratizing higher end computing
         | 
         | Framework's PCBs and schematics are proprietary and patented.
         | 
         | It's just a proprietary laptop with some parts made easier to
         | replace.
         | 
         | If you are referring to the price - they are not exceptionally
         | cheap.
        
           | nani8ot wrote:
           | They don't design PCB's completely themselves. Usually these
           | designs are created with the actual manufacturer, which don't
           | allow open sourcing of their designs.
           | 
           | Framework is not perfect, but they come way closer than other
           | companies. Not even companies like System76, which are open
           | source focused, are able to go that far (they use Clevos with
           | Intel ME largely disabled).
        
             | goodpoint wrote:
             | How is this "democratizing higher end computing"?
        
       | sowbug wrote:
       | With the other DIY Framework machine on HN earlier today[1], is
       | anyone maintaining a list of such Framework projects?
       | 
       | 1 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31387055
        
         | junaruga wrote:
         | Yes, we are maintaining the list here.
         | https://community.frame.work/t/a-company-or-individual-drive...
        
         | klysm wrote:
         | If it doesn't already exist, I anticipate a awesome-framework
         | will get created on GH.
        
           | jimmygrapes wrote:
           | Is there money in those, or is it a labor of love?
        
             | fragmede wrote:
             | Well, an aspiring hacker will (hopefully) create one as a
             | labor of love but in creating it, will build a brand and
             | that's worth money, so there's that.
        
       | hardwaresofton wrote:
       | System76 and Framework both exist. Nvidia just released their
       | drivers as open source. What a time to be alive.
        
         | goodpoint wrote:
         | > What a time to be alive.
         | 
         | What?! It's 2022 and all CPUs and chipsets are closed source,
         | incredibly complex, designed by very few companies and
         | manufactured by a monopolist (TSMC).
         | 
         | End users are increasing using laptop and phones (instead of
         | desktops) that are entirely proprietary and not modular.
         | 
         | All hardware runs tons of closed source software below ring 0,
         | with no way to remove it for 99.9% of users.
         | 
         | Hardware security vulnerabilities abound. As complexity
         | increases every year, reliably detecting bugdoors/backdoors has
         | become a pipe dream.
        
           | troyvit wrote:
           | Everything you say is true. It's been true to some degree
           | since the beginning of consumer-level computing. What is also
           | true though is that open companies like Framework and
           | System76 (who I work for) actually are developing the power
           | and scale to push back on this paradigm and ... sorry for the
           | drama ... bring out a new era of open hardware, software and
           | firmware. It's so hard to claw back freedom from these
           | megaliths, but it is actually happening.
        
         | ekianjo wrote:
         | > Nvidia just released their drivers as open source
         | 
         | Not at all. They just released the kernel modules which is a
         | tiny part of what is needed to make GPU work.
         | 
         | > System76 and Framework
         | 
         | Lenovo has been around for a very long time and their thinkpads
         | have been repairable well before these two brands ever shipped
         | anything.
        
           | arnaudsm wrote:
           | Some of the recent ThinkPads have soldered RAM.
        
             | ekianjo wrote:
             | Unfortunately. The more expensensive ones outside of the x1
             | carbon line are still upgradable.
        
           | Brian_K_White wrote:
           | Owning both Lenovo and Framework myself, Lenovo doesn't hold
           | a candle to Framework.
        
           | lynndotpy wrote:
           | I use Linux, but Lenovo's reputation is still burned in my
           | eyes ever since the Superfish incident. I'm very happy we
           | have other names in the Linux laptop game.
           | 
           | (Context: Lenovo installed universal root CAs on their
           | laptops during the 2010s, so they could serve ads. They were
           | tied to firmware IIRC, so, reinstalling Windows would not
           | remove the malware.)
        
             | GuB-42 wrote:
             | I understand why you have a problem with Lenovo following
             | the incident, but ThinkPads are something else, and they
             | weren't impacted by Superfish.
             | 
             | Non-ThinkPad Lenovos are not great by any mean. They are
             | unremarkable consumer-grade laptops. ThinkPads are a legacy
             | from IBM that Lenovo is smart enough to keep separate from
             | the rest.
        
               | javert wrote:
               | Still not acceptable. It would be hard for me to buy a
               | ThinkPad (I have bought many in the past).
               | 
               | Obviously Lenovo has zero integrity and will spy on us or
               | cheat us in some other way if they think they can do it
               | without getting caught.
               | 
               | Sad that nobody else makes laptops with the little nub
               | for pointing the mouse.
        
               | smaudet wrote:
               | I used a TP from the 2013, 2014 era, and I have my
               | current main laptop as a TP from 2017...
               | 
               | The old TP was fantastic. Really out of date hardware,
               | but it did the job. New one is great, in theory (spec-
               | wise), but its a much cheaper build, breaks more, and
               | just generally has far more issues than I remember with
               | the old one. I think I had one in the middle too which
               | was just straight up an awful peice of junk...
               | 
               | When Lenovo got bought out by China, they weren't really
               | that smart - they tried to consumerize their TP and
               | thereby cut costs - the features they brought back to
               | modern TPs are still nice but you just don't get the same
               | attention to detail anymore...IMHO.
        
             | imwillofficial wrote:
             | That was over 10 years ago, a mistake which the company has
             | shown no signs of repeating.
        
           | BaseballPhysics wrote:
           | As a long time ThinkPad/Lenovo fan, suggesting that Lenovo's
           | repairability is in the same league as the Framework suggests
           | to me you've never actually worked with a Framework. It
           | really is on a whole other level.
        
             | h-w wrote:
             | Are you joking? Thinkpads for decades have had all the
             | parts replaceable with off the shelf components. Framework
             | is barely caught up with my 2008 thinkpad lol.
        
               | Rebelgecko wrote:
               | Framework's hardware is nice because it takes advantage
               | of CPUs, ports, RAM, screens etc that are more recent
               | than 2008
               | 
               | I know for some old ThinkPads (edit: The IBM branded T60
               | from 2006) you can get a custom motherboard that works
               | with modern CPUs, but the price for the mobo alone is
               | more than a Framework laptop
        
               | drewzero1 wrote:
               | I also have a 2008 and a 2009 Thinkpad. I've looked at
               | some recent ones and we've lost so much since then.
        
               | smaudet wrote:
               | Can you custom design parts with pinouts for your 2008
               | thinkpad?
               | 
               | If not, I'm not sure I believe you know what you are
               | talking about - its nice lenovo (in past) has been so
               | rugged, repairable, but using reverse engineered parts is
               | a very different thing to a set of components that can be
               | extended.
               | 
               | Put it like this - can you put a lenovo part on a
               | framework laptop? No? Why?
               | 
               | Until you can, Framework is in a whole different
               | category....
        
               | sleepymoose wrote:
               | 2008 ThinkPads are machines from a different era. Lenovo
               | doesn't build them the same anymore.
        
               | RealStickman_ wrote:
               | Have you looked at any more recent thinkpads?
        
             | ekianjo wrote:
             | good luck finding cheap parts for your framework laptop.
             | Lenovo however can be repaired for years with off the shelf
             | components and at very low cost.
        
               | commoner wrote:
               | Some business laptops from Lenovo, Dell, and HP rank
               | among the most repairable laptops. But Framework goes
               | even further by making their parts store and repair
               | guides accessible to everyone:
               | 
               | - https://frame.work/marketplace
               | 
               | - https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop
               | 
               | The prices of the parts are very reasonable, and each
               | part is labeled with a QR code that can be scanned to
               | access repair instructions.
        
               | greyhair wrote:
               | Dell Vostro laptops are not as sleek as their consumer
               | models, but they are tanks, and they are a breeze to
               | repair.
               | 
               | I do like what Framework is doing, and my next laptop
               | will likely be from them.
        
               | piceas wrote:
               | One of my Lenovo laptops has firmware to prevent me from
               | upgrading its WiFi card using off the shelf components.
               | 
               | If it's successful one would expect availability to
               | increase.
        
               | greyhair wrote:
               | Is it a Lenovo ThinkPad, or one of their other models?
        
               | Rebelgecko wrote:
               | FWIW I just look up 6 parts for the Thinkpad (battery,
               | keyboard, webcam, speakers, audio board), and all the
               | prices were within $5 of the framework equivalent.
               | Granted, that doesn't necessarily mean the prices will
               | still be comparable a decade from now.
        
           | Octoth0rpe wrote:
           | Worth pointing out that while linux has usually worked quite
           | well on thinkpads, _official_ support for linux was very
           | infrequent until recently. Also, support for linux on non-
           | thinkpad lenovos was much more of a crapshoot. For corporate
           | linux support, Dell (edit: and HP!) has always been a better
           | option.
           | 
           | Edit: And apparently even today is very limited. Just checked
           | Lenovo's website, and apparently only two models can be
           | ordered in the US with linux preinstalled: X1 Carbon, and the
           | Yoga. That's it.
        
             | rozab wrote:
             | Even for framework, the official Linux support isn't much
             | better. They don't ship with Linux and it's only recently
             | all the kinks have been mostly ironed out with the distro
             | they recommend, Ubuntu 21.04. They have been making
             | proactive steps with Linux support, like providing
             | prerelease hardware to maintainers of lots of distros, but
             | they don't officially support any distro.
        
           | imwillofficial wrote:
           | Do you understand what "not at all" means?
           | 
           | If they did part of the work, then clearly it is "some" work,
           | and not "none at all"
        
         | endgame wrote:
         | And this is why we must never give up and "be pragmatic". We
         | need to get things done today, sure, but we must also never
         | stop pushing for a freer tomorrow.
        
           | Brian_K_White wrote:
           | This. In the entire history of the world, nothing ever got
           | better by accepting what is. Be the sand in the gears any
           | time the gears don't work for you or for the common good.
        
             | genericone wrote:
             | "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the
             | unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to
             | himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable
             | man."
             | 
             | -- George Bernard Shaw
        
               | likeclockwork wrote:
               | "I was always willing to be reasonable until I had to be
               | unreasonable. Sometimes reasonable men must do
               | unreasonable things."
               | 
               | -- Marvin Heemeyer
        
       | mastazi wrote:
       | For those who like me did not know what's a cyberdeck, here are a
       | couple links I've found:
       | 
       | What is a cyberdeck? https://cyberdeck.cafe/mix/what-is-a-
       | cyberdeck
       | 
       | Some examples https://www.makeuseof.com/best-raspberry-pi-
       | cyberdecks/
       | 
       | Reddit community https://libredd.it/r/cyberDeck/
       | 
       | Even though I wasn't familiar with the term, this is actually
       | something I always wanted (a self-built portable device, that I
       | can customise in the same way I can customise a desktop
       | computer).
        
       | anuvrat1 wrote:
       | Isn't framework mainboard the best bank for the buck x86 SBC,
       | alas a tad bit bigger?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 1MachineElf wrote:
       | I would love to have one of these
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Framework is probably the coolest non-Apple laptop to come along
       | in a long time. I love how they've connected with the hacker and
       | maker communities to enable... well, things like this, but beyond
       | that a more open and honest hardware ecosystem for x86 portable
       | machines.
        
       | Extropy_ wrote:
       | This is really cool. I'd love to see more devices like this. As I
       | don't exactly have the resources to build one on my own, I'd also
       | be interested in the opportunity to buy one.
        
       | Retr0id wrote:
       | These cyberdecks _look_ awesome, but I don 't really understand
       | the ergonomics of the screen. Don't you have to crane your neck
       | to look at it?
       | 
       | Has anyone here used a form-factor like this for any length of
       | time?
        
         | goodpoint wrote:
         | These are really not designed for ergonomics. They are
         | obviously much worse than a phone on your neck and back.
         | 
         | Cyberdecks are craft objects, made for show, like many
         | mechanical keyboards.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | This was actually the form factor of numerous 1980s portables,
         | most notably the TRS-80 Model 100 mentioned in the article, but
         | also others such as the Epson HX-20 and Clive Sinclair's Z88.
         | You don't really "crane your neck" any more than you do with
         | modern smartphone which likewise has the (virtual) keyboard in
         | the same plane as the rest of the screen.
        
           | grp000 wrote:
           | I don't really see myself thumb typing with a cyberdeck
           | though.
        
         | xixixao wrote:
         | It could pair perfectly with screen glasses like these:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31393483
         | 
         | You could even drop the built-in display. I totally see a
         | future now where I'll have a screen-less MacBook with a pair of
         | glasses like these for on the go and plugging into a monitor at
         | home/work.
        
           | codethief wrote:
           | Damn, this is what I've been waiting for for years! No
           | mention of PC/laptop compatibility, though. Do you happen to
           | know anything about that? (I _guess_ any machine with HDMI
           | out should do but before spending hundreds of dollars I guess
           | I should make sure.)
        
       | the_gipsy wrote:
       | I just want a laptop with an ortho keyboard (grid layout instead
       | of staggered rows).
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Any of these open source DIY projects would make it easy to
         | drop in your choice of keyboard, no?
        
           | blangk wrote:
           | That would be amazing - like the framework laptop diy edition
           | and you can customise the keyboard part and the hinges or
           | something and run low profile mechanical switches in whatever
           | layout you and keymap you want
        
           | TranquilMarmot wrote:
           | It definitely looks like with this one at least you could
           | make it ortho
        
           | the_gipsy wrote:
           | Yea with the framework it's very much doable, but I myself am
           | not that good at this kind of DIY. I have done assembling and
           | soldering on mechanical keyboards, but the parts were already
           | designed by people who know what they're doing.
        
       | henriquecm8 wrote:
       | I wish we had good and discreet ar glasses to use with cyberdecks
        
         | klysm wrote:
         | Unfortunately I think discrete is far off for that tech
        
         | lukasb wrote:
         | oh wow, yeah. a good AR/VR mobile setup might be what it takes
         | to get me off Macs (unless Macs get there first.)
        
         | stuntkite wrote:
         | What about Project Northstar?
        
           | throwawayben wrote:
           | not sure that fulfills the "discreet" requirement
        
             | stuntkite wrote:
             | It's pretty self contained. I guess the apple glasses or
             | something is what you mean. Eh.
        
       | DoingIsLearning wrote:
       | What is the display interface on this motherboard?
       | 
       | Could I use a large matte display instead of the framework glossy
       | LCD display?
        
       | contingencies wrote:
       | Can anyone comment on "Gazzew Boba" as a source of key movements?
       | I recently acquired a few Cherry devices but have not found them
       | to be either to spec, bug-free or supported. I'd like to support
       | an alternative company (more whole-keyboard than DIY but would
       | DIY if needed) and figure this is semi on-topic.
        
         | wellthisisgreat wrote:
         | I am using a fully custom Boba linears (assembled from spare
         | parts bought from the man), 55gr springs to reduce the load on
         | fingers.
         | 
         | They are nice
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | What's this thing for thick subnotebooks with tiny screens all of
       | a sudden?
       | 
       | I liked subnotebooks, and they're now hard to get. I have a bunch
       | of Eee PC 1000 series machines I bought off eBay for about $50
       | each for semi-embedded applications, or to carry around. I
       | replace the battery, wipe the hard drive to get rid of Windows,
       | and install XUbuntu. Newer machines at a similar price point
       | would be nice.
        
         | cestith wrote:
         | https://www.clockworkpi.com/ has RISC-V and ARM (Raspi CM3 or a
         | Rockchip module) models of their DevTerm slab system. The
         | schematics are GPL v3. There's micro HDMI if you need an
         | external screen for a while. The ARM versions run Ubuntu,
         | Debian, their own ClockworkOS, or most other things that will
         | run on Raspberry Pi. $260 to $340 or so for the ARM ones new,
         | not including the 18650 batteries.
        
         | nrp wrote:
         | The sudden growth in cyberdeck projects comes out of the
         | convergence of three things:
         | 
         | 1. The mechanical keyboard DIY and modding community.
         | 
         | 2. The availability of small ultrawide LCDs, mostly from the
         | automotive space.
         | 
         | 3. The Raspberry Pi ecosystem.
         | 
         | We're basically enabling that community with a higher power x86
         | option.
        
           | regularfry wrote:
           | Funnily enough the original EEE PC 701 happened (in part)
           | because of the availability of automotive parts, in
           | particular the screen. Same spec as the built-in sat-nav
           | units that started to trickle into the mainstream in the
           | 1998-2003 era.
        
           | AlanYx wrote:
           | I think another big part of it is a desire to return to
           | "personal computing" in the personal sense, as a reaction
           | against subscription everything, sandboxed app everything,
           | polished everything. Cyberdecks are under your control, from
           | the design to the keyboard, and a person is probably more
           | likely to be running something personal like Emacs on these
           | machines than some Electron groupware.
        
         | wolpoli wrote:
         | There does appear to be a small unserved niche for people
         | looking for an open computing device that's portable but with a
         | keyboard.
         | 
         | As you mentioned, subnotebooks are hard to come by. Android
         | phones with keyboard are also hard to find. Android tablets
         | with keyboard sleeves are clunky. Android programs are designed
         | for touch also.
         | 
         | iPads have a decent keyboard case but are also locked down.
        
           | mxuribe wrote:
           | > ...Android phones with keyboard are also hard to find...
           | 
           | To this day, my partner - who is not a tech person - believes
           | that the days when mobile phones had physical, slide out
           | keyboards was the epitome of tech design. She felt is was the
           | proper balance for the tech- and non-tech audiences. She
           | feels like typing into glass is either kid-like or too far
           | fetched for the not-yet-Star-Trek-like world that we live in.
           | Go figure! :-)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-05-16 23:02 UTC)