[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Senior Engineers with ADHD, any mental/physi...
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Ask HN: Senior Engineers with ADHD, any mental/physical structures
for work?
I recently got promoted to a senior position involving one of the
top distributed system projects in the world. The journey till here
was very strenuous for myself, and the next level seems very
difficult to reach without better mental structures in place. Even
becoming a senior required putting in a lot of extra effort in my
day to day activities so that I can barely achieve all objectives
by the deadline, compared to my teammates with a similar workload.
Because of my executive dysfunction, I'm having a hard time with
the following things and I need to put in extra effort (on order of
multiple hours everyday). It took me many, many months to develop
simple planning and organization abilities, for eg. planning for
the day at a granularity that doesn't overwhelm me and yet provide
me a good enough overview of tasks so that I don't miss out on
anything. 1. Tracking multiple small work items, especially the
tail end work items that are inherently boring: As a mid level
engineer when I was working on a maximum of couple of work items,
it was easier to focus on them and track deployments, follow ups
with others etc. It becomes exponentially tougher for me once it
goes beyond 2 work items. 2. Understanding a mature big project in
detail: I have always been able to efficiently work on projects
that require working from ground up as they provided extra
motivation. I can even handle medium size projects as I can work
with a few unknowns. But for huge projects spanning teams worth
100s of team members, it becomes overwhelmingly difficult to focus
on my subproject without trying to understand everything it touches
upon. Maybe it's a result of perfectionist tendencies, maybe it's
because I have problems starting work items with extremely limited
amount of scope compared to the workings of the whole project.
There are new terms, new things very slightly unrelated to my
smaller project at hand that I don't know no matter how much I
learn. 3. Relatively efficient multi tasking: Once I get started
on any task, it takes a while for me to get going, and even after
finishing it up, it takes a while to start on another task as well.
I'm extremely efficient once I get into the zone and the task is a
big enough unit that only I have to work on. But when the project
involves interacting with multiple stakeholders in an async manner,
it gets split into tens of small units requiring immense willpower
to start and stop. If these units are not big enough, this results
in lengthy procrastination times that ultimately reduces my
productivity to 10% compared to when I'm working on a single big
item by myself. This problem is easily avoidable at junior/mid
level engineer, but at senior level these are prerequisite rather
than a choice. 4. Acceptance with the nature of work: I have
always loved Computer Science ever since I understood its basic
concepts. I have worked at fintech companies where the work
involved understanding and interacting with core C/C++ constructs
and computer science fundamentals to extract the maximum execution
speed to give that edge in trading, and that was immensely
satisfying. But at senior level and above, most if not all software
companies require work that's less research/depth in nature and
more planning/organizing/breadth in nature. I have considered doing
a MS/PhD but at the moment I want to continue evolving in the role
I have. I'm interested in any and all opinions/points of view
here, ranging from "Use X technique/tool to help being
organized/plan/etc." to "I struggled with similar issues, and
here's how I cope/developed structures to help with this over the
years".
Author : neo_optimus
Score : 32 points
Date : 2022-05-15 18:26 UTC (4 hours ago)
| toivo wrote:
| As a programmer I've approached these problems with programming
| productivity software for myself. 1) A hierarchical task list
| that has unlimited depth for tasks and undo history. I write
| every little task down and their subtask and their subtask...
| This way when I do get distracted (and I do a lot), one look at
| it and I know snap back to the context I was in. 2) Micro
| day/routine planner that schedules my day and reminds me to do
| things with text to speak while I work
| vanjajaja1 wrote:
| 1. I use Quiver.app to plan my week/day and to track what i'm
| working on right now in the moment. Any intermediate output from
| my work gets tracked (eg. preparing important commands, saving
| output of important commands) and any little task that pops up
| gets added to an impromptu to-do list. This keeps me focussed and
| stops me forgetting my place in what I'm working on in case I get
| distracted. At the end of the day/week I ruthlessly evaluate what
| must be carried over and what can spill on.
|
| 2. Learn to offload work to juniors. Create tickets and dump them
| in your backlog. Work with your manager to make sure that "work
| that is not an efficient use of my time" gets handled my someone
| else. Anything that drains your energy or seems tedious and can
| be a learning opportunity for a junior. Use your
| 'procrastination' as a signal that whatever you're working on
| should be assigned to someone else.
| asimjalis wrote:
| Do you have a link to this quiver.app?
| tough wrote:
| Prob this https://yliansoft.com/
| https://apps.apple.com/us/app/quiver-take-better-
| notes/id866...
| bin_bash wrote:
| I had to quit Adderall, it made me an awful dad and husband too
| anxious to do anything other than work and I was only able to
| work on specific things. I was never able to focus generally on
| any particular thing with it. I'm on Strattera but it's only 10
| days in and it takes several weeks to kick in.
|
| I go to the coffee shop and do 3 15-minute Pomodoros every
| morning. The combination of being at a dedicated place, limiting
| the work I have to do, and having a stimulant works reasonably
| well for me.
|
| It's amazing what you can get done in 45 minutes if you really
| focus. I struggle to write much--if any--code outside of that
| window. The rest of my day is chat, email, docs (reading or
| writing), or making simple one or two line fixes.
|
| I was diagnosed in like the second grade and have struggled
| throughout my life. I'm in my mid-30s now.
| renewiltord wrote:
| 1. I use Adderall, cycle with Caffeine, with days on neither to
| prevent dependence.
|
| 2. I use Google Tasks and stick everything there obsessively.
| Some tasks are higher overhead to track than to execute, but not
| having to make the track/just-execute distinction enables more
| execution because of how ADHD works for me (choice making induces
| task avoidance)
|
| 3. I have a daily meeting at 0830 where I execute a daily tasks
| list. Here's the first few lines: Recruiting
| platform checks Greenhouse: Screen
| current candidates Review scorecards
| Review Application Review Write 3 objectives for
| the day Clear all Gmail inbox One off
| tasks Review task deadlines On
| Recruiting Board On Engineering Board
| Do all immediately due tasks
|
| In my case, all of my behaviour got worse after I had a bad car
| accident so I've been forced to use all this machinery. I still
| get the desire to work and stuff like that but I get some sort of
| physiological fear-response for things that appear big but just
| need to be done.
|
| This is problematic for someone in my position, so I just use the
| tools to deal with them and I'm able to fairly performant, though
| it probably sounds silly to many people who are able to task-
| dispatch much more easily.
| estevaoam wrote:
| I was diagnosed with somewhat severe ADHD, hyperactive and
| attention subtype. I have few tips to share:
|
| 1. Find your medication. After I found mine with the correct
| dosage, my life improved ten fold. Our dopamine system is wired
| differently and medication is the basis of treatment to cope with
| it.
|
| 2. Externalize everything: thoughts, events, planning, even your
| life's values if you feel like it. Write it all down and build
| the discipline to keep those updated. Use todo-lists for
| everything. The poor executive functions we experience can be
| compensated by externalizing everything, so always organize your
| thoughts in a notepad. I use NotePlan mac/iOS app and highly
| recommend to check it out.
|
| 3. A lesser commonly known part of being ADHD is that it can also
| cause emotional unbalance. We can get overwhelmed, overexcited
| and overanxious easily. Keep awareness of your emotions. Again,
| write them down.
|
| 4. SLOW DOWN. Especially if you are also hyperactive. Try to
| think and react more slowly to the world around you. Give time
| for things to sink in your head before taking action.
|
| 5. Last but not least: be kind to yourself. You can't always do
| everything perfectly. Mistakes are going to happen and that's
| normal for everyone. Focus on improving yourself a little
| everyday and enjoy the present.
|
| If you haven't seen this video yet, it explains better and in
| much more detail: https://youtu.be/sPFmKu2S5XY
| gazby wrote:
| This could not more perfectly reflect my experience had I
| written it myself. I was diagnosed with (also quite severe)
| ADHD recently, and it seems it was a surprise to literally no
| one but me. A solid third of the people I've discussed it with
| had assumed I knew and just wasn't well treated.
|
| Even though it's number 1, I do want to emphasize it for those
| who are reluctant. Finding an effective medication has been one
| of the most net-positive personal changes I've ever
| experienced. And if it isn't for you, there's no harm is simply
| stopping :)
|
| Edit: I should have kept reading, Mo3 sums up my contribution
| here much better lol
| Mo3 wrote:
| I assume you will get a lot of helpful tips here, and I too have
| successfully managed to cope for almost 30 years, but I have to
| honestly admit that getting on medication was the best thing that
| has ever happened to me. There is only so much you can do to
| alleviate a chemical imbalance.
|
| My life has never been the same since I got on it. The first few
| days I had to cry a lot, it was so incredibly beautiful and
| liberating. It was.. quiet. No more dozens of thought streams at
| once. Thoughts suddenly had structure. Everything had structure.
| I could tap into the potential that had always been there, but
| had been inaccessible. I felt normal. I fixed up my whole life
| within a few months, organized it (which now even helps when I
| dont take the medication), took care of things that have been
| unfinished for years.
|
| And that's only work and organization. My social skills went
| through the roof too. I started to be able to hold normal
| conversations, I could listen properly, I could reply properly,
| and any conversations I have have become just so much more deep
| and meaningful. My depression and anxiety have vanished
| completely, for they were only a symptom of the ADD too. I eat
| better, I sleep better, my apartment is clean. I'm happier and
| healthier than I've ever been.
|
| There is no real alternative. You can decide to keep on coping,
| but at some point you really have to ask yourself if you want to
| make everything harder on yourself than it has to be.
| doodle323 wrote:
| I am just starting to look for treatment. If you don't mind
| sharing, which medication works best for you?
| gazby wrote:
| I'm on 20mg XR Adderall daily. My insurance won't cover
| Vyvanse which seems to be vastly more popular and well
| tolerated these days (the patent expires next year though, so
| we'll see what happens).
| Mo3 wrote:
| I have a mixture of instant-release and extended-release
| standard methylphenidate/Ritalin.
|
| Adderall works well too, but I find it a little bit too
| "drug-like" and euphoric, so I settled on regular
| methylphenidate which has almost zero euphoria.
| gazby wrote:
| Fantastic original post Mo3, thanks!
|
| May I ask how long it took you to find the right medication
| and balance of XR/IR please?
| Mo3 wrote:
| You are welcome.
|
| For myself, it was immediate. There seems to be a certain
| kind of intuitive understanding that becomes obvious
| after the first doses of a medication.
|
| It is quite hard to explain, but it seems like the brain
| knows exactly what it needs. Unless you have
| uncontrollable addictive tendencies, you will
| automatically gravitate towards the dosage necessary to
| restore chemical balance. You will redose when it is
| needed, and you will notice quickly if a medication is
| not the right choice for you.
|
| XR was another revelation in itself: Unlike IR, where you
| will intuitively notice dopamine levels sinking after a
| few hours and thoughts about medication pop up in your
| conscious mind, on XR there is no such thought for the
| better part of the day as they do such a good job at
| keeping constant levels.
| gazby wrote:
| Thank you mate!
|
| To clarify, my current dose is 20mg XR daily. I have
| raised with my doctor that this dose is completely spent
| (I have other [diagnosed] issues that lead to an overly
| acidic stomach) long before the end of the work day, and
| thus I don't have medicinal help when I turn to my
| personal life.
|
| As yet she seems quite unwilling to adjust the dose or
| add an IR (anecdotally adding an IR seems very common),
| and I was wondering what the timeline was between
| starting medication and landing on a sufficient dose of
| XR+IR between you and your doctor.
| sysadm1n wrote:
| > most if not all software companies require work that's less
| research/depth in nature and more planning/organizing/breadth in
| nature
|
| I wish I could say just pick the work that is more R&D in nature
| and avoid 'secretary' work, but you obviously don't have that
| choice. Personally I love anything along the lines of Lockheed's
| 'Skunk Works'[0] program. Pure R&D and risky too, because you
| don't know if it will work. F7ck around and find out is my
| mantra.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skunk_Works
| dekhn wrote:
| I struggled with all of this and decided instead of pull back on
| responsibility because it was making me extremely unhappy trying
| to constantly equal my similarly levelled colleagues.
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(page generated 2022-05-15 23:02 UTC)