[HN Gopher] Show HN: A Visual IDE for React
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Show HN: A Visual IDE for React
        
       I made this because building UIs in a lexical medium like code is
       super annoying. I have to pre-render what I'm making in my head,
       and then jump between the browser and IDE to test. I was inspired
       by the developer console in chrome and safari since I end up
       editing css there because it's ironically more convenient. Hope
       it's useful!
        
       Author : tscepo
       Score  : 418 points
       Date   : 2022-05-13 06:30 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dev.aspect.app)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dev.aspect.app)
        
       | 91edec wrote:
       | Congrats on shipping.
        
       | PhillyG wrote:
       | Would this make learning React easier?
        
       | tuyiown wrote:
       | No design principle, no explicit constraints on code base, no
       | explicit supported scope.
       | 
       | Surely there is some kind of React component that won't work well
       | with this, the unsuspecting will discover this too late.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | can16358p wrote:
       | I don't believe we need an IDE for React, it will end up dead
       | like Dreamweaver or FrontPage.
       | 
       | BUT, a Vscode plugin that visualizes self-contained components
       | with all its styles intact would be nice: like I open
       | MyComponent.tsx and in the right pane I see it visually, without
       | running the actual webpage or server.
        
         | basisword wrote:
         | Dreamweaver has existed for 25 years and it's still around.
        
           | can16358p wrote:
           | Well MS-DOS is still around.
           | 
           | But nobody uses it because the industry moved to more
           | efficient software after seeing there are better ways to
           | solve the problem.
        
         | macray wrote:
         | https://previewjs.com/ does that
        
           | trenchgun wrote:
           | Looks great!
        
           | Kyro38 wrote:
           | It's there some kind of equivalent for Angular components ?
        
           | fwouts wrote:
           | Hey! Author of Preview.js here :)
           | 
           | It's early days and you might find that Preview.js can be a
           | little difficult to set up in a large, complex project
           | (working on improving that now) but please send through any
           | feedback on the GitHub repo or Discord server, much
           | appreciated!
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Been thinking about this a lot the past few days. The main
         | reason this isn't yet integrated into vscode is to allow
         | designers to edit, like in webflow.
        
         | realharo wrote:
         | Something like https://storybook.js.org/? Not a VS Code plugin,
         | but similar idea (though it does a lot more).
         | 
         | SwiftUI and Jetpack Compose also support individual component
         | previews in their respective IDEs. (https://developer.apple.com
         | /documentation/swiftui/previews-i..., https://developer.android
         | .com/jetpack/compose/tooling#previe...)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rylandking wrote:
         | Similar is https://stackbit.com/. I've used it to make my React
         | website visually editable so my marketers could have a WYSIWYG.
        
         | ramraj07 wrote:
         | I've deployed serviceable small websites for my family and
         | friends when I was a kid with Dreamweaver and Frontpage. As
         | long as they support the marquee tag what are you complaining?
        
       | noso wrote:
       | Watched the "get stated" video to the end and gave a great
       | overview of how helpful the tool can be while building react
       | apps.
       | 
       | Awesome work and well done!
        
       | sktrdie wrote:
       | https://utopia.app/ also does this
        
         | hobofan wrote:
         | Utopia doesn't "also" do this, they are doing something far
         | more useful (bidirectional visual editing of the code) that
         | could actually end up making its way into many people's
         | workflow (it's just a shame that they don't support Typescript
         | yet).
         | 
         | There are plenty of drag and drop visual React builders, but as
         | long as they follow an unidirectional export-once workflow,
         | they are about as useful as a Figma mockup.
        
         | BillSaysThis wrote:
         | Can I bring my own component library? And CSS variable files?
        
       | qwerty456127 wrote:
       | I agree 10000%. A way to design browser-based GUIs the visual RAD
       | way makes me drool. I hope it grows and flourishes.
        
       | the_other wrote:
       | Hey, well done for getting something functional working and in
       | the public eye.
       | 
       | > I made this because building UIs in a lexical medium like code
       | is super annoying. I have to pre-render what I'm making in my
       | head
       | 
       | I'd call the pre-rendering in your head a benefit, tbh. Also..
       | watching your vid, the property editor being "far away" from the
       | selected item renders this tool much less useful to me than
       | writing code. My eyesight's bad, so I can't keep the editor and
       | the selected object in focus at the same time. The head & eye
       | switching is probably more annoying to someone in my position
       | than switching apps because at least I know I'm changing context
       | when I switch apps (although I admit, I've put up with that for
       | 20 years so perhaps I just don't notice).
       | 
       | > I was inspired by the developer console in chrome and safari
       | since I end up editing css there because it's ironically more
       | convenient.
       | 
       | Conversely, I agree with this entirely. I don't like having to
       | bob my head around the screen when I edit CSS in the browser, but
       | it's still MUCH faster and intuitive than doing it in a separate
       | code editor. I strongly dislike Tailwind and similar tools
       | because they prevent this kind of coding/debugging. A similar
       | tool got shown here on HN recently, and the conversation circled
       | the idea that a visual tool to edit CSS is a) so handy but b)
       | really hard to build because it's not programmatically obvious
       | which file to make updates too... it's still easier to keep the
       | file hierarchy in your head (even though that's quite hard). I
       | guess focusing on React components lets you assume the CSS is
       | "beside" the given component.
        
         | kristiandupont wrote:
         | > I strongly dislike Tailwind and similar tools because they
         | prevent this kind of coding/debugging
         | 
         | No they don't? I use the inspector all the time to figure out
         | what values to set. Granted, I then translate those to Tailwind
         | in my head, so there is an extra step compared to directly
         | copying the style but that's a very small price to pay for all
         | the advantages that I get from Tailwind.
        
           | bzxcvbn wrote:
           | What are the advantages, really? I used to use tailwind for
           | my site, but then I realized I was essentially writing plain
           | CSS in some DSL. Writing the plain CSS directly and using a
           | few CSS variables for things like color and spacing
           | simplified the whole thing greatly.
        
             | diatone wrote:
             | For personal projects it might be overkill depending on the
             | scope. But if 2+ people are working on a constantly
             | evolving system, shipping new features, and want
             | consistency in the design system? It's a solid foundation.
        
         | edwinyzh wrote:
         | >> A similar tool got shown here on HN...a visual tool to edit
         | CSS is a) so handy but b) really hard to build because it's not
         | programmatically obvious which file to make updates too...
         | 
         | Can you point me to the post so that I can study more details?
         | As mentioned about, the idea of my http://liveditor.com is not
         | to edit the css for you but points you to the line of the css
         | file so that you can edit the styles in the code editor and see
         | the result instantly.
        
       | anonymouse008 wrote:
       | Holy cannoli this is amazing!!
       | 
       | I have no better words than Mike Markkula's point 3 of Apple's
       | marketing philosophy for you:
       | 
       | Point No. 3: Impute
       | 
       | "People DO judge a book by its cover. We may have the best
       | product, the highest quality, the most useful software etc.; if
       | we present them in a slipshod manner, they will be perceived as
       | slipshod; if we present them in a creative, professional manner,
       | we will impute the desired qualities."
       | 
       | You have a stellar product - spend every waking moment polishing
       | it. You already nailed point 1 and 2, that's why they're not
       | included!
        
       | beshur wrote:
       | Sorry, I could not go farther in the video after watching the
       | narrator trying to accurately click on all those inputs,
       | dropdowns etc. simultaneously saying "writing this in code would
       | be annoying".
       | 
       | In my opinion using mouse pointer to click things on screen is
       | annoying when it comes to programming.
        
         | noduerme wrote:
         | Generally when I watch a code demo I appreciate if the
         | demonstrator doesn't use keyboard shortcuts, because I'm trying
         | to focus on the actions not the way you get to those actions.
         | And having a mouse move around gives you a moment to think
         | about the last thing they said and how it fits with your
         | projects.
        
         | danielvaughn wrote:
         | I think it comes down to preference, but ultimately I agree
         | with you. There are a lot of misconceptions about "code", and
         | when people talk about how code is either slow, hard, annoying
         | etc, they're speaking in the abstract and not being specific.
         | At the end of the day, "code" is really just typing what you
         | want instead of dragging around a mouse. It's like saying "I
         | like to use my mouse to copy and paste instead of typing cmd+c
         | cmd+v, it's faster". It doesn't make any sense.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mbreese wrote:
         | I find mocking things up is better done visually. Whether
         | that's pen/paper, Illustrator, or a GUI builder like this. I
         | think they serve the same purpose. The only difference is that
         | with this, you're closer to getting a final asset you can tweak
         | with code. GUI builders have a long history. But the best of
         | them produce code you can commit to git.
         | 
         | But, I guess the real question of usefulness is how good (or
         | sane) the generated code is.
         | 
         | To use an example from a different comment, if it is closer to
         | Dreamweaver, that at least produced workable code. If it is
         | closer to FrontPage... good luck.
        
           | user3939382 wrote:
           | FrontPage only has one thing to say to you in response to
           | this insult:  
        
           | criley2 wrote:
           | I find that mocking is best done by product/designers and not
           | engineers, and that the skills to make a wonderful user
           | experience are about as opposite from the skills of being a
           | talented js/typescript/react/redux/devos etc engineer as can
           | be.
           | 
           | When I get a feature to implement in react, I expect the
           | mocks to completed. We do our design work in figma and it's
           | already a wonderful tool for mocking up our react app.
           | 
           | The point of an 'all-in-one' mock and code tool seems
           | strange. Is it to get rid of designers (which is bad because
           | UX/accessibility/design is yet another skill to add ontop of
           | the devops pile that will not be handled at a high level) or
           | is it to get rid of the engineer (so that the product team
           | can create a react app without an expensive coder, which is
           | bad because shit is going to break and no one is going to
           | know how to fix it).
           | 
           | Perhaps this is intended for very small companies (~single
           | person shops) where like it or not you're doing everything so
           | anything that simplifies the process is a value add.
           | 
           | The project looks very cool though, and he can definitely put
           | together a form faster with this tool than I can writing it
           | all out by hand. I wonder how the experience gets when you're
           | in the weeds of custom components, hooks, props and all of
           | the sauce that makes react complicated.
        
       | solarkraft wrote:
       | Visual editors are great! However closed source development tools
       | tend to not do very well.
        
         | runako wrote:
         | One of the top dev tools in the world is Microsoft's Visual
         | Studio (not VS Code). It's doing fine. Similarly, JetBrains
         | makes an incredibly popular set of closed-source dev tools[1].
         | 
         | Most people use dev tools as a part of their jobs. Employers
         | buy tools for their employees. It's a good idea to make great
         | software for developers and then to charge money for it so that
         | you can keep shipping.
         | 
         | 1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21796793
        
         | upupandup wrote:
         | Open source doesn't make software inherently better, more
         | reliable or secure. Without a dedicated development direction
         | that is supported financially, you are banking on the
         | generosity of the github author.
         | 
         | I have no problem with paid tools, I do have an issue with
         | Stallmanism, gaslighting micro-ISV as evil, while telling OSS
         | devs to suck it up and ask for donations to fund their widely
         | used work.
        
           | solarkraft wrote:
           | I don't have an issue with paid tools either. I have an issue
           | with non-extensibility and relying on small companies that
           | may go out of business at any moment.
           | 
           | You could arguably remediate the former issue with a good
           | plugin API. Then again this program may not be aimed at
           | _developers_ , but more at _designers_ , which may care a bit
           | less about extensibility and covering special use cases.
        
       | lstamour wrote:
       | Just a tip for the demo video - check out Descript.com for an
       | easy way to edit out the "ums" in videos and screen recordings. I
       | use it regularly to tighten up a recording quickly. I likely
       | wouldn't edit or make videos in the first place if I didn't have
       | Descript. No relationship to disclose, just a happy customer.
        
       | math-dev wrote:
       | Is it via class or functional components ?
       | 
       | Keep up the good work - maybe jetbrains will buy / fund you!
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Right now we export class components, but the option to export
         | functional components is coming soon. Will likely default to
         | functional component export.
         | 
         | Thanks!
        
       | qwerki wrote:
       | Disappointing to see the top comments are not encouraging of your
       | efforts. This is not an easy undertaking and it's clear you've
       | put a lot of time into it - you should be commended. I wish you
       | the best of luck and look forward to seeing more of your work!
        
         | TimMeade wrote:
         | ditto. Looks like a lot of work. Nice.
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | That means a lot, thanks!
        
       | phtrivier wrote:
       | This isn't shown in the video, but does your editor comes with
       | pre-set "styles" or is it something that you would import
       | yourself ?
       | 
       | My experience is that typing the code for components nesting
       | inside components is not really the big hurdle when designing
       | React views ; rather, it's getting the "layout" part of the css
       | right.
       | 
       | The big value in the video seems to be the simple fact that you
       | have a "Form" parent component where adding a child gives it
       | roughly the right look.
       | 
       | But maybe I have Stokholm syndrome, and forgot how simple it was
       | to hook up in GUI in VB3 back in the days !
       | 
       | Nice work !
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | I set up super minimal preset styling, and yeah I think basic
         | css import makes sense as a next feature. Hoping to avoid
         | overly complex style inheritance.
         | 
         | I 100% agree, getting layout css right is the most annoying
         | part of styling. I'm inspired by Apple's stack views and
         | Figma's auto layout which make it a lot more intuitive so I
         | think those can be the first "Aspect components" that will come
         | out on next release.
         | 
         | Thanks for the feedback!
        
           | dgritsko wrote:
           | Tailwind support would be awesome. I often use Tailwind Play
           | (https://play.tailwindcss.com/) when I'm "sketching out" the
           | look of a new component since it's so quick to iterate and
           | get immediate visual feedback, as you well know.
        
         | danielvaughn wrote:
         | I've been wondering whether it would be possible to leverage
         | ML/AI to "infer" a layout from a visual mockup. So like if two
         | elements have the same X position, they're assumed to be left
         | aligned with one another. If three elements are the same width
         | and sit side-by-side with the same distance between them,
         | they're assumed to be a 3-grid column. Etc etc.
        
           | tscepo wrote:
           | We're actually in review on the Figma plugin store for
           | exactly this. Should be out soon.
        
             | danielvaughn wrote:
             | Very nice. One pain point I've noticed with AutoLayout is
             | that once a layout is set, it's very difficult to "just
             | shift something around", which is what's so nice about a
             | visual editing tool to begin with. The benefit of an
             | automated layout inference tool is that it could
             | theoretically let you toggle the layout off, do your quick
             | and easy shifting, then turn it back on and let the tool
             | infer the changes you made.
        
       | your_challenger wrote:
       | The video doesn't work
       | 
       | { "error": { "code": 402, "message": "Quota has been exceeded for
       | this project. Please visit the Firebase pricing page to learn
       | more." } }
        
         | epberry wrote:
         | Best kind of error message.
        
         | your_challenger wrote:
         | Works now
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Ah thanks for the heads up, just fixed!
        
       | etchalon wrote:
       | This is an absolutely awesome thing. Great job!
        
       | onion2k wrote:
       | It reminds me of Visual Basic or early versions of Dreamweaver to
       | an extent (which is a huge compliment). That enabled a massive
       | number of people to make apps who wouldn't otherwise have been
       | able to, but after using it for a long time most users abandon
       | the visual UI builder in favor of the code editor.
       | 
       | If you're a visually-driven person then this looks ace, but I
       | think in the opposite way to the narrator. Rather than finding
       | writing the code directly annoying and preferring an interactive
       | way of editing components, I find visual interfaces to code
       | really hard to work with. I suspect I think in abstractions too
       | much for it to work for me.
        
         | Doches wrote:
         | This, very much so. One of the (few) things I genuinely love
         | about modern frontend web development is the speed of the edit
         | loop with React and hot reloading. Look, I'm an engineer;
         | _writing code_ is my jam, not clicking pretty widgets in a
         | (nice!) UI. It's genuinely faster for me to turn an image in my
         | head into a functioning component by just writing out
         | Typescript or CSS; the abstractions are less leaky, and the
         | escape hatches are literally at my fingertips rather than
         | requiring an extra jump or two.
         | 
         | Put another way: if I have to take my hands off the keyboard
         | I've already lost.
        
           | diatone wrote:
           | Playing devil's advocate here: if this graphical interface
           | could be manipulated without mouse clicks, you're still
           | interested? Alternatively: if there were some high bandwidth,
           | low latency feedback loop between you and this app, an order
           | of magnitude faster than how you currently iterate on working
           | with React, you'd consider it?
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | csmeyer wrote:
       | This is a pretty slick app! One thing I notice is that there are
       | a lot of options in things like the insert menu with tags that
       | aren't super popular. Maybe prioritizing more commonly used
       | options would help with the UX? Also once you're logged in,
       | there's no way to get back to the landing page without logging
       | out.
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Will make these changes in a few minutes, thanks for the heads
         | up!
        
           | csmeyer wrote:
           | Also, is there a way to make more than one project/rename
           | projects? Another UI thing, I think having those side panels
           | expand on hover is a little distracting, maybe use a chevron
           | to expand/collapse? If you have contact info on the page I'd
           | be happy to give some more feedback, don't want to spam HN
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bibinou wrote:
       | > (c) Metacode, Inc. dba Aspect
       | 
       | Is this the Metacode that got YC funding?
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Yes. I'm super passionate about software that creates software.
        
           | Edmond wrote:
           | Kindred spirits...I would like to get in touch, my email is
           | in my profile.
        
           | Karawebnetwork wrote:
           | Out of topic, are you worried that Meta might target you at
           | some point?
        
       | edding4500 wrote:
       | Cool project, congrats you finished it up to this point :)
       | 
       | As some people pointed out, web developer demands are pretty
       | specific and vary from person to person. To fulfill most of them
       | would mean immense efforts.
       | 
       | In contrast to that, I think your idea could thrive as a `boiler
       | plate` component generator. Add an export button that just hands
       | you the component code and you got me hooked for some quick
       | components.
        
       | Mappleton wrote:
       | Look promising, but just logged in and poked around and couldn't
       | figure out how to get elements on the canvas. Or do much of
       | anything. Some of the interaction design seems quite odd and
       | difficult to use (eg. all the sidebar accordions open on hover
       | rather than on click. And clicking on elements in the "insert"
       | dropdown doesn't insert them.).
       | 
       | Apologies for jumping to critical feedback! Rough prototypes are
       | rough for good reason ;) Glad to see more of these GUI builders
       | popping up and think this is a worthwhile avenue to explore. But
       | might be worth spending a bit of time looking at interface design
       | best practices. And/or getting a designer to come advise on the
       | project.
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | I really appreciate the feedback, thanks! Talking to designer
         | friends and updating UX as we speak, based on this.
        
       | idkwhoiam wrote:
       | This reminds me of the Ext Designer tool from many years ago that
       | was very useful in building forms with the Ext.js framework.
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | Good luck, looks great already!
       | 
       | I spent years of my life on the problem of generating useful
       | multi-platform code from a GUI tool and integrating it into
       | designer and developer workflows. Before giving up I made React
       | Studio (https://reactstudio.com) which is owned by my co-founders
       | now.
       | 
       | It's insanely difficult. Nobody's needs are exactly the same, and
       | nobody can agree even on the basics of how a web app is
       | structured: where does CSS go, how do you update your global
       | data, etc.
       | 
       | The abstractions I had to build to handle that then increased the
       | learning curve to such levels that it became more like a CAD tool
       | where you'd practically need to train teams into a new way of
       | thinking for them to become productive. Having traction with a
       | few customers never seemed to translate into something scalable.
       | (Maybe with an actual sales team an enterprise strategy could
       | have worked.)
       | 
       | My original version of the product was a mobile-only UI tool that
       | generated native code for iOS and Android. In retrospect that was
       | a better product than trying to expand into full-blown web apps.
       | In native, a button is a button and a tab bar is a tab bar (with
       | small differences between UIKit and Android); in web anything can
       | be anything, and it's a point of pride to reinvent the basics
       | constantly, so a tool must somehow adapt to the shifting tides of
       | how CSS must look this year.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Yeah I can learn a lot from React Studio--I think a lot about
         | keeping the learning curve down for growth, so I'm glad you
         | pointed that out. I'm focusing on enterprise sales next and
         | actively looking for people to help with that, so again I think
         | you're right. Thanks for the feedback!
        
           | ed wrote:
           | > enterprise sales
           | 
           | +1. Most devs would keep building but really sales is the
           | right move. Product looks great! GL finding your customer and
           | early revenue.
        
           | pavlov wrote:
           | You're welcome, and I hope you crack this -- the industry is
           | stuck in a local maximum with tools based on what are
           | essentially 1970s concepts (unstructured code-as-text and
           | unstructured vector graphics).
           | 
           | Two more random thoughts on this topic...
           | 
           | I've long felt there's an important role missing in our
           | industry. Architects don't draw a bunch of facade sketches,
           | ask people if they look good, and then send them to
           | construction engineers to figure out what the beige box in
           | the drawing might actually mean. But that's how a lot of
           | software is made. The problem is that we only have designers
           | and programmers. The construction industry has many kind of
           | design engineering roles in the middle, and they have
           | specialized tools.
           | 
           | In my mind, the missing role is something like an interaction
           | architect. Someone who emphatically is not a graphic designer
           | nor a front-end developer, but an expert on the structure of
           | applications, how UX affordances translate into maintainable
           | and accessible UI structures, etc. (This is the kind of role
           | I hoped to enable with React Studio, but it was a failure and
           | I'm too burned out from the experience to ever try again,
           | probably.)
           | 
           | The second thing I wanted to note is a warning example. I
           | worked a couple of years at Facebook, and they had an
           | internal React GUI design tool that was one of the best I've
           | ever seen. Yet it was discontinued last year. The replacement
           | was basically "We'll somehow make Figma do this eventually",
           | which disappointed the people who had come to depend on the
           | internal tool.
           | 
           | Facebook/Meta is known for having some of the best internal
           | tools in the industry, and spending a lot of resources to
           | make those tools better. Why didn't it work out? My guess is
           | that the team required to build this complexity was too large
           | and projected usage was too low to justify development... But
           | it's a worrying sign that even Facebook couldn't make this
           | kind of tooling work. There was a captive audience of users
           | who could have been required to adopt the software if the
           | benefits were large enough. But it just didn't seem to cross
           | the treshold from "interesting, very cool achievement" to
           | "compelling, we'll fall behind if we don't use this."
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | Seems interesting. As a note, I am not able to view the video on
       | an iPad. (Not complaining. Just FYI.)
        
       | lordofgibbons wrote:
       | I'm seeing a MIME type not supported for the video on Android
       | Firefox
        
       | simonmorg wrote:
       | The website does not tell me much. With this tool, what are the
       | optimum use cases?
       | 
       | I don't mind tools, such as low code platforms, that simplify the
       | dev process for simple tasks - like Budibase for example. But I
       | think these tools need purpose and an understanding of their
       | capabilities - it would be good to know what aspect is best at.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | echopom wrote:
       | I'm a bit fed up with those "IDE" for web attempts.
       | 
       | Every 9 Month or so , we get a new attempt at fixing Web Dev lack
       | of Visual Feedback and productivity issues.
       | 
       | The typical coder behind this type of project get "Mental
       | Fatigue/ Coder Exhaust" after 6 Months as they generally ignore
       | the complexity behind building such product and end up abandoning
       | the project....
       | 
       | There is a google graveyard , but we should also build an "Front
       | IDE / Webviewer" graveyard.
       | 
       | The only one I recall without googling anything : Deco[0] and
       | PreVue[1]
       | 
       | [0]https://www.decoide.org/ [1]https://github.com/open-source-
       | labs/PreVue
       | 
       | HN could you complete my comment with others "Front IDE /
       | Webwiever" that have been abandoned ?
       | 
       | Pretty sure there is more than a dozen.
        
         | pendar747 wrote:
         | Despite your negative tone, I think you have a point. There are
         | many project like this. I'm working on another one at the
         | moment and I have compiled a long list of similar projects.
         | There is definitely a need for a tool that can create UIs
         | visually. IMO such a tool needs to have interoperability with
         | code, as in changes to the code reflect in the tool and changes
         | in the tool make reflect back in the code.
         | 
         | We haven't succeeded in creating an intuitive and robust enough
         | tool that accomplishes this, but that doesn't mean that it's
         | impossible. It's a technical challenge which can be overcome.
        
         | hutzlibu wrote:
         | Do you also have concrete criticism of this project or just
         | generic general complaints about the topic?
         | 
         | Yes, there are many attempts trying to fix the problem, that
         | designing requires coding and yes, that is a very, very hard
         | problem to do right.
         | 
         | But just shitting on something because you feel bitter about
         | the topic (or whatever your motivation is) probably won't lead
         | to anything interesting.
        
           | upupandup wrote:
           | Think he's point was that GUI products in this space is
           | extremely difficult to get it right due to the explosion of
           | edge cases and general complexity.
           | 
           | There have been other React IDEs in the past, and they've
           | faded off into obscurity because of factors I am not familiar
           | with but one in which parent's comment is alluding to, the
           | hidden rise of technical debt for last mile problems and
           | custom requirements.
           | 
           | Think we are dealing really with RAD vs traditional waterfall
           | coding approaches. Both have ups and downs but the big
           | drawdown is the stockholm syndrome effect that comes with
           | relying on some other party for RAD.
        
           | polydevil wrote:
           | Well, is says that the website itself was build by the tool.
           | Non-semantic tags, divs instead of links, buttons instead of
           | links, a lot of inline styles (which is a bad practice), deep
           | nesting. So inline styles will make caching css impossible,
           | so high load times, not good for performance. Deep nesting
           | makes the problem even worse. So the result is a slow bloated
           | inaccessible code, but the result may look ok. If all you
           | want is a pretty picture - than yeah, it is a great tool.
           | 
           | I prefer this approach - https://github.com/seek-oss/playroom
           | Just create your components and add them to the sandbox and
           | allow your designers to play with them.
        
         | tgv wrote:
         | It's not just fatigue. I also have such a project. It allows
         | you to build using bootstrap, but with expressions, loops,
         | conditions and a data store. It would be pretty easy to make a
         | Vue version of it. It's a structural editor though, but it
         | offers a graphical preview with limited interaction. But it's
         | not good enough for the general public, and I'm not going to
         | finish it, only to see the project linger somewhere in a
         | obscure corner of the internet, or -worse- attract some
         | attention and get a bunch of idiots making demands and threats.
        
         | thomasfromcdnjs wrote:
         | I don't think the criticism is wrong.
         | 
         | Though it would seem that something in this space will
         | eventually attract a decent user base.
         | 
         | I'm basing that thought off the idea that Dreamweaver and
         | others were once useful to different groups.
        
         | robenkleene wrote:
         | At face value this seems like it could apply to a bunch of
         | different categories (e.g., another text editor, another todo
         | list, another chat app, etc...)? Yes, most new software in
         | every category fails, but every once in awhile one succeeds,
         | and that's how we make progress. The failures along the way
         | just seem like a necessary byproduct of progress.
        
           | delhanty wrote:
           | >Yes, most new software in every category fails, but every
           | once in awhile one succeeds, and that's how we make progress.
           | 
           | +100
           | 
           | Also, I'm rather uncomfortable when a "Show HN" gets dumped
           | upon - furthermore with no actual specific criticism, let
           | alone advice on how to improve.
           | 
           | What happened to that "Be kind. Don't be snarky." from the
           | guidelines?
        
             | echopom wrote:
             | It was never my intention to be "shitting" on anyone.
             | 
             | Just a feeling of exasperation when seeing the product.
             | 
             | Someone in the comments confirmed what I said
             | 
             | Created an equivalent for bootstrap but abandoned it for
             | the reasons I have written.
        
               | delhanty wrote:
               | > Just a feeling of exasperation when seeing the product.
               | 
               | Well maybe you're not the target market then? It looks
               | like a no-code rather than low-code effort, and I'm
               | hazarding a guess that you're a dev and so ...
               | 
               | > It was never my intention to be "shitting" on anyone.
               | 
               | I'm sure that you didn't.
               | 
               | Here's the thing: this is a "Show HN" - somebody has been
               | brave enough to show their new thing to the community.
               | People vary - some are much more sensitive than average,
               | particularly in a community like this that self-
               | identifies as not-average, and will take the mildest
               | criticism very personally.
               | 
               | If something's not for you, there's always the option of
               | not commenting, or at least starting out by saying
               | something encouraging to soften the blow.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html#comments
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | lfkdev wrote:
         | Where exactly is now your problem with IDE's for webs?
        
       | edwinyzh wrote:
       | First, congrats to your new project! Secondly, although it's not
       | for react, but that's exactly the same reason why I have
       | developed http://liveditor.com some years ago! The idea was that
       | the css inspector/tweaker and the code editor should be combined
       | together and working together seamlessly.
       | 
       | PS, I know the software might have some little issues but I'm
       | going to update it soon ;)
        
         | ghostbrainalpha wrote:
         | This feels like home to me, as I was once a Dreamweaver.
        
       | dimgl wrote:
       | I like the ambition. Great project. Best of luck to you. I see
       | big things coming your way.
        
       | varispeed wrote:
       | These visual tools never clicked with me. There is always a point
       | that you need to code something "manually" and then switching
       | back and forth is just tedious (and if you are lucky that your
       | code doesn't break the tool) to the point it makes no sense to
       | use such a visual tool. Maybe this is different though. I wish it
       | was possible to try without having to set up an account.
        
       | claudiojulio wrote:
       | Just because I don't like to do things in a way, it doesn't mean
       | my way is the only right. Congratulations to the project creator.
       | I wish you much success!
        
       | _steady wrote:
       | As someone who doesn't like to watch videos, i'd have loved some
       | text content on this or any page explaining the proposition
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Got it, added some explanatory copy. Accompanying image
         | examples following soon.
        
       | DoctorOW wrote:
       | This is a really cool idea. I'm not super into React, so take it
       | with a grain of salt when i say I'm surprised I haven't seen
       | something like this sooner. :)
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Thanks!
        
       | animal_spirits wrote:
       | This looks really interesting! I like seeing more domain specific
       | IDEs coming out
        
       | simon_000666 wrote:
       | I want this - but mobile first.
       | 
       | Whenever I'm sitting on a bus or train for a short trip that
       | doesn't warrant bringing a laptop but there is a simple little
       | tweak that could be made in 10 mins. I would like to use a tool
       | like this designed to be used on a mobile device.
       | 
       | Also I think then people who only have mobile devices could also
       | create their own software.
       | 
       | It grates on me that in order to build mobile web applications
       | you need a laptop or desktop.
        
       | jesushax wrote:
       | Bravo. Soon, developing point-and-click, drag-and-drop apps will
       | be almost as easy as it was in 1998 with Visual Basic 6.
       | 
       | I (mostly) jest, but yeah, this is marvelous. I'm developing a
       | small React app this weekend, I'll use this and make sure to
       | report any bugs or issues along the way.
       | 
       | Thanks a lot for making something that makes other people (me!)
       | excited!
        
         | code_witch_sam wrote:
         | or winforms and C#!
         | 
         | tbf, building a ui with an absolutely-positioned, pixel-bound
         | presentation engine was AWFUL without a designer. anyone work
         | with Win32 APIs back in the day? 60 lines of code just to open
         | a window without even drawing anything on it!
         | 
         | building a ui in code is a lot easier with flow layout and a
         | good component library
        
       | tmcw wrote:
       | > "Aspect is built using Aspect"
       | 
       | That is extremely impressive.
        
         | spyremeown wrote:
         | Agreed. Bootstrapping your code with your own code shows a lot
         | of self-reliance and belief in the product.
        
       | throwntoday wrote:
       | Is it really that tough to Cmd+Tab then Cmd+R?
       | 
       | All jokes aside, good job. Creating tools to solve problems is
       | always fun.
        
         | Xevi wrote:
         | I even have the browser and code on the monitor at the same
         | time. And with pretty much all modern web frameworks you have a
         | dev server that automatically does hot module replacement, so
         | you instantly see your changes without reloading anything
         | yourself.
        
           | nkozyra wrote:
           | I've never seen a hot reload that worked fast enough to not
           | be annoying.
           | 
           | React does it all quickly when all it's re processing is css
           | but anything js related and it seems not to be able to
           | treeshake down to bare minimum updates.
           | 
           | We're talking 750ms to 1.5s, and I admit it's still a marvel
           | compared to things I used to have to deal with, but it's
           | still enough to feel cludgy.
           | 
           | Flutter is another example of this. It's not _slow_ but if
           | I'm sitting there waiting for even a bit I'm less likely to
           | use the feature as an incremental tool rather than batch a
           | bunch of things before looking or tabbing over.
        
             | randomsearch wrote:
             | > I've never seen a hot reload that worked fast enough to
             | not be annoying.
             | 
             | Then you, my friend, have never used Vite.
        
             | dmix wrote:
             | I use a vue dev server daily (both with webpack previously
             | and now with the way faster vite) and it's pretty much
             | instant.
             | 
             | These projects only recompile the code that changes, then
             | via chunking the browser only reloads a tiny specific .js
             | file that contained that one component matching the vue-
             | route, so usually 10-30kb refresh (and it loads about ~10x
             | small .js files per page), which happens before I can tab
             | back or notice when widescreened.
             | 
             | Previously when I used the slower Webpack without chunking
             | it started to take time when the project grew large. But
             | that was long ago (3 years ago?).
        
             | FractalHQ wrote:
             | As a Svelte developer, I can't remember the last time I had
             | to work _without_ an instant HMR with optical state
             | preservation. That sounds like a nightmare and a huge
             | productivity killer.
        
       | eurasiantiger wrote:
       | The Web is a wide audience. How do you design visually for the
       | people who cannot see? In other words, how does this tool ensure
       | that a site built using it remains accessible at WCAG2.1 A or AA
       | level?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | foxbee wrote:
       | This looks really neat. Your branding is awesome, and the website
       | is clean, but requires a lot more content for me to take this
       | product for a spin.
        
       | cercatrova wrote:
       | Any thoughts on Framer? They seem to do the design aspect as well
       | as the site-building aspect.
       | 
       | https://www.framer.com
       | 
       | https://www.framer.com/sites
        
       | NoXero wrote:
       | I would like to start off by saying this is a very cool idea, and
       | I can see the hard work and ingenuity that went into this effort.
       | I think it is especially impressive if this is a solo endeavor.
       | However, as someone who has quite a bit of experience with React,
       | a tool like this I could see getting in my way. I don't see this
       | being particularly helpful, maybe for prototyping for designers.
       | It looks like a solution looking for a problem to me, honestly.
       | Anyway, at least it is cool, and shows off your skill! Thanks for
       | sharing.
        
       | elanning wrote:
       | Great idea. I think UI/UX designers would love a tool like this.
       | Especially if they could import React components made by the
       | development department.
        
         | krono wrote:
         | It is not a unique concept, but there's absolutely room for
         | another implementation/offering.
         | 
         | Some of the more popular existing ones Framer-X (funny landing
         | page copy claiming it is entirely unique) and Modulz:
         | 
         | https://designcode.io/framer-x
         | 
         | https://www.modulz.app/
        
           | schkolne wrote:
           | Here are some other exciting products in the space:
           | https://www.plasmic.app/ https://www.builder.io/
           | https://clutch.io/ https://builderx.io/
           | https://dynaboard.com/ Each one has a slightly different take
           | on the problem, and some of these are turning out to be quite
           | useful for teams. I'm very curious to see how things will
           | shape up. I find Aspect to be particularly beautiful, a nice
           | clean UI great work!
        
         | dgb23 wrote:
         | If the components are headless. Otherwise it makes more sense
         | to do it the other way around. Designers write components that
         | just render stuff, which then gets wired up by devs to be
         | state/effectful.
        
           | danielvaughn wrote:
           | This is what I'm doing. I've been building a "programming
           | language" for UI designers. The idea is that they just
           | describe the visual behavior, and then devs can wire it up
           | with business logic.
        
       | noduerme wrote:
       | This is super cool. If I worked in React I would love the ability
       | to build most of an MVC through a GUI like this and avoid the
       | waste of time.
       | 
       | I really hate React, though. Throwing logic into HTML and JSX...
       | just feels so hackish. Like, if I want to alter states on a thing
       | in the DOM, I want all that logic in the JS in one neat class,
       | not mixed with control flow in a template somewhere else. /rant
       | 
       | Still, I think a front-end like this could actually make it a lot
       | friendlier for newbs and also save a ton of time for people who
       | have to work in what I consider a nightmare of a stack... either
       | way it looks like a samurai level piece of code that will be
       | appreciated.
        
         | tepitoperrito wrote:
         | You might not hate react, you might just be holding it wrong.
         | 
         | A component could represent a discrete entity or thing you'd
         | like to alter the state of. You might be able to handle that
         | all locally in that component but beyond this limited case
         | don't try to shoehorn state management into a view library.
         | 
         | I highly recommend spending a few minutes getting to know MobX
         | which I think maps very well to the concept of business logic
         | and state encapsulated (in one class if you'd like) and
         | seperated from the view layer.
        
           | noduerme wrote:
           | I built my own "reactive" stack a decade ago and just keep
           | refining it. I wanted to de-couple template HTML from visual
           | logic, and visual logic from business logic. So I model
           | everything on components within components, they all
           | bootstrap whatever DOM templates they need and inherit the
           | same basic methods, and it's all tied together with an event
           | model that handles long polling and push updates but,
           | crucially, does _not_ do anything in the basic HTML templates
           | other than adding a couple attributes like  "role='photo-
           | button'" where you need them. Server updates cascade to each
           | JS component which updates the things it thinks need to be
           | updated at a given time. It's more hand-coded, but it's
           | easier to read and a lot easier to micro-manage.
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | Just a few days ago someone posted some snarky HN comments on
         | React's initial release thread talking exactly about HTML and
         | JSX being hackish, and all I could think was "well... it is."
         | The popularity and success of a project doesn't mean that all
         | its core assumptions/opinions are good, only that the project
         | is popular and successful.
         | 
         | Vue isn't perfect but I much prefer how it still lets you
         | separate out various concerns. If it had half (or even 1/3) the
         | community React does I think it could surpass React.
        
           | noduerme wrote:
           | >>The popularity and success of a project
           | 
           | I think React (and Vue) are popular and successful because
           | they meet 80% of the needs 80% of the time, and that's what
           | you want and need from frameworks that are trying to do
           | everything for everybody. They also make it a lot easier to
           | go from a 6-month course into a low level coding job, and
           | corporations are happier because the parts are more
           | replaceable. In my mind, they're rather limited and hard to
           | work with if you want to do anything outside the box, but
           | there are always going to be frameworks because they solve
           | the most common problems quickly.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | chunkyslink wrote:
       | Thanks for submitting this it was interesting to see. Is this an
       | old project because the video example uses React Classes rather
       | than functional components and hooks.
        
         | tscepo wrote:
         | Ah I used React classes out of habit--will update the exporter
         | to output hooks instead. Thanks for the heads up!
        
           | Doches wrote:
           | Since you already have an exporter that produces class-style
           | React components, it seems like it would be nice to have the
           | option of class or functional components. I've worked on
           | projects with strictly class-based components, strictly
           | functional components, and a mix of both. Would certainly be
           | nice to be able to select between the two flavours of
           | exported components, and would make it easier to sell the
           | decision to use Aspect-designed components in more codebases!
           | 
           | (Our reasons for preferring one flavour or another usually
           | depends on some combination of legacy-ness of the project
           | (older -> prefer class components for consistency),
           | complexity (simpler -> prefer functional components), and
           | experience of the team (more junior -> prefer functional).
           | YMMV, etc.)
        
       | bananapear wrote:
       | Would be nice to be able to try it out or see a demo without
       | having to create an account and log in
        
       | epberry wrote:
       | I just want to say that I love Aspect. I have 3 projects on here,
       | 2 of which are live: https://everettberry.com/ and
       | https://prcvlabs.org/.
        
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