[HN Gopher] OP-1 field
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       OP-1 field
        
       Author : bpierre
       Score  : 263 points
       Date   : 2022-05-12 08:38 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (teenage.engineering)
 (TXT) w3m dump (teenage.engineering)
        
       | psychomugs wrote:
       | It would be amazing, and not too unlike TE, if they released some
       | of these features as updates to the original OP-1. I'm
       | particularly interested in the new tape recording styles.
        
       | YoyoyoPCP wrote:
       | The OP-1 has been the single most inspiring tool I've had in a
       | decade. Every other sampler I've bought has always failed to
       | reliably draw me in.
       | 
       | There is no putting a price on creativity. Sure, the competition
       | can compete on specs and price, but they never seem to get me to
       | want to turn them on like the OP-1.
       | 
       | Just my opinion of course. But it is already a classic at this
       | point and is deserving of respect.
        
       | tmountain wrote:
       | I owned and sold an OP-1. It is a beautiful piece of hardware and
       | its analog controls and mashable buttons provide a more tactile
       | experience than an iPad does.
       | 
       | That said, the sounds it ships with really leave something to be
       | desired. My subjective opinion is that anyone who's played with a
       | best in class software synth (i.e., equator2) is going to find
       | themselves feeling pretty limited by the blippy tones that you
       | get out of the box.
       | 
       | Sure, you can load up the sampler with tons of cool tones and
       | op1.fun is a wonderful resource, but it's a lot of work to go
       | curate a bunch of sounds to compensate for a lackluster palette.
       | 
       | I can already hear people saying that I'm missing the point and
       | that the constraints are designed to inspire creativity, etc. I
       | respect that point of view, but at the end of the day, my
       | creative time is at a premium, and I'd like to use that time to
       | create stuff that I'm proud to show friends and family.
       | 
       | Most of the stuff I produced with the OP-1 sounded like video
       | game music or music for a kid's cartoon (i.e., Adventure Time).
       | If that's your thing, then awesome! If not, I'd consider the core
       | tonal possibilities before you make a big investment.
        
         | chaosprint wrote:
         | I am wondering if you can recall that whether one can create
         | complex rhythm like this on OP-1?
         | 
         | https://glicol-tidal.netlify.app
         | 
         | The BPM can be changed in real-time and not limited to 4, 8,
         | 16, 32 grids of sequences.
        
           | andkon wrote:
           | This was like five years ago that I had one, but as far as I
           | remember, OP-1 isn't grid-based (though maybe some of the
           | instruments are?). It's basically like a four track tape
           | mixer. You can loop bar-by-bar, and then copy from bar to
           | bar. And you can stretch time in the same way that you would
           | with a reel-to-reel tape deck. But as far as I remember it
           | won't transpose / warp the sounds along with the change in
           | BPM.
        
         | freerobby wrote:
         | Agree about the built-in sounds, but I solved that pretty
         | quickly by adding things like mellotron samples to it.
        
         | tarentel wrote:
         | As someone who produces electronic music I kind of dig the
         | limitations of the op-1. At a 2k price point though with those
         | limitations in mind I can't justify the price. Even at ~1300 or
         | whatever the old model is going for I can't justify the price.
         | For cheaper you can get both a digitakt and a digitone, which I
         | own the latter, and they sound 1000 times better than the op-1
         | although each respectively do quite a lot less. I was actually
         | pretty excited to see this until I saw the price. I have spent
         | a lot of money on electronic music gear, way more than 2000,
         | and I'm a bit baffled about who this is for exactly.
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | > Even at ~1300 or whatever the old model is going for [...]
           | you can get both a digitakt and a digitone
           | 
           | You could probably get an iPad, a USB midi dongle, a midi
           | keyboard, and a whole suite of software for that, too.
        
             | weatherlight wrote:
             | but then you are using software....on an iPad :/
             | 
             | (Which is totally valid if that what you want from your
             | musical instruments)
             | 
             | People buy gear because they like a workflow and the UX/UI
             | tactile choices a particular designer/ brand decided to
             | highlight.
             | 
             | I love Elektron devices and I enjoy patching away on
             | Eurorack. I'm pretty sure there's VSTS out there that will
             | do 99.9% of the sound design I do with that gear, but then
             | i'd be using an iPad or a laptop to do that... and that
             | just completely kills the mood :/
             | 
             | People should (with in their means) obtain they musical
             | instruments that allow them to create music :)
        
             | dmcginty wrote:
             | And for the $2000 MSRP of the OP-1 Field you could buy a
             | brand new 13" MacBook Pro, an Ableton Live Standard 11
             | license, a Scarlett Solo audio interface, an M-Audio
             | Keystation 49 USB MIDI controller, and still have some
             | money left over.
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | That's like telling someone that for the price of a new
               | BMW S1000RR motorcycle, they can instead buy a really
               | good Honda Civic, because a Honda Civic can carry more
               | passengers, you can sleep in it, it is more reliable,
               | safer, cheaper to service, holds resale value better,
               | more versatile when it comes to different weather
               | conditions, etc. You are missing the point that those in
               | the market for BMW S1000RR are often aware of all those
               | factual advantages that a Honda Civic has, they just
               | prioritize different factors in their choices than you
               | might. Someone who is looking to buy a motorcycle isn't
               | gonna suddenly be swayed by looking into all the factual
               | advantages a Honda Civic can provide over a motorcycle.
               | 
               | Despite both items serving fundamentally the same base
               | purpose (getting from point A to point B for
               | cars/motorcycles; making music for OP-1/your list), and
               | one of them is cheaper overall and on paper has a lot of
               | factual advantages, they might simply prioritize
               | different things and both be extremely good at different
               | things they prioritize. I, personally, love the workflow
               | of the original OP-1 way more than almost the exact list
               | you produced (because it used to be pretty much my setup,
               | except I used a different midi controller).
        
         | evo_9 wrote:
         | Yeah I agree, it's not really a great choice as your 'main
         | synth'. I think it's really meant to be a self-contained
         | portable 'music sketchpad'. I owned 2 at one point thinking
         | maybe that was the issue, I like to double up my gear (for
         | example I like to use two TB-303 layered); when that didn't
         | work out the way I hoped on the OP1s I sold them and both were
         | bought separately by traveling musicians that wanted something
         | to noodle with/ sketch with while on tour buses, or killing
         | time at the hotel.
         | 
         | So I think it's a funny product that has a lot of 'nerd appeal'
         | but at its heart it's a pretty powerful devices, maybe often
         | miss-used.
         | 
         | Also - having played with both 'hardware' and VST's I do prefer
         | VSTs because of the ease of use; aka you can reload a track in
         | seconds in Live versus spending 30+ repatching your gear,
         | swooping out gear, etc (and then it's still not quite the same,
         | but that's part of the magic of 'real hardware' I suppose).
         | 
         | But at the end of the day the music I created with VST's versus
         | real hardware wasn't different at all sonically so I am 100% in
         | the camp of VSTs are awesome.
         | 
         | That said, you need to be careful selecting a VST.They go
         | 'stale' and become a liability, so for example if I open up
         | projects from 5+ years back, almost none of them work now. So
         | going forward, I'm going to be more careful, and probably buy
         | VST's only from companies I expect to be around for the long
         | haul.
        
           | tmountain wrote:
           | You're making a good point about VST compatibility over time.
           | One way to at least ensure a track remains playable is to
           | bounce your midi tracks to separate audio tracks (waveform).
           | Clearly, you lose the flexibility that comes with
           | manipulating the original score, but you're guaranteed to be
           | able to playback, eq, and mix the original performance. Not
           | ideal, but better than nothing.
        
             | evo_9 wrote:
             | True, I've done that too, but you're right it's obviously a
             | limited way to go about it.
             | 
             | It's funny, I kinda feel like this is what the OP1 was
             | trying to be, or maybe what I wanted it to be, but this
             | actually delivers on that promise. I want one:
             | https://polyend.com/play/
        
           | nkingsy wrote:
           | Korg Module is the best noodler out there and it's 20 bucks.
           | I've tried a few portable hardware sequencers, but module on
           | my phone fits the bill so much better.
           | 
           | Just finished a verse and got halfway through a chorus on a
           | 30 minute ferry ride and I didn't even have to remember to
           | bring anything but my phone.
        
             | weinzierl wrote:
             | Have you tried the Korg Kaossilator? It's 20 bucks upfront
             | and so far I didn't want to spend that without being able
             | to try it. The description sounds cool though.
        
       | malthaus wrote:
       | I'm convinced TE is just a show case for pricing consultants
        
       | krnlpnc wrote:
       | I was so excited to see the announcement! Finally some new OP-1
       | stock will drive the prices back down to the original ~$700 mark.
       | Nope!
       | 
       | On what planet is this actually worth $2000?
       | 
       | I'm really disappointed to see TE become this lifestyle company
       | and continue jacking up their prices.
        
         | nathanvanfleet wrote:
         | I feel like I have also seen this in the espresso community.
         | Companies sprung up that are address a boutique audience that
         | ultimately seems to be best-in-class but also charge some
         | astronomical prices.
        
         | cxcorp wrote:
         | The hi-fi audiophile world is certainly an expensive one.
        
         | spoonjim wrote:
         | TE is following the Apple playbook to a T: fanatical obsession
         | with appearance/image/brand positioning PLUS absolutely
         | excellent engineering PLUS extreme price markups. The result is
         | a product that has a bananas price tag but also has no real
         | substitutes.
        
         | 999900000999 wrote:
         | An iPad Mini + a Bluetooth midi keyboard will do anything this
         | can do better and easier.
         | 
         | You pay for the brand and to say on Twitter that you use
         | hardware
        
         | 323 wrote:
         | > see TE become this lifestyle company
         | 
         | TE always was a lifestyle company. All their products,
         | including their gaming device, are about looking cool. Which is
         | why device thinness is extremely important and the first thing
         | they talk about. Just like Apple.
         | 
         | You don't buy a TE device to actually make music, you buy it to
         | impress people about how creative you are, how you are not a
         | pleb consumerist.
        
           | yunwal wrote:
           | I feel like looking cool is definitely a factor, but the OP-1
           | is also about being portable and fitting into your lifestyle.
           | Photographers will tell you that "the best camera is the one
           | you have with you", and the OP-1 is like the phone camera of
           | music. It's like a step up from singing into a voice memo.
           | You can use it to capture ideas reasonably accurately
           | whenever you feel inspired, and refine them later at an
           | actual workstation.
           | 
           | Obviously not everyone will think this is worth $2000, and
           | there's definitely an element of status symbol there, but
           | I've genuinely enjoyed owning one.
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | But the distribution is important.
             | 
             | The fact that there are some cyclists which actually need a
             | $20k bike doesn't mean that the majority of $20k bike
             | buyers are not doing it just for status (the famed dentist
             | cyclists).
        
           | gaws wrote:
        
       | stephc_int13 wrote:
       | The problem with TE is that they are building top quality toys,
       | not tools.
       | 
       | Maybe those toys can be used as tools in some niche context, but
       | as a non-musician I wouldn't know.
       | 
       | I'd love to see them selling a more general purpose pocket
       | computer, with the same high quality design and even the hefty
       | price tag.
       | 
       | A pocket computer made for hackers (the tinkering kind)
        
         | geoffeg wrote:
         | I wouldn't go so far as to call the OP-1 a toy. The interface
         | is definitely limiting but it's also whimsical. I use mine as a
         | kind of stress relief tool. It's small, self-contained design
         | means I can put my laptop away and focus on playing around and
         | creating music.
        
         | amazing_stories wrote:
         | As someone who has written a lot of music using Pocket
         | Operators I disagree. They have been part of my songwriting
         | tool chain for years and have pretty much worked their way into
         | every recording I've made since I bought them. They are the
         | perfect accompaniment when sitting down with a guitar to write
         | music either acting as a metronome, a groove to jam over, or a
         | complete drum/bass/synth backup with an arrangement (16
         | patterns and 128 measures is enough to write a good song).
         | Also, Pocket Operators are cheap as hell, most under $100.
        
           | agentwiggles wrote:
           | What's your favorite PO? (or even a couple favorites)
           | 
           | I loved playing with the one I have (I can't remember which
           | it is off the top of my head). But it never became a major
           | part of my music noodling workflow and now is collecting dust
           | somewhere.
           | 
           | I do remember at some point that a friend got a different one
           | and I was struck with jealousy over all the cool stuff it
           | could do that mine didn't. Maybe it's time to check out a
           | different one. Any recommendations?
        
             | asimovfan wrote:
             | po-33 is the best one. the sampler. so powerful and so
             | cheap.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | It's called the Playdate.
         | 
         | https://play.date/dev/
        
           | hypertele-Xii wrote:
           | _General purpose_ pocket computer, he said.
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | The demand was "more general purpose", though. The Playdate
             | has an SDK and apps. The OP1 does not. I think it applies.
             | :)
        
           | stephc_int13 wrote:
           | Yeah, this completely the opposite.
           | 
           | Two buttons, no peripherals, clearly a toy.
        
         | _def wrote:
         | In a creative context/process I think it is a good thing if you
         | can toy around with a device/instrument in a playful way. I'd
         | definitely love if they would make their devices hackable
         | though, that would unlock so much potential and the community
         | is there.
        
       | blueblob wrote:
       | As someone not in the field of audio engineering, I had no idea
       | what this product is. The website focused on describing all the
       | features without giving a simple 1-2 line description of what the
       | product even is.
        
         | luckydata wrote:
         | it's the kind of thing that if you don't know it's not for you.
         | very hipster product for weird electronic musicians, more of a
         | fashion statement than anything else really.
        
       | bravura wrote:
       | The people complaining about the price tag: I get it.
       | 
       | But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can
       | bring on an airplane and write a whole song.
       | 
       | Why has no one else figured that out? With all these groove boxes
       | etc, why has no other music gear taken the step of being portable
       | and all-in-one.
       | 
       | Show me another way to write a song in an airplane, and you can
       | have my money.
        
         | 16 wrote:
         | https://dirtywave.com/
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | ds0 wrote:
         | What's lovely about this post is that it follows the rule of
         | bold claims producing interesting counters. Here's my hat in
         | the ring: I have had a really good time with the Elektron
         | Model: Samples. It's among the cheapest grooveboxes and comes
         | with all the effects, parameter locks, and preloaded samples
         | you need to do some great things.
        
         | papandada wrote:
         | I know it's not the same class, or what you mean, but gosh darn
         | have I enjoyed making music with the $10 caustic android app.
        
         | krnlpnc wrote:
         | > OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can bring
         | on an airplane and write a whole song.
         | 
         | Laptops exist too. And also who is writing whole songs on the
         | OP-1? A song needs to be bounced, mastered and uploaded which
         | is gonna require another device.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | A $999 Macbook Air costs half as much and has all of the same
         | production capabilities and then some.
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
         | > But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you
         | can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.
         | 
         | This is just false, the Korg Electribe 2/ Sampler, the AKAI MPC
         | 500, the Roland SP404, the Roland MC101, the Novation Circuit
         | and many other devices allow the creation of whole songs and
         | can easily be brought into a plane because they run on internal
         | battery.
         | 
         | > Why has no one else figured that out? With all these groove
         | boxes etc, why has no other music gear taken the step of being
         | portable and all-in-one.
         | 
         | These devices I listed might not do everything the OP-1 does,
         | but the OP-1 doesn't do everything these devices do either. The
         | OP-1 is hardly an all-in-one music device and certainly not the
         | first portable groovebox that runs off battery power.
         | 
         | A Electribe 2/Sampler costs $300, not $2000.
         | 
         | > Show me another way to write a song in an airplane, and you
         | can have my money.
         | 
         | Answer my comment and I'll share with you my email for payment
         | details. Put your money where your mouth is.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | > Why has no one else figured that out?
         | 
         | It is literally not the only piece of music gear you can bring
         | on a airplane and write a whole song...
         | 
         | Just a recent example, the Syntakt is very capable for writing
         | full songs. So is other gear in the Elektron lineup, namely
         | Digitakt.
         | 
         | Otherwise you also have (cheaper) gear like the Novation
         | Circuit Tracks that can also do the same.
         | 
         | I mean, a cursory search for "portable grooveboxes" should have
         | revealed a ton of results for you, that are able to do the same
         | job as the OP-1 but for even as low as 1/4 of the price (the
         | Circuit Tracks)
        
           | blub wrote:
           | The Syntakt is not battery powered. I guess one could buy a
           | beefy battery pack and adapter cable, but... what's the
           | point?
           | 
           | The Tracks is nice, but the synth engines are not fully
           | accessible in the hw interface. At least the params are
           | labeled now, trying to change sounds on my original was quite
           | frustrating.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | True that the Syntakt is not battery powered, when needed I
             | run it on a battery bank (allowed to bring on the airplane)
             | + PD cable. The point is being able to use the same gear I
             | use in the studio but for jams where electricity available
             | is not great, or being able to bring it wherever I go, as I
             | consider the device itself portable, especially considering
             | its larger cousins (like the A4, AR or even Octatrack).
             | 
             | Yeah, not being able to 100% customize the synths on the
             | Tracks is bothering me as well. Luckily, my workflow is
             | usually two parts that I do separate. One for sound design
             | (with the Tracks hooked up to the computer) and one for
             | everything else. For that, it does just fine, although the
             | UX could be better for editing the synths.
        
         | lvl102 wrote:
         | It's called Macbook with Logic Pro.
         | 
         | You can send your money directly to Apple.
        
           | arvinsim wrote:
           | You can even do it on an iPad!
        
             | lvl102 wrote:
             | That's actually better because you have a virtual key bed.
             | I've heard that Apple will release Logic for iOS later this
             | year.
        
         | romwell wrote:
         | >But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can
         | bring on an airplane and write a whole song. Show me another
         | way to write a song in an airplane, and you can have my money.
         | 
         | Assuming you mean _without using a phone, computer, or a
         | tablet_ :
         | 
         | Yamaha Reface DX ($400) + Korg SOS Recorder ($100) + TE PO-12
         | Rhythm ($60), and you not only have a portable studio, but a
         | performer's rig.
         | 
         | I'm powering mine from a powerbank via a USB-to-12V adapter, it
         | lasts forever on a charge.
         | 
         | I can busk with Reface DX alone (it's built-in speakers are
         | loud enough for a quiet street). Throw in a mini-amp, and it's
         | a band.
         | 
         | And it comes with an optional keytar strap too, so I cann sling
         | it around my shoulder.
         | 
         |  _And_ it 's the best FM synthesizer ever made. Worth it for
         | the E-Piano patch and Final Countdown-like leads alone, but the
         | real magic comes in realtime manipulation of sound (something
         | you couldn't do with the clunky controls of DX-7).
         | 
         | Yeah, I don't know if it fits your "all-in-one" defitinion, but
         | surely OP-1 doesn't fit _mine_ : it's missing a proper keyboard
         | (my main rig is Yamaha MX-88, and I still say that Reface DX's
         | keyboard is _great_ ).
         | 
         | And with some creative application of electrical tape, the drum
         | machine / field recorder just become upgrades for the Reface
         | DX, giving yout the ultimate unit.
        
         | import wrote:
         | You can bring MPC live 2 on an airplane. It's way more capable
         | thing if you compare with the OP1.
        
         | jwr wrote:
         | > But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you
         | can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.
         | 
         | An iPad running Korg Gadget is much, much more capable, though
         | arguably not as hip and cool.
        
         | blub wrote:
         | There are a ton of replies with counter-examples, but all of
         | those are not exactly like the OP-1: a fun, easy to use,
         | ultraportable, immediate music creation sketchpad.
         | 
         | Many other grooveboxes are quite painful to use. Here I'd
         | include the Korg Electribe which is terrible at inputting
         | musical notes. Or the several trackers which look more like
         | scientific calculators than musical instruments. My MPC live
         | can run circles around most grooveboxes, the OP-1 included, but
         | that's because it's a computer: quite a bit heavier, takes time
         | to boot, requires you to manage projects and adjust many
         | parameters.
         | 
         | The Model Cycles doesn't have a battery. Can be powered by a
         | portable one, but that makes it just a little bit awkward.
         | Elektron did launch a handle battery but it tended to catch
         | fire in rare circumstances :-) Elektron boxes are in general
         | considered difficult to use, even if the results can be
         | impressive.
         | 
         | The Novation Circuit doesn't allow full editing of the synth
         | parameters. The synth parts are more like preset editors.
         | Expect having to manage them from a computer.
         | 
         | The Deluge has a cumbersome buying process, where one has to
         | basically buy from the manufacturer (NZ I think). I actually
         | can't but it from my/any local store. In reviews I've read that
         | the interface is not that user-friendly/immediate.
         | 
         | Then there'a the multi-device set-ups consisting of Volcas,
         | Rolands, etc. These can be nice, but it requires wiring them up
         | every time! If I had to wire together 3 devices before I could
         | make music, I'd rather do something else personally.
         | 
         | And so on and so forth. The new OP-1 is overpriced though.
         | Maybe at 1500EUR this would make some sense, but at this price
         | point most people would rather deal with the disadvantages of
         | other devices or device combos.
        
           | prmoustache wrote:
           | Who cares how trackers look. That doesn't mean you can't have
           | fun producing music with them.
           | 
           | I own a Model:Samples, the battery is just velcro attached to
           | it. This is not awkward, it serves as a tilt stand which is
           | actually nice.
           | 
           | The Deluge buying process involve adding to cart, pay. How
           | different is it from anything else really?
           | 
           | We are talking about boarding a plane? How boot time of the
           | MPC Live/One or a daw on a laptop is relevant?
        
             | seclorum_wien wrote:
             | The Deluge is simply an amazing device, and I can confirm
             | it is definitely not difficult to purchase.
             | 
             | Also, quite a great company support experience too.
        
         | weatherlight wrote:
         | Polyend tracker, any MPC any Elektron groove box, The Roland
         | MC-X0X series, Native Instruments Maschine +, Synthstorm
         | Deluge, etc.
         | 
         | yep... There's quiet a few :)
        
         | aa-jv wrote:
         | I guess you're not yet familiar with the Synthstrom Deluge:
         | 
         | https://synthstrom.com
         | 
         | Far better than the OP-1, by miles ..
         | 
         | See also the 1010music BlackBox:
         | 
         | https://1010music.com/product/blackbox
         | 
         | Easily set up on an airplane seat-table for production.
        
           | agentultra wrote:
           | The Deluge is huge (size-wise) compared to the OP-1 and
           | doesn't run off batteries, have wifi/bluetooth connectivity,
           | sample editing, etc, etc.
           | 
           | It's a nice groovebox but I don't think it really compares.
           | 
           | $2k is a steep price but there's a lot going on here that's
           | not immediately obvious to a lot of folks.
        
             | 613style wrote:
             | The Deluge does have a built-in rechargable battery and
             | basic sample slicing. The new 4.0 firmware added wavetable
             | synthesis, euclidean sequencing, MPE/polyphonic aftertouch,
             | and tons of other stuff. Their venn diagrams overlap a lot
             | but each one has _many_ features the other doesn't.
             | Honestly it's a pretty insane device for half the price and
             | would be my pick too.
        
             | likeclockwork wrote:
             | No, it really isn't. The OP-1 is tiny and Deluge only has
             | twice the surface area. Deluge also has an internal
             | battery.
             | 
             | I can't even imagine how WiFi or Bluetooth would be useful
             | or desirable.
             | 
             | You can do quite a bit with audio on Deluge, as well. Run
             | audio clips of unlimited length. Assign audio samples to
             | kits.
             | 
             | Sequence as many tracks as you want for as long as you
             | want.
             | 
             | Deluge has far fewer limitations than OP-1.
        
           | JoeyJoJoJr wrote:
           | Yep, Deluge is the one and only desert island groovebox IMO.
        
             | creativeembassy wrote:
             | I ended up getting a Dirtywave M8, but the Deluge was a
             | VERY close second. If I ever get tired of the M8, I still
             | have my eye on a Deluge.
        
             | aa-jv wrote:
             | The latest OS update added a new synthesis method
             | (wavetable) too, which is really fun and exciting for those
             | of us with a huge wavetable archive to harvest.
             | 
             | Definitely a killer workstation.
        
         | i_am_proteus wrote:
         | >Show me another way to write a song in an airplane, and you
         | can have my money.
         | 
         | Pencil and staff paper.
         | 
         | My email address is in my profile if you would genuinely like
         | to send me your money.
        
         | luluganeta wrote:
         | The Polyend tracker makes for a complete portable music-making
         | tool as well.
         | 
         | https://polyend.com/tracker/
         | 
         | I'm sure there's others, but it's true that the OP-1 offers an
         | impressive feature set for portable production.
        
         | bodge5000 wrote:
         | Depends on how you define "a whole song", but I'd say theres
         | plenty of other options. In fact I'd go so far as to say the
         | polyend tracker is even better than the op-1 for that purpose.
         | Even better than that, a standard laptop with a standard DAW.
         | Or even an ipad for that matter, which has a great selection of
         | its own software.
         | 
         | There are many things the OP-1 does that nothing else can do
         | quite the same, but I wouldnt say thats one of them.
        
         | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
         | > But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you
         | can bring on an airplane and write a whole song
         | 
         | I could take a pen and some paper and write a whole song. Or
         | take my laptop and write, record & mix a whole song. Or an
         | iPad. Or the MPC as others have said, the Synthstrom Deluge...
         | It's a fun toy, but not unique in that regard.
        
         | lynndotpy wrote:
         | Another example: Sunvox, runs on about everything. Extremely
         | versatile for something that originally targeted Windows CE and
         | Palm Pilot.
         | 
         | I don't make much music, but I've been having a blast tinkering
         | with it.
        
         | enneff wrote:
         | > But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you
         | can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.
         | 
         | Apart from the several other great options mentioned in other
         | replies, there's also the Dirtywave M8. It, and the other
         | tracker-style devices like the Polyend, actually make it much
         | easier to write proper songs than the OP-1's finnicky and
         | unforgiving tape-based recording interface. (I own all these
         | devices and have used them extensively.)
         | 
         | But if you are really serious about writing music on a plane
         | just use a laptop and a modern DAW.
        
         | Tomte wrote:
         | > But the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you
         | can bring on an airplane and write a whole song.
         | 
         | I have zero music talent or experience, so let me ask: Would
         | there be something missing with a quality soft synth on iPad
         | with GarageBand?
         | 
         | The hardware buttons, sure, but is it possible to write a
         | "serious" song with such a setup (iPad, paid synth app)?
        
           | comboy wrote:
           | Yes. There are channels recreating popular songs in
           | garageband on iphone (with no additional paid plugins).
           | 
           | Physical knobs and buttons feel good, OP-1 also forces you to
           | commit to specific audio and puts some limitations on yuu
           | which may help with creativity.
           | 
           | You can create something amazing using just your phone. But
           | to get skill to be able to do that, you likely need toys that
           | keep you inspired and make you want to play all day.
        
           | tom-thistime wrote:
           | The iPad will work alone, and if you're just starting out
           | it's fine. But it's best to add a tiny MIDI keyboard to the
           | iPad. For extreme compactness, the Korg Nanokey 2 works well
           | for me. It has nontraditional "button" keys, but so does the
           | OP-1.
           | 
           | The iPad's touch screen is usable, but its velocity
           | sensitivity isn't nearly as good as a hardware keyboard.
        
         | severak_cz wrote:
         | Cheaper way is to use Caustic 3 on old Android phone while
         | commuting by bus. Been there, done that! :-D
         | 
         | Of course - it's all in software solution but it's pretty
         | powerful actually. But it's more like a DAW or tracker style of
         | things.
        
         | motogpjimbo wrote:
         | There are many other options available - the groovebox market
         | is booming right now. Even if you don't consider traditional
         | grooveboxes like the Digitakt suitable for creating an actual
         | "song", options like the Polyend Tracker are available and the
         | modern MPC devices are basically a DAW-in-a-box now, complete
         | with software synths.
         | 
         | The OP-1 is cool as hell, but realistically it's a PS500
         | musical toy marked up to PS2,000 simply because hipsters
         | latched onto the design and marketing of it.
        
           | ugjka wrote:
           | Nah, it is not hipsters, they are just doing what Apple is
           | doing.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Not everyone who likes Teenage Engineering / OP-1 is a
             | hipster, that's true. But I think Teenage Engineering /
             | OP-1 is the only music making company/music equipment I
             | frequently see designer friends post on Instagram/Twitter
             | about even if those same friends never made music of their
             | own.
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | > Show me another way to write a song in an airplane, and you
         | can have my money.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E54uAhMBA1A
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q_d-rfzZPM
         | 
         | Note that the 1st video is from 2010.
        
         | karmakaze wrote:
         | I like others think I want an OP-1 even though I don't know
         | exactly what it does. Reminds me of a great ad for an
         | electronic measurement bench product with the headline "I want
         | it. What does it do?"
         | 
         | I have been looking at the Roland TR-6S or T-8 to go with a
         | portable DJ kit like the Reloop Ready.
        
         | idea55 wrote:
         | Proper first world drama here; not only must one be able to
         | make music on a plane, one must do it with a $2,000 toy!
         | 
         | Why, anything else just can't be done! It's uncivilized!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | >> the OP-1 is literally the only piece of music gear you can
         | bring on an airplane and write a whole song.
         | 
         | Apart from...
         | 
         | * Laptop with your favourite DAW
         | 
         | * iPad with GarageBand or Android Tablet with Caustic
         | 
         | * I would put Novation Circuit in similar category though
         | depends on your definition of whole song
         | 
         | * Synthstorm Deluge
         | 
         | * Digitakt Elektron?
         | 
         | * Some of the Roland grooveboxes and systems
         | 
         | * Some of the Akai APC/MPC or Native Instruments Machine? Not
         | fully familiar with either but I thought e.g. Akai Live lets
         | you do a full production
         | 
         | * Bunch of other stuff I'm sure I'm forgetting
         | 
         | I feel we are actually in a bonanza and cornucopia of portable
         | music creation devices! And that's a good thing :). Heck even
         | the Yamaha Reface is super portable, battery powered, real
         | keyboard, lots of sounds, and you can hook it up to phone or a
         | simple recorder/looper to make good stuff on the go. OP1 might
         | be the smallest by some metrics, that may or may not be seen as
         | a good thing.
        
           | hypertele-Xii wrote:
           | * Korg Electribe
        
           | buescher wrote:
           | Yamaha QY70. I remember reading something 20 years ago, maybe
           | more, about artists using it to compose while traveling.
           | Probably Bjork.
           | 
           | http://www.synthmania.com/qy70.htm
        
           | ciroduran wrote:
           | Let's add the Nintendo Switch. I can get the KORG Gadget for
           | 30PS and make some sweet tunes. Sure, to get the tunes out
           | into something I can export sound from I'd need to get the
           | KORG Gadget for iOS or Android, and from there to Ableton
           | Live. But I've tried out the KORG Gadget on Switch and it's
           | really fun to use.
        
             | nzoschke wrote:
             | Another vote for KORG Gadget. I've been more successful
             | making music with the iPad app than anything else.
             | 
             | The app is simple and constrained and makes it easy to
             | write down sketches.
        
           | biztos wrote:
           | * Volca if $SONG < 256
           | 
           | * Kastle while $SONG == $DRONE
           | 
           | * Model::Samples while $SONG in @SAMPLES &&
           | isNotOnFire($BATTERY)
           | 
           | * !$BUDGET && PO-33
        
         | lodovic wrote:
         | I'm having a hard time imagining boarding an airplane for a 6hr
         | flight, whipping out the TE and headphones and then spending
         | the entire flight composing a quality song. Really, who does
         | that? There is just too much noise from the plane and I'd feel
         | like seeking attention.
        
         | beepbooptheory wrote:
         | You just need a pencil and paper to write a song on an
         | airplane! Also, why would you want to do that? Can't think of a
         | less inspiring environment.
        
       | marban wrote:
       | Given that the feature list reads almost like new product and the
       | OG is already pretty complex, I'm most definitely happier with
       | mine now than before.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Yeah, "new product" indeed, especially considering these
         | "features" from that huge "feature" list:
         | 
         | - NEW COLOR SCHEME
         | 
         | - DUAL VELCRO(r) BACK FASTENERS
         | 
         | - ERGONOMIC POWER SWITCH
         | 
         | - ULTRA-FIDELITY HEADPHONE OUTPUT
         | 
         | - NEW CUSTOM USB CABLE
         | 
         | - NEW FONT
         | 
         | - NEW METRONOME SOUND
         | 
         | - NEW PACKAGING
         | 
         | - QR CODE GUIDE LINK
         | 
         | I'm not gonna lie, I'm generally a teenage engineering fan
         | (besides the price that is), but some of those features sounds
         | like part of a comedy/sarcastic copy of the actual launch
         | website.
        
           | marban wrote:
           | Yeah, new packaging might pull me over
        
           | Spunkie wrote:
           | They also relist the same feature multiple times in slightly
           | different ways ...
           | 
           | - INTERNAL FM ANTENNA FOR BOTH RX AND TX
           | 
           | - BUILT-IN FM RADIO TRANSMISSION
           | 
           | - OB-4 COMPATIBLE USING FM TX OR WIRE
        
       | Shadonototra wrote:
       | i have no idea what this is, but what a beautifully designed
       | thing, it makes me want to use it, just to feel it lol
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | leach wrote:
       | I've always wanted to buy the OP-1 because it's such a cool
       | little device. I'm not very talented when it comes to making
       | music though so the steep price tag has always kept me away.
       | Maybe one day i'll buy one
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | chaosprint wrote:
         | Perhaps you can try this to make music in the browser:
         | 
         | https://learningmusic.ableton.com
         | 
         | Or my work:
         | 
         | https://glicol.org
        
       | KingOfCoders wrote:
       | $2000 - Teenage engineering worked hard to become an identy
       | product and now can charge for it. If you sell identity, no price
       | is too high. Do I want one? Yes. Do I buy one? No the identity
       | tax is too high for me.
       | 
       | (though I like my Teenage Engineering PO-20, but a Novation
       | Circuit works for my dabbling with sequencing).
        
       | chaosprint wrote:
       | It looks nice and I may consider buying one for research purpose.
       | But I know the price tag can be quite high for many. Maybe that's
       | partially the reason that I believe free and open-source software
       | is a form or music democratisation. I would like to invite those
       | who are interested in this idea to try my live coding project in
       | the browser:
       | 
       | https://glicol.org
       | 
       | I have been taking this project to different workshops and there
       | will be more. The most unforgettable experience so far is that in
       | one place the host can only provide old laptops that can hardly
       | run Chrome smoothly. It really makes me think a lot afterwards.
       | There are so many people excluded from music making due to the
       | price tag.
       | 
       | On the one hand, it's exciting to see the exploration
       | aestheticism, design and interaction. But on the other hand, we
       | should really consider the democratisation of music tech.
        
         | closedloop129 wrote:
         | To make it more democratic, could you add a gui that records
         | interactions as glicol source code?
         | 
         | That way it would be possible to immediately start making music
         | without having to learn the language first.
        
           | chaosprint wrote:
           | I do want to make hardware one day.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Talking about making it easier to write music and then linking
         | to a programming language for making music feels a bit weird.
         | Yes, hardware is a barrier for sure, but a even larger barrier
         | would be to put it behind a complicated programming language.
         | 
         | If we really want to "democratize music tech" (whatever that
         | means), then I think things like the Korg Volcas are much
         | closer to achieving that. Cheaper than most computer hardware,
         | very intuitive even for people who never touched a synth
         | before, and hardware that is relatively easy to grok, even the
         | insides of it. Easy to take apart as well.
         | 
         | The only thing missing from the Volcas would be a completely
         | open source design both for the hardware and the firmware. That
         | would get us much closer than a programming language for music
         | could ever.
        
           | chaosprint wrote:
           | Good point! Programming language can be harder to learn. I
           | totally agree with it. With a hardware, you can easily make
           | some sound. But on the other hand, languages are free and we
           | can make the docs and videos so that the learning curve can
           | be less steep. I would be amazed if one without any previous
           | experience can master, say Mother-32, even with manuals and
           | tutorials.
           | 
           | Also, the way I design Glicol (graph-oritend live coding
           | language) is actually against normal programming paradigms
           | such as FP or OOP. I always let my students to hear and see
           | how an audio node works. I would call it as an instrument-
           | design perspective. This may also lower the learning bar.
           | 
           | And to compare programming languages with hardware tools, I
           | can also mention the logic loop. For example, you can easily
           | duplicate 100 oscillators in live coding but generally
           | impossible to achieve with hardware synth.
        
           | bambax wrote:
           | I disagree. I think there is room for both. I own two Volcas,
           | and don't use them much unfortunately.
           | 
           | The problem with hardware is it's extremely difficult, or
           | downright impossible, to save state.
           | 
           | On a physical modular synth, the only way to remember what
           | you did is to write it down or (maybe) take pictures. On a
           | virtual modular synth all you have to do is Save As.
           | 
           | I'm sure OP-1 can save its patches, but that doesn't address
           | the problem of the whole chain, or backups.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Eh, that's not at all true. Being able to recall state is
             | something that has been solved for a long time, but not all
             | synths have that functionality, I'll give you that.
             | 
             | As two examples of synths I own that can do this:
             | 
             | - Moog Sirin supports Program Change MIDI messages, so I
             | save the state of the current settings via MIDI on my
             | Octatrack, and can recall that same state whenever I want
             | without touching the hardware of the Sirin
             | 
             | - Novation Summit allows you to save patches with your own
             | name + putting it in a category. Recalling the same patch
             | is a matter of turning the knob until you arrive there.
             | 
             | Not sure how you arrived to the conclusion that saving
             | state is "extremely difficult, or downright impossible".
        
               | bambax wrote:
               | > _Not sure how you arrived to the conclusion that saving
               | state is "extremely difficult, or downright impossible"._
               | 
               | I was thinking about modular synths mostly, and patching
               | cables (also: Volca Modular).
               | 
               | Yes, individual synths can save/export settings, but if
               | you want to save a whole combination with different
               | machines it's a big headache; whereas in a DAW it's so
               | trivial you don't even think about it.
               | 
               | But ok, we are sliding into the "hardware vs software"
               | debate, which won't be solved here or there, or ever.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | > I was thinking about modular synths mostly, and
               | patching cables (also: Volca Modular).
               | 
               | Ah yeah, I don't use modular synths myself (and that
               | reason is one of them, patching cables manually seems
               | like a hassle).
               | 
               | > Yes, individual synths can save/export settings, but if
               | you want to save a whole combination with different
               | machines it's a big headache; whereas in a DAW it's so
               | trivial you don't even think about it.
               | 
               | As mentioned earlier, Program Change MIDI messages solve
               | this. I have about 10 hardware devices I use for music
               | making, and all of them responds to Program Change
               | messages. Everything is driven by the Octatrack, so
               | changing the project/pattern on the Octatrack makes every
               | device in my studio load the right patch instantly. Once
               | you've setup the audio/MIDI routing with your hardware,
               | it's actually pretty easy to use.
               | 
               | > But ok, we are sliding into the "hardware vs software"
               | debate, which won't be solved here or there, or ever.
               | 
               | Agree :) For some, hardware is better, for others
               | software is better. Truth is probably somewhere in-
               | between and/or both depending on context.
        
             | varispeed wrote:
             | Why do you need to save state? If you don't, it helps you
             | finish the project and move onto the next one. And if you
             | do it every day, then you could likely dial in any settings
             | from your own memory quicker that it would have taken to
             | menu dive and load from disk.
        
               | bambax wrote:
               | I need to save state because I don't finish projects in
               | one sitting, and I don't have enough room (or money) to
               | have different instances of the same machine lying around
               | forever.
               | 
               | MIDI controllers are great (and I even built a couple
               | myself) to let one interact physically with an
               | instrument. But I'm not sure I get the appeal of physical
               | synths.
               | 
               | To each their own though. I'm not trying to convince
               | anyone. I'm just saying the key to more music is not
               | necessarily more physical objects; more software is also
               | great.
        
         | bambax wrote:
         | > _https://glicol.org_
         | 
         | This looks absolutely fantastic! Thanks for sharing.
         | 
         | Live coding in a VST (like this project
         | https://www.osar.fr/protoplug/) would be the next thing?
         | 
         | > _remember to play with line 14_
         | 
         | On my screen, line numbers are almost invisible (.CodeMirror-
         | linenumber #e0e2e5).
        
           | chaosprint wrote:
           | Live coding in VST is already possible:
           | https://youtu.be/tmmBhBmIEW0
           | 
           | Glicol is also an audio library, so you can write VST plugin
           | with Glicol: https://github.com/chaosprint/dattorro-vst-rs
        
             | bambax wrote:
             | Wow. Absolutely amazing.
             | 
             | About writing VSTs, does it require JUCE, etc.?
        
               | chaosprint wrote:
               | No, it uses EGUI in Rust for the GUI, and Glicol synth as
               | the audio engine. The link of that repo is actually a
               | GitHub template so one can easily customise it to any
               | audio effect.
        
           | tmountain wrote:
           | You might like this too.
           | 
           | http://ernestmicklei.com/melrose/introduction_melrose/
           | 
           | Really cool project that lets you drive your DAW
           | programmatically.
        
       | riwsky wrote:
       | Bon Iver, 2015 interview:
       | 
       | > the thing I'm working with the most is the OP-1. It's a
       | sampler-based synthesizer, and I honestly think it's the most
       | important instrument that's come into my life since I first
       | picked up a guitar when I was 12 years old. I'm not exaggerating
       | at all. I never leave the house without it. I don't travel with
       | the guitar anymore. I travel with just my OP-1. It's been a big
       | deal living with this thing. I love making music with it. I love
       | traveling with it. I like using it as a writing extension. It's a
       | really special technology, essentially what a guitar is to me.
       | 
       | https://grantland.com/hollywood-prospectus/lost-in-the-world...
        
       | neoCrimeLabs wrote:
       | The newly announced Polyend Play and Teenage Engineering OP-1
       | Field are great examples of very different UX and very different
       | workflows to solve a similar problem - making music without a
       | computer, creatively, ideally with a flow state.
       | 
       | It's very interesting just looking at how they do it.
       | 
       | Dunno if I will get either one, or both. Either way, I do
       | appreciate the direction they are going in. :-)
        
       | 22c wrote:
       | Link should be https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1
        
       | anentropic wrote:
       | The design is beautiful, but it's not really clear from this page
       | what it is.
        
         | validuser wrote:
         | It's a groovebox - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groovebox
        
         | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
         | It's quite obvious to me that it's a keyboard instrument from
         | the first picture alone. The copy gives plenty of information
         | on the synthesis and sampling capabilities.
        
           | anentropic wrote:
           | Yeah I can see it has a keyboard, presumably some kind of
           | synthesiser.
           | 
           | It also appears to have some recording facility, but not
           | clear how to get audio into it - can't tell what ports it
           | has. Is the recording feature just for sequencing internal
           | sample and synth sounds?
           | 
           | Or... they highlight the new version now has a 2.4ghz antenna
           | - do you stream audio in/out over bluetooth?
           | 
           | A little explanation of basically what it can do or how they
           | imagine it being used would go a long way
        
             | filoleg wrote:
             | > not clear how to get audio into it
             | 
             | In terms of wired connectors, it has USB-C, line in and out
             | sockets, and a 4-pole audio jack for headset or mic
             | support. OP-1 also has its own mic built into the body as
             | well.
        
             | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
             | I think both of your questions are answered on the page.
             | Maybe not in the direct manner in which you have asked, but
             | my understanding is that recording is possible with the
             | mixer accessory mentioned towards the bottom, and the
             | antennas are for the Bluetooth MIDI feature heavily
             | emphasised towards the top.
             | 
             | Maybe they do need a FAQ with a basic Q&A format, though.
             | e.g.
             | 
             | Why does it have antennas?
             | 
             | How do I record?
             | 
             | What do the knobs do?
             | 
             | How many instruments are included?
             | 
             | How do I transfer recordings to my computer or phone?
             | 
             | etc.
        
       | krnlpnc wrote:
       | From 2011:
       | 
       | Finally. After more than two years of development the OP-1 is now
       | ready for production. Due to initial limited supply we now accept
       | reservations. Manufacturing, assembly and shipping will be eight
       | weeks.
       | 
       | $799
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20110201230202/http://namm.teena...
        
         | tibbon wrote:
         | As a studio enthusiast and electronic musician, I always felt
         | this was a reasonable price for the OP-1. I have a _lot_ of
         | synths here, ranging from the high end Moog Voyager to various
         | Pocket Operators by Teenage Engineering.
         | 
         | $2000 however is just too much for this. The Polyend Tracker
         | sells for $500 used in comparison, and while its drastically
         | different - is vaguely competitive to the OP-1.
        
           | tarentel wrote:
           | Polyend also just announced another groovebox that is vaguely
           | competitive to the op-1 for $800. Looks a bit like a slimmed
           | down deluge, which for half the price of the new OP-1, I
           | would highly recommend to anyone who wants a portable music
           | station or groovebox in general. I've had it for about 5
           | years now and they are still actively working on it which is
           | a nice bonus.
        
         | tweetle_beetle wrote:
         | Wasn't it originally manufactured in Europe to boot? Seem to
         | remember a major price rise coming when they had moved
         | production to Asia. There were many people selling their used
         | European models for more than they had paid because it was
         | still cheaper than the new RRP.
         | 
         | I guess TE took advantage of demand for an established product
         | and use it to subsidise their other lines and new development,
         | which I can't see them selling much volume on for the most part
         | (maybe Pocket Operators?).
        
       | baisq wrote:
       | Someone put "image-rendering: optimizespeed;" in the css and all
       | the images look blocky.
        
         | bowsamic wrote:
         | It's part of their aesthetic
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
           | baisq wrote:
           | That's not how any of this works.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | aosaigh wrote:
       | Who is this for? Is it for music professionals who can actually
       | record music (or ideas) on the go? Or is it for wealthy
       | enthusiasts who have cash to throw around at a fun piece of kit?
       | 
       | It's a beautiful piece of hardware from a design-first company
       | and from all the reviews of the original it seems to be an
       | excellent and unique music making machine, but at the price I'm
       | just not sure who it's aimed at.
       | 
       | I'm not a musician but I've played the piano for a lot of my
       | life. I'd love to experiment with making music and the original
       | OP-1 looked like a lot of fun. I'd kept my eye on it and was
       | thinking of pulling the trigger. At $1k+ though it was a total
       | stretch for a non-professional. The new OP-1 at $2k+ is just
       | ludicrous.
        
         | comboy wrote:
         | It's not ludicrous. It's rational decision on their part. OP-1
         | is still available, expensive and sells well.
         | 
         | If you want to experiment you have everything you want on your
         | laptop. There are many alternative cheaper solutions. It is
         | somewhat unique and well thought-out. The fact that you were
         | considering it at $1k just proves their point.
        
         | enneff wrote:
         | It's a great bit of fun that can produce interesting and
         | surprising sounds. For a lot of musicians a fun piece of gear
         | can be a source of inspiration, which can be very valuable. So
         | yeah, it's a toy, but you can make real music with toys.
        
       | zasdffaa wrote:
       | The cow. Why?
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | There are some nice improvements, but also:
       | 
       | > ERGONOMIC POWER SWITCH
       | 
       | > NEW METRONOME SOUND
       | 
       | > NEW PACKAGING
       | 
       | > INCREASED TOMBOLA SIMULATION ACCURACY
       | 
       | It's nice to have a company that doesn't take themselves too
       | seriously. How are people paying 2k for that though, I do not
       | know.
        
       | possibleworlds wrote:
       | Off topic, but does anyone have stereo OD11s? I'm seriously
       | interested in these as an alternative to spending too much money
       | on a two channel system that beams at a single sweet spot.
        
       | polyterative wrote:
       | great design
        
       | 0atman wrote:
       | I clicked through to the store thinking "Come on TE, what
       | pricepoint have you set this time", and it's $2,000. Two grand. I
       | chuckled, and closed the tab.
        
         | cushychicken wrote:
         | If any business on this site has taken to heart the advice to
         | charge more, it's Teenage Engineering.
         | 
         | Doesn't really seem to be hurting them, now, does it?
        
           | iamricks wrote:
           | If you can't be the cheapest be the most expensive
        
         | motogpjimbo wrote:
         | For the same money it would be possible to buy the full version
         | of a DAW of your choice, Kontakt, Arturia V-Collection and a PC
         | to run them all on. I'm sure the OP-1 is fun, but I doubt it's
         | PS2,000 worth of fun.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | And the debate of hardware vs software continues!
           | 
           | It's true that if you just compare the costs, it might be
           | cheaper to go the software route. But I mainly make music to
           | go away from the computer, as I spend a lot of my days
           | programming on one already. And the ability of pulling me
           | away from the computer you can't put a price on :)
           | 
           | Plus, fiddling with real knobs that affect the sound in real-
           | time, having a keyboard with a heavy feel, being able to turn
           | on the hardware and instantly be able to use it (no fucking
           | around with forced updates) and the ability to mod your own
           | hardware with just a solder-iron is just like really really
           | fun.
        
             | motogpjimbo wrote:
             | In hardware terms, it's the same price as a Yamaha Montage.
             | The OP-1 isn't good value for money no matter how you look
             | at it.
        
               | goldenkey wrote:
               | Utility decreases as one acquires more money. For someone
               | with a lot of money the OP-1 might be worth it.
               | 
               | But yes, on an objective scale, the OP-1 is not
               | competitive.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | Sorry, didn't want to give the impression that the OP-1
               | (original or this one) is good money spent, because that
               | I don't think. The price of this (+ the rest of their
               | products) are wildly over-priced. I was more talking
               | about the whole software VS hardware side of things.
               | 
               | If I had $2000 to throw around, I'd buy a Syntakt +
               | Digitone/Digitakt instead and get a setup that could do
               | whatever I want + more.
        
               | motogpjimbo wrote:
               | No, I was just pointing out that its functionality
               | doesn't really justify the price tag when you compare it
               | with what's also available elsewhere. PS2,000 would also
               | buy you a Korg Minilogue XD, a Korg Opsix, a Korg
               | Wavestate AND some form of groovebox or hardware
               | sequencer to tie them all together, if you like small
               | form factor gear.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | > No, I was just pointing out that its functionality
               | doesn't really justify the price tag when you compare it
               | with what's also available elsewhere
               | 
               | Yeah, I agree with that, which I thought my previous
               | comment made clear, maybe I wasn't clear enough.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | skinpop wrote:
           | I hate working with DAWS and plugins. I went all in on
           | modular a few years ago and wish I had done so a decade
           | earlier.
        
         | monatron wrote:
         | I remember buying the first OP-1 when it came out for something
         | around $700 and even then thought "wow, this is a stretch".
         | Since then they _raised_ the price of the original north of
         | $1k. Don't get me wrong, TE makes incredible stuff and the OP-1
         | is no exception, but the price point just doesn't make sense
         | unless you have serious money to burn. I had the same reaction
         | to you after seeing the price for the mk2. At least, like a lot
         | of synths, they hold their value?
        
           | agloeregrets wrote:
           | > but the price point just doesn't make sense unless you have
           | serious money to burn.
           | 
           | Meanwhile, the OP-1 was used on like 40% of all modern pop
           | music production process.
           | 
           | I think the market is massively successful artists and they
           | know they will pay.
        
             | wyre wrote:
             | Absolutely not. Ableton Live is used much more and I would
             | be suprised if their market share was 40%.
        
             | sramsay wrote:
             | Absolutely no way.
        
             | JoeyJoJoJr wrote:
             | 40%? That seems like a lot. Where did that number come
             | from?
        
             | objclxt wrote:
             | > Meanwhile, the OP-1 was used on like 40% of all modern
             | pop music production process.
             | 
             | I'd love to see a citation for that. Lots of artists use it
             | for demos, and it's a good live tool, but if you look at
             | modern pop it's being produced with soft synths or
             | Sequentials, Rolands, Korgs, etc.
        
             | fbanon wrote:
             | LOL! Blatantly false.
        
             | throw_m239339 wrote:
             | > Meanwhile, the OP-1 was used on like 40% of all modern
             | pop music production process.
             | 
             | Citation needed, given how poorly its synthesizer engine
             | sounds, I do not believe that the case one second. It's
             | certainly hip among hobbyists though because praised by a
             | bunch of youtube influencers...
             | 
             | To me your comment sounds like something you just made up
             | entirely.
        
             | radiKal07 wrote:
             | source?
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > At least, like a lot of synths, they hold their value?
           | 
           | Like most synths, it seems so. Obviously not adjusted for the
           | launch of the new "field" OP-1 yet, but locally (EU country)
           | the OP-1 seems to go for about 700-1000 EUR second-hand. New
           | one in stores here seems to still be 1100+ EUR (closest store
           | to me lists it at ~1200 EUR new).
        
         | xcambar wrote:
         | TE does greatly, as a cult.
         | 
         | Also, good products.
        
           | bodge5000 wrote:
           | > Also, good products
           | 
           | Kind of. In my experience, design gets priority over things
           | like usability and durability. My OP-Z is barely usable after
           | a few years of owning it due to the (admittedly nice)
           | material the chasis is made of. The buttons frequently double
           | trig, the dials have popped out, and it's got a bit of a bend
           | in it.
           | 
           | I also get some mis-trig issues on the pocket operators,
           | though for the price I don't mind them as much. The original
           | OP-1 didnt seem to have these issues at least.
           | 
           | That being said, I've never been able to fully replace my
           | OP-Z with anything else on offer so yeh, they're innovative
           | if nothing else.
        
       | import wrote:
       | I have mixed feelings about OP1. It's like a cave man jam toy but
       | also something capable of creating accidental awesomeness. 2000$
       | is questionable. I wonder what we will see in the sponsored
       | YouTube videos.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | Product development of such calibre is expensive, especially
         | given the volatility of the supply chains today. $2000 given
         | what you get is a bargain. Mind you, it's not a product being
         | manufactured at scale like mobile phones. The cost of
         | development of the enclosure alone must have taken several
         | mortgages ;-)
        
       | mit20220401 wrote:
       | have read some comments here:
       | 
       | > "They have the best designers, i feel like in the US we have no
       | taste, i knew this couldn't be an American company." -- @iamricks
       | 
       | how about monome (https://monome.org/norns)?
       | 
       | @chaosprint
       | 
       | glicol is cool. another two interesting live coding languages are
       | tidal (https://tidalcycles.org) and orca
       | (https://100r.co/site/orca.html)
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | HN is usually fine when it comes to the technical details about
       | music making and new instruments. But if you want to read
       | opinions from people who make music but not all of them are
       | technical, here are some other threads to follow:
       | 
       | - https://www.elektronauts.com/t/new-op1-field/172653
       | 
       | - https://op-forums.com/t/new-op-1-field/21969
       | 
       | - https://old.reddit.com/r/OP1users/comments/unwdo9/op1_just_g...
       | 
       | Surprisingly, no thread at gearspace yet
        
       | gitowiec wrote:
       | Too expensive. But I'm glad there are people that can utilise it
       | well! Eg. RedMeansRecording channel on YouTube!
        
       | verilux68 wrote:
       | How many of the people in this thread saying:
       | 
       | The OP-1 is only for rich techies. Musicians don't use it.
       | 
       | Are folks who enjoy making music & who have tried the OP-1?
        
       | voigt wrote:
       | I hope for 2k bugs it has at least an ,,undo"-button.
       | 
       | The classic op1 doesn't have one. Would increase my productivity
       | dramatically.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Unlikely. People hailed the lack of undo (and the tape-
         | recorder) as a feature because it makes you either commit to
         | your mistakes, or having to re-record. Not for me, but that's
         | what I've heard people say about it.
         | 
         | And also, "undo" is mentioned nowhere, and since they add "new
         | packaging" to their list of features, I think undo would be
         | mentioned there if it had it. I've heard an equal amount of
         | people praising the lack of undo, as berating the OP-1 for
         | lacking one, so they surely would have added it if they wanted
         | to.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | elliotlarson wrote:
       | Even for a Teenage Engineering product, I have sticker shock over
       | this and their field mixer. They're nice products, but the
       | premium is so high. I mean, I kind of get it. Their original OP-1
       | remains the top selling synth after 10 years. And the product is
       | much loved and used (at least on Youtube). But, for the price of
       | an OP-1 Field you can get a couple of Elektron digi-boxes, with a
       | bit of money left over. This is certainly more portable... but
       | wow $2,000 is a bit steep. I mean, I still want it, of course.
        
       | xdfgh1112 wrote:
       | I was just about to sell my OP-1 too, there goes the resale
       | price.
        
         | bodge5000 wrote:
         | And here comes my chance at finally getting an OP-1 ;)
        
         | post_break wrote:
         | Let me know what you're selling it for, I've always wanted one
         | but never been able to afford it.
        
         | marban wrote:
         | I bought mine 3 months ago at sticker price. I hear you.
        
       | cestith wrote:
       | This is yet another Teenage Engineering bauble that as an
       | interested amateur I love to look at and at 1/4 to 1/3 the price
       | might consider buying. I'm glad their target market can justify
       | their prices because their stuff is really nice. I'm just not
       | part of it.
        
       | fbanon wrote:
       | I know a number of electronic musicians, and none of them has an
       | OP-1, or anything from TE. The only person I know with an OP-1 is
       | a designer at a startup I worked for, and he "didn't get around
       | using it much _yet_ ".
       | 
       | So yeah, the $2000 price point will work great for them, given
       | their customer demographics :)
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Heck I doubt anyone in the music production industry even knows
         | what Teenage Engineering is. They make toys for rich techies,
         | but that's it.
        
           | Slow_Hand wrote:
           | Record producer here. We certainly do. It's a well-known
           | product that's not uncommon to see being used by people.
           | 
           | I'd never decide to use one for my needs, but it is common
           | enough to find among many music makers.
        
         | alin23 wrote:
         | Well there's this guy on YouTube who demos all kinds of synths
         | and got a huge following from his OP-1 videos:
         | https://youtu.be/7z4hoazra_g
         | 
         | The video shows me that OP-1 is a pretty cool all-in-one
         | package, but it probably needs honing a special skill to work
         | with it as smoothly as that guy does.
        
           | mrkwse wrote:
           | Even with RMR though, he's pretty much moved away from the
           | OP-1 videos, I can't recall the video where he explained why
           | 100%, but I think he found it a bit creatively constraining.
        
           | dbeley wrote:
           | Yeah what he doesn't show is the difficulty of learning all
           | the quirks and features of the OP-1.
           | 
           | Professional musicians or even hobbyists prefer to buy
           | several specialized devices that do one thing very well
           | instead of having a very expensive device that can do a
           | little bit of everything but with some limitations.
        
         | j5r5myk wrote:
         | I know a few professional musicians who have them and you can
         | look up a host of famous musicians who are known to use them:
         | Diplo, Bon Iver, Deadmau5, Yasutaka Nakata, even Ariana Grande
         | has one. It seems to occupy a similar space to the Elektron
         | products --- high end with a steep learning curve
        
       | dreamcompiler wrote:
       | This is an absolutely magical device that nevertheless makes me
       | sad.
       | 
       | When I was a kid I thought I'd be riding around in flying cars by
       | now. The problem ended up surprising me: It's not that flying
       | cars don't exist--they do. The problem is they cost a million
       | dollars because every one is built by hand. So there's no way
       | I'll ever own one.
       | 
       | I'd also like to have a portable synth with great sound, long
       | battery life, a multitude of handy features, and excellent
       | design. But it's the same surprising problem as the flying cars:
       | The technology to build it exists but it costs 10x what I'd be
       | comfortable paying.
       | 
       | I'd be okay paying 2x for the great design, but 10x just makes
       | the thing a piece of wealth-signifying jewelry. Even if somebody
       | gave me one, I'd never want anybody to know I had it.
        
       | randomcarbloke wrote:
       | I do want it but man is it expensive, $1999...
        
       | thallavajhula wrote:
       | I have no idea what this device even is, but it looks beautiful
       | and I want to try it out.
        
       | planb wrote:
       | I have absolutely no use for the products made by teenage
       | engineering, as I don't have a clue about audio production. But
       | scolling thought their store, I still want to own these beatiful
       | devices.
        
         | iamricks wrote:
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Weird thing to say considering all of their designs are
           | clearly influenced by an American company (Apple).
        
             | blairbeckwith wrote:
             | As a non-designer, I don't have the skills or the
             | vocabulary to say whether this is true or not, but at first
             | glance Apple and Teenage Engineering seem to share little
             | in common. Can anyone who knows better enlighten me?
        
               | IE6 wrote:
               | Whenever TE is mentioned here I always struggle with the
               | parallel to apple. As a non-designer too Apple always
               | embodies form over function minimalism and these TE
               | products seem to be almost entirely function over form.
        
             | rasz wrote:
             | Last time I checked Dieter Rams never worked for Apple, so
             | Braun it is.
        
           | crispyambulance wrote:
           | Great design and designers exist everywhere. There's nothing
           | extrinsic to the companies in the US, Europe or Asia that
           | makes any of them better at design. It's all about the
           | internals of the companies themselves.
           | 
           | I would say, however, that Teenage Engineering is "small"
           | enough to take the kinds of risks that bigger companies just
           | aren't able to do (even with much more money). Here's a fast
           | company article (https://www.fastcompany.com/3016739/more-
           | than-an-office-teen...) from 2015. They claim wide variety of
           | backgrounds and keep their facilities modest. At the time
           | they released the first incarnation of the OP-1, they had 30
           | employees.
           | 
           | Contrast that with KORG, who a few years ago created a "lab"
           | in Berlin staffed with superstars with intention of creating
           | ground-breaking music tech (https://youtu.be/Y0NY6iUqbEM).
           | They clearly poured A LOT of money into that venture. Similar
           | kind of hipster vibe, but what became of it? I don't know but
           | it seems like Teenage Engineering is doing just fine.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | > Contrast that with KORG, who a few years ago created a
             | "lab" in Berlin staffed with superstars with intention of
             | creating ground-breaking music tech
             | (https://youtu.be/Y0NY6iUqbEM). They clearly poured A LOT
             | of money into that venture. Similar kind of hipster vibe,
             | but what became of it? I don't know but it seems like
             | Teenage Engineering is doing just fine.
             | 
             | That seems to have been kicked off just short of two years
             | ago. Building hardware, especially this kind of hardware,
             | takes a long long time to even reach the prototype stage,
             | even longer to get it out of production. I'm sure the OP-1
             | Field we saw launched today has been in development since
             | (or even before) the first OP-1 was launched, 10 years ago.
        
               | janekm wrote:
               | Not to mention that the last 2 years haven't been the
               | easiest for electronics product development ;(
        
           | s1mon wrote:
           | TE also does general industrial design work for external
           | clients. Their mechanical engineering capabilities seemed
           | less fully developed.
           | 
           | I like their ID work, but at some level it seems more like
           | well-proportioned, carefully considered graphic design -
           | rectilinear forms with radii and cylindrical knobs. I can't
           | count the number of ID projects I've worked on where an OP-1
           | was used as inspiration.
           | 
           | [source: A company I worked for worked on a project which
           | started with TE doing ID and ME. We took their prototype
           | level ME further, but not sure where the project ended up.]
        
           | invalidusernam3 wrote:
           | What about Apple? I think most Apple products are incredibly
           | beautiful
        
             | MetaWhirledPeas wrote:
             | Agreed. The OP-1 always reminded me of the IIgs keyboard.
             | 
             | https://i0.wp.com/jdanatrent.com/wp-
             | content/uploads/AppleIIG...
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Funny how the "beautiful" of yesteryear looks like Yet
               | Another Beige Box today.
        
               | jhbadger wrote:
               | I don't think the Apple "Snow White design language"
               | products like the IIgs look like generic beige boxes
               | (those were the uninspired IBM products which cared
               | little about looks that were beige), but it is
               | interesting how white has fallen out of favor as a
               | computer color to be replaced by unpainted aluminum or
               | black. The black craze was probably inspired by the NeXT
               | cube which was the epitome of cool in the late 80s-early
               | 90s.
        
               | throw_m239339 wrote:
               | Teenage engineering synth designs are blatantly copied
               | from old Casio synths and calculators:
               | 
               | TE:
               | 
               | https://images.musicstore.de/images/1280/teenage-
               | engineering...
               | 
               | casio:
               | 
               | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJKofVLVYAAdKoq.jpg
               | 
               | TE:
               | 
               | https://img.kytary.com/eshop_fr/velky_v2/na/6369949662008
               | 700...
               | 
               | casio
               | 
               | https://cf.shopee.com.my/file/59a4ec33a7568b15f89ecd821e0
               | bd8...
               | 
               | But there something Ive-ish with the design as well,
               | certainly.
        
               | catlifeonmars wrote:
               | "Blatant copy" seems like a stretch to me. They
               | definitely seem like they could have been inspired by the
               | Casio designs you linked.
        
               | devin wrote:
               | I don't see it, tbh.
        
               | tomashubelbauer wrote:
               | For something to be a blatant copy I'd expect when shown
               | both samples of work, one could imagine how multiple
               | people would have come up with the same end result based
               | on the same inspiration, no innovation or invention of
               | their own put into the process. When I look at the Casio
               | products, sure, the general inspiration definitely could
               | have come from those, but it's hard to see how one could
               | honestly claim TE have not invested any innovation or
               | invention of their own when coming up with their products
               | even if inspired by Casio. "Blatant copy" is an
               | incredible stretch.
        
               | throw_m239339 wrote:
               | > For something to be a blatant copy I'd expect when
               | shown both samples of work, one could imagine how
               | multiple people would have come up with the same end
               | result based on the same inspiration, no innovation or
               | invention of their own put into the process. When I look
               | at the Casio products, sure, the general inspiration
               | definitely could have come from those, but it's hard to
               | see how one could honestly claim TE have not invested any
               | innovation or invention of their own when coming up with
               | their products even if inspired by Casio. "Blatant copy"
               | is an incredible stretch.
               | 
               | Some of these devices are popular and more than 30 year
               | old. And these are not Teenage Engineering's...
               | 
               | Of course TE copied Casiotone series and of course TE
               | designers knows very well they exist.
               | 
               | Old Casiotone synth designs are absolutely unique in the
               | history of synth industry.
        
           | Puts wrote:
           | I mean there is no secret that Teenage Engineering is very
           | inspired by the European early and mid 1900s design movement.
           | I remember hearing an interview with Jesper Kouthoofd the
           | lead Designer about how they approach product design in the
           | same way as graphic design, just with more surfaces then a
           | paper. Everything is based on a grid (Josef Muller-Brockmann
           | and the International design movement), with focus on simple
           | shapes and a few primary colors (Bauhaus). And just comparing
           | the OB-4 speaker with the Braun T520 radio I think it's safe
           | to say that Dieter Rams has also been a great inspiration.
           | 
           | So for sure there is a lot of European design heritage going
           | in to these products. But personally I think the main reason
           | we don't see this kind of design coming from the US right now
           | simply comes down to the fact that minimalism as a concept
           | goes against typical North-American culture.
        
             | filoleg wrote:
             | > _Bosch T520_
             | 
             | Just a tiny nitpick, did you mean Braun T520 by any
             | chance?[0]
             | 
             | 0. https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/braun_kofferempfaenger_t52
             | 0.ht...
        
               | Puts wrote:
               | Sorry, you're right of course! :)
        
         | danielvaughn wrote:
         | same! I'm vaguely interested in the idea of programmatically
         | creating music, but I don't think that's the TE products are
         | for, but still...I want one.
        
         | throw_m239339 wrote:
        
           | httpsterio wrote:
           | I beg to differ. I mean sure, the OP-1 isn't as versatile as
           | a laptop with a good daw and a few plugins but hardware still
           | has its' place in some producers' gear bag. For a standalone
           | device it's extremely versatile and it does sound good.
        
             | throw_m239339 wrote:
             | > I beg to differ. I mean sure, the OP-1 isn't as versatile
             | as a laptop with a good daw and a few plugins but hardware
             | still has its' place in some producers' gear bag. For a
             | standalone device it's extremely versatile and it does
             | sound good.
             | 
             | First, we're not talking about hardware in general but that
             | TE device precisely and second "it sounds good" is really a
             | matter of taste here, the synth engine is very limited and
             | the first version didn't sound really good given its price.
             | This is absolutely a hipster device, just like all TE
             | products.
             | 
             | https://teenage.engineering/products/ob-4 650EUR for a
             | freaking radio?
             | 
             | Don't make it about hardware vs software, this red herring
             | has nothing to do with my comment.
        
               | sdenton4 wrote:
               | I've seen the op-1 I'm the stage kits of a bunch of my
               | favorite artists. Nine inch nails, Zola Jesus, Dan Deacon
               | come to mind...
        
               | verilux68 wrote:
               | What was your experience when you tried out the OP-1?
        
         | xd1936 wrote:
         | Same. I have two of their Pocket Operators[1] which I love, and
         | an OB-4 radio[2], but I'm mostly an enthusiast of their work
         | from afar. If you're casually interested in messing around with
         | music, the POs are a lot of fun and relatively inexpensive!
         | 
         | 1. https://teenage.engineering/products/po
         | 
         | 2. https://teenage.engineering/products/ob-4
        
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