[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Jobs After a Math PhD?
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       Ask HN: Jobs After a Math PhD?
        
       I'm failing to find a job after a PhD in mathematics in Europe. One
       of the big problems is that most people in my situation seem to get
       jobs in trading and/or blockchain, both of which I'm uncomfortable
       with.  I'd be thankful for any idea thrown my way (be it actual
       companies, domains or just vague career plans).  Cheers
        
       Author : rosetremiere
       Score  : 22 points
       Date   : 2022-05-11 18:35 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
       | yuppie_scum wrote:
       | Economics doesn't have to mean trading/crypto
        
       | conformist wrote:
       | (from an applied maths PhD perspective)
       | 
       | I'd argue that you can distinguish between career paths that
       | 
       | - make use of and are related to your broader specialisation
       | within maths (e.g. fluid dynamics, actuarial sciences,
       | cryptography, derivative pricing, specialised ML research...).
       | For these, it's hard to give recommendations without addition
       | details. They can still be open to folks from unrelated maths
       | backgrounds, but it depends on other experience and
       | circumstances.
       | 
       | - are highly quantitative and tend to value PhDs from
       | quantitative disciplines (e.g. "Data Science" & data consulting
       | companies, banks, (Re)insurance companies with internal training,
       | quant trading, applied ML research and startups, possibly sports
       | betting...). For these, PhDs in physics and EEE will probably be
       | similarly appropriate.
       | 
       | - value smart people with academic titles regardless of
       | discipline and might require separate skills and qualifications
       | (e.g. strategy consulting, IT consulting, patent attorney,
       | software development ...? ).
       | 
       | I would start by assessing where your interests and
       | qualifications sit within that range. It can help to start by
       | focusing on a specific industry that you find interesting and
       | then find out what kind of maths-adjacent roles there are. In my
       | experience, this tends to be very different for purer vs more
       | applied maths PhDs.
        
       | slavik81 wrote:
       | AMD is hiring developers for the ROCm math and communication
       | libraries [1]. If you're interested in developing open source
       | mathematics code for GPUs, there are a number of open positions.
       | Send me a message to discuss opportunities in more detail. My
       | email is in my profile.
       | 
       | [1]:
       | https://rocmdocs.amd.com/en/latest/ROCm_Libraries/ROCm_Libra...
        
       | zeruch wrote:
       | Not all "blockchain" is the same (case in point, there are firms
       | that do Anti-Money Laundering/Fraud and Counter Terrorism Funding
       | activities which use lots of big data/ML stuff).
       | 
       | Disclosure: I work for one of those firms (CipherTrace) so I may
       | have some bias, but really, this is the portion of the
       | Fintech/Crypto spectrum I find acceptable.
        
         | xtracto wrote:
         | Say hi to F. Steegmans (from the Mexican engineer guy who
         | opened an office at his last gig). He is such a nice guy!
         | 
         | BTW I love what you guys are doing over there.
        
           | zeruch wrote:
           | I worked with Steegmans at SugarCRM (he was the guy who
           | brought me into CipherTrace)...small world indeed.
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | You can find some pretty good responses on reddit.com/r/math.
       | This gets asked quite often there.
       | 
       | The short story is: software development. Sure, there are more
       | quantitative jobs like data science and ML and other mysterious
       | math/scientist jobs that are quite hard to find and secure, but
       | software development of any kind is the quickest way to a job.
       | You'll need to convince people you're not a pie in the sky
       | thinker, and so I'd recommend building up some side projects.
       | Functional programming languages will probably suit you better,
       | and those jobs can sometimes be more technical. Also,
       | universities and research institutions, at least in the U.S., are
       | hiring more and more software developers.
       | 
       | Regarding trading and blockchain, having some principles is fine,
       | but you also need to eat. There's nothing wrong with taking a job
       | for a couple of years to get your feet into industry and then
       | moving on from there.
        
         | BadCookie wrote:
         | You're right about software being a good option, but I will
         | caution that it can feel like too much of a change for someone
         | coming from math because the job interviews sometimes assume
         | that you know the CS undergraduate curriculum. The other side
         | of the coin is that being good at advanced math isn't an
         | advantage in something like web development, except insofar as
         | it has trained you to be hypersensitive to potential errors
         | (bugs) in the code.
         | 
         | As someone who made the move to software from math many years
         | ago, it feels like it was a good short-term decision, but I
         | don't know if I can make a life-long career of it. Sometimes I
         | wish I'd chosen something that played to my strengths more.
        
       | readingnews wrote:
       | I have a good friend, in the US, with a Ph.D. in math. It seems
       | like there is no job he can _not_ do.
       | 
       | Consulting for oil/gas/drilling as they always need analysis.
       | 
       | Financials.
       | 
       | Data analytics (of any kind).
       | 
       | Physics labs/research labs.
       | 
       | Manufacturing (optimization problems, efficiency problems, actual
       | problems <snicker>)
       | 
       | Have you thought completely outside the enclosure?
       | 
       | Sitcoms (look at the people on Futurama or Big Bang for example)
       | 
       | Porn (how _would_ you figure out the volume of that thing??)
       | 
       | Entertainment (Bill Nye the science guy, rosetremiere the math is
       | near!)
        
       | j8asic wrote:
       | If you come from applied math, then numerics! For structural
       | analysis, fluid dynamics, robotics, machine learning, etc. If you
       | asked this question week ago, I'd probably hire you.
        
       | jrussino wrote:
       | Maybe there's something interesting here:
       | https://www.esa.int/About_Us/Careers_at_ESA/Professionals ?
        
       | mjfl wrote:
       | post doc?
        
       | jethkl wrote:
       | PhD in math, US perspective, 20ish years working.
       | 
       | Members from my class (including +/- a couple of years) went to
       | startups, think tanks, SEC, NSA, trading, hedge funds, digital
       | media, academia, postdocs, consulting, and commercial research
       | labs that are incubators within larger corporations.
       | 
       | You didn't indicate your specialty, but it probably does not
       | matter. Many current DS and related jobs list PhD in a STEM field
       | as baseline or preferred requirement. I know logicians who got
       | non-academic work (this is not a dig at logic, they were really
       | worried about this).
       | 
       | If you want to go the software developer route, at this point you
       | do know how to study for leetcode type puzzles. But you are in
       | direct competition with many others who specialize in that, and a
       | PhD in math will not carry much extra weight in the hiring
       | decision.
       | 
       | Watching my own and my peers careers evolve over time, the impact
       | of one's network should not be underestimated.
       | 
       | Finally, assume you will never be asked about your dissertation.
       | Ever.
        
       | ktpsns wrote:
       | I had a similar situation with Physics PhD a few years ago. Now
       | things have turned, I'm doing my startup and we urgently look for
       | people like you.
       | 
       | Since I don't want to tamper my anonymity here, let me tell you a
       | few tips:
       | 
       | First, find out for yourself whether you want to work in
       | enterprises or startups. Whether you want to apply scientific
       | methods/conduct private research or not.
       | 
       | I had a clear idea for myself: startup+research. Once you know
       | this, you can basically let yourself "go with the flow": Look up
       | interesting people and topics (at TED(x) conferences, at youtube,
       | at fairs or conferences) and ask if you can work with them. Works
       | best if they are CTO/CSO at their startup (such as I am) :-)
        
       | effnorwood wrote:
        
       | jstx1 wrote:
       | Data science and/or ML? A mathematics PhD is a big advantage when
       | applying for those positions.
        
         | thenipper wrote:
         | Also there is optimization/operations research if you want
         | something a bit different. Less buzzwordy too.
        
         | BadCookie wrote:
         | In the US, there are "boot camps" that specialize in getting
         | people with PhDs jobs in data science. I don't know if that's a
         | thing in Europe too, but probably.
        
           | jstx1 wrote:
           | For a math PhD a bootcamp only makes sense if it's basically
           | intensive interview prep and you feel like you really need
           | it. In any other case a bootcamp seems very unnecessary and
           | it can even be a red flag depending on the bootcamp.
        
             | BadCookie wrote:
             | Maybe. I don't think most people with math/physics PhDs
             | have done much with machine learning or the specific tech
             | that companies are looking for, so that's why so many of
             | these bootcamps popped up. The people in my social circle
             | who did bootcamps to transition to jobs from PhDs seemed
             | happy enough with them, but that doesn't make all bootcamps
             | equal. My info is also 5+ years old, so circumstances may
             | have changed. I do believe you that there are a lot of
             | crappy bootcamps now.
        
           | daanlo wrote:
           | Check out: https://datascienceretreat.com/
        
       | sillyinseattle wrote:
       | Commenters are clearly trying to help. They can do better if you
       | provide more context. What kind of math do you want to do? This
       | does not have to be related to your dissertation area. And since
       | you are asking on HN .. what kind of hacking/ development do you
       | want to do? Coming from academia (I have a phd in game theory --
       | kind of useless in real world, other than ad auctions), it gets
       | easier to find an industry job and develop idea of a good fit
       | once you already have one! Don't be too picky to start with. Good
       | luck!
        
       | jerglingu wrote:
        
       | mrjay42 wrote:
       | Any kind of computational science? We need applied maths people
       | to explain the maths to us <3 ^^
       | 
       | Any kind of data science/machine learning?
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-11 23:02 UTC)