[HN Gopher] AltTab - Windows alt-tab on macOS
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       AltTab - Windows alt-tab on macOS
        
       Author : DerekBickerton
       Score  : 90 points
       Date   : 2022-05-10 18:07 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (alt-tab-macos.netlify.app)
 (TXT) w3m dump (alt-tab-macos.netlify.app)
        
       | stu_k wrote:
       | Looks great! I've currently use https://contexts.co/ but might
       | switch over for the thumbnails
        
       | vosper wrote:
       | I recently found an old app called Snap which automatically
       | assigns apps to Cmd + number depending on their order in the dock
       | (or you can manually assign them).
       | 
       | I have Chrome as the first app in the dock, so it's Cmd+1. Slack
       | is second and is Cmd+2.
       | 
       | It's so simple. I love it. I tried to achieve the same with
       | Automator but it was unreliable.
       | 
       | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/snap/id418073146?mt=12
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | Wow, this was last updated in 2012. That's pretty incredible if
         | it still works - the dev won the "no breaking changes in a
         | decade" jackpot in API pachinko.
        
       | chadlavi wrote:
       | > Built-in [?] command + - tab: Only shows apps, not windows
       | (note: can press down to see window of selected app)
       | 
       | I've never actually needed to use it, but that sounds like the
       | default can do this without taking your hands off the keyboard?
        
         | randomluck040 wrote:
         | That's right but it's not possible without taking your hand
         | from the mouse since you need to put your fingers on the arrow
         | keys. I know that everyone is rather keyboard-centric on HN but
         | some tasks require mouse usage. Also it's a simple left hand
         | task on windows, I'd need both hands to reach the same result.
        
       | nomel wrote:
       | I use HyperSwitch, by the creator of HyperDock, for this purpose.
       | I switched to Mac for my job.
        
         | SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
         | I used to use HyperSwitch, but it has bugs and doesn't work on
         | all applications for some reason. It also doesn't work on M1
         | macs if I'm recalling correctly.
         | 
         | Made the switch to alt-tab, and glad I did.
        
       | therealmarv wrote:
       | Seems many people don't know:
       | 
       | [?] Command + ` to switch between windows of same program
        
         | balfirevic wrote:
         | That's not comparable to what this utility does (and it also
         | supports Cmd + ` and does it better than built in MacOS
         | behaviour).
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | I already posted this in response to another comment but you
         | might be interested to now that I ported that functionality to
         | Windows: https://neosmart.net/blog/2017/easy-window-switcher/
        
       | billyhoffman wrote:
       | I switched to the Mac about 10 years ago. The biggest pain point
       | I haven't really been able to solve (before this app) is
       | switching between 2 specific windows in 2 different applications.
       | On Windows this was as easy as ALT+tab
       | 
       | Perfect example, I'm looking in Safari, and entering some numbers
       | in Excel. I have multiple windows open for each app. I'm in
       | Excel, and CMD+tab to switch to Safari, and all the Safari
       | windows come forward, coving up my Excel window. CMD +` only
       | cycles the windows of the current app. There is no easy way to
       | bounce back and forth between a specific Excel window and a
       | specific Safari window. Instead I have to Hide or rearrange my
       | windows so that switch apps doesn't complete cover the windows I
       | want to see
        
       | pazimzadeh wrote:
       | This is nice. However, once Alt-Tab is activated, it would be
       | nice to be able to hold Alt and use the ` key to cycle through
       | windows from right to left, instead of left to right (same
       | behavior as Command-Tab on MacOS).
        
         | Starmina wrote:
         | Press shift !:)
        
       | alin23 wrote:
       | I use this in combination with my rcmd app
       | (https://lowtechguys.com/rcmd) and I can finally say I've reached
       | the perfect app/window switching setup on macOS.
       | 
       | Instant app switching with rcmd + visual window switching for
       | multi-window apps like Xcode, Sublime Text etc.
       | 
       | It's similar to what I had on Windows with WinKey+number and
       | their integrated AltTab thumbnails but better since I don't have
       | to count the apps in the taskbar to know which number to press,
       | and I can AltTab only through the current app windows if I want.
        
         | nsonha wrote:
         | given this isn't free anyway, you could have both behaviors
         | with a single app Witch (https://manytricks.com/witch)
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | Woah, rebinding the right command key. I'll need to retrain my
         | brain to get used to it, but this is really, really cool.
         | Thanks!
        
           | alin23 wrote:
           | It was a pretty much useless key for me at first, but seeing
           | how highly accessible it is for my right thumb, I prototyped
           | rcmd in a day. I got used to it very fast. My colleague also
           | got used to it in the same day, so we thought to share it.
           | 
           | Most people trying out rcmd tell me that in less than a day
           | it has become something they can't go back from so it feels
           | pretty nice to know I've improved at least a few workflows
           | ^_^
        
         | behnamoh wrote:
         | I wish something similar to Autohotkey was available for mac.
         | Karabiner comes cloes, but it's not quite the same thing.
        
           | alin23 wrote:
           | How about skhd? https://github.com/koekeishiya/skhd
           | 
           | I use it to simply bind hotkeys to shell commands in a single
           | config file.
           | 
           | Given the full power of the shell, you can even use
           | AppleScript (through osascript) if you want to automate the
           | UI/system like AutoHotkey does.
           | 
           | It can also send key events using the -k flag so you can
           | remap keys to other key combinations.
        
             | philsnow wrote:
             | I haven't used Autohotkey or skhd but I use hammerspoon for
             | any kind of macos UI automation and it's pretty great, and
             | uses lua instead of applescript.
        
               | alin23 wrote:
               | Oh yeah, Hammerspoon is a much better alternative to
               | AutoHotkey, how could I forget about it.
               | 
               | It can even create simple and quite useful UIs, here's an
               | example of someone using it to create a stack visualizer
               | for the yabai window manager: https://user-
               | images.githubusercontent.com/1683979/90967233-0...
               | 
               | [1] https://github.com/AdamWagner/stackline
        
           | PainfullyNormal wrote:
        
       | jolux wrote:
       | A recommendation, apropos of this discussion on window
       | management: three finger swipe up on the trackpad for Mission
       | Control/Expose if you need a specific window. I know trackpads
       | are below most programmers but I've found this is faster than
       | hammering alt-tab on Windows if you have a lot of stuff open.
       | Still use Cmd-tab and Cmd-` most of the time though.
        
         | jaywalk wrote:
         | You know you can click on the window you want while holding
         | Alt+Tab, right?
        
           | jolux wrote:
           | Yes, but I still prefer Mission Control. Possibly because I
           | think in terms of apps, not windows.
        
       | ars wrote:
       | Anyone know how get Focus-follows-mouse to work in MacOS?
       | 
       | It kind of works in the terminal, but only partially, and not in
       | any other application.
        
       | monksy wrote:
       | The more I use macs, which I'm forced to at work, the less I like
       | them and the more I feel like Apple just really hates their
       | users. They want to dictate how you use these and what it looks
       | like. (I.e. smart quotes.. as a dev that fucks up everything, alt
       | tab, annoying normal user interactions alternatives)
        
       | cfn wrote:
       | This is great! Coming from Windows I am always annoyed when cmd-
       | tab does not restore a minimized window in MacOS. I don't really
       | understand the logic of it. If the app window is minimized it is
       | obvious (to me) that it should be restored when I cmd-tab to it.
       | Why doesn't it do this?
        
       | ComputerGuru wrote:
       | I wrote the opposite: an implementation of macOS' cmd-` (switch
       | between open windows of the same application) for Windows:
       | https://neosmart.net/blog/2017/easy-window-switcher/
        
       | sarahdellysse wrote:
       | Oh wow, this is great! I have tried other window-based
       | application switchers but never really liked how they worked. I
       | understand that macOS has a app-centric model but I find that
       | switching between windows works so much better for me.
        
       | chrstphrknwtn wrote:
       | What's wrong with Command + Tab?
        
         | maztaim wrote:
         | Nothing's wrong with it, unless you prefer alt-tab to switch
         | windows. I personally prefer to choose my own adventure.
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | It switches between applications, not windows.
        
         | mmerlin wrote:
         | It's inefficient after a decade or more of AltTabbing in
         | Windows becomes a muscle memory that is thought-flow breaking
         | when having to un-train that automatic keyboard reflex.
        
         | randomluck040 wrote:
         | Imagine you're on a German keyboard and want to switch between
         | Firefox windows. In that case I need to do cmd + shift + `
         | which need two hands since ` is in the upper right corner.
         | That's the only use for me: switch between windows of the same
         | app easier.
        
         | therealmarv wrote:
         | you mean [?] Command + `
        
       | gms7777 wrote:
       | Some feedback from a mac user (if this is your project): The only
       | description of the functionality on the page is "brings the power
       | of Windows's "alt-tab" window switcher to macOS." As someone that
       | hasn't used Windows in years, this doesn't actually tell me
       | anything. What does this do that command-tab and command-` don't
       | already do in mac?
        
         | SOTGO wrote:
         | It eliminates the hierarchy of windows being necessarily part
         | of an application. Alt-Tab on windows shows only open windows
         | ordered by last time as the focused window with no grouping by
         | application.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | It doesn't really eliminate it because you are still going to
           | have to switch modes to navigate a tabbed interface within a
           | window.
        
         | SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
         | I started using this to provide customization rather than being
         | Windows-like.
         | 
         | It's pretty customizable, so everyone's experience and
         | preferences will be different but here are some of mine.
         | 
         | 1. Command + Tab > Cycle all windows, within all spaces, on
         | active screen (rather than all screens).
         | 
         | 2. Command + ` > Same as above, but only for the focused/active
         | application.
         | 
         | 3. Customized size of thumbnail, font, items per row, and
         | overall screen real estate.
         | 
         | 4. Mouse location = active screen
         | 
         | 5. Hidden windows show at the end of the cycle
        
           | jasonlotito wrote:
           | Pretty sure this also doesn't bring windows to the front when
           | selected, either.
        
         | mort96 wrote:
         | One absolutely huge limitation of macOS (IMO) is that cmd-`
         | doesn't let you switch to windows on other workspaces. That
         | means, if you have, say, one terminal window on one workspace
         | and one on the other, there's no easy way to switch to the
         | terminal window on the other workspace.
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | This is very subjective matter and any of us would like our
           | own customized desktop. You probably organize your workspace
           | in a different way than I do. I associate virtual desktops
           | with customers on my Linux machine plus one for me. (Those
           | should be workspaces on a Mac.) I have one terminal open in
           | every desktop, one editor window in every desktop, one
           | Firefox window in every desktop plus whatever I need for a
           | given customer. I really don't want to alt tab to windows in
           | a different desktop. It has no purpose in my setup because I
           | want to stay within the boundaries of the customer I'm
           | working for. I'm pretty sure this is the default behavior but
           | I can bet there is a way to tweak it. Plenty of extensions to
           | customize the GNOME desktop.
        
           | klodolph wrote:
           | Use cmd-tab, and while holding command, press up/down arrow
           | on an app. This will show all windows open in that app,
           | regardless of workspace. Minimized windows will be at the
           | bottom.
        
         | krferriter wrote:
         | It enables you to actually switch between windows, not between
         | applications. If you have 3 windows of Chrome open, on Mac if
         | you alt-tab to it it raises all 3 windows to the top of the
         | desktop window stack, hiding any other windows which may
         | overlap with one of these Chrome windows. This is very
         | inconvenient if you want to be able to still see another
         | window, say, TextEdit, you have open but it becomes hidden by
         | Chrome window 2 you don't care about that got raised to the
         | cover the TextEdit window merely because you switched to Chrome
         | window 1. Switching directly to one single window is very
         | clunky on MacOS by default.
        
           | klodolph wrote:
           | Command-tab already does this. Just keep holding command, use
           | the up/down arrow to drill into the windows for the selected
           | application. Play around with it you'll figure it out.
           | 
           | It looks like this tool just simplifies it and gets rid of
           | the hierarchy, so you don't have to remember which
           | application owns the window you're looking for.
        
       | azca wrote:
       | Have been using this for a few years and the most amazing usecase
       | is being able to switch between multiple chrome windows, just
       | like windows used to let me do "same app, different window
       | instances", with a preview!
       | 
       | The other thing that works well with this for a life upgrade on a
       | mac is finicky (GitHub.com/johnste/finicky )
        
       | beepbooptheory wrote:
       | Am I huge fan of i3wm, but have to use Windows for my job (which
       | is not a tech job in any way). At a certain point I realized that
       | Alt-Tab for switching and Meta-Left/Right for the half screen
       | tiling is totally fine and pretty much all I need to get a
       | sufficiently familiar flow. I still keep i3wm on my personal
       | laptop because its a much smaller screen.
        
       | jaimehrubiks wrote:
       | I use a keyboard mapper (better touch tool in my case) to
       | configure Option+Tab to switch between windows of the same app.
       | So I am constantly using Command+Tab and Option+Tab all the time,
       | I think I could never come back. I also did not understand what
       | this app brings, is it a preview of those windows?
        
         | xenadu02 wrote:
         | Command-` does this natively: cycle through windows of the
         | active application. Note that on an ANSI keyboard backtick is
         | right above Tab so it makes sense from a layout perspective.
        
           | jaimehrubiks wrote:
           | Lol you are right. Didn't know. I'll stick to my solution
           | though now that I got so used to. I also have a few other
           | nice shortcuts like:
           | 
           | option+< and option+> to resize window to left and right, and
           | option+p to maximize. And also control+j and control+k to
           | switch tabs in browsers and terminals.
           | 
           | Probably there are also native shortcuts for that, but I like
           | how I can make mines consistent across all apps.
        
           | dmart wrote:
           | However, Command-` does not work across desktops, while this
           | app does. That's my main reason for using it.
        
         | yodon wrote:
         | This app is designed to give you Windows-style switching. MacOS
         | is app-centric, so you have to switch to an app and then switch
         | through the windows of the app. Windows has a unified window
         | stack so Alt-Tab always takes you to the previous window,
         | regardless of what app is responsible for that window. Repeated
         | uses Alt-Tab takes you back through your most recently used
         | windows, regardless of the Apps involved.
        
         | nuccy wrote:
         | Thanks for the advice, I frequently struggle with cmd+` since I
         | have to use both MacOS and Linux regularly. Actually to remap
         | cmd+` to option+tab there is no need to use any third-party
         | apps, the settings (at least in Monterey) are available under
         | System Settings->Keyboard->Shortcuts->Keyboard->"Move focus to
         | next window".
        
       | lsiunsuex wrote:
       | hold command press tab
       | 
       | press the up arrow
       | 
       | let go of command
       | 
       | press tab to cycle through windows in their size as they
       | originally appeared, preview and all
        
       | arusahni wrote:
       | I paid for Witch and have been pretty happy with it [1]. Only
       | issue is very occasionally the MacOS switcher and the Witch
       | switcher both appear and fight for control.
       | 
       | [1] https://manytricks.com/witch/
        
         | js2 wrote:
         | I assign them different activation keys. I use option-tab for
         | Witch and cmd-tab for the built-in switcher.
        
       | viraatdas wrote:
       | How is this different from Contexts?
       | 
       | https://contexts.co/
        
       | markvaneijk wrote:
       | What about the F3 key on a Mac, this let's you see all Windows
       | and choose one..
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | Last time I tried doing that, it didn't even keep windows in
         | the same place, breaking spatial memory. Is that still the
         | case?
        
           | markvaneijk wrote:
           | You're right.. That seems to be the biggest difference with
           | this Alt-Tab solution.
        
       | yodon wrote:
       | For Mac users asking "how is this different from the keystrokes I
       | already have", this app is designed to give you Windows-style
       | switching which is subtlety but fundamentally different from OSX-
       | style window switching.
       | 
       | MacOS is app-centric, so you have a keystroke to switch between
       | apps and a keystroke to switch through the windows of the app.
       | Windows is window-centric rather than app-centric, with a unified
       | window stack so a single keystroke (Alt-Tab) always takes you to
       | the previous window, regardless of what app is responsible for
       | that window. Repeated Alt-Tab's take you back through your most
       | recently used windows, regardless of the Apps involved.
       | 
       | OSX users generally can't imagine not knowing what apps their
       | windows are associated with, and Windows users generally can't
       | imagine being expected to care what apps their windows are
       | associated with.
       | 
       | The difference is largely a historical artifact of the Macintosh
       | operating system not originally supporting "multitasking." When
       | the Mac first came out, it could only run one application at a
       | time. If you wanted to switch between a spreadsheet and a word
       | processor you had to close one application and open the other.
       | Then the concept of a "switcher" was invented, which gave you the
       | sense that the Mac was running multiple applications because it
       | could do app-to-app context switching behind the scenes to make
       | it feel like you were running multiple applications
       | simultaneously. All of this meant there was no OS-level concept
       | of "the window stack" there was only an app-level concept of
       | window history, and a separate OS-level concept of app history.
       | 
       | Windows launched after the Mac, into an era of slightly more
       | powerful processors and better understanding of user behavior on
       | truly multi-application devices. These differences led Microsoft
       | to adopt an OS-level unified window history model. Apple
       | undoubtedly discussed the idea, but even by the time Windows
       | launched Mac users were fully accustomed to the Mac's windowing
       | model and would have complained mightily at the conceptual switch
       | had it been attempted then or at any other point in time.
       | 
       | The more time you spend in one ecosystem, the more natural its
       | approach feels to you, because you adapt to your environment over
       | time.
        
         | gms7777 wrote:
         | I was one of the mac users that made that comment -- my point
         | wasn't that this application isn't useful, it was that the
         | landing page doesn't even try to explain why its useful.
        
         | saghm wrote:
         | The biggest annoyance for me on MacOS is that apps that I need
         | to leave open but don't have windows open still show up in the
         | switcher. When I'm on my work laptop, I still have to tab
         | through Finder, the VPN app, etc. he rare times I need to work
         | on the Java part of our codebase, I use the ssh remote beta for
         | Intellij, which seems to open something called "Gateway", which
         | is totally reasonable except that it adds yet _another_ entry
         | to the cmd-tab menu. At this point, almost half of my cmd-tab
         | menu is stuff that doesn't even have windows open. Back when I
         | used MacOS more I had used something that I had gotten from the
         | App Store way back (I think it was called "Witcher" or
         | something), but with all the management software that the
         | company has running in the background, the system already lags
         | a decent amount every now and then, so I don't really want to
         | add any more stuff for the management softwware to take up CPU
         | time scanning. (I recognize that last part isn't specific to
         | MacOS, but I can't help but feel like a user friendly OS would
         | have better options built in specifically for cases where
         | customization might not otherwise be desirable).
        
           | klodolph wrote:
           | I think a big part of this is just the fact that desktop is
           | overall not a priority these days for anyone. The app
           | developers could easily enough prevent their app from showing
           | up in the switcher, and there are apps that do that--like
           | Quicksilver, Display Menu, etc.
        
         | klodolph wrote:
         | > The difference is largely a historical artifact of the
         | Macintosh operating system not originally supporting
         | "multitasking."
         | 
         | This is a nice story, but reading on it seems like you're
         | saying that the way app switching works on Windows as the
         | Obvious and Correct thing to do, and that the Macintosh way of
         | doing things is nothing more than a choice that was made too
         | long ago to change.
         | 
         | Honestly, that's absurd.
         | 
         | The Macintosh has a menu bar at the top of the screen which
         | belongs to the foreground application. This is a reasonable
         | place to put a menu bar, because it is easy to click on things
         | which are at the edge or (better yet) corner of the screen.
         | This is a perfectly reasonable justification for having a
         | foreground application.
         | 
         | Windows places the menu bar inside each window. So there is no
         | need for "foreground application", only foreground window.
         | 
         | That's all that you need in terms of explanation. The Mac puts
         | its menu bar at the top of the screen, Windows puts it inside
         | each window. There's no need to tell some story about how the
         | Macintosh was created during a more primitive era of computing
         | history, because that story has no explanatory power.
        
           | alphachloride wrote:
           | With window-specific menus, I can directly click on and open
           | the menu button of another app/window without first having to
           | focus it first to see the menu options. I find that to be
           | more intuitive.
           | 
           | I have always been a windows user and my intuition was shaped
           | accordingly. So to me that is the obvious and correct thing
           | to do.
        
             | klodolph wrote:
             | I find it faster to use the keyboard. On the Mac, I can
             | switch to the browser or terminal and open a new window
             | with cmd-tab and followed by cmd-N.
        
             | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
             | It's actually surprising to me that the behaviour you
             | describes works as it does. I would expect the first click
             | to focus the window, then a second click to be required to
             | open the menu. Does that mean that, if you want to focus a
             | window, you have to find 'dead space' to click on if you
             | don't want some other side effect?
        
               | banana_giraffe wrote:
               | yes, on either MacOS or Windows, if you click on an area
               | in a window that doesn't have focus that triggers some
               | action, that action will be triggered.
               | 
               | There are exceptions on both platforms, games being
               | common because of how they grab input.
               | 
               | I've long since gotten in the habit of using the title
               | bar or window-resizing area to safely activate a window
               | .. when I'm using the mouse to change focus.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | What's the connection between the menu bar and window
           | switching?
        
             | klodolph wrote:
             | On a Mac, you want to be able to switch the foreground
             | application. This is what command-tab does, it switches the
             | foreground application.
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | I'm on a Mac right now but I'm still having trouble
               | understanding the relation. Say I want to switch the
               | foreground application so I press command-tab, I get
               | that, but how does that relate to menus being inside or
               | outside the application?
        
               | klodolph wrote:
               | Because the menu bar is associated with the application,
               | not with the window. An open application does not need to
               | have any open windows at all.
        
               | yodon wrote:
               | The concept of "an open application with no open windows"
               | is a very OSX thing that other windowing OS's manage to
               | avoid without effort or difficulty. There are lots of
               | ways to represent background tasks, services, VPN's, etc,
               | that don't require the concept of "an app without
               | windows" in a windowing OS (and without polluting the app
               | switching experience as other commenters have complained
               | about).
        
               | wtallis wrote:
               | Why are you framing "an application with no open windows"
               | as an idea that should be _avoided_? It 's a useful
               | concept, especially when dealing with heavy applications
               | that take a while to launch (perhaps with a splash
               | screen). It's also _not_ how truly background services
               | are represented to the user; only temporarily
               | backgrounded aplications use this paradigm. Stuff that 's
               | meant to almost always be in the background with little
               | or no UI (eg. VPNs) generally don't take space in the
               | Dock.
               | 
               | I think it's a lot more fair to say that other desktop
               | environments lack an equivalent because they don't have a
               | cohesive notion of "application" in the first place,
               | though influence from OS X/macOS has been pushing other
               | desktop environments in that direction (see eg. the
               | evolution of the Windows taskbar)
        
               | flenserboy wrote:
               | Yes. Having applications running and immediately
               | accessible without windows present is more than handy,
               | especially as those applications (generally) take up
               | essentially no active memory & cpu.
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | How does the file manager work on non-macOS in this
               | context? That's probably my most common use case for an
               | app with no (current) open windows.
        
               | yodon wrote:
               | Windows would just have you open the file manager app
               | when you need a file manager window. No need for the
               | "app" to be always open. To Windows users, it feels
               | extremely strange to have an app that's always open that
               | you can't close.
        
               | klodolph wrote:
               | I find it very convenient, because I often have multiple
               | file manager windows open, and it's easy to accidentally
               | close the last window.
        
               | wtallis wrote:
               | Windows Explorer is exactly this, so this behavior is not
               | _at all_ foreign to Windows. The only meaningful
               | difference in how these two UIs expose this same behind-
               | the-scenes behavior (in recent versions) is that on
               | Windows you have the option of removing Explorer from the
               | taskbar if there are no open windows, while macOS Finder
               | is always present in the dock.
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | For current Windows I wouldn't say backend behavior of
               | Explorer is very similar to Finder at all. The "always
               | running" Explorer instance is more similar to the system
               | menu bar+dock which are separate components and processes
               | from Finder. The "file browser" Explorer instances are
               | more similar to Finder but are transient, the process
               | only runs and shows as a running app in the task bar when
               | you launch it and ceases to when be a process when you
               | close it. The start menu functionality itself shares some
               | aspects with Finder but that's not explorer anymore.
               | 
               | In Windows XP days the behavior was very different and
               | could be argued to be similar to any or all of those
               | macOS components as Explorer was all of those things
               | under one process for efficiency reasons.
        
               | klodolph wrote:
               | "Open application without windows" is not the same thing
               | as "background task." When I run PostgreSQL on my Mac, it
               | doesn't show up in the application switcher, because it's
               | not an application.
               | 
               | I find it convenient to be able to have an application
               | with no windows. The big reason is for applications with
               | longer startup times--unfortunately, something we don't
               | have a good solution for. The other thing I like about it
               | is that I can close a document and create a new document
               | without figuring out if I need to reopen the application
               | after closing a document. Closing a window only closes
               | the application for cases where that makes sense (System
               | Preferences).
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | Open windows or no open windows I still don't see how any
               | of that says anything about the way the scope of the
               | switcher works. There is no law of UI that says "an app
               | with no foreground windows must not be switched to the
               | same way via the same method as a window from another app
               | would be".
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | On Mac, you can have an application open with no windows.
               | In that situation, you have to be able to switch
               | 'applications', not just 'windows'.
        
               | NaOH wrote:
               | >On Mac, you can have an application open with no
               | windows.
               | 
               | The exception to this is applications which can only
               | display one window, such as System Preferences. Close
               | that one window and the application will also be quit. As
               | a lifetime Apple user dating to before the Mac, it's no
               | issue for me, and I can understand the interface logic in
               | play there, but to common users that logic is not
               | apparent. I've seen plenty of average users who switched
               | to Mac from Windows and they are usually baffled because
               | to them the idea of "Xing out the last window" should
               | always means the application is now quit.
        
               | nick_ wrote:
               | There isn't a relation.
        
             | nick_ wrote:
             | There isn't one. The two are orthogonal.
        
           | nsonha wrote:
           | this is actually quite an objective matter, most humans think
           | visually and they will create a mental map of the WINDOWS in
           | their mind, not the APPS. So making the subject of the action
           | an abstract thing they can't see (the app, sometimes) would
           | be the absurd thing.
        
           | Shacklz wrote:
           | > This is a perfectly reasonable justification for having a
           | foreground application.
           | 
           | Except when you start having multiple monitors. Then it's an
           | utter mess, and I have no idea how the Mac-enthusiasts are
           | putting up with it. And as far as I'm aware, most actually
           | kind of don't - the few mac-enthusiasts that I know all use
           | their customized setup that heavily relies on third-party-
           | tools.
        
             | wlesieutre wrote:
             | Using a couple of virtual desktops and "show all windows"
             | is more efficient for switching between windows than alt-
             | tabbing through a linear list. I can't speak for mouse
             | people, but the trackpad gestures are very good for getting
             | around quickly.
        
             | klodolph wrote:
             | Been using multiple monitors with macOS for at least a
             | couple decades at this point. I switch back and forth
             | between macOS, Windows, and Linux regularly--so I don't
             | feel like I'm missing out on experiences from other OSs. My
             | macOS setup is completely stock these days. I don't see
             | what the problem is, could you elaborate?
        
           | nick_ wrote:
           | A stack of the most-recently-in-focus windows is more
           | practical than a stack of the most-recently-in-focus apps.
           | 
           | The absurd thing to me is that macOS didn't adopt this
           | simpler workflow model.
           | 
           | No one is trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater
           | here. macOS is a very good OS. Windows does this one aspect
           | better.
        
             | flenserboy wrote:
             | Only seen as such when coming from a Windows background.
             | The Windows paradigm is maddening when approached from the
             | perspective of someone who has used Macs for decades.
        
         | wolpoli wrote:
         | > Windows launched after the Mac, into an era of slightly more
         | powerful processors and better understanding of user behavior
         | on truly multi-application devices. These differences led
         | Microsoft to adopt an OS-level unified window history model.
         | 
         | Yet Microsoft seems to be walking away from this model.
         | 
         | The Windows Taskbar was built on that, but has since diverged
         | quite a bit from that model. The Windows 95 taskbar originally
         | showed one entry per Window, until Windows XP started grouping
         | Windows together when the Taskbar gets too crowded. Then
         | Windows 7 started hiding the labels and made the Taskbar into a
         | combined program launcher/window switcher, which now made the
         | behavior of clicking on the icon itself very inconsistent,
         | depending on the state of the program:
         | 
         | - when no instance of the program is running - shows the
         | launching program animation and launches the program and brings
         | the window on top
         | 
         | - when program has one window minimized - shows the
         | unminimizing animation and brings the window on top
         | 
         | - when has one window not in focus - brings the window on top
         | 
         | - When program has one window on top - shows the minimizing
         | animation and minimizes the window
         | 
         | - When program has multiple windows - opens the Taskbar Live
         | Preview
        
         | binarycrusader wrote:
         | _Windows launched after the Mac_
         | 
         | Only by a little bit of time in some regards; for Windows 1.0
         | Microsoft first presented it to the public on November 10,
         | 1983. The first retail release, originally slated for release
         | in April 1984, Windows 1.01, was instead released on November
         | 20, 1985. System 1, the classic Macintosh System Software was
         | released in January 1984.
         | 
         | Also, yes, the Lisa was arguably the first to ship with the
         | Desktop graphical interface most like the Macintosh prior to
         | that even.
         | 
         | I'd posit that both Windows and Macintosh graphical user
         | interface designs started around the same time effectively due
         | to the market and depending on whether you were in the
         | education or business sector, you could perceive the
         | pervasiveness of each wildly differently.
         | 
         | I personally believe the Macintosh designers' early choice to
         | heavily lean on skeuomorphic designs and its popularity in the
         | nascent Desktop computer publishing industry reinforced the
         | architectural multi-tasking choices made early in its
         | development.
        
           | yodon wrote:
           | Windows 1.0 was technically a thing but as you probably know
           | the thing the rest of the world thinks of as Windows didn't
           | really launch until Windows 3 (and arguably didn't really
           | fully ship until 3.11)
        
         | 40four wrote:
         | I appreciate your detailed explanation, I came to the comments
         | for exactly this reason. "How is Windows 'Alt-tab' any
         | different".
         | 
         | I hate to say, I'm still not following you :) I have spent
         | plenty of time developing of both Mac & Windows systems. I
         | still can't think of any difference in behavior.
         | 
         | What you said _In Windows "with a unified window stack so a
         | single keystroke (Alt-Tab) always takes you to the previous
         | window"_ , this is the same on Mac. A single press of "Cmd-tab"
         | always goes to the previous window. So if you press it, release
         | & repeat, you will just keep toggling the same two windows.
         | Same behavior.
         | 
         | Mac, as you mentioned gives you an extra layer, where you can
         | cycle windows of the same App 'type' with "Cmd - `". Which I
         | find very useful, and actually miss when I'm on Windows.
         | 
         | What am I missing? "Alt - tab" & "Cmd - tab" have the same
         | behavior, no? Then Mac gives you the extra "Cmd - `". Why would
         | I want them Windows behavior? Maybe I should just download it
         | and try for myself haha.
        
           | jonny_eh wrote:
           | Let's say you have Firefox and Chrome open, each with two
           | windows. alt+tab on Windows cycles between all 4. cmd+tab on
           | Mac cycles between each apps most recently focused window.
           | 
           | Hold cmd and press tab on a Mac, notice that it doesn't even
           | show windows, it shows app icons.
        
             | 40four wrote:
             | Ahhh... okay I get it now. I'm a little slow sometimes :)
             | 
             | That's a good example. So "Cmd - tab" brings all the
             | windows of a particular app to the forefront, but shows the
             | most recent, while the others are 'buried'. Then requiring
             | the "Cmd - `" to dig out the older ones.
             | 
             | Yeah it's subtle, but I see the difference now, thanks for
             | setting me straight!
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | > but shows the most recent
               | 
               | Apart from when, due to a bug in recent macOS, it brings
               | up a different window. Which is _incredibly_ frustrating.
        
             | klodolph wrote:
             | Note that you also can cycle between any window with
             | command-tab. Press command-tab, and while holding command,
             | press up or down arrow. This will drill into the windows
             | for that application and let you select a specific window,
             | without first bringing that application to the front.
        
         | jonny_eh wrote:
         | As a former Windows, but now Mac, user I find Mac's system to
         | work just fine. Especially once you learn that cmd+~ switches
         | between the current app's windows. Plus, 4-finger swipe up
         | shows all the current open windows.
        
           | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
           | I wish window switching worked in the same way as app
           | switching, though. The former acts like a stack while the
           | latter acts like a queue - I have no idea why.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | Works fine until half your "apps" are actually browser
           | windows, and exhausting trying to remember which key do you
           | use based on which app you need to switch to.
        
           | klodolph wrote:
           | You can also use the up/down arrow when you have the app
           | switcher open to drill into the windows for that application.
        
       | mr_november wrote:
       | This is cool but as a long time macOS user who is now on Windows
       | at least half time, I really miss Cmd + Tab application switching
       | when on Windows.
       | 
       | Anyone know of a way to get that behaviour in Windows?
        
         | abdusco wrote:
         | If you pin (you don't have to) an app to the taskbar, you can
         | hit [Win] + [index num] on the keyboard and it switches to app
         | at that index. Keep hitting the num key and you switch between
         | the windows of that app.
         | 
         | Pinning the app will assign it an index (the icon won't change
         | position) so you can switch to windows of your editor with
         | Win+2 and windows of file explorer with Win+1 without even
         | looking at the taskbar, for example.
         | 
         | Here's a detailed description from HowToGeek[0]:
         | 
         | > Press the Windows key along with a number key to launch the
         | corresponding app. On the taskbar above, for example, Windows+3
         | would launch Google Chrome, Windows+4 would launch Slack, and
         | so on all the way up through Windows+0 for Outlook. Using these
         | keyboard shortcuts on an app that's already running will toggle
         | the app between a minimized and maximized state.
         | 
         | > You can also hold down Shift while using those shortcuts to
         | launch a new instance of an app that's already running. In our
         | example, pressing Shift+Windows+3 would open a new window for
         | Chrome, even if Chrome is already open.
         | 
         | > Using the Ctrl key with those shortcuts displays the most
         | recently launched instance of an app. For example, say you had
         | three File Explorer windows open on your PC, and File Explorer
         | was in the first position on your taskbar. Pressing
         | Ctrl+Windows+1 would show you the File Explorer window you most
         | recently opened.
         | 
         | [0]: https://www.howtogeek.com/276982/the-most-useful-keyboard-
         | sh...
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | Context: Cmd-Tab in macOS switches between the foremost windows
         | of open applications (i.e. never between windows of the same
         | app).
         | 
         | I don't have a solution for you, but if you used the complement
         | feature cmd-` (switch between open windows of the currently
         | focused app) I _did_ implement that for Windows:
         | https://neosmart.net/blog/2017/easy-window-switcher/
        
       | lloydatkinson wrote:
       | Wait what, macOS doesn't have any built in equivalent?
        
         | krferriter wrote:
         | No. There is no way to get MacOS to be able to switch between
         | open windows on a desktop via a keyboard shortcut without
         | installing 3rd party software that adds this basic
         | functionality.
        
           | therealmarv wrote:
           | not true: [?] Command + `
        
             | bragh wrote:
             | This only switches between windows of the same app. On
             | Windows, with Alt+Tab you switch between all of the
             | currently open windows of all applications.
        
             | wccrawford wrote:
             | Not quite. That will switch between windows of a single
             | app.
             | 
             | The AltTab thing here will switch between all windows of
             | all apps.
             | 
             | I actually like having them separate like OSX does it, even
             | though I'm generally a Windows guy.
        
             | krferriter wrote:
             | Nope, that doesn't do it. If I have 2 Chrome windows and 3
             | terminal windows and 2 text editor windows open on MacOS,
             | there is _no_ way to merely switch from a Chrome window to
             | a specific terminal window. You have to switch to the
             | terminal application, which raises _all_ 3 terminal windows
             | to the top of the window stack on whichever display they
             | are on, then switch between terminal windows. To enable the
             | basic feature of switching directly between windows, you
             | have to install 3rd party software.
        
               | therealmarv wrote:
               | I get with keyboard only to a specific window without any
               | 3rd party app this way... I think the question is solved
               | in a way (not saying it's the best way)
        
             | nsonha wrote:
             | I don't think this affects minimized app which is another
             | annoyance
        
           | klodolph wrote:
           | Cmd-tab, and then while holding command, use up/down arrow to
           | drill into the windows for a specific app. I realize that
           | this is not great if you need to switch back and forth
           | between the same two windows over and over again.
        
         | therealmarv wrote:
         | [?] Command + `
        
         | MBCook wrote:
         | The Mac has its own key commands for switching between windows.
         | Cmd-Tab and Cmd-`.
         | 
         | It does not have a key command that is 100% identical in
         | behavior to Alt-Tab.
         | 
         | That bugs some people, it seems.
        
         | silon42 wrote:
         | Yup... I tried macOS for a few months... first thing I went
         | looking for (well, second after switching command/alt or
         | whatever it is).
        
           | nsonha wrote:
           | as I'm using mac fulltime I have to do it the other way, in
           | my window any linux machine I map their Ctrls to the Meta
           | key. There is a program called kinto that does it.
        
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