[HN Gopher] Hacking F-117A
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hacking F-117A
        
       Author : elvis70
       Score  : 152 points
       Date   : 2022-05-07 05:35 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | EdwardDiego wrote:
       | Ah, good ol Cheat Engine, I used this on F-19 back in the good ol
       | DOS TSR[0] days on my 286. Froze the value of the address in
       | memory that counted how many 500lb bombs I had, then held down
       | Enter to drop my infinite bombs continuously and brought hell to
       | Soviet Russia.
       | 
       | [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminate-and-stay-
       | resident_...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | Tangentially, did the F-117 Wikipedia page redact the story of
       | the Amiriyah massacre? I'm almost certain it used to contain a
       | section about it (?).
        
         | melling wrote:
         | Perhaps the information was simply moved?
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiriyah_shelter_bombing
        
           | perihelions wrote:
           | It used to cite or transclude it though; the F-117 entry was
           | where I learned about it from.
        
             | formerly_proven wrote:
             | If only Wikipedia had usable revision tools instead of
             | their atrocious CVS clone.
        
               | emsixteen wrote:
               | It's the editors that are the problem, not the software.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | No, the software's a problem in this case too.
        
             | thrdbndndn wrote:
             | I mean.. OK? It honestly doesn't sound like a fitting
             | content for article [[F-117]] to me. A link when talking
             | about its missile capacity? Sure. But other than that it
             | should go to its own article.
        
               | enriquto wrote:
               | Why? It seems appropriate content. The F-117 is, by
               | construction and design, a machine for killing people. It
               | is natural to showcase its most "successful" mission.
        
               | thrdbndndn wrote:
               | Because it already has a standalone article?
        
               | enriquto wrote:
               | Of course, but this notorious bombing must be mentioned
               | as well, with a link to its main article.
               | 
               | Just like the article on the B-29 superfortress [0]
               | mentions and links to the article about the bombing of
               | Hiroshima and Nagasaki [1].
               | 
               | [0]
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-29_Superfortress
               | 
               | [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hi
               | roshima...
        
               | stickfigure wrote:
               | Not to say that the shelter bombing isn't a tragedy, but
               | it's nowhere near the scale.
               | 
               | > killed at least 408 civilians
               | 
               | vs
               | 
               | > The two bombings killed between 129,000 and 226,000
               | people
               | 
               | Maybe it's a sad state of affairs that 400 civilian
               | deaths isn't that remarkable, but this is the world we
               | live in. More than that died in the Mariupol theatre
               | airstrike, but we don't need to link that from every
               | airplane and munition article.
               | 
               | Sorry. I wish this shit was less common too.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | thrdbndndn wrote:
               | The a-bombing on Japan was a much impactful/influential
               | event, and more importantly, for whatever reason, it was
               | heavily associated with B-29 (probably THE reason why
               | B-29 was famous in average people to begin with).
               | 
               | This is what makes the bombing event essential for B-29's
               | article.
               | 
               | The Amiriyah bombing doesn't really have such connotation
               | with the plane.
        
             | uuuooobbb wrote:
             | It's linked from the GBU-27 bomb article
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBU-27_Paveway_III
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | holoduke wrote:
       | Looks like the game retaliator. Is this the same engine?
        
       | netsharc wrote:
       | Ah, I have a memory of waking up early on one 90's Saturday
       | morning and loading up this game on my Pentium 100 to fly bombing
       | missions...
        
         | detritus wrote:
         | Oh! To have played this on a machine with a double digit
         | clockspeed!
         | 
         | I loved my Amiga 500, and spent many hours on F-19/F-117, but
         | crikey 7.little MHz was not a lot to play with (although quite
         | enough for the super-fast, fun but otherwise inscrutable
         | ArmourGeddon...).
        
           | thorin wrote:
           | I played that a lot too, but I always preferred f18
           | interceptor.
        
         | fer wrote:
         | I personally miss reading manuals (or at least skimming them if
         | they're big) before playing games. I guess it feels too much
         | like study/work for it to have a market nowadays; last physical
         | games I've bought had basically the same info as in-game help.
         | 
         | I recommend this site[0] for all those who want to go down
         | memory lane. Just look at this[1] or that of TFA[2].
         | 
         | [0] https://www.gamesdatabase.org/all_manuals
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Commodore_64//Man...
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Microsoft_DOS//Ma...
        
           | CalRobert wrote:
           | When I was a kid my grandparents would sometimes get me a
           | computer game when I visited. But they had no computer! This
           | meant I could spend the weekend poring over the manual in
           | anticipation.
           | 
           | My favorite was SimEarth (200+ pages and spiral bound as I
           | recall!) but TIE Fighter was great too, since the manual was
           | in the form of a novella.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | Tutorials have also become much better, sometimes with
           | incredible immersion, making manuals less necessary.
        
           | secretsatan wrote:
           | I was able to identify most military vehicles for years
           | thanks to the MicroProse copy protection, it used to spook my
           | friends.
           | 
           | I'd also go to the local library and look up the latest
           | Jane's publications.
        
             | lbeltrame wrote:
             | Back in the days I and others made an end of junior high
             | school year project on military planes and we had a monitor
             | playing clips of F-16 Falcon, F-29 Retaliator and Fighter
             | Bomber. I did however use the F-19 Stealth Fighter game
             | manual as an inspiration to write texts on the improvised
             | stand we were using. We also had some model kits on
             | display.
        
           | NovemberWhiskey wrote:
           | One of the spiritual successors to MicroProse is Eagle
           | Dynamics, the developer of the DCS World system. If you like
           | that manual, you'll love this one https://www.digitalcombatsi
           | mulator.com/upload/iblock/8e7/24m...
        
             | fer wrote:
             | Wow, never heard of them, will check them out, thanks!
        
               | jabl wrote:
               | Check Growling Sidewinder for lots of DCS videos (a lot
               | of them guns-only dogfights, but still):
               | https://www.youtube.com/c/GrowlingSidewinder
        
             | trasz wrote:
             | And those ones: https://publicintelligence.net/u-s-
             | navy-f-18-natops-flight-m.... It's one of the rare cases of
             | manuals for the real thing being applicable to a computer
             | game.
        
             | LichenStone wrote:
             | I've been looking at DCS recently, considering the AV-8B...
        
             | jamesy0ung wrote:
             | +1 for DCS, the F/A-18C is totally worth it, best
             | simulation accessible to the civilian. I love every second
             | of it.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | It was one of my favourite MS-DOS games, I have spent endless
       | hours playing it.
        
       | throwaway4good wrote:
       | I thought it was going to be about this one:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown
       | 
       | And how the Chinese reversed engineered it and the Americans
       | bombed their embassy in revenge ...
        
         | formerly_proven wrote:
         | The US bombed the Chinese embassy for revenge of reverse
         | engineering a plane shot down just a few weeks earlier by the
         | Serbs? Wow, the Chinese are incredibly fast! And the US
         | military so quick to act!
        
           | throwaway4good wrote:
           | The story would go like this: Chinese agents working out of
           | the Belgrade embassy go and buy the pieces of the F177 and
           | collect them at the embassy. The US bombs the embassy knowing
           | that even though it is an act war against China, China is in
           | no position to respond.
        
           | throwaway4good wrote:
           | Yeah. It is a persistent conspiracy theory about the embassy
           | bombing that is still around until this day (in particular in
           | China and Serbia, of course ...).
           | 
           | Here is an article from AP written ten years later,
           | essentially saying that the Chinese based their J-20 stealth
           | fighter on the pieces of the F-117 laying on the ground in
           | Serbia:
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jan/23/china-
           | stealth-...
           | 
           | Chinese stealth fighter jet may use US technology
           | 
           | China may have bought parts of US F-117 Nighthawk shot down
           | over Serbia in 1999, say experts
        
             | p_l wrote:
             | Considering that F-117 was based on thrown out Soviet paper
             | (which was declared to be publishable in the open by
             | Soviets), they migh have at most taken a look at materials
             | used for coating, but the materials weren't that great as
             | F-117 based itself on the shape not absorbing capability of
             | materials...
        
               | JacobiX wrote:
               | The paper is mentioned also in the book "Skunk Works: A
               | Personal Memoir of My Years of Lockheed". The Skunk
               | Works' design team used the equations published by Soviet
               | physicist and mathematician Petr Ufimtsev on
               | electromagnetic wave reflection to create the plane.
        
               | nickdothutton wrote:
               | Any links?
        
               | djmips wrote:
               | This is the 'paper' / monograph I think people refer to
               | when they make this claim.
               | 
               | https://archive.org/details/ufintsev-method-of-edge-
               | waves-in...
               | 
               | Wiki link about 117 development that mentions the work by
               | Pyotr Ufimtsev.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk#De
               | vel...
        
               | formerly_proven wrote:
               | Additional data point: the US made no attempt at
               | salvaging or destroying the wreckage... but then _bombed
               | an embassy_ to make a point?
               | 
               | Oh and it's not like that was the only time poor recon
               | resulted in bombs dropped in another place during the
               | intervention. The execution of it is certainly not a high
               | in NATO's history.
        
             | trasz wrote:
             | Is there any other explanation for why US bombed that
             | embassy though?
        
               | throwaway4good wrote:
               | The official story was that the intelligence officer
               | providing the target had the wrong map.
        
               | aerostable_slug wrote:
               | There's a claim out there from a former Delta operator
               | that an Intelligence Support Activity / Task Force Orange
               | guy put the laser designator on the wrong building. I
               | have no way of knowing if it's true or not.
        
               | trasz wrote:
               | One thing we know for sure is that perpetrators, as usual
               | in the Land of Freedom, never got punished.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | caycep wrote:
       | An aside - was the F-19 basically a popular fiction based on
       | sightings by the public of the YF-22 and YF-23 prototypes? Or did
       | something like this really exist?
        
         | somat wrote:
         | I am fairly confident the f-19 was the f-117, fueled by
         | aviation journalists wild imaginations, probably based on early
         | speculative concepts.
         | 
         | Or if you are more conspiracy minded a deliberate
         | misinformation campaign to further obscure what the nighthawk
         | was and was not. this conspiracy is reinforced by the f-117
         | designation itself. They used a century-series number(this
         | series of numbers had been phased out for quite some time at
         | this point) and an F(fighter) designation for something that is
         | effectively a light bomber.
         | 
         | That being said, I wonder what the actual f-19 was? The missing
         | numbers always interest me. f-17? f-19? f-20(tigershark?) f-21?
         | f-24:24? (i think I read somewhere the last gap was marketing
         | _sigh_ )
        
         | jeffdn wrote:
         | The F-19 was what people speculated the rumored "stealth
         | fighter" would be named. There had been rumors for years, but
         | the public didn't see it for the first time until 1988.
         | 
         | In Tom Clancy's book Red Storm Rising, about a hypothetical
         | Third World War in Europe, he conceives of it as something like
         | the F-35 ended up becoming -- a stealthy multirole aircraft
         | (fighter-bomber). They called it the "F-19 Frisbee". The 19
         | comes from the fact that the previous fighter designation was
         | for the F-18 Hornet.
        
       | secretsatan wrote:
       | Oh, I loved the microprose simulators
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | Time to go destroy the SAM radar at Bandar Abbas! And then a
         | terrorist training camp on the way home.
        
         | mobilio wrote:
         | And you're not alone.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | hnhg wrote:
         | Is there anything quite like them now? I love this era of
         | flight sims but the modern ones look a bit too much for me. I
         | love F-19 and later ATAC:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2pqS4fo8qA
        
           | avereveard wrote:
           | "simplified model" dcs fighter planes can be learned in a
           | evening, especially the f-15c. they do require a joystic tho.
        
             | jabl wrote:
             | Does that simplified model also include simplified
             | avionics, radars, weapons and so forth? I've looked at some
             | DCS vids on YouTube, and it looks cool but very
             | complicated.
        
               | avereveard wrote:
               | flight model is somewhat "low resolution", radar
               | performances are on point, but feaures are undermodeled,
               | like friend/foe detection is automatic, and you don't
               | have to mess with cone width and scan columns, you have
               | an average default set and that's it, weapons are the
               | same that other platforms shoot.
               | 
               | dcs may seem very complicate, because there' a ot of
               | buttons to memorize, and it indeed is for more modern
               | planes that can switch between ground/air mode, weapon
               | targeting modes, datalink modes etc
               | 
               | but
               | 
               | simplified planes with non interactive cockpit just have
               | a few step to memorize and once you're going, you're
               | going.
               | 
               | like, once you watch and execute the f-15 cold startup
               | tutorial, it's always the same sequence in the same order
               | and sets your plane exactly in the same mode ready for
               | combat.
               | 
               | (nav light management etc is there, but it's kinda
               | optional and not required to learn from the start)
               | 
               | then you get three button for radar mode you actually
               | need (close combat, flood/boresight, beyond visual
               | range), two button to switch weapon, and the rest is the
               | slightly more complicate part, which is radar management
               | 
               | you get a set of buttons to look up/down/left/right, a
               | set of button to move the pip close/far/left/right, a
               | button to toggle scan mode, and a button to lock/unlock a
               | target - it's a lot to set up, but it's quite easy as it
               | has immediate feedback on what you're doing
               | 
               | the rest comes down to actually positon yourself in a way
               | to maximize kill probability and defending from
               | retailiation.
        
           | jbattle wrote:
           | If you have a VR headset, VTOL VR is amazing. All the
           | controls you interact with by reaching out and flipping
           | toggles. The graphics are good enough. You get three aircraft
           | with the base game and there's a DLC available that adds an
           | AH64 analogue.
           | 
           | The complexity of the game hits a sweet spot for me. To get
           | into the air you have to go through some startup steps (maybe
           | 8, most of which involve hitting "power" buttons). There is
           | some light air traffic control simulation that you can
           | interact with (or just take off yolo style). Mission design
           | is diverse and there are a decent number of fan made
           | missions.
           | 
           | The initial tutorial missions do a good job getting you up in
           | the air, after that you benefit from watching some youtube
           | tutorials because each weapon system and aircraft have their
           | own unique features.
        
             | Arrath wrote:
             | Another thumbs up for VTOL VR from me. There is something
             | infinitely pleasing about reaching out and flicking those
             | engine start switches, radio control dials, and MFD buttons
             | to me, a scratch that isn't hit by the more complicated and
             | in-depth DCS start up and control routines where I'm just
             | clicking a bunch of buttons or hitting keyboard commands as
             | I have been for decades.
        
           | samlittlewood wrote:
           | ATAC programmer here - yay!
           | 
           | Random fact - the artwork was by Tom Ashton - previously the
           | guitarist for The March Violets, also performed with The
           | Sisters of Mercy, and went on to Clan of Xymox.
           | 
           | Also, this was the project I worked on before BRender -
           | covered in another thread here.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | Not exactly like them, but Tiny Combat Arena recaptures some
           | of the joy of flying these polygon-based, simplified flight
           | model flightsims. It's still in alpha (so only one playable
           | aircraft -- a Harrier -- and only one demo campaign), but
           | fast approaching 1.0, and I recommend it.
           | 
           | If you want to fly a "modern" jet without needing to read a
           | manual or learn very complex radar systems, this is the game
           | for you.
           | 
           | https://www.microprose.com/games/tiny-combat-arena/
        
             | boarnoah wrote:
             | Tiny Combat Arena's sole developer Why485 is very active on
             | twitter & previously on their blog.
             | 
             | Both profiles are well worth a scroll through if you have
             | any interest in sim-lite games. Really like the breakdowns
             | on old school simlite games and what really made them fun
             | (since it wasn't strictly a matter of realism = better).
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | Agreed it's definitely not a matter of realism = better!
               | DCS looks gorgeous and very realistic, and I know it's
               | simply not for me, because I don't want to actually
               | _work_ as a combat pilot.
               | 
               | MicroProse's F-19 is the flightsim I played and enjoyed
               | the most, and it wasn't realistic.
        
               | AustinDev wrote:
               | Fun fact some of the guys behind DCS also worked on
               | Falcon 3.0 an Falcon 4.0 back at Microprose.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | Falcon 3 and 4 are major milestones in "serious"
               | flightsims, and I toyed with both of them (3 more than
               | 4), but I cannot say I completed a single mission with
               | either.
               | 
               | MicroProse F-19 hit that awesome spot of _some_ realism
               | (laughable today, but it wasn 't meant to be an arcade
               | game back then), with a really easy flight model and cool
               | missions and scenarios you could really complete. And
               | besides knowing the keyboard mappings, you really didn't
               | need a manual. It was thrilling to play mission after
               | mission, getting all those medals, and having your
               | character be promoted in rank. I spent a lot of time with
               | that game -- probably flew as many missions as an actual
               | combat pilot!
               | 
               | The only other flightsim I found almost as engrossing was
               | Gunship 2000, with its "dynamic" campaign system, but it
               | was way more difficult.
               | 
               | I find Tiny Combat Arena captures _some_ of this
               | thrilling but simple gameplay, but it currently lacks
               | content (more campaigns, more maps, more things to do).
        
       | nickdothutton wrote:
       | I was really hoping someone had found a the mission computer and
       | some tapes on eBay.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | Me too. One of my favorite aircraft. The SR-71 gets all the
         | love but I love the Nighthawk.
        
           | HideousKojima wrote:
           | The Nighthawk looks ugly as sin to most people, which is
           | probably why it doesn't bet as much love. The B2 Spirit is
           | what I imagine the Nighthawk looking like if it weren't so
           | angular.
        
       | shever73 wrote:
       | This thread reminded me of 688 Attack Sub, which I always thought
       | was a MicroProse sim. TIL that it was originally done by EA. I
       | ordered it from the Special Reserve games club in the UK back in
       | 1990.
        
         | thelittleone wrote:
         | Oh 688 AS thanks for the flash back to the golden era of gaming
         | in my time. Reading magazines about new games. Going to local
         | game shop and checking out the box (giant box compared to
         | today). Rushing home and waiting for install of each floppy
         | disk. The games, though limited in visuals, where really
         | captivating.
         | 
         | 688 attack sub. LHX. MIG-29 Fulcrum. F15 Strike Eagle.
         | Jetfighter 2 (included the YF-23).
        
           | kingcharles wrote:
           | I think of Strike Commander as the pinnacle of this era. I
           | had to erase my entire hard drive to install it each time I
           | wanted to play. It was 32MB!
        
           | stouset wrote:
           | Pretty sure I had this game on 5-1/4" floppies back in the
           | day though I was too young to understand how to play. I
           | played a TON of F-117A though!
        
         | cwillu wrote:
         | Perhaps you were thinking of
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Storm_Rising_(video_game...
         | ?
         | 
         | The Los Angeles class was one of the playable subs
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | And (I don't see it elsewhere, but maybe it is) it was so
       | difficult to fly that it was known as "the wobbling goblin".
       | 
       | Also, I remember seeing a model kit in the window of a model shop
       | in North London, well before the plane was announced to the
       | public. Must have been in the 80s.
       | 
       | Oh, and another memory has surfaced from the compost heap that
       | passes for my brain these days - my then girlfriend bought me a
       | little friction-drive toy of one of them - also 1980s.
        
         | detritus wrote:
         | Are you sure you're not thinking of the F-19 model that came
         | out in the very late 80s? I was a bit of plane nerd at the time
         | - by early adolescent standards, at least - and I remember all
         | my books being blindsided by the F-117's ultimate form.
        
           | zabzonk wrote:
           | Nope, I don't think so - but given the state of my brain at
           | present, who knows?
           | 
           | Wikipedia: "First flight June 18, 1981; 40 years ago"
        
             | detritus wrote:
             | We didn't get to see it for nearly another decade or so,
             | though.
             | 
             | "The existence of the aircraft was officially acknowledged
             | in 1988" - https://www.britannica.com/technology/F-117
             | 
             | Certainly, the precursor to the above game, F-19, was
             | released in 1988, with the assumption that the plane looked
             | something alike that on the box-art.
        
               | zabzonk wrote:
               | Me:
               | 
               | > Also, I remember seeing a model kit in the window of a
               | model shop in North London, well before the plane was
               | announced to the public. Must have been in the 80s.
               | 
               | Note "well before the plane was announced to the public"
               | 
               | This would have been far before 1988.
        
               | detritus wrote:
               | The shop in between Holborn and Tottenham Court road, by
               | any chance? Always loved that place.
               | 
               | In regards to the model and the time, I suspect you're
               | mistaken, but .. meh.
        
               | zabzonk wrote:
               | > The shop in between Holborn and Tottenham Court road,
               | by any chance?
               | 
               | Beatties, I think. I used to pop in there on my way home
               | from Touche Ross, accountants, where I had a mangement
               | gig - I used to think "If only I had back then compared
               | to what I do now ..." - and had grand designs for an
               | N-guage railway setup - girlfriend vetoed it. Never
               | bought anything. Ooh, but wait, I do seem to remember
               | buying my little nephew an R/C car there!
               | 
               | Regarding the F177, the shop was in Southgate, North
               | London, cannot remember the name, oposite tube station,
               | but I am right :-)
        
               | mjg59 wrote:
               | Multiple model kits of the F-19 were released in the 80s 
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-19#Notable_appearances_i
               | n_me...) - they have a vague resemblance to the F-117,
               | but I don't know of any releases of F-117 models before
               | it was officially revealed.
        
       | throw__away7391 wrote:
       | I learned not too long ago that the reason the F-117 looks so
       | much like a low-poly model is because the computers available at
       | the time that they used to design it could only handle radar
       | profile calculations for low-poly models.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | praetor13 wrote:
         | There's a great book called "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich (head of
         | the F-117 project) that goes into the development. It's amazing
         | what they were able to accomplish with so little computing
         | power.
        
           | FredPret wrote:
           | I loved that book. They started off with nothing but slide
           | rules and large brains. Incredible.
        
           | SkyMarshal wrote:
           | /second that book, one of the best on advanced aviation and
           | aerospace engineering.
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | mysterydip wrote:
         | I thought it was because the stealth tech was based on
         | faceting. This deflects the majority of radar energy directed
         | at it so it doesn't return to the source to be detected.
        
           | barkingcat wrote:
           | It was based on faceting because that's all the computers at
           | the time could handle.
           | 
           | It's like saying that 3d graphics lighting can only be done
           | by rasterized rendering. Of course, now that we have enough
           | GPU processing power, we can also use ray tracing.
           | 
           | In time, all light calculations/shadow calculations will be
           | done with ray tracing, but for now, that's unimaginable
           | because ray tracing runs slowly on current hardware.
        
           | kataklasm wrote:
           | You've got cause and effect flipped. The method of faceting
           | or scattering from even, panelled surfaces is an effect of
           | the root cause, namely the computer's inability to compute
           | more complex radar profiles. You can read more about this in
           | Ben Rich's book 'Skunk Works', the story about his time as
           | the director of Lockheed Martin's Advanced Development
           | Projects, informally called Skunk Works. Great read!
        
             | HPsquared wrote:
             | A flat surface is less likely to reflect to the source.
             | Think of shining a flashlight at a polished metal object.
             | If the object is smoothly curved and convex, there will
             | always be some point on the surface at just the right angle
             | to reflect the light beam into your eyes.
             | 
             | On the other hand consider a flat mirror (at a long
             | distance) or a faceted object with a small number of facets
             | and sharp edges: it's unlikely that any of the facets is
             | correctly aligned to reflect the light to your eyes.
             | 
             | A shape with fewer angles ("low-poly") has a lower
             | probability of giving a visible reflection.
             | 
             | Modern stealth appears to work the same way: surfaces and
             | edges are aligned along a minimal number of angles to
             | reduce the effective number of "facets". See the shape of
             | the B-2 for example, the leading and trailing edges are at
             | the same angles.
        
             | perliouhs wrote:
             | > You've got cause and effect flipped.
             | 
             | That's simply not true.
             | 
             | Round surfaces scatter in all directions, flat surface
             | scatter only in 1 direction of your choosing. For low RCS
             | (Radar Cross Section) paneled surfaces are infinitely
             | better, regardless of computer simulation capabilities.
        
               | iancmceachern wrote:
               | Maybe better, but not infinity better. If it were
               | infinity better then the B2 wouldn't be stealth (it has
               | not a single flat panel)
        
               | SlickNixon wrote:
               | > It's simply not true
               | 
               | Of course it's true. Modern stealth aircraft have curves
               | a plenty. This is an extremely confident reply given
               | that's it's to somebody who's referencing the book by the
               | guy who built the thing.
        
         | dboshardy wrote:
         | Not quite. From the incredible _Skunk Works_ :
         | 
         |  _" Ufimtsev has shown us how to create computer software to
         | accurately calculate the radar cross section of a given
         | configuration, as long as it's in two dimensions," Denys told
         | me. "We can break down an airplane into thousands of flat
         | triangular shapes, add up their individual radar signatures,
         | and get a precise total of the radar cross section."
         | 
         | Why only two dimensions and why only flat plates? Simply
         | because, as Denys later noted, it was 1975 and computers
         | weren't yet sufficiently powerful in storage and memory
         | capacity to allow for three-dimensional designs, or rounded
         | shapes, which demanded enormous numbers of additional
         | calculations. The new gneeration of supercomputers, which can
         | compute a billion bits of information in a second is the reason
         | why the B-2 bomber, with it's rounded surfaces, was designed
         | entirely by computer computations.
         | 
         | Denys's idea was to compute the radar cross section of an
         | airplane by dividiing it into a series of flat triangles. Each
         | triangle had three separate points and required individual
         | calculations for each point by utilizing Ufimtsev's
         | calculations. The result was called "faceting"--creating a
         | three-dimensional airplane design out of a collection of flat
         | sheets or panels, similar to cutting a diamond into sharp-edged
         | slices._
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | ???
           | 
           | Yes quite?
           | 
           | Your text completely supports GP's statement.
        
           | throw__away7391 wrote:
           | Yeah...this is literally the exact excerpt I recently came
           | across.
        
       | ajxs wrote:
       | I loved this game! Looking back, I'm surprised that I had the
       | patience as an eight year old to master this game's control
       | scheme. This definitely applies to other contemporary so-called
       | 'sims', like Mechwarrior.
        
       | babbledabbler wrote:
       | I loved this game growing up. (F-19 I never got F-117A). Thanks
       | for bringing back memories.
        
       | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
       | This brings back memories of '90s flight sims, playing A-10 Cuba!
       | on a P133. The physics and sense of speed was very impressive for
       | its time.
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-10 23:03 UTC)