[HN Gopher] Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home sho...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Feeling uncomfortable when leaving phone at home shouldn't be
       normal
        
       Author : apson
       Score  : 186 points
       Date   : 2022-05-08 17:51 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
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       | dboreham wrote:
       | My solution to this problem (anxiety at potentially missing some
       | very important incoming message) is to wear a watch that has wide
       | area connectivity and syncs with the important message streams
       | (voice, signal, work slack, sms, email, not social media). The
       | watch has a good enough UX to receive and act upon messages, but
       | sufficiently crappy that you want to ignore it unless it's
       | indicating some hair-on-fire situation.
        
       | MrJohz wrote:
       | I'm unconvinced by this.
       | 
       | I keep all my "on the go" stuff (keys, money, water, some
       | important documents, etc) in a bag, and I almost always keep that
       | bag on me, wherever I go, even if I don't think I'm actually
       | going to need all that stuff. For example, if I go to a friend's
       | house, and we go for a walk, I don't really need that stuff, but
       | my instinct is to take the bag anyway. At this point, it's such
       | an ingrained habit that I feel uncomfortable going somewhere
       | without the bag (something my wife mocks me for occasionally).
       | 
       | Is that bad? I don't think so. It's a tactic that I've cultivated
       | because otherwise I know I'm going forget something that I need.
       | I might not need everything in that bag, but if I'm out of the
       | house, I'm probably going to need at least something in there.
       | And taking the stuff I don't need has also paid off when I end up
       | changing my plans or something.
       | 
       | For me, it's the same with my phone. My phone is my main point of
       | contact to my wife and family, it handles navigation and public
       | transport, it answers questions I have while out and about, and
       | it's also an entertainment system on the way. Not having it makes
       | my life worse and harder. As a result, it's another thing that I
       | always try and keep on me.
       | 
       | Obviously there are some situations where it makes sense for me
       | for leave my bag or my phone at home. But in those situations,
       | I'm going to feel slightly uncomfortable because it's
       | interrupting my routine, and that routine is there for very good
       | reason.
        
         | _uy6i wrote:
         | I think there is a difference between being thrown off by your
         | routine (I have the same feeling if I'm not carrying my wallet
         | or keys with me) and being "addicted" (for lack of a better
         | word) to your phone and going into withdrawal - the number of
         | situations I'm constantly in where people are incapable of
         | being "present" because they are on their phones is depressing
         | and astonishing
        
           | MrJohz wrote:
           | Sure, I guess it ultimately comes down to what specifically
           | the author finds uncomfortable about not having their phone.
           | But I think this narrative of addiction (and the implication
           | that people should be comfortable leaving possibly the most
           | powerful tool that have at their disposal at home) largely
           | feels like fear-mongering.
           | 
           | For example, you talk about people being incapable of being
           | present - this seems very far from my experience. I know a
           | couple of people who might check their phone obsessively, or
           | will get distracted looking something up, but generally most
           | people that I hang out with show no signs of difficulty
           | engaging with something - work, a game, a conversation - for
           | long periods of time. That's not to say that carrying around
           | a portable endorphin generator doesn't have its own risks and
           | complexities, but overall, this techno-nihilistic narrative
           | of addiction and incapability rings quite false to me.
        
         | antiterra wrote:
         | There's a whole subculture of people who put together 'Get Home
         | Bags' in case their car breaks down or some other unforeseen
         | event requires they hoof it. It's probably not a bad idea.
        
       | rootusrootus wrote:
       | My compromise is a smartwatch. I can use it to make emergency
       | calls if I need to, but the availability of easy stimulation is
       | considerably reduced compared to a smartphone.
        
       | vmception wrote:
       | my friend's phone died last year and he
       | 
       | 1) couldn't get inside anywhere to charge it because he didn't
       | have his covid vaccine card anywhere
       | 
       | 2) couldn't scan a menu to order at the outdoor cafe we found in
       | the mean time
       | 
       | it was amusing, it stopped being fun very quickly, but we figured
       | it out. these two scenarios are obviously not as relevant any
       | more
       | 
       | but its way beyond "addiction"
        
         | Areyouabot8 wrote:
         | Are people not terrified at the 50% chance the entire society
         | and environment we live in is being engineered to require us to
         | carry tracking and surveillance devices on us 24/7 for sinister
         | purposes down the road ?? I'd argue its even more than a 50%
         | chance after what happened with Australia and Canada recently
        
           | vmception wrote:
           | I would say mildly disappointed, personally.
        
       | steelframe wrote:
       | I've never put anything work-related on my personal devices[1].
       | If anyone sends me a Slack message or an email on Friday night, I
       | won't see it until Monday morning. If you need to reach me
       | outside of work hours, you can give me a phone call and talk to
       | me personally about what's so urgent that you feel the need to
       | impinge on my personal time.
       | 
       | [1] Well okay, except 2FA, because I couldn't make it through new
       | hire orientation without doing that. But now all the auth uses
       | security elements integrated into or attached to the laptop
       | itself, so maybe it's time to uninstall the work 2FA stuff.
        
       | procarch2019 wrote:
       | In my...not too old, but not young years I am finding that I will
       | quite often forget my phone at home. I find this to be of almost
       | no consequence. I still carry a "wallet", which is really just a
       | stack of few cards. I live in a city, so if I really needed some
       | info or had to make an emergency call I would just ask a neighbor
       | (most people in my neighborhood are super nice). Most
       | importantly, when I stop for a drink at a bar or I am at the
       | playground with the kids I am forced, and this is a good thing,
       | to not be checking social media/news aggregators/email.
       | 
       | I don't think I could do without it during business hours because
       | of the nature of my work, but it's certainly fine for me to go
       | without off hours.
       | 
       | Side note, I recently had a bunch of cash on hand for some
       | reason. It is super convenient to grab a beer and just throw down
       | a bill instead of waiting for a check. Digital pay services are
       | great when splitting a check and are nsuper helpful when you are
       | out of cash, but remember that cash, almost always*, works.
        
       | webmaven wrote:
       | I held off getting a smartphone until 2011. But I certainly
       | experienced this sort of discomfort without my dumb phone and
       | various other bits of paraphernalia like a bus route map, bus
       | schedules, a Thomas Guide map book (or AAA map once I moved to
       | NM), lists of emergency and nonemergency contacts, medical info,
       | todo and shopping lists, and probably a few things I'm
       | forgetting. Most of this has been subsumed by the smartphone, in
       | a smaller, more convenient package with better ergonomics.
       | Battery life has improved to the point that I no longer bother
       | with an external battery pack, unless there is overnight travel
       | involved.
       | 
       | I'm pretty draconian about controlling notifications, and try to
       | use the smartphone as a tool rather than a content consumption
       | device (an eink ebook reader has replaced my habitual paperback
       | book, both at home and on the go).
       | 
       | But _as_ a tool, an occasion for the smartphone 's absence is
       | definitely cause for discomfort. OTOH, there are physical tools I
       | don't bother to carry anymore (eg. a swiss army knife) that
       | haven't been replaced with anything.
        
       | benbristow wrote:
       | I was on holiday once with my friends in Amsterdam. After a few
       | too many drinks and committing a sin and having a wee in the
       | canal (sorry! When a man's gotta go he's gotta go - as an aside
       | what's it with bars, clubs & fast food chains there etc. charging
       | to use the toilet?!) a guy came up to me and started talking to
       | me, can't really remember what he said to me, all I remember is
       | checking my pocket and my new OnePlus 3t phone had disappeared.
       | Karma I suppose.
       | 
       | We had another leg of the holiday in Finland (Helsinki) and then
       | back to Amsterdam again for another day before returning to the
       | UK. It was painful where all my friends had their phones and
       | could take pictures etc. and I couldn't.
       | 
       | I couldn't even borrow a friend's phone to check emails/Facebook
       | etc. as I'm security conscious and have 2FA enabled on all my
       | accounts, and use a password manager with generated passwords
       | also. My less technically inclined friends called me an idiot.
       | 
       | Thankfully when I got back to the UK I was able to get a
       | replacement SIM card the next day from the network provider's
       | store and I had an older Android phone to use for the time being
       | and was able to go through the Authy SMS recovery process to get
       | my 2FA codes back.
        
         | xen2xen1 wrote:
         | I've taken to trying to have a spare blank SIM and old phone
         | with me. The last time I activated a phone I was dumb and left
         | the old one at home on an hour trip. I went through all my
         | accounts and just barely got my stuff to activate on my new
         | phone without my old one. Also pointed out flaws in my 2fa
         | setup, but hey.
        
       | panaffa wrote:
       | I'm part of the new generation and I think the opposite. I am
       | obsessed with my phone and the Internet. And I don't think it's
       | bad. It's extremely stimulating in a way real life is orders of
       | magnitude worse at. Point of reference, born around 2000. There's
       | no going back for me. I want my phone at all times to have access
       | to billions of possible thoughts, pictures, memes. It's literally
       | a god like power.
        
         | stjohnswarts wrote:
         | Trust me, there are also plenty millennials, gen-x and boomers
         | hooked on the internet and their phones as well. Plenty.
        
         | thenerdhead wrote:
         | I said the same thing as someone who just turned 30 and was one
         | of the first generations born with the internet. Although I
         | don't mean to discourage your obsession with it, one of the
         | most beautiful things in the world you can do is learn to think
         | for yourself. Unplugging yourself from others opinions,
         | thoughts, and picking up a book or two can help you start that
         | journey.
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | I really desire the feeling that I'm disconnected from the
         | matrix for a little while.
         | 
         | Leaving my phone at home, and foregoing all my other digital
         | tools really makes me feel like it's just me and my immediate
         | surroundings I'm paying attention to.
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | What kind of god, though? What are you missing that only exists
         | in meat space?
         | 
         | When you get older you might grow bored of the virtual
         | stimulation trapped inside a screen.
        
           | alar44 wrote:
           | Literally all of human knowledge.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | mensetmanusman wrote:
             | And all human misinformation.
        
             | JADev62096 wrote:
             | Isn't it possible that someone has discovered something and
             | not uploaded it to the internet?
        
             | hombre_fatal wrote:
             | Sure, but it seems aspirational at best to say "I love
             | having my phone on me at all times because with it, I can
             | access all of human knowledge" while really using your
             | phone all day to procrastinate your goals, waste time on
             | TikTok, and never actually tap into that knowledge except
             | for the rare Wikipedia search.
             | 
             | Kind of a "...but I always can if I want to!" cope.
             | 
             | That said, I was similar to the thread OP in my early 20s
             | when it came to my computer time. I spent all day on the
             | computer which was totally cool because of all the things I
             | _could_ do on it, even though I was addicted to Warcraft or
             | Diablo or whatever. And it took 10 years to admit it and
             | find a healthier relationship with it.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | In this community we tend to overestimate just how much
             | knowledge is found on the internet because essentially
             | everything to do with _tech_ happens here. In the bigger
             | picture, even if you restrict yourself to only intellectual
             | knowledge, there are entire fields that are extremely
             | poorly documented on the internet. Either information isn
             | 't there at all, or the information that _is_ readily
             | accessible is plain wrong.
             | 
             | Further, if you consider human _experience_ to be part and
             | parcel with human knowledge, the internet starts to look
             | like a rather hollow shell. Just because you can _read_
             | huge portions of the body of human literature doesn 't mean
             | you're in a position to _understand_ what those authors
             | were saying, and the more you isolate yourself from the
             | physical world the more detached you 'll be from their
             | experiences.
             | 
             | This isn't to downplay how much knowledge there _is_ to be
             | found here. It 's just that to say that it has "literally
             | all" knowledge or conveys "literally god-like powers" is
             | over the top. I'd normally leave such hyperbole alone, but
             | in a thread that is glorifying smartphones as the savior of
             | mankind I feel it's important to point out that what we
             | have in a smartphone isn't all that it's being made out to
             | be.
        
               | hooande wrote:
               | if you gave someone the equivalent of wikipedia 1,000
               | years ago (and the ability to read and understand it),
               | they would seem to have god like knowledge.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | alar44 wrote:
         | I'm almost 40 and I agree.
         | 
         | Phones being addictive or whatever is being massively
         | overstated. Too many people projecting their own issues with
         | social media and lack of impulse control onto others.
         | 
         | If you can't handle it, figure it out. But I'm sick and tired
         | of people saying Facebook should be shut down or YouTube should
         | be nationalized. I don't hear anyone saying M&Ms or cookies
         | should be regulated.
         | 
         | To all of those who think cellphones r bad: You're an adult,
         | start acting like one.
        
           | sidpatil wrote:
           | > I don't hear anyone saying M&Ms or cookies should be
           | regulated.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_food#Anti-
           | junk_food_measu...
        
         | lmarcos wrote:
         | That's called addiction. Not as bad as other kind of
         | addictions, sure, but still.
        
         | dmd wrote:
         | Poe's Law at work.
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | I agree, I mean I was born quite a long time earlier but in my
         | career training I was taught to look for tools people can use
         | for restoring energy, comfort, courage, and maintaining contact
         | with long-term values via their interests.
         | 
         | This can also be especially important if you have other
         | sensitivities that can lead to unwanted outcomes, which can be
         | ameliorated more easily with a device nearby.
         | 
         | Also, IMO using "addiction" where "typically need to have this
         | with me for different reasons" would work just fine is pretty
         | inappropriate. The term projects quite a bit of subjective
         | negative & clinical interpretation onto others which is a
         | common ethical mistake, among other things.
        
         | lavoiems wrote:
         | It is an interesting perspective. My personal opinion is that
         | this constant stimulation is costing me focus when I need to do
         | work and ultimately hurts my capacity to do things. While the
         | internet and computing is a strong power, it does not yet
         | replaces our cognitive capabilities to solve problem and
         | interact with others. I hope it never will!
        
           | hooande wrote:
           | I don't blame my phone or the internet for this. Before smart
           | phones the joke was that people would procrastinate by
           | cleaning their room or organizing their desk. It's not about
           | the technology. When it's time to focus, focus.
        
             | travisporter wrote:
             | Yeah but now it's like organize millions of desks worth of
             | distraction
        
         | blitz_skull wrote:
         | There will always be diversity of opinion, which is a beautiful
         | thing. However, I reject the idea of it being a god-like power,
         | unless it's "unlimited cosmic power, itty-bitty living space"
         | power.
         | 
         | There's so much research already pointing towards our always-
         | stimulated culture being a provably bad thing.
         | 
         | I think obsession with anything runs a very thin line towards
         | being a bad thing.
        
         | exolymph wrote:
         | You won't give your own mind space to be creative or think
         | deeply if you're constantly getting microhits of novelty every
         | 30 seconds.
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | This is why you put it in silent mode and check every couple
           | hours. That has been my compromise on the issue.
        
         | 13of40 wrote:
         | I recall a time, many years ago, when you could be at a pub
         | with a couple of friends and some really obscure question like
         | whether it's a duck who has a corkscrew willie or a woodchuck,
         | and nobody would know the answer and there was no way to find
         | out, barring going down to the threadbare and underfunded local
         | library to look it up in the encyclopedia, which itself was
         | terse on facts and probably omitted ones like that for
         | morality's sake. Now I could just whip out the black mirror and
         | Google it.
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | And which conversation was more fun? Heh. I still laugh with
           | friends from college about the arguments we would get into
           | about crazy facts.
        
             | 13of40 wrote:
             | Yep, that's exactly the question. All of this stuff is
             | awesome when I'm trying to get a job done, but it peels a
             | lot of the magic away from the world.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | It is indeed unhealthy, and if you haven't experienced _not_
         | being away from technology for some defined period of time, you
         | won 't realize it.
         | 
         | Age: 33. I use the phone compulsively, like the person in the
         | article. I reach for it instinctively when standing still in
         | line, or waiting for anything, or while eating, etc. I have
         | done this increasingly in the past three years.
         | 
         | Two weeks ago I went to play trivia at a bar, hosted by a
         | friend. I left my phone at home intentionally. For the first
         | few minutes it was odd, just sitting there with a beer waiting
         | for the game to start. And in between, I would watch other
         | people, or doodle on my answer sheet, or just think about life.
         | 
         | Today, I went and got breakfast and coffee and read a book for
         | about an hour at the cafe. There was a place for people to put
         | sticky notes about how they're feeling - it made me think about
         | that, and make a submission. I read literature and history
         | around migration and people. I listened to the espresso
         | machine. I watched the homeless man sitting on the corner and
         | thought about it.
         | 
         | There is so _much_ for the mind to do, so many thoughts and
         | experiences to process in the downtime without a device. For
         | me, that often requires not just turning a phone on silent, but
         | leaving it in the car or at home entirely. And it is truly
         | freeing.
         | 
         | If you aren't joking about your opinion, as someone who has
         | lived in both columns, please do an experiment like the OP
         | article. Leave the phone at home for an hour or two a day, for
         | several days within a month. Maybe just a weekday evening after
         | work, or for a walk/drive/brunch one weekend.
         | 
         | The billions of thoughts and pictures and memes, if you are not
         | joking, is useless when you wake up after a decade of
         | accomplishing nothing of value to your own development or
         | happiness or meatspace[1] interaction with the world.
         | 
         | [1]https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/meats
         | ...
        
         | aeturnum wrote:
         | I generally agree, but I would put it a little more neutrally:
         | 
         | I've setup my life so that I expect the people I care about to
         | be able to reach me at any moment. It's something I desire. I
         | don't want them to hold back telling me something important (or
         | even something trivial). I've invested in the ability to be
         | present (even in a limited way) at nearly all times. It's an
         | enormous benefit to me and to the people I care about and I
         | feel very strongly it's a valid way to live.
         | 
         | At the same time, I experience no discomfort with choosing to
         | leave my phone at home. It's fine to have periods of focus on
         | the circumstances that physically surround you. The same
         | systems of contact I generally surround myself with make it
         | easy for me to arrange periods of isolation.
         | 
         | The problems comes up when I am forced (by circumstance or by
         | authority) to isolate myself in a way I don't consent to. That
         | does feel uncomfortable and it should feel uncomfortable - not
         | because humans should "naturally" live in some particular way -
         | but because I am being stopped from living in a way that I want
         | and causes no harm to any other being.
         | 
         | Edit: neutrally in the sense that I think this way of living
         | was introduced to me by the era in which I live, but I don't
         | think our era forces it on us. You can still live other ways,
         | but I don't think we need to fall back on circumstance to
         | justify it.
        
         | feanaro wrote:
         | Are you really being honest when you say you don't see this as
         | bad? I couldn't help but peer into your comment history and
         | notice you also talk about emptiness and loneliness. This, I
         | think, is the price to pay for constant access to billions of
         | possible thoughts, pictures and memes at all times.
         | 
         | Why is it that you think you need that?
        
         | svnpenn wrote:
         | That seems really unhealthy. By your own admission, you are
         | obsessed with it.
        
         | vecter wrote:
         | There is a cost to this, and that is your ability to do deep
         | thinking and deep work. You can't do that if you need a
         | dopamine spike every 30s. Boredom has value and letting your
         | mind wander is important for problem solving and the creative
         | process.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | You sound serious.
         | 
         | > have access to billions of ... memes
         | 
         | But this is where I think maybe I'm getting trolled.
        
           | ThalesX wrote:
           | I think the definition "an element of a culture or system of
           | behaviour passed from one individual to another by imitation
           | or other non-genetic means" can be taken, instead of "an
           | image, video, piece of text, etc., typically humorous in
           | nature, that is copied and spread rapidly by internet users,
           | often with slight variations".
        
           | travisporter wrote:
           | I think the younger generations may actually be able to pull
           | off sarcasm on the internet.
        
       | juanani wrote:
        
       | me_smith wrote:
       | I've gotten used to having my phone on silent and most
       | notifications turned off. I leave text and phone notifications on
       | so I can see them on the lock screen when I decide to look at the
       | phone.
       | 
       | For moments when I actually need to be aware of any
       | communications or be in sync with family and friends, I can turn
       | on the ringer or turn on specific notifications.
       | 
       | I think this has helped me get away from the constant distraction
       | but keeps the utility of the phone near. It annoys me when,
       | during conversations, people constantly check their phone and
       | smart watch every few minutes because of the buzz in their pocket
       | or their wrist.
       | 
       | I have also found going on weekend backpacking trips has weaned
       | me off of the phone and technology in general. I would recommend
       | it for those looking to take a break.
        
       | ericlewis wrote:
       | I'll read the article but I'll admit that my first reaction to
       | this was... do they know how folks use their phone? My phone is
       | my entire wallet now, in every way. Wether flying the country
       | (boarding passes, I have clear), or purchasing something (I
       | nearly exclusively use Apple Pay) I've long left behind needing
       | to carry a proper wallet. I do make sure to carry a couple of
       | $20s just in case there is some oddball reason my situation
       | wouldn't work. I also have no reason to carry an ID, but that's
       | also about to live in your phone.
       | 
       | Maybe the title just comment baited me though.
       | 
       | Edit: read it and this speaks more to the unhealthy obsession
       | with the perceived importance of instant communication. You
       | should delete or turn these apps off whenever you can. Turning
       | off notifications can also be empowering.
        
         | AdrianB1 wrote:
         | What country does not require you to carry an id at all times
         | where outside your house? Most countries do and most don't even
         | accept alternate id's like driver's license.
        
           | tomjen3 wrote:
           | The UK doesn't even have a national ID, The US would be at
           | war if that was the requirement and here in Denmark I can
           | have my drivers license as an app.
        
           | dagw wrote:
           | _What country does not require you to carry an id at all
           | times where outside your house?_
           | 
           | Sweden doesn't for one.
        
           | vollmond wrote:
           | The US has no requirement to carry your ID. I'm not sure
           | there's any base requirement to _have_ ID.
           | 
           | You only need your driver's license if you're driving, and ID
           | in general is only required for certain activities that
           | directly require identification or use the ID to confirm
           | other information (eg age when buying alcohol).
        
           | Chilko wrote:
           | New Zealand for one. You don't need to carry an ID at all
           | times, only if you're driving do you need your driver's
           | license. However, if you're detained by the police you are
           | required to identify yourself, but this does not need involve
           | your physical ID.
           | 
           | Is it really common in other countries that you legally need
           | your ID on you at all times?
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | In the US there is no such requirement. An ID is only needed
           | to buy restricted products/substances (alcohol, certain
           | medications, guns), to drive, to vote, or similar: cases
           | where you either need to prove who you are or prove how old
           | you are.
           | 
           | The Wikipedia article on the subject[0] is incomplete, but
           | the only countries whose laws it specifically describes
           | (Germany & Sweden) do _not_ require carrying the ID with you.
           | Rather than it being the norm to require ID, I 'm having a
           | very hard time finding out any countries that _do_ require
           | it.
           | 
           | [0]
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligation_of_identification
        
           | ericlewis wrote:
           | The United States I guess. If I were to be buying alcohol
           | it's reasonable for them to ask. But that's not something I
           | often do anymore and generally there isn't a reason anyone
           | would ask for my id otherwise. Perhaps if I'm in a different
           | state (I do still travel with a form of ID, but not on my
           | person) it could be important. My limited experience with
           | cops where I live have also indicated it isn't important.
           | 
           | I don't drive either which is a much bigger drive as to why I
           | don't feel the need to constantly have official
           | identification.
           | 
           | Edit: I suppose it is important if anything "went wrong" and
           | I needed my body to be identified, but again, that would be a
           | case where people are wondering where I'm at quite quickly
           | and the cops likely putting something out to identify such a
           | person.
           | 
           | Edit 2: I also did try to get a state ID but they make the
           | process so laughably difficult that getting a passport was
           | easier - further, they don't accept a passport as a main
           | source of identification. I instead needed to also have a
           | physical copy of my social security card (despite the other
           | mountain of evidence I brought about my existence and
           | propriety living in the state) and I never quite understood
           | that. They do gladly accept the taxes I pay though. No
           | questions asked!
        
           | tester756 wrote:
           | is it even enforced?
           | 
           | my country "requires" it, but I never have my id with me
           | unless I need it e.g going to gov office
        
             | ericlewis wrote:
             | I've heard tales in my state it is "required" but only ever
             | seen people slapped with that charge when the cops weren't
             | quite able to pin the original charges they'd pulled them
             | over for.
        
           | gatgeagent wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card.
           | .. Lots of countries don't even require citizens to own some
           | special id card.
           | 
           | In my case (Austria, EU), when the police is required to
           | check your identity, and if you aren't carrying some allowed
           | form of identification (id card [most people don't have one
           | around here, no one needs it but it costs as much as renewing
           | your passport], passport [who carries their passport around,
           | might even be expired], drivers license [you might not have
           | one]) they have to follow you home or wherever an recognized
           | identity document of yours may be (e.g. some people store
           | them at a safe deposit box at a bank).
        
       | dangus wrote:
       | I think it's fine to be uncomfortable without your phone. It's
       | understandable: they do so many useful things.
       | 
       | However, it turns out what this post is really about is work
       | communication, not about the functionality of phones that enhance
       | our lives.
       | 
       | When you're trying to get friends together, find a nice place to
       | eat, and get directions to meet up, having a phone is far better
       | than not having one. I wouldn't want to be without a phone during
       | a car crash or medical emergency, either.
       | 
       | In contrast, when it comes to your employer's demands on you, the
       | phone isn't so nice to have around, is it?
       | 
       | My suggestion is to set notification boundaries for work-based
       | communication and always be looking for opportunities to leave
       | employers that violate the boundaries in your life.
        
         | summm wrote:
         | Just have a separate work phone and leave _that_ at home. It 's
         | better for a lot of other reasons too regarding you controlling
         | your phone instead of your employer.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | > I think it's fine to be uncomfortable without your phone.
         | It's understandable: they do so many useful things.
         | 
         | The problem is that you can't take what's in your phone and
         | have it somewhere else: for example a web-browser in a public
         | space like a library or an internet cafe. If that were
         | possible, then it would be less of a problem to leave your
         | phone at home.
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | To everyone in this thread, wanting work and home separation.
           | 
           | If you're doing well in tech, then you have cash to enable
           | options. One is, a dual sim phone, and your work sim goes off
           | at 5pm.
           | 
           | The same goes for fetching work email. Off at 5pm.
           | 
           | Loads of apps to help with this.
           | 
           | Without dual sim, there are voip forwarders, a second phone,
           | loads of options.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | phendrenad2 wrote:
       | Yes, you should shun electricity too. If you need to communicate
       | with someone, just ride your horse over to them, or send them a
       | carrier pigeon. It's not hard.
        
       | Lapsa wrote:
       | wat? what ya talkin about?
        
       | dougmccune wrote:
       | I recently got my first Apple Watch with a cellular plan
       | specifically so I can leave my phone at home and still be
       | reachable via phone and text message. Mostly it's great. The
       | watch barely works well enough as a phone, I can play Spotify,
       | Apple Maps kind of works for directions (not nearly as well as
       | Google maps on the phone IMO), and that's basically all that's
       | usable, which is nice.
       | 
       | However, when dropping off my kid at school they require a Covid
       | screening app (phone only) that you have to show every morning. I
       | got half way to Whole Foods before turning back realizing I
       | needed my phone to scan the Amazon Prime code to get better
       | prices.
       | 
       | I expect more and more everyday activities will require
       | smartphones sadly.
        
       | dnndev wrote:
       | After reading the title to my wife she quickly said most likely a
       | man wrote this article, possibly an older gentleman.
       | 
       | As a female having a phone at all times makes her feel more
       | comfortable for emergency use.
        
         | xen2xen1 wrote:
         | My wife has, off and on for decades, called me and said she was
         | waking somewhere she didn't feel safe or was being watched and
         | wanted to be on the phone. All you said sounded familiar.
         | However, the "phone for safety" trope is a sad thing.
        
         | apson wrote:
         | I wrote the article. I am 19. Trust me I really love to do
         | things like these which have chances to promote a good
         | behavior. For the same reasons, I am off of Instagram for a
         | year now (believe it or not, I think this would be really
         | difficult for the current generation).
        
           | dnndev wrote:
           | Sounds like we got the gender right but I am the older
           | gentleman in this case.
           | 
           | I completely agree with you about social media doing more
           | harm than good. Keep up the good habits young man.
           | 
           | That said I also believe having a phone with you at all times
           | is a good thing for emergency use or crushing on the candies
        
             | apson wrote:
             | Yes, that's true as well. Thank you, sir!
        
       | Giorgi wrote:
       | It's all fun and games till you need to call ER real quick.
        
         | mwint wrote:
         | Carry a ye olden flip phone for this; they tend to work even
         | without a SIM for 911.
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | The phone is now an extension of the self. It's hard to just
       | leave it without becoming an anxious mess. The only way I was
       | able to break that addiction was when I bought a new Google Pixel
       | that had a battery defect that forced it to drain itself each
       | day. I got so used to the phone doing this that at a certain
       | point I just carried around a dead phone. After awhile enough, I
       | just left the phone at home.
       | 
       | Soon much of my life started to feel more full. I'd get lost in a
       | big city like Montreal and have to ask for directions in a
       | language I don't know. I'd lose touch with coworkers who wanted
       | to go out at night and I'd randomly stumble into them. So much
       | serendipity happens because I didn't have my phone. Although I
       | only have anecdotes of my experience, I think Nick Carr talks
       | about these challenges in depth with his book "The Shallows".
        
       | dale_glass wrote:
       | Personally I find modern technology to be very liberating.
       | 
       | When I was a child, even going around my own city was a stressful
       | thing. What if I get lost? What if I run out of money for the
       | train? How do I know I got the bus in the right direction? (the
       | darn things didn't announce stops at all).
       | 
       | The first times I traveled involved printing a stack of papers
       | including names, addresses, and maps. Getting to a hotel in a
       | country you've never been before and without having a good
       | command of the local language is stressful.
       | 
       | With modern tech? It's all a breeze. I can find a route to
       | anywhere, check if the place I'm going to is open, call for help
       | if needed, find a bar/restaurant/hotel if something unplanned
       | happens, talk to the people I'm going to meet, check on the
       | status of my flight...
       | 
       | Yeah, I don't feel very comfortable without my phone precisely
       | because it provides so much useful stuff that I don't have
       | otherwise. And no, it's not because I've grown addicted to it,
       | but because the discomfort that I already had before smartphones
       | were a thing returns.
        
         | s0rce wrote:
         | I moved to the SF Bay area and it was great being able to use
         | the GPS + map app to see where you are on the BART. Its
         | impossible to understand the announcements if they are even
         | made at all.
        
         | Disruptive_Dave wrote:
         | Some of what you described I believe to be very healthy
         | discomfort. The type that is needed for growth. The type that
         | can often lead to unexpected adventures. The type that you
         | become thankful for years down the road. "It's all a breeze" is
         | my biggest fear re: how society seems to be optimizing itself
         | right now. Truth be told, a breezy life doesn't feel that
         | interesting to me.
        
         | gambiting wrote:
         | I went to Canada on a work trip some years back, and there was
         | basically no way for me to get mobile internet in any way -
         | roaming would have been absurdly expensive, like several euro
         | per MB expensive, I couldn't get a local sim card that would
         | work with my phone(and even if I could all offers were weirdly
         | expensive and not worth it for just a week long visit) - and
         | yeah, I felt super uncomfortable travelling anywhere. It was
         | difficult finding places to go or even calling a taxi.
         | 
         | But then I went just before the pandemic hit and I managed to
         | get a card with like 2GB of data on it, and oh my god it
         | transformed the experience entirely, for the extact reasons you
         | said - it was just liberating. I could suddenly summon an uber,
         | find places to eat, look up opening times at nearest
         | attractions....my stay was about 100x more enjoable thanks to
         | that.
        
         | scandox wrote:
         | I traveled (as did many at the time) quite extensively in
         | countries around the world with minimal planning and/or
         | knowledge and no phone and it was absolutely fine.
         | 
         | Secure personal storage of documents and cash is the only must.
         | Politeness and respect for local people was also very helpful.
         | 
         | The big upside is that you have genuinely unexpected
         | experiences.
        
         | delusional wrote:
         | I want to just dive into a little bit of a tangent.
         | 
         | It's interesting to me that you're liberated by having access
         | to everything all the time. Personally I find it pretty
         | constraining. It makes me feel like there's nothing to
         | discover, no mystery, no journey. If I wanted to find the best
         | restaurant, I wouldn't have to go out and explore the local
         | options or discuss it with friends. The more efficient and
         | correct way would be to just search for it in the database.
         | There's no excuse for going someplace without knowing anything
         | about it, since all the information is so easily accessible.
         | 
         | While yes, google maps has allowed me to always know where I
         | am, it does so at the cost of defining a "correct" path to any
         | destination. Any deviation from the "correct" way is no longer
         | happenstance, but a deliberate inefficiency that demands
         | explanation.
        
           | dale_glass wrote:
           | Having information doesn't constrain you, it's your choice
           | what to do with it.
           | 
           | You don't have to follow the GPS' directions. You could just
           | use it to find which way to walk, then take whatever path you
           | want. You can get a list of restaurants and then ignore the
           | ratings.
        
           | rglullis wrote:
           | I agree. You are describing the concept of _flaneuring_ ,
           | which is something that is getting lost on this
           | hyperconnected culture.
           | 
           | My worry is that by removing all chance of variability in our
           | lives, _we_ become automatons.
        
           | philosopher1234 wrote:
           | You don't need an excuse to explore blindly. I agree that you
           | no longer have one, but I think that is simply a fact of the
           | modern world that requires adaptation. We have to be more
           | honest with ourselves about why we explore.
        
             | bigwavedave wrote:
             | Agreed 100%. Something I enjoyed doing a lot during the
             | height of the pandemic was getting in my car and simply
             | driving around, looking specifically for places I haven't
             | been before. I'd drive up and down mountain roads, through
             | small towns I'd passed through before but never paid
             | attention to, and then when I was eventually unavoidably
             | hopelessly lost, I'd pull out my phone and Waze my way back
             | home.
             | 
             | For me, having that power to find my way home no matter how
             | lost I'd get gave me the freedom to get out and explore.
        
         | throwntoday wrote:
         | Agreed. Years ago I decided to stop texting people as the
         | primary form of contact and instead call them. Now everyone I
         | know calls me cause they know I don't text. This cut down my
         | phone usage by a lot.
         | 
         | I also don't pull it out to pass time, instead I just try to
         | think about my schedule and sort out thoughts. I remember
         | reading someones comment on HN where they said it's ok to be
         | bored, that down time is the best for organizing things in your
         | head, and I've stuck to that ever since.
         | 
         | And although I hardly use my phone I still feel some anxiety
         | not having it when I leave the house.
        
           | Wistar wrote:
           | > And although I hardly use my phone I still feel some
           | anxiety not having it when I leave the house.
           | 
           | Edge case anxiety?
        
             | throwntoday wrote:
             | I feel the same anxiety if I don't have my wristwatch so
             | maybe it's more like the dread of missing something
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | Of things I used to need to carry, interface with, or reference
         | the iphone is: a gps/atlas, camera, camcorder, dictionary,
         | calculator, encyclopedia, checkbook, pager, e-mail terminal,
         | yellow pages, on and on, and a phone. It's easy to pretend that
         | it's just a doom-scrolling distraction but that's not true. To
         | give up all those other things would make life much more
         | difficult.
        
         | Baeocystin wrote:
         | Well said. It is disappointing to see such black and white
         | thinking in discussion of the role of technology in daily life.
         | 
         | Do I think there is a real problem with how social media brings
         | out the worst in society? Very much so. But that is almost
         | entirely orthogonal to how I use the (frankly amazing) pocket
         | supercomputer I now carry with me every day.
         | 
         | When I was a kid, mail back home when we lived overseas was a
         | three-month round trip. A 15-minute phone call on Christmas was
         | only possible by pulling a lot of strings. Nowadays? I can pull
         | up a half-dozen webcams in the same neighborhood from literally
         | across the globe.
         | 
         | We may be coming to grips as a world in how to talk to each
         | other effectively, but I don't miss being cut off.
         | Communication _matters_.
        
           | evocatus wrote:
           | Would you make the same argument for amphetamines? Wonder
           | what Erdos would have to say about this.
           | 
           | As far as communication goes, frankly, I regard large swaths
           | of the internet as hostile and cognitohazardous. I'd rather
           | be cut off. Though, fortunately the choice has already been
           | made for me - there is no escaping assimilation.
           | 
           | The psychological dependence is already taking root; the
           | societal dependence is next to come. Cash is dirty. There are
           | no taxis to hail on the road. You require a COVID app to gain
           | entry to this venue.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | abyssin wrote:
         | I agree with the feeling of liberation, but I've also known a
         | time when I had to navigate the world without a phone, and
         | there was a solution: ask for help. It was stressful to
         | interact with stranger, at least the initial contact, but also
         | very enjoyable to get advice and simply an answer to my
         | question. I never get a feeling of gratitude for my phone and I
         | miss it.
        
         | bparsons wrote:
         | That is because you were a child. Not because you didn't have a
         | phone.
        
           | RHSeeger wrote:
           | I don't think that's true at all. There's a lot of sources of
           | anxiety (while on the go) that having a phone with you
           | mitigates.
           | 
           | - If I miss my turn (gps will renavigate)
           | 
           | - If I can't find the place (I can call them and ask)
           | 
           | - If there's something else I need to get while I'm out (my
           | spouse can call me and tell me)
           | 
           | - My tween, who stayed at home while I ran to the store, has
           | a problem (she can call me)
           | 
           | These are all things (except for the last one) that I
           | experienced without a phone, as a grown adult. And I don't
           | really experience anymore because I have a cell phone on me.
        
             | _uy6i wrote:
             | How did humanity manage?! /s
             | 
             | Don't get me wrong, smartphones are great conveniences, I
             | can land in a foreign country and book a hotel, a car from
             | the airport, find a place for lunch, etc. all
             | (surreptitiously) while waiting at passport control. That
             | being said I making a plan with someone (and not flaking),
             | and doing a little research/looking at a map, asking
             | friends for recommendations, was never that hard)
        
               | dale_glass wrote:
               | Humanity also managed without computers for a very long
               | time.
               | 
               | But look at that, we're both here. Guess the tech must be
               | good for something, and it's better than not having it.
        
               | teekert wrote:
               | I remember this life well, I guess the trick is to use
               | only the time saving feature of the smart phone (the are
               | enormous), and skip the time sinks... They are equally
               | enormous :)
        
               | yibg wrote:
               | We also managed without telephones, airplanes,
               | automobiles and a bunch of other things we take for
               | granted in modern life. I still find them useful and want
               | them around.
        
             | whathappenedto wrote:
             | Not only that, but a phone solves the "where am I" problem,
             | which was such a pain when I was younger. Having to look
             | for the nearest street signs while driving around, barely
             | being able to read them and guessing its suffix, then
             | searching the map index for which coordinate that street is
             | in. Basically all problems solved by GPS. The directions
             | feature you pointed out is basically a whole other
             | application (replacing printing mapquest or written
             | directions).
        
           | teawrecks wrote:
           | Never traveled to a country where you didn't speak the
           | language, I'm guessing?
        
         | golergka wrote:
         | I had to leave my country a couple of months ago because of the
         | war. If not for the modern technology, I would become a poor
         | refugee, locked out of my money, without any income and social
         | connections and would be relying on finding benevolent
         | strangers.
         | 
         | But with it, I almost painfully transitioned to digital nomad
         | lifestyle. My remote job didn't suffer except for a single week
         | long absence, I have access to all of my savings, I'm in
         | contact with everybody I know, and I just go from living in
         | Hilton to the next airbnb.
         | 
         | Finding yourself in a new country where you don't know a single
         | soul used to be terrifying. Now I it's the most natural thing.
        
         | Grim-444 wrote:
         | I recently started intentionally leaving my phone behind
         | precisely to get those uncomfortable feelings back again,
         | albeit to some controlled degree. I enjoy having to problem
         | solve, I enjoy navigating novel situations, I enjoy feeling
         | real accomplishment after solving problems rather than just
         | having the answers given to me.
         | 
         | Of course there's other ways to get those feelings in life, but
         | I was in general just finding myself getting way too
         | comfortable in daily life. It felt abnormal, unnatural, in a
         | way. There's also the added benefit of not being able to
         | retreat into your phone for entertainment, it forces you to
         | engage with the world around you.
        
           | shkkmo wrote:
           | I find the value of a smart phone irreplacable, it allows me
           | to do all kinds of things and live all kinds of ways that
           | were impossible before.
           | 
           | Yet I also love leaving my smart phone at home, or in my
           | pocket, and trying to get lost and then get home.
        
         | whathappenedto wrote:
         | Not only that, but having a camera with you at all times is
         | fantastic. Besides the typical selfies with friends and random
         | shots, it's a way to capture some proof that you gave someone
         | money, or that your car was hit from the side. Then there's the
         | ability to take notes without worrying about losing a pen and
         | paper. Basically, it's a "digital recording device" that we've
         | taken for granted.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | It took me a while to internalize "Just take a picture." And
           | arguably it's still not an automatic reaction. Sure, most of
           | the time you don't need it but it's essentially free.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | This must be like when in threads about Uber, people describe
         | taxis as a traumatizing hellscape. When I was a child, I
         | figured out how my city was shaped, and figured out how to get
         | around. Knowing how to get around one's own city is a skill
         | worth learning, and is less of a time investment than fishing
         | around for a phone to spend minutes futzing around with for the
         | rest of your life.
         | 
         | > The first times I traveled involved printing a stack of
         | papers including names, addresses, and maps. Getting to a hotel
         | in a country you've never been before and without having a good
         | command of the local language is stressful.
         | 
         | Not a problem most people have often. For the pretty well-
         | traveled, maybe a few times a year.
        
           | helmholtz wrote:
           | There are some of us who will never learn 'how to get around'
           | one's city. We lack a head for sense of direction, for
           | memorising landmarks etc. We can try all our life, and we'll
           | only cope, but never be comfy.
           | 
           | Of course, if I'm just going to commute to the office and
           | come back, I could do it blindfolded, and those days it's
           | easy to be without the phone. It's _exactly_ when you 're
           | doing something unusual that the phone is so handy.
        
           | manicdee wrote:
           | Just because you don't have the problem doesn't mean you
           | should trivialise someone else's experience. How rude.
           | 
           | Try listening more, and hold back from telling people how to
           | solve problems they didn't ask for help solving.
        
             | Crabber wrote:
             | And yet you are trivialising the experience of the person
             | you are replying to.
             | 
             | How rude.
        
           | tsimionescu wrote:
           | > When I was a child, I figured out how my city was shaped,
           | and figured out how to get around.
           | 
           | You either live in a pretty small city, or an exceptionally
           | well-laid one. I have lived in the same city all my life, and
           | while I have a pretty good idea of where major points of
           | interest are, and can probably walk or drive home from
           | anywhere in the city, I definitely don't have any chance of
           | finding a random address someone gave me, or finding a
           | bus&tram route there.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | I like this perspective, and indeed, I recently had a physical
         | job interview and it went like this: I bike to the train
         | station, check when the next train will arrive and as I walk
         | into the station (phone knows where I am, I just enter where I
         | want to go), then prep for the interview on the train, Apple
         | pay for a sandwich at a transfer station, check email for exact
         | address, use navigation to walk to the final destination. I had
         | a Teams call with colleagues on the train even.
         | 
         | It's all doable without smartphone, but the prep time and the
         | notes and cash (or passes) I'd have to take...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | This pretty much nails it, though in my case I wasn't a child.
         | 
         | In my early 20s I lived in Japan for a few years. Early on,
         | before I had a phone of any type (let alone a smartphone), it
         | was incredibly stressful - even though I had studied the
         | language prior to arriving, it wasn't enough to handle more
         | than the most basic situations and trying to meet and
         | coordinate with others was a nightmare. If anything deviated
         | from the plan, including me getting lost somewhere along the
         | way, it all fell apart.
         | 
         | After having been there for a couple of months I got an iPhone
         | 3GS and it was transformative, even though things like map apps
         | were nowhere near as good as they are now (for example, all the
         | location names were still in Japanese even in the English
         | version of the app, and couldn't handle transit instructions).
         | With it I felt much more confident in going places and doing
         | things. Being able to text or be texted, "hey I'm going to be
         | late" or see where I am on a map instantly such a huge thing.
         | 
         | This effect isn't going to be strong in one's own country of
         | course, but it's still going to be there whenever visiting an
         | unfamiliar area.
        
         | jader201 wrote:
         | To put it another way, consider if you have a significant other
         | (where you share bank accounts, for example):
         | 
         | Are you uncomfortable without your phone even if they have
         | theirs?
         | 
         | I've been in this situation and it's not a problem at all. In
         | some situations, it may be an inconvenience, but I wouldn't
         | call it "uncomfortable".
         | 
         | But with my SO having her phone, we have all emergency
         | situations covered (directions, contacting others, money,
         | etc.), and that doesn't -- and _shouldn't_ -- bother me.
        
         | rglullis wrote:
         | Unless your day-to-day is so extraordinary that you don't have
         | any kind of routine, it seems that you are using the
         | exceptional cases to justify the rule?
        
           | dividedbyzero wrote:
           | Before working from home I had a routine that would be pretty
           | regular till end of workday, but evenings were often as not
           | totally spontaneous affairs, especially in summer. Without a
           | smartphone a lot of that wouldn't have happened since we
           | wouldn't realistically have planned those things in advance,
           | and I'd have been lost in parts of the city I don't know well
           | quite a few times, late at night and all. With my smartphone,
           | I can just rent a bike (can't do that here without an app)
           | and have the phone navigate me home. I'm old enough to
           | remember quite well how difficult and frustrating these
           | situations could get before smartphones.
           | 
           | I used to carry a real camera around (and I got tons of super
           | spontaneous shots out of it that I'm very fond of), now the
           | iPhone will do that too. It's become a bit like the small
           | pocket knife I always carry, a minimal one with just blade,
           | bottle/can opener, screwdriver, I feel naked without it
           | because it's been so very handy hundreds of times. Same with
           | my smartphone, I use it so much for things that would be a
           | hassle otherwise that not having it on me is a real
           | impediment.
        
         | saiya-jin wrote:
         | You describe basically google maps. It may surprise you, but
         | there are few million other apps for it, some more addictive,
         | some just functional, many creating this cozy sweet little trap
         | of comfort, security, instantness (for the lack of better
         | word).
         | 
         | What it gives to you, me, anybody, is 2-faced gift. The
         | positives are really nice, the negative is utter dependence ie
         | in way you describe. If somebody would blast all mobile
         | antennas in your city, you would be screwed, desperate,
         | possibly depressed. The term liberating may have different
         | meaning to different people.
         | 
         | I would be screwed too, but rather due to losing instant
         | contact with my closest family and instant way to manage my
         | property via airbnb/vrbo - this is the reason I started using
         | my phone on vacations. Before, I would just keep roaming turned
         | off, not log into wifis and spend 2 weeks (or 3 months) of
         | proper disconnect. Simple, wonderful, magical times they were.
        
       | gnuj3 wrote:
       | I dont mind leaving my phone as long as I'm with my kids. I cant
       | imagine something happening to them and I didnt know for x-amount
       | of time because I decided to leave my phone.
        
       | anotherevan wrote:
       | I sometimes wonder if better management of notifications would
       | improve people's lives.
       | 
       | I don't have any audible notification for email and a range of
       | other things. I'm pretty ruthless about turning off notifications
       | that come with some games and other apps that I just don't care
       | about.
       | 
       | > I realized how our phone has become a real integral part of our
       | bodies.
       | 
       | Counter-example. Having only just recently had the ability to do
       | payments with my phone, I now often go out without my wallet in
       | my pocket. The feeling of not having my wallet made me realise
       | how my wallet was an integral part of my body - so to speak.
        
       | detcader wrote:
       | This is what meditation is about, but replace "phones" with
       | "everything"!
        
         | bifftastic wrote:
         | Underrated comment
        
       | Terry_Roll wrote:
       | Haven't had a mobile phone in years as I value my privacy because
       | a number of online services exist which will geolocate any mobile
       | phone number from anywhere in the world and its a completely
       | legal form of stalking! Besides I noticed I get brain fog if I
       | use a mobile so I need to keep my wits about me as there is alot
       | of organised crime in the world especially those running
       | countries!
        
       | nonrandomstring wrote:
       | I don't think it's healthy or normal to feel uncomfortable
       | without a communications device. It's a sign of dependency. One
       | should be able to put it out of mind and focus on deep tasks,
       | leisure, interpersonal commitments and general real-life living
       | without a neurotic impulse to check and inhabit a digital world.
       | 
       | I don't have a smartphone (prefer a landline but keep an old
       | Nokia around too), so my life is more organised around emails and
       | desktop based communication. I recognised back in the 90s that it
       | used to take me hours to "decompress" from tech immersion. I
       | would ruminate on what messages I might be missing, and think
       | through communications in my mind in a quite obsessive way.
       | 
       | That was over 20 years ago. These days I'll go for a couple of
       | days without thinking about the internet. I can happily live
       | without a phone for a week or more no worries, and frequently do.
       | 
       | It's a long journey and there are constant pressures and
       | temptations to over-use again. I wrote a book about coping with
       | that.
       | 
       | It probably sounds as if I'm talking like a cognitive behavioural
       | therapist. That's because I truly believe that smartphone use is
       | fully congruent with addictive behaviours - not just for a few
       | people, as was common thinking a few years ago, but for
       | everybody, and as mounting scientific evidence supports there are
       | numerous genuine harms both individual and societal [1]. In 2022
       | I no longer feel alone or unusual in this regard, because I see
       | the world is waking up to it.
       | 
       | The question then is how we raise awareness of this emerging
       | threat to mental wellbeing, and how we deal with it. Mobile
       | technology certainly has its uses, but we must balance that with
       | social/technological structures that give people ample space to
       | control their own technology, make space and abstain from it as
       | desired. A truly advanced technological society would meet this
       | need. At present the gushing convergence on smartphones as
       | "necessary" panacea is pathological in the extreme, and I am
       | sure, simply fuelled by the profits of the tech industry rather
       | than any underlying "need". Technology is becoming _what is being
       | _done_ to us_.
       | 
       | [1] No I won't. Please have the good manners to Google for
       | yourself (or go back through my many well refernced posts here).
        
         | com2kid wrote:
         | That's nice and all, but when I travel overseas having a
         | universal translator with me is _super cool_.
         | 
         | Being able to order a safe reliable taxi in most major cities,
         | also super cool.
         | 
         | If you don't want email on your phone, don't set it up. But
         | having a map that redirects me around traffic accidents in real
         | time saves me a lot of time.
         | 
         | I'm not going to argue against smartphones being horrible
         | little dopamine boxes, because they are, but you can get a
         | smartphone and set it up as a purely utilitarian device rather
         | easily.
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | > purely utilitarian device
           | 
           | You're absolutely right kid. Sincerely. I look forward to the
           | day when the real utility shines through again. And I come
           | from a time (as a now well bearded computer nerd) when it was
           | all utility and coolness.
           | 
           | But we're in some weird in-between days [1] where motivations
           | have gotten distorted, ideals have got lost, and the utility
           | just isn't enough any more to stave of the wrongness.
           | 
           | FWIW I'm an optimist and beleieve we'll make it through and
           | take back tech, but right now we need to take a long look at
           | this.
           | 
           | [1] The fancy word is "interregnum" - a period "caught
           | between two times, one world that is already dead, and the
           | other waiting to be born."
        
             | sidpatil wrote:
             | I think this encapsulates your point:
             | https://pics.onsizzle.com/born-too-late-to-explore-the-
             | earth...
        
               | nonrandomstring wrote:
               | Yes , wre're in the gold^H^H^H^H nicotine-yellow stained
               | age of dankness :)
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | My phone is how my family reaches me in an emergency. How can I
       | help them if they can't reach me? It would be irresponsible to
       | leave home without it.
       | 
       | Internet on the phone is nice to have, but it's phone calls and
       | texts that need to work for me. (I prefer actual phone calls,
       | because that's what I grew up with)
        
       | CommanderData wrote:
       | Being forced to pay for council parking in the UK using a mobile
       | app is completely astonishing to me, and leaving home without
       | your mobile, or no data or a broken phone can cause you a world
       | of difficulties.
       | 
       | I didn't agree to wanting to normalise the removal of parking
       | meters and mandatory app usage just to park your car in a park or
       | highsteet. I'm not sure where this motivation started.
        
         | Telemakhos wrote:
         | If you have to have a phone to pay for things like parking or
         | for proof of vaccination status, then you have to carry a
         | locator beacon that can be tracked, and your movements can be
         | recorded. Who records them (Google, Apple, someone else) is
         | irrelevant; the record can be requisitioned by your government
         | or a Five Eyes partner at the touch of a few buttons. Your
         | locator beacon comes with handy built-in cameras and
         | microphones, and it probably has speech-to-text capability on
         | chip if you have a recent model. Also it's reading your mail
         | and texts and encrypted chats, and you browse the web on it, so
         | it potentially knows a lot about you. Good thing you can trust
         | it not to spy on you.
        
           | nijave wrote:
           | You can carry a phone and leave it turned off most of the
           | time. Unless you're paying only in cash, your electronic
           | payments can be traced anyway
        
             | StanislavPetrov wrote:
             | Turning off a spy-phone does nothing to prevent them from
             | tracking you. You need to either take the battery out
             | (impossible with most spy-phones) or use a faraday bag.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | Does Airplane Mode not do anything? AFAIK it could be a
               | violation of FCC regulations if it was still transmitting
               | or receiving with that enabled.
        
               | Izkata wrote:
               | Airplane mode is only a convenience switch. My phone lets
               | me turn wifi back on with airplane mode still active, for
               | example.
        
         | ectopod wrote:
         | Was there literally no alternative? Round these parts you can
         | pay in cash (with no change given). I've heard people complain
         | they were forced to use the app when they just didn't have any
         | cash.
         | 
         | (I have to be aware of the alternatives because I don't have a
         | smartphone. It's not been an insurmountable problem yet.)
        
           | CommanderData wrote:
           | No alternatives and here's the Councils announcement: https:/
           | /www.richmond.gov.uk/services/parking/parking_machine...
           | 
           | Some have extended to non-residential areas. One of the
           | biggest parking apps says this:
           | 
           | Q: "I have no network coverage and need to park?"
           | 
           | A: "Move quickly to an area with better network coverage and
           | complete your parking transaction with PayByPhone... Pay for
           | your parking via other methods such as PayPoint or via the
           | Pay & Display machine where available"
           | 
           | Reference: https://support.paybyphone.co.uk/hc/en-
           | gb/articles/360010478...
           | 
           | FYI 'Pay and Display' are the parking meters being removed,
           | 'PayPoint' might be in SOME convenience stores/shops. But if
           | you know London these can be 20-30 mins walk or none there
           | are all at your parking destination. Good luck attending an
           | appointment during work lunch times!
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | _uy6i wrote:
             | Lol - "move quickly"
             | 
             | Tangentially - I'm always astonished at the lack of self-
             | awareness of many municipal/utility service providers -
             | they pretend like I've sought out their service and WANT to
             | engage with them, when in fact I just want them to provide
             | me the thing I need (or am obligated to do) with as little
             | hassle as possible...
        
         | Adraghast wrote:
         | Similarly, I went out to dinner Friday and could not scan the
         | QR code to view the menu because I decided to leave my phone in
         | the car. I asked for a a physical menu and was told they
         | literally do not have them anymore. Had to hunch over my
         | friend's phone instead.
        
           | judge2020 wrote:
           | This is mostly regional in my experience in Atlanta: everyone
           | moved back to paper/laminated menus ASAP, as soon as any
           | concerns for covid on objects were alleviated. Only a few
           | businesses took it as an opportunity to save the manager the
           | workflow of needing to print out and prepare physical menus.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | In the US, you already need a phone to charge an EV (of course,
         | the EV has a cell modem anyway, and license plate tracking
         | cameras are becoming ubiquitous too...)
        
         | alar44 wrote:
         | It's way more efficient on a number of levels.
        
         | bobthepanda wrote:
         | at least individual spot meters were reduced to block meters so
         | that there was less physical infrastructure to maintain.
         | 
         | in my city part of the motivation is data collection; rates are
         | adjusted block by block based on the last quarter's occupancy
         | relative to targets, and among other things the app nudges
         | people towards slightly less optimal parking spots that are
         | either cheaper or more available.
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | This data collection doesn't require a smartphone to pay,
           | though.
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | How would you sell the result to marketers, or
             | warrantlessly track people after the fact without the app?
        
             | bobthepanda wrote:
             | you can put a QR code on a metal sheet nailed to a post and
             | call it a day. And at least where I live the app option is
             | also accompanied by an SMS number to text payments to.
             | 
             | An actual payment terminal requires electricity, a network
             | connection and maintenance. And it has to be rugged to deal
             | with the outdoors environment. If it takes cash, it also
             | needs to be fairly rugged to prevent people from making off
             | with the cash, and the cash receiving bits need a fair bit
             | of maintenance as well.
        
       | Vladimof wrote:
       | I've been doing this on purpose lately...
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | My phone screen was cracked, I had to leave it with the repair
       | place for an hour or two. It was glorious.
       | 
       | I leisurely strolled past shops, sat down to eat something
       | without being distracted, and generally enjoyed being outside. I
       | had to ask someone for the time.
       | 
       | I resolved to go without phones more often, as it made me feel
       | connected to me environment more, with less stress and reduced
       | absentmindedness.
       | 
       | Of course I never did and promptly returned to my 4+ hrs/day of
       | phone time. I am not ashamed to admit I feel somewhat
       | uncomfortable pooping without my phone.
        
         | 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
         | pooping with phone now. now and then i try pooping without it
         | just in the interest of time. and saving my legs from falling
         | asleep. not often though. bad habit.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | My advice: get a watch. A nice Seiko, Citizen, etc dumb watch.
         | 
         | I found myself always pulling my phone out to check the time,
         | then getting sucked in by notifications.
         | 
         | Now, I only use my watch to check the time, and find myself
         | pulling my phone out way, way less in public.
        
           | throwawayboise wrote:
           | I pretty much just know what time it is within about a
           | quarter-hour. I stopped wearing a watch when I realized that.
        
             | silisili wrote:
             | You know, outdoors or near a window I'm pretty good at
             | that. But I easily lose track of time when indoors, or at
             | night. Especially if for some reason I wake up hours
             | earlier than normal, I'll think it must be 12 or 1AM, only
             | to see that it's barely 10.
        
           | Izkata wrote:
           | Nah, let's go further and start a ring sundial fad:
           | https://www.amazon.com/Retroworks-Sundial-Ring-Silver-
           | Finish...
        
         | tester756 wrote:
         | I'll provide counter example
         | 
         | I didn't use smartphone till very late 2021
         | 
         | now I enjoy going for 1-2h walks waaay more cuz I can just
         | listen to music and disconnect myself from the people around
         | and focus on thinking about various stuff
         | 
         | Sure sitting at train and thinking about your life instead of
         | spamming on HN is likely a good thing, but sometimes it's just
         | awkward - depends who you sit with
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | I think it's interesting how everyone is addicted to their phones
       | nowadays. I'm a computer guy but I am 100% not addicted to my
       | phone, I really don't get the appeal. I do have an Android phone,
       | but I mainly use it as mp3-player/GPS/phone, it clearly beats
       | carrying / charging separate phone, mp3 player, gps device etc.
       | 
       | But aside from that I have always thought that smartphones
       | utterly suck, the awful OS and proprietary nature of the
       | hardware, also the core design is fundamentally flawed, using a
       | touchscreen for both input and display means the interface has no
       | texture or haptic feedback, and also your fingers are covering
       | the display. They are extremely awkward and slow to use. Theyre
       | not even a good shape to fit in a human hand for crying out loud!
       | So I just use my smartphone as much I would have used those
       | devices it has replaced. I just really dont want to use it any
       | more than necessary as it's so awful.
       | 
       | Smartphones are like those "leatherman" tools, I call them do-
       | everything-badly-devices. Its handy to carry a leatherman rather
       | than always carry seperate pliers/screwdrivers/knife etc. but you
       | _really_ dont want to be using it if a real tool is available.
        
       | noasaservice wrote:
       | The energy behind this line of complaint about cellphone/pocket
       | internet connected computers has the same feel as people loudly
       | proclaiming that they "do not watch TV" from the 2000's.
       | 
       | I'm going to chalk it up to neo-ludditeism without the actual
       | labor component that Ned Ludd was fighting against. (protip: he
       | too was antiwork)
        
       | shrimpx wrote:
       | The key concern with my phone is losing my 2FA access. I have
       | backup codes, but leaving my phone _and_ my backup codes at home
       | is not great, in case something happens to my home. In general I
       | try to maintain a sense of redundancy wrt my data and access.
        
       | ratsmack wrote:
       | It used to be that pay phones were everywhere, but because of the
       | plethora of cell phones, they have all been removed. So yes, it's
       | a little unnerving to forget my phone at home.
        
       | eyelidlessness wrote:
       | I feel uncomfortable leaving without my phone, for one simple
       | reason: I'm typically leaving with my pup, and if anything
       | happens to either of us I want to be able to call for help. Pay
       | phones are basically non-existent, people understandably don't
       | like to let strangers use their phone. It's just a basic
       | precaution.
        
         | beefee wrote:
         | The loss of pay phones over the last 20 years is a loss to
         | society. We used to have widespread access to cheap and
         | anonymous emergency calling.
        
           | throwawayboise wrote:
           | I lived to my mid-30s before I ever carried a mobile phone.
           | In that time I do not recall ever needing to call 911 on a
           | pay phone. How often has a mobile phone helped you in an
           | emergency? For me, never. I think this is one of those easy-
           | to-imagine-but-in-reality-rarely-happens justifications.
           | 
           | The local university here has these emergency call-for-help
           | stations all over campus. They have a blue light on top so
           | they are easy to find especially at night. A couple of years
           | ago there was a little feature story in the newspaper about
           | how they had never--not once--been used in a real emergency.
           | But the university did not want to take them down because
           | they provided a feeling of security.
        
             | sidpatil wrote:
             | > A couple of years ago there was a little feature story in
             | the newspaper about how they had never--not once--been used
             | in a real emergency. But the university did not want to
             | take them down because they provided a feeling of security.
             | 
             | How many real emergencies occurred near one of these boxes?
        
               | throwawayboise wrote:
               | Probably none, if they were never used. Again supporting
               | the idea that they are better at creating a feeling of
               | security than actually making any difference.
        
               | sidpatil wrote:
               | Maybe no emergencies occurred _because_ of the presence
               | of these emergency call stations. (At least those
               | perpetrated by other people, i.e. assaults, thefts, etc.
               | --I presume potential perpetrators would be discouraged
               | by the presence of these call stations.)
               | 
               | Creating a feeling of security is as important as
               | creating security--you need both.
        
           | mdoms wrote:
           | No one used pay phones for anything other than a public
           | toilet for half a decade. Good riddance.
        
         | Invictus0 wrote:
         | > people understandably don't like to let strangers use their
         | phone
         | 
         | Sounds like you're projecting here. What's your data for this?
        
           | eyelidlessness wrote:
           | Only anecdata, but I've experienced it directly, and I've
           | also helped other people out when I saw them experiencing the
           | same. I'm a little surprised by this response to be honest?
        
           | cercatrova wrote:
           | I've definitely had this problem. There were times I lost my
           | phone and had to get back home. No one would let me use their
           | phone. It was not until I begged a gas station attendant to
           | let me call someone I knew who could pick me up, that I was
           | able to get home.
        
         | axg11 wrote:
         | I have had this same thought in the past. I came to the
         | conclusions that it's a psychological trick we're playing on
         | ourselves. The mitigation against such a low risk event is not
         | worth the price we're paying.
         | 
         | - sent from my iPhone
        
           | apson wrote:
           | This is so true!
        
           | eyelidlessness wrote:
           | I mean, what price? It's just a little extra weight in my
           | pocket. I'm not _using it_ while I walk my pup. It's always
           | on silent and I seldom notice the occasional buzz.
           | 
           | - Sent from my iPhone, on my porch
        
       | k__ wrote:
       | We shouldn't call it phone.
       | 
       | Who uses it as a phone these days anyway?
       | 
       | For many people it's their life's central information nexus and
       | it's absolutely normal to get uncomfortable when leaving THAT at
       | home.
        
       | ipaddr wrote:
       | In this day and age of openly tracking everyone's movement by
       | government departments I'm surprised anyone brings there
       | cellphone with them when they travel.
       | 
       | Unless you accept creating a forever digital footprint of
       | everyplace you go leave your cellphone at home. We know better
       | but we pretend it doesn't matter because it's easier.
        
         | datadata wrote:
         | If you don't take your phone everyplace and leave it at home
         | often, you'll probably also end up in some list of suspicion
         | people at some point in the future. Absence of data together
         | with an identity is also a footprint.
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I wouldn't leave the house without my wallet and my phone is
       | vastly more useful and important than my wallet in most cases. I
       | would rightly feel uncomfortable without either and be glad that
       | I did! That way I'd notice and go back and get them (or decide
       | consciously I don't need them at the moment).
       | 
       | As for feeling "uncomfortable" without something on your body
       | that is almost always on your body, the same is true of an almost
       | endless list of items. Jewelry, clothes, lotion, facial hair,
       | piercings, makeup, keys, watch, wallet. I recall the feeling I'd
       | get when a car would vibrate just the right way and make me think
       | my pager was going off, years past when I had last owned a pager.
        
       | DantesKite wrote:
       | If I left the greatest tool civilization has ever developed at
       | home, I would feel very uncomfortable. I'm closer to a demi-god
       | than a man when I have one.
        
       | Salgat wrote:
       | It's for emergencies too. I've had to call 911 before. I also
       | want to immediately know if my wife or kids are in trouble. This
       | is not unreasonable.
        
       | croes wrote:
       | Why are they still called phones?
       | 
       | I think the phone function is one of the lesser used ones. More
       | appropriate would be Smartcamera, if you don't want to call it a
       | computer
        
         | AdrianB1 wrote:
         | I use my phone as a mobile phone 90% of the time when I am away
         | from home. The other 10% is tracking my cycling with Strava, I
         | can easily live without that.
        
         | BolexNOLA wrote:
         | My theory has been because they are still largely used as a
         | communication device, which was the primary function of a
         | phone. Text messaging/messaging apps in general are a core
         | feature literally 100% of users need.
         | 
         | Also because these devices started as phones of course.
        
         | antiterra wrote:
         | I think phones calls still serve as infrastructure of last
         | resort. It's main downside is also it's benefit, the pressure
         | for immediate interactive response and attention.
         | 
         | It's preferred to call a restaurant to see if they have the
         | wallet or card you lost. Your flight got canceled? Best call to
         | get the quickest list of other flight options. Typing while
         | driving is right out, but calling is not, even if a voice call
         | is arguably still distracting.
        
       | betwixthewires wrote:
       | I disagree with the premise. I understand people wanting to break
       | bad habits with their phone, but it's like saying "feeling
       | anxiety about not having a refrigerator at home shouldn't be
       | normal." When a tool gets invented that makes our lives easier,
       | what we didn't know we needed before becomes indispensable. These
       | things, problems though they may bring, are extremely empowering,
       | and we take it for granted.
        
       | jamal-kumar wrote:
       | I went without a phone or social media for like half a year and
       | people legitimately thought I died or something
       | 
       | Haha
        
       | Bud wrote:
       | I agree; this is not normal at all! After all, that's why Apple
       | Watch was invented! ;)
        
       | oliwarner wrote:
       | But it's not just my phone, it's a hotline to all my friends, my
       | camera, my main payment method, my map, my schedule, my parking
       | apps, an answer to any question I could possibly think of, and
       | twenty kinds of entertainment within a couple of taps.
       | 
       | It's not the 90s anymore. Rightly or wrongly, we've integrated
       | with these devices. Leaving it behind is like leaving a lobe at
       | home.
       | 
       | Staying on top of your notifications in your downtime is a job,
       | but it's possible.
        
       | sysadm1n wrote:
       | Well not that I live in a bad neighborhood or anything like that,
       | but you really don't know _what_ could happen at any given
       | moment, and need to phone emergency services. This is not
       | paranoia (well maybe it is), but paranoia doesn 't work
       | retroactively, you have to be proactively paranoid.
       | 
       | If you're concerned about privacy buy one of those cheap Nokia
       | dumbphones that old people use. Keep your smartphone at home, and
       | swap out the SIM from the dumbphone to your smartphone if your
       | threat model requires you to.
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | I'm not really blaming you here, this attidue is very normal
         | these days, but a mere 25 years ago, most people had no cell
         | phone, no mobile phone, and never, ever suffered mishap as a
         | result.
         | 
         | (Inconvenience is not what I call a mishap)
         | 
         | I grew up in the country, and a few times had to walk 20 miles
         | home, due to a dead car. Being a rural area, after 10pm, I
         | might see 1 or 2 cars the entire walk home (4 hours and a bit).
         | 
         | During the day, there were times my car broke down, or I ran
         | out of gas, so knocking on doors (a mile or so usually awake)
         | was a better choice.
         | 
         | Often, a kind person would have some gas.
         | 
         | Compare this to ... the city. If you can yell loudly, literally
         | thousands of people can hear you.
        
           | cnelsenmilt wrote:
           | 25 years ago there was a pay phone in every gas station, and
           | in denser areas in every corner market, bus terminal, grocery
           | store, hotel, ..., not mentioning those installed directly
           | along the street.
        
             | Apocryphon wrote:
             | People also didn't live under the expectation of being
             | reachable 24/7.
             | 
             | Similarly, people used paper maps while driving which were
             | cumbersome, but didn't live under the expectation or the
             | opportunity of traveling to new locations regularly.
        
               | alar44 wrote:
               | Stop. Projecting.
               | 
               | I don't know anyone who expects me to be available 24/7.
               | 
               | Most people I know text don't text back immediately
               | either.
               | 
               | It's a you problem, not a societal one.
               | 
               | Set some fucking boundaries and start acting like an
               | adult.
        
               | status200 wrote:
               | Dude, go touch grass. Being a jerk on YC does not make
               | you look cool, smart, or savvy.
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | You are the one projecting here. I don't feel like I'm
               | personally under those expectations, but I definitely see
               | that in other people's lives. Try to use less
               | inflammatory language on this forum.
        
               | bbarnett wrote:
               | I find it nicer to look at a huge map, when visiting a
               | city.
               | 
               | Maybe a 100" TV would be about the same.
               | 
               | But sadly, it is harder to get paper maps now, for
               | obvious reasons.
        
               | Apocryphon wrote:
               | By traveling to new places, I even just mean that Yelp
               | and Google, coupled with GPS navigation, allow people to
               | more regularly patronize new businesses in the localities
               | they reside in. So it's much more frequent to be driving
               | to somewhere unfamiliar.
        
             | robonerd wrote:
             | Now instead of pay phones in gas stations, if you have an
             | emergency virtually every other person you might meet can
             | call 911 for you on the spot, without having to run off to
             | find a pay phone.
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | In the city, yes.
             | 
             | But my point was, there are _other people_ around. Yell,
             | bang on a house 's door, go into the gas station, etc etc.
        
           | SnowHill9902 wrote:
           | Nobody is unhappy for not having what he doesn't know that he
           | can have.
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | Yes I don't not disagree also, not with this.
        
               | SnowHill9902 wrote:
               | Try to reformulate the phrase avoiding negatives. It
               | doesn't mean the same.
        
               | bbarnett wrote:
               | I was poking at the comment I replied to.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | No no, life is much better with FOMO. Keeping up with the
             | Jones used to be a local thing. Now its global, and that's
             | so much better. /s
        
           | Sebb767 wrote:
           | 25 years ago, the cars also didn't have much crash safety
           | compared to today and they did survive without seatbelts and
           | airbags in metal cages without crumple zones, too!*
           | 
           | Hell, 80 years ago planes took off without any electronics
           | and with high explosives on board, were shot at and even
           | returned!*
           | 
           | * except for those who did not
           | 
           | Sure, most people didn't die because of lacking safety nets.
           | But some did and I don't think "it worked for most without"
           | is a sufficient argument to ditch them.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | com2kid wrote:
           | Survivorship bias, it is totally a thing!
           | 
           | There are mountain tops that have cell service now days
           | (great line of sight!). People get lost in the woods pretty
           | often.
           | 
           | Heck just having a compass + map that works offline can get
           | people unstuck. How many lost person stories used to end with
           | "and he died just a few miles from the nearest town"?
           | 
           | Of course that sentence is now relegated to history because
           | because almost everyone has a GPS in their pocket!
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > the city. If you can yell loudly, literally thousands of
           | people can hear you.
           | 
           | and roughly 1/3 of them will yell at you to shut up, half of
           | the remaining will just silently wish it, with the remaining
           | not noticing
        
           | fao_ wrote:
           | > most people had no cell phone, no mobile phone, and never,
           | ever suffered mishap as a result.
           | 
           |  _never???_
           | 
           | How do you _possibly_ have enough information to know that?!
        
           | xoa wrote:
           | > _but a mere 25 years ago, most people had no cell phone, no
           | mobile phone, and never, ever suffered mishap as a result._
           | 
           | But that just isn't true. Being able to use a mobile radio to
           | summon emergency services earlier has statistically
           | significant association with improved outcomes [0]. It isn't
           | just about what happens to you, it's about what you can do
           | for others you come across in emergencies. 25 years ago, I'd
           | need to drive a minimum of 15-30 minutes to the nearest house
           | and hope I was able to use their landline (or break in I
           | guess?), or maybe there would be an open service station
           | within that distance (often not). People died (still do) or
           | suffer serious injury getting lost in the woods very close to
           | home. _I_ nearly did once in the 90s, cross country skiing
           | and being foolish. I went out in the afternoon on a gray,
           | gray overcast day, zero shadows, fresh snow, and as a skier
           | since a child I felt overly confident and didn 't take a
           | normal fanny pack even with light (back then of course lamps
           | were a lot crappier pre-LED), water or whatever. It got dark
           | fast, by this point about 15degF, and I got completely,
           | utterly confused. I knew I should be close and indeed
           | reconstructing afterwards (finding my own tracks later in the
           | week) I was within 1/2 mile or so. But it was a half mile
           | through old forest without that clear trails. Fortunately I
           | had had some outdoor training and recognized this was genuine
           | trouble, I didn't try to go back in the woods but crossed a
           | frozen swamp and broke for a farm field, and then from there
           | to an actual house whose light I could see and use as a guide
           | about a mile and a half away. Even if no one was home there'd
           | at least be a road I could follow, fortunately there was
           | someone and I could beg to use their landline and call a
           | friend. But there were directions of travel I could have gone
           | there with no one, and no road, for 6+ miles of mountainy
           | forest. And if one succumbs to panic, it's easy to end up
           | spending hours going in circles, or even without because
           | sense of direction is hard with zero markers, no stars or the
           | like. Or are fine, but fall and break a leg or something.
           | This happens. People die. I and friends worked as First
           | Responders and later mountain rescue volunteers of various
           | levels. It's all well and good to say "well you should never
           | do that" but humans are imperfect, even experienced ones.
           | Having access to quite accurate near term weather forecasts
           | alone is just massive, a boon a lot of us don't stop to
           | appreciate.
           | 
           | Obviously, as tools cell phones have other risks. It's
           | possible to get overconfident with them and take risks that
           | negate the benefits. People have died due to silly things
           | like literally stepping backwards over a cliff trying to get
           | the perfect selfie. And there are other negative effects as
           | this article talks about. Nevertheless, it's wrong to claim
           | everything was fine back in "the good old days" when life
           | expectancy was significantly lower [1]. You don't have to
           | have a fancy smart phone to have a basic comms, GPS and map,
           | but that doesn't negate how valuable those can be.
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | 0: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22142669/
           | 
           | 1: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-
           | states/life...
        
             | bbarnett wrote:
             | "most people", was in my comment. Many of your examples are
             | non-common, special, too.
             | 
             | For example, this thread is about someone in the city,
             | taking a walk (eg, to the corner store or some such), and
             | not feeling safe.
             | 
             | It's all about stats, likelyhood, etc.
        
         | JohnWhigham wrote:
         | What do you imagine people 30 years ago did, during a time when
         | crime was a lot worse?
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | A lot of them died, or suffered some horrible attack,
           | unnecessarily. I don't understand what the argument is here.
           | We survived without antibiotics, but I sure wouldn't like to
           | have been seriously ill in a time without them.
        
         | akira2501 wrote:
         | It's a radio I can use to summon help. Why would I _ever_ want
         | to be without that?
         | 
         | Turn the notifications off, or get something like Tasker that
         | can turn them off and on for you on a schedule. Otherwise, keep
         | it in your pocket. This device has no control over you that you
         | don't allow it to have.
        
           | beefield wrote:
           | > It's a radio I can use to summon help. Why would I _ever_
           | want to be without that?
           | 
           | I think it's good for you to occasionally to _know_ that you
           | are on your own. Completely responsible on what you do. Be it
           | on the nearby forest or in some more extreme situation. I am
           | not sure the direction of (illusion of) ultrasafety where our
           | society has been going is all good. Occasionally it 's good
           | to have the red pill instead of the blue. Keeps your mind
           | clear.
        
         | aiisjustanif wrote:
         | > but you really don't know what could happen at any given
         | moment, and need to phone emergency services. This is not
         | paranoia (well maybe it is), but paranoia doesn't work
         | retroactively, you have to be proactively paranoid.
         | 
         | It would be nice to not live that way sometimes you know? There
         | are places where people aren't conditioned to feel that way.
        
           | karencarits wrote:
           | You could read his post as him living with constant threats
           | of victimization (this is how I read your comment) but it
           | applies equally well to medical emergencies. I happened to be
           | in such a situation once and it was stressful enough with
           | medical guidance on the phone and assurances that the
           | ambulance was on its way
           | 
           | I will not risk to have to face such a situation alone or
           | have to leave a person in distress just to call for help
        
           | hooande wrote:
           | I always bring my phone in case I'm in a traffic accident and
           | need to call someone to pick me up or let them know I'm going
           | to the hospital
        
           | evilduck wrote:
           | You make it sound sinister like you're expecting to be
           | mugged, but I've called 911 on behalf of others by being the
           | first to come across their roadside accident 2 different
           | times in my life, and the first one wouldn't have been able
           | to call themselves due to injuries. Not having a phone would
           | have meant leaving the scenes, driving to the next exit and
           | finding a gas station or house, explaining there was an
           | accident and pleading to use the phone, drawing out their
           | time sitting injured on the roadside by several minutes
           | before emergency services were even notified.
           | 
           | I've also been the first to report tree limbs blocking roads
           | and a water main that burst to non-emergency lines, again
           | expediting services to fix them and reducing inconvenience
           | overall.
           | 
           | I've never felt like this was some conditioning of paranoia,
           | only that I was enabled to help in ways that I wasn't able to
           | 20 years ago.
        
           | id wrote:
           | You know, medical emergencies are a thing. You could always
           | come across someone that needs help.
        
             | varjag wrote:
             | Freak attacks are a thing too. Dumb to go out without
             | concealed gun.
        
               | seattle_spring wrote:
               | That's about as relevant as claiming you should carry
               | rattlesnake antivenom because you might come across
               | someone recently bit.
        
         | quantified wrote:
         | Pre-phones, it just wasn't something you thought about. If you
         | came up with a phone, you just may not be able to get it.
        
           | mlyle wrote:
           | Pre-phones, you had functional payphones, etc, around to
           | summon help with. People were more likely to be understanding
           | and to make a call for you if you knocked on their door.
           | 
           | I had to hike to a payphone a couple of times when I was
           | stranded. That wouldn't work anymore.
           | 
           | To reach the level of security that I had as a teenager, I
           | need a mobile phone.
        
         | daniel-cussen wrote:
         | There's places where a phone won't help you at all. On the
         | other hand, just screaming will. Screaming, like not yelling,
         | screaming. Helped me out exactly three weeks ago today, when I
         | was getting coercively shepherded by supermarket guards, into
         | the supermarket, because the cashier accused me of not paying.
         | But they weren't interested in seeing my receipt. Just in
         | harassing me. Fortunately Jessica at the Farmacias Manriquez
         | (near Merced and Jose Miguel de la Barra in downtown Santiago)
         | across the street heard me scream "I want you to call the real
         | cops! You have no right to do this! Look at my receipt!" (in
         | Spanish of course) and called my people, whom I couldn't reach
         | because I left my phone at home. And they showed up, asked what
         | the fuck, and I talked to the lawyer extensively about it, he
         | agreed it was harassment and coercive threats.
         | 
         | Who knew, screaming calls attention? And I couldn't use a phone
         | because my hands were full, I was carrying glass bottles home
         | that way because I didn't want to pay for a plastic bag. If I
         | dropped them, they would say since they accused me of stealing
         | them that I destroyed the merchandise and was a thief for sure.
         | And then taken me to the ground and beat me up, that's their
         | job basically.
         | 
         | Thanks Jessica of Farmacias Manriquez!
         | 
         | So phones? Not always a big help.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | This story is baffling.
           | 
           | > Fortunately Jessica at the Farmacias Manriquez (near Merced
           | and Jose Miguel de la Barra in downtown Santiago) across the
           | street heard me scream "I want you to call the real cops! You
           | have no right to do this! Look at my receipt!" (in Spanish of
           | course) and called my people
           | 
           | Maybe social circles in south america are orders of magnitude
           | bigger than the ones I have, but in an urban area it seems
           | unlikely that there's going to be a random passer by that
           | would know you well enough that they can "call your people"
           | 
           | > And I couldn't use a phone because my hands were full, I
           | was carrying glass bottles home that way because I didn't
           | want to pay for a plastic bag. If I dropped them, they would
           | say since they accused me of stealing them that I destroyed
           | the merchandise and was a thief for sure.
           | 
           | Why was slowly putting the bottles down and then getting out
           | your phone not an option?
        
           | daniel-cussen wrote:
           | So in reply to the posters who said I could still have used a
           | phone: I could not. I had an Apple iPhone of exactly the kind
           | covered in the class-action lawsuit, of which there was one
           | in Chile, and I was eligible for the payout, still am in
           | fact, it's like 170 dollars. But I haven't.
           | 
           | So I left that one at home, and in fact one of the people who
           | came grilled me over and over as we walked down Victoria
           | Subercaseaux "why didn't you bring your phone?" "WHY DIDN'T
           | YOU BRING YOUR PHONE?"
           | 
           | Well I told him I had a similar phone, just no radio, and was
           | connecting to the Walmart subsidiary's wifi with it,
           | explicitly ordering the guards for the password after the
           | cashier, CE NEWEN according to the receipt, made her
           | premeditated apology. But surprise, screaming worked. It
           | actually worked better! It was much better for someone else
           | to call on my behalf than for me to call myself. And
           | secondly, too predictable, they can tear the phone out of
           | your hands, these guards were in gang-up beating mode, so
           | they would not have tolerated a phone, the obvious choice.
           | Very impatient and there were six of them, apparently armed.
           | 
           | When I got home and received a call, the phone I was supposed
           | to take, its battery died. So battery would have died calling
           | people on my own behalf, when the battery dies unexpectedly,
           | the battery meter acts weird, it's not like getting locked
           | out, when it dies it's a brick, you can't call emergency
           | services.
           | 
           | I couldn't slowly put anything on the ground, these guards
           | were in Fuck the Law mode. Evidently, because they never had
           | any interest in my receipt, or my testimony. Six, 6 guards,
           | shepherding me coercively back to the Walmart subsidiary
           | where they controlled all the cameras and knew the terrain,
           | could make up any shit they wanted. And a lawyer that came,
           | called Nacho, told me exactly that, these guys don't like
           | calling police because they want that power for themselves.
           | 
           | The uniforms say SWAT on them, S-W-A-T, supposedly it's SWAT-
           | branded private security apparel, nothing to do with American
           | Special Weapons And Tactics like in the movies. Like Apple
           | computer having nothing to do with apples, just a brandname,
           | "nombre de fantasia", it's not like actual fruit. So they're
           | trying to intimidate people with the power of the law,
           | precisely so people don't dare defend themselves, to imply
           | their victim will get accused resisting arrest.
        
           | blindmute wrote:
        
           | Areyouabot8 wrote:
           | I think this guy is a bot. Is it possible this comment was
           | created using ML?
        
           | Adraghast wrote:
           | > And I couldn't use a phone because my hands were full
           | 
           | Sorry, but you could have used a phone.
        
           | cercatrova wrote:
           | > _So phones? Not always a big help._
           | 
           | I don't understand how you came to this conclusion when you
           | simultaneously say
           | 
           | > _[Jessica] called my people, whom I couldn 't reach because
           | I left my phone at home_
           | 
           | If you had a phone, you could've just...called them yourself.
        
             | loloquwowndueo wrote:
             | Except no because the whole hands full and bottles thing.
             | Did you even bother reading the comment?
        
               | cercatrova wrote:
               | Yes but I disagree that they'd have broken the bottles
               | had they put down a bag. I've had bottles in bags and not
               | once did I break them by setting them down. They could've
               | easily put the bottles down and called the police on
               | their phone, if they brought it with them.
        
               | daniel-cussen wrote:
               | Great to see you again, cercatrova![1]
               | 
               | I didn't have a bag, that's what started it all. You
               | don't get bags anymore in Chile[2]. The cashier, CE.
               | NEWEN according to the receipt, accused me of not paying
               | apparently in retaliation for my saying the plastic bag
               | she offered was not worth the 57 cents the Walmart
               | subsidiary charged for it (490 Chilean pesos)[1]. I
               | decided to go without. Until her accusation that I didn't
               | pay, I was carrying everything carefully in my arms.
               | 
               | So I was carrying two pint-sized cans of beer, a glass
               | jar of olives, and a glass jar of anchovies all in my
               | arms. Needed a surface if I was to set them down, in fact
               | after being shepherded I set them down in an empty
               | shopping cart before I could take out the receipt in my
               | pocket, so my turn to make demands began.
               | 
               | [1] So this was the event that changed my attitude and
               | just divulge on Hacker News.
               | 
               | [2] It's always minimal shit, one time it was over 1 cent
               | in electricity, for which I offered to pay a dollar on
               | the spot. Always minimal shit. Those plastic bags cost
               | like 1.3 cents apiece, to make. Pure profit.
               | 
               | [3] And since this, I bring my own, which was the
               | government's idea in not supplying bags any longer.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | TacticalCoder wrote:
       | > But as time passed, I realized how our phone has become a real
       | integral part of our bodies. It was a strange feeling.
       | 
       | I'm hardly a luddite and yet I don't give a crap about my phone.
       | 
       | I hardly ever take my phone with me: no need. Yesterday I had to
       | drive to some unknown (to me) place (rural area) for a birthday
       | party: wrote the address down, looked what the place looked like
       | on google maps, then left the home and input the address in my
       | car's navi system.
       | 
       | My phone is so old I don't even know which model it is. I think
       | it's a Samsung S7, not sure. Don't care.
       | 
       | I have like two apps on it: google authenticator and some "scan
       | to pdf" thing (where I take a picture of documents and it makes a
       | PDF out of it).
       | 
       | To me a phone is an inferior, mediocre, computing device. It's
       | only a "computer" in that it's more powerful than, say, a SGI
       | workstation from the late 90s (or whatever) but it's mostly a
       | piece of crap made to _consume_ content.
       | 
       | I'm always wondering this: how many chip engineers are actually
       | designing chips from their smartphone? How many car designers are
       | modelling cars and parts on their phone? How many sound engineers
       | are, say, remastering some great song from their phone? How many
       | people who worked on, say, "Fantastic Beasts" did model the 3D
       | animals from their phone? It's not just the input that sucks, but
       | the output too: tiny screen, shitty sound.
       | 
       | In addition to being complete turds, phones are little
       | surveillance devices tracking your every moves. Just screw that.
       | 
       | Now, funnily enough, the only time I really need a phone the
       | dumbphone, pre- Nokia Symbian and J2ME apps (these were still
       | dumb but a bit less dumb), I had in the late nineties would do:
       | actual phone calls and SMS. I hardly need anything more.
       | 
       | I don't respect my phone: I treat it for the utter piece of junk
       | and crap it is.
       | 
       | I think it's a sane approach. YMMV.
        
       | Trasmatta wrote:
       | I wish I could leave mine at home more often, but I need it on me
       | pretty much all the time for my diabetes management.
        
         | jfk13 wrote:
         | How did diabetics manage before smartphones?
        
           | Trasmatta wrote:
           | Less effectively.
        
       | _benj wrote:
       | I liked that reflection. I'm lucky enough that my manager is very
       | intentional in actively avoiding and mitigating any possible work
       | related anything during the weekends.
       | 
       | When I get a call (as opposed to a slack message) it's only
       | because something is REALLY on fire.
       | 
       | This really allows me to disconnect completely from work with the
       | assurance that in an extreme situation I could still be reached.
       | 
       | It's also important to clarify what is considered important
       | because honestly I get a call over the weekend to implement so
       | "quick feature", that would be a clear signal that it might be
       | time to part ways with such company culture.
       | 
       | All I'm saying is, it starts with the individual marking the
       | boundaries and then either talking the the manager or finding a
       | place that respects those boundaries.
       | 
       | (I'm aware of some violations of boundaries from bosses that if
       | they'd happen to me I'd likely seek for a restraining order!)
        
       | arkaic wrote:
       | It shouldn't be normal....unless we live in a world where the
       | feeling of our daily infrastructure of life is dependent upon
       | smartphones.
       | 
       | Which it is.
        
       | rschachte wrote:
       | I bought a lightphone. It's expensive and buggy, but it helped
       | kill my phone addiction. Dumb phone with music and maps.
        
         | 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
         | bugs are a feature to make you hate it even more
        
       | dsr_ wrote:
       | "Stories set in the Culture in which Things Went Wrong tended to
       | start with humans losing or forgetting or deliberately leaving
       | behind their terminal. It was a conventional opening, the
       | equivalent of straying off the path in the wild woods in one age,
       | or a car breaking down at night on a lonely road in another.
       | 
       | A terminal, in the shape of a ring, button, bracelet or pen or
       | whatever, was your link with everybody and everything else in the
       | Culture. Without a terminal, you were never more than a question
       | or a shout away from almost anything you wanted to know, or
       | almost any help you could possibly need."
       | 
       | --Iain M. Banks, in The Player of Games
        
         | RealityVoid wrote:
         | First thing I thought about as well. I really think The Culture
         | is very special in its ability to "feel" the future.
        
         | mostlysimilar wrote:
         | So I had a feeling "without a terminal" was a typo and I wanted
         | to look up the exact quote. I googled the sentence and expected
         | the right quote to be at the top, but all Google gave me was
         | results for helping people with terminal cancer cope with their
         | coming death.
         | 
         | It was only after I appended "Ian M Banks" that I got the
         | result I was looking for. I'm honestly surprised Google failed
         | that search so hard.
        
           | whimsicalism wrote:
           | ..but it was a typo, yeah?
        
             | dsr_ wrote:
             | Yes, it should be "With a terminal".
        
           | spullara wrote:
           | People are constantly saying these things about google and
           | when I search for:
           | 
           | "Stories set in the Culture in which Things Went Wrong tended
           | to start with humans losing or forgetting or deliberately
           | leaving behind their terminal"
           | 
           | I get the exact answer as a snippet at the top of the search.
           | I am beginning to think everyone that has bad search results
           | has some kind of malware installed on their computer since
           | their searches always work for me.
        
             | tyrfing wrote:
             | It fails if you search for the incorrect quote; the last
             | sentence should start "With" and not "Without". Checking
             | competitors, Bing fails to find any variation of the quote,
             | Yandex returns 5 results if you remove the incorrect word
             | and quote it, but returns garbage otherwise. Considering
             | the single-digit number of results for an apparently very
             | obscure quote, _and_ that it was incorrect, this does seem
             | reasonable.
             | 
             | I'm starting to think that standards are simply rising over
             | time. 10 years ago, would anyone complain that an incorrect
             | quote from a 30-year-old book didn't return results?
        
               | spullara wrote:
               | Trying this:
               | 
               | Without a terminal, you were never more than a question
               | or a shout away from almost anything you wanted to know
               | 
               | It suggests results that don't include terminal (but of
               | course that is a critical word for this quote), selecting
               | must include terminal, gives the quote as the top
               | results.
        
               | tyrfing wrote:
               | Fascinating. Quoting individual words like "terminal" or
               | "shout" also works as a nudge for both Google and Yandex,
               | but not for Bing.
               | 
               | And since our written observations modify the behavior,
               | an update: quoting the whole sentence now returns a
               | single result - this page.
        
             | tomilola39 wrote:
             | Parent likely searched without hard quotes; leading to the
             | bad results.
        
           | resfirestar wrote:
           | (I misunderstood your comment initially so corrected this
           | sentence) The problem is that the sentence is typo'd so
           | searching for the exact quote (not keywords) doesn't work
           | correctly. For the record the actual quote is:
           | 
           | >With a terminal, you were never more than a question or a
           | shout away from almost anything you wanted to know, or almost
           | any help you could possibly need
           | 
           | When you Google that in quotes you get actual results from
           | Google Books and Goodreads, while Bing/DuckDuckGo only
           | returns an archive from a random blog that quotes it halfway
           | down the page, and the new hot search engine Brave finds
           | nothing. I agree it's a little disappointing that one
           | mistaken word throws Google so far off the trail.
        
             | solveit wrote:
             | > I agree it's a little disappointing that one mistaken
             | word throws Google so far off the trail.
             | 
             | But can you imagine the aggravation if Google chooses to do
             | the opposite and 'helpfully' 'corrects' your quotes for
             | you? Actually I am not sure I have to imagine...
        
               | resfirestar wrote:
               | Definitely hands off my quote searches, but one might
               | hope that if you took out the quotation marks it would be
               | able to pick up the correct quote. In fact it can if you
               | change around certain words in the first sentence
               | (Stories set in the Culture...). I think what's going on
               | is that "without a terminal..." is not such a well known
               | quote and has some pretty broadly applicable keywords
               | (terminal...question...help), while combining the more
               | unique set of keywords from "stories set in the
               | culture...", which is a more well known quote, is more
               | likely to lead the search engine to the quote even if
               | you're missing one of the keywords in it due to a typo.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | shiftpgdn wrote:
           | Google is optimized around showing ads, not returning
           | relevant search results.
        
           | manachar wrote:
           | Google has become blinded by metrics focused on giving people
           | what an algorithm things most people want.
           | 
           | It's the digital equivalent of going to a restaurant and
           | looking for vegetarian food only to be inundated with gluten-
           | free and other health-fad foods.
           | 
           | I suspect their algorithm is in a bit of a doom loop as it's
           | being trained on people clicking worse and worse results of
           | pages that seem clearly written to game the SEO.
           | 
           | This is not unique to google. Amazon keeps including things I
           | didn't search for because they want to be "helpful".
           | 
           | Indeed, my experience at big box hardware stores is matching
           | this as well. If you go for one simple thing that you know
           | you want, you're presented with an entire aisle of absolute
           | crap that sort of does it but for much more money while the
           | one item you need is out of stock.
        
             | carom wrote:
             | Gluten free isn't a health fad. Please learn about celiacs.
        
               | joebob42 wrote:
               | The set of celiacs is _much_ smaller than the set of
               | people who think eating gluten free food is a good idea.
        
               | ashirviskas wrote:
               | Afaik unhealthy diet increases gluten sensitivity. I have
               | it and it sucks having your knees and elbows hurt for a
               | week after eating a gluten rich pizza.
        
               | kennywinker wrote:
               | > Afaik unhealthy diet increases gluten sensitivity
               | 
               | I don't want to argue with your overall point at all,
               | because I assume that whatever this sentence specifically
               | means to you is true for you - but given that there is no
               | actually objective definition of what a healthy diet is -
               | it's hard to agree with the statement in general. I would
               | feel like I was eating unhealthily if I had a can of coke
               | every day, but that doesn't actually mean it's unhealthy.
               | It probably depends on everything else I'm eating, how
               | much I'm burning off, maybe even something as fine-
               | grained as how fast I drink it. You would almost
               | definitely feel unhealthy if you were eating bread every
               | day, but as long as it was whole-wheat and had some good
               | sandwich fixins in it, I'd feel pretty good about that.
               | 
               | Anyway, sorry if I'm being pedantic, but I feel like
               | people toss around things like "healthy diet" as if we're
               | all supposed to know and agree what that means.
        
               | feanaro wrote:
               | > You would almost definitely feel unhealthy if you were
               | eating bread every day, but as long as it was whole-wheat
               | and had some good sandwich fixins in it, I'd feel pretty
               | good about that.
               | 
               | Eating bread every day is actually pretty common in some
               | cultures and people don't even stop to think it's
               | unhealthy because it's so commonplace, so even that
               | varies.
        
               | tleilaxu wrote:
               | It can be both...
        
               | mechanical_bear wrote:
               | It is a health fad for most. People with actual diagnosed
               | celiac's disease are rare. Self diagnosed... that is
               | another deal...
        
               | kennywinker wrote:
               | In addition to celiac disease, which is not actually so
               | rare - only about 3 times as rare as red hair - there is
               | also Wheat Allergy, which is very real and detectable by
               | measuring immune responses - and Non-Celiac Gluten
               | Sensitivity (NCGS).
               | 
               | Most of the "health fad" people you're talking about
               | would probably self-categorize themselves as NCGS, but
               | that doesn't mean that everybody who is NCGS is part of a
               | health fad. Double-blind "challenge" studies where people
               | are unaware if what they are eating contains wheat/gluten
               | have confirmed that for some people this is definitely
               | real and not a made up fad.
               | 
               | I'm not denying the existence of people going gluten free
               | for fad or orthorexia reasons, but be careful when you
               | lump everyone who is gluten free for non-celiac reasons
               | into that category.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | I work with a guy who is a real, fully diagnosed celiac
               | sufferer. The gluten-free fad has had serious
               | consequences for him. Some restaurants don't take him
               | seriously, claim gluten-free food when it isn't, and he
               | gets seriously ill when that happens. He doesn't eat out
               | so much any more because it's not worth the risk.
        
               | CrazyStat wrote:
               | On the other hand, it has greatly increased the
               | availability of pre-packaged gluten-free food options.
               | The consequences aren't all bad.
               | 
               | (I have a sibling with celiac disease).
        
               | MerelyMortal wrote:
               | Did it increase the actual availability, or just the
               | marketing?
               | 
               | I've noticed things that never had glueten in it, labeled
               | "glueten-free" after the craze a few years ago.
        
               | kennywinker wrote:
               | There are plenty of foods that have never had gluten-
               | containing ingredients, but have always been made in
               | factories or contexts where they come into contact with
               | gluten. Celiacs, and people with NCGS who have strong
               | reactions, when given the option will usually avoid
               | anything that hasn't been actively tested and confirmed
               | gluten free. For things like a bag of rice, or produce,
               | there isn't an option with that label for re-assurance,
               | and then it's a gamble... the odds of a bag of rice
               | containing gluten may be low, but with such big
               | consequences it's still a gamble. So the proliferation of
               | the GF label is useful. There have also been a ton of new
               | products launched that are gluten free, so it's
               | definitely not just a labeling thing.
        
               | CrazyStat wrote:
               | It absolutely increased availability. When my sibling was
               | first diagnosed things like gluten free bread had to be
               | ordered and shipped and were extremely expensive. Now
               | they're available in many (mostly up-market) grocery
               | stores, and while still expensive have come down in price
               | a lot.
        
               | Xylakant wrote:
               | I'm currently on vacation and the hotel breakfast buffet
               | has a gluten free bread option. Granted, it's prepackaged
               | toast, but I'd say it's better than hungry.
        
             | pizza wrote:
             | ironic. search engine optimization, rather than minimizing
             | the entropy of search, maximized it..
        
               | cassianoleal wrote:
               | It's not like the people at Google didn't know about
               | Goodhart's Law. Somehow I don't think SEO was ever meant
               | to improve search results.
        
               | pizza wrote:
               | Honestly I'm just surprised it's so profitable to be so
               | spammy that this stuff is persisting. That said, when I
               | see shit results, I hardly ever bother to click on the
               | second page any longer. Perhaps the seo spam taking up
               | the near-but-not-top results are the biggest schmucks of
               | all, since they are probably putting in at least a little
               | money/effort to get there, I would imagine?
        
             | DancesWTurtles wrote:
             | Little nitpick: "the algorithm" does not even find the
             | things "most people wants"; it finds the things some
             | executive or other decided it was the most convenient to
             | find taking into account the needs of the corporation only.
             | Yes, there is theoretically some way to return, up to some
             | degree, what people would find useful; but the decisions
             | are not made by the people fiddling with the algorithms.
             | Those people have their hands tied and must follow the
             | interests of someone who most of the time knows nothing
             | about algorithms or people or the end product.
        
               | skybrian wrote:
               | Even a little research would show that Google is far more
               | sophisticated than that in tuning its search engine.
        
           | ChuckMcM wrote:
           | Not surprised. The way I see it, Google is trying so hard to
           | monetize search that they have left behind any pretense of
           | information retrieval.
        
           | belltaco wrote:
           | Google has become borderline unusable for finding something
           | that's not popular that's more than a month or year old.
           | Multiple times I have spent more than 5 to 10 minutes trying
           | to find something I have read a few years or even a few
           | months ago and it's next to impossible to find it, even with
           | time gating the results Google just keeps returning popular
           | search results over specificity. The long tail is just
           | ignored in their current algo.
        
       | hadlock wrote:
       | Cell phone is how my daycare communicates with us. We've only had
       | our daughter in daycare for 3 months now and already we've had
       | (very)two minor medical issues they needed/wanted our input on.
       | It's also the device I use to organize who is picking her up from
       | daycare at the end of the day.
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | Interesting, of course I grew up in a time where you _couldn 't_
       | have a phone with you (economically) while on a trip with the
       | family. My concern was if something happened how would I reach
       | help. Not what was going on with the world. Different perspective
       | to be sure.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | chx wrote:
       | > I realized how our phone has become a real integral part of our
       | bodies
       | 
       | Almost: my phone shows my blood sugar level. Thus it's always in
       | Bluetooth range.
       | 
       | Here's a very short review of the Dexcom G6 doing the actual
       | measurement: the medical device is absolutely awesome, the mobile
       | app / website / APIs are the most god awful thing I had the bad
       | luck to work with in my three decades of using the web.
        
       | ryanchoi wrote:
       | Yeah, I opted for a smaller phone this last upgrade (in what,
       | four years) in hopes of using it less and being less noticeable
       | in the pocket. Used to have this big screen phone with which I
       | wouldn't have much issue watching or reading stuff on. Now with a
       | much smaller one, "not" having a huge screen to consume media on,
       | making it less attractive to do so, and it's been working pretty
       | well I think. Couldn't bring myself to go full dumbphone, er,
       | feature? phone.
        
         | mysterydip wrote:
         | I find it funny that the 13 mini (2.53"x5.18") is bigger than
         | the iphone 4 (2.31"x4.5") of yesteryear.
        
       | quitit wrote:
       | This is why I like my smart watch. I can walk out of the house
       | without my phone and still stay in touch if it's really needed
       | (it usually isn't) - I also like that I can triage notifications
       | without touching my phone, if I try doing that with my phone I
       | usually end up messing around with a lot more than I had
       | originally planned. Also using it for music and having the
       | assistant available fills out the main uses of my watch.
       | 
       | The only time I regret it is if there is something that i'd
       | really like to photograph.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | It's now abnormal to not have a phone handy. I was once reading a
       | paperback book in a restaurant while waiting for my meal, and
       | some woman approached me and started talking about ebooks. If
       | you're sitting someplace in public and not looking at a phone,
       | it's suspicious behavior.
        
       | alphabettsy wrote:
       | My grandparents don't wish things back to the good ole days. It's
       | possible to have balance.
        
       | ribs wrote:
       | Mobile phones, particularly smartphones, are incredibly useful
       | devices, particularly while mobile, and it doesn't seem weird to
       | be uncomfortable when one doesn't have it.
        
       | Crabber wrote:
       | People in this thread are conflating "phone" and "smartphone".
       | 
       | You can just carry a cheap dumbphone and it works for texting
       | people or emergency calls just fine.
        
         | id wrote:
         | But then I need two phones. Why?
        
       | Jhsto wrote:
       | I have found smartwatches a good for this purposes. With cellular
       | connectivity you have emergency services, calls, certain
       | notifications, maps, and NFC payments. You cant procrastinate on
       | it as easily as with a phone.
       | 
       | Many in this thread suggest a feature phone. Anecdotally, a
       | friend of mine went this route, but people became suspicious of
       | him. Especially when meeting new people. His dates thought he was
       | cheating on his (non-existent) wife, or that he was hiding
       | something in more general sense. He returned to having a
       | smartphone after a year or so with a feature phone.
        
       | saurik wrote:
       | This uncomfortable feeling though was just because it wasn't in
       | your pants, providing a specific sensory input you are used to,
       | not because "oh no! I need Twitter!". One has the same feeling
       | about objects like wallets and keys.
       | 
       | I have carried a shoulder bag since I was a kid, before I had
       | ever even used the Internet. Recently, indirectly due to the
       | pandemic, I have stopped using my shoulder bag very much... I am
       | constantly freaked out by its lack.
       | 
       | I haven't worn a watch in decades: I used to wear a watch _only_
       | when I was a kid, and I stopped in college. And yet, to do this
       | day--not often! maybe once a year, tops--I will suddenly have
       | this visceral feeling  "I lost my watch".
       | 
       | I have worn the same jacket for the past four years. This jacket
       | puts a bit of weight on the back of my neck. I recently went out
       | for a whole day wearing a hoodie and I kept feeling confused as
       | "I am not wearing my jacket".
       | 
       | FWIW, I keep notifications off on my phone at all times. I think
       | the entire idea that I can be randomly interrupted _insane_. I
       | thereby often just _disappear_ from being able to be contacted by
       | anyone for a day because  "I was having fun".
       | 
       | And yet, if I don't know where my phone is, I start freaking
       | out... not because "I need my fix", but because it is an
       | expensive object that has a lot of personal data on it and (as
       | mine are old/jailbroken) might not even be replaceable.
       | 
       | I thereby disagree with the idea here: your phone is simply a
       | tool, and it is probably one of the most powerful tools you have
       | ever owned. The feeling of making it part of yourself is
       | extremely human: we love to build and use tools.
       | 
       | What isn't reasonable is one way you have chosen to use that
       | tool, but that's entirely unrelated to the very normal feelings
       | you have when you suddenly don't have it in your pocket: move it
       | to your other pocket and you will also feel bad.
       | 
       | Just think: your phone is also a clock, a map (compete with GPS
       | and compass), a camera (photo and video), a calculator, a
       | tricorder, and _the hitchhicker 's guide to the galaxy_ all at
       | once... what a shame to feel you can't carry one.
        
       | gregoriol wrote:
       | I feel uncomfortable when leaving my watch at home too
       | (mechanical, not digital one).
        
       | mjevans wrote:
       | Disconnecting from work should be fine. That's a boundary most
       | should have outside of high stakes life and death jobs. Even
       | then, coverage by more than one person should be warranted, and
       | paid for.
       | 
       | Personal phone? That's my lifeline to civilization if something
       | bad happens. Also an AV capture device.
        
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