[HN Gopher] Shopify to Acquire Delivrr for $2.1B
___________________________________________________________________
Shopify to Acquire Delivrr for $2.1B
Author : agd
Score : 303 points
Date : 2022-05-05 13:49 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.shopify.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.shopify.com)
| blobbers wrote:
| SHOP stock has been absolutely slaughtered in the last 6 months.
|
| They're either super geniuses with long term vision the markets
| can't see, or people have completely lost faith with them for
| exactly these kinds of moves.
| blobbers wrote:
| (which are they?)
| JonathanBeuys wrote:
| The market values them at $53B. That's not a small sum.
| blobbers wrote:
| Indeed. But it also devalued them by $150B in the span of 6
| months.
| bdefore wrote:
| I'm probably thinking about this backwards, but I'm
| embarrassingly well trained to search for anything I need on
| Amazon. if I want to support Shopify at Amazon's expense, is
| there a straightforward way of breaking out of this training and
| find what I need among Shopify-powered merchants? Without getting
| lost in SEO-spam or influencer peddling?
| FunnyLookinHat wrote:
| This is a classic example of "The best acquisitions start as
| partnerships." I'm not privy to any internal details of either,
| but reading the writing on the wall from Deliverr's website and
| posts around the web, Shopify was a huge integration for them
| (likely a majority of their business). I am willing to get
| they've worked together at a C-Suite level to make sure that's a
| good relationship for a while now, and that has a tendency to
| produce excellent terms for acquisition (for both parties)!
| awillen wrote:
| I own an ecommerce business, and I recently moved away from my
| previous 3PL (third party logistics company, like Deliverr). In
| doing so, I evaluated a number of 3PLs, including Deliverr.
|
| For those who aren't familiar, Amazon Multi Channel Fulfillment,
| which allows you to fulfill orders not placed on Amazon from
| their warehouses, is much cheaper than all alternatives for a lot
| of smaller packages. As an example, I have one item that's 2.5
| pounds, and about 8.5"x4"x4". To ship it via USPS would cost me
| $10-12, depending on where it's going. Amazon charges me $6.77.
|
| Deliverr, at least when I evaluated them about six months ago,
| matched Amazon's pricing exactly. That was pretty shocking to me,
| since Amazon's clearly only able to maintain those prices because
| they have their own fulfillment network and lots of revenue from
| elsewhere to subsidize the actual cost of delivery.
|
| I am currently using Amazon MCF as my 3PL, and one of the reasons
| I went with them over Deliverr was a genuine concern that
| Deliverr had a money-losing business model that would only work
| at Amazon scale, which is obviously a nigh-impossible thing to
| achieve.
|
| I'm glad to see they got acquired by Shopify, as I think the
| competition for Amazon is a good thing in the marketplace. That
| said, I'm definitely curious to see if Shopify will be able to
| maintain price parity with Amazon.
| shmatt wrote:
| Seeing that they raised $500M in 5 rounds, they were probably
| just paying the difference themselves, there never was real
| parity
|
| The fact they were bought for the same value as their series E
| valuation 6 months ago also doesn't say good things about their
| cash flow. Imagine every new employee these past 6 months just
| got $0 profit from their options/RSUs (assuming there was some
| double trigger)
| hef19898 wrote:
| Not sure about the US, but for my, failed, start-up that went
| in a similar direction like Deliverr I did some price
| calculations. And for Europe it was, before Covid, very
| realistic to achieve price parity with FBA. I'd have too look
| the numbers up again, but the volumes were easily within reach
| for a single, not too big FBA merchant. Not enough to make a
| whole _business_ based on that profitable, with all the
| overhead and such, but profitable on a transaction basis.
| awillen wrote:
| Here it definitely depends on the types of packages, and my
| experience is very much in the 1-5 pound range - as you get
| larger, it's clearly more profitable. Still, however I ran
| the numbers, I just couldn't see Deliverr taking on my
| company as a client and not losing money on shipping alone
| (before factoring in all the overhead). Obviously it'd depend
| on their mix of business, but overall I just think being a
| 3PL, unless you have some specialty that allows you to charge
| a premium, is just a brutal, low-margin, race-to-the-bottom
| kind of business. I'm glad that Shopify made the acquisition,
| as having both Deliverr and Amazon MCF run as part of broader
| ecommerce platforms, as opposed to standalone 3PLs, will be
| good for ecommerce merchants and customers.
| hef19898 wrote:
| Being a 3PL is a brutal business, that's true. Logistics
| is, for what it's worth, regardless of industry. Not sure
| if it is actually a race to the bottom, because costs are
| the same for every player, more or less, in the same
| region. And the region is defined by infrastructure,
| customer requirements and so on. Which leaves salaries, and
| there it is sometimes a race to the bottom. Amazon, funny
| enough, is paying their own warehouse workers above average
| so (at least in Germany last time I checked).
|
| Amazon does have an advantage on small item (sortable in
| Amazon parlance). For larger items 3PL operations are
| actually pretty straight forward. Edit: or rather items you
| don't mind to ship as singles, one item per package.
| revel wrote:
| I work at an international logistics unicorn and I used to work
| at Amazon in some of these groups.
|
| Amazon has a glass jaw. They are good at being an aggressor but
| I don't know how they will cope with some of the changes taking
| place in the logistics industry.
| awillen wrote:
| I don't really understand what you mean - it's not like
| others can just decide to aggressively come after them when
| it comes to fulfillment. It takes enormous scale to be able
| to do that. In every part of logistics, Amazon's scale acts
| as a moat.
| relueeuler wrote:
| It's capital intensive! They have a huge moat that has been
| developed for two decades. People are really understating
| the problem.
| g-unit33 wrote:
| Anyone know how many warehouses deliverr works with ?
| mahidol wrote:
| Shopify seems to be moving from an asset-light to asset-heavy
| mode, but also significantly dialing down their investor
| communication: this is just so unlike them, considering how
| things have always been.
| bradly wrote:
| For those of us unfamilir with Delivrr:
|
| _Our Mission:
|
| Large online marketplaces like Amazon have trained consumers to
| expect products delivered to their doorsteps within 1-2 days at
| no extra cost. As a result, millions of merchants on other
| marketplaces are falling behind, unable to cost-effectively
| deliver products to their customers within 1-2 days. Our mission
| is to enable any merchant, regardless of size, to delight their
| customers with fast and cost-effective fulfillment._
| Avalaxy wrote:
| Sounds just like a normal postal service then? At least in my
| country it's the default that the national post service
| delivers your packages in 1 day.
| KoftaBob wrote:
| I assume based on your bio, that your country is the
| Netherlands? The US is 236x the size of the Netherlands, so
| you can imagine getting something to a customer in 1-2 days
| requires a more complex and extensive logistics system.
| jeffreyrogers wrote:
| It takes several days to drive across the US. You need a
| logistics network with warehouses spread across the country
| to service a meaningful portion of the country in 1-2 days.
| rabidonrails wrote:
| But to be fair, in your country (looks like NL) the square
| mileage is 16,040. The US has a sq mileage of the US is
| 3,797,000.
| colinmhayes wrote:
| Small merchants probably don't want to be going to the post
| office multiple times a day. Even if they were large enough
| for that to make sense the US is too big for cost effective
| next day delivery to the entire country, you need to have
| distribution centers all over.
| hef19898 wrote:
| That sounds like a very good summary of what I tried a couple
| of years ago. good to see the idea succeed!
| vdfs wrote:
| Shopify is actually doing that too, they have a fulfillment
| service/network https://www.shopify.com/fulfillment
| [deleted]
| firstSpeaker wrote:
| Aiming at Amazon by setting deeper and deeper vertical
| brianwawok wrote:
| Congratulations! We have been a partner with Deliverr since they
| were quite small, and has been fun to watch their growth. They
| help a lot of my clients ship packages fast.
| airstrike wrote:
| This was rumored about a couple weeks ago
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31102655
| axg11 wrote:
| Great acquisition in the short-medium term for Shopify. I do
| wonder how Shopify will differentiate itself in the long term.
| From the outside it looks like Shopify's plan to compete with
| Amazon is to handle more of the logistics, create an ad network,
| and ultimately drive discovery across Shopify stores (via unified
| search?).
|
| That plan will result in the same issues that Amazon has today.
| There is nothing inherently higher quality about products sold
| through Shopify today. Shopify attracts brand-focused sellers
| that correlates with higher quality. In order to grow they will
| have to attract high-volume (lower quality) less brand focused
| sellers, ending up with the same issue.
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| > From the outside it looks like Shopify's plan to compete with
| Amazon
|
| A lot of customers (retailers) sell on both a DTC platfor like
| Shopify, Magento, Hybris, Woocommerce, whatever AND Amazon.
|
| Of course running a woocommerce site is more expensive, but the
| margins are better than amazon.
|
| The question is after shopify adds all this stuff, will the
| margins still be better than an amazon store?
| ineedasername wrote:
| Yes, retailers can purchase software (well, usually rent via
| SaaS) where they can manage their catalog of inventory,
| fulfillment, product imagery, etc., all from a single
| interface.
| toddmorey wrote:
| Anyone else worry that we don't really need _everything_ "port to
| porch" in two days? It's impressive logistics, but I worry about
| the environmental impact when we so strongly stress urgency over
| efficiency.
|
| Or are there ways to make rapid home deliveries efficient in ways
| I don't comprehend?
| ineedasername wrote:
| I look at it this way, and see two counterpoints (though I
| could be wrong):
|
| 1) the product has to get to you anyway. Whether they do that
| in two days or a week, it doesn't seem like the T+NUM_DAYS
| variable would impact the environment differently.
|
| 2) if not for rapid shipping, a lot more people would go out
| shopping at stores a lot more. A single truck making a lot of
| deliveries-- even though it's running for 8-13+ hours, may
| still be more efficient than all of those people making
| multiple trips to different stores to get what they need.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Once you put the infrastructure (airplanes capacity, delivery
| cars, processing centers, etc) to do next-day deliveries in
| place, in a lot of places you don't have enough scale to
| saturate it, so it's more efficient to run everything over it
| than to use something else.
|
| This is a very normal thing in logistics. I imagine on the
| places where there is enough scale, they do offer discounts for
| slower options.
| hammock wrote:
| Reminds me of conventional vs organic milk. Organic milk was
| far more expensive and in short supply for so long, related
| to conversion costs for conventional dairy farms. However
| once McDonalds switched to organic milk, it became cost
| effective for most dairies to switch over to organic.
| GordonS wrote:
| Something I like about Amazon is the ability to nominate an
| "Amazon Day" (e.g. Friday). When checking out, you have the
| option of next day delivery as usual, but so have the option to
| choose your Amazon Day.
|
| As you say, a lot of the time you don't _need_ things the next
| day, so this is a nice way to group all your orders into a
| single delivery, while being more climate friendly.
| tibyat wrote:
| [deleted]
| cjrp wrote:
| I know what you mean, my assumption is that quicker (on-demand)
| delivery requires more vehicle miles than a slower, batched
| delivery.
| missedthecue wrote:
| then again, if deliveries took 5-7 days instead of 1-2, more
| people would probably just drive out and buy what they want,
| which is worse for the environment than one truck making 200
| deliveries per day.
| BaseballPhysics wrote:
| TBH, while I'm worried about that, I'm far more concerned with
| the poor state of reverse logistics. The sheer amount of
| returned product that ends up in a landfill is shocking and,
| assuming direct-to-consumer online purchasing continues to
| thrive--and I think that's inevitable--we desperately need a
| solution that allows products to be rapidly inspected,
| recovered, and returned to supply chains in a way that's
| efficient and sustainable.
| neither_color wrote:
| If you mean vehicle emissions that's a consequence of our
| country's car-centric design. I lived in a large Asian city for
| a while and nearly everything that could be carried by a single
| person was delivered delivered via electric bikes/scooters,
| both online retail and food delivery.
| tjbiddle wrote:
| I wouldn't expect Deliverr to add much, if any, environmental
| impact.
|
| The way they work is by partnering with hundreds/thousands of
| warehouses throughout the US. The merchant sends units in to a
| few of these, and now the units are closer to the end customer,
| so it can get there faster.
|
| Whether it's all stored in one central warehouse, and then
| distributed, or done via Deliverr (& Amazon FBA & Walmart's)
| way, it still needs to get from A to B. Just now it's closer.
| There might be a little extra shuffling.
|
| What I love about Deliverr is they have very predictable
| pricing. I used them for some small units I experimented with
| adding to my catalog.
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| reverse logistics actually can be environmentally positive.
| Instead of mailing a return back to the headquarters, you
| drop it off at kohls or cvs and then it gets batched and sent
| as a palette rather than as loose mail. Pretty cool stuff
| easton wrote:
| Cloudflare (or your favorite CDN company) for physical goods.
| That's neat!
| purephase wrote:
| As others have said, I'm not sure the environment impact is
| different between 1-2 days vs. a week. In terms of fuel costs
| etc. Maybe travelling by ship instead of air, or on long haul
| might affect this though.
|
| I'm more concerned about the human toll on the rapid delivery
| tbh. As someone joked, I created a prime order that sets off a
| rube goldbert level of dystopian suffering for a number of
| humans, just so I get a product at my door that I could have
| picked up from a local retailer in under an hour.
|
| That's my bigger concern.
| subpixel wrote:
| We already live in this broken future. Deliverr powers Walmart
| warehousing and a recent order for 12 units of dental floss
| resulted in 5 packages arriving over several days.
| giarc wrote:
| I live in Canada but have family in the US. When I was there
| many years ago I ordered some stuff on Amazon and got the
| option to delay delivery to a more efficient time, and in
| return was offered some coupons for either future orders or the
| Amazon app store (can't quite remember).
|
| I order from Amazon somewhat frequently and would be happy to
| have 'weekly' delivery rather than next day. 99% of the time I
| don't need it right away.
| mcintyre1994 wrote:
| I'm in the UK and Amazon has offered this for a while now -
| they call it Amazon Day. I don't order regularly enough for
| it to be worth it, but I think the idea is that you order
| whatever through the week and it's all delivered together on
| one day each week.
| giarc wrote:
| Interesting, I wish they would bring that to Canada. I hate
| seeing my recycling bin full of one time use cardboard
| boxes. There's a small chain of hardware stores in North
| America called Lee Valley (think specialty hardware and
| tools, not HomeDepot). The owner was so annoyed at all the
| boxes he offered to pay anyone $0.25 for any box they
| brought it. He even used not so subtle language like "Those
| boxes with a smile." It was during the pandemic so I
| suspect it was a little self serving (ex. their supply of
| boxes was hard to come by or their cost was greater than
| $0.25 for regular boxes), but the message came off as very
| genuine.
| [deleted]
| banana_giraffe wrote:
| Perhaps they've improved this, but when I tried using
| "Amazon Day", it just meant fewer deliveries, but those
| deliveries still resulted in the same number of boxes.
|
| It also, hilariously, sometimes didn't even result in
| fewer deliveries, just all of those deliveries occurring
| on one day.
| ISL wrote:
| Even if it only occasionally results in fewer deliveries,
| Amazon Day is still an efficiency win.
| valarauko wrote:
| I almost always choose "Amazon Day". Most of the time the
| orders get consolidated into fewer boxes (not always,
| though).
| valenaut wrote:
| I have Amazon Day in NYC as well. Wasn't aware that it
| doesn't exist everywhere.
| DaltonCoffee wrote:
| Absolutely agree. Jimmy jet set is getting his vibrolux pen set
| delivered biweekly in record time, meanwhile some of the world
| waits exorbodently for deliveries of life saving medicine and
| food, or are otherwise greatly dissserviced by supply and
| delivery operations.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| I mean, most of the stuff we don't even need, never mind
| needing it in two days.
| kareemm wrote:
| I love this move by Shopify. As a merchant (in Canada, where
| typical shipping prices are extortionate) I'd love to give
| Shopify more money (but presumably less than we pay 3rd party
| shippers) for better overall delivery service for my customers.
|
| As a buyer, I'd love to spend more with not-Amazon and get
| comparable service.
|
| I'm increasingly disappointed with Amazon. It's full of knockoff
| crappy products with unrelated 5 star reviews. That eroding trust
| in Amazon is pushing me to smaller brands who have a face and
| stand behind their product for key purchases. This move by
| Shopify will just accelerate that transition away from Amazon.
|
| Just waiting for the search bar to shop every Shopify store so I
| have a viable alternative to Amazon to buy whatever I need.
| cameronpm wrote:
| Shop app (made by shopify) has had cross shopify search for a
| few months in beta. I recommend trying it out! I worked on the
| infrastructure for this.
| kareemm wrote:
| Super sweet. I love Shop app. Tracking shipments is a nice
| way to get app installs... and you can backdoor a shopping
| experience as you roll out new versions. Well played!
| m3kw9 wrote:
| How is this not Amazon minus each storefront page is custom
| designed?
| cschmidt wrote:
| One main distinction is that Shopify shops have a direct to
| consumer relationship. They can send you emails, and build
| up a brand. Amazon keeps the customer relationship, and if
| you succeed, they'll try to commoditize you. So it isn't
| that much different for the user (with a unified checkout
| out cart), but is much better for the store owner.
|
| Edit: you might find this article about the differences
| between the Shopify and Amazon ecosystems interesting
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/24/magazine/shopify.html
| thedangler wrote:
| It's funny, I sent them an email long long long time ago
| asking if there was some way to source all products on
| Shopify so I could build just this. Maybe they noted it and
| turned it into a product.
| lancesells wrote:
| I think an even better solution would be a curated search.
| Like Amazon there are plenty of dropshipping low quality
| stores / products on Shopify. I would like someone to build
| out a search of the best 500 stores.
| cameronpm wrote:
| Shop app has a bunch of curated search areas in it, I
| would check it out!
| justusthane wrote:
| No offense intended, but I doubt it. It is a good idea, but
| it's also an obvious idea.
| jhenkens wrote:
| This reminds me of my number one response when "friends"
| come to me with startup ideas.
|
| Your company is another company's feature. As in, you are
| trying to build a business, on something that is an
| afterthought, tiny feature for an existing company to
| add.
| stavros wrote:
| What company isn't? My problem with this is that I can't
| think of a company that started as anything other than a
| missing feature.
| ipaddr wrote:
| Start with a bigger idea. Shopify isn't a missing
| feature. Why not take them on?
| stavros wrote:
| Showing the store is certainly a trivially missing
| feature of Amazon's.
| burke wrote:
| Shopify has been around for a while--since before Amazon
| became the everything-retailer that they are now. It
| started out of frustration at the myriad annoyances in
| trying to get set up using osCommerce and other tools of
| that generation.
|
| (Disclaimer: employee)
| mooreds wrote:
| This comment reminds me of this post with discusses the
| feature -> product -> company evolution:
| https://medium.com/@sethlevine/the-feature-product-
| company-c...
| thedangler wrote:
| None taken.
| mishra wrote:
| Love the Shop app. But one major compliant is that there is
| no email verification. So I get notified of every order that
| accidentally used my email address (common Indian name @
| gmail.com). Wish I could only be notified of orders that I
| placed.
| pkaler wrote:
| >> So I get notified of every order that accidentally used
| my email address (common Indian name @ gmail.com).
|
| Someone needs to solve the (common Indian name @ gmail.com)
| problem. Preferably, Google/Gmail would solve this. But my
| email gets signed up on a daily basis to new services.
| thenipper wrote:
| I've got that problem too with my username minus the
| "the" at gmail. It's so annoying.
| mkr-hn wrote:
| Stopgap solution until they fix it: change it to
| name+shopify @ gmail
|
| You might need to make it more unique if someone else had
| that idea.
| jeromegv wrote:
| Does that mean you also get the email receipt for every
| transactions?
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > As a buyer, I'd love to spend more with not-Amazon and get
| comparable service.
|
| Comparable service? My experience buying from Amazon is a
| nearly 100% rate of telling me my item will be delivered on a
| certain date, and then, the day after, saying "We're so sorry
| that unforeseeable circumstances (really?) have resulted in the
| late delivery of your item. We hope the date wasn't important!
| No, we do not offer any compensation for late deliveries.
| Please suck it."
| didibus wrote:
| Search bar would bring the same problem to Shopify. Knockoff
| will always sell for cheaper, and will try to game the search
| so they'll end up at the top and quickly become the most
| purchased.
|
| It's the lack of search that differentiates Shopify. You get to
| hear about the shop itself, instead of wanting a product and
| searching for the cheapest/best. This latter behavior means
| you'll always end up finding drop shippers or asian sellers.
| While in the former you find a merchant that you like, trust,
| feel has a good reputation, and you don't mind purchasing from
| them even if they don't have the best price (mostly because you
| can't easily compare the price).
| zackees wrote:
| As a seller on Amazon I whole heartedly disagree.
|
| You have to experience trying to sell on Amazon to understand
| that their policies forbid quality markers like stating
| patents. The entire system is rigged so that people who
| design and make products can't even differentiate from the
| knock offs.
|
| Amazon needs the competition so there is someplace on the
| internet where domestic manufacturers can have a leg up.
| function_seven wrote:
| > _You have to experience trying to sell on Amazon to
| understand that their policies forbid quality markers like
| stating patents._
|
| Can you expand on this? Do they have rules that stop you
| from saying things like, "Patented Blozzle Technology
| prevents the widget from snagging on gadgets" or listing a
| patent number in the description?
| zackees wrote:
| Yes, absolutely. If you say covered by patent X your
| product page won't go through. It's explicitly states in
| their guidelines that mentioning patents are disallowed.
| speed_spread wrote:
| What if you name your product like "Patented Toaster
| #54386549"? And you trademark that. Surely they can't
| prevent you from using the registered product's name to
| describe it?
| noboostforyou wrote:
| > I'm increasingly disappointed with Amazon. It's full of
| knockoff crappy products with unrelated 5 star reviews. That
| eroding trust in Amazon
|
| Anyone remember eBay?
| detritus wrote:
| Me. I use eBay a few times a month, but never, ever touch
| Amazon.
|
| *shrug
| itsoktocry wrote:
| > _I 'd love to give Shopify more money (but presumably less
| than we pay 3rd party shippers) for better overall delivery
| service for my customers._
|
| Better quality for a lower price? Don't we all want that! I
| wish them luck on actually pulling it off.
| kareemm wrote:
| They already did that with Canada post shipping. If you buy
| directly from CP you pay $x. If you buy a CP label from
| Shopify it costs less than $x because they're a massive CP
| customer.
| nautilus12 wrote:
| I can't stand Amazon. In my mind they are equivalent to a
| cancer that society needs to collectively purge. I don't say
| this hyperbolically, I say this after much experience. I only
| do work on GCP now
| Melatonic wrote:
| The big problem I have with Amazon is that the damn search is
| just so terrible - even if you try to search for an exact item
| (which you know exists and is legit and sold on Amazon) half
| the time it gives you a bunch of unrelated aliexpress garbage.
| Especially for more niche queries.
| AnonMO wrote:
| Shopify is mostly crappy drop shippers buying of Alibaba and
| selling for x more. If you add a search bar the problem will
| just come to the surface. Just say you don't like amazon.
| hef19898 wrote:
| Isn't shopify also a lot of non-Shopify branded web shops? I
| don't think crappy dropshipping stuff from Asia will ever go
| away, that's why middlemen are important, those can filter
| out the bad crap products. At which point those middlemen
| also become a brand, it doesn't work without reputation.
| Funny little commerce actually changed from the first time
| someone sold a stone knife for a handful of berries.
| karmakaze wrote:
| [disclaimer: I work at Shopify]
|
| My experience is that all the shops are non-Shopify
| 'branded'. Some are on shopify.com subdomains if they
| haven't set up a custom domain.
| AnonMO wrote:
| yes it is. Alot of apparel and sneaker sites use shopify.
| I've interacted with them when i used to make bots,but
| Filtering products won't work when buyers are looking for
| the cheapest product at least in my opinion. Also imo
| shopify is the reason bots are/were able to become so
| dominant.
| kareemm wrote:
| I buy lots of stuff from Shopify merchants who make / source
| unique products: clothing, bike gear, skincare, electronics.
| I'm sure there are a lot of crappy drop shippers too but I'd
| hope to not see them in a search experience. Guess that would
| be up to Shopify to sort out. But I'm hopeful. Anything who's
| been paying attention realizes that trust in Amazon is
| eroding fast. It's an opp for Shopify.
| dominotw wrote:
| i am looking for some unique products. Wondering what
| people's favorites are.
| robryan wrote:
| Shopify basically has the data for this. They could just
| exclude from the search sites that don't already get a
| decent amount of direct sales. There are other metrics as
| well like refunds/ chargebacks and return customers.
| ecshafer wrote:
| disclaimer I work for Shopify, opinions are my own.
|
| I do not think this is true. I don't know the % of shops that
| are drop shippers, but I do not think it's the majority. Most
| Shopify merchants are selling things. A lot of stores are
| Shopify stores that are on custom domains and unless you look
| at the source, nothing tells you that they are a Shopify
| merchant. I know of RPG and Board Game publishers and
| designers with Shopify stores, a local coffee shop and coffee
| roaster is a Shopify merchant, food companies, etc. There are
| companies that that have IPOd that started as Shopify stores
| selling their own things; Which is really cool.
| thesimon wrote:
| > and unless you look at the source, nothing tells you that
| they are a Shopify merchant
|
| Unless they are doing a headless integration, the Shopify
| UI is very easy to spot. For me this has started to become
| a signal of shops to take great caution and best to avoid.
|
| If not during shopping, then once you add the product to
| the cart, it is very obvious.
| [deleted]
| Spivak wrote:
| Amazon is mostly drop shippers too, and Etsy for that matter,
| what's being sold by "shops" on Shopify or "merchants" on
| Amazon isn't really the issue. It should not at all be
| surprising that "low effort" shops are more numerous. There's
| quality stuff on all those platforms, and Shopify (for now)
| is better to the merchants.
|
| Amazon's total dominance of online shopping is because of
| their logistics network and having more than one company
| providing fast inexpensive shipping is good, it means people
| have somewhere else to go if Amazon gives them a raw deal.
| cschmidt wrote:
| > Just waiting for the search bar to shop every Shopify store.
|
| That's exactly what my startup [1] is making. We have 395,000
| shops at the moment. Love to hear any feedback.
|
| [1] https://www.delomore.com/
| kareemm wrote:
| Awesome. How do you source your merchants? I ran two searches
| for specific merchants I buy from and didn't find them.
| cschmidt wrote:
| I've listed all of the (English language) shops I can find
| through Common crawl etc. That gives me 56 million products
| from 395k shops. Shopify quotes 1.75 million shops in all
| languages. So I've got a fraction of the total, but enough
| to be interesting, I hope.
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| Check out https://storeleads.app - should have close to
| 100% of public Shopify stores, plus other platforms if
| those are interesting.
| cschmidt wrote:
| Thanks that looks like a fantastic resource.
| jdpedrie wrote:
| Have you considered offering the service as an API?
| cschmidt wrote:
| Would you like to use it as an API? What would the use case
| be?
| throwawayboise wrote:
| I've pretty much given up on any kind of shopping aggregator.
|
| I go to the brand/manufacturer website directly and buy online
| there if possible. I feel that's the best way to get what I am
| intending to buy, even if it's not the lowest possible price.
| hbn wrote:
| A lot of the time that's gonna be more expensive in Canada,
| if not only cause a lot of manufacturers only have warehouses
| in the US. You'll likely pay more for shipping (which could
| be significant, like $15 shipping on a $20 item), potentially
| get a letter a few weeks later from the courier saying you
| owe them money for import fees, and will likely wait longer
| than if you just got it through the free Prime subscription
| you're already paying for.
| e-clinton wrote:
| I like the tracking features of Shop app, hate the recommendation
| of products. Just be a tracker and don't try and sell my more
| crap.
| colesantiago wrote:
| This is HUGE. A direct hit to Amazon, nice move Shopify!
| relueeuler wrote:
| It isn't. $AMZN accelerated capex in the last two years to meet
| the demand brought on by Covid. They even over built, but have
| also launched Buy With Prime to open up their logistical
| infrastructure as a service. It takes a long time to get where
| $AMZN is at.
| vishnugupta wrote:
| Amazon's catalog quality and customer service is going downhill
| very fast. Shopify has a real opportunity to fill that void.
|
| Amazon was known for maintaining high quality of their catalogue.
| But since opening up their store front for third party sellers
| it's resembling flee market by the day. For example they had a
| very strict policy of one product one page I.e Single Detail Page
| (SDP), indexed by ASIN. But now exact same product has multiple
| ASINs. You don't know if it's a fake or genuine.
| alangibson wrote:
| It's kind of funny how Amazon got totally owned by sellers on
| their SDP policy. Why compete for the buy button when you can
| take the same item and sell it under your own trademarked
| brand, thus making it no longer the same.
|
| I hate the flea market Amazon has turned into, but I have to
| admit it's a brilliant end run.
| jollybean wrote:
| It's a brilliant end run for less powerful entities. For
| others ... the issue may come home to roost.
| hef19898 wrote:
| Quite a while ago I was asked what a potential Amazon killer
| could be. My answer was someone who could scale drop shipping
| to every brick-and-mortar store in a seamless suite covering
| last-mile delivery all the way down to in shop inventories and
| POS solutions. Because that would be a limitless catalogue,
| from local shops and businesses as well as big name brands and
| everything in between, without any significant inventories.
|
| It seems that Shopify is kind of going in that direction.
| desiarnezjr wrote:
| This would be way harder than most could imagine. Each of
| these pieces in aggregate would be interesting but
| aggregating, expanding, managing each part of the experience
| would be close to impossible. Kind of like asking what a
| killer car might be and throwing every feature you can think
| of into the BOM (like the Simpson's Homer car).
|
| Supply chain, logistics, retail and back office applications
| of each are very messy. Businesses are messy.
| stefan_ wrote:
| Not to mention that it is somehow possible to hijack totally
| unrelated product pages so you get the reviews. Or straight up
| offering to pay for a good review and not be instantly and
| permanently banned.
| greatpostman wrote:
| Not sure if I'm allowed to post this, but I worked that exact
| technical problem in the Amazon catalog. It's extremely
| difficult to keep high data integrity of the Amazon catalog
| when all these 3rd parties are contributing information. It
| gets abused in every possible way.
|
| Basically third party sellers add info about Asins, which in
| real time gets merged with existing Asin information. It's all
| automated
| notatoad wrote:
| This is one of those big tech company problems that makes me
| wonder what I'm missing.
|
| Amazon has money. If they cared about the integrity of their
| catalog, they'd pay people to maintain it instead of giving
| control over it to the people who most benefit from it being
| wrong.
| AnssiH wrote:
| They probably simply estimate that hiring a team to
| manually maintain (or moderate) their catalog of hundreds
| of millions of products would cost more than it would
| improve sales.
| 0des wrote:
| The machines are just doing what they are told. Im no growth
| hacker, but if I were in this situation, I would be doing the
| math to see if the cost of slowing down and having a human in
| the process provides more money in the long run by increased
| customer satisfaction and return business rather than the
| current strategy which could be non filtered for all we know,
| judging by what we see.
|
| There was a sweet spot, in my recent memory, with Amazon
| years back where I just got the things I ordered, and it took
| 2 days at most. This was right before the Amazon button
| things theyd send with your fabric softener where you'd just
| press the button and more Snuggle would appear.
|
| The first thing, in my case, was being sent the same items
| twice, one time it was an entire mattress, which was great,
| but it was a sign. Next came counterfeit items from known
| reputable sellers, a side effect of product being binned
| together, as someone explained to me. Buying from the correct
| amazon store was a crapshoot, because the counterfeits were
| in the same bin, allegedly. Essentially someone buying the
| knockoff could have received the genuine item I paid for.
|
| The final straw was in the same week: receiving a completely
| different order of items than what I ordered, dog food and
| womens products when I ordered a keyboard, the price of prime
| going up, and the fact that everything in the catalog was
| obvious eastern origin products, misspellings, run-on
| sentence item titles and other hallmarks that Im about to be
| alibaba'd when the gear arrives.
|
| The headache just wasn't worth it anymore. I never ordered
| from amazon again. I absolutely have more cost in finding
| certain items in town, but I feel better knowing there is a
| person whos face has pointed in the direction of mine while
| an item was being exchanged for money, hand to hand. There is
| a trust in that which Amazon is hopeless to ever capture. I
| hope this catches on.
| [deleted]
| jollybean wrote:
| Or just 'vet' sellers, for gosh sakes that's how the whole
| world operates.
|
| They have to put some effort into deciding who they want to
| carry and not, it's a very regular part of doing business.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| Which costs time and money, when you can just go what
| Amazon do now and not very them but instead take a
| percentage on most of their scam sales. It's not like
| Amazon don't know any of this is happening; they've
| crunched the numbers for sure. They make more profit being
| evil.
| pluc wrote:
| A solution is often just getting rid of the problem. No third
| party = no problem. The real problem that surfaces then is
| probably that it's too profitable to throw out and so it
| becomes something Amazon just chooses to live with as long as
| it can.
| rdtwo wrote:
| It's probably too expensive to divorce the two parts now
| ctvo wrote:
| It's not too expensive, it's just not in Amazon's
| interest.
|
| Amazon made the decision to pivot to third party sellers
| because they realized how poorly being an actual online
| merchant scaled. Why get into that game when you can be
| the platform and vertically integrate everything from the
| listing to last mile delivery charging a fee every step
| of the way?
| clomond wrote:
| Hypothetically this is not a binary option, they could
| significantly ramp up the strictness of 3rd party sellers
| increasing the costs of making multiple, temporary fake
| seller accounts more challenging.
|
| That said though - this would clearly impact profits
| proportional to the level of strictness/barriers.
| colinmhayes wrote:
| Amazon retail's entire profit is from selling ads now.
| They'd really have to pivot their strategy if they got rid
| of third party sellers.
| antoniuschan99 wrote:
| It's true they are double dipping but a seller in some
| random video said they liked to have their listing show
| up twice to increase engagement. This is for an Etsy
| seller though so yea Etsy also does ads too
| treis wrote:
| I think I'd pay for a prime^2 membership for an Amazon
| without all of the bullshit.
| kranke155 wrote:
| You could just have an Amazon option where third party was
| not included. Just split the brand.
|
| The problem is they built it into the main UI with no care
| for distinction or customer appraisal of what is going on.
| And now they have this mess.
| antoniuschan99 wrote:
| Isn't Amazon all third party now though?
| didibus wrote:
| No, they sell a lot of their own stuff. Look for Sold by
| Amazon: https://www.howtogeek.com/695506/how-to-search-
| for-products-...
|
| They also have a bunch of their own brands:
| https://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=17728530011
| Spivak wrote:
| no third party = shopify eats their lunch
|
| Amazon's whole business is being the fulfillment for 3rd
| party sellers, you take away that you take away the whole
| reason people use it. If Amazon was just online 1st party
| Walmart they would sell almost nothing.
| Kerrick wrote:
| Even Walmart's website invited third party sellers.
| jessriedel wrote:
| Honest question: why not swiftly ban 3rd party merchants who
| do anything that is clearly unethical (e.g., changing product
| listed while keeping reviews from old product, or buying
| reviewers off to change their review). If it's an issue of
| whack-a-mole, ask new 3rd party sellers to post a modest
| bond. The bond earns interest, and gets returned after N
| months of good behavior, but gets forfeited if there is a
| clear ethics violation. Bond amount is proportional to number
| of items listed, and is set as small as possible to make bad
| behavior unprofitable.
|
| Also, Amazon customer service continues to be amazing for me.
| Refund basically anytime for any reason, instantly and fast.
| [deleted]
| brianwawok wrote:
| Bonds are an interesting idea. I think there is a similar
| idea for email (it cost 1 cent per email to send, refunded
| if the email isn't spam). I think it would keep a lot of
| small sellers off the platform, and the math must say it's
| better to play the wack-a-mole game.
| mbesto wrote:
| > It's extremely difficult to keep high data integrity of the
| Amazon catalog when all these 3rd parties are contributing
| information. It gets abused in every possible way.
|
| So you're saying this isn't a technical problem that can be
| solved by a technical solution?
|
| > It's all automated
|
| Well I think you found the problem then.
|
| Sears never had this issue because they have humans who do
| this. They also never had the scale that Amazon has achieved
| _because_ of those humans.
|
| This is Amazon's blindspot. I'm super bullish on $SHOP
| because of this.
| relueeuler wrote:
| At the end of the day, satisfying the customer is what
| matters. And customers are satisfied when their packages
| arrive quickly. $SHOP can't compete with that because it
| has taken $AMZN two decades to build out the logistical
| infrastructure to support fast delivery times. And now with
| Buy With Prime program, sellers can use $AMZN logistics as
| a service.
| redmen wrote:
| Shopify can partner with Walmart and others while it
| builds out its own. Amazon took that long because they
| were cutting through new territory. Now others can
| emulate them and shopify can buy those companies.
| pluc wrote:
| As long as there's a near-monopoly masquerading as market
| domination we will have those problems. Company excels enough
| to beat bloated dominant competitor until it becomes bloated
| itself and gets eaten by the next trendy disruptor. Shopify is
| already really close to it. It's the circle of life!
| ahmed_ds wrote:
| I think the future of Shopify would be aggregating selected
| best sellers themselves and trying to beat Amazon on a category
| per category basis from a single or multiple sites.
| seydor wrote:
| How is spotify going to avoid becoming another amazin?
| vishnugupta wrote:
| I guess it can't avoid that trap but time will tell. Funnily
| a big selling point of Amazon over EBay was SDP. Where as
| EBay would throw up hundreds of pages for a product Amazon
| would have just one. Ironically Amazon is now where EBay was
| 25 years ago. As someone commented above, it's all circle of
| life.
| redmen wrote:
| Because they have Joe Rogan.
| didibus wrote:
| I'd recommend you checkout Amazon's transparency service:
|
| https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency
|
| It lets manufacturers print a unique secret code on their
| products, and Amazon validates it when it enters and leaves
| their fulfillment centers. As a user, you can also validate it
| yourself using the Transparency app you can download from
| Google Play or the AppStore.
|
| That way you know you're not getting counterfeit.
|
| I think it's relatively new, so not a lot of manufacturers use
| it yet. And I don't think you can filter on transparency
| enabled products in the search yet either.
| zucked wrote:
| The consumer shouldn't have to parse whether or not their
| goods are genuine... that's squarely in the wheelhouse of the
| merchant. This is Amazon's problem to fix, don't you even for
| a second suggest foisting this onto the consumer.
| pkulak wrote:
| That sounds like a wonderful way to shift work to the
| customer. Holy smokes, does this mean that Amazon has totally
| given up on actually solving the problem? I'll order direct
| from the manufacturer long before I start cryptographically
| verifying all my deliveries.
| petra wrote:
| " Amazon scans each individual Transparency-enabled code to
| ensure that only authentic products are shipped."
| didibus wrote:
| It says they verify the codes when it enter and leaves
| their fulfillment centers as well, but if the seller was
| shipping direct to you, not using Amazon fulfillment,
| there's not much Amazon can do, so they let you check it
| yourself.
| sytelus wrote:
| This is not scalable. You are literally asking thousands of
| manufacturers to alter their manufacturing process. A much
| better way is to establish trust certificate. For example, if
| I want to sell something at Amazon and want to have
| "Verified" mark, I should submit my identification documents
| plus documents that establishes my relationship with
| manufacturers (ex "authorized dealers"). This is already done
| by many in real world and the question is just to bring it
| online.
| didibus wrote:
| They do something similar, see:
| https://www.amazonsellers.attorney/blog/what-invoices-
| amazon...
|
| Basically verifying your supply chain.
| nickff wrote:
| This sounds good, but is not a robust and reliable
| methodology. There are many problems including:
|
| - Some authorized resellers mix in counterfeits with real
| goods.
|
| - Other authorized resellers are only authorized to
| distribute certain items, but get others through 'shady'
| channels.
|
| - Some resellers will sell returned or repaired items.
|
| - Most resellers don't actually have time-limited deals.
|
| - Agreements lapse, and figuring out who is permitted to
| distribute what is complicated.
|
| - None of these measures are actually verifiable by the
| concerned consumer.
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > I'd recommend you checkout Amazon's transparency service:
|
| > https://brandservices.amazon.com/transparency
|
| Huh! This is pretty interesting, and it directly addresses
| the problem of inventory commingling that we've heard so much
| about.
|
| The program doesn't seem to be in a very functional state
| yet, though, and I see a fundamental issue with it.
|
| Products sold on Amazon do not indicate whether they are
| protected by the transparency program. (I checked for this by
| searching for the word "transparency" on the Cards Against
| Humanity product page - Cards Against Humanity is listed on
| the transparency program page as one of the brands enrolled
| in the program.[1]) This makes the program nearly useless to
| the customer. It could still be useful to the manufacturer,
| though, by preventing customers from receiving counterfeit
| products.
|
| The fundamental problem is that the counterfeits-on-Amazon
| problem arose in the first place due to Amazon's method of
| not caring which individual item came from which vendor.
| Their system enabled them to not keep track of the provenance
| of an item. And this new system seems to require them to
| track genuine items. If they're going to do that, they can
| already do it entirely on their own end of things.
|
| However, it does look like Amazon sees the transparency
| program as something to be implemented by _manufacturers_ and
| not by vendors. On that model, they 'd continue commingling
| everything like usual, and a vendor sending in a counterfeit
| item wouldn't be able to sell the item at all, as opposed to,
| say, selling it at a suspiciously low price and having their
| suspicious item reliably go to the same person who bought at
| the suspicious price. Amazon already tracks the identity of
| the item, so validity stamping by the manufacturer would fit
| into their system fairly seamlessly.
|
| [1] This is itself entirely useless to the customer. No one
| will ever care if they get a "counterfeit" version of a card
| game, as long as the content of the cards is the same.
| ale42 wrote:
| ... and Shopify stock goes down by 17% today... (not sure whether
| it's related or not)
| sleepyhead wrote:
| no, due to slow growth in Q1 and generic tech meltdown.
| no_wizard wrote:
| I been itching to work at Shopify for a little while now. This
| makes me even more excited for them! This should be interesting
| in how they are positioning themselves against the backdrop of
| Amazon and Walmart. Its strange to think that Shopify is almost
| the upstart against a giant like Walmart or Amazon in terms of
| capturing the retail end / customer experience side of things.
|
| I suppose its a strategy to diverse their commerce portfolio.
| mabbo wrote:
| We _are_ hiring. Full remote from almost anywhere worldwide.
| no_wizard wrote:
| Lets get in touch, if possible? If that is something you'd be
| open to doing anyways. email is in profile.
| ForTheWin98 wrote:
| Good luck getting through the process. Shopify HR is very
| slow. It was not pleasant dealing with them. I heard one
| reason for the slowness is that many HR employees have quit.
| d4mi3n wrote:
| I recently accepted an offer from Shopify and they did a
| reasonable job. 3 or 4 calls over 2 weeks, with an offer
| less than 3 days after my last call. Rates were very
| competitive for my roll and skillset.
|
| That said, they do seem to be going through--or have
| recently gone through--a fair amount of attrition due to
| declining stock prices. Not surprising given the stock
| situation and all, but definitely something to factor in if
| you're considering working there.
|
| EDIT: I'd also like to mention that it was a very humane
| interview process. I felt well treated, and they definitely
| seem to be screening more for successful employees than
| they are to filter out as many applicants as they can. Take
| that as you will, but I respect an org that treats it's
| employees well.
| JonathanBeuys wrote:
| marketplaces like Amazon have trained consumers to expect
| products delivered to their doorsteps within 1-2 days
|
| I am always surprised that delivery takes so long. Why does it
| have to take days?
|
| If I have a fleet of cars and/or bikes that constantly swarm out
| from my distribution center, why can't a delivery be done in
| hours or even minutes?
| SteveNuts wrote:
| Proximity to where the products are housed.
|
| Most companies, especially small ones don't do the volume
| required to make stockpiling enough products close to the
| consumer to make it worthwhile.
| JonathanBeuys wrote:
| But they are talking about _Amazon_. That is not a small
| company.
| Spivak wrote:
| Rephrased, individual merchants on Amazon don't move enough
| volume to have their products stocked at every warehouse on
| the planet. And the ones that do Amazon has started
| offering "tonight" delivery.
| tommoor wrote:
| This video is a good explainer:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qanMpnYsjk
| tyrfing wrote:
| Cost. I'll list some reasons why hours is often not possible.
|
| - Products can't always be fulfilled by the closest location.
| Especially for products that you can't assume infinite stock
| of, this is a big deal, but in general there is an incredibly
| long tail of things sold. Look around the sites of Target,
| Walmart, Home Depot, and similar, look at what's in stock
| where. It's not universal coverage, and Amazon has much lower
| density of locations as well as higher SKU counts. If an order
| is split across multiple locations, it would be cheaper but
| take longer to first combine them at one rather than deliver
| the parts separately.
|
| - Last-mile efficiency. Stops are clustered and dispatched
| together, which reduces labor time and mileage. The total cost
| of 10 spread out stops could easily be the same as 40 more
| tightly packed ones, and the second won't be an option if
| they're out for delivery within hours.
|
| - Labor efficiency. There are a lot of humans involved still,
| despite the best efforts of these companies, and a bit of
| latency allows for consistent utilization despite hour-to-hour
| and day-to-day changes.
|
| Lastly, delivery within hours _is_ offered. Walmart calls it
| Express Delivery, Amazon has Same-Day Delivery (as well as some
| 2 hour delivery), Target has Same Day Delivery. These are just
| premium services with limited selection because it 's expensive
| to do, and modern Free Shipping is an illusion of shipping
| being too cheap to price when it really isn't. It's cost
| optimizations all the way down and still not enough.
| [deleted]
| kadomony wrote:
| So is this why Shopify pays peanuts to their employees? For the
| big acquisitions?
| airstrike wrote:
| This is a tiny acquisition as a % of their market cap...
| boringg wrote:
| I haven't heard that Shopify underpays their employees .. What
| are you talking about?
|
| I know Amazon underpays their delivery people/warehouse.
| kadomony wrote:
| Shopify absolutely underpays its tech employees. It's often
| below market average, but they think the prestige of Shopify
| is akin to Google, so people will settle for less.
| boringg wrote:
| Can you define underpays its tech employees more
| specifically - salary or total comp?
|
| I mean they don't have the same capital as a company like
| Amazon/Google/Facebook so obviously can't go toe to toe if
| that's who you are comparing against. However Shopify's
| equity compensation aligns with Tesla (underpay but
| employees earn on equity) probably more than made up and
| then some compared to all those companies if you have
| worked there for more than one year. If you just joined
| then yeah your equity packages just tanked - as did all the
| major tech companies.
| dvdhnt wrote:
| Not OP but current employee.
|
| They "underpay" compared to Google, etc and compared to
| the Bay. But Shopify is a Canadian company first (I'm in
| the US) and they pay me a salary well over the average
| for my area (double), not much less than what I was
| offered by other remote companies (within ~$10k) but
| pushed north of $200k/yr by adding stock.
|
| We also recently received info on a new pay structure
| that basically lets us choose how much of our TC is $$$
| and how much is stock. We're excited and people will be
| given raises. There are news articles you can read
| online.
|
| Shopify also aims to be a "100 year" company. It means
| not paying in the top 10, but also not overworking
| employees or firing the bottom 10% every year.
|
| As someone who isn't in the Bay... they pay just fine for
| new hires and for tenured employees once they finish
| raises.
| shmatt wrote:
| As someone in the U.S market, they recruit for US/Canada
| agnostic but they pay the Canadian TC. So for people in
| the U.S who can pass an average big company/FAANGMULA
| interview loop, they always end up dead last in the offer
| TC
|
| I really can't speak for Canadians, but U.S engineers
| definitely need to take a potential pay cut to join the
| cul...erm company
| mherdeg wrote:
| Holey moley, we're down to $400/share - the time machine to 2020
| is complete. Is this a bargain yet? Can I buy it yet?
|
| I have really enjoyed the Shopify checkout experience as a
| customer.
| blantonl wrote:
| Take it from someone who was assigned 300 shares of SHOP @
| 1100/share, this hurts. It hurts bad.
| jfb wrote:
| upupandup wrote:
| that's $330,000 is now $150,000. What percentage of your
| portfolio was it? I never really understood what shopify was,
| it seemed like most of it were drop shippers and people
| thinking they can make $100 t-shirts.
|
| Especially after Citron Research came out with a damning
| report on inflation of metrics.
|
| I really don't get all the people cheering on Shopify in the
| comments for this acquisition when they are missing earnings
| by a huge margin and faces existential crisis...it's ngmi
| throwaway34957 wrote:
| Andrew Left's research methods were flawed to say the
| least, if they were even worthy of the word 'research'. A
| bit of Googling and then concluding the company is lying
| since he can't find all the Shopify stores. The FTC
| investigation he was so sure of never materialized and he
| deleted the video from https://citronresearch.com/citron-
| exposes-the-dark-side-of-s...
|
| Also, he promised to donate $200k if Shopify traded over
| $200 12 months later, which it did. Did he keep that
| promise after he pulled out?
| https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/shopify-shop-stock-
| price-s...
| jeromegv wrote:
| If you were working in e-commerce you'd know why millions
| of merchant use them, it's a good and easy software to use.
| They have tons of problems, like any company, but people
| are migrating TOWARDS shopify, not the other way around, in
| huge majority.
|
| Etsy, amazon, eBay, all missed earnings due to lower ecom
| growth after covid. People are cheering the product, not
| the stock price. Clearly those 2 are not always correlated
| (even if clearly they could do better)
| ineedasername wrote:
| I don't know about the others but Amazon missed things
| because of a $7B+ loss on Rivian investments. Otherwise
| their growth had slowed, but the actual core business is
| still growing.
|
| The Rivian investment is a bit of a head scratcher
| though. I get that electricity costs could bring down
| shipping costs vs. ICE vehicles, but they could order
| their 100,000 trucks without buying 20% of a business
| that's somewhat orthogonal to their core competency,
| which is definitively _not_ vehicle manufacturing. Sure
| they 're more of a logistics business than retailer at
| this point but owning a manufacturer... do they have big
| stakes in the established traditional manufacturers?
| blantonl wrote:
| It's about 10% now of my trading portfolio right now. I've
| been selling options on SHOP for the past few years since
| the premiums are high, but admittedly I got caught flat
| footed on this one. My cost basis in SHOP is much lower
| given the huge premiums I've collected over the past 2
| years.
|
| Never forget though, the premiums are/were high for a
| reason.
| mabbo wrote:
| I joined and got granted at 1560/share with Staff Dev share
| counts.
|
| If the comp changes don't really do a lot, I'm out roughly a
| 6-figure number per year (CAD).
| ShivShankaran wrote:
| With a valuation of around $12B, each Shopify share is a
| bargain at around $80 give or take few dollars
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