[HN Gopher] Togethr: Own Mastodon-compatible decentralized socia...
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       Togethr: Own Mastodon-compatible decentralized social network
       instance
        
       Author : MattJ100
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2022-05-05 12:43 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (togethr.party)
 (TXT) w3m dump (togethr.party)
        
       | colpabar wrote:
       | Off topic, but the whole "let's just remove the 'e' from a word
       | that ends in 'er'" naming trend needs to die.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | _hzw wrote:
       | I would rather run a Bookwyrm [0] instance.
       | 
       | [0]: https://github.com/mouse-reeve/bookwyrm
        
         | rrix2 wrote:
         | looks cool, but that's a totally different sort of user
         | experience that happens to use the same ActivityPub layer, no?
        
         | singpolyma3 wrote:
         | If there is interest in other formats and people are willing to
         | pay on our model for them we can likely add instance types for
         | things like this.
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | Cool, I like seeing more commercial vendors supporting Mastodon.
       | I support mastodon.social and use them [1].
       | 
       | I support Elon Musk buying Twitter and charging $2/month for a
       | verified account, etc., but I also love seeing a major uptake on
       | Mastodon-based decentralized services.
       | 
       | [1] https://mastodon.social/@mark_watson
        
       | yupyup54133 wrote:
       | Cool but I'd much rather see someone sell a little server box
       | where all I would need to do is plug it into my router and open
       | up a port.
       | 
       | IE: If we are going to decentralize with Mastodon-style software
       | lets actually decentralize the hardware used to host the system.
        
         | ay wrote:
         | You would still need the domain setup, etc... or would you be
         | happy to use your hardware and some free subdomain from
         | elsewhere ?
        
           | 0x0000000 wrote:
           | I think it's something that a vanity subdomain would be fine
           | for the base case, with an optional upsell for a custom
           | domain. The self-hosted box would need to have some way to
           | dynamically update DNS, as the average consumer doesn't have
           | a static IP.
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | You're not wrong. But, i feel that this type of (paid) offering
         | is the next best thing. What we need is many, many more paid
         | providers, which helps decentralize things a little at least
         | (and of course helps those less techie than some)...until your
         | proposed solution is more easily implementable by a greater
         | swath of the interested population.
        
           | js4ever wrote:
           | I believe it will come with time, we already have IPv6 and
           | microservers like Pi, but then users have to secure,
           | update,backup, monitor and upgrade the software and hardware
           | regularly ... There is no solution yet for that.
           | 
           | So it's definitely an easier solution to use a managed
           | service. BTW here is another Mastodon provider:
           | https://elest.io/open-source/mastodon
           | 
           | Disclaimer: I work there
        
           | harlanji wrote:
           | Exactly. The key is that it's a paid service. And it looks to
           | be based on Pleroma and they will export data and transfer
           | domains upon request. As long as it stays like that and
           | that's the bar across providers everyone wins.
        
         | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
         | Curious: sell at what price.
         | 
         | This is something I have thought about for many years. If we
         | have small form factor computers that sell for, say, $5-$25 why
         | not distribute pre-configured, free, open source servers on
         | well-understood hardware^1 instead of having to test on various
         | different hardware possibilities, not all of them well-
         | understood, or making assumptions about what hardware people
         | should have available. IMO, there is value in server
         | configuration. A purchaser could choose to compile and install
         | the software herself but having an example of a working
         | configuration can be invaluable. For me, good examples are
         | usually worth more than countless pages of verbose
         | documentation. The question I have is the dollar amount of that
         | value.
         | 
         | The example I have thought about in the past, rightly or
         | wrongly, is the WRT54G and what became OpenWRT. To me, focusing
         | on one item of hardware initially has advantages. That is
         | generally what vendors of off-the-shelf products do. Yet with
         | open source software, there is usually an expectation that it
         | must work on a variety of hardware, which is likely to make
         | things more complicated.
         | 
         | 1. I am not implying this has never been done or that it isn't
         | still happening.
        
           | tedunangst wrote:
           | If I sell you a computer for $5 and you email me questions
           | about how to configure DNS, what kind of reply are you
           | expecting?
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | neltnerb wrote:
         | What are the odds the router itself can act as a Mastodon
         | server with some external storage? I'm not sure how resource
         | intensive Mastodon is in practice.
        
           | singpolyma3 wrote:
           | Mastodon is _very_ RAM hungry. Not going to run on most
           | routers.
        
             | eloisant wrote:
             | It probably depends on the load? It's a Rails app AFAIK so
             | if the load is low (which is likely for a family or group
             | of friends) it should be able to run anywhere.
        
           | andrewzah wrote:
           | I don't think the average router would be able to run much of
           | anything, not to mention how insecure the average router is
           | since people don't update them.
           | 
           | Mastodon is very resource heavy, I couldn't get it to run on
           | a raspberry pi 3b. Pleroma is an alternative to mastodon that
           | is very light on resources, I'd recommend that personally.
        
             | singpolyma3 wrote:
             | I don't know that I'd call Pleroma "very light", but it's
             | very light compared to Mastodon for sure.
        
               | harlanji wrote:
               | I can easily run Pleroma on 1G VPS and Pi3s; the heaviest
               | part is the Postgres server, which can itself be tuned to
               | be pretty light. It relies on PG's native JSON data type
               | which is cool. I run a couple instances and poked around
               | with it for a few hours. I'd love to see SQLite support
               | in Pleroma given that it allegedly has JSON now; there is
               | a 2 year old ticket on their GitLab [1] mentioning it tho
               | I've not spiked in to see if it's 100% plausible to port.
               | Pleroma is written with Elixir that has a DB abstraction
               | library that supports SQLite, I was just looking into it
               | this week.
               | 
               | Even if SQLite JSON isn't sufficient it could be realized
               | with string columns for now, and indeed SQLite is
               | recommended by Library of Congress for archival storage
               | and used by iPhone so I think it's a solid way to expand
               | Pleroma even if native JSON is not sufficient.
               | 
               | If anyone wants to pay me to do this as open source I'd
               | jump, contact in bio. I don't know Elixir yet but am
               | motivated and have 15+ years of dev experience in all
               | kinds of systems, and experience in the adjacent parts.
               | 
               | 1.
               | https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/-/issues/1333
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | You can run Pleroma (with its database) on a raspberry pi
               | with 1GB RAM. A single-user instance of Mastodon will
               | require 8GB to run comfortably.
               | 
               | I think the main issue of Mastodon is that its search
               | completely reliant on elasticsearch, while Pleroma tries
               | to go by only with PostgreSQL FTS?
        
         | clankyclanker wrote:
         | Looks like the Freedombox.org folks are shipping that now, for
         | EUR70:
         | 
         | https://freedombox.org/buy/
        
         | singpolyma3 wrote:
         | I would love to do this, but it's a lot more work to maintain
         | that kind of thing for most users. At least with Togethr we let
         | you choose from many different data centres so the instances
         | won't all be in the same place.
        
         | rglullis wrote:
         | What you want is achievable with https://dappnode.io
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | Helm looks pretty cool although it's expensive and they only
         | have two apps (email and OwnCloud):
         | https://thehelm.com/products/helm-personal-server-v2
        
         | kornhole wrote:
         | I have Mastodon, mail, XMPP, Coturn, and Nextcloud instances
         | all running on a single Raspberry PI setup quite easily thanks
         | to yunohost.org. They have ISO's for just about any hardware or
         | a VPS.
         | 
         | Hostman and Mastohost are among the other managed hosters of
         | fediverse instances.
        
       | throwaway15908 wrote:
       | Wouldn't it be feasible to replace this "get your own domain"
       | part just by letting tor doing the lookup for some introduced
       | .onion site. My reasoning is, that this could get much faster
       | adoption rates and/but is also self hosted on a single client
       | device.
        
         | singpolyma3 wrote:
         | The benefit of giving people free domains is they work already
         | with the fediverse we have and make more sense to regular folk
         | than onion names.
        
       | packetlost wrote:
       | Why would I want this over something like mastodon.social or
       | SDF's Mastodon? $7/month seems very steep for what amounts to the
       | ability to have a custom domain and admin responsibility.
        
         | ultimape wrote:
         | This appears to be a managed hosting provider offering access
         | to a pleroma instance underneath, not a software package.
        
           | packetlost wrote:
           | That's sort of my point. Managed hosting is exactly what I
           | get for free from SDF (or mastodon.social), so what's the
           | benefit?
        
             | masukomi wrote:
             | _you_ don't get managed hosting from mastodon.social the
             | site owner does (if they used a service like this). You
             | just get an account that someone else manages the
             | infrastructure beneath.
             | 
             | This gives you your own instance, which in addition to
             | using your own domain, means you can can set the rules of
             | the server (what kind of speech is and isn't allowed), you
             | can boot people you don't want. You can control who gets
             | in. you can control what other servers are blocked (i
             | assume that is an option in pleroma too).
        
             | qznc wrote:
             | Your own domain?
        
             | ruined wrote:
             | you get to set your own federation rules, and perform your
             | own moderation.
        
               | singpolyma3 wrote:
               | And switch to self-hosting or another hosting company
               | whenever you want, never need to change your address
               | because you own the domain. Control and freedom.
               | 
               | Also support from humans who are paid to support you.
        
             | mark_l_watson wrote:
             | I agree, but I was concerned if mastodon.social was
             | sufficiently funded so I started giving them a tiny amount
             | of money every month.
             | 
             | I suppose it would be good to have Mastodon on my own
             | domain, but I really don't care that much (I have had my
             | website on my own domain for 30+ years).
        
             | jgfrgcss wrote:
             | A clear business model and alignment of interests, as a
             | customer. Also no lock in since the customer owns their
             | domain.
             | 
             | How is SDF funded? How can anyone be certain it will
             | continue to be funded, if it offers a service gratis that
             | costs the provider money to operate? Is that funding source
             | aligned with my beliefs and interests? These are questions
             | you don't have when you just pay for things.
             | 
             | Another example: I use FastMail with a custom domain. Yes,
             | I could just use Gmail, but I don't, for the reasons listed
             | above.
        
               | the_common_man wrote:
               | But you can't use Gmail with a custom domain for free. I
               | bet that's a decision point
        
               | TurkTurkleton wrote:
               | You can't use Fastmail for free at all, custom domain or
               | no.
        
               | the_common_man wrote:
               | Yes. But what I am saying is since gmail becomes paid for
               | custom domains, you _then_ decide, you might as well pay
               | someone else.
        
               | entropicdrifter wrote:
               | SDF has been a self-sustaining non-profit since the 80's.
               | I'm much more skeptical of a newcomer than of them,
               | personally
        
         | riffic wrote:
         | obviously it't not for you.
         | 
         | perhaps there is another end user in mind (like
         | groups/organizations)
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-05 23:01 UTC)