[HN Gopher] Making friends on the internet
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       Making friends on the internet
        
       Author : jborichevskiy
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2022-05-03 00:18 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jon.bo)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jon.bo)
        
       | rejectfinite wrote:
       | Twitter?? I have more luck with Discord servers. Where people
       | actually chat.
        
       | EZ-Cheeze wrote:
       | The internet should be making friends for us.
       | 
       | Find me everyone who GETS ME. I want a thousand or more
        
         | dt3ft wrote:
         | I'd be okay with just one :)
        
           | EZ-Cheeze wrote:
           | But think about it - humans will be able to do qualitatively
           | new things with thousands of friends each
           | 
           | I was recommended The Affinities while posting about this
           | before and currently have read halfway through. It explores
           | that question quite well so far
        
         | jborichevskiy wrote:
         | Love your website!!
        
           | EZ-Cheeze wrote:
           | Welcome to my friend group
           | 
           | Today's idea for it: friend group multiplayer with increasing
           | numbers required to form a team - everyone continuously
           | invites +1
           | 
           | Lets all the friend groups smear and grow exponentially
        
       | jackallis wrote:
       | i would like a friend who is comfortable being vulnerable with me
       | and viceversa.Idk how social media provides that.
        
       | djhworld wrote:
       | One thing I really miss about the modern web is forums.
       | 
       | I'm in my 30s now but grew up on the web, from 1998 - so not
       | exactly an old timer but enough to ride the wave of web 1.0 ->
       | 2.0.
       | 
       | I made loads of friends on forums in those days. Sadly most of
       | those forums died off as time has gone by. One still exists
       | though but there's only a handful of us left, it's extremely rare
       | to get a new member.
       | 
       | I know these days everyone uses Discord or Slack or whatever the
       | one is the rust people use (zulip?) but chat isn't the same as
       | forums.
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | I run a forum for exactly this reason. Small communities are
         | the way forward.
         | 
         | You (or anyone reading this) can find it in my profile.
        
         | mjevans wrote:
         | Some of us still use IRC. We wait for the true successor. An
         | open protocol, a secure protocol. That which will subsume even
         | email and provide the answer to all the problems we know.
        
       | sebmellen wrote:
       | Hey Jon! We're friends (followers-of-one-another...?) on Twitter.
       | Super cool to see a post from you here. Small world!
       | 
       | I'll take this as an opportunity to 'send that dm / email / offer
       | to connect'. Going to send you a message on Twitter.
        
       | schlagetown wrote:
       | Good post, a lot rings true in my experience! Twitter is a
       | uniquely good place to meet people, though it requires a lot of
       | work and calibration to use successfully, and it takes practice
       | to be yourself in a public broadcast medium. But I feel like
       | curating a quality follows list and interacting with people you
       | like online has very high ROI. And it's worth taking the
       | initiative -- asking good questions, planning casual events,
       | proposing ideas for collaboration -- even if not everything pans
       | out, it's about increasing the surface area for serendipity,
       | opening up more possible paths, planting seeds...
        
         | jborichevskiy wrote:
         | Hey Brendan!
         | 
         | > even if not everything pans out, it's about increasing the
         | surface area for serendipity, opening up more possible paths,
         | planting seeds
         | 
         | Well said. Like taking daily walks in a neighborhood, getting
         | to know the rhythms of a place and bumping into whoever else
         | might be wandering around. Eventually magic happens!
        
       | kowlo wrote:
       | Not sure what it's like now, but over a decade ago I made "online
       | friends" on online games. Those were great times... Legend of Mir
       | 2, Phantasy Star Online, Gunbound, even WoW!
        
         | sleepycatgirl wrote:
         | I am still making friends online, so Imma write my experience
         | too: In MWO, I saw someone with interesting username, that was
         | sole reason to start chat with them, then later got invite to
         | Discord server, And there I met more people, and made like 3
         | good friends,
         | 
         | In World of Warships... It was mostly: Find clan -> Join
         | discord -> Chat -> Potentially find people you vibe well with
         | -> Friends
         | 
         | So yeah... a bit of discord focus there.. But still, some
         | friends I made, were over steam, via TF2 or Garry's mod, and
         | considering those are still alive, definitely still possible,
         | 
         | Tbh I still have yet to try MMO
         | 
         | Twitter... Feels a bit different. I find someone I vibe with,
         | we interact with each other, but usually... it tends to feel,
         | at best, something that has to be yet a friendship, but not
         | reaching friendship itself at all? Hard to tell.
        
       | thdc wrote:
       | In my opinion, the answer has always been to participate in group
       | activities that cover something you're interested in, as it gives
       | an easy starting point to begin a friendship. For me, it is
       | either games or certain coding niches.
       | 
       | As a non-user of Twitter, I don't think its organization is
       | conducive to easily finding friends - instead of focused
       | individual communities, I believe it is more free-form (?) as a
       | result of "the algorithm" determining your interests. Which could
       | be considered a plus because of discovery as noted in the
       | article.
       | 
       | I do see how you could extrapolate similar interests from other
       | users based on their tweets or replies and bootstrap a friendship
       | from that as the author mentions (kind of risky when dealing with
       | anonymized opinions about controversial topics or just straight
       | up lies), but it seems like much more work compared to
       | participating in a group which you know already shares that
       | interest.
       | 
       | To summarize, finding friends on Twitter is kind of like shooting
       | in the dark.
       | 
       | However I initially missed the main point of the post because it
       | was stuck towards the bottom after the list.
       | 
       | > translat(ing) these (online connections) into offline
       | connections.
       | 
       | So now my question is why do you need to make your online
       | connections offline? I have good friendships that are ongoing for
       | years with people that I've only met online and have never felt
       | the need to meet them offline. Note that I don't consider setting
       | up an irl meeting online then meeting them irl as "making friends
       | on the internet" unless I have been regularly interacting for a
       | while already in somewhat private circumstances (like daily
       | casual talk or playing games together).
        
         | jborichevskiy wrote:
         | > So now my question is why do you need to make your online
         | connections offline?
         | 
         | I don't believe it a necessity, and there are some online
         | friends I probably won't be able to meet for a while, if ever.
         | 
         | But I enjoy moving a conversation offline because no online
         | interface can replicate wandering between parks in Los Angeles
         | and having pizza slices together. Though interfaces can still
         | allow plenty of unique forms of expression -- just vastly
         | different from embodied exploration and reacting to the world
         | together.
         | 
         | > To summarize, finding friends on Twitter is kind of like
         | shooting in the dark.
         | 
         | Aptly put. Not unlike dating apps or applying to jobs or
         | talking to strangers at bars. It's just one additional avenue
         | for meeting people.
         | 
         | You mention the separation between individuals getting
         | algorithmically sorted and interest-based topics. In my
         | experience I find twitter to be both: emergent scenes or
         | corners form by a bunch of independent actors interacting with
         | one another regularly, even though not all are following one
         | another. The edges are fuzzy and overlapping but they have much
         | more "placeness" than an endless feed, even if it is in fact
         | experienced through a feed.
        
       | codybrown wrote:
       | soulful post. for all the hell/chaos of twitter, it's still the
       | equivalent of OkCupid for meaningful friendships.
        
       | avgDev wrote:
       | The problem with Twitter, and other social media where people use
       | their real name and photo is that in fact people are NEVER going
       | to be themselves. People want to show their best to the world. I
       | don't want to meet 'Yes' friends or 'always positive' friends.
       | Social media is fake. There is no way around it. LinkedIn is fake
       | and disgusting, looking at my feed for a second when I'm
       | responding to recruiters makes me want to vomit.
       | 
       | I have known people who were going through divorces, abusive
       | relationships and major life issues, all while their social media
       | feeds were showing how great everything is going.
       | 
       | The only 'REAL" people I met online were either focused
       | niche/small subreddits or gaming communities. As you build trust
       | you learn more and more about their real life, good and bad.
       | Growing up I met a girl who was going through chemo treatment and
       | could not leave her home due to all the severe side effects. This
       | was in one of the gaming communities. I really enjoyed her
       | company and it really opened my eyes. Internet was/is an amazing
       | place, I was able to really connect with someone who normally
       | would not open up to strangers. In the end, I didn't really know
       | her IRL, maybe that is why she was able to open up and be direct
       | about sharing her thoughts about suffering, life and death. I
       | have not been able to connect with anyone like this IRL, is it me
       | that doesn't seem trustworthy or approachable?
        
         | jfim wrote:
         | > The problem with Twitter, and other social media where people
         | use their real name and photo is that in fact people are NEVER
         | going to be themselves. People want to show their best to the
         | world.
         | 
         | The currently trending social media app for younger generations
         | is BeReal, which basically prompts everyone to take a selfie at
         | the same time of the day, with a two minute timer to do so. No
         | filters, and it shows the image from both cameras.
         | 
         | It's somewhat refreshing to see people on the bus, cooking,
         | laying on the couch playing video games, or doing all kinds of
         | other mundane things as opposed to a perfectly manicured feed.
         | It's not amenable to making new connections due to it not
         | allowing messages between unconnected users, and it's not clear
         | if it's just a fad, but it's a somewhat welcome change in the
         | space.
        
           | rejectfinite wrote:
           | > The currently trending social media app for younger
           | generations is BeReal
           | 
           | Never heard this in my entire life.
           | 
           | And it would just be mu computer screen and my face.
        
             | avgDev wrote:
             | SQL tables/crappy code and my sad face.
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | > I have not been able to connect with anyone like this IRL
         | 
         | Perhaps learn to be non-judgemental, and learn to show that
         | too. Social status signalling and ranking prevents most people
         | from being honest. To learn how you could try: (1) to have
         | friends that are non-judgemental and model your behaviour from
         | them, (2) hang out in places where status is less important and
         | honesty is more valued. This has worked for me, even though I
         | am not a good listener and have some other social deficits.
         | Note that it is very tricky to train yourself to be non-
         | judgemental: our social ranking and signalling is hidden from
         | ourselves in so many of our behaviours.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | For years I have wanted to make a profile on some of the big
         | social networks that were intentionally (for comedic purposes)
         | the absolute WORST I could possibly make myself out to be. My
         | profile photo could be me in a torn up 3 piece suit passed out
         | in a bush - my job something ridiculously awful - etc etc
        
         | Nuzzerino wrote:
         | > The only 'REAL" people I met online were either focused
         | niche/small subreddits or gaming communities.
         | 
         | I've found gaming communities (and I've been in many) to be
         | excessively toxic. You can meet good people there, but I've
         | found it's not worth the headache.
        
           | TrevorJ wrote:
           | Really depends on the type of game. Niche minecraft servers
           | often have great communities. Small games that aren't PVP
           | focused can be great. FFXIV has some great communities as
           | well. It's definitely out there, but you gotta know where to
           | look.
        
           | avgDev wrote:
           | I do agree with your observation. It is generally difficult
           | to find a non-toxic gaming community. This was actually a
           | battlefield group, which brought a lot of older folk. In the
           | 20 years of gaming (jesus, can't believe it has been that
           | long). I have only found a few good communities.
        
           | BlargMcLarg wrote:
           | Some are toxic, some are cliquey, some are too established to
           | do anything in. If it isn't a PvP game, odds are you missed
           | the boat if you don't hop on in the first 1-2 weeks of its
           | introduction (or for MMOs / games with long lifespans, a
           | major patch), or you have to really stand out in something
           | (skill, fanart, whatever).
           | 
           | I like games, but the ease of getting into a community is
           | nowhere near as low as some people like to sell it as.
           | _Especially_ today. Even if they aren 't toxic in the obvious
           | sense, it often feels like a minefield navigating these
           | communities without upsetting someone, getting dogpiled or
           | anything.
        
           | Teknoman117 wrote:
           | The only ones I've really been fond of are groups where the
           | members are also mostly in-person friends as well. So
           | everyone knows what the others are truly like.
           | 
           | To be honest, maybe it's a terrible idea, but I do try to
           | bring my "real self" to the internet and not some crafted
           | personality. I never put up anything I wouldn't tell someone
           | in person. I don't act different than I do in person.
        
             | LambdaTrain wrote:
             | I do not think this is a terrible idea. Games such as
             | league of legends feel dramatically different when I play
             | with friends in real life.
             | 
             | One strange thing is that as my age grows my preference for
             | multiplayer game changes from "competitive" to "coop".
        
           | xboxnolifes wrote:
           | Toxicity seems to correlate with size of the gaming
           | community. I rarely have any issues when I join sub-groups to
           | an interest, but trying to have casual conversation in a
           | major subreddit/discord for a game is impossible.
        
             | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
             | I've always had a feeling that toxicity is a function of
             | community size.
             | 
             | Like in small online communities, you get to know the
             | trolls and it's oddly endearing. You see their personality
             | and everybody gets to know them and their trolling doesn't
             | even derail discussion at that point it just makes everyone
             | laugh.
             | 
             | Truly toxic individuals can also be booted. When a
             | community reaches a certain size there is just an
             | unrelenting deluge of anonymous trolls and toxic
             | individuals, nobody can keep up.
        
           | unity1001 wrote:
           | PVP related communities tend to be like that and there is
           | little way to get around that. And I say that as a person who
           | ran such communities.
           | 
           | Try RP gaming communities. By that I don't mean that hardcore
           | RP communities or anywhere you have to do actual RP. Just the
           | 'RP' tag in a mmo server weeds out assholes, pricks etc and
           | ensures that there is a high age average in the server. The
           | Wow Eu RP server I have been playing for years keeps getting
           | 'immigrants' from US servers and PVP servers all the time.
           | They escape the aggressive and toxic environments by moving
           | to RP servers. They don't do RP, they just play and join
           | raids and other activities.
        
         | caymanjim wrote:
         | Is this really any different from other social interactions? We
         | all have different selves we present to our families,
         | coworkers, social club associates, exercise groups, bar
         | buddies, significant others. Your comment seems to imply that
         | there's a binary "real person" and "Twitter person", and it's
         | never been that simple. We wear many hats and many faces. All
         | social interaction is compartmentalized.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | The difference is in orders of magnitude. The term 'breaking
           | bread" comes to mind. People have been sharing meals and
           | playing games with each other since time immemorial, because
           | you can see their personality shine through in real time in
           | doing activities together, than you can via simple
           | correspondence where people can collect their thoughts and
           | put forward the personality they want to simulate online.
           | 
           | IRL you can't fake it forever.
        
         | jrm4 wrote:
         | Takes like this sound to me like:
         | 
         | "The problem with visiting New York City is that everyone you
         | meet is fake."
         | 
         | One case see how someone could easily come away with that
         | impression, but also, it's just silly on its face. It's all
         | just going to be highly dependent on "the how," and frankly,
         | also luck.
        
       | lampshades wrote:
       | I miss AIM.
        
       | jarenmf wrote:
       | I made a lot of friends on IRC and internet forums a long time
       | ago. It is much easier when you are anonymous and be truly
       | yourself. I miss these communities nowadays and can't really find
       | a replacement.
        
         | holler wrote:
         | I just did a Show HN for an anonymous public chat social site
         | in dev https://sqwok.im
        
         | nanomonkey wrote:
         | I would suggest some of the decentralized (non-corporate owned)
         | social platforms like Matrix, Scuttlebutt, Mastodon, Gemini,
         | Hypercore (DAT/Beaker Browser).
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | +1 for Matrix and Mastodon, might wanna check out Libera too.
           | IRC is never coming back in the way we remembered it, but
           | there's still plenty of online communities that are living
           | out their individual Eternal Septembers.
        
       | zackmorris wrote:
       | I wonder how VR will change this.
       | 
       | I got into tech as a teenager in the 90s because I was such an
       | introvert and it felt like a way to game the system and maybe
       | meet girls or avoid having to get an actual job.
       | 
       | Hah. Waking up every day in this bizarro world of endless
       | overwork just to survive while some other geek wins it all and
       | disappoints humanity has gotten stale. And even with all of this
       | connectedness, people often feel more separated than ever. Like
       | everything I ever wanted came to pass in a corrupted fashion.
       | 
       | So far VR is one of the few things that I consider a tentative
       | cure for depression. I think it's because shifting out of this
       | reality is pretty much guaranteed to feel better than staying at
       | this point. So maybe VR will end up being the internet that I
       | thought this one was going to be.
        
         | jrm4 wrote:
         | I kind of feel like "roughly as much as MMORPGs slash Pokemon
         | Go slash Fortnite?" I can't see how it would end up too
         | differently from those.
        
       | andrewmcwatters wrote:
       | I feel like the structures engineers design in the tech world
       | sort of work against making friends in some ways by emphasizing
       | certain aspects of the software we use away from people. lin83's
       | comment here about enforced behaviors rings true to me.
       | 
       | My experience with the regression of social interaction enforced
       | by software is the lack of server browsers in video games.
       | Matchmaking is such crap. Kids don't even really get to
       | experience local multiplayer, but to make things worse, you can't
       | often find servers online and establish making yourself a regular
       | with some people on a dedicated server much anymore.
        
         | bluefirebrand wrote:
         | At one point in time, MMOs were considered very social, since
         | all interactions had to basically be done in person via
         | chatting.
         | 
         | Nowadays you just hop in the dungeon finder, get hucked in with
         | some random people who may not even be from your server but
         | only from your sata center, who you will never see again.
         | 
         | The social aspect of games really has diminished.
        
       | evocatus wrote:
       | > it starts with twitter
       | 
       | No thanks. If this is the state of socialization in an era where
       | online discourse is controlled by private interests with "agile"
       | ethics, and people are too afraid to socialize in real life for a
       | growing number of reasons, I'll deepen my mastery of hermitage.
        
         | lin83 wrote:
         | I'm just as cynical.
         | 
         | > I've been on the internet since I was 14 (11 years ago).
         | 
         | The author is young. They weren't around to remember the early
         | internet or life without it. Their childhood/adolescence is
         | corporate controlled, algorithm driven websites like Youtube
         | and Facebook. Their outlook as an "Internet native" has been
         | shaped by the enforced behaviours of sites like Twitter.
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Back in my day, we'd harass the people we admired on Freenode
         | until they gave us their email address!
        
         | r29vzg2 wrote:
         | > attend offline events! Be adventerous Meeting in-person is
         | harder but increases the intimacy and richness of
         | communication. Combine an offline meetup with a walk through a
         | park or a museum for maximum serendipity.
         | 
         | Clearly you missed this part of post.
        
         | historia_novae wrote:
         | Yes, probably the saddest thing I read this week. Self-
         | promotion on twatter and HN is different than forming
         | friendship. The goold old days of fora was way better to make
         | friends from the internet IMO. Nowadays everything seems to be
         | a link aggregator which fundamentally change how people
         | interact with each other.
         | 
         | Also it may be more an academic thing, but cold emailing is a
         | good way to make contact. Not necessarily friends thought it
         | can happen but at least it can make projects advance, with very
         | little (public) noise.
        
           | Taylor_OD wrote:
           | > The goold old days
           | 
           | Okay. But those days are gone. So what do you expect OP and
           | folks growing up today to do? Shy of time travel they cant
           | live the childhood you did and experience the magical
           | internet of the ~90's.
           | 
           | Maybe their version is just as good to them as yours was to
           | you?
        
             | nanomonkey wrote:
             | There are still plenty of decentralized (non-corporate
             | owned) social platforms like Matrix, Scuttlebutt, Mastadon,
             | Gemini to experiment with, set up for your own community or
             | meet people and make friends online.
        
             | psyc wrote:
             | Those days are not gone. Forums mated with IRC and became
             | Discord.
        
               | Taylor_OD wrote:
               | Uh I guess? Wasnt the point thought that companies are
               | shaping the online experience more now than in the past?
               | Discord may be less moderated than most (although the
               | controversies section of their wiki page is longer than
               | any other section) but that seems to be more of a bug
               | than a feature. Eventually the big acquisition or IPO
               | will come and then the moderation will follow.
        
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       (page generated 2022-05-04 23:01 UTC)