[HN Gopher] Square-Enix sells all of its Western game studios an...
___________________________________________________________________
Square-Enix sells all of its Western game studios and their games
to Embracer
Author : zdw
Score : 218 points
Date : 2022-05-02 15:21 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| MikusR wrote:
| This deal is 300m for multiple studios + IP. Microsoft paid 100m
| for a year long exclusive of a single Tomb Raider game.
| baud147258 wrote:
| well, if Embracer can get the same deal on the next TR game,
| they'd be able to recoup some of their investment
| tandr wrote:
| Western... Didn't they own the first or second "Dune" game?
| speeder wrote:
| First Dune game owner is Virgin, currently owned by EA Second
| Dune game owner is Westwood, currently owned by EA
|
| So... no.
| munk-a wrote:
| Do you mean Westwood Dune?
| ddingus wrote:
| Man, I just want more of tye big world FF 7 through 12 type
| games.
|
| Anyone doing titles like that anymore?
|
| My wife and I really enjoy a big one and will play one all the
| way through. Miss that type of experience.
|
| The MMO is completely uninteresting and addictive as hell from
| what I see can happen to players.
| ilikecakeandpie wrote:
| Checkout titles like Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default
| series maybe?
| ddingus wrote:
| I will. Thanks!
| falcolas wrote:
| The Embracer Group's portfolio is becoming scary big. They're
| really scooping up development studios left and right. I
| appreciate that they're not doing much with them right now, but
| it makes me concerned for the future.
| Macha wrote:
| Tencent, Embracer and Microsoft. The industry definitely feels
| like it's consolidating into fewer players.
| alliao wrote:
| perhaps Japanese game execs are getting ready for the future
| battle with MSFT gates is probably still after nintendo
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Perfect. I miss Japanese Squaresoft
| vmception wrote:
| How much they need to sell before Square becomes Squaresoft
| again?
| SllX wrote:
| Well this is a good start but they'd need to lose Enix and
| Taito too.
| Sakos wrote:
| They'd also have to lose people like Nomura and Kitase.
| houli wrote:
| Nomura has been around since at least FF5, and Kitase
| before that. Long before the Enix merger
| Sakos wrote:
| Yes, but it's only after Sakaguchi left (and with the SE
| merger) that they had full creative and management
| control of the big Japanese projects. The FF13 era was a
| massive disaster and they've never really recovered from
| that.
|
| Nomura was literally just a monster designer on FF5. I
| have no idea how it's relevant that he was the monster
| designer on FF5 to what he's done to the company in a
| leadership role in the past 20 years.
| vmception wrote:
| Anything to prevent people from redefining the word remake
| swarnie wrote:
| I'd be interesting to see the full list of IP they've sold.
|
| The article only gives three examples, one game I've never heard
| of, one recycled shooter from the 2000s and then there is Tomb
| raider - a series with twenty instalments, already milked to dust
| for pre-sequels, squeals and reboots more times then seems fair.
|
| Clearly someone thinks they can squeeze a few more dollars out of
| people here but personally im not seeing it.
| egypturnash wrote:
| If you are curious, the game you've never heard of is
| definitely in the realm of "cult classic".
|
| The Legacy of Kain series is flawed in many ways; its reach
| exceeds its grasp in every installment, but there is a _lot_ of
| solid vampire angst in between the places where the budget ran
| out. When it comes together it's _great_ IMHO.
|
| Start with _Soul Reaver_ , where you are a vampire who is
| killed in the opening cinematic, then resurrected as a Double
| Vampire who eats vampire souls in a dying world while railing
| against your Inevitable Doomed Destiny. Which, just so you
| know, is not resolved until Soul Reaver 2. Which IMHO you
| should play before either of the Kain games if you enjoy Soul
| Reaver.
|
| These games are _goth as fuck_. If you do not have an inner
| goth then it's probably going to feel like a bunch of
| pretentious whiny shit. But if you have an inner goth, she will
| _eat this series up_. My inner goth is quietly vibrating and
| squealing at this tiny, vague possibility of more Legacy of
| Kain.
| jerf wrote:
| I can't speak for the intention of the purchaser, but in their
| position I'd be looking to just unlock the teams. My impression
| of Square-Enix is that they've frankly just never been a
| company comfortable with being international, and it has shown
| for a very long time now. Just let the teams go produce
| something without the Eastern and Western design, management,
| marketing... heck, nearly _all_ the philosophies clashing and
| producing much less than the sum of the parts.
|
| (Since I know how things work nowadays, I'm not saying the
| philosophies necessarily intrinsically clash or that they can't
| be reconciled by _other_ entities, just that to my eye, Square-
| Enix _in particular_ is a company with a multi-decade track
| record of failing to do so.)
| morelisp wrote:
| Specifically, this is Enix. Square had a considerably more
| international outlook and viewpoint, but even a lot of that
| seems to have been squeezed out since the merger.
|
| You can look at the spun-off/second-party studios to see -
| from Square Monolith and AlphaDream consistently pushing
| formal boundaries of the JRPG, vs. from Enix tri-Ace's
| extremely conservative approach to Star Ocean and... I can't
| think of any other studios.
| bentcorner wrote:
| Eidos Montreal's recent work with Guardian's of the Galaxy is
| really well done and I think overshadowed by the absolute
| failure of Crystal Dynamic's Marvel Avengers game.
|
| I think they'd succeed with a GotG 2 or another 3rd-person
| action adventure game with a different IP.
| tenebrisalietum wrote:
| VR Tomb Raider would be neat.
| Arrath wrote:
| Ah yes I can look down and see the branch sticking out of my
| stomach, or the bear trap around my ankle.
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| The three Crystal Dynamics Tomb Raider games sold 38 million
| units, so probably something like a billion in revenue. Plus
| whatever value in Film/TV income, plus some decent mobile
| games. They can probably recoup the cost with effective
| management of Tomb Raider, and then the other IP is where they
| can mine for some value and make the deal look good. They got
| two great AAA studios with Crystal Dynamics and Eidos Montreal.
| One Tomb Raider game + one Deus Ex/Thief/Legacy of Kain Reboot
| + 50 game back catalog remaster/re-release is a solid strategy.
| mehlmao wrote:
| The newer Tomb Raider games were all very heavily discounted
| soon after launch. I think I paid ~$10 for each of them
| within a year of them coming out.
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| Hell, the Epic store gave them all away free not that long
| ago.
| cinntaile wrote:
| Are they preparing for getting acquired by Sony or what?
| devmor wrote:
| At current TSE prices it'd cost Sony at least 5% of their
| entire market cap to acquire SE so I think we'd hear a bit more
| about it if something like that were in the works. A trillion
| yen is nothing to sneeze at.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| Sony did invest close to or exactly $1B into Fornite last
| month. It wasn't stated outright but they were one of two
| main investors with the Lego parent company investing $1 of
| $2B raised.
|
| Though yeah an SE acquisition would be a far bigger deal even
| without being over 5x as much.
| adra wrote:
| Gotta kill the only wildly successful Metaverse company...
| ROBLOX!
| WorldMaker wrote:
| My bet is that this is a more useful maneuver for getting
| acquired by Microsoft than Sony in the current marketplace.
| Microsoft doesn't need much more "Western IP" (not after
| Bethesda), but everyone knowns Microsoft needs a much bigger
| Asian IP footprint as the last big hole in their "global"
| catalog.
| talideon wrote:
| Cool! I like Nordic/Embracer.
| Melatonic wrote:
| If they can release new Deus Ex game that keeps the spirit and
| best aspects of the first games, uses the best of Cyberpunk 2077,
| and a dash of the amazingness that was Prey we could have an
| absolutely EPIC game.
| gundamdoubleO wrote:
| Hopefully a new Deus Ex game might be a possibility again.
| TillE wrote:
| The thing about Deus Ex is that there's nothing particularly
| special about the "IP". Anybody could make a near-future
| cyberpunk conspiracy-oriented immersive sim, and call it
| whatever.
|
| The modern Deus Ex games were really average, and (as detailed
| in the recent hbomberguy video) failed to grasp the key
| principles of level design that are required to make games like
| that work.
| jameshart wrote:
| > Anybody could make a near-future cyberpunk conspiracy-
| oriented immersive sim
|
| Pretty sure CD Projekt disproved that theory
| paulryanrogers wrote:
| Hard disagree. While newer DX games are simpler and more
| accesible in some ways they are still great playgrounds. Old
| games may have had fewer loading screens but their jank
| wasn't worth some of the more subtle bits that weren't
| carried forward.
| smcl wrote:
| It's true that you can make an immersive-sim without the
| "Deus Ex" title, but over the course of four games they've
| built a sort of cohesive universe and storyline and many
| people - myself included - would really like to revisit that
| universe. DXHR and DXMD weren't the same as the original, but
| I didn't get the feeling that they were trying to reproduce
| it. I think they wanted to do a sort something in the same
| _style_ but in a way that appealed to a broader group of
| people, so it was necessarily simplified (and hamstrung
| further by being the first game the studio made, the Eidos
| /Squenix turmoil and finally the rush to deliver).
|
| HBomberguy's video hammered on a few points to deliberately
| make it seem more stupid than it was, and he knows it because
| he pulls back and calls the game "fine". I have a fairly
| unique perspective on this because by pure chance I'd played
| through all the Deus Ex games in the months before the HBG
| video dropped so I had an _extremely_ fresh perspective on
| it. I 'd also played through the original Deus Ex as a kid so
| I got to experience it when it was new and shiny. The video
| is _very_ careful about emphasising DXHR 's weak points while
| downplaying or ignoring many of the original's issues (or
| flat-out _lying_ about them). The latter two entries in the
| series were troubled for sure, but they were more than
| "fine".
|
| Edit: Actually I just remembered I wrote up a list of issues
| with the review because my friends were talking it and I
| wanted to share them in a way that didn't blast a wall of
| text in the group chat. So just in case you're curious what
| specifically I meant you can check it out here (content
| warning: I am a bit sweary) https://gist.github.com/smcl/666a
| 0156b13d7a681e0378b836b36e4...
|
| Edit 2: Oops I am a liar actually, I didn't play Invisible
| War :-O
| [deleted]
| newsclues wrote:
| And yet cyberpunk and watch dogs aren't close to being the
| same despite the similar aesthetic/theme.
| robonerd wrote:
| They aren't cynical and bitter enough. Cyberpunk should be
| revolting, not appealing.
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| Cyberpunk _was_ pretty revolting ... Cyberpunk _2077_ ,
| that is. I kid, I kid. It actually did a good job of
| presenting a future that's not the slightest bit
| appealing, I suppose.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| Cruelty Squad nails it though, despite having LSD visual
| projectile vomit aesthetics.
| newsclues wrote:
| Visual vomit for real, that looks grotesque!
| smcl wrote:
| It has near-universal critical acclaim though. I've been
| putting it off because of the visual vomit ever since
| Steam recommended it to me before Civvie, Yahtzee et al
| boosted it ... but sooner or later I'm gonna have to give
| it a go.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| It probably isn't for everyone, but at least for me it's
| among the better games I've played in recent years.
| smcl wrote:
| Quite possibly, I'm definitely keeping an open mind
| though. Just for context, I had written off the
| FromSoftware games because I disliked the idea of a game
| tormenting me, and I've given Elden Ring a shot and I
| love it. This might seem a bit silly but I'd previously
| been playing it safe and only trying things I think I'd
| like rather than rolling the dice and leaving my comfort
| zone. So I'm now in the state of mind of having zero
| preconceptions and just trying stuff, even if my initial
| impression is "it looks like their main graphics guy was
| drunk and only used MS Paint"
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| It's honestly fairly similar to From's games in several
| ways, except it's a first person shooter.
|
| At face value, it's ridiculously hard, everything kills
| you almost instantly. The game is figuring out how to
| cheese the game, the more you cheese it the more the game
| unfolds. The game expects you to do this, and rewards you
| for it, arguably even more so than FromSoft's games do.
| Jank is a core gameplay mechanic. If you manage to
| bullshit your way into a location where you really
| shouldn't be able to go, odds are it has a super powerful
| weapon or a secret or whatever.
|
| It really forces you to engage with the game as it is
| rather than going through the motions of playing a first
| person shooter.
| mplewis wrote:
| Yes - and it's something you'll never get anywhere else.
| The artist behind it is passionate and thoughtful about
| this precise style.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| Yeah, it's trippy and looks like a low-effort meme game,
| but it has surprising depth both in terms of gameplay and
| arguably also in terms of philosophical consistency.
|
| The sensory assault that is the audiovisual aesthetics
| are very intentionally crafted and fits with the world
| and the message.
| [deleted]
| sascha_sl wrote:
| Human Revolution excelled as a stealth game, which was fine
| for me because that is how I (and, judging by the critical
| reception to DXHR, many others) usually play immersive sims.
| It's almost as much of an underserved genre as the immersive
| sim.
|
| Mankind Divided improved on a lot of the criticisms in DXHR,
| but ended up being too ambitious for its own good, setting
| sales goals (and production budgets) in a somewhat niche
| genre as if it was Call of Duty. It's good, but short and
| ends abruptly.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| I think Human Revolution mainly fucked up its infamous boss
| fights. Beyond that, it's a decent Deus Ex game. Like it's
| not the greatest ever, but hard to say it's worse than
| Invisible War.
|
| A lot of what made the original good was unraveling the
| conspiracy. That's a trick you can only do once, and I think
| in large, that's why the sequels (including IW) don't have
| the same impact.
| vinkelhake wrote:
| Yeah the boss fights in DX:HR came as a kick in the groin
| for players who focused on stealth. I'll just note that the
| Director's cut release revised the boss fights, expanded
| the arenas and added ways for stealth players to deal with
| them.
|
| The Director's cut can also be played with commentary which
| I think was implemented really well.
| smcl wrote:
| Ooooh I'm gonna have to play thru with the commentary
| after I'm done with Elden Ring (and Nier Automata, and
| System Shock 2 and Ghostwire Tokyo and some other things
| I have lined up). What's the experience with commentary
| like?
| vinkelhake wrote:
| The game prompts you when there's commentary to be heard,
| and it's presented as like a radio transmission. It's
| basically a bunch of the leads talking and giving behind
| the scenes insight into things. It's been a while since I
| played through with commentary, but I remember it being a
| great experience - in particular if you're a big fan of
| the game (which I am).
|
| Here's an example of what it's like:
| https://youtu.be/AhXoYgB7rPU?t=2853
| smcl wrote:
| Nice, thanks! For some reason I didn't think to check YT
| DashAnimal wrote:
| Heh. This is not to call you out because I absolutely did the
| same up until last week (and I'm certain a high percentage of
| others are the same). I've recently decided to make it a habit
| of reading articles first (directly from the publisher website)
| before even visiting Hacker News or Reddit. And after you do
| that, you start to realize how much discussion is based
| entirely around headlines.
|
| Anyway, from the article:
|
| And shortly after the announcement went live, Eidos Montreal
| confirmed in an Embracer conference call that its next major
| game would be set in the world of Deus Ex
| starburst wrote:
| And if you would've read the article that linked to that
| quote you would see that: "Update: This was an out-of-context
| quote in reference to Eidos Montreal's beginning. Shacknews
| and the author regret this error in reporting." [1]
|
| [1] https://www.shacknews.com/article/130122/deus-ex-ip-will-
| be-...
| DashAnimal wrote:
| Yikes, thanks for pointing that out! Read a few articles
| about this and multiple of them referred to the press
| conference announcing a new Deus Ex - disappointing that
| none of them verified for themselves and shame on me for
| not following the rabbit hole.
| Reubachi wrote:
| I would take anything EM says with a grain of salt.
|
| I think they have no desire to make another Deus Ex game. MD
| was released in a "rushed" manner according to them, despite
| having over 5 years of dedicated development :/ But maybe a
| new parent will breath some life/money into their development
| cycle.
| ianbutler wrote:
| Pretty please can we have the final installment of the Adam
| Jensen Deus Ex trilogy now. Left us hanging in the middle of what
| might be one of my favorite neo noir, cyberpunk series because
| open world story driven games were losing out back then. There's
| clearly an appetite now given recent releases and their success.
| Reubachi wrote:
| I think Deus Ex is done. A finish to the Jensen story would
| rely upon Eidos Montreal being able to produce more than one
| game every 5 years. Since Mankind Divided, they've released
| only a Guardians of the Galaxy game.
|
| MD was a great game, which was according to Eidos Montreal
| kneecapped by "Square rushing it out". Human Revolution was an
| even greater game, but still slightly kneecapped by "Square
| rushing it out".
| l30n4da5 wrote:
| > I think Deus Ex is done.
|
| I mean, it says in the article that Eidos Montreal already
| confirmed their next game is a Deus Ex title, so....I dont
| think it is done.
| stewx wrote:
| No, it was misreported. They didn't say they were making a
| Deus Ex game.
| Reubachi wrote:
| I should say, I feel strongly that Eidos Montreal would
| like to make the game, but will be unable to produce it in
| >5 years, and this new parent will not like that.
| Melatonic wrote:
| People say that every time and (thankfully) so far we have
| kept getting Deus Ex games. For all their flaws I have
| enjoyed every single one q uite a bit.
|
| Mankind Divided I thought was highly underrated. Cyberpunk
| 2077 was sort of close to what I think some people wanted out
| of the ultimate Deus Ex game (depending on your playstyle)
| but obviously had problems as well.
|
| Personally I would like to see something massive and not just
| another boring "open world" focused game - Deus Ex really
| shines with a strong story driven plot. I have always wanted
| to see a true co-op functionality in a Deus Ex game and I
| think that could be hugely popular online especially if they
| regularly released new missions and content.
| henriquecm8 wrote:
| They release two games, Guardians of the Galaxy and Shadow of
| Tomb Raider. And helped with Avengers.
| brendoelfrendo wrote:
| Yeah, neither of which were small games, for the record;
| SotTR was a huge effort, if not the high point of the new
| TR games. And Guardians of the Galaxy was well-received,
| and even won a Game Award for best narrative (I won't
| comment on the relevance of awards shows; let's just call
| it "peer recognition" for their efforts).
|
| Guardians also failed to meet Square's sales expectations,
| though Square is notoriously hard to please. Tomb Raider
| (2013) moved 3.6 million in its first month, and was
| considered a disappointment... but not so much of a
| disappointment that they didn't green-light 2 sequels.
| ianbutler wrote:
| Perhaps, my understanding is that is all a result of Square's
| mismanagement so now with that seemingly out of the way maybe
| they'll course correct.
| Sakos wrote:
| Why would Embracer buy Deus Ex if they had no intention of
| doing anything with it? They're not EA.
| 542458 wrote:
| Embracer bought lots of things, not just Deus Ex. Companies
| acquire IPs in bulk buys all the time that they never do
| anything with (Gex being a good example).
|
| That said the linked article says that Eidos Montreal is
| working on a Deus Ex game, so you might be in luck.
| Sakos wrote:
| Embracer is particularly known for picking up old IP's
| for reviving them though, especially when there is demand
| for it.
| redisman wrote:
| They released a new expansion to Titan Quest last year.
| I've talked to their leadership and they will 100%
| release content and new platform support for every IP
| they buy. It's their whole MO - buy somewhat stale IP and
| take care of it to generate easy revenue. For almost
| every big IP they buy they fund a sequel
| stevenwoo wrote:
| Whenever this game is mentioned, I still think about and regret
| my actions during my first playthrough of the very first
| mission in the second? game. You have a choice in how to do it
| and I was lazy and just killed everyone, and IIRC it's revealed
| that it's a test with your comrades guarding the objective and
| I felt awful!
| haunter wrote:
| >The Transaction will assist the Company in adapting to the
| changes underway in the global business environment by
| establishing a more efficient allocation of resources, which will
| enhance corporate value by accelerating growth in the Company's
| core businesses in the digital entertainment domain. In addition,
| the Transaction enables the launch of new businesses by moving
| forward with investments in fields including blockchain, AI, and
| the cloud.
|
| https://www.hd.square-enix.com/eng/news/pdf/20220502%20A_Pre...
|
| They are still making incredibly good games (FFXIV, DQXI, Nier,
| Bravely Default etc.) but for every single good one I swear they
| make 3 utter shite too + their gacha games are not even that good
| considering the saturation on the gacha market and what quality
| games some other companies can make (see Genshin)
|
| But at least Naoki Yoshida is on the board of directors + he is
| producing the next mainline FF game and I think he has the trust
| of millions of players considering what they did with XIV. So not
| all hope lost as long as he is at the company.
| omoikane wrote:
| For me, Square Enix has been more of a manga publisher than a
| game company in recent years, and on that front I would say
| they are doing a pretty good job.
| bovermyer wrote:
| In the noclip documentary on FFXIV a few years back, Yoshida
| mentioned that he was considering leaving Square-Enix to make
| his own games. FFXIV is really good, but Yoshida is the soul of
| that game. If he left, that would be devastating.
|
| If you haven't seen the noclip documentary, you should. It's on
| YouTube.
| falcolas wrote:
| He has since stated that he won't leave FFXIV. Has re-
| iterated it in the face of the 6.0 launch, since 6.0 wrapped
| up the main storyline and there were fears of his departure
| following that.
| bovermyer wrote:
| That's great to hear!
| favorited wrote:
| He's also the producer for Final Fantasy XVI, which is
| being developed by his org (Creative Business Unit III).
| sascha_sl wrote:
| Pivoting further into gambling utilizing their IP has worked
| reasonably well for Konami.
| make3 wrote:
| For people who don't play MMOs because they're way too
| addictive, the focus of square on FFXIV has been really
| disappointing
| Longlius wrote:
| You can basically engage with the entire story of XIV without
| touching the MMO part at all. Especially now that they're
| going back and enabling NPC party members for the story
| dungeons.
| jrsj wrote:
| When you zoom out a little it makes a lot of sense. FF15 and
| FF13 were both failures, company had serious financial issues
| before FF14 took off. Hopefully you will get to enjoy FF16,
| and making that game wouldn't have been possible without the
| success of 14.
|
| FFXIV also has the least addictive qualities of any MMO I
| have played in my experience. There's very little FOMO &
| you're encouraged to play at whatever pace you enjoy. Many
| players just play through the story and treat it as a mostly
| single player game.
| brendoelfrendo wrote:
| I wouldn't call FF13 or FF15 failures from a sales point of
| view; they both performed strongly. From a "brand damage"
| point of view, though, they were catastrophic. I think the
| development of FF16 speaks for itself: they gave the
| development of a mainline single-player title to Creative
| Business Unit III, their FF14 studio, because they have a
| rep for making consistently good content and delivering it
| on time. Meanwhile, no one expects Nomura to reveal
| anything about the inevitable FF7 Remake sequel for at
| least the next 3 years.
|
| FF14 is great, though, as a non-MMO player. The community
| is largely helpful to newcomers, the story content is very
| accessible and requires little to no grinding, and the game
| as a whole doesn't gate important plot developments behind
| high-tier endgame content the way most MMOs do.
| poulpy123 wrote:
| That read like a parody
| baby wrote:
| I think a lot of their games are really niche too. Nier is
| definitely not for everyone.
| robonerd wrote:
| Few games are for everybody, but Nier: Automata sold millions
| of copies. The niche of action gamers who like asses is
| pretty big.
| morelisp wrote:
| But Nier was even more interesting (formally experimental,
| better writing - at least in English translation, deeper
| characterization) and sold poorly.
|
| I guess the lesson if you want to make an art game is to
| make half an art game and the other half ass.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| The gameplay of the original Nier is dogshit though.
|
| That leads to poor reviews, which leads to poor sales.
| morelisp wrote:
| "Gameplay" is a non-criticism. The combat movement is
| clunky, especially by western it-sucks-if-I-can't-cancel-
| everything-all-the-time God of War standards. Plenty of
| other stuff is amazing.
| Jensson wrote:
| > it-sucks-if-I-can't-cancel-everything-all-the-time
|
| Western gamers loves Dark Souls/Elden Ring so that
| statement is definitely false.
| [deleted]
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| > "Gameplay" is a non-criticism.
|
| How is "Gameplay" a non-criticism of a Game? That makes
| zero sense.
|
| Also, that gameplay you are talking about was arguably
| pioneered by Devil May Cry, which is a Japanese game.
|
| So I don't know what you're on about "Western Gamers"
| morelisp wrote:
| GoW's explicit design goal was "NG/DMC but easier and
| more cancels." Which is fine, but the difference is
| there.
|
| https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/combat-canceled-i-god-
| of-wa...
|
| As for "gameplay" I'm not going to recapitulate the past
| decade+ of how we've learned to write about games. It's
| semantically empty, say what you mean instead.
| Volundr wrote:
| Not sure I'd say dogshit but not near as smooth as
| automata.
|
| Plus the story of the original game took a looooooong
| time to get going combined with the ability to lock
| yourself out of the true ending without knowing or
| discovering it for like 75% of the game is definitely
| going to limit the audience.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| It's not just "not as smooth as Automata", it's bad by
| the standards of the era it was released into.
|
| It's a 2010 PS3 game with movement and combat and
| controls that feel like an early PS2 game where they are
| still figuring out twin stick movement and cameras.
| bsder wrote:
| The controls are terrible. The combat is _super_
| repetitive. You transition between areas very slowly. You
| can lock yourself out of endings without even intending
| to. You can accidentally throw yourself into forced
| events super underleveled. You have to grind like hell
| for some of the materials. I can go on and on.
|
| "Dogshit" might be a bit hyperbolic, but not by a lot.
|
| Nier: Automata is a good (not great) game from Platinum
| wrapped in a juicy Nier narrative layer that elevates it
| to a very good game.
| musicale wrote:
| Nier Replicant ver.1.22... is a remake of the original
| and has gotten positive reviews (80+ on Metacritic.)
|
| I did not find Nier Gestalt to be worse than any other
| JRPGs of its era in terms of gameplay, and it had some
| clever bits like switching between 2D and 3D perspectives
| as well as game styles. My main complaints were the
| tedious fetch quests (I completed about half of them
| before deciding it wasn't worth finishing them all), the
| fact that the fishing minigame was explained incorrectly,
| and (slight spoiler) a story that I found to be sad and
| depressing. Completing multiple endings can be somewhat
| tedious as well. But the creativity, the atmospheric
| graphics, and the soundtrack were exceptional.
|
| I think Nier Gestalt and Replicant on the PS3 were
| underrated (if flawed) gems.
| namelessoracle wrote:
| Nier had significant assets in that regard too.
|
| Nier: Automata was just a flat out better game.
| c0balt wrote:
| The term ass.ets is quite an interesting choice of words
| in this regard. Though besides that time (including
| current trends) might also have been a very important
| factor. I would imagine a Deus Ex game might've sold
| better rn (with the increased hunger for cyperpunk-ish
| games after Cyperpunk 2077) than in the last few years.
| Though with the dev times on those games planning for
| future trends might be unreasonable.
| kipchak wrote:
| Maybe he's talking about the first in the series, Nier
| 2010?
| bilekas wrote:
| Nier is easily one of my all time favorites and as much as I
| try and get friends to play it, it's so hard to explain what
| kind of game and experience it really is. A great piece of
| art.
| smcl wrote:
| I bought it and got distracted by other games without
| playing it yet, I need to get back to it! Mostly was
| inspired by the Consolevania review (which had a truly
| bizarre opening minute that you might enjoy:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8jeEwL9QUM)
|
| edit: I rewatched the review now I totally get why I picked
| it up, Ryan's enthusiasm is absolutely hilarious and
| infectious ("It's just perfect as I've ever seen you can
| ride a fucking boar in it")
| MomoXenosaga wrote:
| Nier also had a minuscule budget. I doubt they lost a lot of
| money on that.
|
| No it is their Western AAA projects that are hemorrhaging
| them money.
| Longlius wrote:
| I mean, Final Fantasy XIV has something like 1.7 million
| active players at the moment. That's just people paying a sub
| at endgame. $25m in monthly revenue at the low-end is pretty
| impressive for a single game.
| pavlov wrote:
| "Investments in blockchain, AI, and the cloud" sounds like they
| have absolutely no idea what they should do, and will spend
| most of the money paying very expensive consultants who produce
| delirious slideware about web3 metaverse opportunities.
| mywittyname wrote:
| I think that's just pandering. The markets expect to hear
| this line and will punish the stocks of tech companies that
| don't show some kind of investments into this kind of stuff.
|
| They'll make some NFT-based card game with advanced self-
| learning AI opponents just to tick all the right boxes.
| halfmatthalfcat wrote:
| Why? Because enough VCs/Hedge Funds have bought into the
| lie that is crypto or "AI". Is this some kind of economic
| extortion?
| nikanj wrote:
| VCs reward investments into all that horse hockey,
| because VCs reward investments into it. It's greater
| fools all the way down, a weird self-fulfilling prophecy.
|
| I still remember when companies proudly claimed their
| software contains XML and therefore is worth unicorn
| dollars
| patmorgan23 wrote:
| Yes, precisely. Executives want to pump the stock price
| because it's a large part of their compensation. Many
| Hedge funds/VCs want to invest in "innovative" companies
| .
| oicU00 wrote:
| Traditional values are gossip based pseudoscience. The
| majority will never dig deeper, so it works, but what's
| more they'll never understand the nuance so why bother?
| Stick with gossip.
| nomel wrote:
| Famously: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/21/long-island-
| iced-tea-micro-c...
| tyrfing wrote:
| More recently, insider trading and pump-and-dump charges.
|
| https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2018/lr24201.h
| tm
|
| https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2021-121
|
| Penny stock frauds like that are more about ripping off
| retail.
| philipov wrote:
| They need to fire their loser NFT-deluded president and let
| YoshiP run the company.
| de6u99er wrote:
| It looks like all CEO's have agreed on legalizing pyramid
| schemes.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Pyramids are great for the pharaohs.
| pjc50 wrote:
| Rather like the Jan 6 events, once people get away with one
| thing they will try another. And another. In this case,
| enough people have made enough money from pyramid schemes
| without going to jail that it's becoming hugely popular.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| It is not always a good idea to let productive people run a
| company. Let YoshiP make games, that's what he is good at.
|
| And have someone who knows how to make money be the
| president, so that he can finance YoshiP games, preferably
| without too much meddling into the creative process. I am not
| into NFTs myself but if it makes money that can be invested
| into good games, by all means, let them do it.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| YoshiP is killing it with 14. Let's just leave him alone to
| build great things. Or at least until he gets 16 out first.
| Tiktaalik wrote:
| In comparison to other recent sales of big studios and publishers
| the price just seems absolutely and insanely low. Gearbox 1.3B,
| Bethesda 7.5B, Insomniac $230M, Wth is Square thinking.
|
| Letting Eidos and Crystal Dynamics go for about the same price as
| Insomniac? Wild just wild.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| I was never sure how much of the $7.5B is Bethesda vs sister
| and parent companies . This deal makes it seem like it's over
| $7B of it, but there were a decent amt of sister companies
| making thing.
|
| Epic Games was just valued at $31.5B in their latest funding
| round last month.
| acheron wrote:
| Maybe Epic will finally be able to fund that Jill of the
| Jungle sequel now.
| oneoff786 wrote:
| The newer tomb raider games are the most AAA games I've ever
| seen. Not saying they're good, or bad, but every other moment is
| a handcrafted moment. It sort of works. A lot of it is
| platforming through crumbling environments. Which is pretty cool.
| It's sort of overdone too.
|
| SquareEnix felt legendary growing up.
| wetpaws wrote:
| I want to see more Tomb Raider, but I absolutely don't want to
| see more AAA Tomb Raider.
|
| If it is a future of squenix, maybe it would be better for them
| to stop making games.
| kmlx wrote:
| > The newer tomb raider games are the most AAA games I've ever
| seen
|
| uncharted, horizon, god of war, last of us etc
| smoldesu wrote:
| I've never really liked those franchises, even though they do
| have AAA production value behind them. Uncharted and God of
| War in particular just feel like button-pressing simulators
| to me; they feel like 8 hour long cutscenes with a few QTEs
| and points where you can wiggle your joystick. Maybe I'm just
| spoiled by gameplay-heavy titles as of late, but a lot of
| Sony franchises feel like they'd be better as movies instead.
| That being said, the new Uncharted movie bombed at the box
| office so I don't know who's at fault here...
| skinnymuch wrote:
| This Uncharted film seems like it really succeeded at the
| box office. $120M budget. Even if that gets bumped to $200M
| with marketing and say a bit more for more rev sharing,
| Sony will still come out with a profit. It's at almost
| $150M in the US and might hit $400M worldwide with almost
| none of it coming from China or similar regions where their
| cut of ticket sales are much less.
|
| All the non box office revenue kicking in should be decent.
| The film didn't do well critically so that isn't an issue.
| A recent non box office success example:
| https://www.msn.com/en-
| us/movies/news/e2-80-98uncharted-e2-8...
|
| I believe video games movies outside the recent Sonic
| one[s] are known to not perform well financially so that
| rep will still be there
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| I've never played Uncharted, but I had a much different God
| of War experience from what you described. There's really
| quite a lot of gameplay there, and some of the optional
| combat encounters were ridiculously tough -- certainly not
| QTE-ridden cutscenes. Some of the puzzles were repetitive
| and there was certainly quite a lot of dialog, but I never
| felt like I was in a button-pressing simulator.
| aconbere wrote:
| Maybe OP is considering the earlier games in the series?
| I agree with you that certainly compared to Uncharted and
| Tomb Raider the latest God of War has far more engaging
| world design and combat.
| Dudeman112 wrote:
| The latest God of War just needed more actual bosses.
|
| Feels like the queen bitch valkyrie was the only
| encounter where they _actually_ decided to push the
| combat. Imagine if Sekiro or Souls games only had a
| couple of bosses that felt like real bosses.
|
| Overall a phenomenal game, though.
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| We must have been playing different games, or I'm just
| terrible at them. I found the non-queen Valkyries
| immensely difficult, certainly boss level, and some of
| the other boss-like encounters took me a few tries.
| Dudeman112 wrote:
| Ah, I think there's an important distinction here my
| original comment didn't properly touch on: it doesn't
| mean the bosses weren't _punishing_.
|
| Consider fighting a normal high level draugr with an
| under leveled/geared Kratos. Assume we are on the highest
| difficulty.
|
| You'll basically have to dodge a lot (or spam ranged
| attacks), your attacks won't reliably stagger them,
| you'll tickle their health bar and getting hit once or
| twice will kill you. That is punishing and hard if
| there's more than one of them.
|
| However, if your levels are similar you'll be able to
| count on staggers, there will be certain attacks that
| cannot be blocked, certain attacks that will stagger you
| if the block wasn't perfect, you can freeze one of the
| enemies.
|
| The hard case is far simpler and less involved than the
| normal combat.
|
| I consider the normal valkyries hard, but individually
| they don't really have _lots_ of tricks that require
| hyper focusing both on reading them and executing the
| appropriate counter. They are fairly simple to understand
| for the most part.
|
| You need to have cached a butt load of movements and
| their appropriate counters to fight the queen valkyrie.
| You might even find some non obvious openings for poking.
|
| Most valkyries are straightforward when you get their 1-3
| special attacks. That's not much more than regular
| enemies.
| Shadonototra wrote:
| SquareSoft was great, when they merged with Enix to form
| SquareEnix is when things started to go wrong
|
| People mix both SquareSoft's success and Enix and their merge
| skinnymuch wrote:
| Yeah I've looked at the games catalogue before. It doesn't
| seem like Enix brings that much to the table. It seems like
| they got real lucky being there financially for Squaresoft
| after their massive film losses.
| crate_barre wrote:
| It was believed Square's choice to put Final Fantasy on
| PlayStation killed the Sega Saturn, and dented N64 adoption.
| But this is console war mythos, not sure if anyone really dug
| into it.
|
| The power of Square once upon a time may have been truly
| legendary, but who knows for sure?
| ineedasername wrote:
| Cartridge price played a big part for N64. MSRP for new games
| was about $60 compared to most PS1 games @ $50. Worse,
| retailers often marked them up a lot, which didn't seem to
| happen for PS1 games. I'm pretty sure I paid $80 for Ocarina
| of Time, while I snagged FFVII for the $50 MSRP. And IIRC
| price drops were pretty rare, especially for 1st party games.
| (Still true today).
|
| It made me much less willing to take a chance on a games I
| might not like. These days with Steam I can at least see if I
| hate the game immediately and return it, so much better from
| that perspective. Of course I can resell when I'm done, which
| is less good.
| bennysomething wrote:
| One of the ex rare Goldeneye Devs said in an interview that
| the N64 not having a cd drive lost them that generation. I
| think he's probably mostly right.
|
| Cartridges were not only an anti piracy move, it saved on
| cost of console manufacturing (the N64 was still sold at a
| loss).
|
| As you point out N64 games were originally a lot more
| expensive than playstation games.
|
| Also Nintendo were really restrictive with who could
| develop for the N64, remember the whole "dream team" thing?
| Mean playstation had way more favourable licensing and you
| didn't need silicon graphics workstations (I think I'm
| correct in N64 dev requiring them?)
| ineedasername wrote:
| What was the dream team thing? I'm not familiar with
| that.
| robonerd wrote:
| The N64 controller did Nintendo no favors, particularly
| with games like Goldeneye. The original playstation
| controller didn't stand the test of time either, but once
| the analog sticks were added it became an instant
| classic.
| trey-jones wrote:
| The controller was weird then and is even weirder in
| hindsight but as I recall:
|
| 1. This was the first console controller with any analog
| stick at all.
|
| 2. Goldeneye, though it controls differently to modern
| shooters, was an excellent use of the single stick at the
| time. You could also use dual sticks by using two
| controllers at once - groundbreaking!
|
| 3. The Z-button was the first trigger-style button on
| console controllers.
|
| 4. The rumble pack was one of (if not) the first force
| feedback options for console controllers.
|
| So obviously very many of the concepts in the N64
| controller laid the groundwork for what became the
| standard controller design later, with dual triggers,
| dual sticks, and built-in force feedback.
|
| Personally I think the N64 controller was less weird
| than:
|
| 1. Gamecube controller
|
| 2. Wiimote
|
| 3. Dual Screen handheld with touchscreen and stylus
|
| 4. Probably whatever the Wii-U had.
| mwaitjmp wrote:
| The wii u tablet controller is actually pretty
| comfortable to use.
| giobox wrote:
| > Goldeneye, though it controls differently to modern
| shooters, was an excellent use of the single stick at the
| time. You could also use dual sticks by using two
| controllers at once - groundbreaking!
|
| Wait, what!!? Can you really play dual-stick Goldeneye on
| original N64 hardware this way?
|
| Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQ_ri2ZbY4
|
| Amazing!
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| > Gamecube controller
|
| The Gamecube controller may have _looked_ a bit funny,
| but it 's at least recognizable by modern standards. I
| recall it being quite comfortable to use at the time. If
| you gave both it and the original N64 controller to a
| young person today who had no idea about Nintendo's
| history, I daresay she'd call the Gamecube controller the
| less weird of the two.
|
| Also, it wasn't Nintendo, but I'd call the Dreamcast
| controller a bit weird. Gigantic, weirdly shaped, a dinky
| LCD smack dab in the center ...
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| I'll give them a pass on that one. In the era of the
| N64's design stage I don't think anyone knew what a good
| controller setup with (an) analog stick(s) would be like.
| Even the original Xbox came with an awful controller,
| though at least they got the layout right.
| trey-jones wrote:
| Somehow the pros of N64 carts (mainly loading times and
| onboard game saves) were never really talked about. I had
| an N64 (which I purchased together with Goldeneye circa
| 1997). I can remember a feeling of thinking I had made a
| mistake because PS1 _seemed_ much bigger and I had a
| feeling that it must have been better. But looking back,
| I feel like N64 had the better set of games. But maybe
| that 's just because it's what I know. Honestly Goldeneye
| and Perfect Dark were probably enough to win that war all
| by themselves in my mind, but Mario Kart, Mario 64, Smash
| Bros, and Star Fox also got a lot of play time from me.
| ineedasername wrote:
| There were definite advantages to cartridges. I remember
| a few occasions where PS1 memory cards ate my save data,
| which never happened on N64. And I remember tedious disc
| swapping and long load times on a few games: Riven had a
| few discs and you'd have to switch when traveling from
| one area to another, and those were always fraught with
| the potential for game crashes.
|
| On the other hand discs allowed much larger games. There
| was a crazy amount of variety on the PS1, though as a
| result also a lot of crap to sort through. I was a
| Nintendo-first fanboy at the time, but when the PS1
| dropped in price to about $100 I picked one up, trading
| in N64 games I no longer played to help fund the
| purchase. I think it was around the time FFVII came out
| because I remember reserving it for day-1 release.
|
| Ahh simpler times, working manual labor while in school.
| Sometimes I'm nostalgic for those days of unskilled
| (relatively) non knowledge-based work. It was much less
| stressful, even if the pay was crap.
| skhr0680 wrote:
| Maybe it's just my filter bubble but for years Sony had such
| good marketing that I knew their flagship games and random
| facts about their consoles even when I didn't own them
| myself.
|
| I couldn't tell you a single game on the PS5. I don't know
| about other countries, but it's like they're not even trying
| in Japan
| baisq wrote:
| GTA Online ;)
|
| Even today it is hard to buy a PS5. So, no wonder they
| aren't pushing it that hard.
| bitwize wrote:
| The original Tomb Raider was almost Minecraft-esque. It was
| composed of blocks of different heights and slopes in a 2D
| grid. This allowed the developers to create all sorts of
| scenarios from simple tools to put Lara through and really test
| all her abilities.
|
| I played through the first "new" Tomb Raider and it was very
| much "walk on the path marked walkable, climb the ledges/walls
| marked climbable, shoot the specially marked doors to create a
| scripted zipline", etc. Oh, and "waist-height walls mean
| upcoming combat sequence". Based on that I decided to skip the
| other two. _Uncharted_ was better able to mask the on-rails
| nature of its experience, at least.
| fxtentacle wrote:
| You have pretty much summarized what I liked about the new
| Tomb Raider: It's kinda linear, so you just go with the flow.
| baud147258 wrote:
| It's kinda a shame that we're loosing the exploration side
| of the gameplay for set-piece focused linear adventure with
| loads of combat, which are dime a dozen nowadays, unlike
| exploration/platformers with a side of combat
| jimmyjazz14 wrote:
| That's what I hate about it, its like a bad interactive
| movie. I also feel like the new Tomb Raiders focus way to
| much on combat and almost none on exploring.
| acchow wrote:
| Crumbling environments looks really cool, but they kind of make
| an entire game around it :P
| baby wrote:
| Then you should play uncharted and the last of us. This is peak
| AAA
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Actually, I greatly prefer Tomb Raider 2013 to any of the
| Uncharted games I've tried (2, 3, and some of 4). TR2013 is
| laser focused on cinematic platforming and awe-inspiring set
| pieces, with much less conventional shooting. I've played
| through the game several times over the years, and I always
| come away thinking it's an underrated title.
|
| TR2013 doesn't push any boundaries, but it does execute a
| standard formula more effectively than anything else I've
| tried. I did _not_ think the two sequels were anywhere near
| as good!
|
| (I haven't played The Last of Us though. I hear it's
| incredible, but I can't deal with the subject matter.)
| brimble wrote:
| IMO 2 and 4 are easily the best Uncharted games. I wouldn't
| recommend 1 or 3 at all, despite 3 having a plot that
| _should_ have really appealed to me. The first one mostly
| suffers from unrefined mechanics making it a slog, but they
| fixed that in 2.
|
| But, 2 and 4 are very different. 2 is a solid 3d action-
| platformer, while my favorite parts of 4 were when it
| basically just became a "walking simulator"-type game for
| long stretches, with most of the action and platforming
| just feeling tacked-on and superfluous.
|
| > (I haven't played The Last of Us though. I hear it's
| incredible, but I can't deal with the subject matter.)
|
| I should have loved it, but bounced off _hard_. The
| prologue had me, but a little while into the game proper I
| just wanted _all_ the main characters to die, including the
| one you 're really, really not supposed to want to die.
| They're all horrible and I didn't like or care about them a
| single bit, to the point that I _wanted_ them to fail. The
| protagonist in particular, I _had to_ root for him to fail
| because clearly this humanity-on-the-brink would be better
| off with one fewer self-interested mass-murders around
| making things even worse. That 's... not a great way to
| motivate the player.
| giobox wrote:
| > I had to root for him to fail because clearly this
| humanity-on-the-brink would be better off with one fewer
| self-interested mass-murders around making things even
| worse. That's... not a great way to motivate the player.
|
| Isn't the question of the players morality vs the
| "enemies" core to the entire concept of the game though?
| I think the lesson the game is trying to teach is exactly
| that: by what standard is the protagonist actually any
| "better" than those he regards as enemies? By the end of
| the game, I think doubting the main character is
| hopefully exactly the point - he isn't a good person
| either. In a completely lawless world such as that
| inhabited by the characters, I think this makes sense to
| explore.
|
| Make the central character a likable, non-mass murdering
| fellow and this huge central theme of the game disappears
| - _The Last of Us_ is harrowing by design, I 'd argue,
| and its commitment to being harrowing is what sets it
| apart as a game in a sea of relatively emotionally
| shallow "AAA" titles of the same era.
| brimble wrote:
| Maybe, but it was kind of a problem when I was already
| like "is there a way to progress the game but have this
| guy not accomplish what he wants?" on like mission 1
| (past the prologue)--there was no build-up to it, I
| thought he was wrong and should fail immediately. And
| they might have gone for some kind of turn-around on that
| when the girl comes into the story, so that I start
| wanting him to succeed, but then, I also didn't like her
| and didn't care if anything involved with that worked
| out, either.
|
| I think I quit right after the game had me murder a
| couple soldiers for bad reasons. I already have several
| GTA games I can play, which, thanks to tone and
| expectations, aren't _frustrating_ when they ask me to do
| that kind of thing. My head-canon is that the soldiers
| instead shot everyone there and that was the good ending
| for the story.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| ...if you haven't already heard of it, I feel like you'd
| enjoy _Spec Ops: The Line_. Go in completely blind if at
| all possible, and don 't be turned off by the fact that
| it seems like a generic dudebro war shooter. It does
| start out that way.
| levesque wrote:
| Am I the only one that can't stand these games? They are so
| restrictive in their gameplay, so linear! It feels like
| watching an interactive movie more than playing a game.
| robonerd wrote:
| You're not alone. These sort of games offer very little
| opportunity for players to creatively express themselves.
| This is more like watching a movie than playing a game.
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| It can be fun to express yourself, and some games get
| plenty of mileage out of offering people various
| opportunities to do just that. But sometimes you want to
| "play" a movie, and there's not necessarily anything
| wrong with that. I had a lot of fun with the Tomb Raider
| games despite the lack of creative expression -- the
| mechanics were fun, the story was dumb but entertaining,
| and there was a lot of spectacle to soak up. I don't need
| to engage every part of my brain all the time.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Hmm, I like them. The only times in TR that I do not like
| are the ones in which you have been completely kicking ass,
| and then inevitably get knocked out during a cutscene.
|
| And there's quite a lot of those.
| ravishi wrote:
| No, you're not the only one. I feel the same.
|
| OTOH, my friends who praise these games do so exactly
| because of that. To which their own.
| sascha_sl wrote:
| I found it annoying in Uncharterd, but The Last of Us made
| it work somehow. They had just enough freedom and side
| content to have it be a game while also telling a
| compelling story that very much demands linearity.
| stevenwoo wrote:
| I think I could not get past this after a couple of
| cinematic sequences in Uncharted 2. I just wanted to go to
| youtube and watch the cinematics stitched together
| uninterrupted. There was this point in game development
| where a big technical goal was to make the transition from
| cinematic to gameplay and back seamless. Now that it's a
| given in games I personally am not wowed anymore. Maybe for
| each of us the balance of challenging gameplay and
| rewarding cinematics/feel of accomplishment lies on this
| spectrum and these type of cinematic heavy games went too
| far on the spectrum towards interactive movie and just
| don't appeal to some of us. I am reminded of Dragon's Lair
| in arcades which was all quicktime events and was appalling
| to me for the 2-4x the price of other arcade games but
| other people I went with loved this type of challenge.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| When it's done well, I'm willing to embrace the cinematic
| nature of these games. Like a movie, the game is taking me
| on an adventure, but unlike a movie, I am _responsible_ for
| whether my character succeeds or fails. If I don 't jump at
| the right time, or deal with the attacker coming up behind
| me, my character _will_ die and it will be my fault.
|
| Sure, I'm aware somewhere in the back of my mind that
| everything has been laid out for me, but in my favorite
| games, I'm able to suspend my disbelief. However, if I
| can't figure out where to go, or if the game is too hard
| and I die too frequently, or if the game is too easy and I
| don't feel a threat, or if the pacing gets bogged down by
| optional side quests and bullshit skill trees... it's very
| easy for any of these things to break the illusion.
|
| I'd actually hold up Portal 2 as the best example of a
| linear cinematic experience done right. The pacing is
| perfect, the difficulty is perfect, and there's no
| distracting side quests or experience points. Combined with
| the first person perspective and the mute protagonist, I
| really feel like I _am_ Chell, trapped inside Aperture
| Science and talking to Wheatley.
| garaetjjte wrote:
| >my character will die and it will be my fault.
|
| About that... Tomb Raider 2013 has probably the most
| gruesome death animations I ever encountered in video
| game.
| brimble wrote:
| So much so that it felt like someone involved's... uh,
| _particular interests_ were coming through in the game,
| in a way that was kinda off-putting.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| So, I actually suspect that this was intentional, and
| kind of clever.
|
| When games don't have a penalty for dying, players will
| sometimes fall back on a trial-and-error approach, where
| each individual attempt stops being meaningful. Some
| experiences, like Celeste, are designed around this type
| of gameplay loop, but it usually doesn't work well in a
| cinematic experience.
|
| The most common penalty for dying is lost progress, but
| this _also_ doesn 't work well for cinematic games,
| because the experience looses its magic once you know
| what is going to happen.
|
| So Tomb Raider takes a different approach. Checkpoints
| are frequent, but the death animations make you really,
| _really_ not want to die!
|
| I'm very squeamish, so I always had to close my eyes when
| I died. But even the chance that I might see something
| was a good incentive!
| oneoff786 wrote:
| Linear games are better in my opinion. Linearity isn't the
| problem though. Mario is linear and very fun. Tomb raider
| just sort of takes away you doing anything. You have no
| real agency for a lot of it. Just told what buttons to
| press indirectly and then you do it.
| dayvid wrote:
| They require different design skillsets or experiences.
| Elden Ring and Zelda are designed to be more non-linear
| and they work, but have completely different strengths
| and focuses vs. a linear approach. More based on creating
| an engrossing world and mechanics that allow you to play
| most sections out of order and create your own adventure
| vs. the control you have over story nuances when you make
| a linear title (e.g. Half-Life 2).
| oneoff786 wrote:
| I feel elden ring really failed on the non linear aspect
| to be honest. It was frustratingly open ended up front,
| and then very linear at the end.
|
| I started the game, went to margit, found him too
| difficult, and then, with no particular alternatives,
| pretty much explored the entire map aimlessly, wishing
| for a clear direction on level appropriate content. It
| was hard to find the next thing to do. I didn't want to
| skip through things with ashes or multiplayer. I didn't
| want to farm.
|
| By the time I actually found this content there was
| nothing left to do besides warp to bosses and murder
| them, or look up the obtuse quest lines and warp around
| to complete those. A huge floor on character progression
| is finding the flask upgrades. But since they're just
| lying around you just go from having none of them to
| quickly finding more than you need for 80% of the game.
|
| Like... dark souls would just be a worse game if every
| door and elevator was open from the beginning. It would
| just be confusing and frustrating if you started making
| "wrong" explorations.
|
| I would greatly have preferred elden ring with pretty
| much the entire open world cut and instead just a tour of
| the legacy dungeons. The open world just compounded on
| some of dark soul's weaknesses. Like finding even more
| cool weapons that you can't practically try without
| farming a ton of upgrades and changing your build.
| nostromo95 wrote:
| Agreed.
|
| Playing through _Elden Ring_ made it clear to me how
| impressive _Breath of the Wild_ was in retrospect. Even
| without any meaningful awards (or because of?) the
| exploration in BotW is just so much more memorable and
| dynamic.
| Loughla wrote:
| There's linear gameplay and then there are linear games.
| Linear games are preferable, for many games, because
| there is a story that you can impact in meaningful ways,
| but with 'an' outcome. That outcome will morph or change
| based on inputs you make and decisions you make
| throughout the process. Linear gameplay is boring, in
| that you don't get any agency. You are simply completing
| a series of steps to feel a sense of accomplishment, when
| in reality all you have done is push the approved buttons
| at the appropriate time.
|
| Linear game that's awesome: Pillars of Eternity.
|
| Linear gameplay that's not awesome: Tomb raider games.
|
| Or maybe different games are made for different people.
| That could also be an option.
| levesque wrote:
| I like the distinction you make. Though I don't think
| Pillars of Eternity is a very strong example of a linear
| game that's awesome -- I played this game for a good 20
| hour at one point without following the main storyline.
| dayvid wrote:
| I'd say RE4 was a very well done linear game with solid
| gameplay. It definitely influenced a lot of games moving
| forward.
| didibus wrote:
| That's interesting and hopefully for the best.
|
| Square always did best Japanese style games, and maybe this lets
| them focus more on what they're good at.
|
| Eidos is such a good game studio, but I feel Square was just not
| letting them shine. Crystal Dynamics is also pretty descent, but
| that Avengers game what the hell happened? I think they're just
| not the right studio for a game like that.
|
| Now I don't know much about Embracer, but they seem to want to
| make good quality games, and I'm happy about that.
| brendoelfrendo wrote:
| I don't think there is a right studio for a live-service game
| with micro-transactions etc., etc., etc., and I blame Square
| for taking what could have been a tightly-focused game and
| making it into something big, bland, and expensive. Not to say
| that Crystal Dynamics couldn't have done better, just that I
| think Square is obsessed with making a live service game happen
| (see also: Outriders; Babylon's Fall) and they're letting that
| blind drive hurt their studios.
| awill wrote:
| I don't know anything about the debt/risk etc.. around this, but
| $300M seems very, very low for 3 studios with lots of IP.
| sorry_outta_gas wrote:
| The 300M received will 100x itself in the cryptospace though,
| must look to the future not the now.
|
| according to square's leadership anyway
| overboard2 wrote:
| How is that relevant?
| sorry_outta_gas wrote:
| "In addition, the Transaction enables the launch of new
| businesses by moving forward with investments in fields
| including blockchain, AI, and the cloud," Square Enix said.
| deathanatos wrote:
| You're not going to underprice a sale because of that.
| Even if you believed that you could take the money and
| "100x itself in the cryptospace"", why not 100x $500M,
| instead of 100x $300M?
|
| (Unless you disagree with the parent's point, that is,
| and think that that _is_ a fair price for what was sold.
| I 'm not commenting on that, only that "investing the
| proceeds in crypto" doesn't make sense in this argument.)
| [deleted]
| phoboslab wrote:
| > Square Enix says the transaction (which was only $300
| million) "enables the launch of new businesses by moving
| forward with investments in fields including blockchain,
| AI, and the cloud."
|
| ~ https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/1521017861803704321
| [deleted]
| metalliqaz wrote:
| They have been mismanaged badly and have lost LOTS of money on
| recent flops. I'll bet the new owners intend to completely
| write-off substantial chunks of the in-progress work and start
| clean.
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| You'd think Tomb Raider alone would be worth something like
| that amount, though maybe it did make up most of the value.
| tyrfing wrote:
| It definitely does.
|
| > [T]wo original IPs, Tomb Raider and Deus Ex, have sold AAA
| units of ~88M and ~12M, respectively. Embracer sees an
| opportunity to invest in these franchises, as well as the
| additional acquired IPs such as Legacy of Kain, Thief, and
| other original franchises.
|
| It's pretty much Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, and footnotes. Looks
| like Embracer picked this up for cheap because the business
| has been mismanaged, the base case involves running at
| breakeven for at least 2 years before they have new releases:
|
| > Embracer's base case financial plan implies that the
| combined acquired companies will be breakeven or have a
| smaller Operational EBIT contribution to the upcoming two
| financial years driven mainly by sales of the back-catalogue
| titles. This could change positively if the company decides
| to enter a deeper strategic relationship with one or more
| platforms around the upcoming pipeline. When the product
| pipeline matures in the years thereafter, Embracer expects
| the acquired companies to generate on average at least SEK
| 500 million in operational EBIT per year with notable upside
| potential.
|
| So 6X multiplier a few years out _if_ they turn it around.
| Notably, they 're financing this at 1% interest, and seem to
| have extremely low debt ratios. Still, I'm surprised it was
| this cheap, especially with the gaming IP land grab going on
| these days. Makes me wonder if there's weird additional
| commitments like not firing anyone, or if their recent
| financial performance is much worse than implied.
|
| https://embracer.com/release/embracer-group-enters-into-
| an-a...
| CodeArtisan wrote:
| Executives at Square-Enix have been saying for >ten years now
| that video gaming consoles and AAA games are getting less and
| less interesting to them, especially in Japan.
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