[HN Gopher] Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcoho...
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Effects of fexofenadine, diphenhydramine, and alcohol on driving
performance
Author : jasonhansel
Score : 25 points
Date : 2022-04-30 19:58 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov)
| etaioinshrdlu wrote:
| 50mg diphenhydramine is quite a bit! Anyone who has ever taken
| that amount for sleep effects will tell you so.
| retrac wrote:
| It is, but 25 - 50 mg every 4 - 6 hours, with no more than 200
| mg over 24 hours, is also the instructions on the OTC bottle I
| have.
|
| I made that mistake once in university. Took two capsules for a
| moderate skin reaction and slept the entire afternoon away.
| Fortunately I was at home! Just willing myself to get up long
| enough to disrobe and turn the lights off was excruciating.
| hammock wrote:
| To play devil's advocate:
|
| People forget that drunk driving laws started as the result of
| activist campaigns from special interest groups only a few
| decades ago.
|
| It is itself a victimless crime; we have existing laws against
| reckless driving, causing accidents, vehicular manslaughter,
| etc.; and as this study shows there are plenty of common, less
| regulated (i.e. showing no signs of impairment yet blowing into a
| measurement device cannot get you nailed) driving conditions
| which are as bad or worse than drunk driving.
| ipsin wrote:
| It seems like a "victimless crime" in the same way that a hit
| and run is a victimless crime, as long as you get away with it.
|
| Someone has willfully chosen to make life more dangerous for
| everyone else. It's possible they won't be caught, but ignoring
| the act carries a real possibility of harm.
|
| There are people who would drive drunk every single day, if
| they could get away with it.
| hammock wrote:
| > hit and run is a victimless crime
|
| Not clear on your logic. A hit and run has a victim: whoever
| is the owner of the person or property you damaged.
|
| In contrast, a drunk driver who is not under excess influence
| of the alcohol in his system and who gets from point A to
| point B safely, has victimized no one.
| jjulius wrote:
| >In contrast, drunk driver who is not under excess
| influence of the alcohol in his system and who gets from
| point A to point B safely, has created no victims.
|
| And what of the drunk driver under excess influence who
| creates a victim?
| nyolfen wrote:
| presumably he is still subject to the laws that relate to
| creating a victim
| weaksauce wrote:
| The founder of madd in america thinks they went too far
| though.
|
| https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2002/aug/6/20020806-035.
| ..
|
| > Candy Lightner, MADD's founder, says she disassociated
| herself from the movement in 1985 because she believed the
| organization was headed in the wrong direction.
|
| > "It has become far more neo-prohibitionist than I had ever
| wanted or envisioned," said Mrs. Lightner, who founded MADD
| after her daughter was killed by a drunk driver. "I didn't
| start MADD to deal with alcohol. I started MADD to deal with
| the issue of drunk driving."
|
| > Several years after she left MADD, Mrs. Lightner briefly
| represented the American Beverage Institute in its fight
| against the 0.08 percent BAC law. She also lobbied Congress
| to enforce tougher penalties for drunk drivers.
|
| Maybe she took up that position after getting hired by the
| beverage industry or not I don't know but she did lose a
| child to a drunk driver. 0.08 is probably too strict as the
| consequences of that are really severe and as evidenced
| basically no more impairing than widely used daily
| antihistamines.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I would sooner drive after a couple beers with dinner than
| after taking Benadryl (diphenhydramine). That's not because
| I think alcohol is safe to drive on.
| 0xB31B1B wrote:
| Shooting a gun into a crowd and not hitting anyone is also a
| "victimless crime", that doesn't mean it isn't high risk
| behavior that should be discouraged. The reality is that the
| large majority of drunk drivers are chronic drunks and drunk
| driving rules are pretty effective at taking them off the road.
| hammock wrote:
| >the large majority of drunk drivers are chronic drunks and
| drunk driving rules are pretty effective at taking them off
| the road.
|
| That's a good point. Aren't you now arguing though that the
| vast majority of drinkers, who are not chronic drunks, be
| punished for the actions of a few?
| tom_ wrote:
| The vast majority of drinkers, and this includes many of
| the chronic drunks, aren't being punished at all by these
| rules! Because they don't drive after drinking.
| rngoea wrote:
| mikotodomo wrote:
| WTF, it's not a victimless crime. You have a much higher chance
| of getting in an accident and killing someone when you're
| drunk. Someone dies every 50 minutes in America from drunk
| driving accidents.
| weberer wrote:
| I can't imagine trying to drive for an hour after taking
| diphenhydramine. It usually knocks me out hard within 20 minutes.
| [deleted]
| Trouble_007 wrote:
| FYI: Antihistamines :
| https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Antihistamine
|
| Diphenhydramine : https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Diphenhydramine
| tyrfing wrote:
| 2nd gen antihistamines (Fexofenadine, Cetirizine, Loratidine) are
| definitely what you want for allergies. 1st gen like
| Benadryl/Diphenydramine have awful side effects. I highly
| recommend nasal sprays like Fluticasone as well, available OTC in
| the US these days and amazing stuff.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| Fluticasone changed my life. It's a wonder drug.
| amluto wrote:
| I would argue that, whatever "generation" it is, cetirizine
| does not deserve credit for being second generation. I know
| plenty of people with extremely obvious CNS effects from it. In
| contrast, loratadine seems innocuous.
| _moof wrote:
| Cetirizine is a "no go" for pilots. Fexofenadine and
| loratadine are OK to fly on though, as is fluticasone.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| Second that, cetirizine definitely feels more like clemastine
| or meclizine than a proper second gen "non sedating"
| antihistamine. And with hay fever AND an allergy to nuts,
| I've tried them all, haha.
| tyrfing wrote:
| For me, loratadine was ineffective, and I can't distinguish
| cetirizine and fexofenadine - both are maybe 50-60% effective
| with no notable side effects, and allergy season means extra
| fatigue no matter what. Cetirizine does have the shortest
| half life.
| imdvayn wrote:
| Unfortunately its justifiably classified as 2nd gen and IIRC
| studies show that it's generally more effective for hay
| fever. Personally, I've found that loratadine is pretty
| ineffective, especially after regular use.
| jostmey wrote:
| I found loratadine very effective but it takes time to
| work. At least a week
| imdvayn wrote:
| +1 to Fexofenadine (Allegra) and Fluticasone. Loratadine
| (Claritin) is too weak for my needs and Cetrazine (Zyrtec) has
| side effects are too similar to a stimulant for me.
| sjmm1989 wrote:
| Ironically, whilst having terrible hayfever... Not taking
| Antihistamines at all seems to have had the most profound
| effect on me between the gen 1 and 2 meds. If I didn't know any
| better, I would almost figure I was having some sort of rebound
| effect from taking them in the first place. Which is odd,
| because I have been diagnosed with having Allergic Sinusitis,
| which triggers an inflammatory asthma if not careful.
|
| I used 1st gen stuff like Chlorpheniramine and Diphenhydramine
| to start. Tried some second gen stuff not too long ago, and it
| worked pretty well too; but not as well just not taking any?
| It's weird. Meanwhile if I have an actual allergy attack, I
| keep Benadryl around for just in case. Because again, not
| taking any of these seems to just leave me without any
| allergies now? Or as bad at least. But Benadryl seems to still
| have some effect, where as I need a couple days of taking the
| 2nd gen stuff to actually get any effect; if any at all.
|
| All in all, I'm confused now as to which I should even take
| considering everything in how my reactions have been to it all.
| So I just don't take any unless things are real bad now. Which
| they usually aren't.
|
| Maybe I outgrew my allergies? I doubt it, cause I still sneeze
| around cats and stuff. heh.
| rhexs wrote:
| These are great. Europe has some even newer 2nd (or "3rd gen")
| antihistamines such as bilastine and rupatadine. They're
| apparently even more effective than what we have in the states.
|
| Would love to try them out, but unfortunately I don't think
| they're seeking FDA approval. Anyone abroad have any experience
| with these compared to loratadine/cetirizine?
| hammock wrote:
| > Fluticasone
|
| A corticosteroid, it has awful side effects as well
| dfsegoat wrote:
| Maybe. But I would say for me the benefits of not suffering
| "breakthrough" hayfever attacks far outweigh the side
| effects.
|
| Antihistamines are great - but the nasal corticosteroids are
| what really control my hayfever (1) when used consistently.
|
| 1 - Hayfever so bad that I used to have to get custom serum
| shots containing the local pollen profile, every 2 weeks as a
| kid. Had anaphylaxis twice.
| [deleted]
| mberning wrote:
| I didn't see it in the abstract but how are the alcohol and
| placebo administered? If they were ingested the participant
| surely knew they got alcohol or a placebo. And I assume that may
| have some impact on their performance aside from possibly being
| intoxicated. I suppose all 4 could be IV administered, but it
| doesn't sound like that.
| 988747 wrote:
| Well, you can give non-alcoholic beer to the subject telling
| them it is a real thing. Or make them a cocktail, such as
| Mojito, just a virgin one. Or the opposite: give them a soda
| secretly spiced with vodka. The possibilities are endless. But
| the problem is: people usually are familiar with how being
| drunk feels (and 0.1% BAC is pretty drunk), so it's almost
| impossible to hide the fact from them. So I guess "placebo
| group" is only with relation to drugs, not to alcohol.
| omarhaneef wrote:
| This is the context I was missing (brand names)
|
| https://www.drugs.com/ingredient/diphenhydramine.html
| jmalicki wrote:
| Yes, it's marketed as ZzzQuil an OTC sleeping aid! (as well as
| benadryl)
| stordoff wrote:
| Is 60mg a typical dose of fexofenadine? I'm only familiar with it
| as 180mg tablets (I was initially prescribed 180mg twice daily
| for dermatographic urticaria, and currently take 360mg twice
| daily).
| volkl48 wrote:
| 60mg is the dosage sold for "12hr". 180mg is the "24hr" dosage.
| jmalicki wrote:
| The article is extremely short, but comparing 2-4 OTC doses of
| diphenhydramine to a level of alcohol concentration above what
| constitutes a DUI in most places seems like an odd choice? Or is
| that just a matter of proof of concept, go for the big obvious
| demonstration first?
| runnerup wrote:
| 2 doses of diphenhydramine can have very noticeable and
| profound effects on many people, 50mg total isn't a light dose
| by any metric. That seems fine as a comparison to 0.1% BAC.
|
| But 60mg Fexofenadine makes no sense to me in comparison. It's
| usually 180mg in a single pill.
| sjmm1989 wrote:
| Hate to break it to you, but 50mg is pretty much a common
| dosage for most people taking Diphen. At least where I lived
| over the past few decades... This is mostly due to the effect
| of 'if 1 pill is almost enough to do the job, then 2 pills
| should be adequate'. You see this a lot with people who take
| Tylenol and/or Advil. Tylenol overdoses are more common
| because of the frequency of acetaminophens use in other
| medications in combination with people taking Tylenol not
| realizing they are doubling/tripling their doses.
|
| So having people end up driving on 50mg+ doses of the dryl is
| not uncommon in places like Canada. Pair it with a dose or
| two of pseudoephidrine hydrochloride as well, and you
| basically have a breath easy cocktail that _might_ put you to
| sleep, or _might_ keep you awake all night.
| pharrington wrote:
| The directions I'm looking at for a store brand diphenhydramine
| say to take 1-2 of the 25mg tablets as needed, so I'd expect
| that's the typical therapeutic dose.
| [deleted]
| lazide wrote:
| Having done that for awhile once? It basically is, and that is
| the typically OTC recommended dose.
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