[HN Gopher] Tobii Pro Glasses 3
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Tobii Pro Glasses 3
Author : punnerud
Score : 82 points
Date : 2022-04-30 11:42 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.tobiipro.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.tobiipro.com)
| hprotagonist wrote:
| If the gaze tracking resolution is reasonably decent, these
| really extend the utility of Tobii products for
| neuroscience/psych research (where i've used previous Tobii
| products before), but also really does open the door for things
| like gaze-driven HCI for people with very limited mobility. I've
| prototyped gaze-based T9 input and the like before, and it's
| probably doable.
| emptybits wrote:
| "8 IR illuminators per eye"
|
| Honest question: is there any reason to be concerned about such
| near and constant IR illumination directed at one's eyes?
| daniel_reetz wrote:
| Generally with near-infrared emitters, the main issue is tissue
| heating up. Of course this depends on the tissue, the specific
| wavelength(s), and the angular distribution of the emitter.
|
| OSRAM has an excellent datasheet about this, AN090 . If you're
| curious about how this kind of thing is safely engineered, have
| a look!
| daniel_reetz wrote:
| Also the reason for 8 emitters is to have lots of points to
| track, not to provide a huge amount of light.
| ta988 wrote:
| Old tracking systems I tried were really uncomfortable due to
| that and couldn't be used long. Hope these are better
| (disclaimer it was 10 years ago).
| [deleted]
| lizardactivist wrote:
| No, it's an insignificant increase over what your eyes already
| receive.
| andai wrote:
| Does that account for the fact that it's decoupled from
| visible light? Afaik the iris contracts in response to
| visible light, so here could get exposed to more IR
| proportionally. (OTOH either way in absolute terms the amount
| you get from sunlight is orders of magnitude more than you'd
| get from a few LEDs.)
| spyder wrote:
| It may even improve eye-sight in the short-term:
|
| https://www.newscientist.com/article/2298723-red-light-thera...
|
| I'm not sure about the energy and wavelength difference
| compared to the glasses. But even if it has a positive effect
| from short-term exposure, it may also have bad effect from too
| much exposure.
| aaaaaaaaaaab wrote:
| "The most common eye disease associated with near-infrared
| radiation is cataracts. Prolonged exposure to IR radiation
| causes a gradual but irreversible opacity of the lens. Other
| forms of damage to the eye from IR exposure include scotoma,
| which is a loss of vision due to the damage to the retina. Even
| low-level IR absorption can cause symptoms such as redness of
| the eye, swelling, or hemorrhaging."
|
| https://ehs.lbl.gov/resource/documents/radiation-protection/...
| hammock wrote:
| I guess it would be like looking up at one of those security
| cameras that are ringed with IR LEDs
| sklargh wrote:
| Has anyone tried to use these for a home flight simulator
| application? It seems like these or the pupil-labs equivalent
| could deeply improve immersion vs. TrackIR.
| lekevicius wrote:
| Those cameras inside lenses look unbelievably small. I didn't
| know "we have the technology" like that, feels spy movie
| territory.
| nerdponx wrote:
| Can't wait for these to be embedded in "smart" TVs for gaze
| tracking during ads.
| donkeyd wrote:
| TVs are massive, so they don't have to be this small and you
| can already buy TVs with built in cameras, since it can be
| used for video conferencing. Also, this type of tech can
| already be used to measure ad awareness in stores [0]. It's
| also starting to be implemented in cars, to check whether
| you're paying attention to the road while using 'autonomous'
| systems.
|
| So... This is not really a type of tech that will enable your
| fears, it already exists, there just doesn't seem a business
| model for applying it in TVs yet.
|
| 0: https://www.unravelresearch.com/en/blog/eye-tracking-in-
| adve...
| stavros wrote:
| Those tendrils are cameras?! What the hell?
| lekevicius wrote:
| In each lens, 2 are cameras (inner bottom), other 8 are IR
| illuminators.
| stavros wrote:
| Ah okay, that makes more sense, thank you.
| nrp wrote:
| Those are most likely modules using wafer level optics:
| https://ams.com/cmos-micro-camera-module
| lekevicius wrote:
| NanEyeC is 1mm by 1mm, with 320 x 320 resolution.
| Unbelievable. And slightly worrying: it totally breaks my
| expectation of what can contain a camera.
| tiahura wrote:
| I just wish they'd improve their eye bar to the point where it
| can be used as a viable alternative to a mouse.
|
| For those of us with RSI's like mouse-shoulder it would be a
| godsend.
| Torkel wrote:
| HDMI out? Makes me curious what tech they have on the glasses vs
| in the dongle/box... maybe it's convenient to use hdmi cable's
| twisted pairs to just take the csi/mipi from the cameras straight
| out and then do processing externally?
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Darn it; _amazing_ looking technology and then "contact sales".
| Oh well.
| throwanem wrote:
| Maybe somebody will put together a group buy.
| Readywater wrote:
| Tobii is pretty intense about this stuff, esp re licensing.
| Their gaming stuff can't be used for research, for example.
| It's a similar vibe to eInk.
| light_hue_1 wrote:
| Tobii can say whatever it wants. The license you accept
| only applies to their software, not to their hardware. You
| own that. You can use their gaming devices to do research
| all you want, as long as you use your own software with
| them.
| oori wrote:
| Proof please?!
|
| "The license you accept only applies to their software,
| not to their hardware."
|
| As far as I know, their EULA has three groups: gamers,
| commercial, research. You can buy a 3000EUR research
| license that simply allows you to collect the eye
| tracking data on the basic 250EUR devices...
| throwanem wrote:
| Tobii can _sue_ whoever they want, too. You sure you can
| afford better representation than theirs? If they 're as
| assertive about their license terms as it sounds like
| they are, I'd think hard about it first, I suppose.
| emteycz wrote:
| How do you do that with a device with locked
| bootloader/firmware? Is alternative firmware even
| available? I don't think so...
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| If you have to ask you can't afford it :)
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Yeah, my reaction was half bemoaning the lack of information,
| and half bemoaning what that implied.
| ex_nihil wrote:
| Does anyone know of a good example of eye-tracking being used for
| HCI where it surpasses keyboard/mouse? When searching for it most
| of the use seems to be in foveated rendering, research, marketing
| or accessibility.
| jdmoreira wrote:
| If these glasses can be used to control a mouse pointer in an
| effective way, I'm interested!
| hatware wrote:
| Unfortunately it's not that accurate. At least not without
| adjusting UI scaling.
| Kiro wrote:
| Games.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| I once gave Marvin Minsky a headache by showing a video tape of
| bright blinking PostScript graphics! I apologized, and we had a
| nice conversation about how eye tracking interfaces tend to do
| the same thing.
|
| https://web.media.mit.edu/~minsky/papers/Telepresence.html
|
| >Telepresence, by Marvin Minsky, Omni Magazine, June 1980
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyU79dFbH0Q
|
| >Zero Bandwidth Video: SCAN 1981. Zero Bandwidth Video: SCAN is
| an excerpt from demos of Architecture Machine Group project
| circa 1980 an interactive portrait of Raleigh Perkins with
| various input devices to manipulate the image. The viewer
| pushes a joystick to make her look in various directions,
| Nicholas Negroponte demonstrates linking the portrait to an eye
| tracking device. SCAN was exhibited at SIGGRAPH Art Show 1989.
|
| https://www.researchgate.net/publication/352739339_The_Incom...
|
| >The Incomplete Tyranny of Dynamic Stimuli: Gaze Similarity
| Predicts Response Similarity in Screen-Captured Instructional
| Videos
|
| >Although eye tracking has been used extensively to assess
| cognitions for static stimuli, recent research suggests that
| the link between gaze and cognition may be more tenuous for
| dynamic stimuli such as videos. Part of the difficulty in
| convincingly linking gaze with cognition is that in dynamic
| stimuli, gaze position is strongly influenced by exogenous cues
| such as object motion. However, tests of the gaze-cognition
| link in dynamic stimuli have been done on only a limited range
| of stimuli often characterized by highly organized motion.
| Also, analyses of cognitive contrasts between participants have
| been mostly been limited to categorical contrasts among small
| numbers of participants that may have limited the power to
| observe more subtle influences. We, therefore, tested for
| cognitive influences on gaze for screen-captured instructional
| videos, the contents of which participants were tested on.
| Between-participant scanpath similarity predicted between-
| participant similarity in responses on test questions, but with
| imperfect consistency across videos. We also observed that
| basic gaze parameters and measures of attention to centers of
| interest only inconsistently predicted learning, and that
| correlations between gaze and centers of interest defined by
| other-participant gaze and cursor movement did not predict
| learning. It, therefore, appears that the search for eye
| movement indices of cognition during dynamic naturalistic
| stimuli may be fruitful, but we also agree that the tyranny of
| dynamic stimuli is real, and that links between eye movements
| and cognition are highly dependent on task and stimulus
| properties.
| punnerud wrote:
| Something like this? Fast, but still a way to go before it's
| faster. [Hands-Free Coding: How I develop software using
| dictation and eye-tracking]
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24846887
|
| "I'd say I probably work at about 50% of my normal speed*. Now,
| this doesn't mean that I produce 50% of the results; it just
| means I need to prioritize a little more ruthlessly."
| hatware wrote:
| The USB Tobii Eye tracker is pretty sweet. It seems gimmicky at
| first, but a number of games have great support for it.
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| Out of curiosity, what is the gaming use case for eyetracking?
| I'm in research, and we use Tobii eyetracking during
| experiments, but I never thought about its use in games.
| hatware wrote:
| In flight simulators or driving games, it gives more range of
| motion by tracking head position and gaze. The really good
| implementations allow you to do more head tracking, or more
| eye tracking, depending on your preference. FS2020 needed
| some tweaking in this department, when I turned my head to
| look behind me IRL, the game camera would spin like mad. The
| responsiveness is pretty shocking to say the least.
|
| In shooters, there's an added "snap to aim" feature that is
| borderline cheating, it snaps your aim to where you may be
| looking. I've only seen it in non-competitive and first
| person games though. For competitive shooters, the tracking
| can be very useful to know you weren't looking in the right
| place at the right time, if you care about that stuff. There
| is an overlay you can enable which shows where your gaze is
| calculated in real time.
|
| In third person games, gaze can be used to reveal information
| in the HUD (hide HUD elements unless I look at them) and to
| aim throwable objects. More gimmicky in these cases, but
| simply having more field of view without having to move your
| mouse/arm is useful IMO.
| jonnycomputer wrote:
| Oh, wow, cool. Thanks.
| Absor wrote:
| It is very uncomfortable looking at these from the front as the
| cameras and illuminators look like spikes aiming for the eyes.
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Not quite as uncomfortable as the earlier Clockwork Orange
| glasses.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSQApGLbgNg
| lizardactivist wrote:
| JohnJamesRambo wrote:
| All I could imagine is ad companies looking at these and
| envisioning their Clockwork Orange dream of eyes with the lids
| held open.
| azinman2 wrote:
| Probably less useful than a google search, which shows
| explicit intent. If you followed me around all day long you'd
| have an overwhelming amount of noise.
| Kiro wrote:
| Not really. You probably suffer from aichmophobia.
| goldenkey wrote:
| I don't suffer from that ailment and agree with OP. Looks
| like a bunch of needles all an incident away from going
| straight through my eyeball.
| zestyping wrote:
| They could have fixed this easily by running all the wires
| horizontally. Seems like a surprising oversight. First
| impressions matter.
| brifsttar wrote:
| For more affordable and open-source alternatives, you might be
| interested in Pupil Labs[0].
|
| [0]: https://pupil-labs.com/
| GordonS wrote:
| EUR5,900?
|
| How much are the Tobii glasses if Pupil Labs' are almost 6
| thousand Euro?!
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| These aren't consumer products. They're specialized business
| products aimed at market researchers. In that context,
| EUR5,900 doesn't seem expensive at all to me, and I'd expect
| the Tobii glasses to be more.
| etothepii wrote:
| The tobii monitor mounted eye tracker that delivers almost
| all the value required for SWE is only a few hundred
| dollars.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Which proves my point exactly. The Tobii Eye Tracker V is
| a consumer-oriented product marketed to gamers. The
| market-research-oriented use cases that one would need
| for a "walking around pair of eye-tracking glasses" are
| totally different, and they're priced accordingly.
| marvin wrote:
| What does SWE mean in this context?
| singularity2001 wrote:
| I want the opposite: Google Glasses without any sensors but with
| iPhone adapter, so I can read the subtitles of real time chinese
| conversations.
| cududa wrote:
| This is a product for HCI/ UX researchers, not consumers
| freedomben wrote:
| Anyone know the status of Google Glass for consumers? Last I
| heard they nixed the consumer version because of poor market
| reception (lots of people started calling users "glassholes"
| and banning them from bathrooms and stuff because they never
| knew when they were recording), but surely at some point
| they'll be cheaper and more available?
| chaostheory wrote:
| I wonder what happens when more mainstream VR headsets get eye
| tracking?
| Duralias wrote:
| More immersive social VR. Personally really looking forward to
| this because "the eyes are a mirror to the soul" is very
| apparent when you see well made avatars with eye tracking.
|
| The possibility of dynamic foveated rendering, which is
| probably how Valve could realistically use an APU in their
| rumored Deckard.
|
| And of course intrusive ads and data collection.
|
| Morbidly curious to see how long it takes before platforms
| start using ML algorithms to create personalized ads that are
| tailored to make you look at them for as long as possible, one
| would hope such a thing would kill a platform.
| wly_cdgr wrote:
| Nobody needs to know how much time I spend looking at photos of
| sandwiches
| hammock wrote:
| Anyone have an idea of how much these are, and the software?
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